1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread Plus 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: at one Peloton dot com. 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting. 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 3: On here today? You're not interested in art? 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Now we look, we're going to do this thing. 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 3: We're going to have a conversation. Hey. Film spotters Adam 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 3: and Josh. 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: Here. 15 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 3: The Film Spotting Archive has reviews of Wes Anderson films 16 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 3: going back to two thousand and seven's The Darjeeling Limited, 17 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 3: plus Sacred col reviews of Rushmore and The Royal Tene Moms. 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 4: With Anderson's latest, The Phoenician Scheme, now in theaters, we're 19 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 4: sharing our review of his previous feature, twenty twenty three's 20 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 4: Asteroid City from June twenty twenty three. Pierce that review. 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 5: Junior stargazers and space cadets. Each year we celebrate Asteroid 22 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 5: Day commemorating September twenty third, three thousand and seven BC, 23 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 5: when the Arid planes meteorite made Earth impact. 24 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 3: Let's start this discussion by doing what every character and 25 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: we meet a lot of them, is trying to do. 26 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 3: An asteroid City, Get our bearings. Wes Anderson's latest is 27 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 3: a play within a play that's also a TV show. Okay, 28 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 3: that probably wasn't helpful. Let's try this. Actress Scarlett Johansson 29 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 3: portrays fictional actress Midge Campbell, who comes out West Asteroid 30 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: City with her junior stargazing star daughter, Midge Campbell. Well, 31 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 3: she's played by an actress from back East named Mercedes Ford. So, 32 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 3: as Anderson himself has explained, you're ultimately seeing an actress 33 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 3: playing an actress playing an actress. Now that we've got 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 3: that all cleared up, truthfully, I've almost surely oversold how 35 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: confusing the mid fifties set Asteroid City is while totally 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: underselling just how dense it is post war America and 37 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 3: the fractured men who return from battle, the mythic West, 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: the space Race, Broadway, and the actor's studio and Playhouse ninety, 39 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 3: not to mention direct references to the Cinema of Steven Spielberg. 40 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: It's as if Anderson created Asteroid City the movie and 41 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 3: the place to intermingle all of his greatest inspirations and influences. 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: Anderson said, when I started wanting to make movies, this 43 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: period was the center of everything. We were watching The 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: Godfather and Taxi Driver and Brian de Palma, but maybe 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: even more Marlon Brando and James Dean, Montgomery Cliff and 46 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: Elia Kazan the emotion of this period of movies and 47 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: their relationship to the stage. I want to get to 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: a question for you, Josh that may seem a little silly, 49 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 3: as I've just put forth why the play within a 50 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 3: play approach was always at the core of this project. 51 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 3: And this certainly isn't new territory, as we could run 52 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 3: through a litany of similar framing devices and meta layers 53 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: in Anderson's films. But I hope that it will provoke 54 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: us to really consider what the director is up to 55 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 3: here and how successfully he achieves it. Imagine that the 56 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 3: whole movie Asteroid City is comprised only of the events 57 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: that we see take place within Asteroid City, events that 58 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: already comprise the majority of the movie's runtime, Johansson's Midge 59 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: and her flirtations and existential musings, with Jason Schwartzman's Augie Steinbeck, 60 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: a war photographer now widower struggling to break the news 61 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: of his wife's death to his four children, Steve Carell's 62 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: industrious motel manager, Tilda Swinton's astronomer doctor Hickenlooper, Jeffrey writes, 63 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: General Griff, etc. Instead of these characters stemming from the 64 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: mind of Edward Norton's playwright Conrad Irp, they come only 65 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: from the mind of Anderson. No TV sound stages with 66 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 3: Brian Kranston playing the host, no black and white acting 67 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: class interactions, just all of these a little bit lost 68 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: souls coming together in the desert, forced to stay together 69 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: a little longer than planned following a close encounter of 70 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: the third kind. And I don't mean here imagine an 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 3: alternative version of the film Asteroid City. I'm saying this 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: is the only version we'd ever be aware of. I 73 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: think there's a pretty good chance that the two of 74 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: us and many other Anderson appreciators would have been satisfied 75 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: with that hermetically sealed off presentation of Asteroid City. What 76 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: will we have lost? 77 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: Though, great question, one that I was circling around as 78 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: those layers began to unfold. And I'm glad you noted 79 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 4: that you probably are making it sound more complicated than 80 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 4: it is, because that's true, and I don't want this 81 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 4: to scare off anyone, particularly people who thought the French 82 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 4: Dispatch was a little too dense for them. This to me, 83 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 4: is much simpler than that in terms of its construction. 84 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 4: But you're not incorrect to lay out all those layers. 85 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 4: They are there, the one you just asked me about. 