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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Let's Giants.

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Speaker 2: Get the Giants bubbling, give me some job.

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Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Citizens, the Official Bank of the Giants. John Schmelch,

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Speaker 1: joined by friend of the program Matt Miller from ESPN

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Speaker 1: in the Hackensack Marine Health Podcast Studio. Keep getting better, met,

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Speaker 1: Good to talk to you, man, How.

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Speaker 2: Are you Yeah, I'm doing well man, Getting excited for

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Speaker 2: this draft. Excited to talk some Giants with you today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. We were recording this right before literally the Choud

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Speaker 1: or Sanders Pro Day starts, So keep in mind this

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Speaker 1: will be airing early next week, so fans, we don't

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Speaker 1: talk about the shouldar Standers Pro Day, That's why. But

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Speaker 1: we are going to start with should or Sanders, Matt.

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Speaker 1: And that's because in your seven round mock draft, and

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Speaker 1: we'll go through all the picks quickly that you had

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Speaker 1: last week, you had should or Sanders going to the

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Speaker 1: Giants at three. And I'm struggling with this, to be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, because I understand the value when you're this,

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Speaker 1: how you want to try to get your quarterback. But

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Speaker 1: then I look at my grades on Hunter, Carter and

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Speaker 1: Sanders next to each other, and I just can't like

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Speaker 1: crawl over the crest of the hill to get over

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Speaker 1: to do it myself. So what was your thought process here?

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Speaker 2: I'm with you. It's the same thing, John, And as

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Speaker 2: you know, mock drafts are they're not what we see.

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Speaker 2: They're what we hear and what we think, right like,

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Speaker 2: what we think will happen. And at the time that

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Speaker 2: I wrote that mock draft, it's probably about two weeks now,

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Speaker 2: it was right when Russell Wilson signed. And I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to weigh how much does a one year, ten and

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Speaker 2: a half million dollar contract for Russell Wilson matter. And

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Speaker 2: it's also, like I have heard all season long, no

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Speaker 2: team must done more work on shore Sanders than the

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Speaker 2: New York Giants. No team. And I didn't hear that

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Speaker 2: from the Giants. I heard that from Shit to Colorado.

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Speaker 2: And as you said, you and I are talking, the

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Speaker 2: showcase is happening. The Giants said, basically, the entire organization

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Speaker 2: to Boulder, Colorado, which is beautiful but not really a

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Speaker 2: place you want to go early April unless you're going

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Speaker 2: there to see a player, and so it is. It

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Speaker 2: is tough, and so I put your door there at three.

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Speaker 2: Would I say I have one hundred percent conviction on it, No,

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Speaker 2: not at all. Would I say I have seventy five

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Speaker 2: percent conviction on it. No, But I think there's a

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Speaker 2: fifty percent shot that it's Shador Sanders, and I think

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Speaker 2: there's a fifty percent shot it's his teammate Travis Hunter.

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Speaker 2: So it is. I think, you know, a Colorado Buffalo

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Speaker 2: could be in New York in three weeks, which one

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Speaker 2: we will we will see, But I at least think

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Speaker 2: it's a possibility at this point that they would consider

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Speaker 2: Shador Sanders because to your point, the value and the

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Speaker 2: idea that if there's a quarterback there that you love,

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Speaker 2: you have to draft them no matter what you do

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Speaker 2: in free agency, and with Russ and James being locked

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Speaker 2: up for a year, that doesn't keep you from doing

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Speaker 2: anything at pick number three.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. Now, let's say you get to

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Speaker 1: pick three and this is not going to happen. But

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Speaker 1: I'm just putting Matt Miller in the GM chair here,

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Speaker 1: and you're you're not worry about anything except making the

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Speaker 1: team as good as you can and you have sure

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Speaker 1: standards sitting there, Travis Hunter sitting there, and you have

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Speaker 1: Abdul Carter sitting there. If you are Matt Miller GM,

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Speaker 1: which one of those three players you're taking.

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Speaker 2: H I take out Dull Carter because he's the best

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Speaker 2: player in the draft, and and it's because, like from

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Speaker 2: a needs standpoint, I would say he's third on that list,

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Speaker 2: you know, behind a quarterback on a wide receiver slash corner.

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Speaker 2: But I love Abduall Carter. I think he's gonna be special.

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Speaker 2: Now it does break down to, like, Okay, how would

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Speaker 2: he fit with Brian Burns? How does he fit with Kavon?

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Speaker 2: You figure it out basically, right, you can ever have

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Speaker 2: too many pass rushers. It's a good problem to have.

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Speaker 2: I love the idea of Travis Hunter in New York

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Speaker 2: as well, though, just because you know, playing next to

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Speaker 2: Thelik neighbors, playing next to Pausinatedebo, like, you have the

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Speaker 2: ability to do a little bit of both and kind

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Speaker 2: of solve two problems with one pick. So with all

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Speaker 2: these guys, I could talk myself into loving the pick.

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Speaker 2: I can talk myself into loving Shador for the Giants.

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Speaker 2: Even my pick if if Joe Shane mysteriously disappears in

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Speaker 2: the next three weeks and they need me to fill in,

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Speaker 2: it would be Abduall. Carter would be the pick, just

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Speaker 2: again because I think he is the best player in

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Speaker 2: this draft, and this is a team that is And

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Speaker 2: I say this about all teams, bad teams, just drafts

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Speaker 2: good football players. Don't get caught up in the needs.

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Speaker 2: Just draft good football players because ultimately you're going to

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Speaker 2: need them. Your history of drafting is not strong enough

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Speaker 2: to say that any player really is a foundational prospect.

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Speaker 2: Elike Neighbors, looks like he's going to be one. I'm

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Speaker 2: a big fan of the defensive line and the prospects

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Speaker 2: to have in New York, but this is not a

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Speaker 2: team that's good enough to ignore great football players at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 1: Just keep building the foundational get as many foundational players

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Speaker 1: as you can. I'm with you, all right. Round two,

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Speaker 1: you have the Giants lucking Omega egg Buka, which I

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Speaker 1: won't take the need out of it. I think this

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Speaker 1: second group of wide receivers in this draft mat is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Now you have Luther Burden ahead of Tech McMillan even

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Speaker 1: on your board, so I know you're higher on him,

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Speaker 1: so let's take him out of the equation. I think

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Speaker 1: the golden egg Buka, who I do have slightly above

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Speaker 1: this next group. But then the Jalen Nole Jayden Higgins.

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Speaker 1: I I think that is a I love the day

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Speaker 1: two group of wide receivers here a lot more than

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Speaker 1: I like the Day one group. If you need a

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Speaker 1: number two wide receiver, you already have one. This is

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Speaker 1: a great draft to find one on day two.

