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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from how Stuff works dot Com. You've heard the rumors before,

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Speaker 1: perhaps and whispers written between the lines of the textbooks. Conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: paranormal events, all those things that disappear from the official explanations.

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Speaker 1: Tune in and learn more of this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know in this video podcast from how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. That there is Charles W. Chuck Bryant,

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Speaker 1: but that they're down the road a piece, etcetera. I

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Speaker 1: am down the road, apiece. I'm sure you are. I wish.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever committed a crime? Charles? I've never been

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Speaker 1: caught or convicted of committing a crime, Josh, But you have.

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Speaker 1: I've never been convicted of the crime. Talk is big

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Speaker 1: on c y a crime. Everyone's made a right on

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Speaker 1: red when they shouldn't have. Sure have committed a crime.

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Speaker 1: Everyone who listens to this podcast knows that I started

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Speaker 1: out early as a thief and stopped shortly afterward. Remember

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Speaker 1: the firecrackers in the pac Man shirt? Ye yes, um,

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Speaker 1: If you committed crime. You've got your own thing going on, right, sure,

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Speaker 1: But what happens if you witness a crime. You're just

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Speaker 1: some innacent person and you see somebody shoot somebody else

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Speaker 1: in the head. The blood comes spurting out and like

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Speaker 1: a big arc and the eyes go glaze and you're

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Speaker 1: just standing there watching this and you get a good

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Speaker 1: look at the person who did it. What do you do?

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Speaker 1: You get the heck out of there. You call a cop. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good first step. And what what may end

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Speaker 1: up happening? And I think this is where you're going,

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Speaker 1: is you may end up a witness that has to

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Speaker 1: go to court and testify against this bad, bad person.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Uh, part of our constitution actually, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's in the constitution, but let's say

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Speaker 1: a general protection that any individual has is protection against

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Speaker 1: being coerced into testifying against somebody. It's an individual's right

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Speaker 1: to choose whether or not you want to testify, and um,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people choose not to. Yeah, very much.

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Speaker 1: It's a big problem. Actually, Uh, there there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who do witness crimes that you say, I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing it. I'm not going to get involved exactly.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons why is because there is a

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Speaker 1: longstanding tradition of witnesses being murdered when they testify or

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Speaker 1: agree to testify, especially in circumstances where you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: gangs or drugs or racketeering crime. Yeah, but some of

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Speaker 1: the heavy hitters. Sure. I mean, if you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: up river for twenty years and you've already killed a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people, what's one more witness? Exactly? Right? Um. So,

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Speaker 1: the the US federal government and actually some other countries

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Speaker 1: have this as well. I looked into that, did you

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Speaker 1: when you come up with well, we'll get to that later. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they have something called the Witness Protection Program, commonly thought

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Speaker 1: to be called the witness Relocation Program. That's kind of

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Speaker 1: an aspect of the larger program, right exactly. So let's

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the nineteen sixties. Okay. So we're

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Speaker 1: the guys that are dressed funny in nineteen sixty exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I haven't figured out yet if people can see us,

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Speaker 1: can't see us, or just ignoring us. I think we're observing. Okay, Um, so, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: it's the nineteen sixties. John F. Kennedy's father, Joseph has

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Speaker 1: just stolen the presidential election for him. Uh, and he's

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Speaker 1: put his brother Bobby in his attorney general. They have

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Speaker 1: turned on the very mafia that helped get them New York,

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Speaker 1: I think, Illinois, uh, some key states in the presidential election. Now,

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Speaker 1: up to this point, there was no mafia. There was

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Speaker 1: an unrecognized entity. It existed, but as far as the

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Speaker 1: federal government, including and especially Jayer Hoover, it wasn't real.

