1 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: Zoi. Houstina piaguahe president La Nacia Masoni Guadiana. 2 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: Houstino Pia Guage was born here in the Amazon. His 3 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: father led the Seco Pie nation sometimes referred to as 4 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 2: the Sequoia, and now that job has fallen to Houstino 5 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: and some of his brothers. The Seco Pie's ancestral home 6 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 2: was splintered by a war between Peru and Ecuador. If 7 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: you're not super up on your South American geography, Peru 8 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: is on the west coast of South America, ecuadors to 9 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: the north of it, Colombia is north of Ecuador, and 10 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: Venezuela is just around the bend further north. All of 11 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: these countries are to the west of Brazil. A lot 12 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: of times when people hear Amazon, they think Brazil, but 13 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: the Amazon actually crosses into several other countries. There are 14 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: less than seven hundred and fifty people left in Ustino's tribe, 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: and they're currently under very serious threat from COVID nineteen. 16 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: Several have sought refuge in the Amazon, but they may 17 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: struggle to find clean water there. 18 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: Rio Aguarico as a Impostexaco. 19 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: With Tiero Petroleo. 20 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: This is a video of Hustino on YouTube. He's standing 21 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: on a bridge over a huge rushing river and he's saying, 22 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: this river, the Aguarico River. Long ago, when they were 23 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: exploring for petroleum, the oil companies dumped thousands of barrels 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: of oil into it. 25 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: Bi piero. 26 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: Pianos the aliments. 27 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: They dumped toxic water into this river. He means wastewater 28 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: from oil and gastriline into this river that for thousands 29 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: of years nourished us. 30 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: Joso testigo, the komasido victima, norahente senuer to the cancerdades 31 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: non podido aliment is a emoc and bossy. 32 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: I am a witness to how our people have been victimized. 33 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: They have died of cancer, they have died of disease, 34 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 2: they have not been able to eat well, and that 35 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: continues today in Latin America. 36 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 4: Ecuador is seeing one of the world's worst coronavirus outbreaks, 37 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 4: with possibly thousands dead. 38 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: But that on top of various ongoing health issues. Ecuador 39 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: has been a global hotspot during the COVID nineteen pandemic. 40 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: Some Psycopi elders have already died from the disease. To 41 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: access clean water and avoid further content act with the virus. 42 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: Houstino and his tribe have been venturing further and further 43 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: into their ancestral lands deep in the Amazon. But those 44 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: lands are surrounded on all sides by oil fields, and 45 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: because they've been breathing air polluted by oil and gas 46 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: refineries and of course cars and other factories too for 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: the past few decades, these people are more likely to 48 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: die if they do catch the virus. Quarantine looks really different. 49 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: If to really be safe, you have to hide deep 50 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: in the jungle and hope no one dumps oil or 51 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: wastewater into the river you drink from. Meanwhile, three thousand 52 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: miles away in Manhattan, quarantine also looks really different. For 53 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: Steven Donziger, Hey, yeah. 54 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 3: Can you give me one minute? 55 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, go for it. Donziger is talking to me 56 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: from his two bedroom apartment in Manhattan. We spent May 57 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: and June talking every weekend by zoom him, me and 58 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: my co reporter on this season, Karen Savage. 59 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 5: Hi, Karen, Hey, how are you. 60 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:16,559 Speaker 3: I'm good? 61 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 6: How are you? 62 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 3: I'm good? Back in Boston? Yep, Sorry about that. 63 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: He liked to leave the video on and would spend 64 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: the majority of our time kind of hanging his head 65 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: out the window trying to get fresh air and sunshine. 66 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: He's got all the clean water he needs, but sun 67 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: and air are hard to come by. 68 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: Everyone goes outside, even with the pandemic and with a 69 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: face mask in New York right now, and they go 70 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 3: walk in or get exercise or walk in the park. 71 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: But I can't do that. 72 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: Well, we were all calling quarantine lockdown. This year, Donziger 73 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,119 Speaker 2: has literally been on lockdown. He's been on house arrest 74 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: for over a year at this point. To leave his apartment, 75 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: he has to submit a request to the court forty 76 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: eight hours in advance and then provide documentation of where 77 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: he's gone. We'll find out why and what that has 78 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: to do with a river in the Amazon. After this 79 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: quick break, I want to recommend one of my favorite 80 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: podcasts to you, In the Dark. In the Dark investigates 81 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: critical stories that might not otherwise be told. The second 82 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: season covered Curtis Flowers, a black man tried six times 83 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: for the same crime, and Doug Evans, the Mississippi prosecutor 84 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: determined to see him executed. In the Dark's team of 85 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 2: reporters revealed new facts and evidence which proved pivotal in 86 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court's decision to hear Flowers's case this past spring. Recently, 87 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: the state of Mississippi announced that it will drop all 88 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 2: charges and not seek a seventh trial in the case. 89 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 2: Against incredible odds. Flowers is a free man. You can 90 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 2: listen to in the dark wherever you listen to podcasts 91 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: him Amy Westervelt. Welcome back to Drilled. This is season five. 92 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,679 Speaker 2: L Lucha and La Humbla The Rumble in the Jungle. 