86 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 4: I'll be honest, We're four or five days from seeing 87 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 4: Asteroid City. That's the one I'm still immersed in. I'm 88 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 4: immersed in that eighty percent screen time set in the 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 4: title town story, the characters there, what happens there, what 90 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 4: that might mean. I'm going to need another viewing, or 91 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 4: at least a couple more days until I start digging 92 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 4: deeper than that. I think that's partly because to your point, 93 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 4: I was satisfied with what I got there. I have 94 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 4: as much as I've loved his more recent films that 95 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 4: have added on the layers to the cake, so that 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 4: these are layer cake movies, which really started I think 97 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 4: in Earnest with Grand Budapest those again, have loved them all, 98 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 4: huge fan, but I connect more strongly with the more 99 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: straightforward narratives that he did previously, and so that's how 100 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: I've responded to this one as well. I'm not trying 101 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 4: to ignore those other layers. I'm going to have to 102 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 4: get to them a little later. And my reasoning is 103 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 4: I don't want to rush through it. I want to 104 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 4: enjoy what is taking place in Asteroid City, because, again, 105 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,239 Speaker 4: as you said, that could be a movie of its own. 106 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 4: What movie do I think that is. We'll get to that, 107 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 4: but I want to hear your response to that question 108 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 4: before we get there. I would say that, and you've 109 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 4: hinted at this, this could very much be a movie 110 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 4: entirely about the acting experience, what it means to be 111 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 4: an actor, the art of acting, how audiences receive acting. 112 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 4: That may be enough for what Asteroid City is about. 113 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 4: I think it's in that next layer that I've yet 114 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 4: to really dig into. But I think that's why it's there. 115 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 4: It sounds to me I'm unfamiliar with a lot of 116 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 4: the background information you shared. Maybe that was the genesis 117 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 4: of this project many years ago, perhaps, and I think 118 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 4: there's a lot of richness there. There are some fantastic 119 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 4: performances here, performances within performances within performances, as you said, 120 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 4: but just on the surface of a single character performance. 121 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 4: I think Schwartzman and Johansson are excellent in particular. That 122 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 4: may be all this movie needs to be about. That's 123 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 4: the layer I've yet to get to. But how are 124 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 4: you feeling? Is that the layer this movie needed for 125 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 4: you to like it as much as I'm hoping you did. 126 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I probably did appreciate it even more 127 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: because of that ambition, because of that audacity, would have 128 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: been fine, I'm sure with that more stripped down version 129 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: of this film. And I'm gonna say it's probably a 130 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: little silly to suggest that making a movie smaller would 131 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: make the movie seem smaller. Yeah, that's what would have happened, 132 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 3: I think, though, I think it would have been satisfying 133 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,559 Speaker 3: without being as rewarding. And look, every good movie should 134 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 3: get better with repeat viewings. Definitely the case with Anderson's films, 135 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 3: which are very rich. Asteroids City, though, is one that 136 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: almost demands I think that you go back and unpack 137 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: all of its references and all the ways it kind 138 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: of folds in on itself, and not just to get 139 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 3: the references, though I would like to do that. I mean, 140 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 3: we can get as minute even as the fact that 141 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 3: that character I mentioned, Scarlett Johansson, one of her characters 142 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: in this film is named Mercedes Ford. You know, it's 143 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 3: as if is if this woman has probably taken a 144 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: stage name where she's grabbed like this more exotic foreign 145 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: car and they've merged it with the basic American car. 146 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: For it's playing with all these myths and ideas everything, 147 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: even Hickenlooper is a reference. Of course, I don't think 148 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 3: there's anything in this film. Of course there's nothing by accident, 149 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: but it's one of those films where it really does 150 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 3: feel as if every detail matters. And watching it again 151 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: or multiple times after that isn't just to sort of 152 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: pick up on the trivia of it to get all 153 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: those references, but to really see how all of those 154 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 3: references contribute to the narrative and the ideas and yes, 155 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 3: the emotions that Anderson I think is exploring here. And 156 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: there were really two moments then locked it for me, 157 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: and we were talking about this a little bit afterwards. 