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Speaker 1: Organized crime in the United States wasn't real, and there

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Speaker 1: certainly wasn't a mafia. Well, Bobby Kennedy comes in, is like,

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Speaker 1: there is a mafia number one and number two, we're

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Speaker 1: going after him. Um. And so the Kennedy administration goes

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Speaker 1: after organized crime. They they they very famously started interviewing

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Speaker 1: crime bosses, some of whom said that they were patriotic

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Speaker 1: Americans because they pay their taxes, that kind of thing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And the mafia becomes part of the collective consciousness of

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Speaker 1: the United States. Right by nineteen seventy uh, there was

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Speaker 1: actual real strides made in combating organized crime, one of

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Speaker 1: which was the Organized Crime Act of nineteen seventy Organized

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Speaker 1: Crime Control Act, thank you chuck, just to be specific,

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Speaker 1: which was introduced by who Arkansas Senator John McClellan in nine. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he had an aid who actually drafted the legislation forum

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Speaker 1: That would be g. Robert Blakely. And it was a

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Speaker 1: large bill. So what he did, and like many bills,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things kind of snuck in. There're

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Speaker 1: not snuck in there, but inserted. He uh inserted a

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Speaker 1: little thing about witness protection for the first time officially

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Speaker 1: thanks to a guy named Gerald Schuer who created the

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Speaker 1: witness protection program. He was a U S attorney, had

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Speaker 1: the ear of Blakely. Yeah, and he was a U

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Speaker 1: S attorney under Bobby Kennedy. So in this provision in

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Speaker 1: nineteen or in this Act of nineteen seventy, there's a

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Speaker 1: provision that says the Attorney General can basically allow the

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Speaker 1: federal government, I guess the Marshall services named in it

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Speaker 1: to protect any witness by any means they need to.

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Speaker 1: So there you go. That's pretty wide latitude. It was

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Speaker 1: revised in nineteen eighty four to include family members as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of eight four, right, and

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Speaker 1: it's been going ever since then. Better known as van

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Speaker 1: Halen nineteen eighty four. That's the alternate named alternate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: um man, you just made me want to do the robot, didn't.

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Speaker 1: Um So, Chuck. We've got the Witness Protection Program. Everybody

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Speaker 1: knows about it. It's it's been um part of popular

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Speaker 1: culture since its inception. Movies, especially right, um the al

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Speaker 1: and All the movie Betsy's Wedding My Blue Heaven. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of your favorites. Right, I love that movie. I

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Speaker 1: know you don't like it. I it's not that I

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Speaker 1: didn't like it. I didn't like Steve Martin. I didn't

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Speaker 1: buy his character. Not you weren't supposed to buy his

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Speaker 1: Martin doing a Mafio. So that in and of itself

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Speaker 1: is comedy. That makes me a schmuck. Not necessarily. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: in title Loui's own opinion here, a's stuff. You should know.

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Speaker 1: Our motto is to each his own. Sure, so you're fine, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: But there was another little movie that's arguably the greatest

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Speaker 1: gangster movie ever made, possibly better than The Godfather. That's

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Speaker 1: a tough one, it is, but the fact that it's

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Speaker 1: even competing with the Godfather, it's a lot about it.

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Speaker 1: That movie is a little Martin Scorsese movie called Goodfellas,

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Speaker 1: based on real life events, based on a book called

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Speaker 1: Wise Guys by Nicholas Plague yep, and based on a

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Speaker 1: famous rat snitch called Henry Hill, who ray Leota played

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Speaker 1: in the film. Yeah, and Henry Hill was a real dude,

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Speaker 1: and he really did uh snitch on the um? What

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Speaker 1: was the what was the family? The Luchese crime family?

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Speaker 1: And he took the stand and and was in the

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Speaker 1: witness protection program for a while. He's clearly not anymore

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Speaker 1: because he's on Howard Stern all the time. Uh No,

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Speaker 1: but he was in the witness protection program. He was

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Speaker 1: a problem child from what I understand. And ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: may I announce Mr Charles W. Bryant doing a dramatic

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Speaker 1: reading from the movie Goodfellas. Silence please. We ran everything.

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Speaker 1: We paid off cops, we paid off lawyers, we paid

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Speaker 1: off judges. Everybody had their hands out. Everything was for

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Speaker 1: the taking. And now it's all over. That's the hardest part.

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Speaker 1: Today everything is different. There's no action. I have to

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Speaker 1: wait around like everybody else. Can't even get decent food.

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Speaker 1: After I got here, I ordered spaghetti with marinara sauce,

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Speaker 1: and I got egg noodles with ketchup. I'm an average nobody.

