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George nor with you. 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: My Kay Jenkins holds degrees from Amherst College, Columbia's Graduate 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: School of Journalism in Princeton, where he received a PhD 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: in English. After experiencing a very severe health scare on 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: his own, he set out to discover the truth about 25 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: toxic chemicals, are alarming levels of exposure, and our government's 26 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: failure to regulate them effectively. Now he discovered that he 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: spent his life marinating and toxic stuff, and from his 28 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: wall to wall carpet, into his dryer sheets to his 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: drinking water. Here he is on coast to coast. His 30 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: latest work is called Food Fight. McKay. I remember food 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: fights in school, but not like this. No, no, this 32 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: is This is a food fight at a very large scale. U. 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: It's funny that you you mentioned. The book about the 34 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: toxic chemicals was called Contamination, which was about the toxic 35 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: petrochemicals that get into all our consumer products, from our 36 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: drinking water bottles to our cosmetics, to everything that we 37 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: use to clean our bodies and our hair and our 38 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: children and everything else. They're alarming levels of chemicals and 39 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: all those But that book really didn't address food and 40 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,279 Speaker 1: so I set out to really look into our industrial 41 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: food system to see what kinds of things we're eating, 42 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: how we got to where we are, and came up 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: with some fairly troubling evidence about things, uh, not just 44 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: about the chemicals like the pesticides and herbiscide that we get, 45 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: but also genetically modified food, which is really what the 46 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: book is about. We have a champion campaigns to try 47 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: to stop GMOs, try to at least get the foods 48 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: labeled uh, and we have backed people who are pushing 49 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: those campaigns on this program. Okay, with some success in 50 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: some cases, but not enough is being done. Well. You know, 51 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: I've been listening to your the segments that you've done 52 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: so far, and I see I see a common thread 53 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: here when you're talking about fake news and how people 54 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: have this really deep distrust of all kinds of things. 55 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: They have deep distrust of the press, they have deep 56 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: distrust of the president. Depending on which side you're on, 57 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: there's really this feeling that nobody knows who to trust anymore. 58 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: And I think this labeling question really speaks to that. 59 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: People when it comes to what they eat, which is 60 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: one of the most intimate things you'll do every day, 61 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: people don't know what's in their food. They don't know 62 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: who to ask for real advice about what's in their food. 63 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: The whole process of eating has become a really mysterious 64 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: thing to people. And uh, this is really what this 65 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: book is about, is trying to lay out exactly how 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: the system that feeds us all has been built and 67 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: how at all functions, and labeling is a big part 68 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: of that. For sure. Has the system been bought off 69 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: to the point where they don't want to take care 70 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: of us? Word defend us, Well, I think the question 71 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: is who is they? So there there are too two 72 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: large groups that people get most frustrated at. One is government, 73 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: which they think is not protecting them, and I think 74 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: that's a legit him it gripe. The second is the industry, 75 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: which is providing the food that is trying to avoid 76 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: being regulated. So what you have is giant industrial, chemical, 77 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: agricultural companies that control everything that we eat. And they're 78 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: only really about six companies that are in control of 79 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: a very large percentage of what we're eating every day, 80 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: and they have so much money and so much power 81 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: that they of course dictate policy in Washington. So the 82 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: policy that's not protecting us is being dictated by the companies, 83 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: So the companies dictated, the regulators don't do their job, 84 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: and we are all left holding the bag. So really 85 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: there are two groups that are kind of working in collusion, 86 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: and we then don't get the food or the information 87 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: that we really need. The title food Fight Tell me 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: about that, because I think that's so appropriate for what 89 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about tonight. Well, people have very strong opinions 90 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: about these things. If you ask someone what they think 91 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: about GMOs, they will probably give you a very strong opinion, 92 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: but they may not have a depth to their argument 93 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: that I think they could use. So, whether you're a 94 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: pro or con, this book will really offer you a 95 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: lot more evidence to support your your thoughts about things 96 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: because GMOs are now I mean, while it is is 97 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: really a plant, it's a technology for breeding plants. That's 98 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: really all we're talking about. If the question is how 99 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: are those GMOs used in this country? They're used largely 100 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: to grow herbicide resistant and pesticide resistant corn and soybeans, 101 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: two crops that are now spread on close to a 102 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy million acres of American land hundred and 103 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: seventy million acres of land to create two different grains 104 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: that go into feeding the animals that we eat in 105 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: fast food restaurants, processed food, empty calories. Really, I mean 106 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: this this food that they're producing is really not nutritious. 107 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: It's not terribly healthy. So regardless of what you think 108 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: of the technology, the food it creates is really not beneficial. 