Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. What
Speaker 1: role does music play in influencing paranormal activity? Not just music,
Speaker 1: but a vivacious social scene or bar. I've experimented with
Speaker 1: this actually years ago. While investigating a bar, we were
Speaker 1: told that after hours, particularly on nights where Live's music
Speaker 1: had been played in the venue, were always the most
Speaker 1: active times ghost Twice we experimented with that. We invited
Speaker 1: a Lives band to play during the investigation, and during
Speaker 1: their set we ran all sorts of equipment and kept
Speaker 1: tabs on our surroundings. Sure enough, we captured anomalies and activity.
Speaker 1: Perhaps most telling, once the band had packed up and
Speaker 1: left and we returned to the room to investigate, the
Speaker 1: jukebox turned off by itself, and the credit card machines
Speaker 1: started spitting out blank receipt paper for no reason. Imagine
Speaker 1: working under those circumstances every night. Needless to say, my
Speaker 1: interest in this phenomenon was peaud and there's perhaps no
Speaker 1: better place to explore such a theory than Bobby Mackie's
Speaker 1: Music World. I'm Amy Bruney, and this is Haunted Road. Wilder, Kentucky,
Speaker 1: sits just across the Ohio River from Cincinnati. The small
Speaker 1: town of about three thousand people has only been formally
Speaker 1: incorporated for about ninety years. Before that, it was part
Speaker 1: of a nearby town called Newport. In the eighteenth century,
Speaker 1: Newport was known for its crime, and in particular for
Speaker 1: its ties to organized crime. This was a region that
Speaker 1: upstanding citizens avoided because it promised trouble. These days, if
Speaker 1: motorists pull off of the four lane Licking Road and Wilder,
Speaker 1: they'll see what looks like an abandoned shack. It has
Speaker 1: a false brick front, while the other three walls are white,
Speaker 1: sighting train tracks cut behind it with the Licking River
Speaker 1: behind them. The structure is dark, windowless, and doesn't even
Speaker 1: have a paved parking lot. Visitors can park in the
Speaker 1: patch of white gravel off to the side. But in
Speaker 1: spite of its ominous appearance, this business called Bobby Mackie's
Speaker 1: Music World is still in operation. If you're brave enough
Speaker 1: to enter. The interior decor hints at its colorful past.
Speaker 1: A dive bar with pool tables and a mechanical bowl
Speaker 1: operates alongside a gift shop The black floor features a
Speaker 1: faded logo for the Latin Quarter, a former nightclub that
Speaker 1: used to operate in this building. Dim lights barely illuminate
Speaker 1: the red and black ceiling or the sign behind the
Speaker 1: small stage that reads America's honky Tonk. The basement is
Speaker 1: even more eerie. Visitors have to walk over plywood walkways
Speaker 1: that stretch across crumbling, broken concrete flooring. The walls are
Speaker 1: wooden planks dotted with bullet holes. In a back corner,
Speaker 1: behind wooden barriers, an eighteen inch tall stone circular structure
Speaker 1: rises from the floor. This is an old well, but
Speaker 1: it's anyone's guess exactly how old it is. Some rumors
Speaker 1: suggest it dates to at least eighteen ninety seven, when
Speaker 1: it offered water to the community. Others suggest it's from
Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century. Rumors say the building used to
Speaker 1: be a slaughter house and the cistern collected blood from
Speaker 1: butchered animals, and some less colorful speculation, like that of
Speaker 1: Dan Smith riding for Haunted America, says the well was
Speaker 1: part of a tunnel system that captured and directed water
Speaker 1: from the nearby Licking River. Asher Albine of the Bitter
Speaker 1: Southerner wrote that there are many rumors that Satanists once
Speaker 1: use the well in some kind of ritual sacrifice. Albeing
Speaker 1: also noted that the gossip is almost certainly untrue, but
Speaker 1: that hasn't stopped even wilder stories from flying, including one
Speaker 1: claim that the well isn't opening into hell. And the
Speaker 1: signs and advertisements throughout Bobby Mackie's Music World demonstrate that
Speaker 1: the current owners have embraced their haunted reputation. Before anyone
Speaker 1: can even set foot inside, they'll spot an outdoor sign
Speaker 1: that says Bobby Mackie's another right underneath it announces that
Speaker 1: visitors can book two hour ghost tours, and inside postings
Speaker 1: feature language like this establishment is reported to be haunted.
Speaker 1: Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for
Speaker 1: any actions of any ghost spirits on these premises. For
Speaker 1: all the bars ghostly marketing, The region's eerie reputation predates
Speaker 1: Bobby Mackie's by about a century. In January eighteen ninety six,
Speaker 1: a twenty three year old woman named Pearl Brian arrived
Speaker 1: in Newport, Kentucky. A few of her friends or family
Speaker 1: members knew the real reason she left her home in
Speaker 1: Greencastle Indiana. She told them she was visiting a friend,
Speaker 1: but in reality, she was about five months pregnant. It's
Speaker 1: believed she was seeking an illegal abortion, or, as suggested
Speaker 1: in Eric Burnsey's article with the banner graphic, she was
Speaker 1: tracking down the birth father to demand he marry her.
