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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, stuff you should know is going on tour.

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Speaker 1: Do do do do do? What are the deeds? My friend? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So starting August eighth in Toronto, that's in Canada. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna be at dan Fourth Music Hall. And then Chicago.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be there the next night, August nine, at

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Speaker 1: the Harris Theater at Chicago. We want to see your faces.

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Speaker 1: Step it up, Step it Up. Vancouver or the Vote

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Speaker 1: Theater September. That's gonna be a great show, I think,

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Speaker 1: don't you. It's gonna be a great one. And then

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Speaker 1: Minneapolis at the Pantageous Theater where we've been before. It's

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Speaker 1: lovely September. Yeah, and then we're gonna swing down to Austin.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be during Austin City Limits, although it has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with Austin City limits. Will be there

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Speaker 1: October ten, yes, and then we're going to Lovely Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: Kansas go Jayhawks. Yeah, on October eleven. Then Hey, if

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Speaker 1: you're in Kansas City or anywhere in that area, this

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Speaker 1: is your chance. Get in your car. Yeah. Uh. If

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Speaker 1: you are anywhere near Brooklyn, well then you should go

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Speaker 1: to the Bellhouse October. Will be there all three nights.

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Speaker 1: And finally we're gonna wrap it up here in Atlanta

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Speaker 1: at the Bucket Theater on November four for a benefit

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Speaker 1: show where we are donating all of the money's to

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Speaker 1: Lifeline Animal Project of Atlanta and the National Down Syndrome Society. Yep.

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Speaker 1: So for all this information again visually and for links

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Speaker 1: two tickets, just go to s y s K live

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Speaker 1: dot com. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there.

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Speaker 1: So this is stuff you should know the podcast. Correct.

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Speaker 1: We are not going dark, No, although that's a thing.

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Speaker 1: It is a thing for the Battle for the Net

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Speaker 1: Action Day, Battle of the Network Stars. Nope, just net okay,

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Speaker 1: Battle for the Net Yeah, which I would guess most

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Speaker 1: people have heard of, maybe not by that name necessarily,

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Speaker 1: but um say, if you're a John Oliver fan or

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Speaker 1: have been paying attention at all to the FCC rules

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Speaker 1: about net neutrality, um, Battle for the Net is is

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Speaker 1: kind of at the forefront of all that. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: since our show comes out on a Tuesday, which is

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Speaker 1: July eleven, and that is the day that, uh, some

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Speaker 1: websites have elected to go dark. I think they're going

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Speaker 1: dark the next day. Yeah, okay, al right, well then

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Speaker 1: I don't feel so bad, right, but we we figured

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Speaker 1: we're actually someone wrote in suggesting this, Um, then maybe

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Speaker 1: instead of going dark, because you guys probably can't do that,

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Speaker 1: maybe you should just do an episode on net neutrality

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Speaker 1: to teach all the people's about the things, which I

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Speaker 1: thought was a pretty pretty good I suggestion. I agree,

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Speaker 1: good suggestion. Yeah, I feel bad that we UM. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember who it was that road in, but thank

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Speaker 1: you for that. Whoever it was, you know who you are,

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Speaker 1: because you're the only one who did. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 1: don't do it for the glory. No, So what are

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Speaker 1: we talking about, Chuck, When we're talking about net neutrality

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Speaker 1: or network neutrality or open internet? So what that is? Um?

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Speaker 1: Mainly what people mean when they say net neutrality is

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Speaker 1: the idea that the Internet is an open road and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have fast lanes or slow lanes. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: is providing equal access to anyone who wants to build

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Speaker 1: a website, let's say, can can throw it up there

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Speaker 1: and have equal access to the big rollers on the

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Speaker 1: internet with huge sites. You're all the same as far

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Speaker 1: as how people can access you and whether or not

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Speaker 1: they can access you. Yeah, and how fast they can

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Speaker 1: access you. Exactly right. There was this um there's a

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Speaker 1: great explainer in Vox about net neutrality that that we