109 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: And that's a much larger conversation than whether you like 110 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: the technology or not. Is it also a way to 111 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: control the seeds so you make a lot of money 112 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: exclusively without absolutely sure. I mean, these companies create the seeds, 113 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: they patent the seeds, they control the seeds, and then 114 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: if any farmer happens to have any of these seeds 115 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: drift onto their own crops, they get they can get 116 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: hassled by the companies, they can get sued by Yes, 117 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: they can get sued and core. I mean, there's all 118 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: kinds of that sort of thing. That's all to protect 119 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: the very large amount of money that these companies are 120 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: putting into growing these seeds. But it creates, as you 121 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: as you say many times in the show, it really 122 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: creates this culture of paranoia and suspicion and worry about 123 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: who's got are the consumers back and right right now? 124 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like the companies or the government are 125 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: terribly interested in providing good, nutritious food for people. They're 126 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: interested in creating enormous profits on unhealthy food. And mackay, 127 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: what about the dangers and the science behind playing around 128 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: with Mother nature? I mean, they are literally altering the 129 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: genetics of these foods, for corn, the soybeans too, you know, 130 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: just about everything. Isn't that a danger one day? Well, 131 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: this is certainly something that a lot of people are 132 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: worried about. I will tell you what the global scientific 133 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: community says, and then you can accept that or not. 134 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: The global scientific community, I mean the most highly respected 135 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: scientific organizations in the world, not just in the US, 136 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: but in the world. They all say the same thing, 137 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: that eating GMOs is no more dangerous to your health 138 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: and eating regular food. That's what they say, and there's 139 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: almost unanimity in that. Many many people don't buy that. 140 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: I mean, just in there, at their gut level, they say, 141 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: eating something that has been manipulated in a laboratory cannot 142 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: possibly be the same as something that has evolved over 143 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: millions of years to grow out in a field. Now, 144 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: there's that's really more of a philosophical question than a 145 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: scientific one, I suppose you could say. And that's where 146 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: a lot of scientists get really angry because they say 147 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't make any scientific sense. On the other hand, 148 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: it's hard to argue with somebody's gut when they say, uh, 149 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, people have been eating a kind of a a 150 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: certain kind of way for a very long time, and 151 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: now there's this new thing. How do you expect me 152 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: to trust it? I think that gets back to this 153 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: whole question of who people think they can trust well, 154 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure I would want to eat knowingly 155 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 1: some kind of food that has been altered to fight 156 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: insects or weeds built into the food, because what will 157 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: it do to you? Wants it hits your stomach? Well, 158 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: I think that here, So here's where we can start 159 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: breaking things down. So that the GMO corn that you're 160 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: talking about has been altered to have a bacterium inside 161 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: that will resist being let the corn resist being eaten 162 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 1: by caterpillars, so you are in essence eating an insecticide. 163 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: The argument is that that insecticide is a naturally occurring 164 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: bacterium that has been introduced into the corn plant. On 165 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: the other hand, there the herbicide resistant GMOs are being 166 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: designed so that when you spray them with chemicals, they 167 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: will not other and die. It'll kill everything else, but 168 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: it won't kill that plant. And so therefore you are 169 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: by definition going to be absorbing a lot of petrochemical herbicide. 170 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: So that's the major thing here that we're talking about. 171 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: If you have, you know, a hundred million acres of 172 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: soybeans that are being sprayed with herbicides and now you're 173 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: getting the herbicides in the soybeans, there's just no getting 174 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: around that. Now, you mean, not care about that, But 175 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: that's pretty much a given with the way these things 176 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: are grown. And where do we stand right now with 177 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: the science in terms of what they're going to do 178 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: in the future. I mean, how many more foods will 179 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: they alter? Well, you just saw about two weeks ago. 180 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: I mean, so just back up. So everybody around the 181 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 1: world is more worried about this than Americans are, and 182 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: part of it is because we're drinking the kool aid 183 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: of these companies and just being told that there's no problem. 184 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: There's no problem. Everyone else in the world is way 185 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: more suspicious than we are. So you take that as 186 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: a given. Now, the companies are desperately trying to find 187 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: a product that will make Americans feel better about GMOs. 188 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: And about two weeks ago they introduce something known as 189 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: the Arctic apple, which is the GMO apple, and the 190 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: only thing it does that when you cut it open, 191 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: it doesn't turn brown right away. And I don't know 192 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 1: about you, but that that just does not seem to 193 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: be all that sexy to me. What I think is 194 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: going on is the companies want something that will turn 195 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: Americans around and make them happier about GMOs, so then 196 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: they can start introducing all kinds of other things. And 197 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: the future is going to be dizzy ng because you're 198 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: gonna suddenly not just have GMO plants, but now you 199 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: have this technology called crisper, which is going to allow 200 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: scientists to alter the genetics of animals. So you're gonna 201 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: start to see everything from pigs to chicken stow to 202 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: cattle that are going to have their genetics altered. You've 203 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: got a GMO salmon, you know, You're You're suddenly going 204 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: to have wave larger and more visible animal products out 205 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: there on the market, and that's going to be a 206 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,599 Speaker 1: real game changer. I think listen to more Coast to 207 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: coast AM every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and 208 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: go to coast to coast am dot com for more