Speaker 1: Welcome back to Possible Now. Today, we are diving into
Speaker 1: the future of digital advertising, competition, and innovation with a
Speaker 1: true industry trail blazer, Adam Epstein, co CEO of at Marketplace.
Speaker 1: Adam's journey is nothing short of fascinating. From his early
Speaker 1: days as a lawyer in New York to launching one
Speaker 1: of the first Internet sports broadcasting platforms, and now leading
Speaker 1: one of the most disruptive forces in search advertising. He's
Speaker 1: seen every angle of the digital revolution. Under Adams leadership,
Speaker 1: at Marketplace has been pioneering native search, reshaping how brands
Speaker 1: connect with consumers beyond the traditional wallet guardens. We will
Speaker 1: unpack the power of native search, the impact of policy
Speaker 1: on digital competition, and what the future holds for brands
Speaker 1: navigating an evolving advertising landscape. Plus, we will explore Adam's
Speaker 1: personal journey, his transition from law to time tech, his
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial mindset, and the lessons he's learned from building and
Speaker 1: scaling businesses in an ever changing industry. Get ready for
Speaker 1: a slightly different, but fast paced, insightful conversation with one
Speaker 1: of the most forward thinking leaders in digital advertising. Adam.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the.
Speaker 2: Show, Christian, Thank you so much great to be here.
Speaker 1: So let's share maybe a kind of secret with my
Speaker 1: audience here. As I know, and I think it must
Speaker 1: be around twenty years ago. So you answered a Craigslist
Speaker 1: ad for a part time legal gig at marketplace and
Speaker 1: now your co CEO Congress. By the way, thank you.
Speaker 1: Be honest when you hit the send button on that
Speaker 1: application years ago, did you ever imagine you would be
Speaker 1: leading the company two decades later? Of course?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, you don't try to compete
Speaker 2: on as you want to win, So yeah, I've always
Speaker 2: been pretty ambitious, and I was coming off of a
Speaker 2: startup that you mentioned, was doing sports podcast live before
Speaker 2: the iPod even existed, so we were a little early
Speaker 2: to market. And I got married and my wife said,
Speaker 2: you know, I think you need to go get a
Speaker 2: real job. And I was still, I think, optimistic about
Speaker 2: what was going to happen with that other company, but
Speaker 2: she was right, as she often is, and so I
Speaker 2: started hustling around looking for you know, kind of business
Speaker 2: legal gigs, and you know, the folks here needed some help.
Speaker 2: So I thought, okay, I'll go there and fix some
Speaker 2: problems and make into a huge company and you know,
Speaker 2: try to run it some day, and that's what happened.
Speaker 2: So it worked out.
Speaker 1: That's a bold expectation, to be honest. I like that
Speaker 1: very much. So I think at market Place at this
Speaker 1: time was maybe just around four or five years old.
Speaker 1: So what fascinated you about the company at this time,
Speaker 1: I'll be.
Speaker 2: A lot of it had to do with Jamie Hill.
Speaker 2: I mean, Jamie was the was the founder, and I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, he literally said to me during my interview, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, if you come here fix some problems, you know,
Speaker 2: you can sit in this chair someday. And you know,
Speaker 2: he's somebody who has just you know, great, great business savvy.
Speaker 2: And I enjoyed our twenty year conversation about how to
Speaker 2: make ad tech more effective, how to stay alive in
Speaker 2: ad tech takes a really long view of, you know,
Speaker 2: building a business for the long term, and I think
Speaker 2: that's a little bit different than other companies that were
Speaker 2: raising a lot of money and trying to sell quickly.
Speaker 2: You know, we just had a different approach, and it's
Speaker 2: one that allowed us to really dig into, you know,
Speaker 2: what the real problems are and go for the nugget,
Speaker 2: as we call it, and then try to come up
Speaker 2: with a solution, and sometimes that takes a while.
Speaker 1: So now we've learned that you started in law, what
Speaker 1: make you pivot to tech an entrepreneurship. I mean it's
Speaker 1: a different direction for sure. Was that one dedicated moment?
Speaker 1: Was it just you know, joining at marketplace and you
Speaker 1: knew that this was the right move into a different direction.
