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Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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Speaker 2: Since Francis Ford Coppola agreed to do a podcast with me,

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Speaker 2: I've been slightly overwhelmed. But good friends who know us,

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Speaker 2: both Wes Anderson, Fisher, Stevens, Greta Gerwik assured me. Actually, Ruthie,

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Speaker 2: the two of you are rather alike. Do they mean

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Speaker 2: being a chef is like being a director, or producing

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Speaker 2: a movie is like running a restaurant, or choosing the

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Speaker 2: grapes for your vineyard is like choosing the herbs for

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Speaker 2: your fish, or most of all, do they mean we

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Speaker 2: both have our family involved in everything we do. I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to take any of the above. Francis and I

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Speaker 2: are here together after a long lunch in the River

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Speaker 2: Cafe to talk about food and wine, movies and families,

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Speaker 2: menus and friends, and much much more.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for the lovely comments said.

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Speaker 2: You've made ruth So for lunch today, you had as

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Speaker 2: a starter.

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Speaker 1: Pundarella, which a Roman salad which you only have certain

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Speaker 1: times of year, and basically you Italians have a taste

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Speaker 1: for bitter. Puntorella is really a bitter salad, and so

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Speaker 1: it comes from a kind of winter chicoria plant which

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Speaker 1: is divided and cut up in a certain way and

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Speaker 1: served with olive oil and anchovy and capers, sometimes and

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Speaker 1: sometimes not. And this is the famous puntorella salad that

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Speaker 1: you get in a Roman restaurant.

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Speaker 2: It is a great way to start a meal, I

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Speaker 2: think if.

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Speaker 1: We didn't need it when we were kids, because we

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Speaker 1: ate food that was either Neapolitan from my mother's side

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Speaker 1: or lu Canese Bernalda, the region in the extreme south

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Speaker 1: of Italy, which is my mother's side. Well, it says

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Speaker 1: here puntorella, it says two puntarella heads. The vegetable is chicoria,

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Speaker 1: and it's a winter chechorea. Twelve salted anchovy phil cut

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Speaker 1: into small pieces, four tablespoons red wine vinegar, one gar

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Speaker 1: of co peeled and finally chopped, one drud some dried

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Speaker 1: red chili pepperonchina rosso and then six tablespoons of virgin

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Speaker 1: olive oil. And you prepare. You slice the buds into

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Speaker 1: these little thin stalks in your place in the water

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Speaker 1: a bowl of ice water to crisp, but they'll curl up.

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Speaker 1: Combine the anchovy's garlic and chili and covered with vinegar

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Speaker 1: leaf for fifteen minutes, had six table students of olive oil,

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Speaker 1: spin dried the puntarella segments and then putting a in

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Speaker 1: a bowl and spoon the stuff over it, and that's

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Speaker 1: your puntarella salad.

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Speaker 2: So you grew up in a house that served incredible food.

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Speaker 2: When a lot of Southern Italians.

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Speaker 1: Came father and grandfather from your.

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Speaker 2: Father and came to the United States. I grew up

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Speaker 2: in upstate New York, one hundred miles north of New

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Speaker 2: York City, and when we went out to an Italian restaurant,

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Speaker 2: we would have veal parmechan we would have the meatballs

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Speaker 2: and spaghetti. The food of the meatballs.

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Speaker 1: If you know what you're doing, they really make meatballs. Well.

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Speaker 1: Number one, you have to have three components. A meatball

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Speaker 1: is one third pork, one third veal, and one for

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Speaker 1: a thief, and with bread a lot of breadcrumbs.

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Speaker 2: But the scene and the Godfather, if we can talk

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Speaker 2: about that, I sadly I watched it again. I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know what, the way he said, you know and

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Speaker 2: then throwing this, and well, that's so nonchalant.

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Speaker 1: When I wrote that scene, I wrote it the way

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Speaker 1: I knew how to do. It, and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: take you first, you brown the sausage, and then there's

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Speaker 1: a fry. And Mario said, Gangsters don't say brown, Franksters

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Speaker 1: say fry. So we changed it to fry. Then he said,

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Speaker 1: and then the secret is true, that the little the

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Speaker 1: secret of a good meat sauce is a little bit

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Speaker 1: of sugar. You added like a you know, a half

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Speaker 1: a tablespoon of sugar to a meat sauce. So the

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Speaker 1: recipes were authentic, but we tried to give them a

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Speaker 1: gangster type of vocabulary. Although I must say that the

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Speaker 1: reason I'm convinced that The Godfather was successful because it

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Speaker 1: was the first gangster film that had a lot of

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Speaker 1: kids running around in the seats. Never were gangster pictures

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Speaker 1: though they didn't have kids. But of course an Italian

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Speaker 1: wedding was all the kids sliding around it.

