Speaker 1: This week on the Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Tour November
Speaker 1: eighth in The Factory in Saint Louis, Missouri, November ninth,
Speaker 1: Victory Theater in Evansville, Indiana, November eleventh, Hollywood Casino at
Speaker 1: Charlestown Races in Charlestown, West Virginia, and finally November twelfth, The.
Speaker 2: National in Richmond, Virginia.
Speaker 1: Get your tickets at the Craig Ferguson show dot com
Speaker 1: slash tour or don't get your tickets. I don't care,
Speaker 1: but I would like to see. My name is Craig Ferguson.
Speaker 1: The name of this podcast is joy. I talk to
Speaker 1: interest in people about what brings them happiness. Meet Kimball Musk.
Speaker 1: He's a chef, he's an entrepreneur. He's a member of
Speaker 1: the Musk family, and he really likes burning Man. And
Speaker 1: I'll listen to this.
Speaker 2: All right, Who want eggs? I won't, Okay, listen.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing about you cook and eggs. I'm a
Speaker 1: bit of an egg snob.
Speaker 3: No egg snobs until you've met Well here's the.
Speaker 2: Thing though, do you have your own chickens?
Speaker 3: Well, we actually did what we realized was that, which
Speaker 3: was really a raccoon feeding operation. Yeah, we'd go out
Speaker 3: into the backyard and see our chickens and uh and
Speaker 3: count them and be like, well, I guess we're three
Speaker 3: down today.
Speaker 2: But that's okay raccoons. We've fed at least three raccoons
Speaker 2: raccoons last night.
Speaker 1: So the thing is about I have chickens in Scotland,
Speaker 1: and there's if you keep them in a little house
Speaker 1: or next to your bad Chickens are.
Speaker 2: The dirtiest animal in the world. Do you know that.
Speaker 2: I am a big fan of their.
Speaker 3: Chickens are actually pretty nasty and they also.
Speaker 2: Did you have a Did you have a cock? Well?
Speaker 2: I know did right? Okay, we have a cockrell? Do
Speaker 2: you say? Can you say cock? I think you can
Speaker 2: take cock.
Speaker 1: I have to talk to you, but I mean I
Speaker 1: have to be a little more thoughtful about But I
Speaker 1: think what else you call it nowadays?
Speaker 2: Right? Well, it's a it's a it's a cock.
Speaker 1: In fact, the slang word for penis came from a cockrell.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's true. There we go anyway, that's not
Speaker 1: so your joy is food, that's what joy's food?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean not just food, but the fact that
Speaker 3: we're going to cook, to get cook together, eat together.
Speaker 3: It's like the most beautiful way to get to know people.
Speaker 3: And I've just been cooking since I was probably eleven
Speaker 3: years old. I had a mom who was wonderful, but
Speaker 3: she doesn't cook very well. Right, my mother couldn't cook.
Speaker 3: But she was also really cool about me going to
Speaker 3: the grocery store and getting whatever I want and cooking.
Speaker 1: You're doing that eleven years old, I'm going to go
Speaker 1: at the grocery store and yeah, I would go.
Speaker 2: She thought I was something's wrong here and go and
Speaker 2: I like smell the vegetables. Yeah, you know. Do you
Speaker 2: still do that? You have a team of people that
Speaker 2: go out by Oh I know.
Speaker 3: If I'm cooking, I like to go to either Whole
Speaker 3: Foods or the pubmer's market because the quality of the
Speaker 3: food is it's not its quality.
Speaker 2: You can get different varieties. Did you train as a chef? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's part of it, then, isn't it? You go
Speaker 2: and I didn't plan on.
Speaker 3: Doing a full professional cooking, but I ended up doing it.
Speaker 2: I started with a three month program. It was this
Speaker 2: basic technique at the French Culinary Institute WOW, which is
Speaker 2: it's no longer around. It was the top school at
Speaker 2: the time in Manhattan.
Speaker 3: And in fact, I learned how to make scrambled eggs
Speaker 3: from today.
Speaker 2: Exist what you're gonna make. You're gonna make some scrambled eggs.
Speaker 3: Scrambled eggs then from chef Alain Salter who's just passed away,
Speaker 3: and you know, they've got a team of fifty chefs.
Speaker 3: But scrambled eggs and the omelet, which is really the
Speaker 3: same recipe, right, that's on by the head of the school. Really,
Speaker 3: it's like that that's big of a bit. That's that
Speaker 3: big of a deal.
Speaker 1: Because my son could make scrin I can't really make
Speaker 1: scrambled eggs, but my youngest son, who's twelve, can make
Speaker 1: scrambled eggs. He's really good at him and they told
Speaker 1: him at school. I didn't know there is such an
Speaker 1: involved thing.
Speaker 2: It's actually very simple, but simple as the hardest, right, Okay.
Speaker 1: It's like cutting hair short. That's how you tell someone's
Speaker 1: a good barber cutting hair long. They can hide cutting hair.
Speaker 2: Short exactly, hide behind it exactly. Okay, So you're going
Speaker 2: to make scrambled eggs. Now, let me ask you this.
Speaker 1: If you're changed as a chef then, and I would
Speaker 1: have asked Tony burdein the same thing.
Speaker 3: Oh, by the way, he Tony Burdain was one of
Speaker 3: the reasons I became a chef. Really, Kitchen Confidential came
Speaker 3: out in the late nineties, and that's a great book.
Speaker 2: And I mean it's a great book.
Speaker 3: It really is one of the great Yeah, and it's
Speaker 3: of course about cooking, but it's great in every way.
Speaker 2: He was an extraordinary He was an extraordinary, extraordinary guy.
Speaker 3: Troubled guy obviously feel sad.
Speaker 2: I feel like chefs are the.
Speaker 1: Chefs to me, like I don't get that vibe from you,
Speaker 1: but maybe.
Speaker 3: A little bit because I think that a lot of
Speaker 3: people in general struggle. But if you go into the
Speaker 3: chef's world, it's a submarine culture. You are you are
Speaker 3: literally your mind is completely taken out for twelve hours.
Speaker 3: You show up at let's say eleven am, usually working
Speaker 3: the dinner shift, you'll be done at eleven pm.
Speaker 2: And if you have a troubled mind.
Speaker 3: Nothing better, yeah, because you are not thinking about anything.
Speaker 1: So do you think that that's why the troubled minds
Speaker 1: are called to it? Or troubled minds are caused by
Speaker 1: it chick egg scenario. In fact, what comes first the
Speaker 1: troubled mind or the or the desire to cook gives
Speaker 1: you a troubled mind because you're Not's why I think
Speaker 1: about twenty by day.
Speaker 2: This is what I was going to say. You're not fat,
Speaker 2: you're thin and thin a lot of sid north. Then
Speaker 2: like if I was a shift, I'd be like five hundreds.