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Speaker 1: used as a resource. But they gave this good example

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Speaker 1: of net neutrality. Right, So they pointed out that when

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Speaker 1: um Facebook was created, Zuckerberg didn't have to go to

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Speaker 1: Comcast or Verizon or any of the I s p s,

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Speaker 1: the Internet service providers, the companies that provide the last mile,

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Speaker 1: the connection between your house and the public Internet. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's what an I s P is very important to

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Speaker 1: remember that part. Right. He didn't have to go to

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Speaker 1: them and say, hey, will you carry my website on

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Speaker 1: your network? He just built the website, plugged it into

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Speaker 1: the Internet, uploaded it to the Internet, and it was

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Speaker 1: available to any device or computer that was connected to

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Speaker 1: the Internet anywhere in the world. Right. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that he didn't have to go to them and ask

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Speaker 1: that to be added to their network, The fact that

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Speaker 1: he didn't have to go to them to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I need people to be able to download this stuff fast.

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Speaker 1: So here's a bunch of extra money. UM. The fact

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Speaker 1: that he didn't do that. That's how it has been

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Speaker 1: up to this point. That is network neutrality. That's the

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Speaker 1: that's the basis of net neutrality, especially from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: of UM developers and companies that create sites and applications

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Speaker 1: on the web. Yeah, it's uh wow, that's a very

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Speaker 1: large spider crawling next to me. Sorry, I saw something

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Speaker 1: out of corn ofm eye and I'm on yeah, nope,

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Speaker 1: just a big spider. Uh, good for you. So it's

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Speaker 1: an It levels the playing field, and all Internet traffic

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Speaker 1: is treated equally. Right, So not only does it level

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Speaker 1: the playing field for people who are creating you know,

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Speaker 1: Facebook or Netflix or what have you, it also levels

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Speaker 1: the playing field or levels the experience for users. Right,

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Speaker 1: if you're a user and you are on UM the

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Speaker 1: Internet through your I s P, like, you should be

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Speaker 1: getting whatever site you want to go to at the

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Speaker 1: same speed as any other site, and your Internet service

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Speaker 1: provider shouldn't be able to decide we don't really like

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Speaker 1: you getting that site, we don't really like you having

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Speaker 1: that app. We're gonna make it so that this this

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Speaker 1: traffic moves so slowly, you're gonna give up trying to

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Speaker 1: download it, or we're just gonna block it entirely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and why maybe because that's a competitor to us in

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Speaker 1: some way and we would like to serve you up

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Speaker 1: our product faster, right, So preventing sps from being able

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Speaker 1: to do that. That's open, open internet or network neutrality. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's the basis of it. That is currently how it

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Speaker 1: stands right now. UM, and the idea of network neutrality,

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Speaker 1: it's it's UM, I guess about fifteen years old back

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Speaker 1: in a two to a guy named Tim Woo who

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Speaker 1: is a Columbia University law professor or not, I believe,

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Speaker 1: coined the term network neutrality to basically describe a level

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Speaker 1: playing field for everybody involved, right especially at the at

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Speaker 1: the Internet service provider level. And since then it's become

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Speaker 1: this topic of debate like should it should this be

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Speaker 1: um something that that that we all want to adopt

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Speaker 1: as like the basically the rules for the Internet. Should

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Speaker 1: network neutrality be the basis of how the Internet is

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Speaker 1: built and approached? Which is a big deal because we are,

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Speaker 1: even though it seems like we're far along, we are

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Speaker 1: still in the infancy stage of the Internet and the

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Speaker 1: impacts UH would be long lasting and huge moving forward.

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Speaker 1: For from what I understand, most people agree that net

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Speaker 1: neutrality is at its basis, the an agreeable way to

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Speaker 1: frame the the Internet. That's the way it should be.

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Speaker 1: And there was even back in two fourteen. As we'll see,

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Speaker 1: we just went through this um and we're going through

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Speaker 1: it again now. But back in two fourteen, there were

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Speaker 1: a pair of polls that I ran across from two

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Speaker 1: different groups. One of them is University of Delaware. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember who the other one was, but it found

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Speaker 1: that um, even among conservatives, that net neutrality is highly valued.

