1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Brian, and there's Jerry over there, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: and this is stuff you should know. On our tenth anniversary. 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: How about that. Happy anniversary, Chuck, Happy anniversary, Josh Sheppy anniversary, Jerry, 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Happy anniversary, Jerry Nice, Jerry Mouth happy anniversary here. Yeah, 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: ten years, Jerry said, ten long years? She did, didn't 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: she She did the longest because I think is what 9 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: she said. Do you realize if we go another ten 10 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: we've been doing it for twenty years, that I'll be 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: like approaching sixty years old. That seems weird. It's starting 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: to seem normal to me, being old, speeding toward our 13 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: ultimate deminds. I'm trying not to think about it like that. 14 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: I'm thinking more of like picking the drain of having 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: mellowed in age like herring and a can right or 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: um a pickle like a good pickle takes a minute, 17 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. To get just right? Sure, 18 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: we're at prime pickle age right now. Speaking of pickle, 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah you are pickled? Yeah? You feeling okay? We 20 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: talked earlier. Emily and I celebrated our tenth anniversary of 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: the show last night. A little too much congratulations, some 22 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: a little foggy today. Yeah, I can wait to do 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: this Facebook live. That should be interesting. Well, yeah, we're 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: gonna do a Facebook live. By the time this comes out, 25 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: you guys will have all missed it by a couple 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: of weeks. Yeah, and in true stuff, you should know 27 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: fashion we probably should have recorded something to be released 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: today on our anniversary. We didn't, but we're releasing it 29 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after we released the Uni Bomber today, 30 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: which I think was a good episode. Sure, so it 31 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: was a fine ten year anniversary. Yeah, okay, either way, 32 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: ten years, ten years it happened. It's so chuck. I 33 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: know what'll clearly the way, the cloudiness, the fogginess, um, 34 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: some smoke, bloody Mary, okay, smoke chuck from a fire. Yes, 35 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: And I have to say I admit to getting pumped 36 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: up for this one by listening to deaf Leppard. I 37 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: was hoping you'd mentioned def Leppard. I just did take 38 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: it away if you weren't, I was going to. Yeah. 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: The album's named Pyromania. The song is rock of ages, 40 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: but he does say, what is it? No serenade, no 41 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: fiber gade, just pyromania? Come on, yeah, what do you want? 42 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: What do you need? I want rock and Roll's right, man. 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: And then after that I was like, oh, what else 44 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: came from this air? So I ended up on like 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: Steve Perry and Journey and some other stuff. But I'm 46 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: pump Nonetheless, did you ever did you go to a 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: little uh? Yes, light e face a little bit. Yeah, 48 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: I think a little boys do. This article by Craig 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: Freud and Rich PhD uh as far as I know, 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: the only PhD to ever write at how Stuff Works. 51 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: He very wisely pointed out that a fascination of fire 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: is basically universal among kids. It's a good It's a 53 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: good way to get introduced to things you shouldn't do, 54 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: is doing them early on, at a young age, before 55 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: you can actually go to the store and buy gasoline 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: and start a real fire. You know. It just kind 57 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: of messing around with a little lighter fluid and a 58 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: lighter hairspray and a lighter Yeah, that's another one. Don't 59 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: do any of us, by the way, kids, But I'm 60 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: just saying, messing around with fire in small, basically harmless ways. 61 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: It's a pretty natural part of your development. Yeah, I mean, 62 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: I think, I think I remember very specifically one time 63 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: when I was playing in the woods. We grew up 64 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: a you know, a couple of acres in the woods, 65 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: the clean woods that your neighbor cleaned up and died in. No, no, no, 66 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: that that was my friend. Oh those are different woods. Yea. Um. 67 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: I remember very specifically when I was a kid, I 68 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: was probably like ten, we need the Waynes world, Like 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: I think I built. I built a thing. I don't 70 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: even know what it's called, but it's you take like 71 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: a coffee can and you dig into the side of 72 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: a hill and you stick the coffee can in there 73 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: and then put a little stovepipe in it, you know, 74 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: like a chimney, right, what do you mean? Like made 75 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: from what I can't remember what I used. Might have 76 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: been PBC or something, um, And then I don't know 77 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: if you're supposed to cook in it. It was some 78 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: sort of like legit camping thing. But I started a 79 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: fire in it and it got kind of big and 80 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: it was just smoking a lot, and I remember hearing 81 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: a siren and freaked out because I thought it was 82 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: coming for me, which it of course was not. No, 83 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: so you didn't burn down the woods. No, I didn't 84 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: burn down the woods. And on looking back, it was 85 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: probably a very small fire because it was in a 86 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: coffee can, yeah or not, you know, one of the 87 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: big coffee cans. But still I remember thinking that I 88 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: did something bad and they've gotten me, right, But then 89 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: you ran away, and you're like, oh, I got away 90 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: scot free. I should try something bigger next. No, but 91 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: I did run away and think like, oh boy, that 92 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: was a close one. Did you learn your lesson? Yeah? 93 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: I don't remember. I mean, you know, I told the 94 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: story about lighting coat hanger and rings on fire for 95 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: the evil knevil jumps and things like that, but that's all, 96 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, pretty run of the mill stuff. I don't, right, 97 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: So I agree it's fairly running the mill. Imaginative, but 98 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: still fairly running the mill. Right, What about you? I 99 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: feel like I remember a fire of some sort, but 100 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: the fact that I blocked it out makes me think 101 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: it may have been a big fire. But you didn't 102 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: try to like burn down a house being built or anything. No, no, no, 103 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: And I was never like I was, you know, kind 104 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: of fascinated with fire and everything, but you didn't dabbling Arson. 105 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: I just I feel like I feel like in time 106 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: one almost got away from us. And of course it 107 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: was the woods. Yeah, I mean that can happen. But 108 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: I think our fascination with fire, my fascination fire quickly 109 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: translated into using lighters to light cigarettes in the woods. Again, yeah, 110 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: mine did not so, but there's a fascination with fire 111 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: that people go through. According to our buddy Sigmu Freud, 112 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: if you go through a weirdo psycho sexual development, which 113 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: is to say, not exactly like what Freud thought you 114 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: should go through, you could conceivably come out the other 115 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: side hanging on to that fascination with fire, to where 116 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: it is an outlet for your stress, okay, your impulsivity. 117 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: It can become a central focus of your life, like 118 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: what you think about is fire. And if you check 119 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: these boxes and some other ones, you could conceivably be 120 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: considered a person with pyromania, which we have reached the 121 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: pinnacle of political correctness now because I refused to say pyromania, 122 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: it's a person with pyromania. It's entirely possible. There is 123 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: not a single person alive on planet Earth who is 124 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: a true person with pyromania, but we're still going to 125 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: say person with pyromania just in case. Yeah, I mean, 126 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: it's um after reading through this stuff and doing the research, 127 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: it's a little squirrely to pin down for sure, because well, 128 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. But the d s M 129 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: four five, they do have some criteria that goes as follows, 130 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: and with each one it really whittles down like just regular, Hey, 131 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm drunken and I'm starting a fire to uh to 132 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: I want to collect on this insurance. Yeah, so here 133 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: we go. Number one. They must have set fires deliberately 134 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: and purposefully more than once. So that's a lot of people. 135 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: That's pretty baseline. Yeah, and don't think they're talking about 136 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: fireplace fires. Uh, we'll get into that, Okay. Must be 137 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: tens or exhibit outward emotional behaviors before setting fires. It's excitement, 138 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: facial expressions, changes in voice, that's you may have like 139 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: you must have your tongue sticking out of the corner 140 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: of your mouth while you're lighting the fire. Uh. Must 141 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: be interested in, curious about, fascinated with, and or attracted 142 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: to fires. But but there's a big one that we 143 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: have to add here. Attracted to fire should not have 144 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: anything to do with sexuality. That is apparently an entirely 145 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: different disorder that is even rarer called pyrophilia, and that's 