Speaker 1: Was there a moment you can share with us, you know,
Speaker 1: what make you done this kind of move over to
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship and technologies?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean billing hours and six minute increments, I
Speaker 2: think was what did it for me. I was working
Speaker 2: for a big law firm and realizing I was literally
Speaker 2: selling my time and no matter how innovative or interesting
Speaker 2: I could come up with an insight and her idea,
Speaker 2: it was going to still get paid at a zero
Speaker 2: point one hour. And I thought that's not a great
Speaker 2: place to be. So you know, went and tried my
Speaker 2: hand as an entrepreneur and again just too early to
Speaker 2: a market And then you know, went and found another
Speaker 2: group of entrepreneurs and joined them with Jamie and you
Speaker 2: know took another swing. So which I think is part
Speaker 2: of the journey and maybe why lawyers don't always make
Speaker 2: such great entrepreneurs that you have to take some risks
Speaker 2: and you know it's not always going to pay off
Speaker 2: the first time. And if you learn and you get
Speaker 2: back up and keep trying. You know, if you've been
Speaker 2: on a path where it's been you know, a good
Speaker 2: law school and a good college and a good good
Speaker 2: law firm and a good clerkship, it's hard to sort
Speaker 2: of take yourself off that path and say, look, I'm
Speaker 2: going to go into the unknown and there's going to
Speaker 2: be some failures here, but you know, it pays off.
Speaker 2: And I think your twenties is all about doing stuff
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Right, Right, And I assume you know having such a
Speaker 1: legal background helps a lot also in your role today, right,
Speaker 1: I mean not many are coming from that angle, as
Speaker 1: we said, Are there any other learnings out of your
Speaker 1: time at court where you feel, you know, you still
Speaker 1: have an advantage compared to others, maybe on the exacttive level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think the cool thing about law
Speaker 2: school and being an attorney is you really need to
Speaker 2: be comfortable with ambiguity, and you really need to be
Speaker 2: comfortable with both sides of an argument. And you know,
Speaker 2: just this morning, I was having a conversation with someone
Speaker 2: and I, you know, needed to take the other side
Speaker 2: of the argument so that they could understand where I
Speaker 2: was coming from. But then you know, quickly pivot and
Speaker 2: take their side of the argument as well. And if
Speaker 2: you can see both sides of an argument as well
Speaker 2: as the person you're having the discussion with, it's going
Speaker 2: to be a much deeper and richer discussion. So that's
Speaker 2: something as a layer, you never know which side you're
Speaker 2: going to be on, it doesn't really matter, and you
Speaker 2: know whichever side you're on, you can try to understand
Speaker 2: it as much as you can, and you also understand
Speaker 2: that your arguments will be better if you kind of
Speaker 2: understand the other side really well as well. And I
Speaker 2: think that helps in business. I think being able to
Speaker 2: see things from other people's perspectives and helping give words
Speaker 2: to them where they're trying to sort out what their
Speaker 2: real needs, concerns, and constraints are. That's a valuable gift
Speaker 2: and it's something I try to remember to do.
Speaker 1: And also the different roles at the same company, right
Speaker 1: from COO to CEO co CEO, what would you say,
Speaker 1: what are the immediate differences you know between those roles,
Speaker 1: especially when you work still for the same company and
Speaker 1: not changing jobs.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't know how much titles
Speaker 2: really matter after a certain point. You know, I've never
Speaker 2: really gotten real stuck on them. My take is you
Speaker 2: try to solve the problem in front of you, and
Speaker 2: if you do that, they usually give you bigger problems.
Speaker 2: And at some point you're dealing with the biggest problems
Speaker 2: the company has, and whatever your title is, it doesn't
Speaker 2: really matter. So I don't know that much change due
Speaker 2: to a title change. I think just you know, a
Speaker 2: lot has changed due to industry changes and the fact
Speaker 2: that I've had an opportunity to be a little bit
Speaker 2: more involved in some of the antitrust stuff that's going on,
Speaker 2: you know, because I have a legal background and really
Speaker 2: just know that you can show up to a courtroom
Speaker 2: and watch the closing arguments and they can't kick you out.
Speaker 2: And that was something I wanted to do to, you know,
Speaker 2: see what was going on in our industry after twenty years.
Speaker 2: So I think maybe just from that perspective, it just
Speaker 2: under you know, made me understand that there's it's possible
Speaker 2: to do things that other people might not have even
Speaker 2: known were possible. So that was it's about how how
Speaker 2: it works.
Speaker 1: You right, right, So you've mentions this now already, and
Speaker 1: let's talk about policies and competition in the next couple
Speaker 1: of minutes. What do you saying, how have recent policy
Speaker 1: changes in regulations influenced competition in the digital advertising industry?
