1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Possible Now. Today, we are diving into 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: the future of digital advertising, competition, and innovation with a 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: true industry trail blazer, Adam Epstein, co CEO of at Marketplace. 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Adam's journey is nothing short of fascinating. From his early 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: days as a lawyer in New York to launching one 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: of the first Internet sports broadcasting platforms, and now leading 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: one of the most disruptive forces in search advertising. He's 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: seen every angle of the digital revolution. Under Adams leadership, 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: at Marketplace has been pioneering native search, reshaping how brands 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: connect with consumers beyond the traditional wallet guardens. We will 11 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: unpack the power of native search, the impact of policy 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: on digital competition, and what the future holds for brands 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: navigating an evolving advertising landscape. Plus, we will explore Adam's 14 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: personal journey, his transition from law to time tech, his 15 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: entrepreneurial mindset, and the lessons he's learned from building and 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: scaling businesses in an ever changing industry. Get ready for 17 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: a slightly different, but fast paced, insightful conversation with one 18 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: of the most forward thinking leaders in digital advertising. Adam. 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to the. 20 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: Show, Christian, Thank you so much great to be here. 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: So let's share maybe a kind of secret with my 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: audience here. As I know, and I think it must 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: be around twenty years ago. So you answered a Craigslist 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: ad for a part time legal gig at marketplace and 25 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: now your co CEO Congress. By the way, thank you. 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: Be honest when you hit the send button on that 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: application years ago, did you ever imagine you would be 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: leading the company two decades later? Of course? 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, you don't try to compete 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: on as you want to win, So yeah, I've always 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: been pretty ambitious, and I was coming off of a 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: startup that you mentioned, was doing sports podcast live before 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: the iPod even existed, so we were a little early 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: to market. And I got married and my wife said, 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: you know, I think you need to go get a 36 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: real job. And I was still, I think, optimistic about 37 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: what was going to happen with that other company, but 38 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: she was right, as she often is, and so I 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: started hustling around looking for you know, kind of business 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: legal gigs, and you know, the folks here needed some help. 41 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: So I thought, okay, I'll go there and fix some 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: problems and make into a huge company and you know, 43 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: try to run it some day, and that's what happened. 44 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: So it worked out. 45 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: That's a bold expectation, to be honest. I like that 46 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: very much. So I think at market Place at this 47 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: time was maybe just around four or five years old. 48 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: So what fascinated you about the company at this time, 49 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: I'll be. 50 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: A lot of it had to do with Jamie Hill. 51 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: I mean, Jamie was the was the founder, and I mean, 52 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: you know, he literally said to me during my interview, hey, 53 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: you know, if you come here fix some problems, you know, 54 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: you can sit in this chair someday. And you know, 55 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: he's somebody who has just you know, great, great business savvy. 56 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: And I enjoyed our twenty year conversation about how to 57 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: make ad tech more effective, how to stay alive in 58 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: ad tech takes a really long view of, you know, 59 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 2: building a business for the long term, and I think 60 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: that's a little bit different than other companies that were 61 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: raising a lot of money and trying to sell quickly. 62 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: You know, we just had a different approach, and it's 63 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: one that allowed us to really dig into, you know, 64 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: what the real problems are and go for the nugget, 65 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: as we call it, and then try to come up 66 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: with a solution, and sometimes that takes a while. 67 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: So now we've learned that you started in law, what 68 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: make you pivot to tech an entrepreneurship. I mean it's 69 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: a different direction for sure. Was that one dedicated moment? 70 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: Was it just you know, joining at marketplace and you 71 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: knew that this was the right move into a different direction. 72 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: Was there a moment you can share with us, you know, 73 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: what make you done this kind of move over to 74 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: entrepreneurship and technologies? 