Speaker 1: Whatever her plan, it didn't work out. Soon after her
Speaker 1: arrival on February first, Pearl was found dead in an orchard.
Speaker 1: The ground around her corpse was soaked in blood, and
Speaker 1: her head was missing. Given the sheer amount of blood,
Speaker 1: coroners speculated that she was still living when her murderer
Speaker 1: decapitated her. Understandably, any gruesome story like this will draw attention,
Speaker 1: and Pearl Brian's murder was splashed across newspapers. The police
Speaker 1: worked quickly, and their investigation eventually led them to two men,
Speaker 1: Scott Jackson and his roommate Alonzo Walling. Scott was believed
Speaker 1: to be Pearl's lover, and he was enrolled in a
Speaker 1: dental school in nearby Cincinnati. It would have been relatively
Speaker 1: easy for him to travel across the river to kill
Speaker 1: Pearl and dump her body. When police questioned Scott, he
Speaker 1: claimed he was helping Pearl secure an abortion as a
Speaker 1: favor for a friend the baby's actual father. As Robert
Speaker 1: Wilhelm recorded on the Murder by Gaslight web page The
Speaker 1: Mysteries of Pearl Brian, Scott claimed his roommate Alonzo was
Speaker 1: supposed to help get Pearl to and from the abortion appointment.
Speaker 1: Scott claimed Alonzo killed Pearl when the procedure went wrong. Alonso,
Speaker 1: in turn, suggested Scott always meant to murder Pearl rather
Speaker 1: than get her medical treatment. Each suspect protested his innocence
Speaker 1: while incriminating the other, but the hard evidence didn't look
Speaker 1: good for either accused man. Both Alonzo and Scott were
Speaker 1: seen with Pearl the night of her murder, and, according
Speaker 1: to one horse cab driver, men fitting their descriptions escorted
Speaker 1: a clearly unwell woman across the river from Ohio to Kentucky.
Speaker 1: A bartender also assured the police he saw Scott drug
Speaker 1: Pearls drink that evening. Albert Vinton Stegmann Junior reported a
Speaker 1: particularly disturbing detail on a web page titled Pearl Brian Murder.
Speaker 1: He writes that during the night, Scott and Alonso went
Speaker 1: into a tavern carrying a red leather valus that had
Speaker 1: once belonged to Pearl. They asked the bartender to hold
Speaker 1: onto the item for them, and when he picked it up,
Speaker 1: he was surprised at how heavy it was. He speculated
Speaker 1: that the bag held a bowling ball, but later, when
Speaker 1: police found the vallas stained with blood, they suspected it
Speaker 1: actually held Pearl's head. It's not clear what became of
Speaker 1: her head after that, because it was never recovered. Some
Speaker 1: speculate the killer tossed it into the Ohio River or
Speaker 1: burned it in a furnace at the dental school, but
Speaker 1: another popular theory is that he threw it down a well,
Speaker 1: the same well that now sits in Bobby Mackie's Music
Speaker 1: World's basement. Either way, the witness's testimony was enough for
Speaker 1: the courts to sentence both men to death. They were
Speaker 1: hanged together on March twentieth, eighteen ninety seven. Even on
Speaker 1: the gallows, each man protested the execution as a miscarriage
Speaker 1: of justice. Indianapolis's The Sunday Journal reports that just before
Speaker 1: he was killed, Alonzo Walling declared, you are about to
Speaker 1: take the life of an innocent man. I call upon
Speaker 1: God to be my witness. There are also rumors which
Speaker 1: I have not been able to verify that one or
Speaker 1: both men warned that if they were unjustly executed, they'd
Speaker 1: remain in the town as ghosts haunting their killers. Sure enough,
Speaker 1: after the hanging, a series of strange and inexplicable disasters
Speaker 1: struck the area. In eighteen seventy six, a distillery was
Speaker 1: built on the land where Bobby Mackie's Music World stands. Now,
Speaker 1: thirty years after it opened its doors, it caught fire. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: a bridge over the Licking River was constructed nearby. Before
Speaker 1: the builders could finish their work, it collapsed, taking thirty
Speaker 1: one lives. The string of bad luck persisted throughout the
Speaker 1: twentieth century. Numerous pubs and clubs opened and closed on
Speaker 1: the site. These decades were marked by barroom brawls that
Speaker 1: turned deadly, brutal mafia hits, and fatal shootouts. I could
Speaker 1: go on and on about the various murders and suicides
Speaker 1: that struck the patrons and owners of these businesses, but
Speaker 1: in the interest of time, let's move ahead to April
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, That is when Linda and the eponymous
Speaker 1: Bobby Mackie bought the bar. Bobby was a musician and
Speaker 1: may have wanted to open a venue for country performers,
Speaker 1: but it didn't take long for disaster to strike yet again.
Speaker 1: Bobby and Linda were mid renovation when a fire broke
Speaker 1: out at Music World. Numerous stories in the Cincinnati Inquirer
Speaker 1: emphasized that there was no clear cause for the blaze.