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Speaker 2: So you grew up in a family that could Italian food,

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Speaker 2: but in New York and New York speaking Italian. That's

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Speaker 2: how we started. Did you know Italian?

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Speaker 1: No? I only heard some cursed. But my mother didn't

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Speaker 1: want us to be like Italians couldn't live in certain neighborhoods. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the Italians, you know, each immigrant group in America

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Speaker 1: was bullied by the one that came before, and the

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Speaker 1: one who came before the Italians were the Irish, and

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Speaker 1: the Irish used to beat up on Theians.

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Speaker 2: The policeman and the Godfather.

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Speaker 1: Right, the police. The police were all Irish and they

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Speaker 1: used to they used to pick. That's the way it works.

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Speaker 2: So you were restricted to this neighborhood. And did you

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Speaker 2: experience food other than Italian food or did you was

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Speaker 2: eating Hell, if you see.

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Speaker 1: The Godfather, you realized that I knew that Italians used

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Speaker 1: to get takeout Chinese food. Yeah, every street corner in

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Speaker 1: New York had a German delicatessen, a candy store what

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Speaker 1: we call the candy store, which was a soda fountain

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Speaker 1: where they sold coke which was five cents and they

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Speaker 1: would make it to put the syrup and it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be in a bottle, and model airplanes, and a German

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Speaker 1: delicatessen where you would buy cheesecake.

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Speaker 2: So there there would be a mix that would be

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Speaker 2: a German.

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Speaker 1: And always a Chinese restaurant. In the neighborhoods. There were

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Speaker 1: a lot of Polish people and Italians because they were

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Speaker 1: both Catholic, and there were a lot of Italian Polish

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Speaker 1: weddings because they were both Catholic. And I went to

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Speaker 1: a lot of Polish weddings, and I knew Polish food

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Speaker 1: was like they had Kebbasa whereas we had sazich. It

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Speaker 1: was America. It was a wonderful a mixture of cultures.

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Speaker 2: And we want to keep that. We want to keep

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Speaker 2: we want to keep that. And then should we talk

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Speaker 2: about polio?

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Speaker 1: If anything, you ask your question, I'd be.

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Speaker 2: Interested in the fact that as a child you had

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Speaker 2: polio and spent how long invent.

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Speaker 1: I spent the whole sixth grade, so a whole year

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Speaker 1: year and little more than a year. And in those

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Speaker 1: days polio, you know, of course it had also affected adults.

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Speaker 1: President Franklin Roosevelt had polio, but there was an epidemic

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Speaker 1: for children in nineteen forty nine. And I was a

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Speaker 1: cup Scout and I went on a cup Scout camp

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Speaker 1: out and it was raining, and the next morning I

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Speaker 1: had the symptoms. And you know, polio only affects you

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Speaker 1: one night. In other words, it's the night of the fever,

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Speaker 1: is the night you have it, and then you get

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Speaker 1: over it. But the damage is to your spinal cord,

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Speaker 1: and Napolio destroys the nerves selectively within the spinal cord,

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Speaker 1: so that I mean literally when I woke up, I

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Speaker 1: woke up in a ward with like eight hundred kids

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Speaker 1: piled up everywhere crying, a whole row of iron lungs

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Speaker 1: because the kids whose lungs were affected couldn't breathe, so

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Speaker 1: they had to be in a machine that breathe, and

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Speaker 1: they were crying for their parents. It was a nightmare.

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Speaker 1: And then I felt so sad for all these kids.

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Speaker 1: And then I got out of bed. I tried to

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Speaker 1: get out of bed. I just fell on the floor

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Speaker 1: and I realized I couldn't walk. And I was never

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Speaker 1: too scared at first. But I stayed there for about

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Speaker 1: a week more and then finally they took me home,

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Speaker 1: and my father was very sharp the method they took

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Speaker 1: me to this. I remember a French doctor who gave

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Speaker 1: me a big speech of like I was a soldier

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Speaker 1: and I was going to be a good soul. And

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Speaker 1: then he told me the prognosis, which was he says, well,

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Speaker 1: you'll be able to do everything a normal person could do,

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Speaker 1: but always in a wheelchair. And I was just I

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Speaker 1: hadn't realized that it was that serious. So I remember

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Speaker 1: being very emotional and we all went to have my

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Speaker 1: favorite We all went to have Chinese food and crying

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Speaker 1: in the Mugoogai pen and they took me home, my father,

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Speaker 1: and they pinned me in the bed so I couldn't move.

