WEBVTT - The Ground Around Her Corpse Was Soaked in Blood and Her Head Was Missing 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:05.040 Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:11.639 and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. What 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:17.960 role does music play in influencing paranormal activity? Not just music, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:23.440 but a vivacious social scene or bar. I've experimented with 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.280 this actually years ago. While investigating a bar, we were 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.480 told that after hours, particularly on nights where Live's music 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.320 had been played in the venue, were always the most 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:39.960 active times ghost Twice we experimented with that. We invited 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.640 a Lives band to play during the investigation, and during 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.480 their set we ran all sorts of equipment and kept 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:52.040 tabs on our surroundings. Sure enough, we captured anomalies and activity. 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.560 Perhaps most telling, once the band had packed up and 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.880 left and we returned to the room to investigate, the 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.800 jukebox turned off by itself, and the credit card machines 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.160 started spitting out blank receipt paper for no reason. Imagine 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.399 working under those circumstances every night. Needless to say, my 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.720 interest in this phenomenon was peaud and there's perhaps no 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.119 better place to explore such a theory than Bobby Mackie's 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:31.080 Music World. I'm Amy Bruney, and this is Haunted Road. Wilder, Kentucky, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.520 sits just across the Ohio River from Cincinnati. The small 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.200 town of about three thousand people has only been formally 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.119 incorporated for about ninety years. Before that, it was part 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.200 of a nearby town called Newport. In the eighteenth century, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.200 Newport was known for its crime, and in particular for 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.520 its ties to organized crime. This was a region that 0:01:54.720 --> 0:02:00.480 upstanding citizens avoided because it promised trouble. These days, if 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.640 motorists pull off of the four lane Licking Road and Wilder, 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.040 they'll see what looks like an abandoned shack. It has 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.000 a false brick front, while the other three walls are white, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.800 sighting train tracks cut behind it with the Licking River 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.760 behind them. The structure is dark, windowless, and doesn't even 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.040 have a paved parking lot. Visitors can park in the 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.840 patch of white gravel off to the side. But in 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:29.160 spite of its ominous appearance, this business called Bobby Mackie's 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:34.000 Music World is still in operation. If you're brave enough 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.919 to enter. The interior decor hints at its colorful past. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.400 A dive bar with pool tables and a mechanical bowl 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.400 operates alongside a gift shop The black floor features a 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.800 faded logo for the Latin Quarter, a former nightclub that 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.560 used to operate in this building. Dim lights barely illuminate 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.000 the red and black ceiling or the sign behind the 0:02:55.040 --> 0:03:00.080 small stage that reads America's honky Tonk. The basement is 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.600 even more eerie. Visitors have to walk over plywood walkways 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.600 that stretch across crumbling, broken concrete flooring. The walls are 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.640 wooden planks dotted with bullet holes. In a back corner, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:17.359 behind wooden barriers, an eighteen inch tall stone circular structure 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.120 rises from the floor. This is an old well, but 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.800 it's anyone's guess exactly how old it is. Some rumors 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.239 suggest it dates to at least eighteen ninety seven, when 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.840 it offered water to the community. Others suggest it's from 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.720 the mid nineteenth century. Rumors say the building used to 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.320 be a slaughter house and the cistern collected blood from 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.840 butchered animals, and some less colorful speculation, like that of 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.360 Dan Smith riding for Haunted America, says the well was 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.840 part of a tunnel system that captured and directed water 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.640 from the nearby Licking River. Asher Albine of the Bitter 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.640 Southerner wrote that there are many rumors that Satanists once 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.920 use the well in some kind of ritual sacrifice. Albeing 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.640 also noted that the gossip is almost certainly untrue, but 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.120 that hasn't stopped even wilder stories from flying, including one 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.600 claim that the well isn't opening into hell. And the 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.320 signs and advertisements throughout Bobby Mackie's Music World demonstrate that 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.480 the current owners have embraced their haunted reputation. Before anyone 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.960 can even set foot inside, they'll spot an outdoor sign 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.800 that says Bobby Mackie's another right underneath it announces that 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.440 visitors can book two hour ghost tours, and inside postings 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.880 feature language like this establishment is reported to be haunted. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.279 Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:46.080 any actions of any ghost spirits on these premises. For 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.560 all the bars ghostly marketing, The region's eerie reputation predates 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.960 Bobby Mackie's by about a century. In January eighteen ninety six, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.400 a twenty three year old woman named Pearl Brian arrived 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.279 in Newport, Kentucky. A few of her friends or family 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.680 members knew the real reason she left her home in 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.520 Greencastle Indiana. She told them she was visiting a friend, 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.719 but in reality, she was about five months pregnant. It's 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.440 believed she was seeking an illegal abortion, or, as suggested 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.120 in Eric Burnsey's article with the banner graphic, she was 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.279 tracking down the birth father to demand he marry her. 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.680 Whatever her plan, it didn't work out. Soon after her 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.200 arrival on February first, Pearl was found dead in an orchard. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.880 The ground around her corpse was soaked in blood, and 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.600 her head was missing. Given the sheer amount of blood, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.480 coroners speculated that she was still living when her murderer 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:49.000 decapitated her. Understandably, any gruesome story like this will draw attention, 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:54.000 and Pearl Brian's murder was splashed across newspapers. The police 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.280 worked quickly, and their investigation eventually led them to two men, 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:03.640 Scott Jackson and his roommate Alonzo Walling. Scott was believed 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.080 to be Pearl's lover, and he was enrolled in a 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.920 dental school in nearby Cincinnati. It would have been relatively 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.920 easy for him to travel across the river to kill 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:16.600 Pearl and dump her body. When police questioned Scott, he 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.000 claimed he was helping Pearl secure an abortion as a 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:24.120 favor for a friend the baby's actual father. As Robert 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.880 Wilhelm recorded on the Murder by Gaslight web page The 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:32.039 Mysteries of Pearl Brian, Scott claimed his roommate Alonzo was 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.760 supposed to help get Pearl to and from the abortion appointment. 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:41.159 Scott claimed Alonzo killed Pearl when the procedure went wrong. Alonso, 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.279 in turn, suggested Scott always meant to murder Pearl rather 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:50.159 than get her medical treatment. Each suspect protested his innocence 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.800 while incriminating the other, but the hard evidence didn't look 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.720 good for either accused man. Both Alonzo and Scott were 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.400 seen with Pearl the night of her murder, and, according 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.320 to one horse cab driver, men fitting their descriptions escorted 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.400 a clearly unwell woman across the river from Ohio to Kentucky. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.679 A bartender also assured the police he saw Scott drug 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:17.240 Pearls drink that evening. Albert Vinton Stegmann Junior reported a 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:22.280 particularly disturbing detail on a web page titled Pearl Brian Murder. 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.240 He writes that during the night, Scott and Alonso went 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.760 into a tavern carrying a red leather valus that had 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.280 once belonged to Pearl. They asked the bartender to hold 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.760 onto the item for them, and when he picked it up, 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.080 he was surprised at how heavy it was. He speculated 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.720 that the bag held a bowling ball, but later, when 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.440 police found the vallas stained with blood, they suspected it 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.320 actually held Pearl's head. It's not clear what became of 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.320 her head after that, because it was never recovered. Some 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.320 speculate the killer tossed it into the Ohio River or 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.800 burned it in a furnace at the dental school, but 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.800 another popular theory is that he threw it down a well, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.480 the same well that now sits in Bobby Mackie's Music 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.720 World's basement. Either way, the witness's testimony was enough for 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.480 the courts to sentence both men to death. They were 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:19.040 hanged together on March twentieth, eighteen ninety seven. Even on 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.600 the gallows, each man protested the execution as a miscarriage 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.560 of justice. Indianapolis's The Sunday Journal reports that just before 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.920 he was killed, Alonzo Walling declared, you are about to 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.240 take the life of an innocent man. I call upon 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.160 God to be my witness. There are also rumors which 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.000 I have not been able to verify that one or 