1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Make every dollar work harder with the US banks Smartly Suite. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: It bundles your checking, savings, and credit cards seamlessly in 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: one place, making money management easier and more organized. You'll 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: also unlock exclusive perks like tailored rates and rewards that 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: help you get more out of every dollar. The US 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: Bank Smartly Suite is a smart, practical way to grow 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: your money and have confidence your money is working harder 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: for you. When our Bank Smartly solutions meet your financial goals, 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: we are stronger together. That's the power of US Member FDIC. 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 13 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 15 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 16 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Treadplus at 17 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: one Peloton dot com. 18 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: Hey, film Spiders, Josh and Adam. Here. On Wednesdays, we 19 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 3: like to drop something into the feed that comes from 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 3: the film spotting archive. This week we're going to share 21 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: a couple of Yorgosplanthemo's Ammastone collaborations twenty sixteen's The Favorite 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: twenty twenty threes Poor Things. Both of those, Adam, I 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 3: think made for some pretty good conversation. 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, we split a little bit, at least on poor things, 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 4: both fans of the Favorite. First up is that conversation 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 4: from December twenty eighteen about The Favorite. 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: The queen is an extraordinary person. 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: They were all. 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 5: Staring, won't they? I can tell even if I can't see. 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 5: And I heard the word fat, fat, and ugly. No 31 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 5: one but me would Darren I did not. 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 2: She's been stalked by tragedy. 33 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 5: Everyone leaves me, he does. I apologize for my appearance. 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 5: I hope I might be employed here by you. That's 35 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 5: something a monster the children to play with. 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: Perhaps ah. 37 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 4: Olivia Coleman as the beleaguered Queen, Rachel Weiss as her 38 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 4: ruthless but most trusted friend and advisor, Lady Sarah, and 39 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 4: Emma Stone as the interloping viper, Abigail There and Jess. 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 4: When I thought last week's conversation about the ballad of 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 4: Buster scrugs had exhausted the need to come up with 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 4: more synonyms for cynicism, we have the favorite, a film 43 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 4: with a decidedly lower body count than Scrugs with regard 44 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 4: to on screen casualties anyway, but arguably even a more 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 4: ascetic view of human nature. Nobody in Queen Anne's early 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 4: eighteenth century court gets shot in the back by arrival, 47 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: as we see in the Cones Old West, though a 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 4: rifle may not so accidentally get fired in one's general 49 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 4: direction to deliver appointed message during an otherwise elegant afternoon 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 4: of pigeon shooting, And even the lowliest kitchen helper with 51 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 4: no power or political agenda to angle for, is more 52 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 4: likely to connive to inflict pain or embarrassment than spare 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 4: a moment of compassion for a new servant. So, Josh, 54 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 4: who did you find the most redeemable in this basket 55 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 4: of deplorables? Or perhaps who did you find the most 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 4: entertainingly irredeemable? Coleman's exhaustingly needy, childlike monarch Vice's icy, brutally 57 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 4: honest Sarah Stone's seemingly wide eyed schemer, or Rakish puppet 58 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 4: master Yorgos Lanthemos so determined to devise and explore hermetically 59 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 4: sealed worlds that present their own unique language protocols and 60 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 4: acrid blend of decorum and debauchery. 61 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is quite the cheery vision of humanity, isn't it? 62 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: As we would expect from Alanthemo. So I think we 63 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: both knew what we are getting into at this point 64 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: from that director, and for the most part, we both 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: really enjoy getting into these sorts of dramas that he 66 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: gives us. Great question, I would argue they're all redeemable. Nice, 67 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: but I would I would also say such a compassion Yeah, 68 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: I guess I would say that some of them have 69 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 3: more redeeming quality than others. Let's start at the bottom, 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: which it sounds like we both agree, is Emma Stone's 71 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 3: Abigail Oh okay, I mean she is just out for 72 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 3: the kill from the beginning, and understandably so for many reasons. 73 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: The more we hear about her past and as you said, 74 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: her station in her class. But man, she's look out 75 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: look out for her right. And it is, to answer 76 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: your other question, a perverse delight to watch Stone get 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 3: to showcase new levels of deceitfulness, especially when her early reputation, 78 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 3: for sure is as a sweet natured someone who plays 79 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: sweet natured parts right. Rachel Weiss Lady Sarah. I think 80 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: there might be a little bit of genuine love there 81 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: for the Queen, and it's gotten just tangled up in 82 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 3: plays for political power and all sorts of other things 83 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: that we see happen in this film, So that seems 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 3: to have faded and faded until it's almost entirely gone. 