158 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: I think even the next day you said that there 159 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: were some lines that you really wish maybe you had 160 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: taken better notes on, or that you could reference. I'd 161 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 3: like to see if we have any overlap here. Two 162 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 3: that unlocked it for me. One is a moment I 163 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: think it's Maya Hawk is a teacher who's got a 164 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: group of young students I don't know, maybe eight, nine, 165 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 3: ten years old on a field trip. They've come to 166 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: Astoid City to learn about space, and this is one 167 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: of her scenes where she's trying to teach them the 168 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 3: morning after this alien sighting. Now, I hadn't actually watched 169 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: the trailer for Asteroid City before seeing the movie, so 170 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: I kind of thought. I kind of thought, you know, 171 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 3: even though it's not like it feels like a gigantic spoiler, 172 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 3: I wouldn't have expected that that was something they revealed 173 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: in the trailer. But it's right there. So it's not 174 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 3: like the whole movie hinges. It does kind of thematically, 175 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 3: but it's not as if the movie, in terms of 176 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 3: the plot hinges on this moment, not giving anything away. 177 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: They have an alien sighting. It is completely by surprise. 178 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 3: They have no expectation of this before this moment. They 179 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 3: believe they're alone in the universe, and you can see 180 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 3: how sort of upset she is. Not upset like angry, 181 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 3: more just she's clearly been rocked. Her world has been 182 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: rocked by this, and now she's trying to she's trying 183 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: to teach. 184 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 4: Students, well, it's changed her plan, Adam, you should know 185 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 4: this as a teacher. Now, I mean, there's nothing worse. 186 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 3: And it's changed so much more than that, it's changed 187 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: the plan for all of their lives in a way. Right, 188 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 3: So she says, some of our information about the Solar 189 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: System may no longer be completely accurate. Anyway, there's still 190 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 3: only nine planets in the Solar System as far as 191 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 3: we know. And one of the kids, Billy, raises his 192 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 3: hand and Billy says, except now there's an alien. And 193 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 3: you really do you sense? I love the performance. You 194 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 3: sense her hesitancy and the doubt that's creeping in as 195 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: she's saying those words, Like the way she says, as 196 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: far as we know, as far as we know, there's 197 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 3: still nine planets in the Solar System. And it just 198 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 3: raises for me this idea that I think this movie 199 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 3: is really exploring, among so many other ideas and questions, 200 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 3: which is what do we cling to as truths, universal 201 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: foundational truths. How do we navigate this experience, this experience 202 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 3: of life with out a set of rules? Twelve hours ago, 203 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 3: they thought they understood the rules, They thought they understood 204 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 3: what kind of universe they lived in. Now they realize 205 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 3: they don't. Everything is up for grabs, and that chaos, 206 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 3: that uncertainty is disconcerting. And I think that even ties 207 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 3: back Josh to the central storyline of this film, which 208 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 3: is surrounding grief. These Steamback kids. There's a life with 209 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 3: a mother, and there's a life now without. They're just 210 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 3: now coming to terms with it. They just discover it. 211 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 3: It just gets thrown thrust onto them, and they have 212 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 3: to reckon with it. So there's life before and after, 213 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: just like there's before and after life with the alien? 214 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 3: What do you what are you going to be tethered to? 215 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: Which then gets to the second moment and I can't 216 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 3: remember the line. Maybe you do, but I know a 217 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: character says it. I don't remember the exact context, Steve, 218 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 3: and I wish I had better notes here. Someone says 219 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 3: something to the effect that you just have to keep 220 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: telling the story. And for all of these artists, including 221 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: Anderson himself. The sense for me is that the only 222 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: way you can deal with all that chaos and uncertainty 223 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 3: is to just keep telling the story. Are you ever 224 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: going to find the meaning of it all? Are you 225 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 3: going to find the answers? 226 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 5: No? 227 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 3: You just keep telling the story. And that story involves characters. 228 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: The stories involve people. All you can do is keep 229 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 3: taking some comfort and solace in each other. 230 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of the lines. It absolutely is. And 231 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 4: it's so funny because it comes at a point where 232 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 4: you are starting to feel overwhelmed a little bit about 233 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 4: what this all might mean. Not overwhelmed by the style, 234 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 4: you know, I couldn't get enough of that, the filmmaking 235 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 4: those sorts of things, or the performances, but starting to think, Okay, 236 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 4: this has been fun, but what are we doing here? 237 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 4: And what happens? This is in the TV documentary you mentioned, 238 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 4: which is chronicling the production of the play that is 239 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 4: the story proper and Schwartzman, who is the actor at 240 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 4: this point, not the father in Asteroid City, but the 241 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 4: actor playing him, asks Adrian Brody, as the play's director, 242 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 4: doesn't even ask him, he just kind of says, an exasperation, 243 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 4: I still don't understand the play, and it just hit 244 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 4: me because I was right there with him. It was 245 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 4: like exactly where I was. And then Brody's director is 246 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 4: the one who says, you had it, just keep telling 247 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 4: the story. That was his direction. I love your reading. 