75 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean billing hours and six minute increments, I 76 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: think was what did it for me. I was working 77 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: for a big law firm and realizing I was literally 78 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: selling my time and no matter how innovative or interesting 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: I could come up with an insight and her idea, 80 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: it was going to still get paid at a zero 81 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: point one hour. And I thought that's not a great 82 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: place to be. So you know, went and tried my 83 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: hand as an entrepreneur and again just too early to 84 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: a market And then you know, went and found another 85 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: group of entrepreneurs and joined them with Jamie and you 86 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: know took another swing. So which I think is part 87 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 2: of the journey and maybe why lawyers don't always make 88 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: such great entrepreneurs that you have to take some risks 89 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 2: and you know it's not always going to pay off 90 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: the first time. And if you learn and you get 91 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: back up and keep trying. You know, if you've been 92 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 2: on a path where it's been you know, a good 93 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: law school and a good college and a good good 94 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: law firm and a good clerkship, it's hard to sort 95 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: of take yourself off that path and say, look, I'm 96 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: going to go into the unknown and there's going to 97 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: be some failures here, but you know, it pays off. 98 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: And I think your twenties is all about doing stuff 99 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: like that. 100 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: Right, Right, And I assume you know having such a 101 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: legal background helps a lot also in your role today, right, 102 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean not many are coming from that angle, as 103 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: we said, Are there any other learnings out of your 104 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: time at court where you feel, you know, you still 105 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: have an advantage compared to others, maybe on the exacttive level. 106 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think the cool thing about law 107 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: school and being an attorney is you really need to 108 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 2: be comfortable with ambiguity, and you really need to be 109 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: comfortable with both sides of an argument. And you know, 110 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: just this morning, I was having a conversation with someone 111 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: and I, you know, needed to take the other side 112 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 2: of the argument so that they could understand where I 113 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: was coming from. But then you know, quickly pivot and 114 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 2: take their side of the argument as well. And if 115 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: you can see both sides of an argument as well 116 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: as the person you're having the discussion with, it's going 117 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: to be a much deeper and richer discussion. So that's 118 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: something as a layer, you never know which side you're 119 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: going to be on, it doesn't really matter, and you 120 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: know whichever side you're on, you can try to understand 121 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: it as much as you can, and you also understand 122 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: that your arguments will be better if you kind of 123 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: understand the other side really well as well. And I 124 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: think that helps in business. I think being able to 125 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: see things from other people's perspectives and helping give words 126 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: to them where they're trying to sort out what their 127 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: real needs, concerns, and constraints are. That's a valuable gift 128 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: and it's something I try to remember to do. 129 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: And also the different roles at the same company, right 130 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,119 Speaker 1: from COO to CEO co CEO, what would you say, 131 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: what are the immediate differences you know between those roles, 132 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: especially when you work still for the same company and 133 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: not changing jobs. 134 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't know how much titles 135 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: really matter after a certain point. You know, I've never 136 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 2: really gotten real stuck on them. My take is you 137 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: try to solve the problem in front of you, and 138 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 2: if you do that, they usually give you bigger problems. 139 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 2: And at some point you're dealing with the biggest problems 140 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: the company has, and whatever your title is, it doesn't 141 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: really matter. So I don't know that much change due 142 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: to a title change. I think just you know, a 143 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: lot has changed due to industry changes and the fact 144 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: that I've had an opportunity to be a little bit 145 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: more involved in some of the antitrust stuff that's going on, 146 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: you know, because I have a legal background and really 147 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: just know that you can show up to a courtroom 148 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: and watch the closing arguments and they can't kick you out. 149 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: And that was something I wanted to do to, you know, 150 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: see what was going on in our industry after twenty years. 151 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 2: So I think maybe just from that perspective, it just 152 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: under you know, made me understand that there's it's possible 153 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 2: to do things that other people might not have even 154 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: known were possible. So that was it's about how how 155 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: it works. 156 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: You right, right, So you've mentions this now already, and 157 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: let's talk about policies and competition in the next couple 158 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: of minutes. What do you saying, how have recent policy 159 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: changes in regulations influenced competition in the digital advertising industry? 