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: But there is you still see glimmers of it that 86 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 3: makes her, you know, has some redeemable qualities. I think 87 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: Queen Anne, and this is maybe tied to how I 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: enjoy the performances. Enjoyed them all thought they were all great. 89 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: But Olivia Coleman as Queen Anne is just fantastic in 90 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 3: the way that she's at once the most she is 91 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: the most easily manipulated in some ways, but she's also 92 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: the master manipulator. And a lot of that has to 93 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 3: do with the fact that she's at the top of 94 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: the chain, right she's the queen, but she plays that 95 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 3: card throughout and Coleman just gives her. There's a lot 96 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 3: of king Lear going on in this movie, and I 97 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 3: think Coleman captures what that play has is the idea 98 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 3: of a monarch as a having this weary ferocity of 99 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: a dying animal. There's a desperation to her, so that 100 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: she's at once the movie's most monstrous presence when she 101 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: really wields that power, but she's also I found her 102 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: to be the most sympathetic and maybe having the most 103 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: redeemable qualities because of that. So that's sort of where 104 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 3: I landed after a first viewing of this In one 105 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 3: way perfect Lanthimos film in the themes that it's exploring 106 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: and intriguingly different in that costume drama setting. 107 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this movie could have been still a 108 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 4: very good film had it been just about taking that 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 4: pleasure in watching this much bad behavior portrayed as artfully 110 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 4: as it is and with such a plom But I 111 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 4: think what elevates it for me a little bit, and 112 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: what gets back to the question I posed to you, 113 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 4: is that as much as I loathed each one of 114 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 4: these characters for a variety of different reasons, I also 115 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 4: lamented the misfortunes of all three. Lamented what put them 116 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 4: all in the situation, some more than others, but put 117 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 4: them in the situation that requires them to be as 118 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 4: needy or as manipulative and scheming and exploitative as they 119 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 4: ultimately are. I think you're probably right about it. I'm 120 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 4: a stone, especially by the end of the film. Her character, Abigail, 121 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 4: it's fair to say, is the least redeemable in a 122 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 4: lot of ways. But there's a key line for me 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 4: in the movie that comes about three quarters the way through, 124 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 4: during her battle with Lady Sarah, and without revealing any 125 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 4: of the circumstances, I can say the line she says, 126 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 4: I'm safe now, And in that moment, if you just 127 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 4: take it on face value, it sounds as if she's saying, 128 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 4: you can't touch me anymore, and she is saying that. 129 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 4: But what she's really saying, if you've seen it, you 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 4: know the circumstances in particular, you understand that she truly 131 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 4: is now finally in a position where she is not 132 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 4: as vulnerable as she has been up to this point 133 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 4: in her entire life. 134 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: She can't be as easily victimized as. 135 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 4: She has, and so the tenuousness of her survival is 136 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 4: something that did give me an appreciation for her shrewdness. 137 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 4: You understand that it really is not just about ambition 138 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 4: or greed or whatever might drive people to act in 139 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 4: this way. It's about that survival. All three characters in 140 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 4: a lot of ways, I would say, are people who 141 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 4: are incapable of gratification. There are moments where they maybe 142 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 4: get some solace, especially sexually. I think those moments are 143 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 4: really the only ones that provide any kind of pleasure whatsoever. 144 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 4: But think about Coleman, who I agree with you is 145 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 4: really stunning here, and she's the one who, despite how 146 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 4: needy she is and how demanding she is and how 147 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 4: incompetent she is as a leader, you recognize that she 148 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 4: carries so much pathos and that she is a victim herself. 149 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 4: We understand more of that as we go throughout the film, 150 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 4: including how much pain physically she is in and has 151 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: suffered in her life, so that skews our perspective as well. 152 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 4: But back to this idea of gratification, think about how 153 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 4: many times in the film we see her lose her 154 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 4: mind when she is confronted with joy of any kind whatsoever. 