WEBVTT - Biobots 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.440 Forward Thinking, Either and welcome to Forward Thinking, the podcast 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.479 that looks at the future and says something in you 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.880 it gitters like a moth. I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:24.920 bo and I'm Joe McCormick. So we've talked about robots 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.920 plenty of times on this podcast, sure, more than plenty 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.920 of times. Probably, right, we've talked about them too many times, 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.239 that's what you're getting at. Yes, yes, I'm saying that 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:36.680 we should never do another episode about robots ever again. 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.640 But you know, there's something else we've talked about a 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.639 few times that, or at least you two have talked 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.880 about a few times. I've only talked about the one 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.959 time just bugs. Well, to be fair, I wasn't really 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.120 talking about bugs that last time either. It was spiders. Well, 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.880 the future of insects is clearly the most important type 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:54.080 of future to talk about. But but I thought that 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.360 maybe you know, Joe. I know Joe hates robots because 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.320 when I when I bring up the subject of robots 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.680 near Joe, he gets this red look in his eye 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:04.120 and he says, program to destroy. I don't know what 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.360 that's all about. But anyway, I know he loves bugs, 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.000 and I thought maybe we could ease you back into 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:16.480 the robot discussion, Joe by talking about a combination of 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.039 bug and robot. I think that's a great idea, and 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.679 I've even got a sort of practical way to introduce 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.720 the discussion. Okay, So making robots is hard, right, Making 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.520 a good mobile robot to go around and do different 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.280 kinds of things, it's not easy. Sure, mechanics alone are 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:38.120 incredibly complex, and designing a a machine that can do 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.480 the sort of stuff that we do is not a 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.800 trivial task. Okay, now let's make the problem even harder. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:49.560 Let's make that robot really small. Now you've massively compounded 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.640 the problem. Yeah, yeah, because and anything that that's bulky 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.720 or heavy is going to be a lot, you know, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:02:00.840 more impossible to include. Yeah, like exactly, battery ease and 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.720 solar panels, all kinds of things like that, Any kind 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.799 of mechanism that creates movement, any sort of engine. Yeah, 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.600 even just the computer equipment sure has wit takes up space. Okay, 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.640 now let's make it even harder. Okay, let's make it smart. 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.040 Let's say that it needs to make some kind of 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.280 decisions based on its environment. So it's gonna need sensors 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.880 of some kind to gather data about where it is, 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.880 and it's going to need a pretty robust computing system 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.120 to be able to make decisions based on that data. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.120 So you're just now you're making an impossible task. Here. Wait, 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.239 I'm going to make it even more impossible. Okay, let's 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:44.120 say it's it's got to be small and smart, and 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.240 it's got to carry its own energy source for a 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.000 decent amount of time, you know, not something that's going 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.400 to run out of juice in ninety seconds. Okay, So 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.480 now you're talking about something that you can't just power externally, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.280 like uh, you know, we we've talked about nanobots a 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.480 little bit in the past. One of the common uh 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.040 solutions I see to nanobots, because this is a problem 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.160 when you get down to that size, how do you 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.480 power something like that is the idea of using an 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.919 external source like electromagnetism or ultrasonic frequencies. But you are 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.000 saying even actually just have wires on them and they 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.880 try not to show them in the picture. Yeah, they 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.120 really do. So you you were actually saying that this 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.320 would need to be a robot that would carry with 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.800 it its own ability to to you know, power itself, right, 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.640 whether that be say, solar panels or a battery or 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.120 whatever it is that's going to take up space and 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.520 make this all really difficult. But you know what, we've 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.600 already touched on it now that there's something in existence 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.240 that fits pretty much all of these criteria reasonably well. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.280 And that's an insect. It's small, it's smart. I mean, 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.600 it's not that smart, but it's it's relatively for its 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.920 sizee pretty it's smart in the robots since right, Yeah, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:56.880 compared to say a wind up toy that only will 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.000 go in one direction until it knocks into something. It's smart, yeah, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.960 and it carries its own energy. You just you don't 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:05.720 even have to plug it in. You just feed it 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.160 some apple slices or some some delicious you know, bodily 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.880 fluids whatever it likes to chow down on. A different 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.599 insects have different tastes. That's fair, And this is not 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.640 an idea original to us. In fact, the people way 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.880 up there, hidden in their scary science bunkers are going 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.080 exactly down this path, aren't they. Yeah, it's it's the 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:31.040 idea of marrying insects with robots, not literally, I mean 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:36.560 you're actually just you're incorporating robotic elements into a an insect. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:44.440 You're not actually having to get married cyborg. Yeah, insect boards. 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:49.680 So we're letting it get away from us, just like 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.440 a bug would. No, uh, this is this is entirely true. 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.000 There have been many, many projects to look into how 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.640 can we take advantage of the fact that the earth 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.480 is covered with lots and lots of insects and if 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.960 we could only bend them to our will, then we 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.600 would have an incredible tool for things like search and rescue. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:13.000 And that was part of what inspired the Defense Advanced 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:18.719 Research Projects Agency. And it's just dark because people want 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.880 to know what DARPA stands for. No, they don't. It's DARPA. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.479 When I hear DARPA, I think is that an acronym 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.440 um it's it's responsible for a lot of the technologies 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.400 that have filtered down from the military into our daily lives, 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.960 stuff that you know was originally part of the DARPA project, 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.320 like like the Internet is a great example. The Internet 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.800 was originally DARPA project. That's where ARPA net came from 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.359 and so uh you know it's it's also responsible for 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.000 some kind of scary science fictionee horror movie type of science, 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:56.800 including turning bugs into cyborgs. So they their program is 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.840 specifically called the Hybrid Insect micro Electro McCann Nickel Systems 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.040 or high MS, because I guess that's slightly better than 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.359 surgery on cockroaches in it right, it's him MS, now, okay, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.560 him MS. So the goal is to create cyberna in insects. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.840 And here's a quote from the DARPAST solicitation document. This 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.600 was written back in two thousand six when the project 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:27.120 was started. DARPAST seeks innovative proposals to develop technology to 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:33.160 create insect cyborgs, possibly enabled by intimately integrating microsystems within 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:40.719 insects during their early stages of metamorphoses. The healing person exactly. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:45.520 it continues. The healing processes from one metaphor metamorphic stage 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.479 to the next stage are expected to yield more reliable 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:53.120 bioelectro mechanical interface to interface to insects as compared to 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:58.880 adhesively bonded systems to adult insects. Once these platforms are integrated, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:03.520 various micro systems payloads can be mounted on the platforms 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:08.200 with the goal of controlling insect locomotion since local environment 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.120 and scavenge power. So what all this is saying basically 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.720 is that if you, if you put these little bits 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.080 into these insects when they're still growing, it will allow 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.920 us to integrate the technology more fully into them as 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.240 adults than it will be to just like be like 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.920 I pasted a computer on. Yeah, exactly, though there's plenty 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.400 of room for pasting computers on, as we will see 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.480 later in this very poject rightly, especially if you happen 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:39.920 to watch that fifteen minute video, What is the actual goal? 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:44.360 What do they want these insect robot hybrids to do? Right? 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.200 What was the chat? Alright? Here? Here's the also from 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.680 that solicitation. The final demonstration goal of the high MS 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.600 program is the delivery of an insect within five meters 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.600 of a specific target located a hundred meters away using 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.720 electronic remote control and or Global positioning system GPS. Although 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:08.360 flying insects are of great interests e g. Moths and dragonflies, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.960 hopping and swimming insects could also meet final demonstration goals. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.760 Why not crawling though? Well, I'm sure that that was 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.160 also in there just wasn't specifically mentioned. In conjunction with delivery, 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:25.200 the insect must remain stationary, either indefinitely or until otherwise instructed. 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.160 The insect cyborg must also be able to transmit data 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.440 from d D relevant sensors, yielding information about the local environment. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:38.360 The sensors can include gas sensors, microphone video, et cetera. 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.920 You can kind of get the sense based on the 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.480 language in the DARPA directive that they're thinking about surveillance. Yes, 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.040 I think that seems to be the main thing in 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.720 their minds is what we want to get bugs that 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.199 can go out and look at what's going on over 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.000 there a hundred meters away and and see what it is. Yeahah, yeah, 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.480 see what's up Now. That surveillance may be something you know, 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.160 clandestine like spying, or more likely something like search and rescue, 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.679 or you know, you're you're getting some reconnaissance in an 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.240 area that would be dangerous to send human beings into, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.320 or that you're not sure whether it's dangerous to send 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:16.760 human beings into. Rather than sending out red shirts, we 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.880 can send out bugs well, especially for something like like 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.920 an area, consider an area that's got radioactive contamination for example. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.080 You know, bugs are much more hardy at resisting that 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.280 than we humans are, So using a a bug in 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.760 order to check that kind of area makes perfect sense. 