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Speaker 1: I get to live the rest of my life like

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Speaker 1: a schnook. Thank you, Charles. That is the last scene

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Speaker 1: from Good Fellows when Raino does goes out to get

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Speaker 1: the paper. Story imagines Joe PESSI just shooting up such

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Speaker 1: a classic. So you can tell from that passage brilliant

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Speaker 1: by the way, buddy, thank you. You can tell by

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Speaker 1: that passage that UM witness protection is not a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun necessarily, especially if you are a high flying

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Speaker 1: mafios So you have to go become some regular Joe

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Speaker 1: and Tempi. Yeah, absolutely right, Um chuck, I'm about to

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Speaker 1: blow your mind. My man, I've been waiting on this.

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Speaker 1: You're ready. My Blue Heaven also based on Henry Hill.

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Speaker 1: Was it really? Do you want to know why? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Nicholas Pelegy married one Nora Efron the screen. No,

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Speaker 1: I kid you not. I went back and cross references. Yes,

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Speaker 1: those two got married in Ron who wrote My Blue Heaven.

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Speaker 1: Both movies were based upon joint interviews they conducted with

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Speaker 1: Henry Hill. No kidding, I kid you not? Did she right?

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Speaker 1: My Blue Heaven h huh did not know that? Wow? Yep,

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Speaker 1: So there you go. There's a cocktail party tidbit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good. Didn't I know they were married? Are they

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Speaker 1: still married? Yeah? As far as or do you have

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Speaker 1: a rubbed out? Not yet, but she doesn't know too much.

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Speaker 1: By this time, he's got some concrete boots with her

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Speaker 1: name on him. Alright, So, Chuck, let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: actual witness Relocation program, which in the industry is called

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Speaker 1: whit SEC. Yes, officially took hold in nineteen seventy. Since then,

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Speaker 1: hush your mouth, there have been more than witnesses and

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Speaker 1: family members have entered this program and been protected and

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Speaker 1: relocated by the U. S. Marshals. Right, and by family

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Speaker 1: Chuck means by marriage or blood, not by you know, crime, family, right,

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Speaker 1: right of course, like hide my wife and kids along

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Speaker 1: with me? Right? Yeah? Okay? So um, who's eligible? Chuck? Well,

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Speaker 1: you have to apply, and the ultimately the application, you know, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: the the Attorney General gives the stamp of approval, but

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Speaker 1: they take certain things into account, like, uh, what you're

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Speaker 1: going to testify against, right, it's gotta be big, sure,

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Speaker 1: and probably there also can't be any other witnesses that

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Speaker 1: have the same information as you that don't need to

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Speaker 1: be because it costs some money. So I got the

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Speaker 1: idea that they want to try to avoid it if possible.

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Speaker 1: But if if you have the information and you're guaranteed

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Speaker 1: to show up and testify, and you definitely are going

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Speaker 1: to need protection because of this testimony, then there's a

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Speaker 1: good chance that you might be accepted. Usually it covers

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Speaker 1: people who have information big time about organized crime, racketeering, UM,

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Speaker 1: major drug offenses, UM, terrorist activities. Yeah, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a new on the scene. That is new and also

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Speaker 1: fairly new on the scene are people who are members

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Speaker 1: of gangs that have information about gang members, big ones.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them are are fit that mold these days. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: prosecutor trying a case has a witness puts in an

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Speaker 1: application on his or her behalf to the Justice Department.

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Speaker 1: They have a special bureau called the Office of Enforcement Operations,

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Speaker 1: right uh, and they get with the Federal Marshal Service

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Speaker 1: and basically all these agencies come together to interview the person.

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Speaker 1: They create a dossier on the potential witness. I love

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Speaker 1: that word, by the way, thank you. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that they come up with, is what kind

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Speaker 1: of a threat that person will pose to his or

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Speaker 1: her new community that I never thought about a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, Well, you clearly haven't seen my blue heaven

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Speaker 1: then a lot of times, Um, these people are criminals themselves.