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:47.200 both men warned that if they were unjustly executed, they'd 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:54.839 remain in the town as ghosts haunting their killers. Sure enough, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.000 after the hanging, a series of strange and inexplicable disasters 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.920 struck the area. In eighteen seventy six, a distillery was 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.079 built on the land where Bobby Mackie's Music World stands. Now, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.880 thirty years after it opened its doors, it caught fire. Meanwhile, 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.559 a bridge over the Licking River was constructed nearby. Before 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.040 the builders could finish their work, it collapsed, taking thirty 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.440 one lives. The string of bad luck persisted throughout the 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.720 twentieth century. Numerous pubs and clubs opened and closed on 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.480 the site. These decades were marked by barroom brawls that 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:34.200 turned deadly, brutal mafia hits, and fatal shootouts. I could 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.199 go on and on about the various murders and suicides 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.560 that struck the patrons and owners of these businesses, but 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.680 in the interest of time, let's move ahead to April 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.680 nineteen seventy eight, That is when Linda and the eponymous 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.720 Bobby Mackie bought the bar. Bobby was a musician and 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.200 may have wanted to open a venue for country performers, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.400 but it didn't take long for disaster to strike yet again. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.240 Bobby and Linda were mid renovation when a fire broke 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.200 out at Music World. Numerous stories in the Cincinnati Inquirer 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.880 emphasized that there was no clear cause for the blaze. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.640 The fire pushed back Music World's opening days several months 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:19.120 to October twenty seventh, nineteen seventy eight. After that, the 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.240 bar proved to be such a success, Bobby tried opening 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.920 another establishment just next door, but the land he purchased 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.480 in nineteen ninety two suddenly ripped apart as a two 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:34.080 hundred foot chasm appeared out of nowhere. For context, that's 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.400 the length of a twenty story building, and it was 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:40.800 determined that Bobby couldn't possibly build there. Five more years 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.440 passed and another fire struck the original bar. This time 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.640 the cause was clear. A customer set the structure alight 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:52.960 after a confrontation with a waitress about bringing in outside beer. Luckily, 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.760 no one was hurt in the blaze, but it did 0:10:55.800 --> 0:11:00.120 reek thousands of dollars in damages. In spite of all 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.120 these omens, Bobby Mackie didn't cement its reputation as a 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:09.520 haunted location until the early nineties. Asher Albin wrote about 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.920 how ghost stories become a fundamental part of the bar's 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.840 identity on his page Honky Tonk Haunts on the Bitter 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.679 Southerner website. He says Bobby knew his employee Karl Lawson 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.960 often heard footsteps and got the eerie feeling he was 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.800 being watched even when he was alone. He was so 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.800 unnerved by these incidents he slept with a gun in 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.679 his bed and propped his door closed. Bobby had previously 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.600 warned Carl not to mention the eerie's supernatural encounters, as 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.960 he found them disturbing, but one night Bobby struck up 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.079 a conversation about them with Karl and a regular customer 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:50.400 and horror writer named Doug Hensley. Doug grew increasingly fascinated 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.000 and begged the two men to tell him everything about 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.600 the hauntings of Bobby Mackie's. Finally, they relented, and Doug 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.560 took careful notes on each story they told him. In 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.720 nineteen ninety one, he published their accounts in a book 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:09.120 titled Terror at Music World. The bestseller instantly rocketed Doug, Carl, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.720 Bobby and the Bar to fame. The book inspired countless 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.160 new reports about spectral encounters at Music World. Carl claims 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.320 he performed an exorcism in the kitchen, which only brought 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:27.080 temporary relief from paranormal incidents. Other guests reported fireballs, unnatural 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.040 swarms of yellow jackets and bats, and, as Douglas Hensley 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.520 wrote in Hell's Gates, Terror at Bobby Mackie's Music World, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.760 the ceilings are said to bleed onto the walls. These 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.200 accounts even created legal trouble for Bobby. In nineteen ninety three, 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.920 one of his customers sued him on the grounds that 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.360 a ghost had attacked him in the bathroom. The bar's 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.680 lawyer didn't take the claim seriously. His motion to dismiss 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.200 was written in rhyming couplets. The final line declared the 