Speaker 1: Episode three fourteen is episode one seventy three The Circular
Speaker 1: Economy and Your Money with Ron Gonan.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life.
Speaker 3: Here your host Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jill
Speaker 1: and I'm Chloe.
Speaker 3: I almost forgot my name.
Speaker 1: You know it, you know it. You're here. And yes,
Speaker 1: that is a little different because Jen's on maternity leave
Speaker 1: because she had a baby. You've probably heard this. It
Speaker 1: was a nine pound baby. He's so cute. His name
Speaker 1: is Atlas. And as she's out caring for her new
Speaker 1: human in the world, we've got Chloe doing a stand
Speaker 1: in co hosting. This is different from an inner you
Speaker 1: because while we have interviewed her in the past, you
Speaker 1: should check it out. She's just helping me co host.
Speaker 1: She's she's the new Gen except she's not. She's Chloe
Speaker 1: and she's amazing. You should be if you're not following
Speaker 1: her everywhere. She's got her own podcast called Moneybear. She's
Speaker 1: on Instagram as Clobear Money Coach. She's got a blog
Speaker 1: clobear dot com. I'm I'm gonna be honest. My favorite
Speaker 1: is following you on Instagram. We had you on the
Speaker 1: podcast or I think both the podcasts and for the
Speaker 1: summit at one point, and it was after that. I
Speaker 1: usually don't follow all of the people that we interview,
Speaker 1: that's just me being honest and vulnerable. But you, I
Speaker 1: did because you are so fun to watch and you
Speaker 1: are You're super knowledgeable on particularly investing, definitely all things money.
Speaker 1: But I know you talk a lot about investing and
Speaker 1: especially for beginners on Instagram, and that has help helped
Speaker 1: me a lot. Even being in the personal finance space,
Speaker 1: there's areas that I don't feel super expert on, but
Speaker 1: you do it in such a shame free, fun way.
Speaker 1: And any friend that I have coming to me being
Speaker 1: like I want to invest, I'm like, don't ask me.
Speaker 1: Follow this girl on Instagram. You won't be upset. So
Speaker 1: that's my introduction of you. But what do you want
Speaker 1: to say about you?
Speaker 4: Wow, Guys, I didn't even know this. She's just revealing
Speaker 4: all of this to me.
Speaker 3: Now. I am honored. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: That's literally everything I try to do is I think
Speaker 4: that you know, investing is scary for most people. It's
Speaker 4: gate kept for so long by people who already understand
Speaker 4: and are already wealthy. And my job is really to
Speaker 4: break it down for the average person, because I certainly
Speaker 4: never thought I would be the type of person who
Speaker 4: was obsessed with investing. I studied English and Spanish in college,
Speaker 4: so I assumed I would just never be good with money,
Speaker 4: I would never learn the skill set, and then I
Speaker 4: became completely obsessed with it. So that's kind of my mission,
Speaker 4: is to make it accessible for the everyday folk.
Speaker 3: And I'm glad that's resonating.
Speaker 1: And you do it, you do so well.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: We are here to bring you and it's a rerun
Speaker 1: of an episode well because Gen's on maternity leave, so
Speaker 1: let's just be real. But also we love pulling these
Speaker 1: ones out of the archives. This was one of our favorites.
Speaker 1: We love interviews the Circular Economy with Ron Gonan, and
Speaker 1: he is the CEO of Closed Loop Partners, the first
Speaker 1: investment firm dedicated entirely to financing companies that solve problems
Speaker 1: with circular solutions. So here we're going to ask him
Speaker 1: all about his approach to investing, how we can aim
Speaker 1: at practices that are both financially and environmentally responsible. So
Speaker 1: this is all super relevant to one of the things
Speaker 1: that you're so good at, Chloe, of investing, but then
Speaker 1: also being able to look at what are some ways
Speaker 1: that we can do this ethically and sustainably and invest
Speaker 1: but also in some of our daily life decisions. So
Speaker 1: we kind of cover all these things with Ron in
Speaker 1: this interview. So we're excited to queue this up for
Speaker 1: you if this is an interesting topic, you enjoy this.
Speaker 1: A few others that are similar that you can queue
Speaker 1: up after this as episode two sixty six Sustainable Minimalism
Speaker 1: and Frugality with Stephanie Sephirion. That was such a good one.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say that about honestly all of our
Speaker 1: interviews because the people we have on the show are
Speaker 1: so great and so cool, and minimalism and frugality I
Speaker 1: think are sustainable, but I think we take a deeper
Speaker 1: dive into the specifics of why we believe that to
Speaker 1: be true and how we can enact that in our
Speaker 1: daily lives. Then we've got episode two ten, which is
Speaker 1: Tips to Live Zero Waste Frugally. We all know that
Speaker 1: it can be done frugally, but it also can be
Speaker 1: done in a really unnecessarily spendy, expensive way where people
Speaker 1: think that I need to go buy all of the
Speaker 1: high tech, to ful things in order to somehow go
Speaker 1: zero waste, and that's just not the case. So if
Speaker 1: this is a lifestyle that you're aimed at, I'm not
Speaker 1: zero waste. I'm low waste. I'm on a journey towards
Speaker 1: low waste. And this episode, certainly and what we talked
Speaker 1: about there was really helpful for me in that. So
Speaker 1: just all things sustainability is what we are diving into.
Speaker 1: But first, you know the drill. This episode is brought
Speaker 1: to you by Basic Bombshells, the obvious alternative name for
Speaker 1: the Frugal Friends podcast, has sponsored this episode today because
Speaker 1: they're loaded.
Speaker 3: Basic Bombshells are loaded.
Speaker 1: We're just out here cutting expenses that don't matter and
Speaker 1: spending where we value in looking fire and if you
Speaker 1: want to cover more basics, I highly recommend Chloe's Free
Speaker 1: Investing Class because it's not just about saving and spending,
Speaker 1: it's also about investing. And if you feel like you
Speaker 1: could use some more info and understanding on this topic,
Speaker 1: this one's for you. Check it out at Lazy Investing
Speaker 1: Class dot com. Be a basic bombshell learn the basics, Chloe,
Speaker 1: what do you want to say about you?
Speaker 3: Just love I love the basic bombshells.
Speaker 4: I love the introduction into these ads, like I'm like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, this is genius.
Speaker 1: These words combined came out of my mouth the other
Speaker 1: day because we love alliteration. Obviously for your friends. I
Speaker 1: was hanging out with Jen holding her baby, and I
Speaker 1: forget the context, but I said something about basic bombshell
Speaker 1: and we loved it. I'm like, that's going to be
Speaker 1: a sponsor this week. But also it's gonna have to
Speaker 1: be a T shirt. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it is one.
Speaker 1: I'll get you one.
Speaker 4: Chlothe that's amazing. I love that endlessly. But yes, Also,
Speaker 4: I have a free investing class. It happens twice a month,
Speaker 4: usually in the same week. It's usually the last week
Speaker 4: of the month.
Speaker 3: It is live.
Speaker 4: It is the only time that you've got the ability
Speaker 4: to ask your questions from me live and for free.
Speaker 3: So it's a good time. The community is always amazing.
Speaker 4: I am always like blown away by how awesome my
Speaker 4: community is. It's like the nicest, most supportive, most like
Speaker 4: f Yeah, group of human beings in the webinar chat always,
Speaker 4: So if that is something that's intriguing to you, if
Speaker 4: you're like, ooh, investing, this might be the next step
Speaker 4: in my journey, I highly recommend you come because we
Speaker 4: do our best to make sure that it is it's
Speaker 4: not scary, and that it's actually kind of fun.
Speaker 1: That should be your next step. Honestly, after listening to
Speaker 1: this episode, because it is about investing, and if you
Speaker 1: want to learn more, then check out lazyinvestingclass dot com.
Speaker 1: But let's get into this interview with Ron. We thought
Speaker 1: it was a banger. We hope you do too. See
Speaker 1: you after the interview.
Speaker 5: Welcome Ron to the Frugal Friends podcast. So happy to
Speaker 5: have you here.
Speaker 2: With you today.
Speaker 1: We couldn't be more enthused about this topic and we
Speaker 1: know that it's going to be something that our listeners
Speaker 1: are very excited to hear about learn more about. I
Speaker 1: think this conversation is taking us to the next level
Speaker 1: of understanding and awareness and then actionable steps. So thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your knowledge with us today. Absolutely so, Ron,
Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about yourself? What
Speaker 1: is the circular economy? What got you interested or even
Speaker 1: passionate about this? Way of approaching economics and sustainability.