160 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: Maybe you can give our listeners a first kind of 161 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: all of you from your perspectives. 162 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: Sure, so, you know, the United States, let's just start there, 163 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: has really struggled with how to regulate digital industries. I mean, 164 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 2: you know, let's maybe keep it at that level. And 165 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: it goes back to Microsoft was found to be a 166 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: monopoly in two thousand and the remedy did not go well. 167 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: The judge, I think, had some personal animosity towards Bill Gates, 168 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: sort of made some comments to the press, you know, 169 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: tried to break them up, got overruled by the appeals court, 170 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: and then. 171 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Got kicked off the case. 172 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: So then there's another judge who came in, and you know, 173 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: about ten years later, they sort of figured it out 174 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: and they didn't break up Microsoft. Obviously. What they did 175 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: was they separated the browser from the operating system so 176 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 2: that other browsers could compete, and of course Google competed 177 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: and built Chrome, which is amazing browser, and then they 178 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: started leveraging that browser to get more searches. And then 179 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: the search monopoly was prosecuted begin with the Trump administration 180 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: about four years ago, and then the decision came out 181 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: last August, and now they're trying to figure out how 182 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: to do the remedy. But we're sort of back where 183 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: we were twenty five years ago, which is, you know, 184 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: how are we going to have some sort of market 185 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: competition in digital where it is so easy if you 186 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: have the best product to build on that advantage and 187 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: take monopoly control of not only your industry but several 188 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: other markets as well. And that's a real important question 189 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: for us to get right. And I don't blame anybody 190 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: at any of these companies. When you're not having enforcement, 191 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: you have to follow your incentives. And you know, the 192 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: incentive has been to you know, grow your market share 193 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: and grow your revenue and grow your stock price, and 194 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: until they can figure it out, you've got to sort 195 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: of keep doing that. So, you know, I wanted to 196 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: try to help figure that out. And when you're talking 197 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: about a digital monopoly, I think what you really are 198 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: talking about is a little bit less sexy than maybe 199 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: a breakup, and probably a little bit more effective when 200 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: you're talking about literally licensing terms, because you're talking about 201 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: how ones and zeros and data are going to flow 202 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: back and forth and on what terms, and what's the 203 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: regulation that's going to guide that, And when one company 204 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: has a lot of power and the other ones don't, 205 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: then those terms can get a little one sided. So 206 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: it's it's really, in my opinion, an opportunity for us 207 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 2: to figure out how to, you know, not only make 208 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: the search industry more competitive for users and advertisers and publishers, 209 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: but also you know, kind of a guidepost for the 210 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: entire digital market to understand that there are ways that 211 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: the courts can help us if they're being thoughtful and 212 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: creating competition in an industry where you know, it can 213 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: be winner take all very very easily. So you know, 214 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: this is something that I'm obviously very passionate about. I'm 215 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: very interested in. I think it's important. I think a 216 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: lot of the downstream problems that we see with you know, 217 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: M and A and even acquisitions not being able to 218 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: go through because there's concerns that later on they might 219 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 2: become a monopoly. I think we can think if we 220 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: can solve the problem here, there's gonna be some knock 221 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: on effects that are going to help entrepreneurs and folks 222 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: in a lot of different related industries in ways that 223 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: maybe not be obvious when you just look at one 224 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: single case. 225 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: Do you look into the US situation specifically or is 226 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: it more a global approach? 227 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: Great question. So the European Union obviously is a little 228 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: bit more aggressive on this this. You know, we're talking 229 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: about US companies though, so their take is to really 230 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: wait for the US to figure out if they can 231 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: have a posture or point of view, and then to 232 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: do a fast follow. So I've been in touch with, 233 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: you know, the leading folks over in Europe, and they're 234 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: certainly keeping tabs and eyes on what's going on here. 235 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: So I wouldn't be surprised that if we get to 236 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: a remedy that's effective and thoughtful here, that you don't 237 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: see Europe fast follow on that remedy very very quickly. 