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Speaker 2: I'm with you on him percent and I have Abuka

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Speaker 2: a little bit higher. I have a kind of the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the first tier on the first round or

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Speaker 2: top thirty two. Great on him, I should say, I'm

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Speaker 2: with you. I'm fascinated by the round two wide receiver group.

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Speaker 2: The two guys from Ohio Iowa State, excuse me, Jalen

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Speaker 2: Nowell and Jadi Higgins. I love both. Trey Harris from Olenss.

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Speaker 2: I think he's going to slep on a little bit

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Speaker 2: because he had an injury this past year. Save On

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Speaker 2: Williams from TCU is a really fun offensive weapon. Funny

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Speaker 2: thing about Savian Williams. I talked to someone at TCU.

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Speaker 2: He had the strongest arm of the team. He throwed

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Speaker 2: football eighty yards?

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Speaker 1: Is that true?

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Speaker 2: Awesome?

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Speaker 1: I mean he's huge. I mean, I'm not sure right.

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Speaker 2: But wildcat quarterback. He ran for six touchdowns and they

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Speaker 2: caught six more So he's kind of a gadget guy.

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Speaker 2: But how fun would that be to have a weapon

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Speaker 2: like that for you?

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Speaker 1: Have you talked to them why they didn't use him

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Speaker 1: more on contested catches down the field because when he

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Speaker 1: did it, he would great at it, but they didn't

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Speaker 1: have him do it a ton.

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Speaker 2: The feedback I got was that their offense was not

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Speaker 2: good enough to do that, basically, like, they didn't they

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Speaker 2: didn't trust, you know, to be to do that, which

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Speaker 2: that's you know, I'm not a coach, they're they're there

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Speaker 2: every day. If that's the feedback, I respect it, but

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Speaker 2: I'm with you. I love this day two class. I

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Speaker 2: got to throw Jack Besh in there from also from

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Speaker 2: TCU another year. I mean, the way that they didn't

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Speaker 2: use both those guys is confounded. It is It is tough,

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Speaker 2: you know, but we have that every year with players.

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Speaker 2: I think we could look at Iowa State and say,

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Speaker 2: you have these two guys and that was your offense

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Speaker 2: this year. Say okay, and I love Kyle Williams from

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Speaker 2: Washington State. If you go back and watch cam Ward

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Speaker 2: when he was at Washington State, watch he and Kyle

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Speaker 2: Williams against Colorado and you're gonna see a really, really

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Speaker 2: good player. He had a great Senior Bowl. You and

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Speaker 2: I were both down there, so I'm with you, and

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of a wide receiver guy, like I love

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Speaker 2: wide receivers, and this year is one of those where

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Speaker 2: I just I keep getting more and more excited the

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Speaker 2: more I watch.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna put in the same category as

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Speaker 1: those TCU guys. You know. I watched Isaac Tesla at

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Speaker 1: the combine and I'm like, wow, yes, that is a

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Speaker 1: great workout. Then I looked at his stats and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna go look at the tape now,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna look at a guy that has no

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Speaker 1: idea what he's doing and he's just a workout warrior.

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Speaker 1: Then I put on the tape and I'm sitting there

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my gosh, why isn't this guy

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Speaker 1: have monster numbers. He's actually a really good route runner.

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Speaker 1: He gets in that of his breaks tremendously well. Like

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Speaker 1: the workout numbers, actually show up on the tape. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: why does it wiren't his numbers better?

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Speaker 2: So you know, I live right there. I live very

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Speaker 2: close to the University of Arkansas. I go to practices

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Speaker 2: in the summer. I go to a couple of games

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Speaker 2: a year. It's a bad quarterback play. And his teammate

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Speaker 2: Andrew Armstrong is a very good wide receiver as well,

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Speaker 2: just tough as hell, you know, really good underneath guy.

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Speaker 2: They could not get them the ball. They lost a

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Speaker 2: great tight end prospect for next year. Luke has he

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Speaker 2: transferred to. I believe he went to Ole Miss and

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Speaker 2: he he's a great Titan prospect. They couldn't get any

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Speaker 2: of them the ball, and so Arkansas, you know it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be a bit of an uphill climb for them

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Speaker 2: next season. But it is remarkable. And I think this

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Speaker 2: is a great broader point. You mentioned how much I

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Speaker 2: love Luther Burden. I think when scouting wide receivers are

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Speaker 2: tight ends, we sometimes forget that they're dependent on the

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Speaker 2: quarterback and the scheme. You can be as great as

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Speaker 2: you could ever be, you are dependent on your quarterback

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Speaker 2: to get you the ball and the scheme to call

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Speaker 2: your number and if those things don't happen, your stats

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Speaker 2: are going to drop. And it's why with receivers statistics matter,

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Speaker 2: They absolutely do, but only in context. And I think

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Speaker 2: with all these guys, when you're looking at just the

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Speaker 2: box score, you're gonna miss a lot because you have

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Speaker 2: to add in the context stuff they weren't playing with

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Speaker 2: camp Ward at quarterback or Shador Sanders at quarterback, or

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Speaker 2: they weren't playing in a great scheme all the time.

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Speaker 2: So it's definitely something you have to factor in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for guys like Burden, guys like Jackson Dart even

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Speaker 1: as a quarterback, like these college schemes. Man, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to watch these guys in a college scheme and then

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Speaker 1: really get a feel for how they're going to translate, right,

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Speaker 1: because they're just not doing NFL things and they might

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Speaker 1: be really good about what they're being asked to do,

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Speaker 1: but how does that translate to the pros, which to

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Speaker 1: me is still the biggest challenge of scouting every year

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Speaker 1: and figuring out what guys are going to translate to

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Speaker 1: which guys aren't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it is. And it's funny because like we

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Speaker 2: all watch the NFL, the NFL like there's thirty two teams.

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Speaker 2: They run like three offenses, right, Like you have your Shanahan,

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Speaker 2: your McVeigh, and you know your your old school West

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Speaker 2: Coast to some degree. But it's like it's kind of

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Speaker 2: it's not that dissimilar. You get to college and it's

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Speaker 2: like the wild West. You've got one hundred different offenses,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it does make it tough. I have

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Speaker 2: really started to lean harder into analytics as I, you know,

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Speaker 2: do this job longer. I'm trying to solve the puzzle

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Speaker 2: as many ways as I can. Right, give me all

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Speaker 2: the answers that are out there. But as much as

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Speaker 2: we love numbers and analytics, they do require context, and

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Speaker 2: especially for wide receivers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like Trey Howards for example, Like his yards per

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Speaker 1: route run are just off the charts, even though he

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Speaker 1: plays it a very simple That's one of the things

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Speaker 1: you can kind of look at for a player like that.

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Speaker 1: All Right, you got a couple of pass rushers for

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Speaker 1: the Giants around three their first pick of sixty five.