Speaker 1: The fire pushed back Music World's opening days several months
Speaker 1: to October twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight. After that, the
Speaker 1: bar proved to be such a success, Bobby tried opening
Speaker 1: another establishment just next door, but the land he purchased
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two suddenly ripped apart as a two
Speaker 1: hundred foot chasm appeared out of nowhere. For context, that's
Speaker 1: the length of a twenty story building, and it was
Speaker 1: determined that Bobby couldn't possibly build there. Five more years
Speaker 1: passed and another fire struck the original bar. This time
Speaker 1: the cause was clear. A customer set the structure alight
Speaker 1: after a confrontation with a waitress about bringing in outside beer. Luckily,
Speaker 1: no one was hurt in the blaze, but it did
Speaker 1: reek thousands of dollars in damages. In spite of all
Speaker 1: these omens, Bobby Mackie didn't cement its reputation as a
Speaker 1: haunted location until the early nineties. Asher Albin wrote about
Speaker 1: how ghost stories become a fundamental part of the bar's
Speaker 1: identity on his page Honky Tonk Haunts on the Bitter
Speaker 1: Southerner website. He says Bobby knew his employee Karl Lawson
Speaker 1: often heard footsteps and got the eerie feeling he was
Speaker 1: being watched even when he was alone. He was so
Speaker 1: unnerved by these incidents he slept with a gun in
Speaker 1: his bed and propped his door closed. Bobby had previously
Speaker 1: warned Carl not to mention the eerie's supernatural encounters, as
Speaker 1: he found them disturbing, but one night Bobby struck up
Speaker 1: a conversation about them with Karl and a regular customer
Speaker 1: and horror writer named Doug Hensley. Doug grew increasingly fascinated
Speaker 1: and begged the two men to tell him everything about
Speaker 1: the hauntings of Bobby Mackie's. Finally, they relented, and Doug
Speaker 1: took careful notes on each story they told him. In
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, he published their accounts in a book
Speaker 1: titled Terror at Music World. The bestseller instantly rocketed Doug, Carl,
Speaker 1: Bobby and the Bar to fame. The book inspired countless
Speaker 1: new reports about spectral encounters at Music World. Carl claims
Speaker 1: he performed an exorcism in the kitchen, which only brought
Speaker 1: temporary relief from paranormal incidents. Other guests reported fireballs, unnatural
Speaker 1: swarms of yellow jackets and bats, and, as Douglas Hensley
Speaker 1: wrote in Hell's Gates, Terror at Bobby Mackie's Music World,
Speaker 1: the ceilings are said to bleed onto the walls. These
Speaker 1: accounts even created legal trouble for Bobby. In nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 1: one of his customers sued him on the grounds that
Speaker 1: a ghost had attacked him in the bathroom. The bar's
Speaker 1: lawyer didn't take the claim seriously. His motion to dismiss
Speaker 1: was written in rhyming couplets. The final line declared the
Speaker 1: plaintiff can always pursue his torte upon his death. In
Speaker 1: a higher court. A judge dismissed the lawsuit before it
Speaker 1: could go to trial. Now we can debate how many
Speaker 1: of these reports are true and how much of it
Speaker 1: is savvy marketing. But even if Bobby and Carl exaggerated
Speaker 1: some of the bar's history, there are numerous verified sightings
Speaker 1: within its walls. Reports suggest the jukebox often plays the
Speaker 1: anniversary song even when it's unplugged and off. Strangest of all,
Speaker 1: the anniversary song was never programmed into it as a selection,
Speaker 1: and some unseen presence has a tendency to toss bottles
Speaker 1: across the room and knock furniture over. Some visitors have
Speaker 1: spotted a specter they believe is a former owner named
Speaker 1: Buck Brady. He briefly operated the bar, then called the
Speaker 1: Primrose Country Club in later the Latin Quarter, until the
Speaker 1: mafia wrested control from him. It said he cursed the
Speaker 1: establishment before later taking his own life. Now, a figure
Speaker 1: that looks exactly like his old photographs remains at Music World.
Speaker 1: The Cincinnati Post also features descriptions of a figure that
Speaker 1: appears to be half man and half goat stalking the premises.
Speaker 1: Of course, many narratives feature the three doomed souls who
Speaker 1: kicked off the many disasters in Newport and the surrounding area,
Speaker 1: Pearl Brian, and the two men who were convicted of
Speaker 1: killing her. Many visitors have seen her headless ghost wandering
Speaker 1: through Music World, both the bar itself and the basement.
Speaker 1: A psychic also claims to have made contact with her spirit.
Speaker 1: It's possible that Bobby Mackie's wife, Janet had an ominous
Speaker 1: encounter with Pearl when she was reportedly five months pregnant.
Speaker 1: As she was on the stairs, unseen hands pushed her.
Speaker 1: It said. The fall may have made her give birth prematurely.
Speaker 1: Janet never identified the spirit, but it's hard to ignore
Speaker 1: the parallels between the two two women who were both
Speaker 1: at the same stage of their pregnancy. Janet suffered through
Speaker 1: other aggressive incidents too. Elbin reports that Janet complained of
Speaker 1: hostile energies at Music World, and she said a spirit
Speaker 1: pushed her against a sink that seemed to be filling
Speaker 1: with blood. All these encounters were enough that Janet eventually
Speaker 1: refused to go inside of Music World. She never reversed
Speaker 1: her stance up until her two thousand and nine death.