238 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: So that's a great question. I think it really is 239 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: up to the courts here to set a standard for 240 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: the entire world to. 241 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: Follow right and talk about government policy, do you want 242 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: to see them playing a bigger role, or that they 243 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: should step away from that a bit more than currently. 244 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: Do you want a bigger role for government coming up 245 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: as policy rules and playing around with that. 246 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: I mean, my personal take is generally no, but you know, 247 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: in the current environment, it's it's it's really zero role 248 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: because the legislative branch hasn't been able to get on 249 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: the same page. And you know, for whatever reasons, the 250 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: incentives there have not been able to align. So it 251 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: really isn't to come down to the courts to do this. 252 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: And you know, I think Jefferson said government is best, 253 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: that govern's least, but they do need to govern a 254 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: little bit, and so we do need some government intervention. 255 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, the judge in this case 256 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: so far has looked like he's very well studied on 257 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: the matter. He's you know, got a particular case in 258 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: front of him. The dj has done a great job, 259 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: and Google's been very active in this as well. So 260 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: you know, this might be the right confluence of events 261 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: to set a standard that you know, can be followed 262 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: and oppressingly be followed by others. You know, our system 263 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 2: is great because you know, you get three bites of 264 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: the apple. If the executive can't do it and the 265 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: legislature can't do it, then the courts can can step in. 266 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: So and if they screwed up, then you know, the 267 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: executive and the legislator get another shot at it. So yeah, 268 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: I think something needs to be done, and right now 269 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: it's just been way too long with nothing, and that's 270 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: not helpful for anybody trying to make decisions about how 271 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 2: to build a business or you know, to set strategy 272 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 2: when you know you at least want to know what 273 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 2: the rules are. If we know what the rules are 274 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 2: and they're clear, everybody can follow them. But when there's 275 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 2: there's no rules and it's not clear who's going to 276 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: make the rules, I think that's actually a worse position 277 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: for our industry. 278 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: So do you tend to say current regulations are encouraging 279 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: or stifel innovation in the act tech industry? Right now? 280 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: I don't think there's a lot of regulations. I mean, 281 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: I guess privacy, so we don't do a lot of privacy. 282 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 2: We're pretty privacy sensitive, so we don't run into that 283 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: a lot. And other than that, I don't think there's 284 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: a ton of regulation in our industry. And you know 285 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: that's going to change a little bit in search. Obviously, 286 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: we have the decision and we're trying to figure out 287 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: how it's going to change, and it could be anything 288 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: from divestor of Chrome to opening up all the data, 289 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: to syndication or some combination of those remedies. And it's 290 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 2: the syndication remedy that we're obviously part of our proposal. 291 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 2: So we think that that's basically getting a set of 292 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 2: licensing terms, making sure they're enforceable and making sure they're 293 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: complied with that be sufficient and so yeah, I mean 294 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: I think there needs to be a little bit more 295 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: than there is. And yeah, not too cold, not too hot, 296 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: but just medium, right like a glodialk situation. 297 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: So listen to you, Adam. I assume you would agree 298 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: with a statement saying that major platforms benefiting disproportionately from 299 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: policy changes and making it harder for independent ethic companies 300 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: to thrive. Would you agree on that or do you 301 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: have a different view on that. 302 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm pro competition, so you know, I don't know who 303 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: the winners are going to be. You know, if the 304 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 2: syndication MD goes through, certainly we're going to compete. You know, 305 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: I assume a lot of people are going to compete, 306 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: and you know, all you really want in capitalism, I 307 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 2: think is a shot to win. If you can execute 308 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: and have a strategy and put together group people and 309 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: leave them in a way that's effective to the market, 310 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: that's serving the folks who in delivering value. That's all 311 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 2: you can do. Now. Sometimes being big as an advantage, 312 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: there sometimes not being big as an advantage. So you know, 313 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: it's not that I think we need to be picking 314 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: winners and losers. We need to be setting up a 315 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 2: market that allows for the market to pick winners and 316 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 2: losers and more than just one. 317 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: Are there any policy changes, immediate policy changes you would 318 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: like to see that could create a more level playing 319 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: field for digital advertisers. If you have a wish list, 320 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: you know for tomorrow, what would it be right? 