Speaker 1: Maybe you can give our listeners a first kind of
Speaker 1: all of you from your perspectives.
Speaker 2: Sure, so, you know, the United States, let's just start there,
Speaker 2: has really struggled with how to regulate digital industries. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, let's maybe keep it at that level. And
Speaker 2: it goes back to Microsoft was found to be a
Speaker 2: monopoly in two thousand and the remedy did not go well.
Speaker 2: The judge, I think, had some personal animosity towards Bill Gates,
Speaker 2: sort of made some comments to the press, you know,
Speaker 2: tried to break them up, got overruled by the appeals court,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 1: Got kicked off the case.
Speaker 2: So then there's another judge who came in, and you know,
Speaker 2: about ten years later, they sort of figured it out
Speaker 2: and they didn't break up Microsoft. Obviously. What they did
Speaker 2: was they separated the browser from the operating system so
Speaker 2: that other browsers could compete, and of course Google competed
Speaker 2: and built Chrome, which is amazing browser, and then they
Speaker 2: started leveraging that browser to get more searches. And then
Speaker 2: the search monopoly was prosecuted begin with the Trump administration
Speaker 2: about four years ago, and then the decision came out
Speaker 2: last August, and now they're trying to figure out how
Speaker 2: to do the remedy. But we're sort of back where
Speaker 2: we were twenty five years ago, which is, you know,
Speaker 2: how are we going to have some sort of market
Speaker 2: competition in digital where it is so easy if you
Speaker 2: have the best product to build on that advantage and
Speaker 2: take monopoly control of not only your industry but several
Speaker 2: other markets as well. And that's a real important question
Speaker 2: for us to get right. And I don't blame anybody
Speaker 2: at any of these companies. When you're not having enforcement,
Speaker 2: you have to follow your incentives. And you know, the
Speaker 2: incentive has been to you know, grow your market share
Speaker 2: and grow your revenue and grow your stock price, and
Speaker 2: until they can figure it out, you've got to sort
Speaker 2: of keep doing that. So, you know, I wanted to
Speaker 2: try to help figure that out. And when you're talking
Speaker 2: about a digital monopoly, I think what you really are
Speaker 2: talking about is a little bit less sexy than maybe
Speaker 2: a breakup, and probably a little bit more effective when
Speaker 2: you're talking about literally licensing terms, because you're talking about
Speaker 2: how ones and zeros and data are going to flow
Speaker 2: back and forth and on what terms, and what's the
Speaker 2: regulation that's going to guide that, And when one company
Speaker 2: has a lot of power and the other ones don't,
Speaker 2: then those terms can get a little one sided. So
Speaker 2: it's it's really, in my opinion, an opportunity for us
Speaker 2: to figure out how to, you know, not only make
Speaker 2: the search industry more competitive for users and advertisers and publishers,
Speaker 2: but also you know, kind of a guidepost for the
Speaker 2: entire digital market to understand that there are ways that
Speaker 2: the courts can help us if they're being thoughtful and
Speaker 2: creating competition in an industry where you know, it can
Speaker 2: be winner take all very very easily. So you know,
Speaker 2: this is something that I'm obviously very passionate about. I'm
Speaker 2: very interested in. I think it's important. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of the downstream problems that we see with you know,
Speaker 2: M and A and even acquisitions not being able to
Speaker 2: go through because there's concerns that later on they might
Speaker 2: become a monopoly. I think we can think if we
Speaker 2: can solve the problem here, there's gonna be some knock
Speaker 2: on effects that are going to help entrepreneurs and folks
Speaker 2: in a lot of different related industries in ways that
Speaker 2: maybe not be obvious when you just look at one
Speaker 2: single case.
Speaker 1: Do you look into the US situation specifically or is
Speaker 1: it more a global approach?
Speaker 2: Great question. So the European Union obviously is a little
Speaker 2: bit more aggressive on this this. You know, we're talking
Speaker 2: about US companies though, so their take is to really
Speaker 2: wait for the US to figure out if they can
Speaker 2: have a posture or point of view, and then to
Speaker 2: do a fast follow. So I've been in touch with,
Speaker 2: you know, the leading folks over in Europe, and they're
Speaker 2: certainly keeping tabs and eyes on what's going on here.
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't be surprised that if we get to
Speaker 2: a remedy that's effective and thoughtful here, that you don't
Speaker 2: see Europe fast follow on that remedy very very quickly.
Speaker 2: So that's a great question. I think it really is
Speaker 2: up to the courts here to set a standard for
Speaker 2: the entire world to.
Speaker 1: Follow right and talk about government policy, do you want
Speaker 1: to see them playing a bigger role, or that they
Speaker 1: should step away from that a bit more than currently.
Speaker 1: Do you want a bigger role for government coming up
Speaker 1: as policy rules and playing around with that.
Speaker 2: I mean, my personal take is generally no, but you know,
Speaker 2: in the current environment, it's it's it's really zero role
Speaker 2: because the legislative branch hasn't been able to get on
Speaker 2: the same page. And you know, for whatever reasons, the
Speaker 2: incentives there have not been able to align. So it
Speaker 2: really isn't to come down to the courts to do this.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think Jefferson said government is best,
Speaker 2: that govern's least, but they do need to govern a
Speaker 2: little bit, and so we do need some government intervention.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the judge in this case
Speaker 2: so far has looked like he's very well studied on
Speaker 2: the matter. He's you know, got a particular case in
Speaker 2: front of him. The dj has done a great job,
Speaker 2: and Google's been very active in this as well. So
Speaker 2: you know, this might be the right confluence of events
Speaker 2: to set a standard that you know, can be followed
Speaker 2: and oppressingly be followed by others. You know, our system
Speaker 2: is great because you know, you get three bites of
Speaker 2: the apple. If the executive can't do it and the
Speaker 2: legislature can't do it, then the courts can can step in.
Speaker 2: So and if they screwed up, then you know, the
Speaker 2: executive and the legislator get another shot at it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think something needs to be done, and right now
Speaker 2: it's just been way too long with nothing, and that's
Speaker 2: not helpful for anybody trying to make decisions about how
Speaker 2: to build a business or you know, to set strategy
Speaker 2: when you know you at least want to know what
Speaker 2: the rules are. If we know what the rules are
Speaker 2: and they're clear, everybody can follow them. But when there's
Speaker 2: there's no rules and it's not clear who's going to
Speaker 2: make the rules, I think that's actually a worse position
Speaker 2: for our industry.
Speaker 1: So do you tend to say current regulations are encouraging
Speaker 1: or stifel innovation in the act tech industry? Right now?
Speaker 2: I don't think there's a lot of regulations. I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess privacy, so we don't do a lot of privacy.
Speaker 2: We're pretty privacy sensitive, so we don't run into that
Speaker 2: a lot. And other than that, I don't think there's
Speaker 2: a ton of regulation in our industry. And you know
Speaker 2: that's going to change a little bit in search. Obviously,
Speaker 2: we have the decision and we're trying to figure out
Speaker 2: how it's going to change, and it could be anything
Speaker 2: from divestor of Chrome to opening up all the data,
Speaker 2: to syndication or some combination of those remedies. And it's
Speaker 2: the syndication remedy that we're obviously part of our proposal.
Speaker 2: So we think that that's basically getting a set of
Speaker 2: licensing terms, making sure they're enforceable and making sure they're
Speaker 2: complied with that be sufficient and so yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I think there needs to be a little bit more
Speaker 2: than there is. And yeah, not too cold, not too hot,
Speaker 2: but just medium, right like a glodialk situation.
Speaker 1: So listen to you, Adam. I assume you would agree
Speaker 1: with a statement saying that major platforms benefiting disproportionately from
Speaker 1: policy changes and making it harder for independent ethic companies
Speaker 1: to thrive. Would you agree on that or do you
Speaker 1: have a different view on that.
Speaker 2: I'm pro competition, so you know, I don't know who
Speaker 2: the winners are going to be. You know, if the
Speaker 2: syndication MD goes through, certainly we're going to compete. You know,
Speaker 2: I assume a lot of people are going to compete,
Speaker 2: and you know, all you really want in capitalism, I
Speaker 2: think is a shot to win. If you can execute
Speaker 2: and have a strategy and put together group people and
Speaker 2: leave them in a way that's effective to the market,
Speaker 2: that's serving the folks who in delivering value. That's all
Speaker 2: you can do. Now. Sometimes being big as an advantage,
Speaker 2: there sometimes not being big as an advantage. So you know,
Speaker 2: it's not that I think we need to be picking
Speaker 2: winners and losers. We need to be setting up a
Speaker 2: market that allows for the market to pick winners and
Speaker 2: losers and more than just one.
Speaker 1: Are there any policy changes, immediate policy changes you would
Speaker 1: like to see that could create a more level playing
Speaker 1: field for digital advertisers. If you have a wish list,
Speaker 1: you know for tomorrow, what would it be right?
Speaker 2: You know? My wish list is basically a memo that
Speaker 2: we wrote back in September, and it has to do
Speaker 2: with the search industry, which is where we've been for
Speaker 2: twenty years. So this is what I know, and I
Speaker 2: don't want to step too far out of the lane
Speaker 2: of of what I know about I will say that
Speaker 2: I do think that this, you know, could be a
Speaker 2: precedent for how digital monopolies are governed, and you know,
Speaker 2: for creating competition in the space, which is to you know,
Speaker 2: set fair and reasonable and not discriminatory licensing terms, you know,
Speaker 2: with a judge and at tendable committee to enforce them.
Speaker 2: So I think that is a that might be a
Speaker 2: model that can be adopted other places where you have
Speaker 2: you know, dominance and control by a single entity with
Speaker 2: the digital monopoly. So but I don't want to pretend
Speaker 2: that you know, I know every single ad tech markets
Speaker 2: in and outs and nuances to have a remedy, I
Speaker 2: just you know, we think we have an idea that
Speaker 2: would work here, and we think that, you know, the
Speaker 2: result will be a much better at search experience for
Speaker 2: users and in advertisers, and in higher yield for search publishers.
Speaker 2: And if those three things happen, then maybe there's a
Speaker 2: way to take some of the learnings from this and
Speaker 2: apply them other places.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about at marketplace specifically. You know, the
Speaker 1: balance between you know, compliance was evolving regulations and at
Speaker 1: the same time as at marketplace coming up with innovation
Speaker 1: and a competitive advantage in this area, how does it
Speaker 1: work for at marketplace? And maybe it leads us over
Speaker 1: to you know, nature search, which is your core business,
Speaker 1: and also to give those who are a bit unfamiliar
Speaker 1: with the concept, you know, and kind of overview what
Speaker 1: exactly is native search and how does it differ from
Speaker 1: traditional search advertising.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, happy to do that. Yeah. So, so native
Speaker 2: search is a media channel and when users are conducting
Speaker 2: searches outside of a legacy search engine, so we're curating
Speaker 2: you know, exclusive high value media opportunities with a CPC
Speaker 2: advertising that really aligns the incentives of the users, the advertisers,
Speaker 2: and the publishers so that we can deliver relevant ads
Speaker 2: and then measure the media transparently. And whether that allows
Speaker 2: us to do is really build longer term partnerships and
Speaker 2: be a little bit less transactional because we're really investing
Speaker 2: in these integrations and and you know, in our advertisers
Speaker 2: are our performance advertisers, so they tend to be forever
Speaker 2: partners as long as you're able to deliver the media
Speaker 2: quality and you know, the consumer trends are you know
Speaker 2: at our back right, the wins that are back on
Speaker 2: these things. So the consumer journey is increasingly beginning and
Speaker 2: ending outside of the legacy search engine. You may be
Speaker 2: yourself starting to play around with AI search chatbots and
Speaker 2: they're amazing. You know, down to a shopping financing by
Speaker 2: not pay later app to the new tab page of
Speaker 2: a browser. Those are all areas where we're leading on modernization.
Speaker 2: And then you know, the largest advertisers, most sophisticate advertiser
Speaker 2: in the world are looking to diversify their budgets to
Speaker 2: find you know, incremental opportunities to reach consumers who are
Speaker 2: who are expressing intent. So you know, we're a little
Speaker 2: constrained by more than a little constrained by you know,
Speaker 2: the dominance of the of the of the monopoly power.
Speaker 2: But you know that's it is what it is, and
Speaker 2: you know we talked about that earlier on how that
Speaker 2: might change. But the the user, right that the searcher,
Speaker 2: we're all searchers. You can imagine a world in which
Speaker 2: we're not all having the you know, sort of same
Speaker 2: search experience, but we can go to different places for
Speaker 2: a unique and differentiated experience that has you know, Google
Speaker 2: results alongside whatever your favorite AI search bot might be,
Speaker 2: whether it's Perplexity or grock or chat GPT. And you know,
Speaker 2: wouldn't that be cool if like there's different privacy settings
Speaker 2: that were available and you know, different ad loads. So
Speaker 2: you know, when you think about a differentiating a unique
Speaker 2: search experience, I think that's right around the corner, and
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna be great for industry and it's
Speaker 2: going to you know, obviously, between AI and anti trust,
Speaker 2: we think native search is a pretty exciting place to be.
Speaker 1: You've mentioned obviously AI and machine learning reshaping digital advertising
Speaker 1: and of course also native search campaigns. What exactly sets
Speaker 1: your approach apart from the competition working using AI technology?
Speaker 1: Is it a dedicated tool service you offer as at
Speaker 1: a marketplace? Is there anything you can share with us
Speaker 1: to better understand, okay, that it's a big differentiator, you know,
Speaker 1: to the competitors in the market.
Speaker 2: Look, I mean, I think we use AI and you
Speaker 2: know in a lot of different ways, analytics to software development.
Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of folks are doing that as well.
Speaker 2: What I'm more interested in is what the consumer is
Speaker 2: doing and where they're expressing intent. And you know, as
Speaker 2: a user, you know, I'm starting to use AI to
Speaker 2: put together a travel itinerary, you know, for a trip
Speaker 2: I did to Poland in December on a last minute Hey,
Speaker 2: what's stay the weekend and go to Poland and do
Speaker 2: a little exhibition with my dad. And within you know,
Speaker 2: thirty seconds, it had the hotel, the restaurants. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was a amazing and what it didn't have is
Speaker 2: links to go and buy and convert on those things.
Speaker 2: And I was thinking to myself, you know this would
Speaker 2: really this to me, looks a lot like search and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, I've expressed intent and I'm you know, getting results,
Speaker 2: and now I you know, can't go to where I
Speaker 2: want to go to convert. So I'm really excited to
Speaker 2: start to fix that problem and allow those basically search
Speaker 2: engines of the future, the AI chat bots, to be
Speaker 2: able to get some monetization going and to you know,
Speaker 2: support more innovation there. So, you know, I think from
Speaker 2: the consumer perspective, you know, they're finding that there are
Speaker 2: some amazing resources out there powered by AI that answer
Speaker 2: their intent in ways that they maybe never imagined before.
Speaker 2: So that's super exciting to me.
Speaker 1: So with consumer behavior, your search behaviors changing also dramatically.
Speaker 1: So you're saying native search is definitely the solution and
Speaker 1: the core you know, solving any kind of issues or
Speaker 1: problems here or modernization.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to allow advertisers to engage with those users.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean that's you know, the definition of
Speaker 2: native search is really users expressing intent outside of a
Speaker 2: legacy search engine, and AI would certainly qualify for that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean we you know, we're very interested
Speaker 2: in working on innovations to bring modetization there in a
Speaker 2: way that advertisers can understand the volume and the value
Speaker 2: and it can be aggregated for them so they can
Speaker 2: you know, extend their their their marketing efforts to follow
Speaker 2: the consumer.
Speaker 1: Definitely a focus for your businesses in the future. So
Speaker 1: talk about the future that, let's say the next two
Speaker 1: three years. Where do you see native search heating too
Speaker 1: in the next two three years and what innovations can
Speaker 1: we expect from at marketplace specifically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've never been more excited. I mean,
Speaker 2: between the consumers interest in AI and the technology that's
Speaker 2: coming out every day there from a you know, response
Speaker 2: to the consumer intent, it's amazing. And then obviously the
Speaker 2: anti trust remedy that will come down this year. So
Speaker 2: you know, what we're doing is, you know, we've we've
Speaker 2: grown internationally over the last five years. We've really invested
Speaker 2: in Europe and that team's doing amazing. We've rebuilt our
Speaker 2: platform from the ground up, a platform that's served us
Speaker 2: well for fifteen years. A little sad to see it go,
Speaker 2: but you know it's a new era and we need
Speaker 2: a new platform. And then, you know, i'd say across
Speaker 2: the board with our team just you know, really have
Speaker 2: brought on amazing talent and you know, we're in the
Speaker 2: office ninety percent of the time. We have been since
Speaker 2: since you know, Sumber twenty twenty. But that's you know,
Speaker 2: the way that we capture ideas and get market feedback
Speaker 2: and get insights and go big. So you know, we
Speaker 2: we've got great partnerships on the publisher side, on the
Speaker 2: advertiser side, and you know, we're really just trying to
Speaker 2: execute a really high level, you know, to be prepared
Speaker 2: for change. And you know, we've we've dealt with change
Speaker 2: many times in our twenty five years and we think
Speaker 2: another one of those moments is upcoming, and we know
Speaker 2: that the more that we can be prepared for it,
Speaker 2: the better that we can serve the industry.
Speaker 1: So are there any other big challenges you know in
Speaker 1: scanning net to search solutions except the the you know,
Speaker 1: the policies and regulations. Is there anything else you would say? This?
Speaker 1: This comes next?
Speaker 2: You know, measurement is always a you know, an important
Speaker 2: thing to do, and we you know, we take that
Speaker 2: very seriously. We work actually both with our publishers and
Speaker 2: our advertisers. If you think about it, you know, we're
Speaker 2: kind of the biggest buyer of native search out there
Speaker 2: before we sell it to our advertisers. And you don't
Speaker 2: stay in business for twenty five years unless you take
Speaker 2: media value pretty seriously. So we're always looking for new
Speaker 2: ways to be more accurate and transparent with with with
Speaker 2: with media value measurement. Yeah, and then you know, it
Speaker 2: just comes down to relevance right at the end of
Speaker 2: the day. You know, search is really hard because you've
Speaker 2: got to you know, have an amazing search experience for
Speaker 2: the user who's expecting a high standard for relevance, and
Speaker 2: you know, we continue to push ourselves to meet that standard.
Speaker 2: So those are the two things that I think will
Speaker 2: never stop thinking about. And then you know, the market
Speaker 2: forces will do what the market forces do, but we'll
Speaker 2: we'll just continue to try to get better at the
Speaker 2: at the core competencies.
Speaker 1: Awesome, So what would be your key advice to give
Speaker 1: marketers looking to integrate native search into their strategy for
Speaker 1: the first time. I mean, there are not many you
Speaker 1: know who would do it for the first time, but yeah,
Speaker 1: just in case. What see the key argument to do this, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, the key argument is efficiency at scale to uh,
Speaker 2: you know, bend the curve on diminishing returns that you're
Speaker 2: seeing from media portfolio. It's it's a pretty easy argument.
Speaker 2: It's it's more usually what we've got to overcome is,
Speaker 2: you know, hey, is there enough scale for me? And
Speaker 2: you know, I've set up all my processes to kind
Speaker 2: of work with one or two partners and here's a
Speaker 2: third partner. But once they understand that, you know, we
Speaker 2: provide services and it's really kind of a white glove
Speaker 2: situation with great reporting and transparency into where your media
Speaker 2: is running. You know, those are all things we've we've
Speaker 2: worked really hard at the last few years to to
Speaker 2: really upgrade. So yeah, I mean, it's it's more just
Speaker 2: you know, being open and transparent about what your objectives
Speaker 2: are and what you're trying to accomplish, and you know,
Speaker 2: sharing your creative assets and your post click data back
Speaker 2: with us because that's what we're gonna used to optimize
Speaker 2: and you know, if you're used to dealing with a
Speaker 2: walled garden platform that you you know, view as a potential,
Speaker 2: you know, threat or competitor. Sometimes the policies that have
Speaker 2: been adopted are not to have a really close partnership.
Speaker 2: So we like to think of our advertisers forever partners
Speaker 2: and we really approach them that way, so you know,
Speaker 2: having the ability to understand it, you know, there is
Speaker 2: a different way to do search when you're talking outside
Speaker 2: the legacy engines. I think that's usually the first thing
Speaker 2: we need to establish, you know, trust and safety about.
Speaker 1: So again looking into the future, but what would be
Speaker 1: your one bag prediction you have for the future of
Speaker 1: the advertising and competition in the industry. What is your
Speaker 1: prediction and maybe what would be your what would be
Speaker 1: for you the perfect world, you know, looking twelve months ahead.
Speaker 2: So I'll say my big prediction is that you're going
Speaker 2: to be searching completely different and completely differently in twelve
Speaker 2: months than you are right now, and you know that's
Speaker 2: going to have effects on the entire digital landscape. So
Speaker 2: I don't know that everybody's really understanding, you know, what's
Speaker 2: possible and they're thinking that it's going to be you know,
Speaker 2: appeals and delays, and you know, perhaps on some of
Speaker 2: the you know, bigger ticket items there might be, but
Speaker 2: on the stuff that's impactful, I think you're going to
Speaker 2: see an impact to our search experience sooner than later,
Speaker 2: and I think it's going to be meaningful.