Speaker 2: Sure. So today I'm the founder and CEO of Closed
Speaker 2: Loop Partners. Closing Partners is an investment firm and innovation
Speaker 2: center focused on building the circular economy. And what we
Speaker 2: mean by the circular economy is developing manufacturing systems where
Speaker 2: you're able to manufacture the products that we all want
Speaker 2: without a dependence on natural resource extraction for manufacturing those
Speaker 2: products or the disposed of landfill of those products. Those
Speaker 2: are the two most expensive parts of the economy of
Speaker 2: manufacturing products. It's the extraction of natural resource and the
Speaker 2: disposal on landfill, not the actual manufacturing of the product.
Speaker 2: And if we can eliminate those two parts of the
Speaker 2: system natural resource extraction disposed on landfill, we're going to
Speaker 2: significantly cut costs and protect our environment. So that's what
Speaker 2: I do today and the area that I'm passionate about.
Speaker 1: How did you get involved with this ron? How did
Speaker 1: you decide this is what I really want to focus
Speaker 1: in on and even to start Closed Loop Partners or
Speaker 1: be the CEO of it.
Speaker 2: I was very fortunate. When I was in high school,
Speaker 2: my first job was working for one of the first
Speaker 2: green architects in America, and through his eyes and his experiences,
Speaker 2: I got to see first what it means to go
Speaker 2: against the grain, so to speak, because he was really
Speaker 2: one of the first and blazing a trail. And I
Speaker 2: also learned about all of these principles around sustainable design
Speaker 2: very early on in my life, and it just intuitively
Speaker 2: seemed to make sense to me, and that really got
Speaker 2: me started on a career that I've been very fortunate
Speaker 2: to have focused on sustainable business practices and maximizing financial returns.
Speaker 1: This topic excites me so much because when my eyes
Speaker 1: are open to it, when I have conversations like this,
Speaker 1: or I have opportunity to watch shows that are focused
Speaker 1: on sustainability and you're identifying architectural design, and it does
Speaker 1: it bleeds into an intersex with all aspects of our life.
Speaker 1: There's such a problem solving component to it and creativity
Speaker 1: that I don't know if this is common, but I
Speaker 1: feel it's pretty common amongst humanity that there's something that
Speaker 1: draws us to that. But we don't necessarily know that
Speaker 1: this is something that we should be problem solving or
Speaker 1: utilizing our creative juices about. And yet I hear so
Speaker 1: many people complaining about plastic, right if it's the toys
Speaker 1: that their kids use, or how much plastic is just
Speaker 1: around their house, and how there's trash everywhere. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: there's also a component to what can we do about that.
Speaker 1: This doesn't just have to happen to you. There's something
Speaker 1: that can be done. And you even talking about, oh,
Speaker 1: there's ways that we can be selling products without extracting
Speaker 1: natural resources. I just want to hear so much more.
Speaker 1: Are there any overarching basics of what you can say
Speaker 1: regarding how we can go about doing this aiming at
Speaker 1: a circular economy not extracting so much natural resources? Tell
Speaker 1: us about the problem solving and the creativity.
Speaker 2: Sure. The first thing that's really important for people to
Speaker 2: recognize is that while recycling is absolutely a major benefit
Speaker 2: for protecting our environment, it's not the only reason why
Speaker 2: you should be recycling. The other reason why you should
Speaker 2: be recycling is it means that your city doesn't have
Speaker 2: to pay to stick your waste in a hole called
Speaker 2: a landfill. Unfortunately, the way our sanitation system was designed
Speaker 2: in the United States post nineteen fifties, and this was
Speaker 2: intentional to hide numbers and costs from the general public
Speaker 2: to the benefit of certain industries. The cost of disposing
Speaker 2: of waste and landfills. It's buried in our tax bill.
Speaker 2: It's not priced like other utilities like water or electricity.
Speaker 2: It's just a cost that's embedded in our tax bill.
Speaker 2: And we have no idea how much are we actually
Speaker 2: spending and who are we paying all of this money to.
Speaker 2: And so the first thing that's really important for people
Speaker 2: to understand is that when you recycled, when you reduce,
Speaker 2: you reduce the amount that your municipality uses your tax
Speaker 2: dollars for disposing of material in landfill. And that's a
Speaker 2: really important thing to anchor everybody on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you talk in your book about using
Speaker 1: New York City as an example of the way that
Speaker 1: they approach waste and the burden that it is on
Speaker 1: the city, but also surrounding states, like they have to
Speaker 1: cross Tate lines to take trash to what North Carolina,
Speaker 1: even as far south as North Carolina, yep.
Speaker 2: So interestingly, New York City has probably the most robust
Speaker 2: recycling and circular economy infrastructure in the United States. So
Speaker 2: we're the only city in America where the cardboard boxes
Speaker 2: that get recycled in New York City actually get turned
Speaker 2: back into cardboard boxes in New York City and put
Speaker 2: back into the system, which is a great example of
Speaker 2: a way for the city to reduce disposal costs, generate
Speaker 2: revenue because it gets guaranteed payments for its recycled cardboard,
Speaker 2: and create a lot of local jobs. But New York City,
Speaker 2: even with the best recycling infrastructure in the country, could
Speaker 2: still do a better job recycling. And the material that
Speaker 2: doesn't get recycled has to go to landfill, and New
Speaker 2: York City doesn't have any landfills, and so it ships
Speaker 2: its ways to landfills in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and South Carolina.
Speaker 2: And so if you live in those three states, you're
Speaker 2: effectively the dumping ground for New York City's garbage. And
Speaker 2: there's private companies in your state that make a lot
Speaker 2: of money off of using your land to dispose of
Speaker 2: New York City's garbage. And oftentimes, if you're stuck on
Speaker 2: the highway behind a big eighteen wheeler and you think
Speaker 2: to yourself, well, at least that's American commerce and the
Speaker 2: American economy, and there's goods being transferred around the country.
Speaker 2: In many cases, it may just be garbage that's being
Speaker 2: moved or around from one city to another state to
Speaker 2: find landfill space.
Speaker 5: That's insane. We so often everybody forgets about taxes. They
Speaker 5: think taxes are just something they can't change, they'll always pay,
Speaker 5: so they never think about, like, how can I effectively
Speaker 5: lower my tax burden?
Speaker 6: And this is actually one thing you can tangibly do.
Speaker 5: Like I know some people complain about like, oh, recycling
Speaker 5: is expensive for our city, and like nobody talks about
Speaker 5: how expensive landfills are for the city.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that's that's intentional. There's a phenomenal marketing campaign
Speaker 2: that for decades was driven by the extractive industries and
Speaker 2: the landfill industries to hide the cost of extraction and
Speaker 2: hide the cost of disposal. And that seeks its way
Speaker 2: into the press. So I'll oftentimes get calls from the
Speaker 2: press and they'll say, well, the city just signed a
Speaker 2: contract to recycle and they're going to have to pay
Speaker 2: forty dollars a ton to recycle. What is your answer
Speaker 2: when people say why should we recycle? It costs forty
Speaker 2: dollars a ton? And I say to the reporter, have
Speaker 2: you looked at how much it would cost to landfill
Speaker 2: those recyclables? And More often than not, the reporter hasn't
Speaker 2: looked up that information at all because they've been pitched
Speaker 2: on the story by landfill operators who have invested interest
Speaker 2: in creating this perception that there's a zero sum game.
Speaker 2: Either you pay forty dollars to recycle or do you
Speaker 2: snap your fingers and it all just magically disappears. And
Speaker 2: invariably what happens is I tell the reporter go back
Speaker 2: and find out what are the landfill disposal fees, and
Speaker 2: oftentimes come back with go, oh, that's interesting. The landfild
Speaker 2: disposal fees are fifty five dollars or sixty five dollars
Speaker 2: or eighty dollars. And I'd say, so, that means that
Speaker 2: if you don't pay the forty dollars to recycle and
Speaker 2: potentially get the revenue share that's in most recycling contracts,
Speaker 2: which can completely eliminate that that forty dollars thing create
Speaker 2: a revenue source. If you don't do that, if you
Speaker 2: just say, hey, I'm not going to recycle my throne
Speaker 2: in the garbage, you will pay that instead sixty seventy
Speaker 2: or eighty dollars. Tip three, Now, what was your question
Speaker 2: again about is it worth it. They're a cycle, and
Speaker 2: they're kind of like, yeah, I don't really have much
Speaker 2: of an article here, do I go? You have a
Speaker 2: new article, You have a new article. But the reality
Speaker 2: is is the United States spends billions of dollars a
Speaker 2: year of taxpayer money to subsidize extractive industry. So if
Speaker 2: you think about the oil and gas industry, which is
Speaker 2: where virgin plastic comes from, for decades, they've gotten billions
Speaker 2: in federal and state tax subsidies. People oftentimes will say
Speaker 2: to me, well, if we let capitalism work, recycled plastic,
Speaker 2: if it were less expensive than virgin plastic, everyone would
Speaker 2: be using it. And I say, I agree with you.