155 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 4: The moment when she's walking by with one of the characters, 156 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 4: I'm blanking on it, the moment and she looks out, 157 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 4: I think it's Abigail, and she looks out and they 158 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: admire some kids performing with a conductor. It's like a 159 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 4: group of five and it's really lovely music. And the 160 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 4: look on her face as it turns from one of 161 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 4: recognition of that sound and the pleasure of it into horror, 162 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 4: there's something about it that she immediately recoils from. There's 163 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 4: also a dance scene in the film that we may 164 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 4: talk more about, a bit of an anachronistic dance scene 165 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 4: that's really pretty great in this film that she also 166 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 4: flips out about and gets immediately angry about. So you're 167 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 4: dealing with characters who all in their own way, I suppose, 168 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 4: detached and very difficult, but as we do gain that 169 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 4: recognition of their circumstances, even Lady Sarah, I would say, 170 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 4: by the end of the film, we do recognize that 171 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 4: that honesty that she has, that brutal honesty, may actually 172 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 4: come from a place of love. Yes, she'll do whatever 173 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 4: she can to protect herself and protect her standing, but 174 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 4: she may be the one who is ultimately serving the 175 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 4: Queen the most. So the fact that we at least 176 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 4: get to think about those questions and consider those characters 177 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 4: that way is a real strength of this film. 178 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: You're right that the Queen is a very tortured figure 179 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 3: in ways that we come to understand, but maybe not 180 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 3: entirely fully. Abigail, we understand is a tortured figure as well, 181 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: and we get an explicit picture of that. I guess 182 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 3: I fel the way I did towards your question because 183 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 3: I asked myself once. Each of these three characters do 184 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: get to a position of power, and that's one of 185 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 3: the intriguing things about this film is watching that change, right, 186 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 3: go back and forth. What do they do with that 187 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 3: power and who's the most vindictive and awful when they 188 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: hold it? And there is a very queasy scene that 189 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 3: I won't give away involving Abigail towards the end of 190 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 3: the film that kind of like reveal her true colors. 191 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: To me, if she were in the Queen's place, it 192 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: would probably look very differently than Anne being in that place. 193 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 4: And we will say for people who have seen it 194 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 4: or people who haven't seen it but eventually do. It 195 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 4: is a scene, I know, the one you're talking about 196 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 4: that involves an animal, of course, right, And I will 197 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 4: note as well that actually that moment, the moment you're 198 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 4: talking about, which we will dance around a little bit, 199 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 4: but it's based on a shriek or it comes out 200 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 4: of a recognition of a cry that happens in that 201 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 4: scene that's actually set up by a moment earlier in 202 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 4: the film that also adds to Olivia Coleman's sense of 203 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 4: pathos and the vulnerability of her character. There's a moment 204 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 4: where Abigail exploits the fact that she is in proximity 205 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 4: to the Queen and she is about to be exiled 206 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 4: or something bad is going to happen to her, and 207 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 4: so she actually breaks down and cries like a little 208 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 4: child in that moment, and the Queen can't resist in 209 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 4: that moment, at least exploring what that cry is and 210 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 4: what the problem is. There is that sympathetic side of her, 211 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 4: and again it does set up that moment at the 212 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 4: end of the film why she would react to it 213 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 4: that way. 214 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 3: So you mentioned the animal element. You've referenced the dance. 215 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 3: These are two things that Lanthemo's films, most of them 216 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 3: that we see, do incorporate in a really idiosyncratic way. 217 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: I'm guessing that all of these flourishes worked for you 218 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 3: because in a lot of ways, this is a very 219 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 3: standard costume drama. I mean, the costumes themselves are opulent 220 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 3: and gorgeous and the rooms where this is filmed on 221 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 3: an estate in England, the tapestry lined walls. These are 222 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: giant spaces, absolutely gorgeous. So this looks and plays the 223 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 3: part in a lot of ways. But as Stanley Kubrick 224 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 3: did with Barry Lindon, and Kubrick as a filmmaker often 225 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: referenced alongside Lanthemos because I think they both have this 226 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: bleak vision of humanity and like to explore, just to 227 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 3: expose the folly of humankind. I think they both like 228 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: to do that, and Kubrick did with a period piece. 