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Speaker 1: Something like eight of people who identify as conservative say

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Speaker 1: that I s p s should be prevented from slowing

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Speaker 1: or blocking traffic, right, and that Congress should actually do

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Speaker 1: something about it. Right. So people people buy in large

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Speaker 1: degree that net neutrality is the way the Internet should go.

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Speaker 1: The division that has really kind of come out, especially recently,

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Speaker 1: is how that good can be achieved. Do you achieve

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Speaker 1: it by giving power to the FCC to go police

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Speaker 1: the I s p s and find them and basically

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Speaker 1: make life hard for them if they don't follow the rules,

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Speaker 1: or do you remove any teeth that the FCC might

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Speaker 1: have in policing the I s p s and just

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Speaker 1: leave it up to competition. And depending on where you

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Speaker 1: fall ideologically as far as um government regulation goes, is

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Speaker 1: probably where you're going to fall along the spectrum of

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Speaker 1: net neutrality. Yeah, and it's uh, it's not a black

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Speaker 1: and white thing like you would think. Um, Like, uh,

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Speaker 1: the end user just saying, yeah, you know, there's got

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Speaker 1: to be net neutrality no matter what. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of users are like, I don't know, man, I like

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Speaker 1: care about is streaming my stuff as efficiently as fast

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Speaker 1: as possible, And if if getting rid of net neutrality

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Speaker 1: would increase that competition and I could get my Netflix

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Speaker 1: movies awesomer and faster than I'm all for it, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: On the other side, you've got big corporate corporations that

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Speaker 1: maybe don't feel like you think they might. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: would think, you know that stuff like this usually when

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Speaker 1: the government's involved, it's like a big guy, big corporation

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Speaker 1: versus little guy kind of thing. But no, there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a dispute between corporations too, like you said, where

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Speaker 1: the I s p s like Verizon and Comcast, UM

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Speaker 1: and A T and T are lined up against the

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Speaker 1: tech companies like the tech media companies like YouTube and

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Speaker 1: Netflix and formerly Tumbler, some of the other guys, Facebook, Google, um.

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Speaker 1: Where they're they're on opposite sides of this this issue,

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Speaker 1: which is strange because they need each other. They have

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Speaker 1: very incestuous relationships that are very complicated and complex. Um.

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Speaker 1: But as far as net neutrality goes, they are pretty

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Speaker 1: much divided between I s p s and tech media companies.

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Speaker 1: One side is the against the net neutrality rules. One

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Speaker 1: side is strongly in favor of them. Boy, and you

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Speaker 1: talk about complicated like in the future companies corporations merging

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Speaker 1: and then I sps being a part of the same

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Speaker 1: company or getting into the media content game, like things

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Speaker 1: are getting interesting, you know, yeah, interesting but also kind

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Speaker 1: of scary because right now, um back in well, back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen, the FCC UM struck a

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Speaker 1: huge blow to the I s p s with a

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Speaker 1: set of new rules four page compendium, I guess you

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Speaker 1: would call it of rules that basically said, you guys

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Speaker 1: can't mess around anymore. The I s p s are

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Speaker 1: not allowed to block or throttle or provide fast lanes. Um.

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Speaker 1: Stuff getting real and the net really is going to

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Speaker 1: be neutral from now on. UM. That was under Obama

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Speaker 1: and Trump has appointed a UM a different FCC chairman

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Speaker 1: who was a member of the SEC before UH, and

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Speaker 1: he is not in favor of that at all. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: do you wanna do you want to talk about the

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Speaker 1: what the two fifteen rules are and kind of how

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Speaker 1: it is for the moment. Well, here's what I think

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Speaker 1: we should do. I think we should take a break. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, we should uh go back in time when

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Speaker 1: we come back and talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: phone companies, which will kind of set the stage for