Speaker 1: Guests have also interacted with Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling,
Speaker 1: who were executed for Pearl's murder. Employee Carl Lawson claims
Speaker 1: that he has seen the image of a scaffold with
Speaker 1: bodies hanging from it in the basement. In the Richmond Register,
Speaker 1: Taylor six writes of an apparition with a handlebar mustache
Speaker 1: who appears in the men's bathroom. The spirit repeats die Game,
Speaker 1: Die Game, which is Latin four dying Well. Alonzo's girlfriend
Speaker 1: wrote those exact words to him before he was executed.
Speaker 1: These days, accounts of the hauntings at Bobby Mackie's Music
Speaker 1: World feature a blend of rumor, exaggeration, and frightening truth.
Speaker 1: It's undeniable that Bobby Mackie and the other staff are
Speaker 1: benefiting from the bar's haunted reputation. It brings free publicity
Speaker 1: and tourists. But this makes it tricky to cut through
Speaker 1: the various accounts and learn which are true and which
Speaker 1: our fiction to draw in the curious and thrill seekers.
Speaker 1: Up next, we will talk to the delightful Laura Roland.
Speaker 1: She and her team actually head up the tours and
Speaker 1: investigation at Bobby Mackie's Music World. She's the perfect person
Speaker 1: to talk to sift through loare and reality. She's coming
Speaker 1: up after the break, all right, So I am now
Speaker 1: joined by Laura Roland who is with Gatekeeper Paranormal and
Speaker 1: they are the team that kind of over sees the
Speaker 1: tours and the paranormal investigations at Bobby Mackie's, and she's
Speaker 1: been there for quite some time and she's got some
Speaker 1: really great stories. So thanks for joining, Laura, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I have to say right off the bat, like this
Speaker 1: is one of Bobby Mackie's is one of those places
Speaker 1: that people ask me about constantly, and I have investigated there.
Speaker 1: It was many years ago. I investigated there with ghost
Speaker 1: hunters and it was a very interesting investigation. I did
Speaker 1: not ride the mechanical bowl, but it was it was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. So why do you think that
Speaker 1: kind of stigma exists with that building? Why do you
Speaker 1: think people are just so eager to investigate it and
Speaker 1: to know more about it?
Speaker 2: Well, I think there are as many people interested to
Speaker 2: investigate it as there are people who are absolutely terrified
Speaker 2: to go there. And I think both of those groups
Speaker 2: of people are intrigued by the whole story that Carl
Speaker 2: started with the demonic activity there and his exorcism. I
Speaker 2: think that has either terrified people or made them more
Speaker 2: interested to come.
Speaker 1: Now, can you kind of go into that What is
Speaker 1: that story exactly?
Speaker 2: Well, Carl was the caretaker there. He was a good
Speaker 2: friend of Bobby and Bobby's wife, Janet, and he worked
Speaker 2: for him for many, many years, and he eventually moved
Speaker 2: into an apartment upstairs and he lived up there for
Speaker 2: thirteen years. And during the time that he lived there,
Speaker 2: he claimed that he was constantly, I guess, harassed by
Speaker 2: entities in the building and it got so bad for
Speaker 2: him that he felt like they were trying to take
Speaker 2: over his body and his soul and he needed to
Speaker 2: have a priest give him an exorcism. And then that story,
Speaker 2: you know, once that happened, because he would sit at
Speaker 2: the bar every night and tell anybody that would listen,
Speaker 2: he would tell them all the stuff that happened to him,
Speaker 2: and it's just you know, this was pre internet day,
Speaker 2: so this was just totally word of mouth back in
Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties that he's telling all these stories.
Speaker 2: And then the exorcism happened in the early nineties, and
Speaker 2: I think at that point everything just took off from there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I as someone who has investigated there,
Speaker 1: you know, I unfortunately did not have a ton happened.
Speaker 1: But see, this was I was investigating there with ghost Hunters,
Speaker 1: which back then that TV show was there were like seven,
Speaker 1: sometimes eight of us, and we would go in like
Speaker 1: two at a time, and so sometimes there'd be nights
Speaker 1: where like I would only get to investigate a place
Speaker 1: for like an hour or so, and Bobby Mackie's was
Speaker 1: one of those places where I did not get to
Speaker 1: be in there as much as I wanted to. But
Speaker 1: I do remember distinctly we caught at one point the
Speaker 1: sound of it sounded almost like it was like a
Speaker 1: dog or like some sort of growling dog in the
Speaker 1: bar area, and there's clearly no dogs in the bar,
Speaker 1: but that was the one the one thing that happened
Speaker 1: to me. I did. There was also was quite a
Speaker 1: ruckus in the basement at one point, and I went
Speaker 1: down there and discovered a family of raccoons.
Speaker 2: So, oh my god, they're probably still there.
Speaker 1: I bet they are. They probably remember me if I
Speaker 1: showed up. So but it is like you were saying,
Speaker 1: people don't ask me have you investigated Bobby Mackie's. They
Speaker 1: asked me, would you investigate Bobby Mackie's, you know, And
Speaker 1: there's a big difference there, and so that kind of
Speaker 1: puts it into perspective, you know, people, It does have
Speaker 1: that kind of really spooky beginning for people. But what
Speaker 1: kind of activity do people experience there on the regular.