229 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 3: This really has a lot of those touches that set 230 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: it apart. Another one might be the fish eye lens. 231 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 3: Yet he occasionally goes to I don't know offhand if 232 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: that's something that has been a recurring technique in his 233 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 3: other films, but it's certainly used here, so I'm curious 234 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 3: to hear how that landed for you. The camera also 235 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 3: will often, you know, make a sweeping pan that takes 236 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 3: in the enormity of these rooms. So we're not getting 237 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: a masterpiece theater. Set the camera in a gorgeous space 238 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: and let the actors act, right, We're getting a lot 239 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: of landing boss here. Yes, we worked for you. 240 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, it absolutely worked for me. I think it's another 241 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 4: real strength of the film, that fish eye effect. I 242 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 4: didn't get a chance to really go back and study 243 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 4: the film and see if this bears out moment to moment, 244 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 4: but often I noticed it was employed when we were 245 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 4: seeing characters in times of distress, which made sense. Now, 246 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 4: sometimes it's characters going down a hallway, but also there's 247 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 4: a moment of tension in that scene, whatever they are 248 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 4: going to or they are leaving from. But particularly in 249 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 4: a scene like where the Queen goes to speak before 250 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 4: Parliament and let's just say it doesn't go very well. 251 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 4: It's sort of foreshadowed really the couple moments just before 252 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 4: it by that very distorted kind of fish eye lens, 253 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 4: which I think does just kind of cue us into 254 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 4: the fact that something is a little bit off. Those 255 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 4: wide lenses and the wide frames that you mention, for me, 256 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 4: really emphasize the order of everything, the structure of everything 257 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 4: that seems to be in exactly its place. But then 258 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 4: that's perfectly juxtaposed with the chaos inside and also outside, 259 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 4: which is only really ever hinted at in this film. 260 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 4: We never really do kind of get out of this court, 261 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 4: which is for me. As I suggested in the setup 262 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 4: another way, this is a Lanthamost film through and through 263 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 4: the cynicism, the dark humor, the dance scenes, the animals, 264 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 4: if you will, but also the fact that this place 265 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 4: has its own way of communication, its own rules, and 266 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: you have all these characters trying to navigate that. He 267 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 4: seems particularly invested in exploring that throughout his films. Think 268 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 4: about the lobster in the hotel that they go to, right, 269 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 4: That's the foundation for the entire film and also one 270 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 4: of the things he does really well. Despite how vast 271 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 4: this court is and how big these frames are, you 272 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 4: still get this is kind of claustrophobic effect because he'll 273 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 4: use the Orson Welles Citizen Kane technique of a lot 274 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 4: of shots that are low angle, and when we're seeing 275 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 4: a room and we're seeing a character or often characters 276 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 4: in a room, we also see the ceilings. There was 277 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 4: one I was just rewatching today where we see m 278 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 4: Astone I think it's in the hot chocolate scene, and 279 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 4: she goes to pour it, so she's bending down. She's 280 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 4: already kind of low in the frame. The camera is 281 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 4: below her looking up, the ceiling feels as if it's 282 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 4: right on top of her because of that wide lens 283 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 4: and the decision to make sure that that ceiling appears 284 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 4: in that shot. The ceilings appear in almost every shot 285 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 4: in this film, which just keeps all of these characters 286 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 4: contained in a way that does feel appropriately oppressive. 287 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: Well, that's probably why it's really unique in this film. 288 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: Often we get a low angle shot of someone looking 289 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 3: up at them, and traditionally, most often that conveys a 290 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: sense of dominance and power to that character. It's the 291 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: exact opposite here is it somehow diminishes them, which of 292 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: course exactly the aim of the entire film. So I 293 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: think all of those techniques are very effective. I didn't. 294 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 3: I'd have to go back and watch again as well 295 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: to you know, identify a common through line to the 296 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 3: fish eye lens thing. But overall it it just does 297 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 3: distort our understanding of what this movie is going to be. 298 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 3: So I see it as part of the Again, this 299 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: is what Barry Linden sets out to do, is spoof 300 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: the genre as it is being this beautiful example of it. 301 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: So it's trying to have both ways, and I think 302 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: it does have both ways. The fish eye lens is 303 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: one way to kind of remind us that we're really 304 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 3: tweaking something here. The dance sequence is another thing where 305 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: we're we all know this is coming in a costume drama, 306 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: and maybe you know a lot of times those dances. 307 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan of musicals and dance numbers, but 308 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: when I get one in a costume drama, I start 309 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 3: to kind of sink a little bit because I feel like, yeah, 310 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 3: it starts outay. I feel like I know these routines right, 311 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 3: and no, this goes a little bit differently. Yes, And 312 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: so that's part to the satire. As are the wigs. 313 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 3: I mean, these are the craziest wigs I've seen in 314 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: a costume drama, and quite true. 315 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 4: Nicholas holds very good in this film as the leader 316 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 4: of the story, the opposition party who apparently in this 317 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 4: time actually just existed at court and we're kind of 318 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 4: a bug in the queen's ear or her advisor's ears 319 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 4: every single day. I think is really good. But you're right, 320 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 4: that wig goes beyond anything we've seen before. Barry Lyndon, 321 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 4: obviously in Kubrick, is a very good touchstone for this 322 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 4: movie as well. Including you can tell using the natural 323 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 4: light and candle light, which he does in this film, 324 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 4: like Lindon scenes. I love the way that does give 325 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 4: a certain beauty to those nighttime scenes, but also a 326 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 4: darkness that adds to the overall kind of grimness of it. 327 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 4: And then in the daytime it's all coming in from 328 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 4: those huge windows, and it's England, so of course it's 329 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 4: not sunny and gorgeous. It's gray outside, which also adds 330 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 4: to this sense of this court maybe being not quite 331 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 4: as regal as it perhaps purports to be. 332 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 5: Understand me never lived outside God's house? What so Bella 333 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 5: so much to discover? And your sad face makes me 334 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 5: discover angry feelings for you. 335 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 4: Right become very thing I hate, grasping suckulus of a lover. 336 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 3: So not quite as divisive of a film here in 337 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 3: Poor Things, Adam, I think I've largely seen positive responses, 338 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 3: but certainly a movie that could provoke such reactions. I 339 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 3: think you have to come out of the film feeling 340 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 3: fairly strongly one way or the other. Ironically, I don't 341 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 3: know that I did, but as we've seen with Saltburn, 342 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 3: maybe I'm just too rational in these cases. Do you 343 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: have a stronger, more spirited opinion to give us when 344 00:18:59,119 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: it comes to poor things. 345 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, I do have a very strong positive reaction to 346 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 4: poor things, though it didn't necessarily start that way. It's 347 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 4: a Lanthemos movie, so it will surprise no one to 348 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 4: hear that. The first twenty to thirty minutes I found 349 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 4: so utterly bizarre and twisted. I never really got my 350 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 4: footing with it and kind of thought if there was 351 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 4: someone out there who really dislikes his films, and thought 352 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 4: this was now just going to be almost a parody 353 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 4: of Yurgo's Lanthemos. I could see how this movie, or 354 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 4: at least the beginning of this movie, might support such 355 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 4: a theory. And yet by the time Emma Stone's Bella 356 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 4: character gets away from her father figure and gets on 357 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 4: the road or gets out to sea eventually with Mark 358 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: Ruffalo's character. That's really where I got on board with 359 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 4: this movie. It's so formally inventive and fantastical. It makes 360 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 4: the new Miyazaki seem almost prosaic by comparison. 361 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 3: I thought of that too. Oh yeah, there's some Miyazaki 362 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 3: esthetic touches here. The skies, the purplish skies, for sure. 363 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 4: Some of the ships even or Yeah, the boat looks 364 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 4: against those backdrops with an Emma Stone performance that simultaneously 365 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 4: grounds it and elevates it. Josh, at this point, I'm 366 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 4: not sure I expected to come away from any movie 367 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 4: being surprised by how smart and how playful a Stone 368 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 4: performance could be. But that's what happened here. Her command 369 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 4: and dexterity with the dialogue as Bella gathers more information 370 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 4: and intelligence, the humor that comes from that, her evolving 371 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 4: physicality from those those awkward, stiff legged, you know, baby 372 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 4: steps to becoming this woman so comfortable in her own 373 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 4: skin that her very being is a challenge to the patriarchy. 374 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 4: There's just a theatricality to it physically, verbally that I think, 375 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 4: in the hands of a less skilled performer could come 376 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 4: off as so forced and could be so easily dismissed. 377 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 4: But she just brings this bravado, this audacity, this confidence 378 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 4: to it that I think really is what propelled me 379 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 4: through this in addition to the sheer imagination of it. 380 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it's that sheer imagination that, you know, 381 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: lands me on the side of recommending the film again. 382 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: Like saltburn In hopes that folks will see it and 383 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: like it even more than I did, which it sounds 384 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 3: like you did. But in terms of my experience with 385 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 3: the film, I had the opposite. One was I was 386 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: on board immediately. Maybe it was that, you know, Frankenstein 387 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: Lab experimental setting, which I'm a sucker for already, and 388 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 3: any movie that nods to like the James Whale Frankenstein. 389 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: Although cleverly those sequences shot in color, I think that 390 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 3: was a wise choice on Lanthymosa's part, not black and 391 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 3: white like other parts of the film are. I'm in 392 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: for all that stuff, right, but it did eventually wear 393 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 3: me out, where by the end I was thinking, you know, 394 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 3: maybe on another day I would have laughed my way 395 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: through this entire thing, but now I'm just kind of exhausted. 396 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 3: I think this is an example Adam. I would not 397 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 3: say it's a parody of Lanthemos. I think it's Lanthymos 398 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 3: getting to do whatever he wants after the favorite and 399 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 3: the Oscar clout, and you know the power that gave him, 400 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 3: and so he chooses this novel. I'm assuming it's a 401 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 3: bizarre novel from ninety two. I'm unfamiliar with it. Scottish 402 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 3: author Alistair Gray wrote this that it's based on and 403 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 3: just indulged in whatever you know, Macabwim dark comic impulse, 404 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 3: that that material inspired that the screenplay here is actually 405 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: by Tony McNamara, But Lanthemos is absolutely the guiding creative 406 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 3: force though Stone to your point, you know, I think 407 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: she can be credited equally for what this film is doing. 408 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: And I noted her partnership with Lanthemos in The Favorite. 409 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: She's a producer here, and so I think both of 410 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: them are just completely unrestrained, and sometimes that can result 411 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 3: in the greatest art of someone's career. Sometimes it results 412 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 3: in a parody of themselves. For me, this is somewhere 413 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: in between. It's absolutely pure artistic expression. It's free from 414 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: any commercial concerns. Stone to your point, is gleefully smashing 415 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 3: any preconceived notions of her Bersona. She already did that 416 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: to a degree in The Favorite, I think, but this 417 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 3: is way beyond and to your point about the creativity. 418 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 3: They're being supported, the two of them by costume design, 419 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 3: art direction, production design that is so unfettered and so 420 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 3: incredible that it absolutely I could keep looking at this 421 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: movie even as I was getting exhausted by what it 422 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: was doing. At the same time, those interludes breaks between 423 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 3: the sections which are almost these tableaus, these black and 424 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 3: white moving paintings with Stone at the center. I wish 425 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: those had been on screen longer, just to gaze at. 426 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: I mean, the artistry on display. This is a signature 427 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 3: achievement and as I said, just utterly exhausting. And I'm 428 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 3: afraid I have to say eventually Stone's performance fell in 429 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 3: that category for me as well. I think you're everything 430 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 3: you described is right. This is so technically impressive. The 431 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 3: degree of difficulty that she is trying to pull off 432 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 3: I can admire. But it did eventually begin to become 433 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 3: more about the lengths of outrageousness that she could perform. 434 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 3: I think it takes a turn away from that at 435 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 3: the end, but there's a long middle section where it's 436 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: mostly about whatever outrageous thing Bella can do, and Stone 437 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 3: just has her foot down the puddle down on that 438 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 3: so hard that it was in the same register as 439 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: you know, think about the fish eye lenses that are 440 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 3: employed here or there. There's also I would love to 441 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 3: hear what your take was on this other esthetic touch. 442 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 3: It's sort of a peephole aspect ratio that cinematographer Robbie 443 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 3: Ryan employs. Those things became exhausting as well, and I 444 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 3: felt like Stone's performance fell in that category too. But yeah, 445 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 3: did you what did you make of the cinematography here? 446 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 3: And not only the color changes in black and white, 447 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 3: but these aspect ratios, the fish eye lens. It was 448 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 3: just so much. 449 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 4: It's a lot. I'm on board with the indulgence in 450 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 4: this case. I wasn't so on board with the fish 451 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 4: eye here, which is ironic because I'm pretty sure I 452 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 4: praised it how it was employed in the Favorite. 