146 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: a sexual arousal disorder from fire. Interesting. Yeah, people are 147 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: so interesting, So we need to do a paraphilia episode 148 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: at least in necrophilia episode once. Yeah, there's like a 149 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: lot of Surprisingly, there's a decent amount of research on 150 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: that UM number four experience. It's pleasure, tension, relief, or 151 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: gratification after setting the fire or watching the fire, but 152 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: not sexual gratification. No, God help you, right, it's not 153 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: a person with pyrophilia in that case. Uh So, like, 154 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: if you start a fire in the woods and you 155 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: get an erection, it's in your pyrophiliac. If it goes born, 156 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: then you're a pyrophiliac. Other psychological disorders cannot account better 157 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: for the behavior. So in other words, if you have 158 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: a manic episode and you start a fire, it's due 159 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: to the manic episode and not pyromania. Which now we're 160 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: getting to the point where you start to wonder, like 161 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: is there such a thing as is true pyrophilia? Well, 162 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: especially with this last one, no other motivations for setting 163 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: the fire um like collecting insurance, um. Like burning down 164 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: a political rivals office. Yeah, you can't shout like anarchy, right, 165 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: or being just angry at somebody or burning a body, 166 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't count, uh, improving your living circumstance. So I 167 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: found something about that. One there was back in the 168 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: medieval times, not the one where you can go to today, 169 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: but like the real one, not the restaurant. Right, there 170 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: was like this this kind of thing that like if 171 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: you hired or basically kidnapped a medieval servant girl, there 172 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: was a good chance that she was going to burn 173 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: your house and your children down so she could go 174 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: back home. So that would be an example of that interesting, uh, 175 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: responding to delusions or hallucinations and then finally impaired judgment. 176 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: And that's what I was talking about, being intoxicated or 177 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: if you have dementia or something like that. Right, and 178 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: even chuck, from what I understand, even if you are 179 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: doing this, if you're starting fires just to start fires 180 00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: for fun, that would technically not qualify as pyromania. You 181 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: you would basically just be an arsonist. Like there's there's 182 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: actually so there's an umbrella term fire setting, which is 183 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: a behavior arson is a crime, Pyromania is a psychological diagnosis, 184 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: and they're all kind of wrapped up together, which is 185 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: why it makes getting things like how common is it? 186 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: It's really tough to kind of pinpoint that, right. So 187 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: Freud and Rich says, if you are a diagnostician and 188 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: you're presented with the person who sets a lot of fires, 189 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: and they're like, they don't drink, they don't even purchase 190 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: insurance because they consider it a form of gambling. They 191 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: don't have an erection, no erection to be found. Um. 192 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: They like, once you whittle all this stuff away, you'd 193 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, this person is making my 194 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: career right now, I found a genuine person with pyromania. 195 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: Very rare. Yeah, And through the years it's been really uh, 196 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of gone on a roller coaster ride as 197 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: far as uh. The definition of pyromania said, during the 198 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years span of legal and medical literature, 199 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: sometimes people were frequently diagnosed, sometimes they weren't at all. Uh, 200 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: And it doesn't seem to be any change in behaviors. Rather, 201 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: um changes in shifts in psychiatry and what we think 202 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: is diagnosable, right, and what how much personal accountability we 203 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: ascribe to mental illness. Right. So like with with there's 204 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: just this constant evolution and it's actually just kind of 205 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: a circle. It's not really evolving, it's it's when you 206 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: think about pyromania, UM, the question is is it an 207 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: on the result of an uncontrollable impulse or is it 208 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: the result of an impulse that wasn't properly controlled. So 209 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: is the person culpable or not? And over this one 210 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: study that you mentioned, over like a hundred and fifty years, 211 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: they saw it just bounce back and forth and back 212 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,119 Speaker 1: and forth, and it corresponded to the attitudes of society 213 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: and psychology of whether or not a person's responsibility for 214 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: their own actions. And in court also, if you were 215 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: holding court today, if you said, well, I plead not 216 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: guilty to that arson by reason of insanity, um, because 217 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: I have pyromania, that that you would just have automatically 218 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: shot yourself in the foot right there in the middle 219 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: of the courtroom. Because part of the criteria of pyromania 220 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: is that you're not responding to a delusion or any 221 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: kind of severe mental illness um. So by definition, you 222 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: would be lucid and know what you're doing. Is wrong, 223 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: or else you wouldn't be a person with pyromania. Yeah, 224 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know. This is complicated. It's very complicated. Should 225 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: we take a break. I think we should. All right, 226 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna entangle this a bit more and come back 227 00:13:49,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: and speak to um. How common this stuff is? So Chuck? Yes, 228 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: how common is that? Well, like we said, it's kind 229 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: of tough to say because it's all wrapped up statistically 230 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: in and arson statistics, and we've already determined this not 231 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: necessarily the same thing, right, And so consider this, if 232 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: you are an investigator, a psychiatrist, or a psychologist who's 233 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: like trying to figure out how many people with pyromania 234 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: there are, you have to go find people who are 235 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: in jail for arson. So, by definition, your population sample 236 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: is skewed one way. Right. What about people who may 237 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: have pyromania but have have said like, well, I'm not 238 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: going to jail, I can just start fires in my fireplace, 239 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: like you were asking, Oh, well, they would still qualify 240 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: as a person with pyromania. They're just not a criminal 241 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: arsonist because arson is a criminal act. They're smart enough 242 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: to not do this. Yeah, And there was Now that 243 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: I look back, there was no distinction that you start 244 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: a fire like on someone else's property that becomes dangerous. 245 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: You literally could start a fire in your own fireplace 246 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: and make an excited face and feel relieved afterward, not 247 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: get an erection, and uh, I mean that'd be a 248 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: great way to I mean, all things being equal, that's 249 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: not a bad not bad at all. You know, kind 250 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: of control control your own urge, especially considering that um 251 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: pyromania is a it's an impulse control disorder, so it's 252 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: in the same class as like pathological gambling addictions. If 253 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: you're starting fires in your fireplace and that's it, you 254 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: could be a lot worse off. Oh yeah, for sure. 255 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: There was one study though, psychiatrist named Nina Lindbergh in 256 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: Finland reviewed twenty years of um medical records and psychiatric 257 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: evaluations of six hundred arsonists, all men, and it's definitely 258 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: skewed more heavily towards men. Yeah, is that right? Overall? 259 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: Supposedly so, Freud thought it was a expression of misdeveloped 260 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: or yeah, misdeveloped male psycho sexual um urges. All right, 261 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: But they found that most of these arsonists, you know, 262 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: again they started chipping away, most of them had mental disorders. 263 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: Personality disorders. Sixty eight percent of the arsonists were drunk, 264 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: which is really interesting. I think it is so that 265 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: that whole thing about not being drunk and not being 266 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: uh considered to have pyromania. Some people reported their sense 267 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: of the like the arousal was um excited by drinking, 268 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: So how is that work? And they also were choking 269 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: themselves out with a belt, right, They're going for the 270 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: full Montya, the trifecta. Uh. Then they separated the group 271 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: into two things, criminal arsonists and pure arsonists. Um, these 272 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: are people, like you said, that had not committed a 273 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: crime of arson. Um. Well, but it's interesting. I thought 274 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: they started out as arsenists. Now, oh no other criminal activities. Okay, yeah, 275 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: all right, that makes sense. And then finally they applied 276 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: the old d s M at the time for criteria 277 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: and only twelve of these six hundred dudes met that 278 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: that criteria, although it says that nine of them admitted 279 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: to being drunk. So how did they fit that criteria? 