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Speaker 1: That was the way they thought you should treat it.

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Speaker 1: And it didn't make sense to my father, and he

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Speaker 1: heard about another method, which was the Sister Kenney method.

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Speaker 1: A Sister Kenny was an Australian nurse who had decided

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Speaker 1: that rather than make them the paralyzed victim immobilized so

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Speaker 1: they don't damage their muscle, and instead you did therapy.

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Speaker 1: He did the opposite. My father went and talked to

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Speaker 1: them and got the folio Infant how Paralysis Association to

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Speaker 1: pay for a Sister Kenny therapist came and this lady came.

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Speaker 1: Her name was Miss Wilson, wonderful lady, and she worked

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Speaker 1: on me, you know, and it was very gentle exercises,

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Speaker 1: but they were. And I was in this room, I

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Speaker 1: just watched television all that had puppets. I played with puppets.

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Speaker 2: The puppets is interesting because did that make you think

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Speaker 2: about film? Do you think that.

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Speaker 1: No, it made me think about having friends. I wanted.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be with the kids. I wanted. There

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Speaker 1: was a show on television in those days, sponsored by

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Speaker 1: Horn and Hart, do you remember the Automatic And it

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Speaker 1: was called the Children's Hour and it was all these

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Speaker 1: talented kids singing and dancing, and I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: be part of that.

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Speaker 2: When I grew up in the fifties, there was how

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Speaker 2: do you duty?

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Speaker 1: Well? How do you do? I can tell you how

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Speaker 1: do duty? Stories? Too.

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Speaker 2: My parents took me. I was actually they knew somebody

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Speaker 2: who worked on the how do you do? We were

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Speaker 2: in the audience. I was in the Peanuts Peanut again,

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Speaker 2: really lucky.

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Speaker 1: It's how do you do? Time? It's how they dude

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Speaker 1: the time Bob if I aroused here, because how they

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Speaker 1: do it's time to start the show. Well let's go.

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Speaker 2: God, I haven't satten that song for a love.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't look like that. One night I said

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Speaker 1: to my parents, look, I went like that and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do that with my left arm, you know. And

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Speaker 1: they were shocked. And then eventually I was able. I

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Speaker 1: never could run fast though after that, but I was

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Speaker 1: a good wrestler. I went to the same military school

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Speaker 1: as Donald Trump went to. I went to many high

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Speaker 1: schools and I went to New York Military Academy.

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Speaker 2: And when did you study film?

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Speaker 1: I was a theaterist student and I was very successful

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Speaker 1: in college. I directed a lot of plays and I

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Speaker 1: was slated to go to the Al Drama School. And

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Speaker 1: then one afternoon I saw a movie in a theater

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Speaker 1: by the great Rush director, sirge Eisenstein. And I saw

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Speaker 1: that and came out said, wow, I know, say anything

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Speaker 1: like that. I'm going to be a film director. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was October the Ten Days that shook the World.

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Speaker 1: And I went to the UCLA Film.

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Speaker 2: School and so California then, so that was in what

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Speaker 2: that would have been.

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Speaker 1: I was in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was the time when you went to

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Speaker 2: the LA Film School.

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Speaker 1: I went to UCLA.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And what was that like?

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Speaker 1: Oh it was I was a graduate student. I was

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Speaker 1: very poor. I ran away from military school, so my

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Speaker 1: father was not going to help me very much. He

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Speaker 1: was very angry because when I ran away from military school,

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Speaker 1: he had to pay anyway for that year and he

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Speaker 1: didn't never forgive me for that. So when I went

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Speaker 1: to UCLA, I had about a dollar twenty five a

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Speaker 1: day to live on, so I had twenty five cents

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Speaker 1: for breakfast, fifty cents for lunch, and fifty cents for dinner.

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Speaker 1: So I pretty much ate every night craft macaroni and

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Speaker 1: cheese dinners. And I just got fatter and fatter and

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Speaker 1: fatter and fatter, and I was very depressed. I had

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Speaker 1: no money, I had no car, I had no girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: I was pretty miserable, and there was a time when

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Speaker 1: I thought I would quit. And I had a wonderful

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Speaker 1: directing teacher, a woman who was the only woman director

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood during the thirties. Her name was Miss ars

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Speaker 1: the Dorothy Orsner. She was great, she was she was

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Speaker 1: so smart, and we we all everyone who studied with

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Speaker 1: Miss Arsener just and we call her miss ars there

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Speaker 1: because we respected her so much, and she was just

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Speaker 1: What happened was I was there one night and very

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Speaker 1: depressed that I was pretty much decided that I was

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Speaker 1: going to go back to New York and get a

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Speaker 1: job as a stage manager because I would get a

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Speaker 1: salary and I could. And she said, what are you

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Speaker 1: doing here? And I said, I'm miss Arsdre. I'm just miserable.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go back at the side. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to quit and I'm going to get a job as

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Speaker 1: a stage marcher. And she looked at me and she said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been around and I know you'll make it.