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.680 plaintiff can always pursue his torte upon his death. In 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:07.000 a higher court. A judge dismissed the lawsuit before it 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:13.199 could go to trial. Now we can debate how many 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.760 of these reports are true and how much of it 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:20.199 is savvy marketing. But even if Bobby and Carl exaggerated 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.280 some of the bar's history, there are numerous verified sightings 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.640 within its walls. Reports suggest the jukebox often plays the 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.920 anniversary song even when it's unplugged and off. Strangest of all, 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.600 the anniversary song was never programmed into it as a selection, 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.160 and some unseen presence has a tendency to toss bottles 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.080 across the room and knock furniture over. Some visitors have 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.880 spotted a specter they believe is a former owner named 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.800 Buck Brady. He briefly operated the bar, then called the 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.200 Primrose Country Club in later the Latin Quarter, until the 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.160 mafia wrested control from him. It said he cursed the 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:04.560 establishment before later taking his own life. Now, a figure 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.280 that looks exactly like his old photographs remains at Music World. 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.280 The Cincinnati Post also features descriptions of a figure that 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.040 appears to be half man and half goat stalking the premises. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.320 Of course, many narratives feature the three doomed souls who 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.800 kicked off the many disasters in Newport and the surrounding area, 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.560 Pearl Brian, and the two men who were convicted of 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:32.280 killing her. Many visitors have seen her headless ghost wandering 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.520 through Music World, both the bar itself and the basement. 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.600 A psychic also claims to have made contact with her spirit. 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.040 It's possible that Bobby Mackie's wife, Janet had an ominous 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.720 encounter with Pearl when she was reportedly five months pregnant. 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.320 As she was on the stairs, unseen hands pushed her. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.880 It said. The fall may have made her give birth prematurely. 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.640 Janet never identified the spirit, but it's hard to ignore 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.040 the parallels between the two two women who were both 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.520 at the same stage of their pregnancy. Janet suffered through 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.920 other aggressive incidents too. Elbin reports that Janet complained of 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.800 hostile energies at Music World, and she said a spirit 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.320 pushed her against a sink that seemed to be filling 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.400 with blood. All these encounters were enough that Janet eventually 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.840 refused to go inside of Music World. She never reversed 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.800 her stance up until her two thousand and nine death. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.640 Guests have also interacted with Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.360 who were executed for Pearl's murder. Employee Carl Lawson claims 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.680 that he has seen the image of a scaffold with 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.920 bodies hanging from it in the basement. In the Richmond Register, 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.720 Taylor six writes of an apparition with a handlebar mustache 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.880 who appears in the men's bathroom. The spirit repeats die Game, 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:55.239 Die Game, which is Latin four dying Well. Alonzo's girlfriend 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.160 wrote those exact words to him before he was executed. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.120 These days, accounts of the hauntings at Bobby Mackie's Music 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.600 World feature a blend of rumor, exaggeration, and frightening truth. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.600 It's undeniable that Bobby Mackie and the other staff are 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:16.080 benefiting from the bar's haunted reputation. It brings free publicity 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.560 and tourists. But this makes it tricky to cut through 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.760 the various accounts and learn which are true and which 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.080 our fiction to draw in the curious and thrill seekers. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:30.040 Up next, we will talk to the delightful Laura Roland. 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.920 She and her team actually head up the tours and 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.600 investigation at Bobby Mackie's Music World. She's the perfect person 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.920 to talk to sift through loare and reality. She's coming 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:53.480 up after the break, all right, So I am now 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.000 joined by Laura Roland who is with Gatekeeper Paranormal and 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.320 they are the team that kind of over sees the 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.680 tours and the paranormal investigations at Bobby Mackie's, and she's 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.439 been there for quite some time and she's got some 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.080 really great stories. So thanks for joining, Laura, appreciate it. 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:11.679 Oh, thank you for having me. 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.639 I have to say right off the bat, like this 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.800 is one of Bobby Mackie's is one of those places 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:21.840 that people ask me about constantly, and I have investigated there. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.560 It was many years ago. I investigated there with ghost 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.720 hunters and it was a very interesting investigation. I did 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:33.239 not ride the mechanical bowl, but it was it was 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.560 a lot of fun. So why do you think that 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.439 kind of stigma exists with that building? Why do you 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:45.000 think people are just so eager to investigate it and 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:46.199 to know more about it? 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.679 Well, I think there are as many people interested to 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.720 investigate it as there are people who are absolutely terrified 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.560 to go there. And I think both of those groups 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:01.159 of people are intrigued by the whole story that Carl 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:06.159 started with the demonic activity there and his exorcism. I 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.480 think that has either terrified people or made them more 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:10.639 interested to come. 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.760 Now, can you kind of go into that What is 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:13.960 that story exactly? 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.520 Well, Carl was the caretaker there. He was a good 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.560 friend of Bobby and Bobby's wife, Janet, and he worked 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.000 for him for many, many years, and he eventually moved 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.080 into an apartment upstairs and he lived up there for 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.399 thirteen years. And during the time that he lived there, 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:37.040 he claimed that he was constantly, I guess, harassed by 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.919 entities in the building and it got so bad for 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.600 him that he felt like they were trying to take 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.119 over his body and his soul and he needed to 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:50.040 have a priest give him an exorcism. And then that story, 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.119 you know, once that happened, because he would sit at 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.240 the bar every night and tell anybody that would listen, 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.200 he would tell them all the stuff that happened to him, 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.400 and it's just you know, this was pre internet day, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.000 so this was just totally word of mouth back in 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.000 the eighties and nineties that he's telling all these stories. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.399 And then the exorcism happened in the early nineties, and 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.760 I think at that point everything just took off from there. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.840 Yeah. You know, I as someone who has investigated there, 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.680 you know, I unfortunately did not have a ton happened. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.000 But see, this was I was investigating there with ghost Hunters, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:28.919 which back then that TV show was there were like seven, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.639 sometimes eight of us, and we would go in like 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.400 two at a time, and so sometimes there'd be nights 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.359 where like I would only get to investigate a place 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.800 for like an hour or so, and Bobby Mackie's was 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.439 one of those places where I did not get to 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.000 be in there as much as I wanted to. But 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:46.359 I do remember distinctly we caught at one point the 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.080 sound of it sounded almost like it was like a 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.159 dog or like some sort of growling dog in the 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.280 bar area, and there's clearly no dogs in the bar, 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.760 but that was the one the one thing that happened 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.119 to me. I did. There was also was quite a 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.720 ruckus in the basement at one point, and I went 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.159 down there and discovered a family of raccoons. 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:12.680 So, oh my god, they're probably still there. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:14.800 I bet they are. They probably remember me if I 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.040 showed up. So but it is like you were saying, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.200 people don't ask me have you investigated Bobby Mackie's. They 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.080 asked me, would you investigate Bobby Mackie's, you know, And 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.600 there's a big difference there, and so that kind of 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.560 puts it into perspective, you know, people, It does have 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.320 that kind of really spooky beginning for people. But what 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.160 kind of activity do people experience there on the regular. 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.879 The two most common things that happen are shadow figures 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.520 and disembodied voices. I'd say those are the most common. 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.320 I see shadow figures. I mean I've been there for 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.080 ten years, so, like you're talking about with the show, 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.480 you guys are only there for a short period of time, 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.359 so sometimes you might not get anything right. But over 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.600 the course of ten years, where I've been there at 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.919 least couple times a week, every week, I've seen stuff. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.919 And I couldn't tell you a part of that building 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.199 where I haven't seen a shadow figure. I mean I 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.840 see them all the time. In fact, last night I 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:15.360 was there for a tour and I had the lights 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:17.560 on and I was standing. I don't know if you 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.000 remember the layout, but I was standing kind of We're 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.560 in the room where Carl's exorcism was right in front 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.959 of that, so I could see through the bar and 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:28.639 like into where the gift shop is, and the lights 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.720 were on, and all of a sudden, this dark figure 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:36.080 almost ran right past that doorway where the gift shop is. 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.080 I mean it scared me to death. I thought there 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.399 was a person in the building. I thought I hadn't 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.080 locked the door because this thing moved so fast, and 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:44.800 I kind of jumped back. I'm like, oh my god. 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.359 And the people on the tour, you know, sometimes I 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.120 wonder if they believe me or if they think I'm 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:53.200 just facan, But I absolutely was not. A figure ran 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.639 past there, and that was unusual because usually the shadow 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.200 figures just kind of lurk and move around real slowly. 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:02.320 This one was on a mission and he was running. Yeah. 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:04.439 Now, so who do you think that is? Who do 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:05.639 you think is responsible for that? 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.400 I have no idea, Honestly. I've always thought that Mackie's 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.960 is almost like a like a bus station in a way, 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.520 like there are a lot of transients I think that 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.280 go through there. The only two that I know of 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.760 that have actually said their names, either on people's recordings 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.720 or through spirit boxes are two guys. One of them 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.919 killed the other one in the men's bathroom back in 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.960 nineteen forty three. The guy that died. His name was 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:40.880 Paul Goodhue, and he has come through many times on 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.600 people's recordings saying his name and everything, because you know, 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.920 you don't usually get names all that often, at least 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.360 I don't, and not that clearly anyway. But aside from 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.360 those two, I really I think most of the spirits 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.399 there are just either just passing through or they're just 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:01.240 residuals that are always there. 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.640 I think that's interesting, And you know, I talk about 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:06.720 that a lot, especially with some of these places that 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.840 seem to be more actively haunted. How it's not always 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.280 just easy to pinpoint it down to one ghost or 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.800 one person that it does seem to be this Sometimes 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:19.120 they're kind of almost this way station, or maybe it's 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:21.679 a place they had fond memories or you know, or 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.360 maybe they just like you said, they they're passing through, 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:26.760 or they notice that people are looking for people like 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.440 them there and they're like, oh, I could probably talk 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:30.399 to someone here, you know. 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:31.120 Now. 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:32.919 So when you saw that shadow, I think that's so 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.760 interesting that it was moving so quickly. I've seen that 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.400 happen a few times myself. I always find when I'm 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.639 running a tour of some sort, if I'm like hosting 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.639 an investigation or teaching a class, you know, you're looking 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.200 towards the group, and then so many times things happen 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.000 behind them and you're watching it or you see it 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:56.040 and they don't exactly do you think that the spirits 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.719 there know that they're messing with you in some way? 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:01.960 I thought of it that way, but like they could 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.199 be trying to make me look stupid, like you know 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:07.359 that I'm jumping at something that startled me and and 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.480 the group is like, what in the world just happened? 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:13.000 Yeah, I mean, I just I feel like that it's 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:15.000 just one of those things, like it happens to me 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:17.280 all the time. And I also wonder too sometimes as 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:20.040 someone who's in those places salater, as someone who's hosting 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.320 a tour, you might just be so familiar with the 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:25.959 activity that you can spot it quicker, and you know, 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:27.920