Speaker 3: I thing if you are, if you're really cooking in
Speaker 3: the kitchen, it's like running a marathon every day.
Speaker 2: It's actually pretty hard to gain weights on your feet
Speaker 2: all the times. On your feet. I mean I used
Speaker 2: to I wear these little footbits and stuff.
Speaker 3: Twelve miles a day really in a kitchen and a
Speaker 3: kitchen and you're just moving two feet and it's twelve miles.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: It's it's a it's a lot of work. And if
Speaker 2: you're in the same with servers, because you have how
Speaker 2: many restaurants do you have? Now you have three to three?
Speaker 3: We have the Kitchen in Boulder, in Denver and Chicago,
Speaker 3: and to open one in.
Speaker 2: Austin that makes sense. Do you go in and do
Speaker 2: a shift in the kitchens? I don't do it anymore.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: The The thing about it is it's it requires fitness
Speaker 3: to do that kind of to do that kind of
Speaker 3: twelve hours of cooking. But then the other thing is
Speaker 3: it's it's a choreographed dance.
Speaker 2: It's a choreographed you're choreographed with you or other chefs.
Speaker 3: Right, So you might do the the sute where you
Speaker 3: might do the you know, the protein, you might chicken
Speaker 3: into the fish, but you don't you don't do the
Speaker 3: other parts of the dish, right, and you're you're serving
Speaker 3: sometimes twenty or thirty people at the same time, and
Speaker 3: so you're holding in your head when that chicken needs
Speaker 3: to be done, and you know that this plate needs
Speaker 3: to come from that.
Speaker 2: Just wander in and start cooking.
Speaker 3: There's such a thing as starging where you can come
Speaker 3: in and they'll give you a we we'll do that
Speaker 3: with other chefs from around the country. The kitchen is
Speaker 3: well known for its food, and the kitchen also started
Speaker 3: helped start the farm of the Table movement, and it's
Speaker 3: got this beautiful history and our and our chefs are talented,
Speaker 3: and so a lot of other restaurants will send their
Speaker 3: chefs to us, right, and they it's called starging where
Speaker 3: they actually come in and they try and help, but
Speaker 3: mostly they're just.
Speaker 2: Watching, right.
Speaker 3: And then you know they usually start for a whole week,
Speaker 3: and then you start on Monday, and by Friday or
Speaker 3: Saturday you might be able to get in and join.
Speaker 1: Because you have it. It's kind of a philosophy for you. No,
Speaker 1: it's not just about cooking, right, because you I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember when we talked before about this, you know,
Speaker 1: years ago, when we did that thing for for Gant.
Speaker 1: You know that that those couple of thinkers things. And
Speaker 1: when we we talk about food, like you were talking
Speaker 1: about the food deserts and and the areas where people
Speaker 1: don't get decent food and the coup you know, it's
Speaker 1: just it's it's it's not about economics.
Speaker 2: It's a culture, cultural challenge.
Speaker 3: So that's why we when we work at Big Green,
Speaker 3: we work to educate everyone from we used to work
Speaker 3: just in schools with kids and now we're the parents
Speaker 3: and work in their homes and we work in community gardens.
Speaker 3: But you just want to get the education level up
Speaker 3: so that when they think about what they want to eat,
Speaker 3: they include fresh vegetables. But the fresh vegebals are available,
Speaker 3: nothing is easily available in those communities. It's not like
Speaker 3: other than you know, seven eleven candy storage. It's terrible,
Speaker 3: but the but if you do want to find fresh vestals,
Speaker 3: you can't do it. It can always be made easier.
Speaker 3: But if culture you're not interested in it, I know.
Speaker 2: I think that's what you need. That's where the education
Speaker 2: comes in because it's also delicious.
Speaker 1: Well, that's why I think they'll when like, you go
Speaker 1: through an airport and you see like people in the
Speaker 1: thing it bugs me is when I see people in
Speaker 1: cargo shorts. I don't know why it's always cargo shorts,
Speaker 1: but they're always in cargo shorts walking through the airport,
Speaker 1: eating as they're walking to a plane. And I'm thinking
Speaker 1: there has to be a moment in life where you
Speaker 1: don't act. You could either stop and eat or I
Speaker 1: just don't believe everybody has the all the time.
Speaker 2: I think people grade Yeah, I do that.
Speaker 3: I Actually one of the things reasons I think I'm
Speaker 3: skinny is I don't graze right breakfast, lunch and dinner,
Speaker 3: decent proper breaks, launch dinner without trying too hard of
Speaker 3: what I should or should eat, and I maintain.
Speaker 2: My weight right. I think if you snack all day.
Speaker 3: It's actually you have no idea how many carries you're
Speaker 3: putting in you you could you could even feel bad
Speaker 3: like you haven't been eating enough, right, and actually you've
Speaker 3: taken it a ton of calories.
Speaker 1: Well I got that when I went and rehabed, when
Speaker 1: I was getting sober. The doctor that performed the things said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see a lot a lot of this and alcoholics
Speaker 1: of your type, he said, is that you're overweight and
Speaker 1: you've got you're a touch of malnutrition. You know that
Speaker 1: you're you know, I was like, what, Yeah, well you
Speaker 1: can't live on beer.
Speaker 3: And how is that a surprise?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a surprise there.
Speaker 1: It's so kind of weird because see, I always thought
Speaker 1: of when I grew up in Scotland, food was you know,
Speaker 1: it was terrible. The only good food around. I've been
Speaker 1: to Scotland. Now it's changing in the countryside, right, are
Speaker 1: usually great.
Speaker 2: I did not lack up point of one that was great.
Speaker 1: The thing is what happened with Scotland, particularly, I think
Speaker 1: in the Central Belt bomb North too, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of emigration from other.
Speaker 2: Cultures and other cultures.
Speaker 1: Food really makes a difference, like they would bring it
Speaker 1: like at first it was the Italians, then the Pakistani
Speaker 1: and Indian communities, and the Eastern European communities, the Polish
Speaker 1: people coming into Glasgow and stuff like that. It's amazing
Speaker 1: the difference that if other communities bring in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love I love that. In fact, London twenty
Speaker 3: years ago it was just English and then and then
Speaker 3: it really I don't know. I don't know how because
Speaker 3: Lone has always been called Papulitan, but somehow the more
Speaker 3: ethic communities sort of overflowed their feod culture into the
Speaker 3: rest of London. That's one of the best food cities
Speaker 3: in the world.