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Speaker 1: what's going on today. Okay, alright, alright, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: That's why we should know, should know. But Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: all right, I promised talk about phone companies because that's

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Speaker 1: exciting stuff. Yeah, it is. It's amazing how much telephone

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Speaker 1: companies have shaped UH law and policy in this country

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Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it is like

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Speaker 1: with the telephone monopolies back in the day. I mean

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Speaker 1: that was it's all very interesting. Yeah, you used to

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Speaker 1: have to lease your telephone from the phone company like

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Speaker 1: people in buy telephones you released it. Yeah, were there

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Speaker 1: just one telephone company wasn't it just bell Yeah, basically yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then they broke it up into the smaller bells,

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Speaker 1: the baby bells. I think that's what they call them.

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Speaker 1: This is all like from my childhood, so I didn't

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Speaker 1: really look up much of that. Um, but we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the FCC. Uh here is the governing body. And

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Speaker 1: back in the seventies and eighties, they were sort of

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Speaker 1: early in on this game with the phone companies in

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Speaker 1: the early days of computer uh networking, and they came

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Speaker 1: out really early on. They had a lot of foresight

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Speaker 1: back then and said, you know what, we need to

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Speaker 1: guarantee consumers with the right to use modems on their

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Speaker 1: phone lines. Yeah, because this is like everyone's seeing war

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Speaker 1: games and we all know that that's that's how the

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Speaker 1: future is going, Right, you gotta put your phone on

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Speaker 1: a big box. Ye, your phone receiver on a big box.

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Speaker 1: I wanted one of those so bad. Yeah, Like they

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Speaker 1: were so expensive. You literally connected your phone, right. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what to do with it. I just

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Speaker 1: thought like, well, that's that's computer plus yeah exactly. But

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Speaker 1: the but treating the saying okay, everybody has the right

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Speaker 1: to have a modem in their house and to use

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Speaker 1: a phone line to use it. That's that's that was

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Speaker 1: a kind of a radical idea. And the reason why

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Speaker 1: is because when you're talking about um telephone carriers right,

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Speaker 1: like back in the day, um A T and T right,

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Speaker 1: mob Belt, what what you were saying is you're a

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Speaker 1: private corporation. You have gone and laid telephone wires all

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Speaker 1: throughout the United States. You guys built the US telephone infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: And yes, we the government, the taxpayers, gave you substantial

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Speaker 1: tax breaks and in lots of benefits to doing this.

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Speaker 1: And you guys are the ones making the money operating

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Speaker 1: these phone lines. But we have decided that the phone

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Speaker 1: lines are so important to the public good that you

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Speaker 1: guys aren't allowed to just be a normal corporation. That

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Speaker 1: the government stays las fair hands off with right, you

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Speaker 1: guys are deemed order considered common carriers. But yeah, well

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Speaker 1: you're like the people who carry people along roads, like

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Speaker 1: goods and people. Right, You're like an airline, You're like

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Speaker 1: a you're like a cargo transport ship. You're like a

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Speaker 1: greyhound bus, but but with telephone lines. Right, So the

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Speaker 1: government said everyone should be able to have access to

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Speaker 1: telephone lines. You can charge people for that access, but

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Speaker 1: you can't mess with their access. We're not letting you.

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Speaker 1: And in the seventies one of the things, or the eighties,

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things the government said was, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know how we're kind of the bosses of you guys,

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Speaker 1: even though your private corporations, Well, we're gonna boss you

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Speaker 1: around right now and say, any business that wants to

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Speaker 1: come along and use your phone lines to provide dial

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Speaker 1: up modem service to their customers, you have to let

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Speaker 1: them do it. And that was it was for the

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Speaker 1: public good. And by doing that, the dial up Internet

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Speaker 1: UM industry was able to blossom unfettered with government protection. Right,

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Speaker 1: the government got in between that blossoming industry that was

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Speaker 1: in competition with the telephone companies, and the telephone companies

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Speaker 1: that could have strangled it in the cradle. And that

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Speaker 1: was that was the first big thing that the SEC

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Speaker 1: did as far as the Internet goes. Yeah, and very

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Speaker 1: important UH distinction was drawn with basically Congress drawing up

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Speaker 1: to category stories. And this you'll see plays out kind

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Speaker 1: of over and over and will continue to in the future.