Speaker 1: So we thought it with some personal questions, and I
Speaker 1: would like to run it up. Was one coming back
Speaker 1: to this one more time. You've navigated massive shifts and
Speaker 1: digital media, legal disputes, major leadership transitions. How do you
Speaker 1: personally stay resilient and adaptable in such a dynamic industry.
Speaker 1: I think many are in this similar situation obviously, but
Speaker 1: with your specific you know, background and experience. I would
Speaker 1: be really interesting to hear your personal strategy here.
Speaker 2: I just find it so interesting. I just think that
Speaker 2: everything about ad tech, I mean, you know, from getting
Speaker 2: into it twenty years ago and it was a nascent business,
Speaker 2: and you know, you go into this little corner of
Speaker 2: the world that's done nothing but change over the last
Speaker 2: twenty years, and you know, you either get excited about
Speaker 2: that and you wake up every day and you say, look,
Speaker 2: I'm going to walk into something that I'm not expecting
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have to you know, work with a
Speaker 2: team of people to try to figure that out. And
Speaker 2: that either gets you super motivated or in some cases
Speaker 2: super demotivated. I mean we you know, I see the
Speaker 2: you know, engagement surveys and some people are like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, we had to switch too much, or you know,
Speaker 2: we were doing one thing and then we had to do
Speaker 2: another thing, and you realize that's not for everybody. Like this,
Speaker 2: this industry is not for everybody, and you know, I
Speaker 2: think it's really important that you have to have that
Speaker 2: kind of outlook. And as a result, when you go
Speaker 2: to you know, folks like places like Possible in that conference,
Speaker 2: you see a lot of people have that attitude. Are
Speaker 2: who are up you know, for for for things, and
Speaker 2: they're resilient and they're curious and they're down to collaborate,
Speaker 2: and you know that's you know, so it's like the
Speaker 2: people in the industry are kind of fun because of that.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's always a new idea and there's
Speaker 2: a new thing that consumers doing, and there's a new
Speaker 2: thing the advertiser's trying to figure out. And if you
Speaker 2: can be a good partner to those folks and listen
Speaker 2: and share some insights and you know you'll you'll get
Speaker 2: a little further ahead. So I think that's what really
Speaker 2: motivates me is is you know, the idea that this
Speaker 2: has not been boring, and as somebody who's probably a
Speaker 2: little bit ADHD, not boring is a really attractive quality
Speaker 2: of this industry and it keeps me super motivated. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that statement. I
Speaker 1: like this very much, and I think you could provide
Speaker 1: a lot of insights, you know, not just about your
Speaker 1: personal journey, but also about the business you're doing with
Speaker 1: at marketplace where you spend a lot of your time
Speaker 1: on policies and regulations and competition. And we will continue
Speaker 1: that conversation at possible. I'm really looking forward to see
Speaker 1: you and your whole team coming to Miami again and
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the conversation, Adam. Thanks a lot. I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to do this, you know, in a year's
Speaker 1: time again before the next show and see how things
Speaker 1: developed in the meantime with your help, with your support,
Speaker 1: with your legal expertise. And thanks again for being on
Speaker 1: our show.
Speaker 2: Christian, Thank you, and thank you from the industry for
Speaker 2: everything you've done, you know with Possible and really bringing
Speaker 2: that level of event to the United States into Miami.
Speaker 2: It was a complete success last year. I can't wait
Speaker 2: to go back down this year. And you know see
Speaker 2: the group of people you put together, So it's it's
Speaker 2: a real service and it's important for industry that folks
Speaker 2: like your are out there, you know, make these connections
Speaker 2: and putting on this content. So I really appreciate the
Speaker 2: time today and rolling forward to h to scene in Miami.
Speaker 1: Thanks Adam, thanks for tuning in everyone. Once again, I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Christian Mohan. If you have a question or
Speaker 1: suggestion to me, reach out, send me a d M
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. If you're courious to learn more about Possible,
Speaker 1: sign up for our newsletter, or if you want to
Speaker 1: join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit Possible
Speaker 1: event dot com. Possible Now is a co production of
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Martz and
Speaker 1: Yasmin Melendez. Our supervising producer is Meritis Barnes. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Colleen Lawrence mac from our programming team. Our THEMEUZ
Speaker 1: is composed by Anthony Ketticoli. For more podcasts from iHeart,
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