Speaker 1: Well see, I think that's just the thing short period
Speaker 1: of time, right, And I think that's the thing that
Speaker 1: the Tony Bourdain had on very well when he was
Speaker 1: doing that show about experiencing the food from other cultures
Speaker 1: and getting to know other cultures and making them less
Speaker 1: mysterious and less frightening. Really, it's hard to it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to hate someone you know, or to be scared
Speaker 1: of someone or make someone the boogie man. If you
Speaker 1: kind of know what the and you've sat down, like
Speaker 1: you said, like you sat down and you've literally broken
Speaker 1: bread with them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you break bread with people that are that are
Speaker 3: culturally or you know, I actually don't like this term
Speaker 3: diverse because to me, a diverse person is someone you
Speaker 3: sit down with and you you want to break bread
Speaker 3: so you can get to know them.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I'm not a Trump supporter, and I will go sit
Speaker 3: with Trump supporters. Yeah, that to me is like, okay,
Speaker 3: now I've got some serious Yeah, there's meat on that
Speaker 3: bone to to go figure.
Speaker 2: Out, you know what.
Speaker 1: I think that's quite an interesting take on it, because
Speaker 1: the the whole idea right now, you know, and I
Speaker 1: was talking about it, but this last name when I
Speaker 1: was doing the show which you very graciously came to,
Speaker 1: and there's not some off color remarks about your brother,
Speaker 1: which was nothing fun. But the idea of being in
Speaker 1: contact and interacting with people you don't agree with seems
Speaker 1: to be wildly out of fashion. And I think I
Speaker 1: think the idea that when you talk about food makes
Speaker 1: sense to me because if you can sit down with
Speaker 1: someone you politically have nothing in common with, but if
Speaker 1: you both are tasting something delicious, that at least you've
Speaker 1: got that in Coleman, and it's a starting off point,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean? Yeah, I agree, I think that when you.
Speaker 3: Sit down with someone and you you also have that
Speaker 3: kind of let's say minimum one hour maybe even longer
Speaker 3: with them it and then and there's certain things that
Speaker 3: come in. You might even agree on the food that
Speaker 3: you like, and you might want to suggest something to
Speaker 3: someone else.
Speaker 2: That's universal. Yeah, you're right, everybody does. Everybody does that.
Speaker 3: And I always have this joke with if there's someone
Speaker 3: really important I want to meet, I invite them to
Speaker 3: lunch for.
Speaker 1: Dinner and you actually you do that, you see, pass
Speaker 1: you off.
Speaker 2: You're making me exactly. He's actually that's why you're here.
Speaker 3: But I would, you know, and I'll go back to
Speaker 3: lunch or dinner with them, and you know, when it
Speaker 3: comes to you know, you can be a little insecure
Speaker 3: about inviting someone that is maybe a celebrity or policish
Speaker 3: a certain level. And then I, actually, everyone's got to eat. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so we're just gonna go eat. And so it takes
Speaker 3: the pressure off the meaning was a very good meeting
Speaker 3: in their office. That's like that's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and then it's it's like you're focusing on
Speaker 1: the thing, so take it. Let's go back to you
Speaker 1: early on when you were a kid. So this is
Speaker 1: in South Africa we're talking about.
Speaker 3: When you there's something I did, like talking people reaching
Speaker 3: out to have lunch and stuff.
Speaker 2: Was was in my high school in Canada.
Speaker 3: But the but I started cooking for my family from
Speaker 3: about age eleven, and you were the cook.
Speaker 2: Was the cook? Yeah, the only cook. Yeah, the you know,
Speaker 2: my family's pretty busy family. Yeah, they.
Speaker 3: They're they're they're all wonderful people, but just they just
Speaker 3: don't prioritize cooking.
Speaker 2: Right. I love food. I love the I love just
Speaker 2: even these scrambled eggs, which.
Speaker 1: Look amazing by the way you get you're getting a
Speaker 1: photograph of these grabbled eggs, right, but.
Speaker 2: They look a little different. And that's kind of the point.
Speaker 3: You know, you want it's never perfect also thing, but
Speaker 3: tremblings in particular are one of those things where you
Speaker 3: can go, I wonder how this is compared to the
Speaker 3: last one, and I wonder how tomorrows will be, and uh,
Speaker 3: it's just kind of this never ending experiment.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: You said something to me about food years ago which
Speaker 1: kind of stuck with me.
Speaker 2: It was a phrase you used. You said, food is
Speaker 2: the new Internet.
Speaker 1: You remember saying, yeah, right, yeah, do you still feel
Speaker 1: that way, that you still feel that there's a huge
Speaker 1: gross potential in I.
Speaker 3: Mean it actually has already happened, you know. That was
Speaker 3: that was I started sharing that message maybe ten.
Speaker 2: Years ago and now now.
Speaker 3: Back then, getting locally grown food in your fridge it
Speaker 3: was not a thing. I mean, you go to the
Speaker 3: farmer's mark. We have to be in a pretty wealthy
Speaker 3: community to do that.
Speaker 2: Right now, you want to get.
Speaker 3: Locally grown food using vertical farms. Every grocery store has it.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 1: Actually you I've noticed that even like the the the
Speaker 1: Borgli like rise of whole foods across America, at least
Speaker 1: you can get good food.
Speaker 2: You know that. We but even now.
Speaker 3: Like the Krogers and the King Supers and there Albertson's,
Speaker 3: they're all they're all doing it.
Speaker 1: I Craig Ferguson will be on the road once again
Speaker 1: this fall, bringing the Fancy Rascal Tour two your region.
Speaker 1: For tickets and full list of tour dates, go to
Speaker 1: my website, The Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour.
Speaker 2: Come and see me live or don't. I'm not your father?
Speaker 2: Where you go? I'm just gonna make sure that's the table.
Speaker 1: We all right, right, yeah, yeah, So when you're in
Speaker 1: the restaurant, do you sit down with the chef before
Speaker 1: you employ them? And it's that they have to like
Speaker 1: embrace the philosophy of what you're talking about, that kind
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 3: Well, we have a we have a team now maybe
Speaker 3: two hundred people. So why did you sit there? And
Speaker 3: I'll sit here, Chad Lileasley, this is lovely.
Speaker 1: Let me set a word picture of where we are
Speaker 1: because we're sitting in this beautiful house in Colorado, which
Speaker 1: is like that you can see the rocky mountains and
Speaker 1: the sky. Kimba's just going to get some from the kitchen,
Speaker 1: so I'm just going to talk to you aboun for
Speaker 1: a bit. And it's very a very nice swimming pool
Speaker 1: and the gentle sound of a leaf blow in the distance,
Speaker 1: which lets you know that you're in a rich guy neighborhood.
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, when I lived in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: the leaf scott blowing more I think than Mick Jagger
Speaker 1: did in the sixties.
Speaker 2: They were.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you'd heard that, but there's a
Speaker 1: lot of leaf blowers around.