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Speaker 1: You have Darius Alexander, the defensive tackle, and then Braden

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Speaker 1: Swinson in the fourth round and boy, Matt, we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this before when we've talked offline. This is just

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Speaker 1: a super deep class at edge and a defensive tackle.

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Speaker 1: How deep does that go and what do they use

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Speaker 1: the sweet spot? Is it worth waiting till rounds three

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Speaker 1: and four? Just because there's so many of these guys.

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Speaker 2: I think Edge Rusher, I love round three. I love

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Speaker 2: round four. You mentioned Braden Swinson. I have a third

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Speaker 2: round great on him, but he just and Swinson wasn't

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Speaker 2: the only guy. So many of these players just kind

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Speaker 2: of fell down the border as I did a seven

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Speaker 2: round mock and it was like, there's no way this

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Speaker 2: guy should be available here, but he is, and so

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Speaker 2: the value is so good that you you kind of

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Speaker 2: have to jump on him. I think for defensive tackle,

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Speaker 2: we'll probably see it late second round. John is where

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Speaker 2: like guys like Darius Alexander, Josh Farmer, I love Ty

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Speaker 2: Robinson from Nebraska, especially if you need a five technique,

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Speaker 2: They're probably gonna be late second round gry guys. So

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Speaker 2: if I had to excuse me, if I just stack

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Speaker 2: my board, I would probably say, d tackle, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: go late round two. Edge Rusher, I think you can

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Speaker 2: get into round three, maybe even round four, and you're

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Speaker 2: still getting some quality players who can be at least,

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Speaker 2: you know, like a primary rush defender. But we could

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Speaker 2: find those in a Round four this year, guys like

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Speaker 2: uh Antoine Powell Ryland from Virginia Tech, you know, or

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Speaker 2: Ashton go Out from for Louisville. Like, there are gonna

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Speaker 2: be good players in Round four at the edge position.

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Speaker 1: Maybe ol fam Ola Dajo from UCLA can drop that

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Speaker 1: far right, who has older.

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Speaker 2: He's fascinating, I know, fascinating to me and I have

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Speaker 2: a second round great on him. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: it's funny. It's funny that you mentioned him because I

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Speaker 2: talked to someone two days ago and they said, you

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Speaker 2: know who my my shocker first round pick is is

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Speaker 2: Fimmy from UCLA. And I said, you know what, that

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Speaker 2: would be a shock, but could I see it? Like yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I could just because of the position he

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Speaker 2: plays as an edge rusher, and I mean they had

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Speaker 2: this guy playing slot at times, you know, but he

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Speaker 2: can also he could play space. He played his hand down.

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Speaker 2: So he's a fascinating prospect that unfortunately we spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of our time talking about three or four players

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Speaker 2: and guys like that kind of get lost.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no question about it. By the way, all these

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Speaker 1: articles were referencing that Matt that you can find over

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Speaker 1: at ESPN dot com. Giants Total Podcast is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Citizens, the official bank of the New York Giants.

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Speaker 1: From game day celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big

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Speaker 1: Blue Fans can get the most out of every moment

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Speaker 1: huddle up, get in here.

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Speaker 2: If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the

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Speaker 2: middle with at the score great? How do we make

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Speaker 2: that happen? I don't know, Bud Citizens, Does it makes

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Speaker 2: sense of your money? With Citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning?

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Speaker 1: You know you mentioned the draft in general, I do

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Speaker 1: think and when we'll get to your first round grades

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Speaker 1: in a second. Once you get past these first fifteen

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Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen guys, people are going to be shocked what

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Speaker 1: players get picked in the final twelve picks of that

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Speaker 1: first round, because my understanding is from picks twenty to

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Speaker 1: like six. Boards around the league are all over the place.

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Speaker 1: Are you hearing the same thing?

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing the same thing. My board is that way,

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Speaker 2: you know, I put a number grade on every player.

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Speaker 2: It kind of helps me and I'm at that point

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Speaker 2: of the process, and you mentioned I just put out

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Speaker 2: my final first round grades, so those players are locked in.

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Speaker 2: I could tell you how many players I have like

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Speaker 2: an eighty on, which equates to like a late second

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Speaker 2: round pick. Right, It's I have so many eighty grades

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Speaker 2: and I don't have a lot of third round grades,

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Speaker 2: so it kind of evens out. But it is certainly

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Speaker 2: one of those years. And I've talked to teams about

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Speaker 2: that and they've said the same, John. It's like guys

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Speaker 2: drafted in the twenties this year, And here's a prediction

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Speaker 2: I heard that it's gonna be like, we're gonna see

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Speaker 2: teams that on good football players who have good football character,

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Speaker 2: because like, I don't want to throw any names under

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Speaker 2: the bus, but there's gonna be guys that's that fall

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Speaker 2: in this draft because of football character. And you're gonna say, like, wait,

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Speaker 2: I thought he was gonna be a first round pick,

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Speaker 2: but in a draft that lacks a lot of superstars,

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Speaker 2: a lot of true first round grades, teams are going

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Speaker 2: to default too. So hey, the first round, we need

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Speaker 2: a guy who can contribute and who's not gonna be

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Speaker 2: a problem for us. And you know, I've had conversations

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Speaker 2: with folks from other organizations who are really leaning into

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Speaker 2: that philosophy of we need guys who love football and

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Speaker 2: played it at a high level. And I think we're

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Speaker 2: gonna see that in this draft, where we don't see

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Speaker 2: as many projects in the first round, We're gonna see

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Speaker 2: a lot more proven, ready to go players.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I said this some of the other day as well,

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Speaker 1: where I think once you get past pick twenty, if

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Speaker 1: there's a you know, a guard that's just gonna be

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Speaker 1: a good starter, like a Tyler Booker. Like I've seen

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Speaker 1: some last grass where he's like like a mid second

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Speaker 1: round pick. I'm like, you guys are out of your mind.

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Speaker 1: He is such a safe player and his character is

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Speaker 1: so high. Some team, instead of rolling the dice on

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Speaker 1: some guy that could bust out into years, is gonna

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Speaker 1: pick him at twenty two just because they know what

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Speaker 1: they're getting. It's not a sexy position. He doesn't test

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Speaker 1: really well, but you know, he's a good football player.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel that way about he and about Malachi Starks,

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Speaker 2: the safety from Georgia. Because Malachi had kind of it

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Speaker 2: down here, he had playout position. It affected his game.

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Speaker 2: He needs to be a free safety and a solot corner.

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Speaker 2: That's regardless, but the same thing. Super high character. He

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Speaker 2: was an All American for three straight years. Like players

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Speaker 2: like that don't fall. I don't care if they run

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Speaker 2: a four or five and the forty. Everything else is okay,

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Speaker 2: and in this draft especially, And that's why you know

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Speaker 2: Malachi Starks. I've put this on social media. We have

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Speaker 2: a group of players in this class that are being overthoughted,

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Speaker 2: and Malachi Starks is certainly one of those that we're

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Speaker 2: looking at it too much. Just go back to where

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Speaker 2: you thought he was in December. He's a great football player.