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Speaker 1: I know. And she left because she told me that,

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Speaker 1: and we looked up to her so much. She was

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Speaker 1: you look her up. She was a great woman. I

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Speaker 1: miss Ardas said, you'll make it. I've been around, and

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Speaker 1: I know. I stayed, and ultimately I stayed at UCLA

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Speaker 1: and I won this Goldwiner prize, which was a writing award,

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Speaker 1: and it was two thousand dollars and that was a

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Speaker 1: big turning point in my life.

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Speaker 2: Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for

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Speaker 2: the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our

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Speaker 2: subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each

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Speaker 2: oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with

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Speaker 2: each delivery. To bring some River Cafe flavor into your

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Speaker 2: with the gift, visit our website shop the Rivercafe dot

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00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 2: co dot uk to place your order.

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Speaker 1: Now, there were two schools that were competing. There was USC,

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Speaker 1: which was considered more of a technically oriented school, and

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Speaker 1: there was more UCLA, which was more sort of artsy

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Speaker 1: FARTSI kind of directors who wanted to be the new

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Speaker 1: Felini and the new this and that. So there was

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Speaker 1: a competition between USC and UCLA, and I emerged as

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Speaker 1: a star of UCLA because I won the gold Wooden

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Speaker 1: Prize And then I made as a thesis feature film,

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Speaker 1: which was unheard of a commercial film as my thesis

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Speaker 1: film was a movie in New York CLD You're a

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Speaker 1: Big Boy Now. And I got married. I had two kids,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I always thought that being married with

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Speaker 1: kids was good for me because instead of you know,

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Speaker 1: going out having fund screwing around, I was concerned with

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Speaker 1: supporting my family. I had a wife and two kids.

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Speaker 1: I loved my kids. Geo was my first John Carlo

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Speaker 1: and Sofia in Roman. Sofia was born during the Godfile.

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Speaker 1: So what happened was I got a job to direct

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Speaker 1: Fred Astaire at a big musical called Finian's Rainbow. And

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Speaker 1: as I was directing this, I was a young guy

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Speaker 1: with a crew of adults all wearing suits and ties.

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Speaker 1: I noticed there was a skinny kid watching what was

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Speaker 1: going on. And I went over to him and I said,

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Speaker 1: I ain't I what you're doing. What are you looking at?

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Speaker 1: He said nothing much. I said, well, you know what

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Speaker 1: are you doing here? He said, well, I'm a USC

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Speaker 1: student and I won a scholarship to observe. I came

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Speaker 1: over to look at the Warner Brothers Adomation department. But

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Speaker 1: I heard there was a UCLA student directing this movie,

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Speaker 1: so I thought i'd watch. I said, oh great, what's

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Speaker 1: your name? He said, George Lucas And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you want to come every day and watch the film?

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Speaker 1: He said sure. I said, well I'm one condition you can't.

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Speaker 1: He says, what's that. I said, well you got to

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Speaker 1: come up with a brilliant idea every day. And he said,

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Speaker 1: I'll do that, and he did. And so I met

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Speaker 1: this wonderful kid, who of course.

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Speaker 2: Became a well that.

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Speaker 1: Would be Finean's rainbow. So and I had a little boy,

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Speaker 1: like about two. So that must have been about nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty five at the worst. And that made a marriage

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Speaker 1: between UCLA because then not only did I meet George,

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Speaker 1: but I met all of the USC guys, and they

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Speaker 1: met all the UCLA guys. So that we began. Then

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Speaker 1: we went off and made a film. I said, if

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Speaker 1: you come off and help me with this film, I'll

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Speaker 1: sponsor your first film. And we made a film called

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Speaker 1: The Rain Peaceeople where we actually rode across the country

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Speaker 1: at a bus at editing. And then he made a

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Speaker 1: film called THHX The thirty eight and we founded that's

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Speaker 1: when it became American Zorchra. We founded a company and

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Speaker 1: we decided to put it in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: My San Francisco away from Los Angeles. Y studio is yeah.