93 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 4: The judge in Ecuador has ordered the oil company Chevron 94 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 4: to pay more than nine billion dollars in damages and 95 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: other costs. It's the result of a long running lawsuit 96 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 4: involving pollution in the Amazon Jungle. The damages are more 97 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 4: than exon. 98 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: Back in twenty eleven, Stephen Donziger helped win a big 99 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: case against the oil giant Chevron. As a result, Chevron 100 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: was ordered to pay more than nine billion dollars to 101 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: clean up waste pits of oil and refining fluids left 102 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: in the Ecuadorian Amazon by Texico, the company's Chevron acquired 103 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: in two thousand. But the case didn't end there. Back 104 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: in the ub Us, Chevron took Donziger and the other 105 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: lawyers to civil court, finding a racketeering case against them, 106 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: otherwise known as a Rico case, and accusing them of fraud. 107 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: Donziger and the other attorneys lost that case back in 108 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. Put in twenty eighteen, the judge that Rico 109 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: case came after him. 110 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 3: He ordered me to turn over my computer and cell 111 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: phone to Chevron's lawyers in the middle of a litigation. 112 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: And it's sort of like, you know, asking a laurier 113 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 3: to turn over his or her confidential case file to 114 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 3: your adversary council right in the middle of a litigation. 115 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: It's obviously a major intrusion into my rights, into the 116 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 3: rights of my clients who are entitled to have confidentiality 117 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 3: with their lawyer. And I just felt like it was 118 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 3: an illegal order. So I told them, like, you know, 119 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 3: I can't turn this over without violating my ethical duties 120 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: to myself to my clients in Ecuador. So I'm going 121 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: to appeal it. 122 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: Donziger was in the process of filing that appeal when 123 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: he heard from the judge again. 124 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: So what happened was I was up in Toronto working 125 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: with the legal team for the Ecuadorians in Canada, because 126 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: that's the country, where there's a lot of work being 127 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 3: done to enforce the judgment against Chevron internationally, and over 128 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: my computer, it came a notification that this judge should 129 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: charge me with crimes. I was shocked, to say the least, 130 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: and he had ordered me to appear in court I think. 131 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: A week later, Judge Kaplan charged him with criminal contempt, 132 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: but in conjunction with a civil case. So while the 133 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: original case could result in fines, this one could actually 134 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: land Donziger in jail. 135 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 3: Basically, there's no statute for it. You know. It's not 136 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: like assault or a burglary or a murder. It's basically, 137 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 3: if a judge decides that a person, a lawyer who 138 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: practicing before him, treats the court with disrespect or somehow 139 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 3: doesn't comply with an order that the judge feels is 140 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: in a sufficient kind of way, the judge can actually 141 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 3: take that, on his or her own relition, with no 142 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 3: check on his or her power, can charge a lawyer 143 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 3: with a crime. That's an awesome, enormous power that is 144 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 3: easily subject, in my view, to abuse. 145 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: Caplin, a senior US district judge for the Southern District 146 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: of New York, has charged Donziger with contempt for refusing 147 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: to hand over his files and for a few other 148 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: things that we'll get to in future episodes. When he 149 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 2: got back from Canada a few days after this trip 150 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: he was on, Donziger headed to court intending to ask 151 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 2: for a couple of weeks to give him time to 152 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: hire a lawyer. He thought it would be a pretty straightforward, 153 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: administrative thing. His wife and a couple of friends came 154 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: with him. 155 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 3: The first day. I walked into court in August six 156 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 3: with my wife and a couple of friends, and I 157 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: was like, you know, this is going to be like 158 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 3: no problem. I mean, you know, I've been coming to 159 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: court for ten years in this courthouse, and I'm a lawyer, 160 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: and you know I've never committed a crime, and you 161 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 3: know they're just gonna I'm just gonna ask for two 162 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 3: weeks so I can figure out how to hire a lawyer, 163 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: and then we'll come back and we'll figure out what 164 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 3: we're going to do instead. I realized pretty quickly there 165 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: was like this thing in the air, the hostility of 166 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: like the judge and her clerks and the court personnel. 