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Speaker 2: He should be drafted pretty high.

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Speaker 1: All right. You have Darius Alexander, and I think when

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Speaker 1: the Giants picked that defensive tackle is interesting because they

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Speaker 1: need one next to Dexter Lawrence and Ye And I

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Speaker 1: think there are what I like about this class. It's

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Speaker 1: so big and so deep. There are guys in both groups. Right,

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Speaker 1: you have the pass rushing three techs, but you also

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Speaker 1: have the run stopping you know, one shades, you know

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Speaker 1: guys like that that can play those. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of want the Giants to get one to beat. So

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Speaker 1: I guess my question for you is that which group

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Speaker 1: you think is deeper? Which one do you attack first?

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Speaker 1: Which one do you think you can wait on? How

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Speaker 1: would you approach that if you're.

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Speaker 2: The Yeah, so I think it's deeper in that like

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Speaker 2: one tech group, especially outside of the first round. You know,

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Speaker 2: if the Giants aren't gonna take Mason Graham, they're not

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Speaker 2: going to take Kenneth Grant, those two guys. And it's

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Speaker 2: funny because Michigan has like the two guys who are

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Speaker 2: the picture for each position really, so after that, it's like,

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Speaker 2: so I do think, you know, there's a way to

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Speaker 2: attack this. Like I really like Tyler Williams from Ohio State,

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Speaker 2: and I think he could be a really good one

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Speaker 2: technique you know, three hundred and twenty two pounds, he

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Speaker 2: could play in that shade. He could be disruptive there.

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Speaker 2: He's the top fifty pick probably, but he could maybe

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Speaker 2: slide a little bit past that. Josh Farmer from Florida State,

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Speaker 2: who I mentioned earlier, I think would be a really

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Speaker 2: fun one technique prospect as well. He's probably gonna go

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Speaker 2: late second, early third. So and then we get into

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Speaker 2: the third round, there's a lot of guys like Cam Jackson,

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Speaker 2: from Florida who would fit that mold Jamari Caldole from Oregon.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be a player like that. Whereas the

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Speaker 2: three techniques I feel like are going to come off

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Speaker 2: a little quick because Mason Graham's gonna go quick. Walter

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Speaker 2: Nolan is a fascinating player who's draft range is you

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Speaker 2: know the distance from me and Missouri to you in

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Speaker 2: New Jersey. Right now, it feels like so, but after that,

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Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, who are your three techniques? And I

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Speaker 2: do think that's where Larus Alexander comes in. I like

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Speaker 2: Derck Harmon two. I have him as a five technique,

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Speaker 2: like in my mind so and I just talked about

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Speaker 2: him on TV yesterday as a five technique. But I

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Speaker 2: love him as well, and I think he's a first

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Speaker 2: round pick. But it feels like a drafted is a

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Speaker 2: little light on three techniques. T J. Sanders from South

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Speaker 2: Carolina's fun, if not undersized. I like Jordan Phillips a

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Speaker 2: lot and another undersized guy. But I think we could

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Speaker 2: see the three techniques come off the board a little

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Speaker 2: bit faster.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think pass rushers always go before the run stoppers.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm with you on that. All right, you Britshward

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Speaker 1: Smith the Giants in the seventh round. He's a great

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Speaker 1: receiving back. I love Marcus Yarns too. I put in

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Speaker 1: that same category as a good receiving back. Who's your

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Speaker 1: guy that's gonna drop around four or five in this

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Speaker 1: running back class where you can get a guy that

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Speaker 1: maybe in another year might go, you know, start around three.

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Speaker 1: Just because this running back class is so deep, and

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this in your out of report that it's

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Speaker 1: so deep people might just not pick running backs to

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Speaker 1: early because the all thing they can get one later exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I have so many of these players, but RJ.

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Speaker 2: Harvey is probably my favorite non Ashton gent running back

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Speaker 2: in this class. I mean he is a little bit older,

417
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Speaker 2: former quarterback. He has so much pop empowered to this game.

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Speaker 2: Actually posted on social net. He's this year's Bucky Irving

419
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Speaker 2: to me, a guy that's being a little overanalyzed, but

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a very very good rookie starting

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Speaker 2: type running back. If he gets to the right setup,

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Speaker 2: he could be a thousand yard guy. So I love

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Speaker 2: that r J. Harvey and had some books pushed back

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Speaker 2: and be like now he's a third rounder and I

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Speaker 2: agree on greats. He absolutely is. But I think to

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Speaker 2: your point, like we could see teams weight on running back,

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Speaker 2: you know, do you need to take one in the

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Speaker 2: second round if guys are there in the fourth. But

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Speaker 2: it is such a such a deep group. I like

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Speaker 2: DJ Giddens from Kansas State a lot. It's you know,

431
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 2: kind of a powerful runner six one, two, twelve with

432
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 2: really good athletic ability. I'll continue to go to bat

433
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 2: for Jaden Blue from Texas. He had some fumble issues

434
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 2: early in his career, but he seemed to figure that

435
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 2: out second half of last and what he does is

436
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 2: a receiver out of the backfield has so much value

437
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 2: and we saw that in the college football playoffs. So

438
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 2: those are three guys I think will be Day three

439
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 2: picks that could be I mean, they could be fantastic

440
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:12,720
Speaker 2: players right out of the gate.

441
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:14,639
Speaker 1: Your other picks for the Giants and the mock and

442
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 1: you can attack these however you want. You and Barrett

443
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: Carter as a giant second third round pick. Very light

444
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 1: class on inside linebackers, so there's not a lot of

445
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,400
Speaker 1: them you could pick high. Then you have Jalen Travis,

446
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 1: who did a decent job at the senior Bowl attackle

447
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 1: I think you have been moving into guard right if

448
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. And then you have I mentioned Burschhart's

449
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: with Xavier Trust, the big Georgia offensive lineman. Take me

450
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: those those three guys and why you thought those would

451
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: be good fits in New York.

452
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think addressing linebacker, getting more speed on defense

453
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 2: is the big need. And you mentioned it. It is

454
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 2: a weak linebacker class. And so I'm going through the mock,

455
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, looking at team needs and looking at future contracts,

456
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 2: and I see Barrett Carter on the board. It was like, man,

457
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 2: this might be a little early for Giants fans to

458
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 2: the linebacker, but I love him there and a guy

459
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 2: who his career almost like declined a little bit, but

460
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: Clemson did during his career. I mean, he so productive

461
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 2: every year there. For a long time, I thought, oh,

462
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 2: this is a week side linebacker only, but I think

463
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: he could play on the inside in the three four.