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Speaker 1: But by being in San Francisco with no money, it

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Speaker 1: determined that we, as we always knew, picture and sound

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Speaker 1: equally contribute to a movie being being good, but sound

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Speaker 1: is much cheaper. So we made a big investment in sound.

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Speaker 1: And that really changed because there was a company in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco called Doby that was very that was very

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Speaker 1: nice and liked us. It always helped us, but they

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Speaker 1: benefited because they saw everything we were doing and we

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Speaker 1: changed movies both in terms of the sound. And then

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Speaker 1: when George made Star Wars, he just I died that

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Speaker 1: if we could shoot in a digital format, they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to convert from film to digital for effects, back

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Speaker 1: to film. So we really, because of our poverty, we

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Speaker 1: changed the face of cinema around the world through Dolby.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember have memories of food at that time?

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Speaker 2: Why Lucas? Did you like good food?

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Speaker 1: I was a good army cook. I could cook for

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Speaker 1: fifty people, and I always used to cook for everyone.

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Speaker 2: But I have youone on the set.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can cook dinner for fifty sixty people with

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Speaker 1: no trouble at all. I have done it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I once went to the I went to teacher at Cuba.

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Speaker 1: I was invited along with Terry Mallick and some people

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Speaker 1: to go to Cuba and go at the Cuban Film School.

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Speaker 1: And I said to them, I said, I like to

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Speaker 1: cook for the students. And they said, well, what do

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Speaker 1: you want to cook? I said, well, I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: Do you have tomatoes? They said sure? I said, do

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Speaker 1: you have a basil whatever it was? Golden said, below,

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Speaker 1: you know they had basil. I said, do you have

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Speaker 1: any pasta? No, no, we don't have pasta. Well do

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Speaker 1: you have potato? You have potatoes? You see, I had flowers.

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Speaker 1: So I made yuki and they said, but you can't

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Speaker 1: just make it for the students. You got. We're a

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Speaker 1: socialist country, you have to make it for everybody. So

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Speaker 1: I said, well, how many people would have to eat?

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Speaker 1: They said five hundred, So we cooked yuki for five

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Speaker 1: hundred people. But we did it. We did it, and

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Speaker 1: it was great.

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Speaker 2: They they had the right potatoes because for yi you

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Speaker 2: need those very dry.

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Speaker 1: Got whatever potatoes they gave me. There was no selection

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Speaker 1: in Cuba. And then the next year I went. They said,

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Speaker 1: are you going to cook again? They said yes, This

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Speaker 1: time I brought pasta. We had a pasta coming. So

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Speaker 1: I cooked that Cuba maybe three four times.

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Speaker 2: With all of you in Spielberg and Lucas and who

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Speaker 2: was part of that other? Did you all have meals together?

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Speaker 2: Was eating out? What did you?

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Speaker 1: All of them? Yes? But of all of them, the

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Speaker 1: only one who were my kind of Italian was Marty Is.

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Speaker 1: It was his parent, his mother. He wrote a very

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Speaker 1: good cookbook which you can still get and it's hard, missus.

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Speaker 1: Catherine Scorsese.

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Speaker 2: One thing for moving ahead to the Godfather is that

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Speaker 2: we all know the scene. Of course, we know the

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Speaker 2: scenes we were just talking about of cooking the sauce,

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Speaker 2: so the getting the cannoli but for me, it's about

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Speaker 2: citrus as well. Yeah, because you know the two scenes

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Speaker 2: that I thought and I that was an accident.

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Speaker 1: I always had someone bring an orange, but the orange

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Speaker 1: became going.

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Speaker 2: To talk about the two scenes, one of them which

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Speaker 2: was in the market when he's choosing the oranges. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then he then he's shot right when Brandon is

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Speaker 2: That was right across the that's the premonition that he's

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Speaker 2: when he's going to be He realized he's going to

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Speaker 2: be killed.

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Speaker 1: There was this orange motif that was not true. It's

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Speaker 1: just that I had always said, you know, we'll bring

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Speaker 1: an orange as a gift from Florida or something nice.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that it became a symbol. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what.

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Speaker 2: About the scene at the very end when he's playing

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Speaker 2: with his child.

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Speaker 1: That scene they cut out of the script because they felt.

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Speaker 2: We didn't describe that scene. That's the scene.

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Speaker 1: Why, well, let me tell you the circumstance of it.