248 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 4: I love this idea of you know, being disconcerted by 249 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 4: events and wondering what truths can we cling to. I 250 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 4: think that absolutely fits. I had a little different response 251 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 4: to the alien encounter, I think, and then a reading 252 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 4: that worked backwards for the film. I almost found that 253 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 4: for the characters to be it's the end epiphany, right, 254 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 4: And we've gotten these in almost every one of his 255 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 4: movies where a character suddenly it's Max Fisher flying the kite, 256 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 4: it's Steve Zizou underwater encountering the jaguar shark. I think 257 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 4: I'm gonna lose my cred if I got that wrong. 258 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 4: You know, these epiphanies, they often come in the you know, 259 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 4: the final twenty minutes of his films. What's so interesting here? 260 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 4: And why you're right that it's not necessarily a spoiler 261 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 4: though I did not know it going in. As well, 262 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 4: the alien appearance, it's about the midway point. It feels 263 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 4: like and so it is an epiphany that turns a 264 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 4: little differently than previous ones for me. And I'm going 265 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 4: to back all the way up and then say that 266 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 4: I found asteroid City. My takeaway was this is maybe 267 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 4: his darkest film, maybe his bleakest film, And I think 268 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 4: it's capturing a feeling right now that for me at least, 269 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 4: is very appropriate this movie, Adam. I think maybe because 270 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 4: of the atomic setting, it had me thinking about the 271 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 4: doomsday clock. And this is not something I really think 272 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 4: about very much, but I actually thought, I'm gonna go 273 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 4: see what's the doomsday clock saying right now? And this 274 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 4: is that, you know, it's kind of a pseudoscientific thing 275 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 4: that's supposed to measure how close we are to destroy ourselves. 276 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 4: Right It's at its worst right now. And I thought 277 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 4: that fits. That makes sense to me, just how kind 278 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 4: of I've been feeling when you talk to like younger people, 279 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 4: how they talk about their future. It's like, yeah, this 280 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 4: tracks that the doomsday clock is saying things are pretty dire. 281 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 4: And then I'm thinking about this movie, which is set 282 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 4: decades later but sort of a similar time. Right, we've 283 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 4: had a pandemic, We've had American insurrection. Those are unique, 284 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 4: but Russian aggression environmental degradation that we have now. But 285 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 4: you think also about the atomic testing element and what 286 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 4: that meant when it was first dawning upon humanity's consciousness 287 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 4: in the fifties. The extreme existential angst of nineteen fifty five, 288 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 4: I have to imagine, was similar to what we are 289 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 4: experiencing now, as the doomsday clock attests. And so I 290 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: think this movie is wrestling with all of that and 291 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 4: making it personal to your point, not only in the 292 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 4: Schwartzman character's family wrestling with the mother and wife's death, 293 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 4: but Midge's character is performing. She's rehearsing this suicidal scene 294 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 4: in her next movie, and she is giving it such 295 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 4: pathos that you really worry for her as a character, 296 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 4: not as an actress playing that part, but as a character. 297 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 4: This is also a common theme in Anderson's films, considering suicide, 298 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 4: and it's darker for me because it just feels both 299 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 4: personal and bigger. It really does feel as if the 300 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 4: world is on the verge of crumbling. There's another line 301 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 4: that I wrote down, We're doomed or something like that, 302 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 4: and someone says in a response, maybe we are wondering 303 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 4: it feels like we're doomed? Is something like that, Maybe 304 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 4: we are? And I think there's stylistic touches that support 305 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 4: this reading. Think about that highway ramp in the middle 306 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 4: of town that goes to nowhere. It's just like, very 307 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 4: funny but also kind of an unsettling joke. The atomic 308 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 4: testing constantly going on in the background. How about the 309 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 4: police chase that interrupts every favorite guest. It's so funny 310 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 4: in the film, right, It's like police car chasing a 311 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: hot rod down main street, screaming. They're shooting at each other. 312 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 4: It's funny, it's another one of the Roadrunner cartoon elements, 313 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 4: but it's also deeply distressing in a way, like your 314 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 4: life is going to be interrupted by this any moment. 