WEBVTT - “You’ll Search Differently in a Year”: Adam Epstein on the Future of Digital Ads 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.480 Welcome back to Possible Now. Today, we are diving into 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:12.119 the future of digital advertising, competition, and innovation with a 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.560 true industry trail blazer, Adam Epstein, co CEO of at Marketplace. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:21.040 Adam's journey is nothing short of fascinating. From his early 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:23.960 days as a lawyer in New York to launching one 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.000 of the first Internet sports broadcasting platforms, and now leading 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.200 one of the most disruptive forces in search advertising. He's 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.559 seen every angle of the digital revolution. Under Adams leadership, 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.479 at Marketplace has been pioneering native search, reshaping how brands 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.599 connect with consumers beyond the traditional wallet guardens. We will 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.440 unpack the power of native search, the impact of policy 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.000 on digital competition, and what the future holds for brands 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:57.400 navigating an evolving advertising landscape. Plus, we will explore Adam's 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.840 personal journey, his transition from law to time tech, his 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.480 entrepreneurial mindset, and the lessons he's learned from building and 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:09.120 scaling businesses in an ever changing industry. Get ready for 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.080 a slightly different, but fast paced, insightful conversation with one 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:18.000 of the most forward thinking leaders in digital advertising. Adam. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:19.000 Welcome to the. 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.680 Show, Christian, Thank you so much great to be here. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.200 So let's share maybe a kind of secret with my 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.280 audience here. As I know, and I think it must 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.760 be around twenty years ago. So you answered a Craigslist 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:36.160 ad for a part time legal gig at marketplace and 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:38.880 now your co CEO Congress. By the way, thank you. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.360 Be honest when you hit the send button on that 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.080 application years ago, did you ever imagine you would be 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.720 leading the company two decades later? Of course? 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.480 Yeah. I mean, you know, you don't try to compete 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.160 on as you want to win, So yeah, I've always 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.120 been pretty ambitious, and I was coming off of a 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:01.320 startup that you mentioned, was doing sports podcast live before 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.520 the iPod even existed, so we were a little early 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.160 to market. And I got married and my wife said, 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:07.080 you know, I think you need to go get a 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.320 real job. And I was still, I think, optimistic about 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.320 what was going to happen with that other company, but 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.560 she was right, as she often is, and so I 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.080 started hustling around looking for you know, kind of business 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.280 legal gigs, and you know, the folks here needed some help. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.840 So I thought, okay, I'll go there and fix some 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:24.720 problems and make into a huge company and you know, 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.320 try to run it some day, and that's what happened. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:27.919 So it worked out. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.360 That's a bold expectation, to be honest. I like that 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.200 very much. So I think at market Place at this 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.400 time was maybe just around four or five years old. 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.480 So what fascinated you about the company at this time, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:39.280 I'll be. 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:40.480 A lot of it had to do with Jamie Hill. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.960 I mean, Jamie was the was the founder, and I mean, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.320 you know, he literally said to me during my interview, hey, 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.160 you know, if you come here fix some problems, you know, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.160 you can sit in this chair someday. And you know, 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.960 he's somebody who has just you know, great, great business savvy. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.000 And I enjoyed our twenty year conversation about how to 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.200 make ad tech more effective, how to stay alive in 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.400 ad tech takes a really long view of, you know, 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.639 building a business for the long term, and I think 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.720 that's a little bit different than other companies that were 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.280 raising a lot of money and trying to sell quickly. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:10.639 You know, we just had a different approach, and it's 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.360 one that allowed us to really dig into, you know, 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.880 what the real problems are and go for the nugget, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.000 as we call it, and then try to come up 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.720 with a solution, and sometimes that takes a while. 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.000 So now we've learned that you started in law, what 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.000 make you pivot to tech an entrepreneurship. I mean it's 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.160 a different direction for sure. Was that one dedicated moment? 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.520 Was it just you know, joining at marketplace and you 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.360 knew that this was the right move into a different direction. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:37.840 Was there a moment you can share with us, you know, 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.360 what make you done this kind of move over to 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.480 entrepreneurship and technologies? 