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Speaker 1: And you know, just because the government's moving you doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you're a reformed person. True, although we should say

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Speaker 1: there's a recipativism rate of sevent in the witness relocation program. Right,

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Speaker 1: if you are we're a criminal and you are turning

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Speaker 1: state's evidence, you're protected. There's a seventeen percent chance that

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Speaker 1: you will go on to commit a crime while under protection.

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Speaker 1: It is a bone head, word, isn't it? Uh? Compared

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Speaker 1: to uh, paroled cons, that's not too bad considering that,

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Speaker 1: uh it's yes, there's a forty percent chance that will

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Speaker 1: go on to commit another crime while on parole or

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Speaker 1: off parole. But sure, right, um, so it's not too shabby.

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Speaker 1: And so far ten thousand I believe more than ten

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Speaker 1: thousand criminals have been convicted from witness testimony from witnesses

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Speaker 1: in the witness Relocation program. So it's chance success rate

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Speaker 1: of conviction. When when they're using someone who's turning state's evidence,

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Speaker 1: which is why it's going on still and why it

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Speaker 1: has such a spectacular budget. Apparently this year or in

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Speaker 1: two eight, they had a thirty eight million dollar budget

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Speaker 1: the Marshall's office did just for witness relocation. Don't you

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Speaker 1: get sixty grand a year? Yeah, let's talk about that, chuck.

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Speaker 1: So let's say that you've been enrolled in the program,

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Speaker 1: You've been accepted. Uh, what happens is you get a

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Speaker 1: T shirt says witness Protected person. You remember that Simpsons

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Speaker 1: where they go in the witness relocation program? Yes? I do. Yeah? Um,

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Speaker 1: and did you see that onion article? I sent you

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Speaker 1: a witness protection parade. FBI cancels annual Witness Protection Parade.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that was good. Um. So you've been enrolled in

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Speaker 1: the program, you moved out to Tempe, and you are

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Speaker 1: living a new life, right, Yes, you're no longer living

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Speaker 1: a life of crime. So you were a criminal, or

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Speaker 1: so you were a normal person. You don't have your

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Speaker 1: job any longer. No, you gotta get any job to

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Speaker 1: get to this point. To get to Tempe from say Philly,

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Speaker 1: there are some things you had to do first. Detroit, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right to get for them. Detroit to tempt you,

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Speaker 1: there were some things you had to do. First. Number one,

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Speaker 1: if you have outstanding debts, you gotta pay them first. Yeah. See,

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Speaker 1: this is something I never would have thought of. No,

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Speaker 1: I would think maybe they would just kind of settle

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Speaker 1: those because what if you can't pay your debts. I

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Speaker 1: imagine that if you have good enough information, they'd pay

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Speaker 1: them for you. But I think that part of the

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Speaker 1: program is they want you to do that if you can.

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Speaker 1: If you and they, I imagine wouldn't know whether you

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Speaker 1: have the money or not. Um, But yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: to pay your outstanding debts. Um, they will change your name.

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Speaker 1: You get to pick it, though, do you get to

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Speaker 1: pic which surprised me. They suggest that you keep the

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Speaker 1: same initials and or the same first name. That surprised

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Speaker 1: me too. Well, think about it. I mean, if somebody's like, hey, Johnny,

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Speaker 1: and you look and that was your old name, but

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Speaker 1: your new name, you know your new names, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to do that. Yeah, but it also makes it

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Speaker 1: easier to find once they put out this alert that hey,

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Speaker 1: they're probably gonna have the same initials and maybe the

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Speaker 1: first name. But who wants to go to Tempe? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good. Point. All right, so that they are you

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Speaker 1: have to clear your debt, they change your name, you

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Speaker 1: get all sorts of new records, new birth certificate, new

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Speaker 1: Social Security card and all this is handled on the

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Speaker 1: down though. But there are records of you changing your name,

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Speaker 1: changing your social Security number, but it's all sealed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean apparently happens just like a regular name change,

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Speaker 1: but they seal it off instead of allowing it's it's

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Speaker 1: not public record. Names runer. Once you get to Tempe,

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Speaker 1: you are um given housing or they help you find housing.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a temporary thing at first while that

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Speaker 1: they just want to get you taken care of immediately,

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Speaker 1: and then later on they will help you out with

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Speaker 1: your ultimate like living after life scenario um and to

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Speaker 1: help you live out your ultimate life scenario. How much

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Speaker 1: do they get a year, did you say, Chuck? Sixty thousand?