315 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 4: There's nothing you can do. You're in the gunfire. Why 316 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 4: do so many characters carry guns with no explanation in 317 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 4: this movie? Adam Tom Hanks's father in law, he doesn't 318 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 4: need a gun, Steve Carrell's hotel keeper, he doesn't need 319 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 4: a gun. And they're just kind of in their holes 320 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 4: in their belts. This is a movie that's deeply disquieting 321 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 4: to me, constantly reminding of me of that, and then 322 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 4: the Alien comes, and for me, it was almost as 323 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 4: if it opened things up for these characters. You know 324 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 4: what I thought about. We've talked many times about how 325 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 4: Tarkowsky's Mirror has affected our viewing of every movie since 326 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 4: The Alien for me was a little bit like the 327 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 4: wind in Mirror, where inexplainable, disturbing in a way, unsettling, 328 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 4: yet somehow also maybe a little bit comforting that, Okay, 329 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 4: things feel out of our control, but maybe that's because 330 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 4: we're not in control and there's something else out there 331 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 4: we don't understand, and there's something comforting about that. And 332 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 4: the reason I turned to that is because there are 333 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 4: very subtle changes for some of these characters after that 334 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 4: point that I won't get into now because I've talked 335 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 4: long enough, but did find the movie for me moving 336 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 4: a little bit away from that despair and unease that 337 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 4: it otherwise was really steeped in for me, almost more 338 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 4: than any of his other films. 339 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we saw the film the same way. 340 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: We're thinking about it, very much the same way. Some 341 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 3: of our word choices might be slightly different. You mentioned 342 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: bleak and that it might be his bleakest or his darkest. Yes, 343 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 3: those elements are there. That's what's grounding everything and what 344 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 3: the rest of the film is riffing on and responding to. 345 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: But as I said, really following up that mantra of 346 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 3: just keep telling the story, it feels to me his 347 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: most hopeful in some ways. And just to mention about 348 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 3: Hank's real quick I like that character touch because it 349 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 3: seemed to me one where because of the way he 350 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: carried himself, and he has a very kind of stern demeanor, 351 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 3: and that gun obviously was an indicator as well. It 352 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 3: made me think this guy has to be a military guy. 353 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 3: He's someone who probably comes from that world, the military world. 354 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 3: Now he's trying to domesticate back into regular life, and 355 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 3: that's one of those barriers that he can't quite break. 356 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 3: That's just now who he is. And I think this 357 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: movie is filled with those kinds of dichotomies, including the 358 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 3: types of dichotomies that surround what you're expressing or this 359 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 3: conflict of the film, the hopefulness versus the bleakness, the 360 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 3: sort of fatalism of it, it's all there. I think 361 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 3: that is what he's really exploring, and it does feel 362 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 3: to me that that time You're right that time in 363 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 3: the fifties that he's tapping into it must have felt 364 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 3: like that every day for people, for a lot of Americans, 365 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: but especially people maybe living in some of these these 366 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 3: towns around places like the you know, real asteroid cities 367 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: where bombs are being tested. But even then on the 368 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 3: East Coast, that's another dichotomy at play here, the East 369 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 3: Coast and the actors and it's all very cerebral and 370 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 3: they're trying to get inside these characters and understand them. 371 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 3: But then we've got the West, and everything about the 372 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 3: mythicness of that is in opposition to what we think 373 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: of as the East. This movie is those things, and 374 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: then we get the dichotomies in terms of the color 375 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: and black and white, yep, the aspect ratios that switch 376 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 3: here in this film. And I'll come back to that 377 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 3: a little bit more, but that, for me is really 378 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 3: why you can't separate or I don't think you get 379 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 3: a quote unquote better film if you separated out all 380 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 3: the asteroid city story stuff, because it's so tied to 381 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 3: all the other stories that we get and all the 382 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 3: other storytellers we see. Without the dichotomies of the movie 383 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 3: simply isn't as rich. So that actor's studio stuff. For example, 384 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: I really feel like, Josh, if you if you know 385 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 3: anything about that group at all and what some of 386 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 3: those actors, and that includes people like Marilyn Monroe even right, 387 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: it's part of the actor's studio, lots of other famous 388 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 3: people whose films that Anderson grew up on and that 389 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 3: you know, we're all familiar with. There was a sense 390 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: by doing this work, the work of being an actor, 391 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 3: and this is just my sense of it too from 392 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: what I've gleaned from movies and reading, is that they 393 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 3: were they were unlocking the mysteries of the universe too. 394 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 3: They were, or at least the mysteries of humanity, trying 395 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 3: to deeply understand what makes us all tick and then 396 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 3: translate that to the screen, to put that in a 397 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 3: box and make people see themselves reflected in that and 398 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 3: better understand where they stand in the universe by living 399 