464
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 2: He's going to give you that run chaseability. He's incredibly

465
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 2: smart and instinctive, so I'm a big fan of his.

466
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 2: Then you mentioned the offensive line. I'm going to continue

467
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 2: to say, like, until this offensive line gets solved, throw

468
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 2: picks at it, you know, especially when you plan in

469
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 2: that division. Now you know with how good Phillies d

470
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 2: line is every year, Dallas has Michael Parsons and oh

471
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 2: so Tgizua. Washington is very committed to their defensive line.

472
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: You know, they've drafted a lot there recently, They've brought

473
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 2: in guys. So I think you just got to continue

474
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 2: to address the offensive line with You got to take

475
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 2: swings in the bat until you can get that group

476
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: solidified up front.

477
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 1: All right, let's go to your notebook and then we'll

478
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: touch briefly on your first round grades here, Travis Hunter.

479
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: You have good notes in there about what position you

480
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: think many teams will use him at, and I think

481
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 1: the consensus is both in some way, But what does

482
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: the balance look like? How do you manage that? Like

483
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: I look at the Giants, I think if he gets

484
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: in the building, Brian Dable in an offensive coach really

485
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: going to say I'm just gonna let Hm play deepens

486
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: most of the time. I have a hard time believe

487
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 1: in that. But I actually have him greated as a

488
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: better corner than a receiver. So I'm curious what you're

489
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: hearing about how teams think they're going to use one

490
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: of the most unique prospects we've seen in a long time.

491
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 2: It varies team by teams, you know, I've talked to

492
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 2: a lot of the teams in the top five or

493
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 2: six picks, and I've heard a lot of different answers,

494
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 2: But primarily it does kind of depend on your head

495
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: coach's background. I think in Cleveland they've even come out

496
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 2: and said we see him as a wide receiver first.

497
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: I would expect the Giants would as well. I think

498
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: the Patriots would be fascinating because of Mike Rabel where

499
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: but you also have Drake May that you're trying to support.

500
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: I think in New England we might see a true

501
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty split on how Travis Hunter's played. Now,

502
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 2: how do you manage it? Early? I'm I'm fascinated by

503
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: him because I think he has like his love of

504
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: the game, his conditioning, his work ethic like it. Just

505
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: I know that we've ever seen someone like this, right

506
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: that said, going from Colorado, where on offense they just

507
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,479
Speaker 2: signaled in routes to him and he ran them. You

508
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 2: can get away with that in college. I don't know

509
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: if you can get away with that in the NFL.

510
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: And I would say this, like, we've seen so many

511
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: guys come in who are like positionless or you know,

512
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: two way type players and they've struggled. So for Travis Hunter,

513
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: I would say, get good at one thing first, because

514
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: that jump from college to the NFL is going to

515
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 2: be really, really difficult. It is for everyone. You're not

516
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: an exception to that rule, right, it's hard for every

517
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: single player who does this, Get good, get comfortable at

518
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 2: one thing first, and then sprinkle in others. I prefer

519
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 2: him at receiver because of his body type. I think

520
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: it's six foot, one hundred and eighty five pounds. I

521
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: don't want him tackling guys if he's drafted by the Giants,

522
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 2: I don't want him tackling AJ Brown. I don't want

523
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 2: him tackling Saquon Barkley. I just I don't. I don't

524
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: want that for his shoulders. And I think you have

525
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 2: an athlete in this era of the NFL, you want

526
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 2: to score points. This is an offensive driven league. I

527
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 2: don't know that I would want to take the ball

528
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: out of his hands watching just how electric is a receiver.

529
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: And to your point, if you want to say, hey,

530
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: I think he could be a top five corner in

531
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 2: the NFL. I agree with you. I think you could too.

532
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: But I also think he could be a top five

533
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 2: receiver in the NFL, and I would It's funny because

534
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: it's easier to find a great receiver. You know, we

535
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: see it every year, but a great receiver on a

536
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 2: rookie contract saves you like thirty million dollars a year.

537
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,959
Speaker 2: And so I would say, like positional value receiver is

538
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 2: maybe the third most or fourth most important position to

539
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 2: have on a rookie contract right now. In Corner may

540
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: be the very next one, but I would push him

541
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 2: more to play wide receiver.

542
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: Fair enough, all right, Now, I'm going to kind of

543
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: get your intel on what you're hearing around the league,

544
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: and I'm going to relate it back to your your

545
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: first round list. Year. We kind of talked about not

546
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: a lot of first ground grades in this draft. You

547
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: had fourteen, if I'm not mistaken correct on you.

548
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, which is low.

549
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is low usually. I think last year I

550
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: was I had a lot last year. I was thinking

551
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: around twenty four last year, just.

552
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: Because I think I was eighteen to twenty.

553
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a really good first round and I'm

554
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: less this year. I'm curious we're different on our list

555
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: because I have a little bit more than you, but

556
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: not a ton quarterbacks. I'm surprised you don't have cam

557
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: Ward with the first round grade because I have him

558
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: a bit above where I had JJ McCarthy last year.

559
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: I think you have him at below where you had

560
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: McCarthy last year.

561
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: Correct, it's very close, and I'm looking on my screen

562
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: right now. It's very close. I think I had JJ

563
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 2: at ninety two. I'll have Cam at ninety one. So

564
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: it was close, and it's above Pinnix and it's above Knicks.

565
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: But he's my number fourteen player, so he was like

566
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 2: he was basically the line.

567
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: Very interesting, Okay, and then the other quarterbacks are me

568
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: by the way, do you do you have Shador closer

569
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: to Jackson daughter or do you have Shador or whoever

570
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: your third quarterback is maybe it's not Dart or do

571
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: you have him closer to Ward?

572
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: I have a little closer to Ward. I have Shador

573
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: right now as my number twenty two overall player. I'm

574
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 2: Jackson Dart at like thirty eight, so they're almost like

575
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: splitting each other.

576
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm a big Tyler Shuk guy. By the way,

577
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: I've chosen to ignore the injuries in the age because

578
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: he's a quarterback. I'm sure I'm gonna regret that. I

579
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: just loved his tape this year so much I can't

580
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: get my head past it.

581
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: That's good. I mean, the Senior Bowl was fantastic. And

582
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: I told this story before. I had a scout and

583
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: grabbed me at the Senior Bowl and said that expletive

584
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: is gonna go a lot higher than you think. And

585
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 2: he pointed at Tyler Shuck and I was like, really,

586
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: he was like top fifty. And at the time that

587
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, top fifty. You know, now

588
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 2: you'd be like, yeah, of course, But in late January

589
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: that was that was pretty surprising.

590
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: Now I'm with you, all right, So you're only running

591
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: back asking genty, I'm with you. I see a level

592
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: between him and Omari and Hampton. We're on the same page.