Speaker 2: The two most common things that happen are shadow figures
Speaker 2: and disembodied voices. I'd say those are the most common.
Speaker 2: I see shadow figures. I mean I've been there for
Speaker 2: ten years, so, like you're talking about with the show,
Speaker 2: you guys are only there for a short period of time,
Speaker 2: so sometimes you might not get anything right. But over
Speaker 2: the course of ten years, where I've been there at
Speaker 2: least couple times a week, every week, I've seen stuff.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't tell you a part of that building
Speaker 2: where I haven't seen a shadow figure. I mean I
Speaker 2: see them all the time. In fact, last night I
Speaker 2: was there for a tour and I had the lights
Speaker 2: on and I was standing. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: remember the layout, but I was standing kind of We're
Speaker 2: in the room where Carl's exorcism was right in front
Speaker 2: of that, so I could see through the bar and
Speaker 2: like into where the gift shop is, and the lights
Speaker 2: were on, and all of a sudden, this dark figure
Speaker 2: almost ran right past that doorway where the gift shop is.
Speaker 2: I mean it scared me to death. I thought there
Speaker 2: was a person in the building. I thought I hadn't
Speaker 2: locked the door because this thing moved so fast, and
Speaker 2: I kind of jumped back. I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And the people on the tour, you know, sometimes I
Speaker 2: wonder if they believe me or if they think I'm
Speaker 2: just facan, But I absolutely was not. A figure ran
Speaker 2: past there, and that was unusual because usually the shadow
Speaker 2: figures just kind of lurk and move around real slowly.
Speaker 2: This one was on a mission and he was running. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, so who do you think that is? Who do
Speaker 1: you think is responsible for that?
Speaker 2: I have no idea, Honestly. I've always thought that Mackie's
Speaker 2: is almost like a like a bus station in a way,
Speaker 2: like there are a lot of transients I think that
Speaker 2: go through there. The only two that I know of
Speaker 2: that have actually said their names, either on people's recordings
Speaker 2: or through spirit boxes are two guys. One of them
Speaker 2: killed the other one in the men's bathroom back in
Speaker 2: nineteen forty three. The guy that died. His name was
Speaker 2: Paul Goodhue, and he has come through many times on
Speaker 2: people's recordings saying his name and everything, because you know,
Speaker 2: you don't usually get names all that often, at least
Speaker 2: I don't, and not that clearly anyway. But aside from
Speaker 2: those two, I really I think most of the spirits
Speaker 2: there are just either just passing through or they're just
Speaker 2: residuals that are always there.
Speaker 1: I think that's interesting, And you know, I talk about
Speaker 1: that a lot, especially with some of these places that
Speaker 1: seem to be more actively haunted. How it's not always
Speaker 1: just easy to pinpoint it down to one ghost or
Speaker 1: one person that it does seem to be this Sometimes
Speaker 1: they're kind of almost this way station, or maybe it's
Speaker 1: a place they had fond memories or you know, or
Speaker 1: maybe they just like you said, they they're passing through,
Speaker 1: or they notice that people are looking for people like
Speaker 1: them there and they're like, oh, I could probably talk
Speaker 1: to someone here, you know.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: So when you saw that shadow, I think that's so
Speaker 1: interesting that it was moving so quickly. I've seen that
Speaker 1: happen a few times myself. I always find when I'm
Speaker 1: running a tour of some sort, if I'm like hosting
Speaker 1: an investigation or teaching a class, you know, you're looking
Speaker 1: towards the group, and then so many times things happen
Speaker 1: behind them and you're watching it or you see it
Speaker 1: and they don't exactly do you think that the spirits
Speaker 1: there know that they're messing with you in some way?
Speaker 2: I thought of it that way, but like they could
Speaker 2: be trying to make me look stupid, like you know
Speaker 2: that I'm jumping at something that startled me and and
Speaker 2: the group is like, what in the world just happened?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just I feel like that it's
Speaker 1: just one of those things, like it happens to me
Speaker 1: all the time. And I also wonder too sometimes as
Speaker 1: someone who's in those places salater, as someone who's hosting
Speaker 1: a tour, you might just be so familiar with the
Speaker 1: activity that you can spot it quicker, and you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. It's just something to think
Speaker 1: about it. I always wonder like, as we subject ourselves
Speaker 1: to these things more and more, you know, what is
Speaker 1: it that we're seeing? And a lot of people aren't
Speaker 1: seeing just yet. But so Bobby Mackie's is open, obviously,
Speaker 1: there's bands and bars and music and so have you
Speaker 1: ever seen paranormal activity, like when it's really busy and
Speaker 1: there has something strange happening where you're like, that's not
Speaker 1: a live person, or have heard stories along those lines.