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Speaker 1: There called substance payments are on average sixty thousand per year.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't see in the article that they ran

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Speaker 1: out over. Yeah. I couldn't determine whether or not. Once

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Speaker 1: you get your job, I didn't know if that was

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Speaker 1: to tide you over until you got a stable career,

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Speaker 1: or if that was for life. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: don't know either, um, which one could argue, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure many critics have that basically, this is the government

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Speaker 1: paying for testimony. Yeah sure, I never thought about that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you have to try to get a job, or

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Speaker 1: you can be dropped. You can't be dropped, or you

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Speaker 1: they can stop giving you the subsistence payments. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's what happens. But you can go on to

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Speaker 1: welfare if you want, right, But they tried. The marshals

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Speaker 1: are responsible for I think they said they have to

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Speaker 1: give you one job opportunity. They have to bring you

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Speaker 1: one job opportunity. Alright, So Chuck, like you said, they

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Speaker 1: get you out of Detroit to Tempe as fast as

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Speaker 1: they can. They get you whatever, temporary housing until you

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Speaker 1: can find real housing. You're getting sixt k a year. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to find a job. But sometimes trials

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Speaker 1: drag out for a while. What do they do, I mean,

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Speaker 1: do they just leave you alone? What happens when it

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Speaker 1: comes time to go to trial? This is the most

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Speaker 1: dangerous part. Kind of like stealing a nuclear weapon. The

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Speaker 1: easiest time to steal one is when it's in transports.

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Speaker 1: Same with protective witness, protected witness. You've got twenty four

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Speaker 1: hour protective custody like around the area of the trial

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Speaker 1: to and from the trial. Clearly, and they use all

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Speaker 1: kinds of little tricky ways to make sure that you

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Speaker 1: stay alive. Right. Gerald sure wrote a book called wit sec.

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Speaker 1: Remember he's the founder of the witness Protection program. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he did, uh, And in it he talks about how

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Speaker 1: witnesses were delivered by fishing, boat, by mail truck, armored car. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and actually they often use armored cars as decoys. Well,

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Speaker 1: they bring a witness into in in a normal car

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Speaker 1: to the trial. He did that with famously with the

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Speaker 1: mafia member Joseph Barboza. Who don't you kind of have

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Speaker 1: to say it like that, but yeah, clearly, if your

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Speaker 1: name is Joseph Barboza, you're born to be in the mafia.

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Speaker 1: It occurred to me, right now, we're really treading on

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Speaker 1: thin nights. We might get greased by the FBI, the marshals,

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Speaker 1: or the mafia. So they cover you before trial, they

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Speaker 1: cover you after trial, especially during transport, and then after that.

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Speaker 1: All you have to do is if you remain in

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Speaker 1: the in the program, you can remain in it for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your life and you just check in

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Speaker 1: once a year, I believe is what it is, unless

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Speaker 1: you're moving that kind of thing. Yeah, and you you

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Speaker 1: definitely have to let them know when you're moving, so

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Speaker 1: it's not just that they move you to the dump

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Speaker 1: and ground of Tempe. There are some rules to follow,

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Speaker 1: and we should say that the Marshall's Service is quite

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Speaker 1: fond of pointing out that no one who's ever followed

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Speaker 1: the rules of the Witness Protection program has ever been killed. Yeah, Josh,

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Speaker 1: there are two rules actually, which is you can never

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Speaker 1: go back to where you were originally from and you

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Speaker 1: can't get in touch with like friends and family members

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Speaker 1: from your past life. And apparently, um, it's getting more

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Speaker 1: and more difficult to get people to follow the rules.

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Speaker 1: Which why is that, Well, apparently people are dumber than

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Speaker 1: they used to be, sort of what the what the

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Speaker 1: deal is from what I read is that, Um, the

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Speaker 1: nature of the crimes these days, with gang members and

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Speaker 1: the like, you're getting younger and younger people turning state's evidence.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like the old days of Sammy the Bowl.