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Speaker 1: That that scene was cut out of the script because

390
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Speaker 1: they figured if we just cut to the graveyard, you'll

391
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Speaker 1: know he died. So what did you have to see

392
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Speaker 1: him die? But I wanted to shoot him dying in

393
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Speaker 1: the tomato patch. So when I was shooting the wedding,

394
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Speaker 1: I had got this little tomato patch developed. In fact,

395
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Speaker 1: we had to bring the tomatoes fly them in a

396
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Speaker 1: great expense from Chicago because we had no tomatoes. And

397
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Speaker 1: during lunch, I was over there trying to get the

398
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Speaker 1: shot of him with his grandson and the minder that

399
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Speaker 1: they had on me. He said, you can't do this,

400
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Speaker 1: the scene's been cut. I said, well, let me just

401
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Speaker 1: get I can get one shot and I'm going to

402
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Speaker 1: go to you know, you have to go to lunch,

403
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Speaker 1: I said, And I did the one shot, and then

404
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: I went to lunch and the kid was We didn't

405
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Speaker 1: we didn't want to do it. So Brandon said, let

406
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Speaker 1: me do something I do for my grandkids, and he

407
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: cut he on his own. I didn't know what he

408
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Speaker 1: was going to do.

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Speaker 2: It is true.

410
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Speaker 1: He cut the orange and he did it, and he

411
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 1: did it like a monster, and the kid cried. So

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Speaker 1: it became memorable and it got put in the picture.

413
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Speaker 1: And then I shot the rest of it of him

414
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Speaker 1: running around stuff. So that was a scene that they

415
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Speaker 1: had tried to cut out that because of Brando's ingenuity,

416
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Speaker 1: it became ended.

417
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Speaker 2: In running around and playing a game and the child

418
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Speaker 2: actually thinks that him falling down and dying is part

419
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Speaker 2: of the gang, isn't he You know, he doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It was the movie. It's just it's luck that that

421
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Speaker 1: Brando did that and the kid, because they were there

422
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Speaker 1: were standing there wanting me to cut. When Brando did

423
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Speaker 1: his first day, everyone saw his first day and they said,

424
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: all this stuff is too dark and he's mumbling and

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Speaker 1: we hate it. One of the people who was sort

426
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Speaker 1: of on my side, you know it, said to me,

427
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Speaker 1: you know, France, they're going to fire you this weekend.

428
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Speaker 1: Because they never fire a director in the middle of

429
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Speaker 1: the week. They always fire the director on the weekend

430
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Speaker 1: so the new director has time to come in and

431
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: get everything organized. So he said, they're going to fire

432
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Speaker 1: you this weekend. So knowing that I just that day

433
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Speaker 1: that I heard that, I fired the fifteen people that

434
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Speaker 1: were in on the cabal that were going to fire me,

435
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Speaker 1: and no one knew that I even had the authority

436
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: to do that. I just did it. And because I

437
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: wanted to reshoot the shot of Brando that they didn't like,

438
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: and when I said I want to do it, they said, no,

439
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: don't do it. That's when he said, they're going to

440
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: fire you. So I fired everyone. I went up and

441
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: I reshot the ste It was the first scene where

442
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: he comes in and sits and has the meeting with

443
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 1: Solotso in the dark in the Hollive oil factory. So

444
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: they thought it was too dark and Brando was mumbley,

445
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: so I reshot it. So then everyone had to wait

446
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: and see in the weekend, and everyone was saying, can

447
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: he do that? You know, maybe he can't, and is

448
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: he fired? I didn't know. I thought they were going

449
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: to fire me anyway, so but they waited and then

450
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: they decided that the reshoot was much better, and so

451
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: they said they worked and fire me. And the head

452
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: of the company brought me to the Palm Steakhouse and

453
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: bought me and my father dinner and said that, you know,

454
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: they were going to back stay with me.

455
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: I'm always interested in meetings that take place in restaurants,

456
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: So they took you to a restaurant.

457
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: They took me to the Palm Restaurant, which I think

458
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: he Charlie Bluto a own part of and my father too,

459
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: and they said they weren't going to fire me. But

460
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is that in the movie.

461
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: It's the first scene. In other words, they didn't know

462
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: what they were talking about. The Godfather was dark, that

463
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: was its style. Brando in an oscar for The Godfather,

464
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: and you know, he always mumbled. He told me he

465
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 1: mumbled deliberately because it was easier to add to what

466
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: lines later he wanted to his mouth didn't live.

467
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: Michael Kaine said to me that almost every movie that

468
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: was offered to him, or that he thought of from

469
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 2: being offered a pardon, was done in a restaurant. So

470
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in restaurants and work and restaurants, how

471
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: people go to restaurants, and how they use restaurants. People

472
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: do I always say very private things in a very

473
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: public space, So fire people in a restaurant.