321 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 2: You know? My wish list is basically a memo that 322 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: we wrote back in September, and it has to do 323 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: with the search industry, which is where we've been for 324 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: twenty years. So this is what I know, and I 325 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: don't want to step too far out of the lane 326 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: of of what I know about I will say that 327 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: I do think that this, you know, could be a 328 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: precedent for how digital monopolies are governed, and you know, 329 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: for creating competition in the space, which is to you know, 330 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: set fair and reasonable and not discriminatory licensing terms, you know, 331 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: with a judge and at tendable committee to enforce them. 332 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: So I think that is a that might be a 333 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: model that can be adopted other places where you have 334 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: you know, dominance and control by a single entity with 335 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: the digital monopoly. So but I don't want to pretend 336 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 2: that you know, I know every single ad tech markets 337 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: in and outs and nuances to have a remedy, I 338 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: just you know, we think we have an idea that 339 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: would work here, and we think that, you know, the 340 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: result will be a much better at search experience for 341 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: users and in advertisers, and in higher yield for search publishers. 342 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: And if those three things happen, then maybe there's a 343 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: way to take some of the learnings from this and 344 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: apply them other places. 345 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: So let's talk about at marketplace specifically. You know, the 346 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: balance between you know, compliance was evolving regulations and at 347 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: the same time as at marketplace coming up with innovation 348 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: and a competitive advantage in this area, how does it 349 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: work for at marketplace? And maybe it leads us over 350 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: to you know, nature search, which is your core business, 351 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: and also to give those who are a bit unfamiliar 352 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: with the concept, you know, and kind of overview what 353 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: exactly is native search and how does it differ from 354 00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: traditional search advertising. 355 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, happy to do that. Yeah. So, so native 356 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: search is a media channel and when users are conducting 357 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: searches outside of a legacy search engine, so we're curating 358 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 2: you know, exclusive high value media opportunities with a CPC 359 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: advertising that really aligns the incentives of the users, the advertisers, 360 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: and the publishers so that we can deliver relevant ads 361 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: and then measure the media transparently. And whether that allows 362 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: us to do is really build longer term partnerships and 363 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: be a little bit less transactional because we're really investing 364 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: in these integrations and and you know, in our advertisers 365 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: are our performance advertisers, so they tend to be forever 366 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 2: partners as long as you're able to deliver the media 367 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 2: quality and you know, the consumer trends are you know 368 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: at our back right, the wins that are back on 369 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: these things. So the consumer journey is increasingly beginning and 370 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: ending outside of the legacy search engine. You may be 371 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: yourself starting to play around with AI search chatbots and 372 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: they're amazing. You know, down to a shopping financing by 373 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: not pay later app to the new tab page of 374 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: a browser. Those are all areas where we're leading on modernization. 375 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: And then you know, the largest advertisers, most sophisticate advertiser 376 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: in the world are looking to diversify their budgets to 377 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 2: find you know, incremental opportunities to reach consumers who are 378 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: who are expressing intent. So you know, we're a little 379 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: constrained by more than a little constrained by you know, 380 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: the dominance of the of the of the monopoly power. 381 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 2: But you know that's it is what it is, and 382 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 2: you know we talked about that earlier on how that 383 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: might change. But the the user, right that the searcher, 384 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: we're all searchers. You can imagine a world in which 385 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: we're not all having the you know, sort of same 386 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: search experience, but we can go to different places for 387 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: a unique and differentiated experience that has you know, Google 388 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: results alongside whatever your favorite AI search bot might be, 389 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: whether it's Perplexity or grock or chat GPT. And you know, 390 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 2: wouldn't that be cool if like there's different privacy settings 391 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: that were available and you know, different ad loads. So 392 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 2: you know, when you think about a differentiating a unique 393 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: search experience, I think that's right around the corner, and 394 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 2: I think that's gonna be great for industry and it's 395 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 2: going to you know, obviously, between AI and anti trust, 396 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: we think native search is a pretty exciting place to be. 397 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: You've mentioned obviously AI and machine learning reshaping digital advertising 398 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: and of course also native search campaigns. What exactly sets 399 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: your approach apart from the competition working using AI technology? 