Speaker 2: Let's let capitalism work. Let's allow the free market to
Speaker 2: see who's cheaper. Unfortunately, if we continue to use federal
Speaker 2: and state tax dollars to subsidize the oil and gas companies,
Speaker 2: we're not allowing capitalism to work. We're not allowing the
Speaker 2: free market to work. We're behind the scenes, unbeknownst to
Speaker 2: a lot of taxpayers and consumers, subsidizing an industry that's
Speaker 2: actually harmful for our health and environment. And same thing,
Speaker 2: we're spending billions of dollars. Then sending stuff to landfill,
Speaker 2: and that cost oftentimes is not transparent to tax payers.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so in your book, So there's the circular economy,
Speaker 5: which is what we want to move closer towards, which
Speaker 5: is like make use, reuse, remake, recycle, But we're currently
Speaker 5: on the linear economy, which is take, make, use, dispose, pollute.
Speaker 5: Is there any other ways that the linear economy is
Speaker 5: costing us that we don't know about?
Speaker 2: Well, the two clearest way is that the linear economy
Speaker 2: costs us money is you're paying to extract natural resources
Speaker 2: to manufacture when you could just be using recycled material.
Speaker 2: It's much less expensive use recycled material verge. And the
Speaker 2: other obvious way it's costing us money is disposing of
Speaker 2: Protestant landfill. The less obvious ways are all of this
Speaker 2: extraction of natural resources, it harms our environment and that
Speaker 2: causes pollution, It causes health issues. The transportation of all
Speaker 2: of this waste to landfills causes huge amounts of pollution
Speaker 2: with these trucks rolling around, but it also damages our
Speaker 2: roads and highways. These are eighteen wheelers rolling around our
Speaker 2: highways causing a lot of damage, and it's completely unnecessary
Speaker 2: so there's some very clear direct cost, and then there's
Speaker 2: a number of externalities as well that that cost is
Speaker 2: borne by the average citizen. And the element of what
Speaker 2: I would call severe unfairness is that if you do
Speaker 2: a great job recycling or you do a great job reusing,
Speaker 2: your tax burden is very luck you're not really sending
Speaker 2: anything to landfill. But if your neighbor is somebody that says,
Speaker 2: I don't care about any of this stuff, I'm lazy,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to throw everything in the garbage. The
Speaker 2: way our system is structured today is your tax dollars
Speaker 2: will be partially used to pay for the disposal of
Speaker 2: their items and landfill. Because the way we're structured is
Speaker 2: everybody just kind of shares in the cost of disposal,
Speaker 2: and that's completely unfair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been some I know we're talking a lot
Speaker 1: about trash and that's a lot of what this is about.
Speaker 1: But I know that there are some cities who will
Speaker 1: approach it and that you purchase a bag, your trash
Speaker 1: has to go in that bag, So then you're only
Speaker 1: paying for however many trash bags, which, yeah, that seems
Speaker 1: a bit more just for I'm going to pay for
Speaker 1: the amount of waste that I actually use. But I
Speaker 1: think it seems to me as though when we talk
Speaker 1: about the linear economy, that's what we're talking about. We're
Speaker 1: talking about trash and how it's just easy. You mentioned
Speaker 1: being yeah, I'm just lazy. It's the easiest route and
Speaker 1: the way it's set up, that's the path of least
Speaker 1: resistance to just use it once, throw it away. But
Speaker 1: when we talk about a circular economy, there's a whole
Speaker 1: lot more involved in that that I think touches on
Speaker 1: a lot more aspects of our personhood and lifestyles, that
Speaker 1: is more creative, does engage with more problem solving, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot more components to explore versus just the
Speaker 1: trash that happens in a linear economy.
Speaker 2: The end of life of the product is the last
Speaker 2: point in the chain, and what we want to think
Speaker 2: about from the beginning of the chain is material signs.
Speaker 2: Can we come up with new types of materials that
Speaker 2: don't involve any extraction, and then can we use product
Speaker 2: design to design products and solutions that use less material
Speaker 2: So I'll give you a couple of examples, so to stream,
Speaker 2: I'll use that example first because they're not a portfolio
Speaker 2: companies of ours.
Speaker 1: So we can rag on them.
Speaker 2: Well no, no, I mean, but you want to think that
Speaker 2: I'm just sort of promoting one of my companies.
Speaker 6: Neutral.
Speaker 2: Neutral, Yeah, neutral. So let's take soda Stream as an example.
Speaker 2: So to Stream is a great example of innovation and
Speaker 2: entrepreneurship where a system was developed where if you want
Speaker 2: great tasting seltzer, you can get great tasting seltzer without
Speaker 2: all of the packaging. You can just make the seltzer
Speaker 2: at home with one body. So that's a good example
Speaker 2: of product design where you're actually providing additional convenience to
Speaker 2: the customer, you're helping them reduce costs, and you're preserving
Speaker 2: our natural resources in the environment. So that's a good
Speaker 2: example of innovative product design that got the scale.
Speaker 5: I love how you talk about sustainability as being profitable
Speaker 5: because so often we think of it as you have
Speaker 5: to sacrifice profitability for sustainability, or you have to spend
Speaker 5: more in order to be sustainable. But that is I mean,
Speaker 5: that myth is getting debunked.
Speaker 2: That myth is a hoax that decade was perpetuated by
Speaker 2: the fossil fuel industry, the landfill industry, to make people
Speaker 2: think that yeah, you can go be sustainable, but it's
Speaker 2: going to cost us money. Now, behind the scenes, the
Speaker 2: fossil fuel industry was getting federal and state tax substance.
Speaker 2: It was a complete hoax. It is a complete hoax.
Speaker 2: It's much less expensive to live a sustainable less alt.
Speaker 2: And actually, if you look back pre nineteen fifty, and
Speaker 2: this is one of the things I cover in the book,
Speaker 2: all of the marketing that we got in the United
Speaker 2: States was focused on two things, quality over quantity. Quality
Speaker 2: over quantity, and the recycling of our paper, metal, glass,
Speaker 2: and plastic as a patriotic duty. Because if you have
Speaker 2: to extract natural resources, you're harming land in the US.
Speaker 2: But also if you end up being dependent on natural
Speaker 2: resources from foreign countries, especially if they're not friendly to us,
Speaker 2: that's not really good for our national defense. And so
Speaker 2: that's what you saw pre nineteen fifty, quality over quantity
Speaker 2: and recycling as a patriotic duty. Post nineteen fifty, there
Speaker 2: was a concerted effort by some major industries to change
Speaker 2: that messaging that people saw, and the messaging in the
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties and sixties changed from it's about quality to
Speaker 2: your status is directly connected to just how much stuff
Speaker 2: you have. It doesn't matter if it's like good stuff,
Speaker 2: it's going to last a long time. It's just about
Speaker 2: how much stuff you have. And it went to, hey,
Speaker 2: don't worry about recycling like you just put it out
Speaker 2: and it'll all just disappear, and we'll make you think
Speaker 2: it's all free, have it go away, and it's a
Speaker 2: it's a complete hoax that unfortunately a lot of a
Speaker 2: few industries made a lot of money off the back
Speaker 2: of taxpayers and consumers. But living a sustainable life, it's
Speaker 2: much healthier for you and your family, and you're going
Speaker 2: to save a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It is quite striking to see the change that you've
Speaker 1: pointed out in just seventy years, Like nineteen fifty was
Speaker 1: not that long ago. And we used to as Americans,
Speaker 1: have a reduce, reuse, repurpose, be creative with your resources,
Speaker 1: be good stewards of it. And then that switch that
Speaker 1: has happened. And I think many of us might claim, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not victim to advertising, but really, my goodness, in
Speaker 1: seventy years the shift that you have described, and how
Speaker 1: many of us have bought into that and haven't even
Speaker 1: thought twice about the way that we utilize products. This
Speaker 1: is just how it is. We use things once and
Speaker 1: we throw it away. And even the potential of manufacturers
Speaker 1: making things intended to break like quality isn't I mean,
Speaker 1: I hear my grandparents saying they don't make it like
Speaker 1: they used to.
Speaker 5: And you have the stories in your book, Like I
Speaker 5: was shocked when I was reading some of the intentional
Speaker 5: stories of early manufacturers, like the light bulb people getting
Speaker 5: together with their competitors ensuring that everybody creates light bulbs
Speaker 5: that will not last past one thousand.