474
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: There were a bunch of famous restaurants, show business restaurants.

475
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: Sorry sorry. One of the famous Elaine's in New York.

476
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: Elaine was a lady much like you. If you did

477
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: you know Elaine.

478
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: No, I never met her.

479
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: She conducted a sort of salon. Yeah, it's more like

480
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: a so long.

481
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 2: But in Hollywood would people.

482
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: I used to write with Mario Puzzo, and I would

483
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: go with him because he loved the gamble I would

484
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: go with him to the pepper Mill casino in Reno

485
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: and we would work in the pepper Mill because in

486
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: a gambling casino you can order you know, ham and

487
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: eggs at three in the morning or anything else and

488
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: then you can go. It's twenty four hours a day.

489
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: And all the work I always been with Mario was

490
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: always in a gambling casino in.

491
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: Reno, feeding people. You were telling me at lunch that

492
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: you wanted to tell me the story about having to

493
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: give the crew lunch, and if you don't.

494
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: We always gave. We wanted to give. I tried to

495
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: give the crew because you know, a crew worked so

496
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: hard that their only entertainment, their only amusement is at lunch.

497
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 2: You know, their mutan the people who are not actors.

498
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: Well everyone including the actors. I mean, they have no loather,

499
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: working sometimes twelve hours a day. So I had lunches

500
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: and I would have two kinds of wine, which now

501
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: was illegal, by the way, but I would. You can't

502
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: not now you can't in France they do. I had

503
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: two kinds of wine I had. I was famous for

504
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: wonderful lunches and on Friday I would always have a

505
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: special treat because it was a final thank you. So

506
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: I doubled the meal budget so that they could do

507
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: something really wonderful on Fridays as a thank you, because

508
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: that's the only entertainment the crew gets.

509
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what you said that you were punished if

510
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: you were late for giving them lunch.

511
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Oh that was there's not the thing called the meal penalty.

512
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: When you're on a movie set and it's time to

513
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: say lunch has to be at one o'clock. It all

514
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: depends on what time the day starts one o'clock. If

515
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: it's one fifteen, everyone gets one hundred dollars for the

516
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. And then those are penalties and where it

517
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: comes from. In the twenties, there was a Hungarian director

518
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,239
Speaker 1: named Michael. He was a gentleman, so he would have

519
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: them work and they'd bring a table and serve him

520
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: at the four course dinner while everyone else was working

521
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: was eating nothing. So because of that, the union put

522
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: in a meal penalty.

523
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: And what about the famous canteens. Meilbrooks always talked about

524
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: seeing carry granting was.

525
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: In a lot of the studios had, Like I remember

526
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Fox had a big area where they would have lunch.

527
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: That's where I saw when me and Farrell in a

528
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: tough cut off all long hair and went in there

529
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: angry about something. But I don't know which canteen he saw.

530
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: Carry grant was extraordinary.

531
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: The stars of the of the early days. Whether it

532
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: was well, I know that.

533
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: Well, I know one thing. It's true that Jack Warner

534
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: used to have a private dining room and he would

535
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: require that the directors and stuff come into his private

536
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: dining room. And that's where and then he next to it,

537
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: he had a room with all his awards, and you

538
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: had to go in other words, you had to go.

539
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: You were expected to be in there at least three

540
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: times a week. That's where I first had Matsa. And

541
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: I liked Matza a lot, so I was always happy

542
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: to go in Matsa. But I brought with me once

543
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: into the dining room Patula Clark, and I didn't realize

544
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: that there was no women had ever been in the

545
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: private dining room Jack Warner.

546
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: The River Cafe Winter said lunch is now running from

547
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking on www. Rivercafe dot

548
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: co dot uk or give us a call. We have

549
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: too some there people who met six hours ago, four

550
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: hours ago. We have both lost our life partners. You're

551
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: your wife, Eleanor.

552
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: And about the loss of a child.

553
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: Tell me what we both have shared that.

554
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: You lost your son. What happened to me, and maybe

555
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: it didn't appen to you is but to me it

556
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: was thirty years before the first thing I thought of

557
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: was what had happened? And then finally, after thirty years,

558
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: if you can imagine, I woke up one morning and

559
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't the first thing I thought of, and I

560
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: realized that it was the beginning of getting past it.

561
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: So that for me it was a thirty year sentence.

562
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: When was that thirty years? Well it was thirty years

563
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: How many years ago?