400 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: Is it a dedicated tool service you offer as at 401 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,479 Speaker 1: a marketplace? Is there anything you can share with us 402 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: to better understand, okay, that it's a big differentiator, you know, 403 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: to the competitors in the market. 404 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: Look, I mean, I think we use AI and you 405 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 2: know in a lot of different ways, analytics to software development. 406 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of folks are doing that as well. 407 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 2: What I'm more interested in is what the consumer is 408 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: doing and where they're expressing intent. And you know, as 409 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 2: a user, you know, I'm starting to use AI to 410 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: put together a travel itinerary, you know, for a trip 411 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: I did to Poland in December on a last minute Hey, 412 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: what's stay the weekend and go to Poland and do 413 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: a little exhibition with my dad. And within you know, 414 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 2: thirty seconds, it had the hotel, the restaurants. I mean, 415 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: it was a amazing and what it didn't have is 416 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: links to go and buy and convert on those things. 417 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: And I was thinking to myself, you know this would 418 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 2: really this to me, looks a lot like search and uh, 419 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 2: you know, I've expressed intent and I'm you know, getting results, 420 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: and now I you know, can't go to where I 421 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: want to go to convert. So I'm really excited to 422 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: start to fix that problem and allow those basically search 423 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: engines of the future, the AI chat bots, to be 424 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 2: able to get some monetization going and to you know, 425 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 2: support more innovation there. So, you know, I think from 426 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 2: the consumer perspective, you know, they're finding that there are 427 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: some amazing resources out there powered by AI that answer 428 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: their intent in ways that they maybe never imagined before. 429 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: So that's super exciting to me. 430 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: So with consumer behavior, your search behaviors changing also dramatically. 431 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: So you're saying native search is definitely the solution and 432 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: the core you know, solving any kind of issues or 433 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: problems here or modernization. 434 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and to allow advertisers to engage with those users. 435 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean that's you know, the definition of 436 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 2: native search is really users expressing intent outside of a 437 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 2: legacy search engine, and AI would certainly qualify for that. 438 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean we you know, we're very interested 439 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 2: in working on innovations to bring modetization there in a 440 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: way that advertisers can understand the volume and the value 441 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 2: and it can be aggregated for them so they can 442 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: you know, extend their their their marketing efforts to follow 443 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: the consumer. 444 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: Definitely a focus for your businesses in the future. So 445 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: talk about the future that, let's say the next two 446 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: three years. Where do you see native search heating too 447 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: in the next two three years and what innovations can 448 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: we expect from at marketplace specifically. 449 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've never been more excited. I mean, 450 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: between the consumers interest in AI and the technology that's 451 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 2: coming out every day there from a you know, response 452 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: to the consumer intent, it's amazing. And then obviously the 453 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: anti trust remedy that will come down this year. So 454 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 2: you know, what we're doing is, you know, we've we've 455 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: grown internationally over the last five years. We've really invested 456 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: in Europe and that team's doing amazing. We've rebuilt our 457 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: platform from the ground up, a platform that's served us 458 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 2: well for fifteen years. A little sad to see it go, 459 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 2: but you know it's a new era and we need 460 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: a new platform. And then, you know, i'd say across 461 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 2: the board with our team just you know, really have 462 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: brought on amazing talent and you know, we're in the 463 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: office ninety percent of the time. We have been since 464 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: since you know, Sumber twenty twenty. But that's you know, 465 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: the way that we capture ideas and get market feedback 466 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 2: and get insights and go big. So you know, we 467 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 2: we've got great partnerships on the publisher side, on the 468 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 2: advertiser side, and you know, we're really just trying to 469 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: execute a really high level, you know, to be prepared 470 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: for change. And you know, we've we've dealt with change 471 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: many times in our twenty five years and we think 472 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: another one of those moments is upcoming, and we know 473 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: that the more that we can be prepared for it, 474 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 2: the better that we can serve the industry. 