Speaker 2: Hours, then you got to buy more light.
Speaker 5: Bulbs, and knowing that there's still like there's a video
Speaker 5: camera on a light bulb that's been been shining for
Speaker 5: what like a hundred years or something, and the light
Speaker 5: bulb has outlasted three webcams the people.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true. And that's an example that I use
Speaker 2: in a book because I thought that would be an
Speaker 2: example that everybody could relate to, because everyone has the
Speaker 2: experience of every year a light bulb going dead, you
Speaker 2: got to change the light bulb, and so on and
Speaker 2: so forth, And so you read about the reality that
Speaker 2: the original light bulbs over one hundred years ago were
Speaker 2: capable of maintaining themselves for years. But the light bulb
Speaker 2: manufacturers realized, wait second, if we make light bulbs that
Speaker 2: last for years, that's going to cut into our profits.
Speaker 2: If we make light bulbs that run out after a
Speaker 2: certain amount of time, people will have to spend money
Speaker 2: to buy more. That was an example I used in
Speaker 2: the book because I thought it was something everybody could
Speaker 2: relate to. Unfortunately, there's dozens of stories like that. A
Speaker 2: more modern story is, let's look at a lot of
Speaker 2: the smartphone technology that we have. Smartphones are amazing. I'm
Speaker 2: in my forties. When I was a teenager, so just
Speaker 2: you know, a little over twenty years ago, if somebody
Speaker 2: tried to describe a smartphone, people would have thought you
Speaker 2: were out of your mind, like you were talking super
Speaker 2: futuristic type scenarios. So the designers and developers of smartphones,
Speaker 2: these are incredibly brilliant people. It's hard for me to
Speaker 2: believe that they're brilliance ends at the ability to develop
Speaker 2: something that can't always just use the same charger, right, It's.
Speaker 3: Always the charger.
Speaker 2: It's always the charger.
Speaker 1: You're just happened with my phone last night?
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like you're telling me that this amazing iPhone
Speaker 2: or Samsung phone that you developed. It can take pictures,
Speaker 2: I can watch movies, I can watch sports on it,
Speaker 2: I can do email, I can do all of this
Speaker 2: amazing stuff. But you couldn't figure out how the next
Speaker 2: version of it uses the same charger as the previous one.
Speaker 2: That's intentional. That's a revenue generating opportunity to just get
Speaker 2: you to buy another charger. That's the kind of stuff
Speaker 2: that we need to start stripping out of our manufacturing
Speaker 2: systems and our society because it's pushing costs onto the
Speaker 2: consumer that shouldn't be there, and it's pushing disposal of
Speaker 2: products that are completely un necessary. Those chargers that don't
Speaker 2: work anymore on phones have to be thrown out. Those
Speaker 2: companies aren't taking the responsibility for picking them up and
Speaker 2: throwing them out on their dime. Their thing. You consumer,
Speaker 2: you figure it out, and that's not an efficient system.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Another thing that I found shocking from the book was
Speaker 5: the concept of obsolescence by desire, Like that wasn't like
Speaker 5: manufacturing goods. That break wasn't good enough for manufacturers, it
Speaker 5: wasn't fast enough, so then they turned to advertising to
Speaker 5: make people think they needed new stuff, and that was
Speaker 5: so much quicker. And I think that's something I mean,
Speaker 5: that's the main thing that we talk about on this
Speaker 5: show is to not be like tricked by that, yeah,
Speaker 5: but to read it was crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So your listeners that may have been fans of
Speaker 2: mad Men, this is actually what the show was about.
Speaker 2: Post World War Two, this advertising industry grew exponentially. There's
Speaker 2: always been advertising, but post World War Two, this industry
Speaker 2: grew exponentially. And the whole focus of that show is
Speaker 2: how do we hawk this product? How do we spin
Speaker 2: a story to make the consumer believe that their personal
Speaker 2: status is directly connected to owning this product. And what
Speaker 2: you find interesting about mad Men is there's not a
Speaker 2: lot of satisfaction in the characters on the show, right.
Speaker 2: The show isn't full of people who go, Wow, I
Speaker 2: come into work every day and I get the Hawk products,
Speaker 2: whether or not I believe in the product or not.
Speaker 2: I mean, my focus is really on, like I got
Speaker 2: to convince someone else that they absolutely need this product. Wow,
Speaker 2: I'm just I just feel so personally fulfilled. That's not
Speaker 2: the story, right, They're all struggled with, like what am
Speaker 2: I doing. But that's effectively what happened in the nineteen
Speaker 2: fifties is we started moving our economy towards one of
Speaker 2: we just need to maintain this massive industry we've built
Speaker 2: around the World War Two, which was really important industry.
Speaker 2: It helped us win the war, but it really should
Speaker 2: have been unwound or focused more on parts of the
Speaker 2: economy that actually betefit citizens. Unfortunately, it transition itself into
Speaker 2: one of make as much stuff as possible and just
Speaker 2: hawk the hell out of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like, you just had a really couple tough years.
Speaker 5: Do you deserve literally all the stuff? And I think
Speaker 5: we've brought that mindset for the last seventy years. You're going,
Speaker 5: you know, life is hard, you deserve stuff. I mean,
Speaker 5: that's the mindset we live by.
Speaker 2: And what psychologists have shown us is that what makes
Speaker 2: you happy isn't lots of stuff. What makes you happy
Speaker 2: is your family and relationships, your friendships, and the satisfaction
Speaker 2: you get out of what you do for a living
Speaker 2: and how much you have. It's not core to your happiness.
Speaker 2: Everybody likes nice things, but the nice part of it
Speaker 2: is the key, which is what you should be focusing
Speaker 2: on is As a consumer, I want quality. I want
Speaker 2: something that looks good, it feels good, it lasts a
Speaker 2: long time. When I no longer want it, because I
Speaker 2: know that it was made well and designed with a
Speaker 2: certain aesthetic, I'll be able to sell it to somebody
Speaker 2: else and recoup some of the value. And if my
Speaker 2: aesthetic has changed, or I just my lifestyle is changed,
Speaker 2: I'll go out and get something else it's again designed well,
Speaker 2: high quality materials, so on and so for. When we
Speaker 2: talk about consumerism, that's what we should be talking about.
Speaker 2: Not the route to my happiness is just how much
Speaker 2: stuff I have.
Speaker 6: Whether or not it was made well or not, and
Speaker 6: how cheap can I get it?
Speaker 2: How can I get it? The question like how cheap
Speaker 2: can I get it? You also have to think about,
Speaker 2: like what kind of person do I want to be?
Speaker 2: Because if you're buying a four dollars T shirt, that
Speaker 2: means that there's somebody someplace in the world that was
Speaker 2: paid so little to make that sure that that company
Speaker 2: could get the cotton, make the shirt, transport it to
Speaker 2: the store for you to buy it. That means somebody
Speaker 2: was paid so little that we were able to get
Speaker 2: it for four dollars. You have to also have to
Speaker 2: just think about like what kind of person do I
Speaker 2: want to be, and what kind of system do I
Speaker 2: want to participate in? And if I saw making this,
Speaker 2: like how would I feel about it?
Speaker 1: And how well am I going to care for something
Speaker 1: that I only spent four dollars on? When am I
Speaker 1: going to need another four dollars shirt probably in a
Speaker 1: month from now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right? And then and then it gets then
Speaker 2: it gets thrown out right and got to go to landfill.
Speaker 2: And we have a weird sense of patriotism in America
Speaker 2: where we'll say things like American made. We want manufacturing
Speaker 2: in the US, but when I go to the store,
Speaker 2: I want the cheapest thing possible, which obviously means that
Speaker 2: it's got to get made someplace where there's no labor laws.
Speaker 2: So we have this weird sense of patriotism in America
Speaker 2: where we espould certain values, but we're not willing to
Speaker 2: pay for those values. And that's a challenge I think
Speaker 2: as a society we need to overcome and understand the
Speaker 2: ramifications of of then how it's all interconnected. When when
Speaker 2: you have somebody who can barely survive working in a
Speaker 2: factory and a developing country making our T shirts. But
Speaker 2: they're going to ultimately try to do is they're going
Speaker 2: to try to get to America and make a better
Speaker 2: life for themselves. So if you want to solve the
Speaker 2: immigration issue in the US, think about who's making your
Speaker 2: products and how poorly they're being treated, and create a
Speaker 2: motivation for them to stay with their and their home
Speaker 2: and their family where they want to be by giving
Speaker 2: them a livable weight.
Speaker 6: I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow, my drab bron Yeah.