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.000 This makes a lot more sense than what I was 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:40.160 thinking they would use them for, which is delivering ammunition. Yeah, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:41.960 when you run out of bullets on the field, a 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.880 swarm of beetles come at you with cartridges. Each one 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.079 has one. They drop it into your magazine. Yeah, now 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.160 that that's probably further down the road. That's that's a 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:55.160 little it's a little ambitious for this first project. Actually, 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.440 it's pretty ambitious anyway. A lot of the stuff we've 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.120 talked about or that we've looked into as uh part 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:05.080 of the the research for this podcast, UM, we're still 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.760 in the relatively early stages of this kind of technology. 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.079 And meanwhile you've got other people working on different approaches. 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.240 But I'll talk about that towards the end of the podcast. 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.280 It's just interesting to me that now we're starting to 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.920 see the fruition of some of this work. UM. And 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.720 as of the recording of this podcast in early November 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.320 two thousand fourteen, there have been a couple of stories 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.679 that have come out about stuff like this, which is 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.360 kind of interesting. I mean, it's eight years after the 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.760 initial solicitation. Well, I think we should talk about a 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.880 few examples of the research in blending the insect with 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.920 the robotic. Obviously, we can't talk about all the research today, 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.000 there's too much, but I think we should pick a 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.080 few of the cool ones and zero in on those. 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.559 The first one I would like to talk about is beatles. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.920 So in this case, we're talking about the insect, not 0:10:54.920 --> 0:11:00.760 not the band beatle board fit cultural friends who are 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.439 extremely fixated upon this cultural refer. I may have watched 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.160 the YouTube video with the main credit sequence of that 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.520 show several times yesterday, and um, I get I wanted 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.880 to arrange some harmonies where we'd each sing a partner 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:21.280 a big bad beetle borgs. But yeah, that didn't come together. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.000 It just didn't happen. It was a cultural reference that 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.160 was lost on me, to be perfectly honest. Okay, okay, 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.160 let's talk about using beatles as these hybrid micro electroco 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:35.480 mechanical systems. The example would be flower beetles, the ones 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.200 I want to look at. That's flower with the W, 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.360 not with an O U. So this example is a 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.760 project that was part of the HIGHMMS directive. Uh and 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.800 it was a group of researchers from UC Berkeley who 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.880 created a system to steer the flight path of cyborg 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:57.600 flower beetles like Mecan Arena Torcata Hope, I said that, right, 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:04.920 Mecan Arena Torcata. Yeah, and uh co Tennis Texana. And 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.560 so flower beetles are a group of scare of beetles, 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.559 and they're thought to make good candidates for flying cyborgs 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.400 because of their size and sort of the robustness, like 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:18.200 they're thick and powerful a they're basically terrifying. Um so, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.520 so they can also carry a lot of weight exactly right, 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.600 so they can you can put a bunch of equipment 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.640 on them and they'll still be able to fly. Uh 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.360 google these things if you want. They are not spend le, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:34.520 especially in Torcado, the bigger one. They're pretty thick, pretty terrifying. Yeah. 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.599 So the researchers at Berkeley built an electronic system consisting 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:44.760 of quote, neural stimulators, muscular stimulators, a radio transceiver equipped 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:49.480 micro controller, and micro battery. So that's the first two things. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.839 There would be the means of stimulating the parts of 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.840 the Beetle to get it to do what you want. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.080 Then you've also got the transceiver that's uh to get 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.680 the command from the Beatle command center. And then you've 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.559 got the micro battery, which is to power the whole thing. 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.560 So that's kind of a lot of equipment to put 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.360 on one insect. But did it work? Um? Yeah, it did. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.920 The Beatles could fly. So they put the system together 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.400 and they mounted it on the Beatles pronotum, which if 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.240 you picture like a dog or a cat, that would 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.440 sort of be the back of the neck, top of 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:31.520 the head area they have a neck. It's not really 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:33.880 it's just sort of like the it's the same area though. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.760 It's sort of like like the human equivalent of the 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.000 name right, not not the front of the face, but 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.880 right back up right right front. Um, okay, So they 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.000 mount that right back up there, and then they used 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:49.400 remote radio signals to stimulate parts of the Beatle bodies 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.080 for various aspects of flight control, including the ability to 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:58.600 quote control flight initiation and cessation, modulate flight throttle and 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.360 direction with a relatively simple interface. Um. And those quotes 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.080 are from their paper in Frontiers and Integrative Neuroscience in 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.920 two thousand nine. Called remote radio control of insect flight. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.680 So their YouTube videos, I recommend looking it up and 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.800 watching them because it's pretty cool. They had reasonably good 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.160 success with using radio to control beatle flight patterns. That 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.040 was by flight patterns. Do you mean like basically telling 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.320 them to go left or right? Or how how fine 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.840 tuned finally tuned were they the flights? I haven't watched. 