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Speaker 1: Gravano is like in his fifties and he turned state's evidence.

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Speaker 1: What was the story you sent from Newsweek that one

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Speaker 1: girl seventeen seventeen, she was a member of I think

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Speaker 1: MS twelve, yes, which is an Hispanic gang um in Virginia.

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Speaker 1: I think it's all over the place. But she was

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Speaker 1: based in Virginia and she turned She apparently had a

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Speaker 1: very vivid memory that what what's that quote? That quote

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Speaker 1: is beautiful? Yes, her court appointed a lawyer said she

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Speaker 1: wasn't just a witness, she was like the rain Man

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Speaker 1: of witnesses. Yeah, she'd like to talk, so she spilled it.

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Speaker 1: Bro she did. Uh, and they relocated her successfully to

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Speaker 1: Kansas City. I think, yeah, they moved her to Kansas City.

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Speaker 1: She did a while. Uh did a good job for

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Speaker 1: a little while, and then I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: missed my friends. L O L let me get back

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Speaker 1: in touch with my friends and had them come out

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Speaker 1: and visit. Yeah. At one point her handler came out

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Speaker 1: to check on her. And apparently her handler was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be her stepfather, and she um hid her MS

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Speaker 1: twelve friends in the bathroom the weekly hotel. They had

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Speaker 1: put her up um while he visited. She was really

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Speaker 1: trying to stay alive, very she wasn't and you know what,

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Speaker 1: she didn't know. She didn't actually she yes, she got

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Speaker 1: homesick and lonely and went back to Virginia and what

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Speaker 1: two days later they found her floating in the river

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Speaker 1: I think some other some other person in the witness

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Speaker 1: relocation program. Uh. An official of it called her a

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Speaker 1: fatality waiting to happen. Yeah, they knew she wasn't in

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Speaker 1: for the long haul, right, So it is becoming increasingly

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Speaker 1: difficult to protect people. Um, but the as we said,

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Speaker 1: the marshals have a really good budget. They are what's

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Speaker 1: been called the gold standard of witness protection. If you

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Speaker 1: go down to the state and local level, if you're

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Speaker 1: a witness secret protection, you're probably going to die. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are states. A few states have their own programs

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Speaker 1: that good ones. I think usually up to about five

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand is about as much as a state throws

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Speaker 1: into witness relocation. And remember, you have to be testifying

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Speaker 1: in a federal trial to get witness protection from the U. S. Marshals.

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Speaker 1: If it's just a state or local trial, it's comer

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Speaker 1: at the sheriff's office exactly. That's you're you're getting that

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Speaker 1: level of protection from what I understand most um, most

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Speaker 1: of the protection you can expect will be to be

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Speaker 1: put up in a weekly motel for a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks until the trial, and a bus ticket out of town,

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Speaker 1: maybe a security deposit for down payment on an apartment

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Speaker 1: somewhere else. That's about it. And that's when Javier Bardem

384
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Speaker 1: shows up at your front door with a with a

385
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Speaker 1: cattle killer. Yeah, and as a result, a lot of

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Speaker 1: witnesses are murdered every year in state trial uh in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey apparently won't work with anyone who has a

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Speaker 1: criminal record. Yeah, So prosecutors are like, this guy can

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Speaker 1: shut the case, but he wants witness protection and you

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Speaker 1: won't give it to him because he sold crack before

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Speaker 1: something New Jersey. You know, I lived there there they

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Speaker 1: don't have or at least where I was, they didn't

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Speaker 1: have Um County sanctioned waste disposal. So it was literally

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Speaker 1: like the Sopranos. The trash guys would come and it

395
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: would be like lu Chonese trash service on the side

396
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Speaker 1: of the truck and these guys would get off the

397
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Speaker 1: truck and remove your trash. And I always remember thinking, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's an excellent front. So that's it for witness protection.