Speaker 5: Okay, So let's talk about some like some actionable tips,
Speaker 5: like what are because most waste is created I think
Speaker 5: it's created at the manufacturing level, if I've heard that right, So, like,
Speaker 5: we're not the manufacturers. We can do what we can,
Speaker 5: but like, what are the most significant things we can
Speaker 5: do to promote a circular economy, like whether at home
Speaker 5: or urging companies to change.
Speaker 2: It's a great question, and different people have different interests.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give a few things that people
Speaker 2: can do depending on what their interests are. So, if
Speaker 2: you're somebody that's very active politically, great opportunity to go
Speaker 2: to your local political officials and say how much are
Speaker 2: we spending on landfills? I want to know why are
Speaker 2: my tax dollars being used to send all this material
Speaker 2: to landfills? Like, there's lots of examples of cities and
Speaker 2: communities around the country and around the world that robust
Speaker 2: recycling systems where this material is getting collected and process
Speaker 2: and sold. So if you're someone who is interested in politics,
Speaker 2: get engaged around this issue of we should be manufacturing
Speaker 2: in the United States. We have all of these commodities
Speaker 2: through the products we have, and we don't want to
Speaker 2: be sending things to landfill anymore. And the good news
Speaker 2: is there's a lot of bipartisan initiatives right now focused
Speaker 2: on building circular economy and recycling research. So that's something
Speaker 2: you can do if you're interested in politics. If you're
Speaker 2: just somebody at home wanting to do the right thing
Speaker 2: by the environment but also save money, make sure you're
Speaker 2: recycling everything possible, really understand how to recycle. If you've
Speaker 2: got a local curbside organics program where your city's not
Speaker 2: collecting your food waste, make sure you're giving your food
Speaker 2: waste for composting. So that's something you do. Then, if
Speaker 2: you're really interested in product design, and products when you're
Speaker 2: at the supermarket. We're at the store, research the products
Speaker 2: you're buying and make sure that they're using as much
Speaker 2: recycled content as possible, Understand the materials that are being used,
Speaker 2: and try to shop responsibly or in a way that
Speaker 2: aligns with your values.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Yeah, spending in alignment with your values. It does
Speaker 5: result in actually spending less, like consuming less. And yeah,
Speaker 5: that's like the first part.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's not even to mention investment. Right, You've
Speaker 1: got closed loop partners where you can even be wealth
Speaker 1: building in this.
Speaker 2: Vein, right, So so thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2: So that's the other thing is if you're interested in investing,
Speaker 2: if you over the last decade focused on investing in
Speaker 2: renewable energy, electric vehicles, recycling systems, you would have made
Speaker 2: a lot more money than if you would have said,
Speaker 2: I want to stay in exceon mobile, I want to
Speaker 2: stay in cars companies that aren't going electric. I want
Speaker 2: to invest in landfill operators. So if you're an investor,
Speaker 2: this is definitely where the world is going, and it's
Speaker 2: going there for a very important reason, which is the
Speaker 2: more sustainable a company is, the more transparent they tend
Speaker 2: to be meaning they're proud to tell you the materials
Speaker 2: they use, where those materials come from, the labor that
Speaker 2: they use, how their supply chain operates. They're proud of it.
Speaker 2: It's something that they have designed with efficiency in mind.
Speaker 2: And what do you want as an investor. You want
Speaker 2: to maximize transparency, You want to mitigate risk, you don't
Speaker 2: want any surprises. You want as much information as you
Speaker 2: possibly can get. And that's what you're going to get
Speaker 2: out of investing in investment firms like Closer Partners it
Speaker 2: focuses on circular economy and recycling, or other firms that
Speaker 2: do it, or just through public equities that are focused
Speaker 2: in this area.
Speaker 1: The beautiful thing about what you're saying, too, is that
Speaker 1: as we move towards this more circular economy and make
Speaker 1: both macro and micro level changes, it does save us
Speaker 1: money again on the macro lene and the micro level,
Speaker 1: which I know we want to do. We don't want
Speaker 1: to be spending as much. We want to be saving more,
Speaker 1: we want to be earning more, we want to be
Speaker 1: building wealth, and all of this aligns beautifully. We're not
Speaker 1: sacrificing one thing for the other to be content with
Speaker 1: the products that we have to have quality over quantity.
Speaker 1: To be concerned about the level of items going to
Speaker 1: the landfill impacts our taxes. Like I love that every
Speaker 1: single thing that we've talked about does benefit us on
Speaker 1: the micro level.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know what else benefits us? John, the micro every
Speaker 1: level the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week.
Speaker 3: Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Speaker 3: Maybe you paid off your mortgage.
Speaker 2: Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have
Speaker 2: to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 3: Duck bills, Bffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill
Speaker 3: of the week. Ron.
Speaker 5: Every week we invite one of our listeners or our
Speaker 5: guests to share with us their bill for the week.
Speaker 6: So, do you have a bill for us today?
Speaker 2: I do, And I really like this concept that you
Speaker 2: do because it forces you to really think creatively about
Speaker 2: how to connect dots. And so my bill of the
Speaker 2: week is going to be Bill Moyer's. Bill Moyers used
Speaker 2: to he's getting up there in age, But Bill Moriers,
Speaker 2: for most of his career, has produced exceptional documentaries. And
Speaker 2: I've always learned a tremendous amount watching Bill Moyer's documentaries,
Speaker 2: and one comes to mind which I would recommend to
Speaker 2: everybody to listen to, which is The Power of Myth,
Speaker 2: which is about Joseph Campbell. And I bring that up
Speaker 2: because I think studying history is a really important way
Speaker 2: to understand the system that you're living in today and
Speaker 2: why it was constructed that way, and to just have
Speaker 2: greater self awareness. So Bill Moyer's would be my Bill
Speaker 2: of the week.
Speaker 1: We can't know where we're going if we don't know
Speaker 1: where we came from. We've never had this one before,
Speaker 1: so yeah, we love Donnie.
Speaker 6: Got like a person. Bill. Those are my Those are
Speaker 6: my favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. My husband just
Speaker 1: this week was saying how he really wanted to watch
Speaker 1: a documentary but was having a hard time finding one
Speaker 1: that interested him. And so here we go. I know
Speaker 1: what we're doing this week.
Speaker 2: Anything, Yes, I think by Bill Moyers will be an
Speaker 2: exceptional learning experience and just help you think about just
Speaker 2: systems and structures and where we came from and how
Speaker 2: we live today. I really liked the Power of Myth
Speaker 2: by Joseph Campbell, which was a book that Joseph Campbell wrote,
Speaker 2: but Bill Moyers did a special series interviewing Joseph Campbell
Speaker 2: on it. But he's got lots of great documentaries that
Speaker 2: that he's done on all different topics. So I thought
Speaker 2: it was a great question for a podcast. I wanted
Speaker 2: to come up with an answer that hopefully is unique
Speaker 2: and uh and full of unique expense.
Speaker 1: Oh I know, and clearly we like creativity and problem solving,
Speaker 1: and you did both today. So if you all who
Speaker 1: are listening want to submit your bill of the week,
Speaker 1: you've got something creative. You've solved the problem. You know,
Speaker 1: a guy named Bill. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com
Speaker 1: slash Bill. Leave us your bill. You know we love
Speaker 1: to hear it.
Speaker 5: Yes, so now it's time for we do a lot
Speaker 5: of noises and singing and yelling.
Speaker 1: It gets exciting in the second position, right, I mean
Speaker 1: exciting the first time.
Speaker 6: So today we're going to share.
Speaker 5: This is where we kind of get a little more personal,
Speaker 5: like what we're doing to promote the circular economy personally.
Speaker 5: So Ron, as our guest, we would love it for
Speaker 5: you to go first. You're going to have the best answer,
Speaker 5: and our answers are going to are going to paling comparison.
Speaker 5: But we are very excited to hear what you say.
Speaker 3: First.
Speaker 2: What I am doing to promote the circular economy is
Speaker 2: to try to build the most successful investment firm focused
Speaker 2: on backing the most brilliant entrepreneurs building solutions for the
Speaker 2: circular economy.
Speaker 5: Nice, what's like one that you're really excited? I know
Speaker 5: they're like children and you shouldn't pick a favorite, but like,
Speaker 5: what are you really excited about right now?
Speaker 6: What's one of them?
Speaker 1: Which one is the.
Speaker 2: For that preface? Because yes, fifty portfolio companies and I
Speaker 2: love them all equally. Way. One that we're very excited
Speaker 2: about is home Biogas, which is a company based in
Speaker 2: Israel that's developed the first household sized anaerobic digester. Anaerobic
Speaker 2: digesters convert food waste and biological waste into gas and so.