593
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: Any special man. I don't know how people. I mean,

594
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: he's just really, really good. I don't care he didn't test.

595
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 1: We talked about Hunter and Burden already, all right. So

596
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: Tech McMillan was interesting because I've I talked to people

597
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: about tech. McMillan is no one in this building and

598
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: they give me like this weird nebulous sense of maybe

599
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: there's something with when you talk to him. It's not

600
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: all there and they worry about some things. But his

601
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: taped really good. What do you think things you hear

602
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: about tech McMillan, Because you know you talked about the

603
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: draft range on Walter Nolan. I think the draft range

604
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: on Teed McMillan's also very big. I know some people

605
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: to the sixth best player. Some people have him at

606
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: the end of the first round.

607
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I had him going six of my seven

608
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 2: or mock draft, and it was basically like the Raiders

609
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 2: have no receivers. It wasn't based on my value, it

610
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: was just based on I did this on NFL Live.

611
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: I was like, can anyone named the Raiders' top three

612
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: receivers coming back for next year? Not not Rock Bowers

613
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: right hop through receivers, No, So they I look at

614
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: technicc millan and I won't to speak to the personality

615
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: stuff because I haven't spoken to him, and I really

616
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: try to avoid that, you know, of like I haven't

617
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: I haven't sat down with him, So I'm not going

618
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: to say whether or not he's you know, it's clicking

619
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: or not on tape. I thought he had it down here.

620
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: Some of that goes to Noah Fafiita, it goes to

621
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: a new head coach. Obviously a lot of issues there.

622
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: You know, I worry a little bit about when a

623
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: player has so many contested catches. My first thought is

624
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: can you separate? And that is the thing for me,

625
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: and you know, the PRODA forty time the protac I

626
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: think he came in at four or five five, which

627
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: you know that probably means about a four to six,

628
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: which is good enough at six foot four two fifteen.

629
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: But you know, there's some drops this year that popped

630
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: up that hadn't been a thing before, so it did

631
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: kind of seem like his concentration was down a little bit.

632
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: But man, he's he's incredibly productive the last te years.

633
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: I haven't missed my number eighteen overall player. I do

634
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: feel like on social media people are like, oh, you

635
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: hate him, No, I really don't. I have the eighteen

636
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: o'verraw out of like nine hundred players. I really really

637
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: like him. I just I do have some concerns about

638
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: you know, he's going to need to be able to

639
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: get into a scheme where they can get him open

640
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: a little bit. I would love to see, like in

641
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 2: twenty three, I felt like he ran more slants and

642
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: he ran more like middle of the field screens, and

643
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: they tried to just get him the ball a little

644
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: bit more creatively, and I'd liked his game better there

645
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: instead of just being this guy who's like, hey, just

646
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: go down the field, we'll throw it up to you.

647
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: Because he is kind of short armed for being six

648
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: foot four, and despite the fact that he's a great leaper,

649
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: he has great vertical skills. I mean, there were there

650
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: were some drops, there were some issue and I think

651
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: a lot of those contesting catches in college are going

652
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: to become incompletions in the NFL when you have size

653
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: and speed at every corner in safety position. If you

654
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: want to know how to manage two minutes of crunch

655
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 2: time football, I'm your man. But if you're wondering about

656
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: a long term financial plan, you should talk to Citizens. Hey,

657
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: I can also talk long care. I'd like to learn

658
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: about a milling routine. Yes, I knew I could help

659
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: makes sense of your money with Citizens.

660
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. What makes me suspicious is that no one can

661
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: have really put the finger on it for me with

662
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: McMillan on why, and that makes me say, maybe there

663
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: isn't really anything there. I'm not trying to put anything

664
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: out into the other there. Like you, I've not talked

665
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: to the kid, and he could be the best kid

666
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: in the world. I have no idea. I'm just trying

667
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: to figure out and what makes me a little bit

668
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: higher on him met And you're right, you don't see

669
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: a ton of separation. But he's so quick with the

670
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: ball in his hands after he catches it, and there's

671
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: a guy that if at that weight, I feel like,

672
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: if he's at that type of wiggle with the ball,

673
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: he should be able to figure out the stuff at

674
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: the top of the route because he's got it inside

675
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: him a little bit, you know.

676
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: And that's where I get back to the twenty three tape,

677
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: the first game of Hit I ever watched, like tape

678
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: I ever watched. He catches this middle of the field

679
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: screen and he like shakes two guys and then he

680
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: picks up like twelve yards and it's like, okay, like

681
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: that agility. I didn't see it in twenty four, but

682
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: it's there, and I do think it goes back to

683
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: some of like Jed Fish being gone, What did that

684
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: do to this offense? And I hope, Hopeing becomes Drake

685
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: London because I will always love a big bodied receiver, right.

686
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 2: It's such a creat when you have a guy that

687
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: can just be that for you. But I'm a little bit,

688
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: I guess, I don't even want to say skeptical. I

689
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: have my doubts, you know, and that's the same with

690
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: every player, but I think with his they're a little

691
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: more pronounced for me.

692
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: And by the way, I think if you made me bet,

693
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: i'd say he's probably more like a really good number

694
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: two a la Ti Higgins than he is a number one, which,

695
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: by the way, he has just got thirty million dollars.

696
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 1: That's not a bad guy to be, all right, tight ends.

697
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: I have these guys right on the edge of my

698
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: true first round grades level. And then Warren. I don't

699
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: think Warren's as good of an athlete as a lot

700
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: of people tend to disc him as. And I think

701
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 1: him not testing I think probably shows that. I think

702
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: he has a lot of willingness and want as a blocker,

703
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: but I think he also had a lot of misses

704
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: as a blocker this year at Penn State. But I

705
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: love his size, I love his ability to run the

706
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: seam and straight ahead ability and stuff like that. And

707
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: then Loveland is just your classic, you know, f move

708
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: tight end like he reminds me Adult King Kate a lot.

709
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: When we saw him a couple of years ago, they

710
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: where he if. I wish the Bills used him a

711
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: little bit more, but if you put Level in the

712
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: right situation, he could be a real big weapon in

713
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: the past game.

714
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I'm I know I'm different from

715
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: my colleagues at ESPN. I haven't seen a consensus across

716
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: draft media, but I have close to Level it as

717
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: my top tight end, and I know that's a little

718
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: bit of an outlier. I'm with you. I think he's

719
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: Sam Laporta. I love his ability to move. I watched

720
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: him at the Michigan Pro Day in twenty twenty four

721
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: when J. J. McCarthy threw to him and fell in love.

722
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: And then you watch his tape and I know he

723
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: was banged up this year, but you watch his tape

724
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: the last two years and like he can do everything.