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 3: through it through these characters. Now we can sit here 400 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 3: and say, well, that's maybe way too grandiose a notion, 401 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 3: but that's what those students were in those classrooms hoping 402 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: to learn. They were trying to unlock those things. And 403 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 3: I imagine that someone from the outside, someone in Middle 404 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 3: America hearing about the actors and the actor's studio and 405 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 3: picking up these little things. They even had a sense 406 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 3: that I don't understand what's going on in those classrooms. Sure, 407 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: I don't know what they think they're doing, but that's 408 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 3: not that different than the astronomers trying to make sense 409 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 3: of the universe. Like there was this time where all 410 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 3: of these things were converging. You're starting to be able 411 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 3: to access the universe through technology and actually going out 412 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 3: into space. That's making you think about your world differently. 413 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 3: And now people are taking things like acting and they're 414 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 3: exploring the mind in a way that is ostensibly deeper 415 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 3: than what had ever been done before. Again, it comes 416 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: back to this idea of mysteries too. And so when 417 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 3: you look at Asteroid City, when you think about all that, 418 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 3: and then you look at Asteroid City the movie, but 419 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 3: also the place, just the place itself within the movie, 420 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 3: it it for me takes on another layer of poignancy. 421 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 3: And I'm going to use a word here in a 422 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 3: moment that you already said, and you don't just appreciate 423 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 3: the visual aesthetics of it, which I'm with you, I 424 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 3: could have just watched I could have just watched people 425 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: move about. 426 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 4: Sound for the production design as well. Is it's just incredible. 427 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: Yes, But these locations, when you think about Anderson and 428 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 3: his work, You've already referenced some of these films, those 429 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 3: spaces always have so much meaning to Anderson's characters, right Rushmore, 430 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 3: the school, the Tenenbaum House, the boat in the Life Aquatic, 431 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 3: the Grand Budapest Hotel. But these places exist within the world. 432 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 3: They can't actually be completely sealed off from the world, 433 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 3: as much as the characters maybe want them to be. 434 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 3: The outside world always encroaches. And the difference here, I think, 435 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 3: or one difference I thought of, is that Asteroid City 436 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 3: is what it is only because of the outside world encroaching. 437 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 3: Like it's not actually really a town undo itself. Almost 438 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 3: nobody actually lives there. The only people we meet, for 439 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 3: the most part, we meet all the people who who 440 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 3: come there for some other reason. And every edifice we 441 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 3: see in Asteroid City is artifice. The whole thing is 442 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 3: and I know this again will sound a little silly, 443 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 3: but this is where the movie folds in on itself. 444 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 3: The whole thing is like a movie set. Yeah, not 445 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 3: one piece of construction or writing on the walls or 446 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: on a sign or a set of stairs or whatever. 447 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 3: Not one of those things wasn't something that was created 448 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 3: by a maker, created by Wes Anderson. 449 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 4: Even the Mesa's in the background, which are delightfully pink 450 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 4: like those are clearly clearly fake. 451 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 3: Exactly so when I talk about poignancy, and I talk 452 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 3: about what I imagine to be personal, even though I'm 453 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 3: not suggesting I know anything about Wes Anderson's own life 454 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,959 Speaker 3: or things he might be dealing with right now in 455 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,239 Speaker 3: his life, but I got the sense watching it that 456 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 3: one of the things he wanted to explore on screen 457 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 3: and deal with is the idea that the more uncertain 458 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 3: we are, the more life seems to unravel or be 459 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: unraveling around us or control, we naturally try to exert 460 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 3: over it and reassert ourselves. And so this movie is 461 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 3: it's not just about that push pull like it embodies it. 462 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 3: It embodies it literally in every frame where we have 463 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 3: a filmmaker. They always say that about Anderson. His detractors 464 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: say it to a fault, that it's all too controlled, 465 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 3: it's all too intricately manicured. Whatever. This is one of 466 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 3: those films where it both seems to me he's taken 467 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 3: it to yet another level of being that orchestrated and designed, 468 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 3: because as I said, there literally isn't a thing you 469 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 3: see that not only do you know Wes Anderson, imagine, 470 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 3: I almost figure he's the one who wrote those things. 471 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 3: He probably got out the paintbrush and actually wrote the 472 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: things like oil change and you know, pancakes whatever for 473 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 3: for a dollar, whatever it is. That's the sense you 474 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 3: get watching it. It's as if he himself, like the 475 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 3: characters are trying to exert that that control have have 476 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 3: complete dominance and dominion over this space. 