280 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Like even confusing, even if you 281 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: look at the history of the d s M, the 282 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: d s M one, it starts out as being listed 283 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: as an obsessive compulsive disorder doesn't make any appearance at 284 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: all in the second edition, and by the third, fourth, 285 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: and fifth it's considered um an impulse control disorder. So 286 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: just from to you know, the current time, there have 287 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: been all these different bouncing back and forth about what 288 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: it is and they still have no idea. Well but 289 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: anyway you slice it, it looks like it's a very 290 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: small number of people. Yeah if, like you said, even 291 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: if it's a thing at all. Right, So there's another study, 292 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: um by these two researchers, Grant and Kim. They sound 293 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: like a folk duo. Two Yeah. Um. They got their 294 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: hands on i think twenty one or twenty seven, twenty 295 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: one subjects who had been clinically diagnosed with pyromania okay um, 296 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: and strangely, eleven were male, ten were female, which is 297 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: kind of surprising since this is supposedly excused. Eleven male, 298 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: ten female. Um, And they found some really interesting stuff. 299 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: They said that um MO to them, the onset began 300 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: an adolescence or early adulthood, and supposedly that's like the 301 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: risky time for a lot of impulse control disorders. UM 302 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: that they basically all reported feeling arousal or excitement not 303 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: necessarily aroused like you think, like sexual arousal. No, can't 304 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: be right. It's just got to be like you're you're 305 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: just wound up, and the only way to get unwound, 306 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: and you know it is to start that fire. And 307 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: then when you start that fire, you feel a tremendous 308 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: sense of relief, you may feel excited. And then from 309 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: what I understand, and this really goes with kleptomania, you 310 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: remember kleptomania or episode about that it was like that 311 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 1: you could not not steal. The only way to to 312 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: to turn the switch off in your brain was a steel. 313 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: In this case, the only way to turn the switch 314 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: off in your brain is to start a fire. But 315 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: you immediately regret it, Like, but I think of them 316 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: reported immediately having verer distress after starting a fire, so 317 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: you know it's wrong. And this is this is probably 318 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: the saddest thing about the whole thing. UM one third, 319 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: which is so seven out of twenty one, that's still 320 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: a significant number reported UM considering suicide as a means 321 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: of controlling their fire starting Like they felt that bad 322 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: about this that they wanted to just kill themselves so 323 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: they wouldn't start fires anymore. So there is like a 324 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: real there's a real cost to it, in addition to 325 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: the fact that this is a really dangerous impulse control 326 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: of the story. I mean, gambling is bad enough, but 327 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: what are you doing with gambling. You're ruining your life. 328 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: You're ruining your family's life, maybe your parents. It has 329 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: a finite amount of reach with with fire setting. It's 330 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: that's like you could kill any number of people. Yeah, 331 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: offend it interesting to that. Uh, they're kleptomania, like these 332 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: impulse control disorders. We talked about, you know, being a 333 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: little kid and stealing something. I think a lot of 334 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: kids go through playing around with fire, playing around with 335 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: stealing things. I guess gambling is sort of the only 336 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: one that's really not I don't know a lot of 337 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: ten year olds that are, you know, playing three card money. 338 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: I got in trouble for gambling in elementary, but we 339 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: were playing with skittles or whatever. And even at the time, 340 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, we're playing for skittles here. This 341 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: is ridiculous. This is an outrage giving my cards back. 342 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: But I do remember feeling bad when I stole something 343 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: once when I was a kid, and uh, but I 344 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: think that's the point of doing all that. Yeah, but 345 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: I don't Yeah, maybe so, but I don't remember feeling 346 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: bad about the fire. I just remember feeling like when 347 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: I heard that siren, like crap, I'm in trouble. Right. 