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.640 I couldn't speak from experience. I mean, it's hard to 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.480 tell how exactly what they're doing comput what the beatles doing, 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.400 but it is divided into like left and right signals, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.760 and I think also making the beatle fly or getting 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.000 it to stop. Yeah, we've seen a lot of videos 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.480 actually that do the left or right? Is that's the 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.440 essential command, right, you know, you don't have a a 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.240 go forward or stop in a lot of these. It's 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.840 more that, you know, they let the bug run and 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.400 then they determine which direction the bug will run right 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.040 and for the flight it really does seem directional, Like 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.160 I haven't seen any you know, like let's control pitch 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.920 and y'alls and all those flight things that pilots know about. 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.160 And one thing we should point out is that a 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.240 lot of this work isn't just to figure out how 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.800 to control insects, but also to learn more about how 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.240 insects fly and how they control their flight, and that 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.280 there's a biological element to this. It's not just computer 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.640 science or robotics or anything like that as well. Absolutely, yeah, 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:31.200 you have to have a really good understanding of how 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.560 the system works, and luckily insects are relatively simple. But 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.240 you know, flight really does put an extra kind of 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.200 wrinkle into this entire endeavor, which I think is why 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.320 insects like roaches have been the focus of a lot 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.960 of study. Also, it's really easy to get a hold 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.880 of them. There's a few running around probably at any 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.640 given time. Yeah, well, let's first give that a good 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.920 hard think and then yeah, now that now that we're 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.320 now that we're schemed out, it's time to really turn 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.400 up the creep factor for the rest of this conversation. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.320 Let's talk about robo roaches. Okay, Well, I want to 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.240 talk eventually about roach boards for search and rescue, or 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.560 what I call search and roach skewe. I saw that 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.440 in the notes. I wasn't gonna but before I get 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.720 to that, because that's a fairly recent development, I want 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:24.320 to talk about robo roach, the insects cybernetics that comes 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.440 straight into your home. Yeah, do you all know about this? Yeah? Yeah, 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.280 there was that whole Kickstarter right, yeah, well before I 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.880 think they existed before that, but the Kickstarter was was 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:39.400 a big source of controversy, but they made their funding. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.200 We should go back and tell the story. So there's 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:45.640 a little education tech company called Backyard Brains with the 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:54.120 tagline neuroscience for everyone. Yeah. There they say, their point 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.200 being that not everybody has access to a university with 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:03.440 like an incredibly robust neuroscience laboratory. That's a good point, 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.119 and that you know, people who want to learn things 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.199 might want to be able to do some experimentation and 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.080 uh and and kind of get you know, more involved 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.840 in the field even if they don't have that direct access. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.399 And so that's that's kind of the goal. Now, a 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.920 lot of that goal gets played out in uh, doing 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.439 some home surgery on bugs. Right. So this project that 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:33.240 they initiated is called robo roach, and it's a cybernetic 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:39.320 modification kit for cockroaches which allows users to perform surgery 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:44.840 on a cockroach and implant electrodes into the cockroaches antennae. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:50.040 They use electrical pulses to stimulate the neurons in those antennae. Now, 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.399 why would you want to stimulate the neurons of the 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.560 antennae and a cockroach Because that's how they that's how 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.520 they steer. That's exactly right. You can control cockroach movement 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.120 if you can control the nerve cells in the each 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.479 antenna A right, it's not it's not precisely how they steer, 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.760 but rather how they you know, they take an information 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.320 from their antenna and use that to decide when to turn, 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.480 because you know they'll they'll be brushing up against something 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.320 and go like, oh, I'm I'm hitting a wall on 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.480 my right, so I should veer a little bit more 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.640 to the left. If you were to install, say an 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:27.399 electrode that would stimulate such a response to say there's 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.760 a wall here, even if there isn't a wall there, 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.439 you can make the cockroach turn right. It's like electric reins. Yeah, 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:39.280 and it's disturbing to watch. Right. So in the robo 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.359 roach kit, these electrical impulses come from a four point 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.280 for Graham electronic backpack unit. They call it a backpack, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.119 and this backpack can be controlled through Bluetooth by an 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.879 app on your smartphone. Simply swipe your finger across the 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:59.280 cockroach illustration in the desired direction, and the cockroach will turn. 