477 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 4: And then the alien comes in and takes all that 478 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 4: control away, which is and I'm pretty sure I won't 479 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 4: describe it in detail because I want people to experience 480 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 4: it and be surprised. I think stop motion animation is involved. 481 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 4: Let's just say I'd like was one hundred and twenty 482 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 4: percent in when I saw how they handled the alien. 483 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 4: It's just wonderful. I love what you said about the 484 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 4: actors studio and the seriousness of the project at work 485 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 4: there in terms of trying to wrestle with this anxiety 486 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 4: and angst and unease and using it not just to 487 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 4: put on a performance, but to understand more about the 488 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 4: human psyche. I think that's absolutely right. It helps me 489 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 4: to connect it with the you know, the story proper 490 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 4: that we see, and it's also gives us a chance 491 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 4: to talk more about these performances, which everyone here is wonderful. 492 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 4: I think every small bit part is absolutely precisely doing 493 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 4: what it needs to be using that particular actor's persona 494 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 4: and talents. But I really think Schwartzman and Johansson are 495 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 4: holding this thing together on an emotional level. Hers is 496 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 4: almost a supporting turn. I don't even know if you 497 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 4: would consider his a lead turn, but she definitely gets 498 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 4: less screen time, but I think she's kind of the 499 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 4: central focus. And the way she that vacant stare she holds, 500 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 4: which suggests someone very lost. And this is whether she's 501 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 4: looking at a character or looking directly at the camera, 502 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 4: someone who's incredibly lost in the ways we've described, possibly despair, 503 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 4: but also it just pierces right through you. 504 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: He took a picture of me, whow, I'm a photographer. 505 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 2: You didn't ask permission. I never ask permission? 506 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 5: Why not? 507 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: Because I work in trench's battlefields and combat zones, really. 508 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 509 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: I mean you're a war photographer. 510 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: Mostly sometimes I cover sporting events. My name is Augue Steinbeck. 511 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. 512 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 4: What are you going to do with that? 513 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 5: That picture? Hm? 514 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 2: Well, if it's any good, I guess I'll try to 515 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: sell it to a magazine now that you mentioned it. 516 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: Midge Campbell eating. 517 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 4: A waffle Schwartzman, you know she's minimalist, and so is 518 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 4: he as Augie I should say, not is the actor 519 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 4: Plane Augie, but as Augie almost like speaking without separating 520 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 4: his teeth in many ways. And there's a great joke 521 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 4: about that, which I won't spoil. I think it's in 522 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 4: the trailer too, though, unfortunately. And he I don't think 523 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 4: he's one of the best lines. It's so good, and 524 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 4: I don't think i've seen him. I haven't seen everything 525 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 4: he's done, but something as clenched as this is, and 526 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 4: I love that different side of him. And he's also 527 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 4: good as the insecure actor Plane Augie as well, as 528 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 4: we've already touched on, gets another one in great lines 529 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 4: in that part. So they're both they're both just, you know, 530 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 4: top of their games here. 531 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think they are both very good 532 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 3: and I have always appreciated Schwartzman, especially in in Anderson's films. 533 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 3: I will only say that you're right. They're giving performances 534 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 3: that are in a very similar register and show similar restraint, 535 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 3: and are similarly kind of vacant at times or a 536 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: little bit detached. And I would I would say that 537 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: Schwartzman's performance is incredible if it wasn't for the fact 538 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 3: that he was playing off Johansson. And I think that 539 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 3: Johansson just exhibits something with that character. For all the 540 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 3: ways they're very similar, there is something, to use your word, 541 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 3: more more piercing, a little bit more haunting for sure, 542 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 3: a bit more mysterious. There's there is a a well 543 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 3: of mystery to her character that Schwartzman's character doesn't quite 544 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 3: put off. And I don't know if that's because of 545 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 3: the way they're written. I don't know if it's because 546 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 3: of the direction and what Anderson wanted, or it's something 547 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 3: that's lacking in Schwartzman's performance, or it's just something that's 548 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 3: so there in Johanson's performance, because I think she's incredible. 549 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, if I had 550 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 4: to rank them, she's she's giving a richer performance, even 551 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 4: though it's a character with a little less screen time. 552 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do want to mention, as we're talking about 553 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 3: the layers and storytelling and following that idea of telling 554 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 3: the story, things like all of these devices, sometimes literal 555 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 3: or physical devices, like the camera. I mean, Aggie's a 556 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 3: war photographer, so you see him always bringing the camera 557 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: up to his eye. It's almost like it's his protection. 