348 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: So what you're learning by testing boundaries uh and and 349 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: following your impulses is oh, doing this makes me feel 350 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: really bad, or oh, doing this scares me to death 351 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: because I can get in big trouble for it. And 352 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: and you get that emotional limbic system learning, Um, yeah, 353 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,239 Speaker 1: SmackDown exactly, And that's how you really truly learned. Your 354 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: parents can tell you all day long, right, but you 355 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: unless you're like al Gore, you're not gonna listen to it. 356 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: You know, you're not gonna listen to your parents like that. 357 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: You gotta go test it out yourself, right, Or you're 358 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: budding sociopath and you don't feel bad, you're like, I 359 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: want to do this, and that limbic system doesn't smack 360 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: you down. It says, maybe you should. You don't like 361 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: that kid down the street, Maybe you should set par 362 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 1: to his house or steal his stuff or mistreat that animal. 363 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't do any of this stuff. Well, 364 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: that's true, but especially the animal thing. Yeah, but that's 365 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: like one of the early signs of you know that 366 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: is that is um of psychopathy. Psychopathy um, that is uh, 367 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: that is debated. What you're talking about is the McDonald triad. Yeah, 368 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: I mean I don't I don't think it always does. 369 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: But a lot of times when you look back at 370 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: the history of serial killers and things that they started 371 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: with weird animal things. But I think the problem is 372 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: that's like so sexy and so made the news. The 373 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: idea that if a kid um is a bedwetter, starts fires, 374 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: and mistreats animals, that was two out of three, Right, 375 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: You're close that you you can basically say, well, there's 376 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: a serial that kid's going to grow up to be 377 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: a serial killer, which is not the case. I think 378 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: it's it's um is that reductive or deductive? Where really 379 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: it's if you look at serial killers, they tend to 380 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: have they they check those three boxes. But just because 381 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: you check those three boxes doesn't mean you're going to 382 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 1: be a serial killer. No. But let's say this, if 383 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: you're a parent and your kid is doing all three 384 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: of those things, you know, just keep a little eye 385 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: on them. And eye on the right. Just give him 386 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: a chipmunk and see what they do. Test them out, 387 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: give a chipmunk in a match, and just lock them 388 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: in a room and see what happens. We should probably 389 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: take a break after that one. Yes, we'll be back 390 00:23:53,640 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: right after this. All right. So let's say it turns 391 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: out that you may be part of the one and 392 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: not in a good way where you're super rich. Yeah, 393 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: did we say that that? Like they think one percent 394 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: of Arsons is pyromaniac, not even one to four percent 395 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: of the population, not even so. But let's say you 396 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: are one of those rare people. Um, how would you 397 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: treat this impulse control disorder? So one thing I saw was, 398 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: as with any impulse control disorder, but particularly because this 399 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: is such a dangerous, threatening impulse control disorder, you basically 400 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: need to keep in touch with a psychiatric caregiver your 401 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: whole life. That there's remission, there's relapse, and that even 402 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: if you get your pyromania under control, that it can 403 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: pop up in other ways like gambling or addiction to 404 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs or whatever. So you really need to 405 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: have some sort of psychiatric presence in your life. It's 406 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: just part of your life. Sorry, that's just that. But 407 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: you can be treated. Sure, there is treatment for it. 408 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: It can be kept under control. Yeah, behavioral therapy. Of course. 409 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: They've had some success with s SR eyes selective serotonin 410 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: reuptake inhibitors that we've talked about a gazillion times on 411 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: the show, and with anti convulsants too, right, Yeah, this 412 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: was super interesting to me. This was in two thousand six. 413 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: There's a letter to the editor of the Journal of 414 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: Clinical Psychiatry, and there was a dude psychiatrist named John 415 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: Grant who said he had a case of a patient 416 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: who said, this person fits this whole the criteria of 417 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: a person in pyromania. And I examined this guy's brain 418 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: with uh what's called spect imaging. I've actually never heard 419 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: of that. No, it's like wonder machine plus or is 420 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: it minus? Maybe it could be light l I T 421 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: eh maybe it. It's like I had this machine in 422 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: here that I made. It's just like a calendar with 423 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: some tinfoil over it. Uh. Yeah, that is weird. After 424 