475 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: So are there any other big challenges you know in 476 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: scanning net to search solutions except the the you know, 477 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: the policies and regulations. Is there anything else you would say? This? 478 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: This comes next? 479 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: You know, measurement is always a you know, an important 480 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: thing to do, and we you know, we take that 481 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: very seriously. We work actually both with our publishers and 482 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: our advertisers. If you think about it, you know, we're 483 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 2: kind of the biggest buyer of native search out there 484 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 2: before we sell it to our advertisers. And you don't 485 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 2: stay in business for twenty five years unless you take 486 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: media value pretty seriously. So we're always looking for new 487 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 2: ways to be more accurate and transparent with with with 488 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: with media value measurement. Yeah, and then you know, it 489 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 2: just comes down to relevance right at the end of 490 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: the day. You know, search is really hard because you've 491 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: got to you know, have an amazing search experience for 492 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: the user who's expecting a high standard for relevance, and 493 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: you know, we continue to push ourselves to meet that standard. 494 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: So those are the two things that I think will 495 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: never stop thinking about. And then you know, the market 496 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 2: forces will do what the market forces do, but we'll 497 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: we'll just continue to try to get better at the 498 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: at the core competencies. 499 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: Awesome, So what would be your key advice to give 500 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: marketers looking to integrate native search into their strategy for 501 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: the first time. I mean, there are not many you 502 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: know who would do it for the first time, but yeah, 503 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: just in case. What see the key argument to do this, I. 504 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 2: Mean, the key argument is efficiency at scale to uh, 505 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,719 Speaker 2: you know, bend the curve on diminishing returns that you're 506 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 2: seeing from media portfolio. It's it's a pretty easy argument. 507 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 2: It's it's more usually what we've got to overcome is, 508 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: you know, hey, is there enough scale for me? And 509 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: you know, I've set up all my processes to kind 510 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: of work with one or two partners and here's a 511 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 2: third partner. But once they understand that, you know, we 512 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: provide services and it's really kind of a white glove 513 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 2: situation with great reporting and transparency into where your media 514 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: is running. You know, those are all things we've we've 515 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: worked really hard at the last few years to to 516 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 2: really upgrade. So yeah, I mean, it's it's more just 517 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: you know, being open and transparent about what your objectives 518 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 2: are and what you're trying to accomplish, and you know, 519 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: sharing your creative assets and your post click data back 520 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: with us because that's what we're gonna used to optimize 521 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: and you know, if you're used to dealing with a 522 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: walled garden platform that you you know, view as a potential, 523 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 2: you know, threat or competitor. Sometimes the policies that have 524 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: been adopted are not to have a really close partnership. 525 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: So we like to think of our advertisers forever partners 526 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: and we really approach them that way, so you know, 527 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 2: having the ability to understand it, you know, there is 528 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: a different way to do search when you're talking outside 529 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: the legacy engines. I think that's usually the first thing 530 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: we need to establish, you know, trust and safety about. 531 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: So again looking into the future, but what would be 532 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: your one bag prediction you have for the future of 533 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: the advertising and competition in the industry. What is your 534 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: prediction and maybe what would be your what would be 535 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: for you the perfect world, you know, looking twelve months ahead. 536 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 2: So I'll say my big prediction is that you're going 537 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 2: to be searching completely different and completely differently in twelve 538 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: months than you are right now, and you know that's 539 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: going to have effects on the entire digital landscape. So 540 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: I don't know that everybody's really understanding, you know, what's 541 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 2: possible and they're thinking that it's going to be you know, 542 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: appeals and delays, and you know, perhaps on some of 543 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: the you know, bigger ticket items there might be, but 544 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 2: on the stuff that's impactful, I think you're going to 545 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: see an impact to our search experience sooner than later, 546 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: and I think it's going to be meaningful. 