558 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: You know that he has his art, he has this 559 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 3: this camera that allows him to get a little bit 560 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 3: of space and see the world the way that he 561 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 3: wants to see it. But we also get these frames 562 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 3: in a lot of different ways. It's not just the 563 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: frame of the camera, and that frame is sometimes the 564 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,239 Speaker 3: personium of a stage or a television, or it's the 565 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 3: movie the widescreen that we're seeing all of those things there. 566 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 3: But Josh even the way he shoots Scarlett Johanson and 567 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: Jason Schwartzman as they spend a good chunk of the 568 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 3: movie talking to each other from their little bungalows, Yeah, 569 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 3: a window, and they have some space in between them, 570 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 3: and when you look directly at them, when the camera 571 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 3: shows them head on, it's like they're within another frame 572 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 3: of course they are a window, and that window is 573 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 3: almost like the aspect ratio. It's the squarer right, classic 574 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 3: style aspect ratio which we sometimes get in other universes 575 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 3: within this movie. But then when Anderson shoots the desert 576 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: space between them so that you see them on each 577 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 3: side of the frame, it creates a new wide screen 578 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 3: frame like their faces and their windows create yet another 579 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 3: screen within the screen. I started to almost feel like, 580 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: am I going crazy? I'm seeing I'm seeing rectangles and 581 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 3: squares everywhere I look. But that's that's to me to 582 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 3: the film's credit. Yes, that that I started to experience 583 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 3: all that. 584 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's it's emphasizing their separation, them feeling 585 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 4: boxed in by their own individual identity or individual angst 586 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 4: and anxieties that are there are shared anxieties in this movie, 587 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 4: and there are very individual anxieties, and it makes space 588 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 4: for both. It frames both appropriately, as when we see, 589 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 4: you know, the chain link fence around the government facility 590 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 4: that that kind of is oddly designed, so it's just 591 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 4: going straight deep into the screen then back all the 592 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 4: way showing how wide it is. And there's also I 593 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 4: think and Anderson formal first I would have to go 594 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,959 Speaker 4: again frame by frame through all his films to make 595 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 4: sure I think we get at a swishpan within a 596 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 4: split frame. So it's when two characters are ones on 597 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 4: each side right of the screen, separated, they're not just 598 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 4: standing next to each other. And then that police chase 599 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 4: goes by, and I forget which character, and one of 600 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 4: them turns to look at the police car, and the 601 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 4: camera pans quickly with them. I mean, he's gonna drive 602 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 4: himself insane at some point if he keeps layering things 603 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 4: like this. I just hope, I just hope I can 604 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 4: keep up with them. 605 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 3: Well, you know what put me in the headspace, and 606 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 3: we'll go out on this. I'm gonna invoke your beloved 607 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 3: life aquatic. The opening of this film is a shot. 608 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 3: I may not be getting it exactly right, but as 609 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 3: I recall it, it's a shot of it's Brian Cranston 610 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 3: talking as the host of the TV show, and the 611 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 3: first image we see is him but through the glass 612 00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 3: of the TV booth. 613 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 4: Hmm. 614 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 3: So there's there's people working on the TV show who 615 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 3: are in the very foreground the glass that they're looking through, 616 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 3: and then Cranston on the stage. So again we've got 617 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 3: we've got all these layers here, we've got the stage 618 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 3: itself that he's on, we've got the studio glass. But 619 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 3: it made me think immediately of the submarine shot from 620 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 3: Steve Zizou that that even that shot, Josh, when you 621 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 3: think about it, the way he frames that, that moment 622 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 3: with the jaguar shark, that group of people sitting in 623 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 3: those seats in the submarine looking out through that wide screen, 624 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 3: it's like they're at a movie theater. It's like they're 625 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 3: it's like they're watching this this all unfold in front 626 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 3: of them. And it works for me on the level 627 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 3: that it's almost as if Anderson can only see the 628 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 3: world through through frames, through these types of boxes, and 629 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 3: so so he layers his film with his characters doing 630 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 3: the same. 631 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 4: One of the best shots in his filmography that one 632 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,919 Speaker 4: from Zazoo, for sure. 633 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: That's im class. 634 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 3: Access to the full Film Spotting archive going back to 635 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 3: two thousand and five, it's like over twelve hundred episodes 636 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 3: with all the bonus shows is one of the benefits 637 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 3: of joining the Film Spotting family. 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