725
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: He really does. He's an underrated blocker. He can line

726
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: up anywhere you could ever want him too. He runs

727
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: routes like a wide receiver. Like I'm just such a

728
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: big fan of his. I actually think to your point,

729
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: I think Closton Loveland is who a lot of people

730
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: think Tyler Warren is, you know, like it's like he's

731
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: the better athlete, he's the better blocker. Now I love

732
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: I like Tyler Warren so much as well. He's my

733
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: number nine overall player, really really like him. They're different guys,

734
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: you know, like they almost it's almost like they play

735
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: different positions. First time I watched Tyler Warren, I was

736
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: shocked at how big he was because I thought he

737
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: moved like a guy who was six foot three, you know,

738
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: I thought he was brock Bauer size because of how

739
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: agile he was and the fact that he like it's

740
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: almost the Travis Kelsey thing where he's not that fast,

741
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: but he runs away from people and you're kind of wondering, like,

742
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: how the hell is he getting away with this? But

743
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: he just he doesn't so consistently that you know, it's

744
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: a true attribute of his. The USC game is one

745
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: of the best games I've ever seen a tight end play.

746
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: And I know he was force fed the ball, but

747
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: I love the the different ways that he can attack

748
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: a defense. So I'm a big, big fan of both

749
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: guys and and I think they could They could each

750
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: be a number one receiver if if drafted to a

751
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: team that has that need.

752
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: All right, and we're on the same page on the

753
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: offensive lineman, you're saying three first round grades are my

754
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: three same ones. I have one more though, and maybe

755
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: I'm being a little lenient with the injury. Josh Shimman's

756
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: tape is so good. Man, Like if I'm looking there

757
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: at like fifteen and he's sitting there and I know

758
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: he's coming off, and it's more than an ACL, it's

759
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a Potell attendant, which is

760
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: going to be more serious. But man, like his one

761
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: handed punch. When you watch tape, he's just swatting guys

762
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: away with like his inside arm. And I'm like, man,

763
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: when this guy gets healthy, he might be If he

764
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: was healthy, man, he could be a top five to

765
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: six player in this class. Easy.

766
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could have ben if And I thought when

767
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: he you know, mid October, when he went down, I

768
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: thought he was playing better than any left tackle in

769
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: college football. And I like to tape the athleticism like

770
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: he's the he's the athlete at left tackle where you

771
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: don't worry about some of the things you do with

772
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: Kelvin Banks or Will Campbell. But again, the Petella injury

773
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,959
Speaker 2: is tough, and I know he's he's already working out

774
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: and doing some stuff, so that's a good sign. He's

775
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: another one of those guys that's hard to get a

776
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: read on because he was at San Diego State then

777
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: he goes to Ohio State. So that's something that you know,

778
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: I've heard mixed opinions on in terms of the character

779
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: and the work ethic and are you what kind of

780
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: what kind of buy in are you going to get

781
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: from Josh Simmons. So that's something that I know. He

782
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: was at the Senior Bowl when we were there. I

783
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: don't know if you knew this, not as a participant.

784
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: He wasn't in the Senior Bowl rosters, but he was

785
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: in mobile doing interviews with teams. I've heard of this

786
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: happening in my fifteen years doing this. It's usually a

787
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: player getting ahead of something like a report of Hey,

788
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: like school wasn't sure about to buy in. We need

789
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: to get ahead of this. So I think with Josh Simmons,

790
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: if we see him go top fifteen. You and I

791
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: can talk in May and your listeners. We could talk

792
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: and be like, okay, there's nothing to that. If he

793
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 2: goes in the late twenties, then maybe there's a little

794
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: bit more to some of the buzz that's happening.

795
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: That's interesting, all right. The edge class is interesting. You

796
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: have Quartern Jalen Walker. Those are my two top edges

797
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: as well. To see how the teams use Walker, because

798
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: I think you can get maybe a little too creative

799
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: with him and you might hurt him. Yeah, too much,

800
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: too early. But he's really really good whatever you ask

801
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: him to do. And my understanding is that kid's going

802
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: to be like the CEO of a company one day.

803
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: He's just like a not human being. Now I'm curious

804
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: he did not get any other edge player up. And

805
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: it's funny. I had this conversation a couple weeks ago.

806
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: I forget with who it was, and that next group

807
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: of edge players, every one of them have something you

808
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: can point to that makes you think twice, right, Michael

809
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: played with the Injury production, Shamar Stewart production, Mike Green

810
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: the Transfer. Right, He's not the biggest guy as a Rocky,

811
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: not the biggest guy. So is that why none of

812
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: those guys in that next group managed to show me

813
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: their way into a first round grade? There was just

814
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: one thing that was kind of holding them back.

815
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: It's exactly that you took the words out of my mouth.

816
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: It's it is that one, one or two things for

817
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 2: each of those guys. And you know, I really challenged

818
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: myself this year to not buy into hype on players.

819
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: You know, I really want to stick to my grade

820
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: and what I saw and like the work that I've done,

821
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: and like Mikel Williams, you know, I'm a bit of

822
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: Texas fan my entire life. You watch Michael Williams of Texas,

823
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 2: you think he's be a top three pick. You watch

824
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: him against everyone else and you're like, where was he?

825
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 2: Like what happened to this guy?

826
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: You know?

827
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: So and you know Samul Schimark Stewart, it's one and

828
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: a half sacks each of the last three seasons. And

829
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: you can say, like, oh, the scheme asked me to

830
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: do certain things, but not all Like you still have

831
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: to rush the quarterback in the SEC. That's still asked

832
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: of you. And his run defense wasn't that good either.

833
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: So if they were asking him to you know, stack

834
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: and stack up the run. I didn't love his tape

835
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: there either. Now the potential of those guys is just astronomical. Israku.

836
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 2: The production is amazing, but he's so undersized that it's

837
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: almost like you have to go to a three four

838
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: team almost, you know, to be an outside linebacker. Mike Green,

839
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 2: you've got to transfer the character. James Pearce, You've got

840
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: the character and also lack of size. So all those

841
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: guys who will you know, could very well into be

842
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: top thirty two picks. I just wasn't comfortable saying this

843
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: is one of my first round guys, you know, like

844
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: if we have those questions, I don't want to put

845
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: a kind of an elite grade on you as a player.

846
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: Of those guys, which one has the best chance of

847
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: cracking into the late of that top ten with the

848
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: team picking them because of what they could be.

849
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 2: I mean, Shamar Stewart just because the freakish athletic ability,

850
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: you know, despite the lack of production. Just I mean,

851
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: he looks like Miles Garrett did coming out just without

852
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: the production, which is an important part of the equation, right.

853
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: But I think someone we see it every year, someone

854
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: falls in love with Hey, we can mold this, and

855
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 2: whether it be a quarterback or a pass rusher, they're

856
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: so valuable that you almost take that chance if you

857
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 2: get it.