564
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: Well, I mean he died and his daughter is thirty

565
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: four years old, so she that was New Year's on

566
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: the year he died, so thirty four years ago, so

567
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: it was four year years ago. Every morning, the first

568
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: thing I thought of was, oh did that happen? And

569
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: it was that was like terrible? Did that happen for you?

570
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: How long? Every morning did you? Was it the first

571
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: thing you thought of?

572
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: Well, for me it was thirteen years ago, and.

573
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: You still wake up and it's the first thing.

574
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if it would be the first thing

575
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: I woke up with. But I certainly would be buying

576
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: an orange in the market and think of it. Well,

577
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: I'd walk into his room and think of it. I'd

578
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: see something that reminded me. Here here music. So for me, it.

579
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: It takes Yeah, well my sentence was the first thing.

580
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: Oh did it happen?

581
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: How are you feeling that about your wife? Now?

582
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: No, No, my wife is funny because I just just

583
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: all the time I think, you know, there's someone I

584
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: got to tell something, and I got to tell her that.

585
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: But no, I don't have to tell her that because

586
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: she's so It's different because your son, you don't expect

587
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: to get that news. Whereas she I knew I was

588
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: with her when she died. I was holding her hand,

589
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: and I knew she wanted to go because she was

590
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: so so in such discomfort and pain. So I mean

591
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: it was it was the whole family was there holding her,

592
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: and we did it deliberately. She did for her, for her,

593
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: But a child, you you don't expect that news. It

594
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: was just a horrible news. I couldn't believe it when

595
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: they told me.

596
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: And you were making a film.

597
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: I started to make a film. Yeah, I was I did,

598
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: but I continued. They said, you don't have to will abandon.

599
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: I said, no, he'd want me to finish it. But

600
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: that was what I noticed, is that it was like

601
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 1: a sentence, a thirty year sentence of that of being harper.

602
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: I woke up every morning. Yeah, but there's that beautiful Eschylus,

603
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: how it drops on you, drop by drop until by

604
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: the awful grace of God, you're given you're given a break,

605
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, Eschylus. Can you imagine Eschlus? How long ago

606
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: that is?

607
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: Death of a child.

608
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: It's not something Fortunately, there aren't many people today who've

609
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: experienced that. It's it's it's rare.

610
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: I remember thinking that that would be how I was defined,

611
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: that I would be the woman whose child had died.

612
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: You know, it used to be years ago, when when

613
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: families were bigger, you know, people would have seven, eight kids.

614
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: They always lost one or two. It was part of

615
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: having a lot of kids. But that's it's rare now

616
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: that they're not. Yeah, those people who lose their child,

617
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: thank God, is a small minority. It's a terrible group

618
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: to be part of.

619
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 2: And if we need comfort, we find comfort. I find

620
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: right now. And we talked about this for a moment

621
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: as well, about when my husband died, that I find

622
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: comfort in being active. My comfort is to keep working

623
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: and being here. You know that you have well other people.

624
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: I have a friend whose brother died in an accident

625
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: in French and her mother went to bed for six months,

626
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 2: and that's whatever it is. People find their own way,

627
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: But for me, it's being active and for comfort. We

628
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: find comfort in different ways. And I suppose my last

629
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 2: question to you today, though I think we should do

630
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 2: another one of this because there's so much more to

631
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: talk about. Is if you had to find comfort in food,

632
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: if there was something that you could eat before you

633
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 2: die that you would find that it would give you comfort.

634
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 2: Would there be a food that you would define as comforting?

635
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: What would that be?

636
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: Halva?

637
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: Halva? Yeah, that I would not have expected.

638
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: Why I love it? I always loved what I was

639
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: a little.

640
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: Can you describe what halva is?

641
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: Halva is Middle Eastern peoples of different origin. It's made

642
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: of ground sesame seeds and egg albumen and sugar probably honey.

643
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: I think it has honey in it.

644
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: Well Eastern foods as I love Middle Eastern.

645
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: I do too. You're going to make a movie. What

646
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 2: is it about?

647
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: It's about a time in the thirties when marriage and

648
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: marriage ability was in very test related. In other words,

649
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 1: you had to be in your crowd or your set

650
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: in order to consider marriage. And then people would marry,

651
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: and then they would get the worst and marry upwards.

652
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: And the marriage was the marriage was sort.

653
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: Of for gain and you're gonna film it here.

654
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: Well, no, it's I'm gonna base it here and then

655
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: do it all over. They go to all the they

656
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: go to Anna, they go to bay Ritz, they go

657
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: to all the places rich people go to.

658
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: Well, we want we want you here, We want you

659
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 2: to be here to the future.

660
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership

661
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: with Montclair