Speaker 2: Is that little house down at the end or is
Speaker 2: that your properly? Of course, that's lovely. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: little old house from the sixties. That oh so nice. Here,
Speaker 2: this is delicious, by the way. Wow, look at it.
Speaker 1: Look at how beautiful that is. This is a different
Speaker 1: form of eggs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is soft scrambled soft scrambled, and it's
Speaker 3: a very similar recipe, classic French recipe. It's technique, not
Speaker 3: really that much to it, just salt.
Speaker 2: Pepper and a little bit better. So you just like
Speaker 2: take them out of the pan earlier. Is that what
Speaker 2: you do?
Speaker 3: You turned out of high heat and then you you
Speaker 3: really stir it until it kind of warms up, and
Speaker 3: then you drop the heat down and you finish it
Speaker 3: for like thirty seconds, and then you actually take it
Speaker 3: out of the pan and you put it into a
Speaker 3: bowl and.
Speaker 2: It will continue to cook for another thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: It's kind of scientific, isn't it is?
Speaker 3: I was the science and art, Like, you're definitely dealing
Speaker 3: with the science of it, but the art of it
Speaker 3: means that every time you do it it's a little different.
Speaker 1: I know, it's not pleasant to be listening to something
Speaker 1: to eat, but this is really good.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, So do you bake.
Speaker 1: I'm not the best baker because I have a theory
Speaker 1: that people either cook or baked.
Speaker 2: You don't do both.
Speaker 3: I will say that baking requires a personality to be
Speaker 3: just to be successful.
Speaker 2: That I don't have.
Speaker 3: What is that you call a scientific But it's more
Speaker 3: like chemistry, right, because you're dealing with subtle changes in in.
Speaker 2: The way the gluten works in the.
Speaker 3: Bread, or the how I yased my rise, and it's
Speaker 3: it's chemistry, and that you're get it. You get it
Speaker 3: exactly right, it's perfect, it's wonderful. You get it one
Speaker 3: percent off, and you know who made this?
Speaker 2: Really, this is a this is terrible. Sounds a bit
Speaker 2: like aviation to me, a plane, a little bit of
Speaker 2: Do you like a coffee?
Speaker 1: I'd love a couple. Actually, I think it's a coffee
Speaker 1: right there, the rabbit on it. Yeah, one of your
Speaker 1: guys made that. Thank you. You're going to get your coffee.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm sitting in the back yard, I'm eating these.
Speaker 1: I'm not cording the best grabbled eggs I've ever tasted
Speaker 1: in my life. I mean, really, I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like I could get into this. I could like be
Speaker 1: a rich guy and sit around eating scrambled eggs that
Speaker 1: are kind of soft. So I feel like I'm kind
Speaker 1: of made for this. You know, eating a meat pie
Speaker 1: in Scotland doesn't hold the same allure right now. Oh
Speaker 1: it has to be said for me. Kimmel's off doing
Speaker 1: something in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: But it has to be said for me, I enjoy.
Speaker 1: A meat pie in Scotland. Sometimes I'm going to test
Speaker 1: the coffee now that'll like. I know this probably sounds
Speaker 1: really gross, but here we go.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that golf is really good. It's good. Hey,
Speaker 2: your coffee is pretty good. What you got there? A
Speaker 2: little tree condiments, little treat? Yeah, I won't know.
Speaker 1: I well, cream fresh, cream fresh. Everybody is French for
Speaker 1: fresh green, I think, or I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's French.
Speaker 1: But it's from Vermont, which is French for green Mountain,
Speaker 1: which my wife is from Vermont, and my company is
Speaker 1: called Green Mountain West because we were in California when
Speaker 1: we started it. It's not quite the same as the
Speaker 1: musk companies. Well, you know, we make the occasional thing anyway.
Speaker 3: So this recipe is what I cook every morning. But
Speaker 3: you have this every day every morning?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my god. But once a year. I cook
Speaker 2: it at Bernie Man.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you because that is a
Speaker 1: source of joy for you, and it's completely If you
Speaker 1: don't mind me say so. I know that you'll explain
Speaker 1: it to me and I'll get it. But right now
Speaker 1: it seems completely out of character for you.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious what makes you think, well, what is
Speaker 3: the character of Bernie Man.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know anything about Bernie Matt. So you're
Speaker 1: going to explain it to me. But when I think
Speaker 1: about you, I think of someone who is organized and
Speaker 1: forward thinking, methodical, business like and adult. These are not
Speaker 1: things that I think of about burning man.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Okay, so talk about
Speaker 2: trash on my eggs? Hold on, hold on? What is
Speaker 2: that little care? Oh man, I don't do caveare but
Speaker 2: we don't do well. I've never liked it, but I'm
Speaker 2: going to try it. Well, this is the time. I'll
Speaker 2: give you a little bit on the side, right, so
Speaker 2: you can choose if you like her not caviar right,
Speaker 2: cavire o eggs.
Speaker 1: I'm going to I hope that I don't like that
Speaker 1: so much because I don't have the kind of money
Speaker 1: that means I can have this.
Speaker 2: It is like, so this is like eating raw good.
Speaker 3: To be to be clear, these are these are not
Speaker 3: the very expensive kind.
Speaker 2: But you know you're make me with scrambled eggs. You
Speaker 2: want to go nuts with the with it? Mm hmm
Speaker 2: you know what, Oh my god, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1: I guess, Oh my god, you so when you make
Speaker 1: scrambled eggs of burning Man. First of all, I have
Speaker 1: to know what's your attachment at Burning Man?
Speaker 2: When did you going? Why do you go? Yeah, as
Speaker 2: I first went in nineteen ninety eight. Okay, that's real
Speaker 2: burning Man. That's yeah, it's like real the old days.
Speaker 3: And you know, I didn't know what to expect. Frankly,
Speaker 3: I think no one knows what to expect.
Speaker 2: Ever, I've never been. It's so hard to describe.
Speaker 3: So I went there and I camped next to this
Speaker 3: guy kind of took care of us because we we
Speaker 3: weren't really prepared properly, as my sister and my cousin
Speaker 3: and I, and we showed up with a cooler and
Speaker 3: maybe a tense and stuff, and you just you need
Speaker 3: more infrastructure than that to have a good time at
Speaker 3: burning Man. So this sky was really large, roly poly
Speaker 3: kind of michelin Man kind of guy.
Speaker 1: Was he wearing a shirt and no pants, because that's
Speaker 1: what I think of no shirt, no pants, no shirt,
Speaker 1: no totally naked, really yeah, seriously.
Speaker 3: And he he had this roly poly skin like white,
Speaker 3: like very very bright white, and he covered himself in
Speaker 3: zinc sun block, but still took care of us.
Speaker 2: So we were We're happy to do it anyway we want.
Speaker 3: But he's still to this day has the best art
Speaker 3: piece I've ever seen at Bernie Man in twenty five years.
Speaker 3: He had a water tank that held get up, put
Speaker 3: his water tank on in the back, and out of
Speaker 3: the water tank would come a post and a circle
Speaker 3: like a metal tube, and he would walk around Bernie
Speaker 3: Man and give people showers. But the catchwords you have
Speaker 3: to be in the shower with him. The curtain would
Speaker 3: be on that rud and he would close the curtain
Speaker 3: and you'd be inside the shower with this guy. You
Speaker 3: could not avoid rubbing against him if you wanted the shower.
Speaker 2: And he was completely com I think illegal. No people
Speaker 2: volunteer to come in. I don't really want that shower.
Speaker 3: And it took me a few days to even imagine
Speaker 3: that I would ever want to get into that shower, right,
Speaker 3: And I did. At the end, I was like, you
Speaker 3: know that's actually you just stood there and he held
Speaker 3: the soap for me, and I was like, this is
Speaker 3: it's it's not just about the art. It's the experience
Speaker 3: of going out out of your comfort zone that I
Speaker 3: just really fell in love with that.
Speaker 2: Bernie Mand, do you fall in love with him? Is
Speaker 2: that what you're telling me? Did he get excited you
Speaker 2: were there?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, nope, just there to be in a shower
Speaker 3: with you?
Speaker 2: Right? What is burning mine? Because you got to talk
Speaker 2: me through it?
Speaker 1: I imagine it's just like being a bunch of people who
Speaker 1: are zapped off their TETs on some kind of you know,
Speaker 1: drug and going crazy in the desert.
Speaker 3: It's not that it's not that easy to describe. It's like,
Speaker 3: the best way I've described, Bernie Man, is.
Speaker 2: Do you like the beach? If you go to the beach.
Speaker 2: Of course, but you go.
Speaker 3: To the beach, it's hot, sunny, you know, the lot
Speaker 3: of sand. Some people don't like the beach, right, some
Speaker 3: people don't like the beach. But if someone had never
Speaker 3: seen the beach, would you say to them, I don't understand.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So it's as diverse and experience as the beach divers.
Speaker 2: Is the beach.
Speaker 3: Some people don't like it, some people love it.
Speaker 2: What do you love about it?
Speaker 3: I like the first of all, you get a break
Speaker 3: from all technology.
Speaker 2: So you're there.
Speaker 3: There's no internet, there's no phone, there's no sense of time.
Speaker 3: You wake up when you're when you wake up, you
Speaker 3: got to bed, when you want to go to bed, eat,
Speaker 3: when you're hungry, you're There's a lot of dancing, the
Speaker 3: beautiful ritual at the end of the week where you
Speaker 3: burn the man, which to me is very meaningful because
Speaker 3: you kind of put the pass behind you, right, and
Speaker 3: it's a very powerful ceremony. Eighty thousand people come around
Speaker 3: it and you do it in community.
Speaker 2: It's it's a really amazing experience. That's interesting to me.
Speaker 1: It feels like it has a, as you describe it,
Speaker 1: a sort of religious ceremonial feel to it, does it.
Speaker 2: People have tried to call it that, but it's not that.
Speaker 3: It's more it's more like it's more like an ego death,
Speaker 3: which is not really spiritual. It's more like a people
Speaker 3: talk about these things. You know, I actually broke my
Speaker 3: neck when I was in twenty ten, I was.
Speaker 2: Paralyzed for three days.
Speaker 3: It was, Oh my god, it's a complete burning no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: this is on a ski hill, right, and you realize
Speaker 3: for several days that everything you've done up until now
Speaker 3: can't continue.
Speaker 2: It's just it's just gone. You can't walk.
Speaker 3: It's it's just such a powerful and difficult experience. And
Speaker 3: it turns out they healed me and I was able
Speaker 3: to function again, but it took two years to get
Speaker 3: back to where I am. And thinking as for Western medicine,
Speaker 3: no idea, Yeah, no, it really incredible. But that experience.
Speaker 3: You kind of get a mini version of that every
Speaker 3: year at Burning Mad, where whatever you did in the
Speaker 3: past is left behind and you're burning up literalty.
Speaker 2: It's like it's the ritual. And so I wouldn't call
Speaker 2: it religious.
Speaker 3: It's more like there's a spiritual element to it. It's
Speaker 3: more it's more more of a mind conscious experience.
Speaker 1: Do you think you're you think you, I mean clearly
Speaker 1: you are someone who's drawn to the spiritual nature of things,
Speaker 1: even even with food.
Speaker 2: Are you a religious person? Do you have a dogma
Speaker 2: that you find attractive.
Speaker 3: Or I've had enough experiences in my life to really
Speaker 3: feel the presence of God, and I love that.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't relate to any of the religions.
Speaker 2: Fairly recently have to said I'm interested in being a Quaker.
Speaker 2: What is that again? Well, it's kind of like burning
Speaker 2: Man for Protestants. I think it is, like, I wonder
Speaker 2: how the Protestants do it?
Speaker 1: Probably not, Well, the Quakers have no clergy, so I'm
Speaker 1: kind of fascinated by that. And Quaker friends, the meetings
Speaker 1: that they have, I don't know enough about it, so
Speaker 1: I'm kind of outside mind. But they sit down like
Speaker 1: for an hour, and if someone wants to talk, they talk,
Speaker 1: and if no one wants to talk, they just sit
Speaker 1: for an hour.
Speaker 2: And that I feel would be very powerful. The older I.
Speaker 1: Get, the more fascinated I am with religion and spirituality.
Speaker 1: Do you know it's a C. S. Lewis, who is
Speaker 1: a great Christian apologist, said that, you know, when you're young,
Speaker 1: it's easy to be an atheist and dismiss it all
Speaker 1: because death is a horseman three hills away, right, But
Speaker 1: when you hear the sound of the hoof beats, you
Speaker 1: kind of it starts to get your attention. And I
Speaker 1: don't think I could say that I was drawn into
Speaker 1: church like religion. But there's a bunch of people have
Speaker 1: become fascinated with. Have you heard of or do you
Speaker 1: have any knowledge of the Desert Fathers origin of Alexandria,
Speaker 1: Evagrace of Pontus, Saint Anthony was a group of pre
Speaker 1: church Christians that lived in the desert in Egypt in
Speaker 1: the second.
Speaker 2: And third centuries.
Speaker 1: They're fascinating not just fathers, there were women are doing
Speaker 1: it as well, which Christianity at that time was considered
Speaker 1: really outrageous because the Romans thought they were atheists because
Speaker 1: they only had one God, and they believed that women
Speaker 1: had souls, which was like this wildly feminist idea that
Speaker 1: women were people, which Christianity had, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know the exact things, but it was much more egalitarian.
Speaker 2: And then when the Roman Empire took it over, and.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know what I think is
Speaker 1: probably the way Burning Man is now, and once it's
Speaker 1: taken over by Starbucks, Yeah, right, exactly, Amazon, and you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's like then I think that's
Speaker 1: what happens.
Speaker 3: One of the things that that Burning Man has a
Speaker 3: women's principal ethos is decommodification, meaning that no Starbucks allowed,
Speaker 3: no sponsorships allowed, no people.
Speaker 2: Actually a sorry.
Speaker 3: Companies will support incredible art pieces out there, but it
Speaker 3: has to be anonymous, right And it is such an
Speaker 3: unusual way to do things in today's world that maybe
Speaker 3: there's some truth to that.
Speaker 1: You see that thing about ego death and ego detz
Speaker 1: is a fascinating concept for me, the idea of given
Speaker 1: the myth of ownership, Like you know, you've got a
Speaker 1: bit of money, I've got a bit of money. We
Speaker 1: both know that the dirty secret about money. And anyone
Speaker 1: who doesn't have money doesn't know this dirty secret. And
Speaker 1: I grew up with no money. I know that either
Speaker 1: were time in life you didn't have any money. And
Speaker 1: the dirty secret about money is it doesn't do as
Speaker 1: much as you think it's gone.
Speaker 2: It's like que demoralizing. How the power you get out.
Speaker 1: Of it, It's like it does some things.
Speaker 2: And I remember talking to you know, Jim Carrey. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know him, but I know he's wonderful. I
Speaker 2: did a movie with Jim.
Speaker 1: Jim's he's kind of like a man in search or something,
Speaker 1: And he said he wishes everybody in the world could
Speaker 1: get everything they ever wanted, because then they would realize
Speaker 1: how much it doesn't work, because he got everything he wanted,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that the idea of fascinated
Speaker 1: by your description of burning my because the idea of
Speaker 1: ego death or the myth of ownership, and.
Speaker 3: That's stually a good point in bringing in. There's no ownership.
Speaker 3: So if you even if you created an art piece
Speaker 3: that no one knows that yours, there's no recognition. You
Speaker 3: can certainly stand next to it and tell people that's
Speaker 3: my art piece, but people don't do that. It's very
Speaker 3: hard and sunny out there. Even obviously all the camps
Speaker 3: are they're set up and taken down and there's leave
Speaker 3: no trace.
Speaker 2: So there is no ownership.
Speaker 1: What is the organizational structure of it? Then how does
Speaker 1: it come together?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fascinating organization. I'm actually on the board.
Speaker 3: It's an incredible with people in California that run our
Speaker 3: incredible group of people that's I think created the most interesting,
Speaker 3: definitely the most interesting, but also probably the most awesome
Speaker 3: event in the world. But there are only a group
Speaker 3: of say one hundred people. The thing that makes berning
Speaker 3: men very special. Is in addition to that, those hundred
Speaker 3: people organize ten thousand volunteers, right, and those ten thousand
Speaker 3: volunteers make up ten thousand of eighty thousand attendees, So
Speaker 3: they're both volunteers as well as attendees. And so you
Speaker 3: get this community built city, literally the third biggest city
Speaker 3: in Nevada for one week of the year, and they
Speaker 3: build it and then they take it down.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating because it feels like it would be difficult
Speaker 1: to have or it would be a ripe environment for
Speaker 1: people to behave badly.
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel well.
Speaker 3: Actually, the opposite happens because you're it's essentially a survival
Speaker 3: camp in the desert. You're dependent on everyone around you.
Speaker 3: You just can't survive by yourself, right, and that creates
Speaker 3: a very different psychological relationship with the people around you,
Speaker 3: where you're very nice to them. And I've had people
Speaker 3: join me over the years. Yeah, I should bring you
Speaker 3: sometimes you have a bleass.
Speaker 2: I am fascinated.
Speaker 3: But it's one of my favorite thing is to bring
Speaker 3: a vision to burning memory. They've never been and they
Speaker 3: don't understand it, but the people will actually ask me, like,
Speaker 3: how is it that everyone is so friendly? It's so
Speaker 3: unusual how friendly they are. And it's not just because
Speaker 3: they're being friendly to you because you're new or you
Speaker 3: don't really know what you're doing. They'll be friendly to
Speaker 3: you because they will need your help in some form.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I feel like, as you describe it,
Speaker 1: I think to myself, I have a level of cynicism
Speaker 1: that would look I get uncomfortable in the Midwest when
Speaker 1: people are friendly, you know. I mean, it's like, I
Speaker 1: wonder if do you have to drop that cynicism in
Speaker 1: order to feel comfortable.
Speaker 3: It doesn't serve you to be cynical because you're in
Speaker 3: survival camp. So cynicism is a luxury when you're like,
Speaker 3: I'm above everyone. I can, I can be cynical, right
Speaker 3: when you're in survival mode, that's got to go.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting, So you bring yourself down to it
Speaker 1: has to be a community that's against against the konum
Speaker 1: An enemy, if you like.
Speaker 2: Is the environment the what you're working again, the dust,
Speaker 2: the heat? Is it very druggy? Is it very kind of?
Speaker 2: I think it's really whatever people want to do, because
Speaker 2: I don't do anything, whatever you want to do.
Speaker 3: I think the use of psychedelics is very strong, I
Speaker 3: would imagine, but alcohol.
Speaker 2: Is non existent, right because it's because.
Speaker 3: It's a desert your grade you die with it. So
Speaker 3: so I think that it's very sort of mind expanding
Speaker 3: kind of drugs or medicines if you take them, but
Speaker 3: you also don't need it because it's so overwhelming how
Speaker 3: much is going on. And the other thing that is
Speaker 3: incredible is there's usually about five hundred art pieces that
Speaker 3: could range from the size of this coffee cup to
Speaker 3: the size of that tree literally even bigger because it
Speaker 3: says so incredible. And these are people who've gifted the
Speaker 3: art to the plier for that week, and I also
Speaker 3: have to take it down and remove it afterwards. One
Speaker 3: time a seven forty seven was deconstructed and rebuilt on
Speaker 3: the plier.
Speaker 2: It's awesome.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so so the scale of things
Speaker 3: is just always always beyond, but the feeling of everyone
Speaker 3: gifting makes it turns it around on you. In your
Speaker 3: own mind, You're like, well, I wonder what I could
Speaker 3: what gift Clibring, right, And so the first time you
Speaker 3: come to Bernie Man, you're usually not bringing a gift.
Speaker 3: But by the time you've left Bernie Man, you like,
Speaker 3: next time I come, I'm going to bring something. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna bring my gift whatever that is even be spoken
Speaker 3: with poetry. You don't have to bring something physical, but
Speaker 3: you're going to bring something. It's hard to hard to
Speaker 3: come back to Bernie Man and not be a participant
Speaker 3: with a gift.
Speaker 1: What about the advent of social media is it does
Speaker 1: that affect it?
Speaker 2: It doesn't affect it as much because you don't have internet.
Speaker 1: Connection, right, so people will still be recording things, which
Speaker 1: they do.
Speaker 3: But it's I think there's something about social media that
Speaker 3: that it's all about current events, or at least this
Speaker 3: is what I'm doing today, not a particularly interesting event.
Speaker 3: But if you if you go to Bernie Man and
Speaker 3: you come back in a week later, you've got some
Speaker 3: videos you want to post, Sure post them, but you're
Speaker 3: not in the moment.
Speaker 2: You know, there's no adrenaline around it.
Speaker 3: There's no like endorphins from getting likes or whatever, because
Speaker 3: it's it just takes a long time. Sort of recover
Speaker 3: from Bernie Man is quite an intense experience. It just
Speaker 3: doesn't match social media.
Speaker 1: But what about a situation where if you're there and
Speaker 1: you're you're well known, people know who you are. Well known,
Speaker 1: people know who if I'm there, like walking around naked
Speaker 1: with a show or carton, I can get people like
Speaker 1: I feel like that would.
Speaker 2: That make it out? Totally do it?
Speaker 3: But I don't think I've ever seen someone pull out
Speaker 3: their phone at burning Man, Right, it's a pretty big statement.
Speaker 3: Like I was at the Taylor Swift concert and everyone's
Speaker 3: watching through their phone.
Speaker 2: Yeah I know, and you're like, Okay, I get it.
Speaker 3: They want to record it for some posterity, for some
Speaker 3: reason at Bernie Men. Yeah, that's just the weirdest thing
Speaker 3: you can imagine.
Speaker 1: Then let's talk about the phones a little bit and recording. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I would actually have been lovely. I'm just back here
Speaker 1: again with my eggs. I'm going to actually, finally, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to steal a few more eggs because I
Speaker 1: swear to God, rich guy eggs or best eggs I've
Speaker 1: ever tasted in my life. It's a whole different Like
Speaker 1: eggs like this and Danny's just don't exist, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Oh my god, it's like barning manners
Speaker 1: in my mouth.
Speaker 2: It's delicious.
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, hey man, thanks, Is this special water
Speaker 1: or just water from the process?
Speaker 3: It is from the tapid little filtering in it. Nothing
Speaker 3: super special about little bit of right exactly.
Speaker 1: So when you were at the Taylor Swift concert people
Speaker 1: were recording through the port I in a slightly different
Speaker 1: experience but still an amazing thing to go and see.
Speaker 1: Was that the the exhibition of Vangos Cypresses the met
Speaker 1: last week, and in the exhibition of Vangos Cypresses is
Speaker 1: the starry Starry Night, the starry Night. They not started
Speaker 1: starry Night, that's the song, but starry Night, the vango,
Speaker 1: very very very famous ango.
Speaker 2: Painting out there and looking at the paint, it's a
Speaker 2: remarkable piece of art.
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable piece of art, but as I'm sure a
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift concert is. But you have to time how
Speaker 1: you see it, to not see it through the screens
Speaker 1: of other people's phones as they hold you know, they
Speaker 1: allow in there. And I feel like what we are
Speaker 1: in danger of losing. And it's interesting that you describe
Speaker 1: Burning Man the way you do, because I feel like
Speaker 1: it plays in a little bit. I think we're in
Speaker 1: danger of losing analogue biological memories. Yeah, that we record
Speaker 1: things like we don't have the capacity to do.
Speaker 2: It for ourselves. That seems weird to me.
Speaker 1: I'm perfectly capable of looking at a thing, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if something is lost by recording it.
Speaker 2: As as opposed to remembering it. I already do believe that.
Speaker 3: I obviously I don't share most people don't share that
Speaker 3: that view. But I love enjoying the Tailor Shrift concerts
Speaker 3: and being in the moment with her music right, and
Speaker 3: adding my phone reduces that, I agree the perfect experimation.
Speaker 3: In fact, when I was through show last night, I
Speaker 3: was relieved to see that no phones were allowed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in my game, you got to buy on
Speaker 1: the phones.
Speaker 3: But you might have a reason because you don't want
Speaker 3: that content, that jokes to be shared elsewhere. I think
Speaker 3: that is that's they weren't doing that. They were just
Speaker 3: watching your show with the phone so they could record
Speaker 3: it for their own personal prosperity. Right, it would they
Speaker 3: would dampen the laughter by half at least.
Speaker 1: Totally, because like if I do a stand up show,
Speaker 1: usually this happens in the bigger venues like Boulder Theater
Speaker 1: isn't one of those. But if I'm doing it like
Speaker 1: a casino or a bigger venue, which is like, you know,
Speaker 1: thousand people, they put big screens up at the site
Speaker 1: so that everybody gets a good view. But the nature
Speaker 1: of how these screens work, I speak into a microphone
Speaker 1: and a fraction of a second layer, the joke is
Speaker 1: delivered on it, and so it's.
Speaker 2: Kind of missus the beast.
Speaker 1: So all the timing is definitely you have to time
Speaker 1: like when you're playing big venues with screens, you have
Speaker 1: to time it differently. Yeah, because nobody looks at you.
Speaker 1: You're just a tiny little figure, right exactly. They all
Speaker 1: look at the giant close up of your face.
Speaker 3: You're almost watching yourself right and timing yourself for that screen.
Speaker 2: But here's an interesting thing. So there's a i' matt
Speaker 2: the mat the other day.
Speaker 1: It's just it feels to me like this plays into
Speaker 1: your burning man thing, just as we talk about it,
Speaker 1: or maybe there's something magical in the eggs. When I
Speaker 1: was in the mat, there was a there's a painting
Speaker 1: by Pisaro called I think it's.
Speaker 2: Called mon Matras Street on a Wintersday.
Speaker 1: It's not particularly famous painting, but it's a very famous artists,
Speaker 1: these French Oppression as there were post impressions.
Speaker 2: I can't remember.
Speaker 1: But it's a painting of a street in Paris on
Speaker 1: a Wednesday, and it's just everybody in it. And if
Speaker 1: you look to that reproduction of that painting, it would
Speaker 1: do you go, that's pretty. But when you stand next
Speaker 1: to the painting, it has an energy and a power.
Speaker 2: Feel, a history feel.
Speaker 1: You can smell the cold air in the street. It's
Speaker 1: this weirdest thing. And I wonder, I find myself drifting.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's my age, but I find myself drifting to
Speaker 1: analog experiences as much as possible because I find.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's an age thing.
Speaker 3: I think it's a there's a certain there's a very
Speaker 3: strong culture, let's say the world. But it's definitely in
Speaker 3: America where people use their phones a lot. But at
Speaker 3: Burning Man, which was a which was an old ages
Speaker 3: kind of thing, right, no one uses their phones at all,
Speaker 3: no matter what your age is. And what I actually
Speaker 3: find amazing is people walk around with notebooks and they write.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have a notebook.
Speaker 3: I write, but that's very very unusual, and maybe once
Speaker 3: or twice a week in that week someone will come
Speaker 3: up to you and say, would you write something in
Speaker 3: my notebook?
Speaker 2: And I find that experience quite and then.
Speaker 3: You're like, WHOA, I've got to be vulnerable, And it's
Speaker 3: more of a it's a culture of being vulnerable, drawing
Speaker 3: out vulnerability. It's the exact opposite of recording something on
Speaker 3: a phone. There are people out there of any age
Speaker 3: that are appreciating the analog experience. I think especially because
Speaker 3: of COVID. I mean what happened in COVID lot most
Speaker 3: of our analog experiences and one of the things that
Speaker 3: we did as a gathering because I love connecting with people,
Speaker 3: COVID couldn't have been worse for me. We would get
Speaker 3: together sometimes every Sunday, maybe every second Sunday, and we
Speaker 3: would just come outside in the mountains of Colorado, pretty safe.
Speaker 3: No one ever go to COVID through this, and we
Speaker 3: would just get together for you interested the Quaker thing.
Speaker 3: We got together for about an hour and people could
Speaker 3: just sing a song, they could play a song for
Speaker 3: people to dance too, and it was really analog. It
Speaker 3: was this appreciation during COVID that we love the analog experience.
Speaker 3: We live and thrive by it. Why go to the
Speaker 3: tailor shrift concert at all if you purely want the
Speaker 3: digital experience right, and you see people there in community
Speaker 3: there there's definitely a very strong style guide for a
Speaker 3: better word. Everyone's wearing pink Tutuo's and and silver silver
Speaker 3: cowboy has. But that is the community. That is the
Speaker 3: analog experience, and I think young people love it. I
Speaker 3: think the addition of the phone, I don't get it,
Speaker 3: but hopefully they still love that analog experience.
Speaker 1: I wonder if human memory is changing though, because you know,
Speaker 1: the technology is added to the evolutionary experience of human beings.
Speaker 1: So the you know, the print presses invented, you can't
Speaker 1: uninvent it. You know, the fullness here is not going.
Speaker 1: As I age, I find my memory colors my experiences.
Speaker 1: It will take an experience which is unpleasant and negate
Speaker 1: the unpleasant effects of it.
Speaker 2: It will take a you know, like something from you. Well,
Speaker 2: it is a thing to learn and learn to take
Speaker 2: it and stride right.
Speaker 1: I mean, do we lose the ability to because if
Speaker 1: you look at you know, what's lazily called cancel culture,
Speaker 1: but if you look at the reaction of people, which
Speaker 1: is visceral and permanent, that seems quite machine like to me, Like,
Speaker 1: for example, everyone in their life has probably had I
Speaker 1: certainly have had unhappy love affairs. At the time, the
Speaker 1: pain was intense, but I can look back at that
Speaker 1: the way I look back at physical scars in my body.
Speaker 1: And though the pain was intense at the time, I
Speaker 1: have a kind of sweetness and fondness to what happened.
Speaker 3: I mean, I had to go through cassel culture once.
Speaker 3: It was just right when COVID happened. So middle of March,
Speaker 3: you know, I must last name and stuff. We had
Speaker 3: to close our restaurants because of COVID government shutdown. But
Speaker 3: we closed our restaurants three days before the government ordered
Speaker 3: us to shut down, which just swortal happening. It was
Speaker 3: a Monday, that's just closed for the week, right closed.
Speaker 3: We don't sure when to reopen. And I have a
Speaker 3: lot of empathy for our team, and we did everything
Speaker 3: we could.
Speaker 2: To help them out.
Speaker 3: But for those three days, the twittersphere or everyone was
Speaker 3: trying to cancel me for closing my restaurants. And then
Speaker 3: there was a national security order maybe a national emergency
Speaker 3: on the Friday, So it was four days of feeling
Speaker 3: it and then by Friday.
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, oh, we get it. We were just a
Speaker 2: couple of days ahead. It's like, yeah, that's not okay.
Speaker 3: I'm a very empathetic human and I heard a lot
Speaker 3: about my people and to get canceled. People were just
Speaker 3: so eager to jump on something to cancel and that's
Speaker 3: not healthy.
Speaker 2: No. I think that that's right.
Speaker 1: And that's what fascinates me about your description of burning Man,
Speaker 1: because we come to a point I feel like you're
Speaker 1: and I know you enough to know your love of food,
Speaker 1: you love of these community events. You strive for empathy,
Speaker 1: right that I feel like we are in danger of
Speaker 1: losing something, something very precious, and we don't have to
Speaker 1: lose it. But I think the discussion has to be
Speaker 1: about and it's weird because it ties in to all
Speaker 1: this Judeo Christian stuff, But you have to find a
Speaker 1: form of forgiveness.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Forgiveness, by the way, I think, is it's for the forgiver. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you benefit yourself always.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The person you're trying to forget it probably didn't even
Speaker 3: understand what you're forgiving them.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: What you're doing is you're saying to yourself, I'm going
Speaker 3: to let this go. Yeah, and yeah, okay, you're forgiving
Speaker 3: the person. You might have an attachment to that person
Speaker 3: and maybe it helps you process that psycho psychologically, But
Speaker 3: the person you were helping is yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that whole idea of resentment being drinking poison
Speaker 1: and hoping somebody else will die, exactly exactly the Kimble
Speaker 1: This was delicious, not just the food but the experience.
Speaker 1: And it's always a joy for me.
Speaker 2: It's always love your comedy as well.
Speaker 1: Well, thank thank you, and I'm sorry I made a
Speaker 1: joke about Elon last night.
Speaker 3: There was good Mark and Zach in a cage match, right,
Speaker 3: we need we needed an audience.
Speaker 2: That found that funny. I think they did.
Speaker 1: Just so everybody knows the joke I made about Elon
Speaker 1: was and it wasn't really a joke.
Speaker 2: I just said that not many.
Speaker 1: People know that Elon was the sun Baby and Telly Tuppies.
Speaker 2: It was just a remark and the truth is he
Speaker 2: was your move Internet Kimble is a joy. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much.