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: ten years in and I've never heard of a spect 425 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: machine ten years to the day. S P. E. C T. 426 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: I think I just made it it. Uh. So he 427 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: found a region in the left interior I'm sorry, inferior 428 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: or frontal portion that had low blood flow. He uh, 429 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: put this guy through a few weeks of behavioral therapy 430 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: and this anti convulsant drug for twelve months. This guy 431 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: lost the urges or had a really big decrease in 432 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: the urge to set fires. Brought the guy back in, 433 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: put him in his tinfoil calendar machine, and there was 434 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: no problem in that front A portion of the left 435 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: inferior lobe right cleared it right up. Blood flow is fine, 436 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: which makes sense because the left inferior gyros, I believe 437 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: is one of the regions associated with impulse control. So 438 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: it makes sense. Sure. I mean, there's a there's a 439 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: whole school of thought out there that all psychiatric conditions, 440 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: all are are biological. We just don't know how to 441 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: how to catch them or point them out. And we 442 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: also don't know how most of like the drugs that 443 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: we use to treat them actually work. We just are like, 444 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: well it works, kind of you know, really interesting. So 445 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: I've got another one for you. I'm surprised this is 446 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: the only kind of good example of that, though. But 447 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: it's so hard to find the thing that gets me 448 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: is like, why why if it's co morbid with some 449 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 1: other kind of disorder, why is it not pyromania? Is? 450 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: I think that's what's that's what's confounding everything is. It's 451 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: like kayatry and psychology have said it's its own thing. 452 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if it is necessarily its own thing. Um, 453 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: but one one thing that has the one study found 454 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: and I couldn't find who conducted the study, but there 455 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: was a study that found basically, if you've ever seen 456 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: a volunteer firefighter, you've seen a person of pyromania. Yeah, 457 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: they say that that's a there's a strong association with Hey, 458 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: I'd like to go. And I've heard that with arsenists too. Yeah, 459 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: uh that they a lot of times are volunteer or 460 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: you know, regular firefighter. There was a very famous uh 461 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: fire captain named John Leonard or who in the eighties 462 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: in California Sparky. Basically he was a serial arsonist who 463 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: killed four people and it's not like it was by accident. 464 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: He would go start small fires out in like the 465 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: the um the hills. Don't they have hills in California 466 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: where they have wildfires. He would go start small ones 467 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: so that he could go start big fires and the 468 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: fire department would be distracted out in the hills fighting 469 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: the small ones when the big one went up. He 470 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: would set off fires in stores they had people in 471 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: it while they were open. So he wasn't doing the 472 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: thing where like I want to start a fire because 473 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: things are slow and I really want to fight this fire. 474 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: Like he was trying to hurt people from what from 475 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: what I understand, yes, um, and he was a fire 476 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: captain and arson investigator for years, so that is a thing. Uh. 477 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: And some people if you aren't a firefighter or just 478 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: too lazy to be a firefighter, but you still have pyromania, 479 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: you might you might still go to fires when you 480 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: when you see like a fire truck go by and 481 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: will go to the fire and watch. Um. And I 482 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: would guess if you're a firefighter, you probably see the 483 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: same person here there and they are like, what's up 484 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: with you? Man? That's a movie. But supposedly like you 485 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: can find people with pyromania on fire staff, which as 486 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: long as they're not starting the fires, God bless them. Yeah, 487 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: that's probably a pretty healthy way to get your your kicks. 