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.240 Yeah? I mean billing hours and six minute increments, I 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.040 think was what did it for me. I was working 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.720 for a big law firm and realizing I was literally 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.400 selling my time and no matter how innovative or interesting 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.040 I could come up with an insight and her idea, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:58.200 it was going to still get paid at a zero 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.280 point one hour. And I thought that's not a great 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.480 place to be. So you know, went and tried my 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.680 hand as an entrepreneur and again just too early to 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.120 a market And then you know, went and found another 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.120 group of entrepreneurs and joined them with Jamie and you 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.200 know took another swing. So which I think is part 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.280 of the journey and maybe why lawyers don't always make 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.200 such great entrepreneurs that you have to take some risks 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.040 and you know it's not always going to pay off 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.080 the first time. And if you learn and you get 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.560 back up and keep trying. You know, if you've been 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.040 on a path where it's been you know, a good 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.400 law school and a good college and a good good 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.560 law firm and a good clerkship, it's hard to sort 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.760 of take yourself off that path and say, look, I'm 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.120 going to go into the unknown and there's going to 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.480 be some failures here, but you know, it pays off. 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.080 And I think your twenties is all about doing stuff 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:41.520 like that. 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.719 Right, Right, And I assume you know having such a 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.440 legal background helps a lot also in your role today, right, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.080 I mean not many are coming from that angle, as 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:54.000 we said, Are there any other learnings out of your 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.359 time at court where you feel, you know, you still 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.560 have an advantage compared to others, maybe on the exacttive level. 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:02.880 Yeah, you know, I think the cool thing about law 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.200 school and being an attorney is you really need to 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.600 be comfortable with ambiguity, and you really need to be 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.040 comfortable with both sides of an argument. And you know, 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.080 just this morning, I was having a conversation with someone 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:14.920 and I, you know, needed to take the other side 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.919 of the argument so that they could understand where I 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.919 was coming from. But then you know, quickly pivot and 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.120 take their side of the argument as well. And if 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.640 you can see both sides of an argument as well 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.840 as the person you're having the discussion with, it's going 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.480 to be a much deeper and richer discussion. So that's 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.000 something as a layer, you never know which side you're 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.159 going to be on, it doesn't really matter, and you 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.640 know whichever side you're on, you can try to understand 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.120 it as much as you can, and you also understand 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:38.760 that your arguments will be better if you kind of 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.000 understand the other side really well as well. And I 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:42.880 think that helps in business. I think being able to 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.360 see things from other people's perspectives and helping give words 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.120 to them where they're trying to sort out what their 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.000 real needs, concerns, and constraints are. That's a valuable gift 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:52.800 and it's something I try to remember to do. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.200 And also the different roles at the same company, right 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:00.119 from COO to CEO co CEO, what would you say, 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.919 what are the immediate differences you know between those roles, 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.320 especially when you work still for the same company and 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:06.279 not changing jobs. 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:08.919 Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't know how much titles 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.320 really matter after a certain point. You know, I've never 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.279 really gotten real stuck on them. My take is you 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.440 try to solve the problem in front of you, and 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.640 if you do that, they usually give you bigger problems. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.719 And at some point you're dealing with the biggest problems 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.600 the company has, and whatever your title is, it doesn't 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.160 really matter. So I don't know that much change due 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.159 to a title change. I think just you know, a 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.479 lot has changed due to industry changes and the fact 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.080 that I've had an opportunity to be a little bit 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.160 more involved in some of the antitrust stuff that's going on, 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.440 you know, because I have a legal background and really 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.120 just know that you can show up to a courtroom 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.400 and watch the closing arguments and they can't kick you out. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.400 And that was something I wanted to do to, you know, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.320 see what was going on in our industry after twenty years. 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.919 So I think maybe just from that perspective, it just 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.479 under you know, made me understand that there's it's possible 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.600 to do things that other people might not have even 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.800 known were possible. So that was it's about how how 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:58.400 it works. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.320 You right, right, So you've mentions this now already, and 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.400 let's talk about policies and competition in the next couple 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.279 of minutes. What do you saying, how have recent policy 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.960 changes in regulations influenced competition in the digital advertising industry? 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.120 Maybe you can give our listeners a first kind of 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.840 all of you from your perspectives. 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.480 Sure, so, you know, the United States, let's just start there, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:24.480 has really struggled with how to regulate digital industries. I mean, 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.920 you know, let's maybe keep it at that level. And 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.040 it goes back to Microsoft was found to be a 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:35.080 monopoly in two thousand and the remedy did not go well. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.960 The judge, I think, had some personal animosity towards Bill Gates, 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.600 sort of made some comments to the press, you know, 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.280 tried to break them up, got overruled by the appeals court, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:46.960 and then. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:47.960 Got kicked off the case. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.000 So then there's another judge who came in, and you know, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.200 about ten years later, they sort of figured it out 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.600 and they didn't break up Microsoft. Obviously. What they did 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.960 was they separated the browser from the operating system so 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.239 that other browsers could compete, and of course Google competed 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.080 and built Chrome, which is amazing browser, and then they 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.560 started leveraging that browser to get more searches. And then 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.720 the search monopoly was prosecuted begin with the Trump administration 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.200 about four years ago, and then the decision came out 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.600 last August, and now they're trying to figure out how 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:20.520 to do the remedy. But we're sort of back where 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.760 we were twenty five years ago, which is, you know, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.440 how are we going to have some sort of market 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.200 competition in digital where it is so easy if you 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.640 have the best product to build on that advantage and 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.480 take monopoly control of not only your industry but several 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.880 other markets as well. And that's a real important question 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.000 for us to get right. And I don't blame anybody 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.160 at any of these companies. When you're not having enforcement, 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.720 you have to follow your incentives. And you know, the 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.760 incentive has been to you know, grow your market share 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.280 and grow your revenue and grow your stock price, and 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.240 until they can figure it out, you've got to sort 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.560 of keep doing that. So, you know, I wanted to 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.640 try to help figure that out. And when you're talking 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.200 about a digital monopoly, I think what you really are 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.640 talking about is a little bit less sexy than maybe 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.320 a breakup, and probably a little bit more effective when 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.800 you're talking about literally licensing terms, because you're talking about 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:10.880 how ones and zeros and data are going to flow 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.080 back and forth and on what terms, and what's the 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.480 regulation that's going to guide that, And when one company 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.000 has a lot of power and the other ones don't, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.080 then those terms can get a little one sided. So 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.720 it's it's really, in my opinion, an opportunity for us 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.839 to figure out how to, you know, not only make 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.840 the search industry more competitive for users and advertisers and publishers, 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.360 but also you know, kind of a guidepost for the 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.880 entire digital market to understand that there are ways that 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.360 the courts can help us if they're being thoughtful and 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.960 creating competition in an industry where you know, it can 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.480 be winner take all very very easily. So you know, 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.960 this is something that I'm obviously very passionate about. I'm 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.760 very interested in. I think it's important. I think a 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.840 lot of the downstream problems that we see with you know, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.040 M and A and even acquisitions not being able to 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.200 go through because there's concerns that later on they might 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.079 become a monopoly. I think we can think if we 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.160 can solve the problem here, there's gonna be some knock 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.760 on effects that are going to help entrepreneurs and folks 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.120 in a lot of different related industries in ways that 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.280 maybe not be obvious when you just look at one 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:08.920 single case. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.439 Do you look into the US situation specifically or is 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:13.880 it more a global approach? 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.160 Great question. So the European Union obviously is a little 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:18.800 bit more aggressive on this this. You know, we're talking 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.439 about US companies though, so their take is to really 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.880 wait for the US to figure out if they can 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.200 have a posture or point of view, and then to 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.120 do a fast follow. So I've been in touch with, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.760 you know, the leading folks over in Europe, and they're 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.800 certainly keeping tabs and eyes on what's going on here. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.280 So I wouldn't be surprised that if we get to 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.000 a remedy that's effective and thoughtful here, that you don't 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.600 see Europe fast follow on that remedy very very quickly. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.400 So that's a great question. I think it really is 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:45.559 up to the courts here to set a standard for 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:46.280 the entire world to. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.400 Follow right and talk about government policy, do you want 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.280 to see them playing a bigger role, or that they 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.040 should step away from that a bit more than currently. 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.920 Do you want a bigger role for government coming up 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.040 as policy rules and playing around with that. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.520 I mean, my personal take is generally no, but you know, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.320 in the current environment, it's it's it's really zero role 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.480 because the legislative branch hasn't been able to get on 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.240 the same page. And you know, for whatever reasons, the 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.840 incentives there have not been able to align. So it 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.440 really isn't to come down to the courts to do this. 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:21.320 And you know, I think Jefferson said government is best, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.640 that govern's least, but they do need to govern a 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.600 little bit, and so we do need some government intervention. 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:29.720 And I think, you know, the judge in this case 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.160 so far has looked like he's very well studied on 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.560 the matter. He's you know, got a particular case in 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.720 front of him. The dj has done a great job, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.640 and Google's been very active in this as well. So 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.320 you know, this might be the right confluence of events 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.920 to set a standard that you know, can be followed 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.240 and oppressingly be followed by others. You know, our system 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.079 is great because you know, you get three bites of 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.040 the apple. If the executive can't do it and the 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.400 legislature can't do it, then the courts can can step in. 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.600 So and if they screwed up, then you know, the 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.400 executive and the legislator get another shot at it. So yeah, 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.000 I think something needs to be done, and right now 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.360 it's just been way too long with nothing, and that's 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.040 not helpful for anybody trying to make decisions about how 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.599 to build a business or you know, to set strategy 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.199 when you know you at least want to know what 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:11.920 the rules are. If we know what the rules are 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.960 and they're clear, everybody can follow them. But when there's 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:15.559 there's no rules and it's not clear who's going to 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.640 make the rules, I think that's actually a worse position 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:18.920 for our industry. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.800 So do you tend to say current regulations are encouraging 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.600 or stifel innovation in the act tech industry? Right now? 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:27.440 I don't think there's a lot of regulations. I mean, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.840 I guess privacy, so we don't do a lot of privacy. 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.320 We're pretty privacy sensitive, so we don't run into that 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.560 a lot. And other than that, I don't think there's 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.200 a ton of regulation in our industry. And you know 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:40.920 that's going to change a little bit in search. Obviously, 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.760 we have the decision and we're trying to figure out 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.280 how it's going to change, and it could be anything 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.600 from divestor of Chrome to opening up all the data, 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.600 to syndication or some combination of those remedies. And it's 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.959 the syndication remedy that we're obviously part of our proposal. 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.199 So we think that that's basically getting a set of 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.440 licensing terms, making sure they're enforceable and making sure they're 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.680 complied with that be sufficient and so yeah, I mean 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:02.960 I think there needs to be a little bit more 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.040 than there is. And yeah, not too cold, not too hot, 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.000 but just medium, right like a glodialk situation. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.559 So listen to you, Adam. I assume you would agree 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:17.160 with a statement saying that major platforms benefiting disproportionately from 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.200 policy changes and making it harder for independent ethic companies 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.040 to thrive. Would you agree on that or do you 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:24.480 have a different view on that. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.120 I'm pro competition, so you know, I don't know who 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:29.840 the winners are going to be. You know, if the 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.959 syndication MD goes through, certainly we're going to compete. You know, 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:34.520 I assume a lot of people are going to compete, 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.120 and you know, all you really want in capitalism, I 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.319 think is a shot to win. If you can execute 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.400 and have a strategy and put together group people and 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.480 leave them in a way that's effective to the market, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.560 that's serving the folks who in delivering value. That's all 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.840 you can do. Now. Sometimes being big as an advantage, 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.680 there sometimes not being big as an advantage. So you know, 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.360 it's not that I think we need to be picking 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.000 winners and losers. We need to be setting up a 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.440 market that allows for the market to pick winners and 0:13:58.480 --> 0:13:59.680 losers and more than just one. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.920 Are there any policy changes, immediate policy changes you would 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.640 like to see that could create a more level playing 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.200 field for digital advertisers. If you have a wish list, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.360 you know for tomorrow, what would it be right? 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.080 You know? My wish list is basically a memo that 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.120 we wrote back in September, and it has to do 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.480 with the search industry, which is where we've been for 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.400 twenty years. So this is what I know, and I 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.400 don't want to step too far out of the lane 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.720 of of what I know about I will say that 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.360 I do think that this, you know, could be a 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:32.200 precedent for how digital monopolies are governed, and you know, 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.600 for creating competition in the space, which is to you know, 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.040 set fair and reasonable and not discriminatory licensing terms, you know, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.520 with a judge and at tendable committee to enforce them. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.200 So I think that is a that might be a 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.600 model that can be adopted other places where you have 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.880 you know, dominance and control by a single entity with 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.920 the digital monopoly. So but I don't want to pretend 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.320 that you know, I know every single ad tech markets 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.240 in and outs and nuances to have a remedy, I 0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.600 just you know, we think we have an idea that 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.280 would work here, and we think that, you know, the 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.520 result will be a much better at search experience for 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.720 users and in advertisers, and in higher yield for search publishers. 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.600 And if those three things happen, then maybe there's a 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.200 way to take some of the learnings from this and 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:14.280 apply them other places. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.680 So let's talk about at marketplace specifically. You know, the 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:37.040 balance between you know, compliance was evolving regulations and at 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.920 the same time as at marketplace coming up with innovation 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.720 and a competitive advantage in this area, how does it 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.800 work for at marketplace? And maybe it leads us over 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.560 to you know, nature search, which is your core business, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.920 and also to give those who are a bit unfamiliar 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.600 with the concept, you know, and kind of overview what 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.000 exactly is native search and how does it differ from 0:15:58.040 --> 0:15:59.360 traditional search advertising. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.640 Yeah, yeah, happy to do that. Yeah. So, so native 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.520 search is a media channel and when users are conducting 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.560 searches outside of a legacy search engine, so we're curating 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.000 you know, exclusive high value media opportunities with a CPC 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.680 advertising that really aligns the incentives of the users, the advertisers, 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.000 and the publishers so that we can deliver relevant ads 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.440 and then measure the media transparently. And whether that allows 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.280 us to do is really build longer term partnerships and 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.680 be a little bit less transactional because we're really investing 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.840 in these integrations and and you know, in our advertisers 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.040 are our performance advertisers, so they tend to be forever 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.160 partners as long as you're able to deliver the media 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.600 quality and you know, the consumer trends are you know 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:41.920 at our back right, the wins that are back on 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.240 these things. So the consumer journey is increasingly beginning and 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.440 ending outside of the legacy search engine. You may be 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.240 yourself starting to play around with AI search chatbots and 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.400 they're amazing. You know, down to a shopping financing by 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.320 not pay later app to the new tab page of 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.600 a browser. Those are all areas where we're leading on modernization. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.480 And then you know, the largest advertisers, most sophisticate advertiser 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.399 in the world are looking to diversify their budgets to 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.560 find you know, incremental opportunities to reach consumers who are 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.040 who are expressing intent. So you know, we're a little 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.320 constrained by more than a little constrained by you know, 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.040 the dominance of the of the of the monopoly power. 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.160 But you know that's it is what it is, and 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.199 you know we talked about that earlier on how that 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.520 might change. But the the user, right that the searcher, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.240 we're all searchers. You can imagine a world in which 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.320 we're not all having the you know, sort of same 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.280 search experience, but we can go to different places for 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.480 a unique and differentiated experience that has you know, Google 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.000 results alongside whatever your favorite AI search bot might be, 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.760 whether it's Perplexity or grock or chat GPT. And you know, 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.119 wouldn't that be cool if like there's different privacy settings 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.439 that were available and you know, different ad loads. So 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:53.639 you know, when you think about a differentiating a unique 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.000 search experience, I think that's right around the corner, and 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.160 I think that's gonna be great for industry and it's 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.640 going to you know, obviously, between AI and anti trust, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.280 we think native search is a pretty exciting place to be. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.400 You've mentioned obviously AI and machine learning reshaping digital advertising 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.800 and of course also native search campaigns. What exactly sets 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.919 your approach apart from the competition working using AI technology? 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.080 Is it a dedicated tool service you offer as at 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.479