Speaker 2: Well, personally, I'm not usually there when the bar's open
Speaker 2: because we only do our tours when the bar's closed, right,
Speaker 2: So I haven't personally seen any thing happened when the
Speaker 2: bar's open, but I have heard stories. They mostly involved
Speaker 2: the bathroom and things happening to people when they're in
Speaker 2: the bathroom. But you also have to remember these people
Speaker 2: are likely drink in a little bit, and you know,
Speaker 2: and but you know, I always think that could go
Speaker 2: either way, Like you're either drinking and then you're just
Speaker 2: seeing things that aren't there. But on the other hand,
Speaker 2: maybe you're drinking and you are kind of a little
Speaker 2: more open, you know, and the spirits might take advantage
Speaker 2: of that. So but I think a lot of times
Speaker 2: the day after, like on a Sunday, when the bar's
Speaker 2: been open on Friday and Saturday, A lot of times
Speaker 2: Sundays have a lot of energy in that building, I
Speaker 2: think from all the people and especially if like maybe
Speaker 2: there's fights or something. You know, people get in fights
Speaker 2: sometimes all that energy I think builds up over the
Speaker 2: weekend and Sundays are sometimes pretty active.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That was going to be my next question was that
Speaker 1: after bands play and they have a particularly rowdy night,
Speaker 1: if that impacts the activity at all. Do you guys
Speaker 1: ever go in like direly after the bar closing or
Speaker 1: do you go on like off nights.
Speaker 2: No, because they're there till three am and that's what'll
Speaker 2: past my bedtime. So we're usually there on almost every
Speaker 2: Sunday we have tours.
Speaker 1: And so I'm assuming that the activity does not care
Speaker 1: whether it's day or night.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely not. I've had some of the amazing experiences
Speaker 2: that I've ever had there been in the middle of
Speaker 2: the afternoon, So I don't think they know or care
Speaker 2: what time it is.
Speaker 1: What would you say has been your most kind of
Speaker 1: powerful experience that you've had there?
Speaker 2: I've had again, it involves shadow figures. And this just
Speaker 2: happened over the summer. I was in the basement in
Speaker 2: the well room, you know where the well is, that
Speaker 2: old house, and there's a table out in the hallway,
Speaker 2: and it was afternoon, well it was early evening, but
Speaker 2: there was light coming in so you could still see.
Speaker 2: It wasn't pitch black, and I could see under the
Speaker 2: table that's in the hallway, and there was this black
Speaker 2: shape and at first you know you're talking about raccoons.
Speaker 2: I thought it could have been an animal, but it
Speaker 2: was pretty big. It was like dog sized, but it
Speaker 2: was It looked like somebody was sitting there, hugging their
Speaker 2: knees and kind of rocking back and forth. And I
Speaker 2: stared at it for several minutes because my mind was
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what it was and I didn't
Speaker 2: want to startle my group that there was some wild
Speaker 2: animal in the building. So I was just staring at it,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, This sounds crazy, but I
Speaker 2: swear it stopped rocking and looked at me like and
Speaker 2: you know, you always have that feeling in your head
Speaker 2: like am I really seeing this or am I imagining
Speaker 2: that it's looking at me? But I swear it stopped
Speaker 2: rocking and turn and looked at me, and then just
Speaker 2: took off out from under the table. That was another
Speaker 2: fast mover, and it just took off.
Speaker 1: That's pretty wild. I wonder if if he she and
Speaker 1: I don't know notice that. I know you were noticing
Speaker 1: it and went, oh, wait, she can see me, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, That's what it felt like to me because I
Speaker 2: was staring at it so intently, trying to make my
Speaker 2: eyes focus and figure out if that was you know,
Speaker 2: an animal or you know, I didn't know what it was,
Speaker 2: but yeah, that was one of my favorites and most
Speaker 2: recent ones.
Speaker 1: Now when people come out on the tours or they
Speaker 1: come in to investigate and whatnot, like, have you had
Speaker 1: people that just have had enough and like have to leave? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've had people get touched, scratched, whispers in
Speaker 2: their ear, and then they just get freaked out and
Speaker 2: they're like, no, I'm done. I'm going to sit in
Speaker 2: the car while the rest of the people finish the tour.
Speaker 1: And how do you feel about the well? Do you
Speaker 1: think there is something to the well that there's some
Speaker 1: sort of energy about it. I mean, people talk.
Speaker 2: About the well all the time, they do, and I
Speaker 2: mean that room is one of my favorite rooms to investigate.
Speaker 2: I do feel like there's a lot of energy there.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if I'm qualified to say that.
Speaker 2: I think that that's like a portal, because I feel
Speaker 2: like the whole building is a portal, because you know,
Speaker 2: stuff happens everywhere. But I mean, it's just a hole
Speaker 2: in the ground. It's just a tunnel that goes out
Speaker 2: to the licking river behind the building. I don't see
Speaker 2: any reason, you know why it would be that specific
Speaker 2: area that's some sort of portal, But I mean again,
Speaker 2: it could be I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the area does have a really interesting history,
Speaker 1: of course, and like you stated, like there was definitely
Speaker 1: someone who died in the bathroom at one point. You know,
Speaker 1: it's been and I find that the energy and venues,
Speaker 1: particularly like theaters and musical venues, like there is an
Speaker 1: energy there that might not necessarily even be having to
Speaker 1: do with death, or it's just that you people are feeling,
Speaker 1: they're really feeling something. You know, you have performers that
Speaker 1: are really giving it their all, and then you have
Speaker 1: people just having sometimes some of the best nights of
Speaker 1: their lives, sometimes the worst nights of their lives. And
Speaker 1: that energy, I feel like, over so many years of existence,
Speaker 1: can affect the paranormal activity there or maybe even create it.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like that might have something to do
Speaker 1: with why Bobby Mackie's is so active?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've said something along those lines on tours
Speaker 2: many times, just about the energy that's been in the
Speaker 2: building for so many years, because you have to before
Speaker 2: Bobby was even there, you know, it was a mob
Speaker 2: owned nightclub, called the Latin Quarter, and before that it
Speaker 2: was the Primrose and it was during the Primrose days
Speaker 2: that the guy got killed in the bathroom. But the
Speaker 2: whole mob activity that might have gone on there, I mean,
Speaker 2: who knows what they did, especially down in the basement.
Speaker 2: There's bullet holes in a door down in the basement,
Speaker 2: and the mob you just don't know what they're gonna
Speaker 2: do if they you know, they might have killed someone
Speaker 2: in the basement and we don't even know about it
Speaker 2: because they didn't like keep records of that kind of stuff, right.
Speaker 1: So there's no there's no mob record book anywhere unfortunately.
Speaker 1: But you know, and that's actually so I think that
Speaker 1: sometimes with those kind of instances, because I've investigated many
Speaker 1: places where like tragedies and tragic crimes have happened that
Speaker 1: really no one ever had to answer for. And I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like sometimes those spirits are especially just
Speaker 1: really trying to get through to you because you know,
Speaker 1: they want people to know what happened to them, because
Speaker 1: you know, many times they just kind of disappeared, And
Speaker 1: so that might have something to do with it, especially
Speaker 1: when you have people going in there on the right,
Speaker 1: on the writing out and asking questions. So do you
Speaker 1: do you ever feel that kind of desperate energy, like
Speaker 1: there are spirits that are really trying to get through
Speaker 1: to people in that building.
Speaker 2: Well, I always think about because I mentioned people getting
Speaker 2: scared when they get scratched, and you know, there's so
Speaker 2: much I don't know, drama over people being scratched. But
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think that's something evil. A lot of
Speaker 2: times I think they're just desperately trying to get someone's attention.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's you know, a little too aggressive, but
Speaker 2: that's how they're trying to get someone's attention to tell
Speaker 2: them something. But yeah, I think especially in the basement
Speaker 2: because like I said, we don't know what went on
Speaker 2: down there back in the forties and fifties. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: get some interesting responses on EVPs and through the spirit
Speaker 2: boxes about people wanting you know, like they'll we'll ask
Speaker 2: them if they if they were murdered and or if
Speaker 2: they know how they died, And a lot of times
Speaker 2: we get responses to where it sounds like they're wanting
Speaker 2: some help with figuring out or at least someone being
Speaker 2: held responsible for what happened to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I feel the same way about scratches.
Speaker 1: I try to kind of illustrate that to people sometimes.
Speaker 1: You know, if you think about if you're in a
Speaker 1: situation where you're completely desperate, you are not even sure
Speaker 1: people can hear you. I mean, I'm just I'm speculating
Speaker 1: what a spirit experience is. But you know, if they're
Speaker 1: in a situation where they are desperately trying to get
Speaker 1: through and they're trying to you know, communicate in some way,
Speaker 1: and that they see people around them, they hear people,
Speaker 1: they're not here, you know, they're not responding to you,
Speaker 1: and you find that you can do this thing where
Speaker 1: they can feel you, and like that that might be
Speaker 1: the one thing like oh they can feel they can
Speaker 1: feel me if I do this and like you scratch them,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to get their attention. People ask me
Speaker 1: about that, like you were saying a lot, because they
Speaker 1: just assume it's like some sort of like a demonic
Speaker 1: entity or something, and I'm like, no, like put yourself
Speaker 1: there for a minute. Unless they're aggressively trying to harm you.
Speaker 1: It could be someone just really trying to get your attention.
Speaker 1: And so I you know, I do try to tell
Speaker 1: people or investing when we're investigating that. There are some
Speaker 1: locations that are kind of more notorious for that than others,
Speaker 1: and so I'm glad that you give them that outlook
Speaker 1: when they go in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've also had and most of the scratching
Speaker 2: happens in the same place. It usually happens in the
Speaker 2: well room or in the jail cell that's in the
Speaker 2: well room. And so, you know, they used to lock
Speaker 2: people in that jail cell. It's not really jail cell.
Speaker 2: It's just like a little stone room. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you remember seeing it in the well room. It's
Speaker 2: just a little stone room.
Speaker 1: I think raccoons at that point.
Speaker 3: But oh, okay, they used to lock people in there
Speaker 3: until they figured out, you know, how they were going
Speaker 3: to deal with them, like whether they're going to beat
Speaker 3: them up or kill them or throw them in the river,
Speaker 3: you know, so they would lock them up in there.
Speaker 2: And that's where a lot of people experience scratching, is
Speaker 2: when they're sitting in that what we call jail cell.
Speaker 2: So it could be that people, you know, maybe the
Speaker 2: spirit of someone that is trapped in there and they're
Speaker 2: scared and they're just trying to reach out for someone
Speaker 2: to help them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you feel fine when you're in that place
Speaker 1: by yourself? Do you feel safe that? Like? Do you
Speaker 1: feel good?