167 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: So when a judge like Caplin charges a lawyer with 168 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: criminal contempt. They're not allowed to oversee that case themselves. Instead, 169 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: another judge is supposed to be selected at random. This 170 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: is to cut down on any personal animals or bias 171 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,479 Speaker 2: a judge might have against a lawyer who has disrespected 172 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 2: him or his court. Donziger has accused Caplain of hand 173 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 2: picking the judge for his case. Her name is Loretta Presca. 174 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 2: She's a fellow of the Federalist Society, just like Kaplin 175 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 2: and Donziger thinks it's all suspicious. Here he is again. 176 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 3: They subjected me to an interview with what's called a 177 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 3: pretrial Services officer, which is an office and office in 178 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: the courthouse that interviews are people charged with crimes to 179 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 3: determine what their conditions or release and any should be. 180 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 3: And they assess your financial assets and your likelihood that 181 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: you're going to flee. And they were treating me like 182 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 3: I was just like a criminal. They require me to 183 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: give up my passport and like, did you have your 184 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 3: passport on you or did you No? No, I didn't, 185 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 3: I didn't They They what they do is they give 186 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 3: you a few days to comply, with the threat of 187 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 3: jail hanging over you if you don't comply. And I mean, 188 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: obviously I'm going to give up my passport a order 189 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 3: by the court. And also I had no lawyer. You know, 190 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, and just because you're 191 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: a lawyer doesn't mean you're a good lawyer for every 192 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 3: situation by any means. And I needed a lawyer, and 193 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: I told the judge I really don't want to do 194 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 3: anything without a lawyer. So she found a lawyer for 195 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: me in the courthouse who agreed to represent me just 196 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: for purposes of part of this what's called an arraignment. 197 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 3: So I had to wait for him to show up. 198 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: So this is all happening behind the scenes in the 199 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 2: offices of the courthouse. Meanwhile, Donziger's wife and friends are 200 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: waiting for him, and time is passing and everyone is 201 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: just starting to get really worried. 202 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: And I remember we went back to this to the 203 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: jury room, which was empty so we could have some privacy, 204 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 3: and he looked at me and he goes, he goes, 205 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 3: You're living a nightmare. And you know, when I walked 206 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 3: back to that jury room, I passed my wife who 207 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: was sitting in the gallery, you know, completely flipped out, 208 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: and she was with a good friend of mine Karen Hinton, 209 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: and I mouthed to them, I said, I think they're 210 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 3: going to try to put me in jail today. 211 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: At this point, Donziger's memory of this day starts to 212 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: get a little hazy, the way your memory does when 213 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: you're in an incredibly stressful situation. He doesn't remember much 214 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: about standing in front of the judge, but he does 215 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: remember the prosecutor. 216 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 3: There was a prosecutor. There actually three of them. And 217 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 3: this was another very bizarre feature, I think unprecedented, was 218 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 3: the judge Caplan's criminal charges, who first took them to 219 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 3: the US Attorney's Office in New York. That's the office 220 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: that was the regular prosecutor, and they looked at the 221 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: charges and refused to prosecute the charges, you know, which 222 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 3: I think speaks volumes about whether they're worthy. Instead, he 223 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: appointed a private law firm, that is, he went to 224 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: a corporate law firm and said, you'd be the prosecutor. 225 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 3: I'll use my inherent power as a US judge to 226 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: let you act as the US government. The firm was 227 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 3: called Seward and Kissel. 228 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: By the time he left that courtroom, Donziger was terrified 229 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: and in a daze. 230 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: Basically, they said I had to put up an eight 231 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars bomb, give up my passport, and wear 232 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 3: an ankle bracelet twenty four to seven and not leave 233 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: my apartment. I was so freaked out. Like by the 234 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 3: time I walked out of court to go get my 235 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: ankle bracelet, I almost was just relieved to be going home, right, 236 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: And they could have put me in handcuffs, ankle bracelet 237 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 3: and shacks, and like I would have been in a 238 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 3: weird way relief to just go to my house. Man, 239 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 3: I needed to get the hell out of there and 240 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 3: get home and just regroup and get a lawyer and 241 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: figure out my next step. So you know, I then 242 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: had to go to this office and I had to 243 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: wait around and I got fitted with an ankle bracelet 244 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 3: and fingerprinted. 245 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: Then he had to go straight home, no lunch, no 246 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: stops along the way. 247 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: You know. We finally got out of there like two 248 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: hours later. You know, the hearing had been at ten am, 249 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: so you know, he finally maybe left the court at 250 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: one o'clock. And from that point on I had not 251 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 3: been a free man, Like I couldn't go grab lunch. 252 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 3: I had to go right to the subway. I had 253 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 3: to sort of be that person with an ankle bracelet, 254 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: so you're always aware of the subway whether your pants 255 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: are covering your bracelet, which is the bottom of your leg. 256 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 3: People were good at funny. 257 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: That relief he felt to be going home was pretty 258 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: quickly replaced by a panic. He still had to come 259 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: up with eight hundred thousand dollars or he'd be put 260 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: in jail, and the judge had given him one week 261 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: to come up with that money. He decided to put 262 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: his apartment up as the bond, and the court accepted that, 263 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: so he was in the clear. 264 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: About a week later, Chevron, as I said, their lawyers 265 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 3: were in court and monitoring my criminal case. So on 266 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: the civil reco case, they had convinced Catherine to impose 267 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: court costs on me to cover some of their costs. So, 268 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: in addition trying to destroy my reputation, trying to take 269 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 3: all my money, freeze my bank accounts, and then ultimately 270 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: deprive me of my liberty. So it's part of the 271 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: financial feature of the attack. Chevron had prior to my 272 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: appearance in the criminal contempt case, they had gotten a 273 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: eight hundred thousand dollars cost order against me from Judge 274 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 3: kaplan to pay some of their court costs in any event, 275 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 3: when I hosted the bond secured by my apartment, suddenly 276 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 3: the prosecutor showed up with a new letter saying we're 277 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: concerned about it because Chevron has some sort of notice 278 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 3: of lean on his apartment because of this eight hundred 279 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: thousand dollars cost order that Capitain had issued against me 280 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: like a year or two before. And they said that 281 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 3: as a result, that apartment is not unencumbered and it's 282 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 3: it's not adequate to post the bond because Chevron has 283 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: a claim on my apartment. So the judge get appointed 284 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 3: by Kapitla immediately issues in order agreeing with the prostitute 285 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: are giving me forty eight hours to find a substitute bond. 286 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: This stressed me out when Donziger told me about it, 287 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: and it stresses me out again just listening to it. 288 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: If you've ever worried about how you're going to pay 289 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: rent or a medical bill or grocery bill, the idea 290 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 2: of having forty eight hours to come up with eight 291 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars or you're going to jail. Wow. And 292 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: just a note here that of course, this happens all 293 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: throughout our criminal justice system. There are people sitting in 294 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 2: jails all over the country right now because they couldn't 295 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: afford a bond. Whether it's eight hundred dollars or eight 296 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars, it's a terrible situation to be in. 297 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: So at this point, Donziger is having a full blown 298 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 2: panic attack. 299 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 3: I wrote an email and based we put it out 300 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 3: there and explain the exact situation, and I sent it 301 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 3: out to five people. It's probably eight o'clock at night, 302 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: and the most bizarre thing happened. I got a phone 303 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 3: call ten minutes later. Wow, from a man who lives 304 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: in San Francisco that I've known for twenty twenty five years. 305 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 3: He's probably before this happened. He was one of the 306 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: people I admire most in the world. He's done a 307 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 3: lot of work in equital for indigenous peoples. And he 308 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 3: called me up and with like literally no questions asked, 309 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 3: he says, I'll do it. 310 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 2: Wow. 311 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, just thinking about it, you know, it 312 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: brings tears to my eyes because well, it's sort of 313 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 3: hard to explain, like when you're really down, yeah, and 314 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 3: you put out a plea to the world, and it 315 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 3: just kind of reinforces your faith because you know, most 316 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 3: people give a shit, they really care. 317 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 2: So he avoided jail, but he can't set foot outside 318 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: his apartment door without his ankle bracelet going off. And 319 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: like I said before, if he wants to leave the apartment, 320 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: he has to request permission forty eight hours in advance, 321 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: and it might not be granted. It's not an automatic thing. 322 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 3: I'm tracked twenty four to seven even around my own apartment. 323 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 3: My ankle bracelet, which kind of is very big and 324 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 3: feels like a garage door opener, you know, on my ankle. 325 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 3: I call it the black claw. It talks to me 326 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 3: sometimes wakes me and my wife up in the middle 327 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 3: of the night when the battery runs low. It says 328 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 3: this weird kind of Caucasian male voice that's taped comes 329 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: on and it says, uh, something like I've heard it 330 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: so many times. I getected exactly right now, but it 331 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 3: says something like battery low recharge unit, battery low recharge unit. 332 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 3: And it just keeps repeating it over and over, so 333 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 3: you know, I have to get up and go. There's 334 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 3: a base where the battery the other batteries charging it 335 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 3: have to change the battery in the middle of the night. 336 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: But the crazy part about that, I mean, you know 337 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 3: that might happen once every couple of weeks when I 338 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 3: don't get the timing right or the battery didn't charge right. 339 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 3: But like literally every night I go to bed like 340 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 3: worried it's going to happen again. 341 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: Donziger has still not had a trial. The charge against 342 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: him is a mist to mean. He's been on house 343 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: arrest for more than a year. I spoke with him 344 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 2: just a few days before his trial is supposed to happen. 345 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: He's been asking for it to be postponed again because 346 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: the COVID restrictions make it impossible for his lawyers to 347 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 2: show up. There's been a hole back and forth. The 348 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: court seems to be pretty intent on pushing the trial forward, 349 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: and Donziger is really really worried that their whole goal 350 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: is to just put him in jail. 351 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 6: Oh right now, it's the week before labor d eight, twenty. 352 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 5: Twenty, and I have my criminal contempt trial without a jury, 353 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 5: without my lawyers because they were just disqualified as scheduled 354 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 5: for six days from now, and the judge is trying 355 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 5: to force. 356 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 6: Me into trial, taking extraordinary measures to put me on trial, 357 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 6: in my opinions, so they can incarcerate me and basically 358 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 6: a proceeding that would be totally unfair and unconstitutional. 359 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: When we spoke before about this possible ability, he said 360 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: he's worried about what might happen to him there. It's 361 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: not just about being locked up, especially during a pandemic 362 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: when COVID rates are quite high in prisons. This past 363 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: year has not been good for his mental health. 364 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 3: I have an adolescent son, of thirteen year old son, 365 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 3: a wife and a family and very uncertain future. It's 366 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 3: enormously stressful. 367 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 5: YEA. 368 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 3: It affects your sleep, It affects your outlook, it affects 369 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 3: everything about life. It's very psychologically destabilizing, and I would 370 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: argue it's designed to be. I mean, that's why they're doing. 371 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 6: So. 372 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: We know how dons that are wound up with an 373 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: ankle bracelet under house arrest in his Manhattan apartment. But 374 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: you might still be wondering why why would an oil company, 375 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: as Donziger alleges, go to this much trouble to shut 376 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: him down. On our next episode, we're going to get 377 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: into all of that and how the heck this all happened. 378 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 2: This is a story with a lot of different sides, 379 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: and sometimes even people who seem like they'd be on 380 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 2: the same team don't see eye to eye in any 381 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 2: way at all. Ultimately, after reading thousands and thousands of 382 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: pages of court documents and spending dozens of hours talking 383 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: to people involved in the case, I think I probably 384 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: agree most with this guy. Okay, yeah, that's Alec Baldwin. 385 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 2: Somehow he wound up involved in this case too. 386 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,479 Speaker 3: There's only one issue that needs to be discussed here, 387 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: and that is what is the right thing to do 388 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: on behalf of the ecuador And people. 389 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: Of course, not everyone agrees on what exactly the right 390 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: thing to do for the Ecuadorians is. Either to try 391 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 2: to suss all of that out, we'll head back to 392 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: Ecuador and back in time, all the way to the 393 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, come back for that. Drilled is an original 394 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: production of the Critical Frequency podcast Network. It's reported and 395 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 2: produced by me Amy Westerveldt. My co reporter on this 396 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 2: season is Karen Savage. Our editor is Julia Ritchie. Mixing 397 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: and mastering by Mark Busch. Additional reporting from Emily Gertz, 398 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 2: additional production help from Sarah Ventry. Original score was composed 399 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 2: by b Beeman. Matt Fleming created our beautiful artwork for 400 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 2: this season. Our fact checker is wood On Yon, our 401 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton, and the First Amendment 402 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: Project Maggie Taylor is our marketing director. You can find 403 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 2: supplement stories, documents, photos, and interviews on our website at 404 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: drillednews dot com. If you're a Patreon subscriber, thank you. 405 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 2: Your membership is paying for this podcast right now. Patreon 406 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: subscribers get access to an ad free podcast feed, and 407 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 2: we're working on getting you more perks for your membership, 408 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 2: including early access to episodes for this season. If you 409 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: don't want to wait a whole week for the next episode, 410 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 2: consider becoming a member at Patreon dot com slash drillt 411 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 2: that's it for this time, Thanks for listening, and we'll 412 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: see you soon.