488 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: It's to watch fires to go to fight fires. Yeah, 489 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: but people with pyromania also will pull fire alarms just 490 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: to see the fire trucks. It's not just a fascination 491 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: with fire. The whole thing things associated with fire, to lighters, 492 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: firefighting equipment, firefighters, and sometimes they will like as the 493 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: urge is building, they will start accumulating combustibles like little 494 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: pieces of fuel like paper, and oh, this will burn 495 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: really well. Oh, these lighters looks awesome. Ike, can't wait 496 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: to start the fire with and just keep it around 497 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: and then finally they can't hold it back anymore than wow, 498 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: but not burn? Right, no erections. That should be the 499 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: title of the show. I think it might be pyromania 500 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: colon no erections, exclamation point right doing exclamation point? Wow? 501 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: Do we just name it? Live with on a monopeia? Um? 502 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: What else? Do we have anything else in here? No? 503 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: That's the thing about this, there's not a lot to it. 504 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: I'm actually impressed that we got thirty minutes out of 505 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: it because it's so uncertain what pyromania is. Yeah. Actually, 506 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: here's the one statistical percentage. It said estimated and one 507 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: point one three percent of the population. Uh, yeah, that 508 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: they don't know the idea. Um, I've got one for you. Alright, 509 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: arsons in the US. Supposedly there's over sixty two thousand 510 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: arsons every year in the US because not a billion 511 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: dollars and losses every year and um about eight of 512 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: Arson's result and no arrests. And I also saw that 513 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: in Australia. Apparently they like to light their fires too. 514 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: There's a fire that's lit every hour of every day 515 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: in Australia. Yeah, what is going on down there? Uh? 516 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. This is hot. We're gonna find 517 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: out in September and we're gonna find out what. Maybe 518 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: we should do one on arson at some point because 519 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: Arson investigation is something I know nothing about and it's 520 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. Well, a lot of it's totally made up. 521 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: Arson investigation. What do you mean it's junk science? What like, Hey, 522 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,959 Speaker 1: it originated here, Yes, but I'm working on my intuition 523 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: here and I learned it from this guy who's working 524 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: on his intuition. And but we still put people to 525 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: death based on this junk science. Evans, we totally need 526 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: to do one on that. I wonder if the what 527 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: they say is like look for the thing that looks 528 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: the most melty and that's where I started start, there's 529 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: your problem? Interesting, Yeah, we'll do one on that I've 530 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: been wanting to for a while. Yeah, okay, all right, okay, deal, okay, Jerry, Okay, 531 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: Jerry didn't care. If you want to know more about pyromania, 532 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 1: you can type that word in the search bar how 533 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com them and it will bring up 534 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: a pretty great article by Freud and Rich the Doctor. 535 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: And since I said that, it's time for a listener mail, 536 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: no listener mail today on this one, because we just 537 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: want to take a moment to say thank you, a 538 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: moment of silence, okay, uh, to say legitimate, sincere thank 539 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: you for ten years of podcasting. None of us thought 540 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: this would take on the life that it's had. I 541 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: feel safe to say I agree with you, man, and 542 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: I looked at the old podcast rankings today and we're 543 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: right there at number six. What Yeah, just hanging too 544 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: bad for a ten year old brand, hanging tough like 545 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: the New Kids? Was it? The new Kids? Josh and 546 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry. Uh So we said it a lot. 547 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: We would not. There would be no us without you, guys, 548 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: and that is as true as true gets. So we 549 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: still count on you to spread the word, to prostlytize, 550 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: and to tell your friends to listen. Maybe put a 551 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: sandwich board on and ring about all up and down 552 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: the sidewalk. Couldn't hurt. Yeah, thank you everybody for getting 553 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: us to this point today. Like you were saying, Chuck, 554 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: we definitely would not be here without you guys, So 555 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: thank you for listening all these times. Amen, Amen, I 556 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: got nothing else. Well, if you want to get in 557 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: touch with us, you can tweet to us. I'm at 558 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: joshum Clark and s Y s K podcast on Twitter. 559 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: Chucks a movie crush on Twitter too. By the way, 560 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 1: Chuck's also all over Facebook at Facebook dot com, slash 561 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and slash Stuff you Should Know. 562 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: You can send us all an email to Stuff podcast, 563 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: to how Stuff Works dot com, and as always, join 564 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should 565 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: Know dot com for more on this and thousands of 566 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot com