WEBVTT - Why is There a Battle Over Net Neutrality? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey, everybody, stuff you should know is going on tour. 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:08.119 Do do do do do? What are the deeds? My friend? Okay, 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.920 So starting August eighth in Toronto, that's in Canada. We're 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.320 gonna be at dan Fourth Music Hall. And then Chicago. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.800 We're gonna be there the next night, August nine, at 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.320 the Harris Theater at Chicago. We want to see your faces. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.000 Step it up, Step it Up. Vancouver or the Vote 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:26.320 Theater September. That's gonna be a great show, I think, 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.760 don't you. It's gonna be a great one. And then 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.160 Minneapolis at the Pantageous Theater where we've been before. It's 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:36.360 lovely September. Yeah, and then we're gonna swing down to Austin. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.120 It's gonna be during Austin City Limits, although it has 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.639 nothing to do with Austin City limits. Will be there 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.280 October ten, yes, and then we're going to Lovely Lawrence, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.360 Kansas go Jayhawks. Yeah, on October eleven. Then Hey, if 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.080 you're in Kansas City or anywhere in that area, this 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.760 is your chance. Get in your car. Yeah. Uh. If 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.360 you are anywhere near Brooklyn, well then you should go 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.720 to the Bellhouse October. Will be there all three nights. 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:02.800 And finally we're gonna wrap it up here in Atlanta 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.600 at the Bucket Theater on November four for a benefit 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.720 show where we are donating all of the money's to 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.800 Lifeline Animal Project of Atlanta and the National Down Syndrome Society. Yep. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.520 So for all this information again visually and for links 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.759 two tickets, just go to s y s K live 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:26.040 dot com. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:34.600 Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.280 I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.520 So this is stuff you should know the podcast. Correct. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.720 We are not going dark, No, although that's a thing. 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.840 It is a thing for the Battle for the Net 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.360 Action Day, Battle of the Network Stars. Nope, just net okay, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.080 Battle for the Net Yeah, which I would guess most 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.360 people have heard of, maybe not by that name necessarily, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.320 but um say, if you're a John Oliver fan or 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.600 have been paying attention at all to the FCC rules 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:15.040 about net neutrality, um, Battle for the Net is is 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.760 kind of at the forefront of all that. Yeah. And 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.280 since our show comes out on a Tuesday, which is 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.280 July eleven, and that is the day that, uh, some 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.919 websites have elected to go dark. I think they're going 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.200 dark the next day. Yeah, okay, al right, well then 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.840 I don't feel so bad, right, but we we figured 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.960 we're actually someone wrote in suggesting this, Um, then maybe 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.000 instead of going dark, because you guys probably can't do that, 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.320 maybe you should just do an episode on net neutrality 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.359 to teach all the people's about the things, which I 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.800 thought was a pretty pretty good I suggestion. I agree, 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.120 good suggestion. Yeah, I feel bad that we UM. I 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.640 can't remember who it was that road in, but thank 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.520 you for that. Whoever it was, you know who you are, 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.360 because you're the only one who did. Yeah, and they 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.080 don't do it for the glory. No, So what are 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.560 we talking about, Chuck, When we're talking about net neutrality 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:17.720 or network neutrality or open internet? So what that is? Um? 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.640 Mainly what people mean when they say net neutrality is 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:25.600 the idea that the Internet is an open road and 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:30.400 it doesn't have fast lanes or slow lanes. Uh. It 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.640 is providing equal access to anyone who wants to build 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.200 a website, let's say, can can throw it up there 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:42.960 and have equal access to the big rollers on the 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.880 internet with huge sites. You're all the same as far 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.840 as how people can access you and whether or not 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.760 they can access you. Yeah, and how fast they can 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.560 access you. Exactly right. There was this um there's a 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.240 great explainer in Vox about net neutrality that that we 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.480 used as a resource. But they gave this good example 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:09.480 of net neutrality. Right, So they pointed out that when 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:14.440 um Facebook was created, Zuckerberg didn't have to go to 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.680 Comcast or Verizon or any of the I s p s, 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.719 the Internet service providers, the companies that provide the last mile, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.520 the connection between your house and the public Internet. Okay, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.520 that's what an I s P is very important to 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:29.800 remember that part. Right. He didn't have to go to 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.760 them and say, hey, will you carry my website on 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.680 your network? He just built the website, plugged it into 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.039 the Internet, uploaded it to the Internet, and it was 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:45.520 available to any device or computer that was connected to 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.559 the Internet anywhere in the world. Right. And the fact 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.120 that he didn't have to go to them and ask 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.080 that to be added to their network, The fact that 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.240 he didn't have to go to them to say, hey, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.760 I need people to be able to download this stuff fast. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:01.000 So here's a bunch of extra money. UM. The fact 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.120 that he didn't do that. That's how it has been 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.880 up to this point. That is network neutrality. That's the 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.479 that's the basis of net neutrality, especially from the standpoint 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:17.799 of UM developers and companies that create sites and applications 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.120 on the web. Yeah, it's uh wow, that's a very 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.440 large spider crawling next to me. Sorry, I saw something 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:31.039 out of corn ofm eye and I'm on yeah, nope, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.760 just a big spider. Uh, good for you. So it's 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:40.000 an It levels the playing field, and all Internet traffic 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.120 is treated equally. Right, So not only does it level 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.040 the playing field for people who are creating you know, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:51.400 Facebook or Netflix or what have you, it also levels 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:56.800 the playing field or levels the experience for users. Right, 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.080 if you're a user and you are on UM the 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.520 Internet through your I s P, like, you should be 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.400 getting whatever site you want to go to at the 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.840 same speed as any other site, and your Internet service 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.160 provider shouldn't be able to decide we don't really like 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.240 you getting that site, we don't really like you having 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.920 that app. We're gonna make it so that this this 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.719 traffic moves so slowly, you're gonna give up trying to 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.839 download it, or we're just gonna block it entirely. Yeah, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.160 and why maybe because that's a competitor to us in 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.360 some way and we would like to serve you up 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.960 our product faster, right, So preventing sps from being able 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:42.120 to do that. That's open, open internet or network neutrality. Okay, 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.800 that's the basis of it. That is currently how it 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.280 stands right now. UM, and the idea of network neutrality, 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:54.080 it's it's UM, I guess about fifteen years old back 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.600 in a two to a guy named Tim Woo who 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.640 is a Columbia University law professor or not, I believe, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.520 coined the term network neutrality to basically describe a level 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.280 playing field for everybody involved, right especially at the at 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:14.640 the Internet service provider level. And since then it's become 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.800 this topic of debate like should it should this be 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.840 um something that that that we all want to adopt 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.640 as like the basically the rules for the Internet. Should 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.920 network neutrality be the basis of how the Internet is 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.880 built and approached? Which is a big deal because we are, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.280 even though it seems like we're far along, we are 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.880 still in the infancy stage of the Internet and the 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:45.000 impacts UH would be long lasting and huge moving forward. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:50.200 For from what I understand, most people agree that net 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:56.240 neutrality is at its basis, the an agreeable way to 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.280 frame the the Internet. That's the way it should be. 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.920 And there was even back in two fourteen. As we'll see, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.720 we just went through this um and we're going through 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.480 it again now. But back in two fourteen, there were 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.800 a pair of polls that I ran across from two 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.360 different groups. One of them is University of Delaware. I 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.360 can't remember who the other one was, but it found 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:23.640 that um, even among conservatives, that net neutrality is highly valued. 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:29.040 Something like eight of people who identify as conservative say 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.880 that I s p s should be prevented from slowing 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:36.480 or blocking traffic, right, and that Congress should actually do 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.640 something about it. Right. So people people buy in large 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.760 degree that net neutrality is the way the Internet should go. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.240 The division that has really kind of come out, especially recently, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.040 is how that good can be achieved. Do you achieve 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.480 it by giving power to the FCC to go police 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.959 the I s p s and find them and basically 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.640 make life hard for them if they don't follow the rules, 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:10.040 or do you remove any teeth that the FCC might 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.200 have in policing the I s p s and just 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.800 leave it up to competition. And depending on where you 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:21.640 fall ideologically as far as um government regulation goes, is 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.000 probably where you're going to fall along the spectrum of 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.600 net neutrality. Yeah, and it's uh, it's not a black 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:34.440 and white thing like you would think. Um, Like, uh, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.280 the end user just saying, yeah, you know, there's got 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.319 to be net neutrality no matter what. There's a lot 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.280 of users are like, I don't know, man, I like 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.720 care about is streaming my stuff as efficiently as fast 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.800 as possible, And if if getting rid of net neutrality 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.000 would increase that competition and I could get my Netflix 0:09:54.080 --> 0:10:00.199 movies awesomer and faster than I'm all for it, right. Um. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.880 On the other side, you've got big corporate corporations that 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.599 maybe don't feel like you think they might. Yeah, you 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.760 would think, you know that stuff like this usually when 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.400 the government's involved, it's like a big guy, big corporation 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.920 versus little guy kind of thing. But no, there's a 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.840 there's a dispute between corporations too, like you said, where 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:23.480 the I s p s like Verizon and Comcast, UM 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.839 and A T and T are lined up against the 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.679 tech companies like the tech media companies like YouTube and 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:38.920 Netflix and formerly Tumbler, some of the other guys, Facebook, Google, um. 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.800 Where they're they're on opposite sides of this this issue, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.080 which is strange because they need each other. They have 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.679 very incestuous relationships that are very complicated and complex. Um. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.800 But as far as net neutrality goes, they are pretty 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:58.400 much divided between I s p s and tech media companies. 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.440 One side is the against the net neutrality rules. One 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.760 side is strongly in favor of them. Boy, and you 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.240 talk about complicated like in the future companies corporations merging 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.320 and then I sps being a part of the same 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:18.560 company or getting into the media content game, like things 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.360 are getting interesting, you know, yeah, interesting but also kind 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.320 of scary because right now, um back in well, back 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.240 in two thousand and fifteen, the FCC UM struck a 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.720 huge blow to the I s p s with a 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.200 set of new rules four page compendium, I guess you 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:40.600 would call it of rules that basically said, you guys 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.559 can't mess around anymore. The I s p s are 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.040 not allowed to block or throttle or provide fast lanes. Um. 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.280 Stuff getting real and the net really is going to 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.400 be neutral from now on. UM. That was under Obama 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.320 and Trump has appointed a UM a different FCC chairman 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.920 who was a member of the SEC before UH, and 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.480 he is not in favor of that at all. So, UM, 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.400 do you wanna do you want to talk about the 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.040 what the two fifteen rules are and kind of how 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.240 it is for the moment. Well, here's what I think 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.079 we should do. I think we should take a break. Okay, 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.080 all right, we should uh go back in time when 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.880 we come back and talk a little bit about the 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.840 phone companies, which will kind of set the stage for 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.559 what's going on today. Okay, alright, alright, we'll be right back. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:56.320 That's why we should know, should know. But Josh Clark, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.960 all right, I promised talk about phone companies because that's 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.800 exciting stuff. Yeah, it is. It's amazing how much telephone 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.360 companies have shaped UH law and policy in this country 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.760 over the years. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it is like 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.760 with the telephone monopolies back in the day. I mean 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.320 that was it's all very interesting. Yeah, you used to 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.080 have to lease your telephone from the phone company like 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.600 people in buy telephones you released it. Yeah, were there 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.800 just one telephone company wasn't it just bell Yeah, basically yeah, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.920 and then they broke it up into the smaller bells, 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.719 the baby bells. I think that's what they call them. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.680 This is all like from my childhood, so I didn't 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.360 really look up much of that. Um, but we're talking 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.600 about the FCC. Uh here is the governing body. And 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.240 back in the seventies and eighties, they were sort of 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.720 early in on this game with the phone companies in 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:52.719 the early days of computer uh networking, and they came 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.559 out really early on. They had a lot of foresight 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.080 back then and said, you know what, we need to 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.559 guarantee consumers with the right to use modems on their 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.880 phone lines. Yeah, because this is like everyone's seeing war 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.440 games and we all know that that's that's how the 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.640 future is going, Right, you gotta put your phone on 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.520 a big box. Ye, your phone receiver on a big box. 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.160 I wanted one of those so bad. Yeah, Like they 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.800 were so expensive. You literally connected your phone, right. I 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.200 had no idea what to do with it. I just 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.800 thought like, well, that's that's computer plus yeah exactly. But 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.560 the but treating the saying okay, everybody has the right 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.480 to have a modem in their house and to use 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.080 a phone line to use it. That's that's that was 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.360 a kind of a radical idea. And the reason why 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.320 is because when you're talking about um telephone carriers right, 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.200 like back in the day, um A T and T right, 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.520 mob Belt, what what you were saying is you're a 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:57.320 private corporation. You have gone and laid telephone wires all 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:02.840 throughout the United States. You guys built the US telephone infrastructure. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.440 And yes, we the government, the taxpayers, gave you substantial 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.760 tax breaks and in lots of benefits to doing this. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.480 And you guys are the ones making the money operating 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.400 these phone lines. But we have decided that the phone 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.760 lines are so important to the public good that you 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.120 guys aren't allowed to just be a normal corporation. That 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.680 the government stays las fair hands off with right, you 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:34.680 guys are deemed order considered common carriers. But yeah, well 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.720 you're like the people who carry people along roads, like 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.920 goods and people. Right, You're like an airline, You're like 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.760 a you're like a cargo transport ship. You're like a 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:51.080 greyhound bus, but but with telephone lines. Right, So the 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.000 government said everyone should be able to have access to 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.880 telephone lines. You can charge people for that access, but 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.120 you can't mess with their access. We're not letting you. 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.880 And in the seventies one of the things, or the eighties, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.720 I think one of the things the government said was, Hey, 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.120 you know how we're kind of the bosses of you guys, 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.760 even though your private corporations, Well, we're gonna boss you 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.040 around right now and say, any business that wants to 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:20.040 come along and use your phone lines to provide dial 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.080 up modem service to their customers, you have to let 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.240 them do it. And that was it was for the 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.360 public good. And by doing that, the dial up Internet 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:36.600 UM industry was able to blossom unfettered with government protection. Right, 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.120 the government got in between that blossoming industry that was 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.600 in competition with the telephone companies, and the telephone companies 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.120 that could have strangled it in the cradle. And that 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.800 was that was the first big thing that the SEC 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.920 did as far as the Internet goes. Yeah, and very 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:59.400 important UH distinction was drawn with basically Congress drawing up 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.120 to category stories. And this you'll see plays out kind 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.479 of over and over and will continue to in the future. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:11.320 UM two different things, telecommunication services and information services. So 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.439 telecom services, UH we're talking about the phone lines. That 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.959 what we were talking about here, And um, as far 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.080 as the law is concerned, there are a lot of 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.919 like you were talking about, legal obligations on these services, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.359 and the FCC has a lot of um oversight and 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:34.480 regulation over them. Yeah. Uh. Information services on the other hand, Um, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.040 they said, like like Facebook, that's an information service. YouTube 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:43.120 is an information service. They were less or well basically 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:47.480 exempt for most of the FCC regulations. So dividing those 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.840 things in two was a very, very big deal. And 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:55.080 during the Clinton years what most people would consider what 0:17:55.240 --> 0:18:00.520 a JITPI, which we he is Trump's um pick to 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.159 chair the FCC. He called the Clinton era and basically 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:08.440 up through two thousand fifteen a light touch regulation, which 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.120 is what he is in favor of and what we'll 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.560 get to him a little bit more in a minute. Um, 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:17.920 but it's that Clinton era fec uh regulations that basically 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.639 did what you're talking about and said, you know what 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.879 we want DSL that's the newest thing forget dial up. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.399 We want to send faster speeds over the Internet, and 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.679 you all have to play along. So they did it 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:31.760 again to the phone companies. They went to and said, 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.360 remember dial up modems. No one wants that any longer. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.120 Everybody wants DSL. So now you guys have to let 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.040 any DSL provider use your phone lines, and that let 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.560 the DSL, the beginning of the high speed Internet industry flourish. Right. 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.119 So there's this pattern of the SEC coming in and 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.920 being like, you guys are huge, You guys who provide 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:54.000 that last mile. You common carriers, who are the gatekeepers 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.760 between the public at large and the public Internet. You 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.480 guys stand in between them, and we're saying you can 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.600 do this, you can't do that. You can do this, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.480 you can't do that. And for a while, the I 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:11.080 s p s were classified as telecommunication services, which meant 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.560 that they fell under way more oversight and scrutiny, like 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.040 you said, than say, like YouTube. And the reason the 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:22.840 government did this was to let the Internet start to boom, right, Yes, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.359 And I'm not sure why, I guess because it was 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:33.680 Bush era, and the Bush FCC chair said we shouldn't 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.880 be classifying I s p s as telecommunications companies anymore, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.080 but we have to. It's the law. He went to 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.919 court and the court said no, Actually, you guys are 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.280 the f CC. If you want to start classifying Internet 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.240 service providers as information services, which are not as heavily regulated. 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.119 You guys go ahead and do that. So the Bush 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.560 era FEC said, okay, well, we here by decree that 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:05.760 Internet service providers are not the akin to the Bell 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:11.120 telephone switchboard operators of your They're much more akin to YouTube. 