453 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked it there. 454 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 4: Here, maybe I'm conflating the two different techniques you're talking about, 455 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 4: but even with the fish eye, my sense here watching 456 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 4: it was that it was almost meant to convey like 457 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 4: we're peeking through a door and we're spying on something 458 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 4: that maybe we shouldn't be seeing. And on one hand, 459 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 4: I can make a case for that, and then on 460 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 4: another hand, I'm not sure I can entirely justify it. 461 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 4: With this material. It definitely didn't add to my experience 462 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 4: in a significant way, and actually, in contrast to the Favorite, 463 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 4: it felt more randomly and frequently imposed here. I agree, 464 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 4: and that that, if anything, is the one indulgence that 465 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 4: I found a little bit exhaustive about the film. And 466 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 4: I know ultimately you are praising Stone's performance even if 467 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 4: it wore you out too, But that language you're using, 468 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 4: I get it. The degree of difficulty, or the riskiness, 469 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 4: the the technical nature of it. She is a very 470 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 4: precise actress. And yet to still have that come through again, 471 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 4: this speaks to the theatricality of it, I think, to 472 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 4: have that precision come through, but for it never to 473 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 4: feel for me cold, or ever to smother that that humanity, 474 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 4: that that never happened for me with this character. She 475 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 4: was constantly a delight to me, and an amusing one 476 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 4: at that. And then add to it, Mark Ruffalo. 477 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: Oh, and he's just wonderful. 478 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 4: An actor I somehow underestimated because I guess I didn't 479 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 4: know that he was capable of this, even though I 480 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 4: probably should be aware of that. And I'm vaguely aware 481 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 4: of his Stella Adler observatory training. So you would think 482 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 4: he could play a capital C character like this, and 483 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 4: yet I'm not sure I can remember a time when 484 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 4: he's done it. The pitch couldn't be more perfect here 485 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 4: with this Duncan Wedderburn character. Everything that Rake that Kad 486 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 4: says is such a devilish delight, and the more ridiculous 487 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 4: he's rendered, the more hilarious and fun he is. I 488 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 4: loved every moment he was on screen, and they were 489 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 4: on screen together. 490 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 3: I completely agree with you on his performance. I'm looking 491 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 3: through his credits now, and you know the one that 492 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 3: immediately came to mind. It's in a much calmer register. 493 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 3: But he definitely has some dry humor as Bruce Banner 494 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: in the Avengers films. But this is, you know, way 495 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: degrees above. This may be something like Ryan Johnson The 496 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 3: Brothers Bloom. You know, Ryan Johnson's early film is the closest. 497 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 3: He does not work with this sort of material, but 498 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 3: I hope he does. He should do more of it 499 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 3: because he was. Aside from the art direction and those 500 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 3: esthetic elements, probably my favorite part of the film. 501 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 5: These two are fighting and ideas of banging around in 502 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 5: Bella's head in heart like lights in the storm. 503 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 4: Oh you're always reading now, Ben, You're losing some of 504 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 4: your adorable live speaking. 505 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 5: I'm a changeable feast, as are all of we, apparently, 506 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 5: according to Emerson, disagreed with by Harry, Come Come, just 507 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 5: come you were and my son what. 508 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 4: Access to the full archive is just one of the 509 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 4: many benefits you get as a film Spotting Family member. 510 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 4: You also get monthly bonus shows like getting to hear 511 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 4: and maybe participate in drafts like the Tom Cruise draft 512 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 4: we recently conducted with listener Zach Cook in Chicago. That 513 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 4: was a fun one. You also get the weekly newsletter, 514 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 4: You get to participate in our Film Spotting Family discord, 515 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 4: you get early access to events and tickets and discounts 516 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 4: on those tickets, and a whole lot more, and you 517 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 4: can learn more at film Spotting Family dot com. 518 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 5: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. 519 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 2: Good Bye. 520 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 4: Film Spotting as listeners supported, join the film Spotting Family 521 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 4: at film Spotting Family dot com and get access to 522 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 4: ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, 523 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 4: for the first time, all in one place, the entire 524 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 4: film Spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. 525 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 4: That's a film Spotting Family dot Com Panically