Speaker 2: Well, my answer to that question will probably answer your question.
Speaker 2: I don't often go in there by myself, so I
Speaker 2: used to, but sometimes and sometimes it's fine, I'll be honest.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's fine and it's just like any old building.
Speaker 2: But there are other times where you walk in there
Speaker 2: and you automatically feel this heaviness, like something doesn't want
Speaker 2: me in here. And I've had that happen. So now
Speaker 2: I just wait for my tour group outside because I
Speaker 2: don't I don't like feeling like that. I don't like
Speaker 2: feeling like they don't want me there, or that you know,
Speaker 2: they're angry, maybe that we're coming to bother them again,
Speaker 2: because you know, you're just sitting there, minding your business
Speaker 2: and then all these people come in saying is there
Speaker 2: anybody here? Can you hear me? You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That's actually that that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: And now do you do you try to kind of
Speaker 1: guide people when you bring them in, like, hey, try
Speaker 1: to think outside the box. Don't ask the same questions
Speaker 1: over and over again.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I I you know, ask them something
Speaker 2: for like, you know, what's your favorite food, what's your
Speaker 2: favorite drink, or you know anything, but other than you know,
Speaker 2: can you knock three times?
Speaker 1: You know right?
Speaker 2: You're dead?
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I know. I try to tell people
Speaker 1: to get really inventive with the conversation or draw and
Speaker 1: like events from the time, that kind of thing. But
Speaker 1: but it's nice to hear that, you know, you kind
Speaker 1: of go in in a respectful fashion. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: I can imagine like for them with groups coming in,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they might get a little a little aggravated.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but it's nice to be cognizant of that,
Speaker 1: you know, be respectful. And so you the basement in particular,
Speaker 1: it sounds like that is a spot that's kind of
Speaker 1: like a hot spot for you. Is there anywhere else
Speaker 1: that you feel like might be underrated as far as
Speaker 1: activity goes in the building?
Speaker 2: Well, actually the main floor, because you know, last night
Speaker 2: when I had that shadow figure run the whole time
Speaker 2: I was up, which about an hour I was up
Speaker 2: on that main level, I was very uneasy because something
Speaker 2: about that just really you know, startled me and I
Speaker 2: just felt really uneasy. And then sometimes you go in
Speaker 2: the basement where everybody thinks, you know, the demons are
Speaker 2: hanging out, and it's just it's completely quiet and calm
Speaker 2: down there, but upstairs, you know, it's really you know,
Speaker 2: heavy and intense. So you know, a lot of people
Speaker 2: just want to go to the basement and you know,
Speaker 2: because that's what they hear about all the time, is
Speaker 2: the well and you know all of that going on,
Speaker 2: but a lot of times upstairs on the main level
Speaker 2: is way more active.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and I'm sure they move around too. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: So well that's I mean, that's that's good to know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think also you might I tell people
Speaker 1: this too, Like when you're around a live person in
Speaker 1: front of you, you can feel that vibe that they're
Speaker 1: giving off. So it makes me think that maybe the
Speaker 1: energy around some of these spirits, like you can feel them.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, someone's here is not very happy, and
Speaker 1: then next thing you know, you see a shadow running
Speaker 1: across the room. You know. Yeah, so you probably are
Speaker 1: pretty in tune there, maybe more so than others, just
Speaker 1: because you're there so often. So if people want to visit,
Speaker 1: if people want to go on a tour, what do
Speaker 1: they have to do?
Speaker 2: Well, there's two options. Most people find it easier to
Speaker 2: just go to Bobby Macki's website because it's easy Bobby
Speaker 2: Mai dot com and there's a link on there that
Speaker 2: says paranormal and if they click on that, it'll take
Speaker 2: them right to our page to book a tour, or
Speaker 2: they can go to Gatekeeper Paranormal dot com and do
Speaker 2: the same thing, book a tour online.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's great. Well, I really do thank you for
Speaker 1: taking the time. You've been lovely and at some point
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to make it back out there
Speaker 1: and you say hello to my friends in the basement
Speaker 1: and also hopefully meet you in person.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that would be awesome.
Speaker 1: Many of the sightings and reports from Bobby Mackie's Music
Speaker 1: World have a violent tinge to them, from ghostly assaults
Speaker 1: to hostile energies to throw them bottles and toppling furniture.
Speaker 1: It's apparent that the spirits there are angry, and with
Speaker 1: good reason. The bar has been a silent witness to
Speaker 1: murder many times over. Sadly, justice is elusive. We may
Speaker 1: never know who killed Pearlbrian, or of the men who
Speaker 1: were hanged for the crime innocent, and that's before we
Speaker 1: get into the other tragedies and miscarriages of justice that followed.
Speaker 1: At the very least, the original trio's anger seems to
Speaker 1: live on, and it may persist forever. I'm Amy Bruney
Speaker 1: and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is hosted and
Speaker 1: written by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by Cassandra
Speaker 1: de Alba. This show is edited and produced by rema
Speaker 1: El Kali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers
Speaker 1: Aaron Menke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Menke.
Speaker 1: Learn more about this show over at Grimanmild dot com,
Speaker 1: and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.