Speaker 2: In the United States, a lot of the wastewater treatment
Speaker 2: facilities have large digesters. These are like fifty to two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million dollars type facilities that turn biosolids
Speaker 2: into energy. Some unicipalities now have anaerobic digesters for food waste.
Speaker 2: A number of dairy farms have them, but these are big, big,
Speaker 2: multimillion dollar facilities. No one's ever figured out how to
Speaker 2: miniaturize the technology down to the household level, and home
Speaker 2: Biogas has been able to develop a small anaerobic digester
Speaker 2: that looks like an appliance. You put it into your backyard,
Speaker 2: you put all of your food waste into it. It converts
Speaker 2: it into get as that can pump into your hot
Speaker 2: water heater or into your stove. So home biogas dot
Speaker 2: Com check them out. We're super excited about them. Totally disruptive,
Speaker 2: and back to the earlier point on our conversation, a
Speaker 2: great example of how sustainability saves money. You take all
Speaker 2: of your food waste and rather than sticking it in
Speaker 2: the garbage where your city's going to use its tax
Speaker 2: dollars to ship it to a landfill, instead, you take
Speaker 2: that food waste and you put in your home biogas system,
Speaker 2: and now you're generating your own gas for cooking or
Speaker 2: for hot water, which also saves you money. So that's
Speaker 2: one portfolio company that I'm very excited about.
Speaker 1: Oh it's amazing. I love hearing about such cool innovative
Speaker 1: things that utilize, yeah, your waste and then make it productive.
Speaker 1: It's people are brilliant, it's amazing. Yeah, all right, my turn, Jill. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I am turning my food waste into sustainable.
Speaker 3: Funny you should say that.
Speaker 1: No, So it's very very simple. I think some of
Speaker 1: the things that I'm doing, but again hailing back to
Speaker 1: my days of tiny living, it really connected me to
Speaker 1: my waste, the amount of water that I was using.
Speaker 1: Just ever, I mean, you're very connected to all of
Speaker 1: your waste in some really gross ways but in some
Speaker 1: really challenging ways too when you live tiny. And I
Speaker 1: think some of those things have carried over. But a
Speaker 1: little part of me does die when I throw things out.
Speaker 1: So I have been looking at how do I stop
Speaker 1: doing that One very very small thing that I've realized
Speaker 1: when I go grocery shopping, So if I can't get
Speaker 1: to the farmer's market or find a place where I
Speaker 1: can just like purchase produce, if I'm at the grocery
Speaker 1: store purchasing produce, I stopped using the plastic bags, like
Speaker 1: you know, the plastic bags in the produce section where
Speaker 1: you could just like shove your apples into. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't. Actually, I'm just gonna get home and I'm
Speaker 1: going to throw all of this away. So I bring
Speaker 1: in my own bags, and Okay, if I don't want
Speaker 1: them sitting in the shopping cart, fine, I'll put them
Speaker 1: into the bag. And then yes, I'm gonna have to wash.
Speaker 1: You want to get home because they're sitting on the
Speaker 1: conveyor belt, and who knows what was on the conveyor belt.
Speaker 1: But it feels a lot better to not come home
Speaker 1: and just immediately within thirty minutes throw a ton more
Speaker 1: plastic into the trash. So that's something tiny. And I've
Speaker 1: been mending my own clothing. I've been buying significantly less clothing,
Speaker 1: thank you, Tiny Living. And if it's broken, I mend it.
Speaker 1: So I like my clothes and I want to keep
Speaker 1: them and imend them. And that's that.
Speaker 2: I think those are all excellent examples for your listeners.
Speaker 2: It's amazing, over the course of the year how many
Speaker 2: plastic bags we use at the supermarket for our produce,
Speaker 2: completely unnecessarily, and that just shows you the inefficiency in
Speaker 2: the system. Like the supermarket is buying all of those bags,
Speaker 2: and they're passing that cost off to the consumers because
Speaker 2: they have to cover those costs, and then we as
Speaker 2: consumers use those bags. It's completely unnecessary. You can just
Speaker 2: put it in your shopping cart and put it in
Speaker 2: your shopping bag and go home. And then at home
Speaker 2: we have all these plastic bags that we literally used
Speaker 2: for maybe an hour and then we just throw it
Speaker 2: in the garb. So love that example, thanks Ron. Love
Speaker 2: the fact that you mend your own clothes. We actually
Speaker 2: need an industry in the United States where people men
Speaker 2: close again, fix electronics. Again. So love all of those examples.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yes, yeah, it's sim It's not needed most
Speaker 1: of the ways that we approach. And mind you, you
Speaker 1: are paying for that plastic right like they offer it
Speaker 1: like it's free, but like you're paying for it in
Speaker 1: the pricing of the produce.
Speaker 2: That's what I mean by all of these hidden costs
Speaker 2: in the system is you're just grabbing these plastic bags.
Speaker 2: People don't stop to think for a moment. They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: the supermarket boss these because they think I want them.
Speaker 2: But they're going to have to cover their costs, and
Speaker 2: so that cost gets passed on. And this is what
Speaker 2: I mean by like, we got to break that system
Speaker 2: and avoid all these unnecessary costs.
Speaker 1: Mmmm, Jen, what you got for us?
Speaker 5: So I have a few wins lately on the subject
Speaker 5: of grocery bags. So I do grocery pickup and din't
Speaker 5: like they just put every individual it am in a
Speaker 5: plastic bag.
Speaker 6: It's so useless.
Speaker 5: But like, so I will there's the other grocery store
Speaker 5: near me has like the recycling for those plastic bags,
Speaker 5: because we can't just throw them in our regular recycling.
Speaker 5: And so I will hoard these bags and get like
Speaker 5: a big bushel of them and then take them to
Speaker 5: the grocery store. And one time I was like taking
Speaker 5: my carrying my bushel and a lady she's like, thank
Speaker 5: you so much, and I was like, you're welcome.
Speaker 6: So yeah, do that with my bags.
Speaker 5: But yeah, so I My most recent win is I
Speaker 5: try to buy as much clothing as possible secondhand. But
Speaker 5: genes have been something I've had a real problem with.
Speaker 5: But I've devoted myself like to buying new genes, to
Speaker 5: really like buying quality and buying them secondhand. And so
Speaker 5: I went to Nordstrum and I tried on all the
Speaker 5: nice sustainable genes so I could find my size. Foum
Speaker 5: the size went to the saved all my sizes and
Speaker 5: stuff and saved searches on threadups. So I could find
Speaker 5: when the good genes in my size come up, then
Speaker 5: it sends me an alert so I can see if
Speaker 5: I want them or not. But then I also went
Speaker 5: into our local it's like a it's like a local consignment,
Speaker 5: it's like a play it's closet, but it's local, and
Speaker 5: found a pair in my size that are not just
Speaker 5: like good quality, but they're the ones that are like
Speaker 5: also like, we make our genes sustainably too, So I
Speaker 5: got sustainable genes that are good quality secondhand and that.
Speaker 6: Feel so good. And so I just felt like a
Speaker 6: real winner that day.
Speaker 2: You were. You were a real winner that day.
Speaker 1: Ron says, you were.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Story, and it's a great example for your listeners
Speaker 2: and one that every everyone listening can can replicate. It's
Speaker 2: a it's a great story on the example you gave
Speaker 2: on the plastic bags. We're running a major initiative at
Speaker 2: Closed Loop Partners on reinventing the user experience around shopping
Speaker 2: and what those bags look like. It's called Reinvent the Bag.
Speaker 2: So if any of your listeners want to Google reinvent
Speaker 2: the Bag, or go to our website and look for
Speaker 2: it if they're interested in that area. That's one thing
Speaker 2: that's a major focus of ours is how do we
Speaker 2: reinvent the consumer experience to make sure people can easily
Speaker 2: get the things that they need but avoid all of
Speaker 2: those bags.
Speaker 1: Another thing you can do with those bags is weave
Speaker 1: them into blankets for the homeless. I mean, you can
Speaker 1: also just give them like good blankets, but apparently the
Speaker 1: installation factor of them are decent.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing about plastic is that it's this
Speaker 2: bag that was made to use once. But the way
Speaker 2: plastic is designed is it doesn't really break down. So
Speaker 2: from the perspective of beature, it's extremely dangerous. From a
Speaker 2: usability standpoint, plastic can be a great product. Yeah, literally
Speaker 2: make it into blankets for homeless and it'll be water
Speaker 2: proof and generate heats. It's important for people listening to
Speaker 2: understand like plastic in and of itself isn't necessarily that
Speaker 2: plastic has a lot of major benefits. It's super lightweight,
Speaker 2: it can be formed into multiple shapes, so there's a
Speaker 2: lot of benefits to plastic. The key is it can
Speaker 2: never be virgin plastic because that means that there's a
Speaker 2: fossil fuel extracted. We should be using material science to
Speaker 2: develop plastics that can be manufactured in labs, and whatever
Speaker 2: plastic is out in the market, we have to make
Speaker 2: sure that we're always always recycling it to make sure
Speaker 2: that it never ends up in nature.