399
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Speaker 1: You can read the article on the site by typing

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Speaker 1: in Witness Protection in the handy search bar how stuff

401
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 1: works dot Com. We're sorry, we don't have a lot

402
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Speaker 1: more to present to you, but it's kind of a

403
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Speaker 1: hush hush program. Yeah, they do have other programs in

404
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Speaker 1: the rest of the world. We we briefly mentioned that,

405
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Speaker 1: but um, Canada has it, New Zealand, I think Jamaica

406
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Speaker 1: has one that's reportedly not very good, and um, what

407
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Speaker 1: else South Africa and Kenya, New Zealand, oddly China. You

408
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: already said New Zealand, Well it's even otter now. And uh,

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Speaker 1: Israel has one that starts slated to start next year.

410
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Speaker 1: So good luck Israel, Good luck with the witness Protection program. Um,

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Speaker 1: let's see. I guess since I already said handy search

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Speaker 1: bar and then chuck started up again, that means it's

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Speaker 1: time for or listener mayl I'm gonna call this a

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Speaker 1: listener mail from Jordan's. How's that for straightforward? All right? Josh,

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Speaker 1: you may remember recently we did a show on the

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Speaker 1: Clovis people. I do remember. You want to recap that briefly. Sure,

417
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Speaker 1: the cloths people were thought for a long time to

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Speaker 1: be the first inhabitants of the Americas that they came

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Speaker 1: around about twelve thousand years ago. Uh. And then a

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Speaker 1: discovery no, I'm sorry, ten thousand years ago. Then a

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Speaker 1: discovery of a site in Chile um On uncovered people

422
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: who had lived there twelve thousand years ago, completely turning

423
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: the field of anthropology on it. Tier So Jordan's is

424
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: an archaeologist in Kansas. He writes in he just graduated

425
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: from uk Go j Hawks, I'm a longtime listener. I

426
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: love your podcast about the First Americans. It was entertaining

427
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: and well researched. There was one mistake, however, I can't

428
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: let go. As an archaeologist working on the plains, Josh

429
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: mentioned there was no evidence of Clovis people on the

430
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: plains to explain how they traveled from the Bearing Land

431
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: Bridge all the way to Chile. Uh. Clovis sites are

432
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: found throughout the plains, but they're not as many of

433
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: them as in other regions of North America. The problem

434
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 1: is that and here's where he starts. Stand there it

435
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: out a little bit. The problem is that Paleo Indian

436
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: records on the plains are deeply buried due to massive

437
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 1: sedimentary deposition. Following the Clovis time period. Hey, uh, this

438
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: means that most of the known sites are in valleys

439
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: where streams have down cut and exposed the deep sediments

440
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: on the banks containing the closed deposits. So basically the

441
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: record could be several meters deep and only easily seen

442
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: in cut bank exposures. That leads to sampling bias when

443
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: compared to regions east and west of the Great Plains,

444
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: A minor quibble, I will admit. So uh, he wrote in,

445
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: and I wrote him back, and he wrote back again

446
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: and said, at uh, if you're interested for context, there

447
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: are a lot of pre Clovis investigations currently going on

448
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: all around North America. In fact, a major, a major

449
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: research area here at KU is searching for pre Clovis.

450
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of sites in North America

451
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,239
Speaker 1: that are convincing. Just uh, they're not Monte Verde. So

452
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: he said that the Bearing Land bridge. His theory is

453
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: that there were quite a few tricks across that by

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00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: different people's during various periods. And um, I just wrote

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00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: an article and evolutionary geneticists who found evidence of an

456
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: evolutionary bottleneck at the Bearing Land. So yeah, that supports

457
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: what we were talking about so or what the Clovis

458
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: police say. Jordan, good luck brother Jordan. Keep keep up

459
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: this Indiana Jones. Stuff. Yes, very thrilling life, that of

460
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: an archaeology and imagine. If you want to correct Chuck

461
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: and I, it's not that hard. You can send in

462
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: an email to Stuff. Hold on, you thought I was

463
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: going to give the email. I just didn't you. I

464
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: thought nope. First, I want to say, if you have

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Speaker 1: can find our page at www dot kiva dot org,

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Speaker 1: slash team slash stuff you should know. And again, if

471
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: you want to send us an email now, you can

472
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: send it to Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot

473
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

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00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,239
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Speaker 1: stuff works, check out our blogs on the house stuff

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