858
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have Mason Graham is your only defensive tackle.

859
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: I would maybe slide Derreck Harmon in there. But we

860
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: talked about that linebacker, joh Campbell. Is it because you're

861
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: not sure how team's going to use him? Because it's funny.

862
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: But I always tell this, tell people when I explained

863
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: Ghi Campbell to them. You're at the combine, and you

864
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: know they put all the linebackers up in podiums next

865
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: to each other. And I always play this game with

866
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: my daughter. You know, you show a group of pictures

867
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: which one of these don't belong? And John camp was

868
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: the one that didn't belong. Twenty pounds bigger and just

869
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: a monster compared to like, you know, Demetri's Knight is

870
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: a really good football player. He's sitting there like two

871
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five pounds and John Campbell looks like

872
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: he's atally different position. So what was it that kep?

873
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: I know he was. I think he was like the

874
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: first guy out right he was. Yeah, So why did

875
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: you not feel comfortable about Campbell with a first round pick.

876
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know, you know, I love Jalen Walker

877
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: and so understand there's a little hypocrisy in this, But

878
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: I think it is just that how do you use

879
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: him at the next level, because I think as an

880
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: awful linebacker, the instincts need developed and that's not always

881
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: something that gets developed. Sometimes that's say you have it

882
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: or you don't. Still that I've been I've been burned

883
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: by athletic linebackers in the past who never developed that

884
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 2: read and reactability, as has the NFL. The way, you know,

885
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: it's a hard thing to project. So with Campbell, if

886
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: you told me, like, hey, he's going to be a

887
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: three to four rush backer, I would probably grate him

888
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: a little higher, you know, than I do as a

889
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: true linebacker. But he also has very limited experience as

890
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: a pass rusher. You know, a lot of his pass

891
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: rusher production was on blitzes and on him kind of

892
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: pulling the chain as a spy on quarterback. So it's

893
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: he's he is a true project and ever since the

894
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: word and if you'll notice, I have a lot of

895
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 2: those guys group together like Campbell. Uh uh. We talked

896
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: about Michael Walliam, Shamark Stewart. I have a lot of

897
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 2: those guys together because I like them and I love

898
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: the potential, but they are definitely there's some gamble there.

899
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Kenneth Murray, Devin Bush line of athletic linebackers long, Yeah,

900
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: because they just don't have the instincts.

901
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: One with jam and Davis that was a first rounder

902
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: by Washington that never panned out. Yeah.

903
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm with you Corners, Will Johnson, Joddy, Barron, Will Johnson,

904
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: I've been on all our program fans, I need here

905
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: to talk about it again. I have my worries with

906
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: him on just allowing too many catches and not being

907
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: sticky enough. Baron I love and by the way, I

908
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: know some people see him as a slot. I think

909
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 1: he was better outside at Syracuse than he wasn't the slot.

910
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for for baroness like, if you want

911
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: to play slot, okay, be Trent mcguffee. But I think

912
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: he'll end up on the outside. You know, he was

913
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 2: so good and just to watch his development down there,

914
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: you know, over the years, to go from even playing

915
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: safety and playing slots playing outside the past this past year,

916
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 2: if I think five picks like twelve pvus. He was amazing,

917
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: you know, and that that whole defense at Taxas stepped

918
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: up this year. He was a huge, huge part of that.

919
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: So and Will Johnson. You know, I watched him and

920
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: I think, how many business decisions is this guy making?

921
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: Because he's known since he was a freshman he was

922
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: gonna be a first round pick, and so you know,

923
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: you see what they're tackling At times. I think he

924
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: likes to play off and try to bait quarterbacks and

925
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 2: the mistakes. It's gonna have to clean some of that

926
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: up to the next level. But he's he's been so

927
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: good anytime he's been out there.

928
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: All right, final one here safety. We talked about Malaco

929
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: Starks already. I think he was I think the second

930
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: guy out looking in on the top on your first

931
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: round grades. Why no, Nick emmin Ware with all the

932
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 1: ship boxes he checks, by the way, not just testing.

933
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: He's a heck of a football player too. What was

934
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: it on the that made you think twice?

935
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was close. I had him as a he

936
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 2: was my number seventeen overall player. I think it is

937
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: just like I see some hesitation in his game and

938
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: I've talked to teams that saw the same thing, and

939
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 2: they've even said, we think he'll be a weak side

940
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 2: linebacker because of some of those hesitations and coverage. Like

941
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: you want him just attacking. That's what he does best.

942
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 2: I mean's six three, two twenty. He ran a four

943
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: to four. You want that guy attacking. But some of

944
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: those you know, delays in seeing it and going to

945
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: do it, And that could just be he's a true junior.

946
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: He's inexperienced, especially in this era of college football. That

947
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: could come with reps that could be no issue. But

948
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: that was the reason for keeping him out all right.

949
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 1: Final question, if there's one thing Giant fans match should

950
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: know about this draft before we get to at the

951
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: end of April that they should mentally prepare themselves for,

952
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: what should it be?

953
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: I think that is a much deeper draft than it

954
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: has been sold to. So much talk during the fall

955
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 2: was that this is not a good draft class it is.

956
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: It's just light on elite players at the top, it's

957
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: light on blue chip players. It is strong in around two, three, four,

958
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: and even you know Day three and I can't wait

959
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: to get to Green Bay to cover Day three. There

960
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: are a lot of really good college football players who

961
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: are going to go on Day three. They're going to

962
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: be contributors in the NFL. So don't fall asleep on

963
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 2: this draft just because somebody said in November it's not

964
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: a good draft class. It absolutely is. And your team

965
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 2: still has picks they got to use. So let's find

966
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: out whose players are and get excited about the future.

967
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: Matt, Tell the folks where they can find everything you're

968
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: up to in anything you want them to know.

969
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hey, ESPN dot Com. I feel like every day

970
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 2: right now, some new piece of content is coming out,

971
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: so and I just I just learned this, John, someone

972
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: told me they didn't know. If you have Disney Plus,

973
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: like for your kids to watch TV, you can actually

974
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 2: read all of our articles. If you have Disney Plus,

975
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: if you're paying for that to watch cartoons and stuff,

976
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 2: get on ESPN dot com read our articles. You're paying

977
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: for it, so get on there and read it.

978
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: You can, and it's great stuff. You Jordan Mel, you

979
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: guys do a great job. Field Gates, your drafting is

980
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: really second in on that. We appreciate the time. Thanks

981
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: so much. Enjoyce yourr standards pro day. Enjoy the rest

982
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: of the process and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks man,

983
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: Matt Miller from ESPN. That's the Johnsto Podcast, brought to

984
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: you by citizens Official Bank of the Giants. From the

985
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: Hacket Zach Moriney Hill podcast, Dodo, keep getting better. We'll

986
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: see it next time. Everybody,