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.040 They're part of the Internet, which, if you really stop 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.880 and think about it, doesn't make much sense. But that 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.600 that was that that was a huge sea change in 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.919 what the government could say or do to I s 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.439 p s. That gave them way more freedom to do 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:32.000 a lot more stuff after they were classified as information services. Yeah. 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.800 And then, uh, in two thousand and ten, the chair 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.439 of the SEC at the time, Julius Ganikowski, said, you 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.439 know what, we've got some new regulations on the books. 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.040 We're gonna prohibit I s p s from blocking content online. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:49.680 We're gonna prohibit what we call unreasonable discrimination, and they're 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.200 all gonna have to be a little more transparent about 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.159 what's going on. And this is in the era of 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.080 broadband now, right. Uh. And then Verizon stepped up and said, 0:20:58.119 --> 0:20:59.760 you know what, we don't like the sounds of this. 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.960 This is you guys are stepping way over your your 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.280 congressional power here. Yeah, they said, well, don't forget you 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.560 guys classified us as information services. You can't tell us 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:12.840 to to do or not do this stuff. We're not 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.760 telecoms anymore, suckers. Yeah, pretty much. Uh, And the d 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.000 C Circuit Cord of Appeals agreed with Verizon and this 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.280 is just inten so just a few years ago then 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.719 said those rules have got to go. As long as 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.080 you're classified that way, Uh, then you're gonna have to 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:33.800 play by these rules. Right. But that changed again in 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:38.240 two thousand and fourteen when Tom Wheeler came along as 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:43.159 the chair of the FCC and he kind of flip flopped. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.960 He came out initially and proposed some rules that people said, no, 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:51.199 that's like, that's way too weak, bra Right, Well he was. 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.000 They got leaked and there was a huge backlash in 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.439 public outcry against it. And but I don't think anyone 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:03.240 was surprised because Tom Wheeler was a longstanding UM lobbyist 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.439 for the cable and wireless industries, right, so he was 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.399 an industry insider who was supposed to be regulating that 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.080 that industry that he was already friends within, where his 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.240 background was, so nobody was really surprised when the FCC 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.080 came out with these really weakened rules on I s 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:25.199 p s. But there was a huge backlash. Yeah, that 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.720 was the first battle for the net. And then Wheeler 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:33.119 went whooa, whoa, whoa, I was just kidding, Um, here's 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.760 here's my real document. He didn't really say that, but 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.359 he came up with a new document with with bigger, 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:41.679 sharper teeth, and that was what you referenced earlier four 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:46.639 page document called the two thousand fifteen Open Internet Order, 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:49.960 which was a really big deal. And that was a 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:54.320 surprise because Wheeler, again who was a lobbyist for the 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:59.800 these very industries, um not only reversed course from these 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:04.400 toothless weak law rules to much stronger rules that were 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.760 in step with the what the net neutrality advocates were 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:12.320 asking for. He actually went even further and made even stronger, 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.800 tighter net neutrality rules and then took the time to 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:20.919 write something like three hundred pages of rules explaining the 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:25.280 logic and the thought behind all this, which could pose 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.240 a problem as we'll talk about later for a jeep 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:32.840 Pie and the Trump FCC to get past. But the 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.920 the it was a huge, huge surprise that came out 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:40.720 of nowhere in an enormous victory for net neutrality advocates 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.960 and for Obama and his administration. It became one of 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:49.680 the signature um acts I guess or watershed moments for 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.880 the Obama administration because he campaigned as a net neutrality supporter. 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:57.240 And then finally, you know, one year, the last year 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.159 of his presidency, his FCC just dropped the mic on 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:05.000 net neutrality and said it is it is done. Yeah, 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:07.520 and within that Open Internet Order one of the first 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:09.080 I mean, it did a couple of big things, but 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:12.280 the big big thing it did was it said, hey, 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:17.600 remember way back in nine the Communications Act, we think 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:22.560 we can actually reclassify broadband as what we're gonna call 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:26.840 a title to telecommunication service. So remember earlier when we 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.920 said they split it up in the two buckets. Uh, 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.320 this all changed a couple of years ago when they 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:36.840 can now classify you know, Verizon, our Comcast as a 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:41.080 telecom service, which again means it's a common carrier and 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:45.200 much more heavily regulated. Yeah. So the SEC was like, oh, 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:47.800 we can't tell you what to do if you're classified 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.639 as an information service, Well you're no longer classified. Is 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.840 that you're classify as a telecommunications service now and we 0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:57.080 are up your rectum. It's so interesting that this like 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:00.280 we've seen the birth of this industry that like is 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:03.720