547 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: So we thought it with some personal questions, and I 548 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: would like to run it up. Was one coming back 549 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: to this one more time. You've navigated massive shifts and 550 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: digital media, legal disputes, major leadership transitions. How do you 551 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: personally stay resilient and adaptable in such a dynamic industry. 552 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: I think many are in this similar situation obviously, but 553 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: with your specific you know, background and experience. I would 554 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: be really interesting to hear your personal strategy here. 555 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: I just find it so interesting. I just think that 556 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 2: everything about ad tech, I mean, you know, from getting 557 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: into it twenty years ago and it was a nascent business, 558 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 2: and you know, you go into this little corner of 559 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 2: the world that's done nothing but change over the last 560 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 2: twenty years, and you know, you either get excited about 561 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: that and you wake up every day and you say, look, 562 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to walk into something that I'm not expecting 563 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have to you know, work with a 564 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: team of people to try to figure that out. And 565 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: that either gets you super motivated or in some cases 566 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: super demotivated. I mean we you know, I see the 567 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 2: you know, engagement surveys and some people are like, hey, 568 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: you know, we had to switch too much, or you know, 569 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: we were doing one thing and then we had to do 570 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 2: another thing, and you realize that's not for everybody. Like this, 571 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 2: this industry is not for everybody, and you know, I 572 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: think it's really important that you have to have that 573 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: kind of outlook. And as a result, when you go 574 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: to you know, folks like places like Possible in that conference, 575 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 2: you see a lot of people have that attitude. Are 576 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 2: who are up you know, for for for things, and 577 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: they're resilient and they're curious and they're down to collaborate, 578 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 2: and you know that's you know, so it's like the 579 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: people in the industry are kind of fun because of that. 580 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: And you know, there's always a new idea and there's 581 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 2: a new thing that consumers doing, and there's a new 582 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: thing the advertiser's trying to figure out. And if you 583 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: can be a good partner to those folks and listen 584 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 2: and share some insights and you know you'll you'll get 585 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 2: a little further ahead. So I think that's what really 586 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: motivates me is is you know, the idea that this 587 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: has not been boring, and as somebody who's probably a 588 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 2: little bit ADHD, not boring is a really attractive quality 589 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 2: of this industry and it keeps me super motivated. So yeah, 590 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: I'm in. 591 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that statement. I 592 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: like this very much, and I think you could provide 593 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: a lot of insights, you know, not just about your 594 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: personal journey, but also about the business you're doing with 595 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: at marketplace where you spend a lot of your time 596 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: on policies and regulations and competition. And we will continue 597 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: that conversation at possible. I'm really looking forward to see 598 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: you and your whole team coming to Miami again and 599 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the conversation, Adam. Thanks a lot. I'm 600 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: looking forward to do this, you know, in a year's 601 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: time again before the next show and see how things 602 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: developed in the meantime with your help, with your support, 603 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: with your legal expertise. And thanks again for being on 604 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: our show. 605 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: Christian, Thank you, and thank you from the industry for 606 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: everything you've done, you know with Possible and really bringing 607 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: that level of event to the United States into Miami. 608 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: It was a complete success last year. I can't wait 609 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: to go back down this year. And you know see 610 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: the group of people you put together, So it's it's 611 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 2: a real service and it's important for industry that folks 612 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 2: like your are out there, you know, make these connections 613 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: and putting on this content. So I really appreciate the 614 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 2: time today and rolling forward to h to scene in Miami. 615 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Thanks Adam, thanks for tuning in everyone. Once again, I'm 616 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: your host, Christian Mohan. If you have a question or 617 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: suggestion to me, reach out, send me a d M 618 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. If you're courious to learn more about Possible, 619 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: sign up for our newsletter, or if you want to 620 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit Possible 621 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: event dot com. Possible Now is a co production of 622 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Martz and 623 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: Yasmin Melendez. Our supervising producer is Meritis Barnes. Special thanks 624 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: to Colleen Lawrence mac from our programming team. Our THEMEUZ 625 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: is composed by Anthony Ketticoli. For more podcasts from iHeart, 626 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 627 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.