Speaker 1: Beautiful ron Where can people get more from you? Your book?
Speaker 1: More knowledge from you? If this is an exciting topic,
Speaker 1: How do people get at you?
Speaker 2: There's my book The Waste Free World that people can
Speaker 2: learn about the history of the linear economy, the circular economy.
Speaker 2: There's lots of really fun and interesting stories in there.
Speaker 2: So that's one area to learn about the circular economy.
Speaker 2: And other area is if you go to our website
Speaker 2: Closingpartners dot com and you just look at our different
Speaker 2: portfolio companies with about fifty companies all doing really innovative
Speaker 2: things in the circular economy. That's also a great way
Speaker 2: to learn about innovative solutions and great companies in the
Speaker 2: circular economy.
Speaker 5: That's awesome, and the book will definitely make you rethink
Speaker 5: the things that you may have taken for granted and
Speaker 5: definitely make you double think about the waste that you're producing.
Speaker 5: I know it did for me, so I highly highly
Speaker 5: recommend the book.
Speaker 6: It's great.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. So much for saying that, and
Speaker 2: any of your listeners that get the book, I hope
Speaker 2: they enjoy it and also learn from it and love
Speaker 2: to always hear from people about.
Speaker 3: What they thought excellent.
Speaker 1: Thank you so so much, Ron for being with us
Speaker 1: today for sharing about the circular economy. It's been a blast,
Speaker 1: all right.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, guys. It's great to be with
Speaker 2: you today.
Speaker 3: Whoo.
Speaker 1: Well, that was fun re listening to that interview when
Speaker 1: you all got a special treat of hearing Jen's voice again.
Speaker 1: She is still alive. She's just nursing a baby and
Speaker 1: trying to sleep whenever she can. So we got Chloe
Speaker 1: here to wrap us up. But I do kind of
Speaker 1: want to give a follow up to that lightning round
Speaker 1: to say that I proudly am still using reusable bags
Speaker 1: at the grocery store. I bring in my own, even
Speaker 1: when the grocery store is offering them to me, I
Speaker 1: still bring in my own. I felt a little funny
Speaker 1: at first. That feeling has passed and I just I'm
Speaker 1: in my mid thirties now I don't really care what
Speaker 1: people think on anything about me, and it's getting worse
Speaker 1: and worse.
Speaker 4: Of beauty, Oh my gosh. I was at a wedding
Speaker 4: last week and my grandparents were there, and I was like,
Speaker 4: I haven't seen my grandpa in a while. And he
Speaker 4: came out to the pool wearing like his socks with
Speaker 4: his like flip flops and like had like a toothbrush
Speaker 4: just like sticking out of his like his pocket here.
Speaker 3: And I was like, man, I can't wait to get to.
Speaker 4: The level of no, no ass given, none, like none
Speaker 4: at all.
Speaker 1: And that's that's what scares me a little bit, because
Speaker 1: I do see that in people in their sixties, seventies, eighties,
Speaker 1: and and I'm a little concerned with where I already
Speaker 1: am in my mid thirties, like what will this produce?
Speaker 1: But you know what, probably great things free. How much
Speaker 1: I love seeing the elderly community just out there doing
Speaker 1: their thing, not.
Speaker 4: Caring one hundred percent. I carings. I think the key
Speaker 4: is to like still care about like social issues and
Speaker 4: to like stay up to date on like what matters,
Speaker 4: because obviously what we think is like cool and progressive
Speaker 4: now is going to be very different in twenty thirty
Speaker 4: forty years. But like you combine that with the like
Speaker 4: I don't care about anything, it's.
Speaker 3: This like it's this beautiful existence. I think.
Speaker 1: I hope I'm there to watch you on Instagram combine
Speaker 1: that beautiful seventies. Yeah, and I actually did the other day.
Speaker 1: Don't do this often, but I did mend clothes I had.
Speaker 1: I got to this point where I had a whole
Speaker 1: list of things that need that I liked and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to have to replace them. They just needed
Speaker 1: a little bit of patching up, and I did it
Speaker 1: and got something. It was something to do. You know,
Speaker 1: while I'm mending clothes, I can't be spending money, so
Speaker 1: that was nice, and I don't have to buy the
Speaker 1: things to replace them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I've done that a few times too, and I'm always like,
Speaker 4: this is actually easy. It's not the prettiest like patchwork,
Speaker 4: but yeah, you know it works.
Speaker 1: You weren't there for the interview, But do you have
Speaker 1: any things that you do that are more circular, more sustainable?
Speaker 4: So I have to admit I have never heard the
Speaker 4: phrase circular before, which I guess is revealing on my
Speaker 4: involvement in the sustainability community. It's not that I'm against it.
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm new to it. And I do love
Speaker 4: though that everything we do in terms of frugality. Almost
Speaker 4: everything is sustainable in a lot of ways, so I
Speaker 4: have a lot of that naturally, where like, for example,
Speaker 4: I will drive my car, which is a Prius, until
Speaker 4: it dies, period, end of story, because it's obviously I
Speaker 4: think it's wasteful to buy a new car every couple
Speaker 4: of years, but also it's a Prius, and I don't know,
Speaker 4: if you've seen the cost of car ownership in today's world,
Speaker 4: you know, I will do everything I can to ride
Speaker 4: ride my old Prius till it dies. Besides that, I
Speaker 4: mean it's something that I definitely think about a lot,
Speaker 4: like I do. I think a lot of the things
Speaker 4: I do are just kind of entrenched in my habits already,
Speaker 4: like bringing those plastic bags or bringing those reusable bags
Speaker 4: to the grocery store.
Speaker 3: All d makes it.
Speaker 4: Easy because it's like everybody's doing that. You don't even
Speaker 4: you don't even give you a choice. Yeah, you don't
Speaker 4: even think about it. And I think it's interesting too,
Speaker 4: because I also think the mindset around sustainability varies so
Speaker 4: heavily based off of where you live, because like when
Speaker 4: you're in California, everyone's thinking about it, everyone's doing the things.
Speaker 4: There's it'd be weird if you didn't bring your bags
Speaker 4: to the grocery store, Whereas in Arizona there's like not
Speaker 4: even recycling, Like nobody, none of the apartment complex have
Speaker 4: recycling people. And it depends on what part. Like in
Speaker 4: Phoenix or Scottsdale where I was at, I was in
Speaker 4: this huge apartment complex and there was no recycling, and
Speaker 4: I just remember just being like, Wow, this is weird.
Speaker 1: That's a weird thing to get used to. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been places like that, Like what where you mean you
Speaker 1: don't have a place for recycling?
Speaker 3: What do I do?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Do I put it in my bag into your hall? Yeah?
Speaker 4: And like I get the argument that a lot of
Speaker 4: the recycling that gets quote unquote recycled doesn't actually get recycled,
Speaker 4: So I get it, but it's like, at least I
Speaker 4: feel better, No, I'm doing what I can, you know,
Speaker 4: by by putting that recycling out. So yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: have a ton of different ways where I am actively
Speaker 4: doing it. And that actually, as I was like preparing
Speaker 4: for this question, I was like, apparently I need.
Speaker 3: To be better about this.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, called action though, that I mean,
Speaker 1: that's honest, And I think a great place where a
Speaker 1: lot of people are probably finding themselves, and even just
Speaker 1: engaging in that question is not even the beginning. That's
Speaker 1: like step ten, which is excellent, and you already do
Speaker 1: have examples. I think I love the heavy hitter of
Speaker 1: considering transportation because we love to talk about these smaller factors.
Speaker 1: And as much as I am glad that I take
Speaker 1: in my own bags, that's almost like the latte factor,
Speaker 1: where okay, but how much of a DN is. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying don't do it, but we're not going to
Speaker 1: make huge strides in our savings or spending goals if
Speaker 1: we're only cutting out the lattes and the cappuccinos. We
Speaker 1: also want to thinking about these things that make big
Speaker 1: impacts on the environment and on our budgets. And I
Speaker 1: think when we consider housing and transportation and really where
Speaker 1: we spend the most of our money is also where
Speaker 1: we can be considering some huge gains in sustainability as well.
Speaker 4: So for sure, I forgot probably the biggest examples. I
Speaker 4: don't eat meat and I don't drink alcohol. Hey yea,
Speaker 4: so those two alone are huge.