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.720 It'll sendol electrical charge to the right antenna or the 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.800 left antenna, and it'll it'll make it say, hey, go 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.600 the other way. They're not permanently, right, No. The creators 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.399 claimed that this usually only works for some number of 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.439 minutes at a time, after which the cockroach sort of 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.639 gets used to the false signals and ignores them, and 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:20.480 then you have to give it a rest and and 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.280 just not mess with it for a while before the 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.840 roach is ready to be mind controlled all over again. 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.440 Did you watch the fifteen minute instructional video of how 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.440 to do this? I watched some videos. I don't think 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.080 I watched one that was fifteen minutes. I did. I'm 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.119 going to give you a rundown on how this works. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.720 So I did watch some on how the surgery works. Yeah, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.480 you probably saw some of this then, Okay, So you 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.000 start off by you have to sedate the cockroach by 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.080 putting it into cold water, which lowers its temperature. And 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.320 it's a cold blooded animal, so once it's temperature is 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.640 at a certain level, you know, it's activity essentially stops. 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.800 It's still alive, it's just it's it's not tickling around, 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.959 and it's hypothetically not feeling anything. Yeah, it's hypothetically not 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:06.240 feeling anything anyway, but specifically not feeling at least not 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.200 pain as we would understand it um at any rate. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.040 Then you take us some some uh sand paper, and 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.320 you rub the top of the back of its head 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.840 so that you can make it a little bit rough. 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:21.960 You create like an abrasive surface so that you can 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.439 apply glue. Yep, superglue. Uh, super glue, they have a 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.520 specific brand. They recommend. You then attached the little circuit 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:35.720 board the backpack onto the superglue. Uh. Then you have 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:40.560 to do some some crazy uh alterations of the cockroach. 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.720 One of that is you have to poke a hole 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:47.560 in its outer shell. I guess you could say, yeah, 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.400 the carapace off to the little bit off to one side, 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.800 so you don't hit its esophagus because obviously you don't 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.159 want to do that. Uh. And then you put the 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.120 ground antenna about a millimeter in there, put some superglue 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:00.760 onto the end of that, and then shove it in 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.280 a little further so that way it holds itself tight. 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.960 Then after you know, knock out the cockroach a couple 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.800 more times because it's gonna wake up eventually. You didn't 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.320 have to clip off the end of an antenna about 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.480 down to about a quarter to an eighth of an inch, 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:21.480 insert the electrode, like the left electrode into the left antenna, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.480 and use some superglue so it holds inside there. Same 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:27.719 with the right antenna. And then you have to kind 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:29.719 of group all that together, so you get the wires 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.560 out of the way and you tamp that down and 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.840 then you glue that down as well, so that way 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.040 it doesn't get out there and snag on stuff as 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:42.960 the turns around. Yeah, so the uh, I just gave 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.320 you a very short description of what goes on in 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:50.640 this fifteen minute long video that I watched immediately after 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.840 I had just eaten lunch and I thought, well, that 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:58.720 was a mistake. And and and then they demonstrate the 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.119 app working and they have little roach running around on 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:03.000 the ground and then make it turn left and right 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.240 and it turns very quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it works. 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.800 It looks like it must have felt like it was 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.200 crashing into something. It's like, I know, over here, which 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:15.320 is kind of I mean, it's hard to read the 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.400 feelings of a cockroach. But a lot of people were 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.880 very upset by this, especially when they launched that Kickstarter 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.440 campaign that I mentioned at the top of this section. Yeah, 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.240 the gig starter campaign. It met its goal. It was 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.639 at ten thousand and it got funded up to twelve 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.120 thousand bucks, I think, but there was a lot of outcry. 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.879 I personally don't know what to think about it, because, 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.720 on one hand, I agree, just intuitively, it seems kind 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.760 of cruel and like a mad scientist. Yeah, they had 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.920 a lot of defenses, I guess I can get into 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.879 a minute. On the other hand, though, from my feelings, 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.560 if I see a cockroach in my house, I'm gonna 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.160 kill it. I'm gonna do everything I can to destroy 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.480 this creature. It's not the kind of critter that, when 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:58.879 you see it in your house, you think, oh, I 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:02.160 can cohabitate with And so I wonder if the same 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:04.120 is true of all these other people, Like if most 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.479 people making the charge like this is cruel cockroaches are 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:14.480 for stomping on and their lives quickly, don't prolong their suffering, right, Maybe, Yeah, 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.280 I'm not sure. I mean either way, Like I write, 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.360 I can see both sides of that. Yeah, so they 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:22.600 still sell the kid on their website. Of the people 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.480