Speaker 3: I always forget about that. I'm like, oh yeah, I
Speaker 3: also live my.
Speaker 4: Life very sustainably in that aspect, and I've you know,
Speaker 4: I've read that one of the biggest things that you
Speaker 4: can do is even just cutting out meat once a week.
Speaker 4: And so I'm covered, guys, I got that.
Speaker 3: I'm covered.
Speaker 1: I'm making all the good decisions. Oh oh, I just remember,
Speaker 1: I'm amazing.
Speaker 3: I forgot. I'm basically a chance of sustainable I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: It's Bob Shell over here exactly.
Speaker 4: But no, it's like I said, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 4: think about it a lot because it's a lot of
Speaker 4: stuff that I do naturally, is like I don't eat meat.
Speaker 4: It didn't start out as a reason for climate change.
Speaker 4: It started out because I don't really like meat, and
Speaker 4: like it's not very healthy most of the time. And
Speaker 4: then the alcohol thing too, you know, it wasn't necessarily
Speaker 4: because of sustainability. It's just like one of those benefits
Speaker 4: that come from it, you know, all the bottle usage
Speaker 4: that you get from from drinking beer or whatever, you know,
Speaker 4: and then not only that, the alcohol plants and like
Speaker 4: the exhaust and all that stuff that comes off of that.
Speaker 4: I think in a way is sustainable. But yeah, it's
Speaker 4: just stuff that I don't think about and just doing
Speaker 4: it anyway.
Speaker 1: Love that. Well, friends, that's Chloe again.
Speaker 4: You should be following her champion out here very at least,
Speaker 4: I'm very honest.
Speaker 1: It's a basic bombshell champion doing what I can.
Speaker 4: Oh man, well, this is great, and thank you guys
Speaker 4: so much for listening. We love love reading your kind reviews,
Speaker 4: and we especially loved this one from doctor Cindy lu Who,
Speaker 4: which shout out to doctor Cindy lu Who because The
Speaker 4: Grinch is my favorite, Like it's like it's like my
Speaker 4: number one favorite movie during Christmas.
Speaker 3: I have to watch it like four times.
Speaker 4: Yes, but the title of her review was or Cindy
Speaker 4: lu Who, whatever your pronouns are, non judgmental financial advice.
Speaker 4: I love how affirming the hosts are. So many personal
Speaker 4: finance spaces rely on shame to motivate their audience, but
Speaker 4: Jen and Jail focus on learning about yourself and your values.
Speaker 4: I appreciate when they talk about seasons of life and
Speaker 4: acknowledge that priorities change over time.
Speaker 3: That's such a nice review.
Speaker 1: That is such a nice review. We love these nice reviews.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, doctor Cindy lu Who for just
Speaker 1: being so kind when so many people are choosing the
Speaker 1: opposite of kindness. Look at you, and I'm so thrilled
Speaker 1: that this has been a helpful space for you where
Speaker 1: you can find judgment free and helpful advice. Thank you
Speaker 1: everyone for listening, and if you enjoyed the show, please
Speaker 1: take a minute to leave a rating and review. It
Speaker 1: really does help potential new listeners to know what the
Speaker 1: show is about, that it is about friendship and fun
Speaker 1: and finances and like not just finances. And so your
Speaker 1: reviews helped to weed out the people who might not
Speaker 1: be a Frugal Friend. And we love that. And thank you,
Speaker 1: Cindy lu Who, and thank you Chloe, and thank you everyone,
Speaker 1: and thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you awards.
Speaker 4: Here's my acceptance speech, Cindy lou Who, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: All right with that, we'll see y'all next time.
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 6: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
Speaker 4: It's like I'm like picturing you standing up at a
Speaker 4: at a podium, just like I want to think, Mike.
Speaker 1: It started to feel that way to me, and I
Speaker 1: think especially because hearing someone else read their usually it's
Speaker 1: gener I reading the ratings and reviews and the membership
Speaker 1: wins and all of the time, so hearing you read it,
Speaker 1: and also your voice is so great too. I think
Speaker 1: the end of all of these episodes that you're on,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna fan out because I'm realizing you you
Speaker 1: don't talk that much on your Instagram. It's more like
Speaker 1: music and dancing and words across the screen. But you
Speaker 1: have a very great voice that thank you. I could
Speaker 1: read positive reviews, listen to positive reviews out of your
Speaker 1: mouth all day and it did. It felt like an
Speaker 1: award show to me.
Speaker 3: I am so honored.
Speaker 4: I just apparently anytime I need time, I need a hype,
Speaker 4: I just need to come onto the Frugal Friends podcast
Speaker 4: and be like, thank you.
Speaker 3: So much, Jill. I will take all of these compliments.
Speaker 4: It's funny though that you say that, because the money
Speaker 4: Bear podcast, I you know, started doing it last July,
Speaker 4: and the reason I started I was like, oh, talking
Speaker 4: is easy.
Speaker 3: I can. I can do this all day long, every day.
Speaker 3: And I love the sound of my own voice.
Speaker 4: And recently, I want to say it was like two
Speaker 4: months ago I was listening to a podcast with my
Speaker 4: friend career coach Darcy, and she's got a great podcast voice.
Speaker 3: She's very like very.
Speaker 4: Even keel, like just smooth, and I was listening and
Speaker 4: then when my part would come on, it sounded like
Speaker 4: I was yelling at her.
Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, Chloe, what are you doing?
Speaker 4: It was like, because I'm just so excited, high energy,
Speaker 4: it's like that almost that like presentation voice, and so
Speaker 4: I have had to start practicing like lowering my register
Speaker 4: just to not like yell.
Speaker 3: At people, like excitedly yelling people.
Speaker 4: So you have to go back and listen to that
Speaker 4: specific episode because I'm like, oh my, I can't even
Speaker 4: stand listening to myself. But I'm glad that I listened
Speaker 4: to myself because I'm like, Chloe, that is obnoxious.
Speaker 1: So it feels like my call to action. I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm so excited and hyped most of the time
Speaker 1: that I'm that I am yelling.
Speaker 4: No, I will say I've never felt and I don't
Speaker 4: think Darcy felt like I was yelling at her. I
Speaker 4: think she probably just thought I was like really excited,
Speaker 4: but I didn't get any yelling.
Speaker 3: Vibe your own impression.
Speaker 4: So yeah, everybody can go and listen to that episode
Speaker 4: and be like, yeah, you are kind of yelling.
Speaker 3: You know, it was like positive yelling, but don't leave.
Speaker 1: A bad review for it. No, she knows she's correcting.
Speaker 4: I'm working on it, so but hey, we're still new
Speaker 4: to the podcast. Do you ever listen to your early episodes?
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't think I did a while ago, and
Speaker 1: never again. It's so much, it's too cringey. But you know,
Speaker 1: everyone told us from the start, don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: just start put it out there. No one's going to
Speaker 1: go back and listen to that first episode. They do
Speaker 1: for years. That very first episode was the number one
Speaker 1: downloaded episode, I want to say, for at least the
Speaker 1: first two years of the podcast.
Speaker 4: And oh yeah, the ones, the ones I get the
Speaker 4: message on the most is my first one. It's the
Speaker 4: very first episode, and I'm like wow, And then I
Speaker 4: think about it. When I start to like a podcast,
Speaker 4: I do the same thing. I go back to the
Speaker 4: very first one to like listen to a few in order.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, it's just one of the things.
Speaker 3: They get it.
Speaker 4: They get to see and witness the growth in real time,
Speaker 4: and hopefully that's encouraging for them to start their own two.
Speaker 1: Oh ooh, look to talk about coming full circle podcast
Speaker 1: Circular ecolomy. Oh friends, your own.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is literally what I was thinking about last
Speaker 4: night was you know, I think so many people want
Speaker 4: to do something, like they want to start an Instagram account,
Speaker 4: they want to start creating content about something, but they
Speaker 4: often tell themselves, well, too many people are doing that
Speaker 4: right now. And I just think about, like, but somebody
Speaker 4: out there is starting today and you don't like they
Speaker 4: could be the next big thing, but it's because they
Speaker 4: just decided to start. And I was like, Wow, that's
Speaker 4: so profound, Like while I'm sitting on my toilet and
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, I need to share that.
Speaker 3: I need to tell people this.
Speaker 2: We're all we're.
Speaker 1: All on the toilet. Whish.
Speaker 3: I love that there's a profound thought to leave you
Speaker 3: guys with.
Speaker 1: Oh, hopefully you're also listening to this podcast on the toilet.
Speaker 3: That'd be fun too. Let us know, yes, please let
Speaker 3: us know