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Speaker 1: UM two different things, telecommunication services and information services. So

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Speaker 1: telecom services, UH we're talking about the phone lines. That

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Speaker 1: what we were talking about here, And um, as far

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Speaker 1: as the law is concerned, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: like you were talking about, legal obligations on these services,

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Speaker 1: and the FCC has a lot of um oversight and

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Speaker 1: regulation over them. Yeah. Uh. Information services on the other hand, Um,

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Speaker 1: they said, like like Facebook, that's an information service. YouTube

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Speaker 1: is an information service. They were less or well basically

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Speaker 1: exempt for most of the FCC regulations. So dividing those

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Speaker 1: things in two was a very, very big deal. And

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Speaker 1: during the Clinton years what most people would consider what

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Speaker 1: a JITPI, which we he is Trump's um pick to

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Speaker 1: chair the FCC. He called the Clinton era and basically

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Speaker 1: up through two thousand fifteen a light touch regulation, which

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Speaker 1: is what he is in favor of and what we'll

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Speaker 1: get to him a little bit more in a minute. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's that Clinton era fec uh regulations that basically

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Speaker 1: did what you're talking about and said, you know what

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Speaker 1: we want DSL that's the newest thing forget dial up.

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Speaker 1: We want to send faster speeds over the Internet, and

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Speaker 1: you all have to play along. So they did it

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Speaker 1: again to the phone companies. They went to and said,

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Speaker 1: remember dial up modems. No one wants that any longer.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wants DSL. So now you guys have to let

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Speaker 1: any DSL provider use your phone lines, and that let

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Speaker 1: the DSL, the beginning of the high speed Internet industry flourish. Right.

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Speaker 1: So there's this pattern of the SEC coming in and

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Speaker 1: being like, you guys are huge, You guys who provide

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Speaker 1: that last mile. You common carriers, who are the gatekeepers

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Speaker 1: between the public at large and the public Internet. You

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Speaker 1: guys stand in between them, and we're saying you can

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Speaker 1: do this, you can't do that. You can do this,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that. And for a while, the I

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Speaker 1: s p s were classified as telecommunication services, which meant

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Speaker 1: that they fell under way more oversight and scrutiny, like

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Speaker 1: you said, than say, like YouTube. And the reason the

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Speaker 1: government did this was to let the Internet start to boom, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure why, I guess because it was

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Speaker 1: Bush era, and the Bush FCC chair said we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be classifying I s p s as telecommunications companies anymore,

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Speaker 1: but we have to. It's the law. He went to

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Speaker 1: court and the court said no, Actually, you guys are

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Speaker 1: the f CC. If you want to start classifying Internet

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Speaker 1: service providers as information services, which are not as heavily regulated.

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Speaker 1: You guys go ahead and do that. So the Bush

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Speaker 1: era FEC said, okay, well, we here by decree that

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Speaker 1: Internet service providers are not the akin to the Bell

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Speaker 1: telephone switchboard operators of your They're much more akin to YouTube.

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Speaker 1: They're part of the Internet, which, if you really stop

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Speaker 1: and think about it, doesn't make much sense. But that

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Speaker 1: that was that that was a huge sea change in

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Speaker 1: what the government could say or do to I s

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Speaker 1: p s. That gave them way more freedom to do

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Speaker 1: a lot more stuff after they were classified as information services. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then, uh, in two thousand and ten, the chair

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Speaker 1: of the SEC at the time, Julius Ganikowski, said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we've got some new regulations on the books.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna prohibit I s p s from blocking content online.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna prohibit what we call unreasonable discrimination, and they're

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Speaker 1: all gonna have to be a little more transparent about

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Speaker 1: what's going on. And this is in the era of

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Speaker 1: broadband now, right. Uh. And then Verizon stepped up and said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we don't like the sounds of this.

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Speaker 1: This is you guys are stepping way over your your

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Speaker 1: congressional power here. Yeah, they said, well, don't forget you

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Speaker 1: guys classified us as information services. You can't tell us

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Speaker 1: to to do or not do this stuff. We're not

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Speaker 1: telecoms anymore, suckers. Yeah, pretty much. Uh, And the d

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Speaker 1: C Circuit Cord of Appeals agreed with Verizon and this

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Speaker 1: is just inten so just a few years ago then

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Speaker 1: said those rules have got to go. As long as

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Speaker 1: you're classified that way, Uh, then you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: play by these rules. Right. But that changed again in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen when Tom Wheeler came along as

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Speaker 1: the chair of the FCC and he kind of flip flopped.

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Speaker 1: He came out initially and proposed some rules that people said, no,

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Speaker 1: that's like, that's way too weak, bra Right, Well he was.

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Speaker 1: They got leaked and there was a huge backlash in

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Speaker 1: public outcry against it. And but I don't think anyone

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Speaker 1: was surprised because Tom Wheeler was a longstanding UM lobbyist

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Speaker 1: for the cable and wireless industries, right, so he was

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Speaker 1: an industry insider who was supposed to be regulating that

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Speaker 1: that industry that he was already friends within, where his

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Speaker 1: background was, so nobody was really surprised when the FCC

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Speaker 1: came out with these really weakened rules on I s

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Speaker 1: p s. But there was a huge backlash. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was the first battle for the net. And then Wheeler

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Speaker 1: went whooa, whoa, whoa, I was just kidding, Um, here's

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Speaker 1: here's my real document. He didn't really say that, but

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Speaker 1: he came up with a new document with with bigger,

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Speaker 1: sharper teeth, and that was what you referenced earlier four

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Speaker 1: page document called the two thousand fifteen Open Internet Order,

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Speaker 1: which was a really big deal. And that was a

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Speaker 1: surprise because Wheeler, again who was a lobbyist for the

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Speaker 1: these very industries, um not only reversed course from these

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Speaker 1: toothless weak law rules to much stronger rules that were

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Speaker 1: in step with the what the net neutrality advocates were

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Speaker 1: asking for. He actually went even further and made even stronger,

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Speaker 1: tighter net neutrality rules and then took the time to

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Speaker 1: write something like three hundred pages of rules explaining the

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Speaker 1: logic and the thought behind all this, which could pose

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Speaker 1: a problem as we'll talk about later for a jeep

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Speaker 1: Pie and the Trump FCC to get past. But the

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Speaker 1: the it was a huge, huge surprise that came out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere in an enormous victory for net neutrality advocates

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Speaker 1: and for Obama and his administration. It became one of

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Speaker 1: the signature um acts I guess or watershed moments for

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration because he campaigned as a net neutrality supporter.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, you know, one year, the last year

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Speaker 1: of his presidency, his FCC just dropped the mic on

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Speaker 1: net neutrality and said it is it is done. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and within that Open Internet Order one of the first

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Speaker 1: I mean, it did a couple of big things, but

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Speaker 1: the big big thing it did was it said, hey,

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Speaker 1: remember way back in nine the Communications Act, we think

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Speaker 1: we can actually reclassify broadband as what we're gonna call

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Speaker 1: a title to telecommunication service. So remember earlier when we

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Speaker 1: said they split it up in the two buckets. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this all changed a couple of years ago when they

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Speaker 1: can now classify you know, Verizon, our Comcast as a

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Speaker 1: telecom service, which again means it's a common carrier and

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Speaker 1: much more heavily regulated. Yeah. So the SEC was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we can't tell you what to do if you're classified

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Speaker 1: as an information service, Well you're no longer classified. Is

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Speaker 1: that you're classify as a telecommunications service now and we

399
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Speaker 1: are up your rectum. It's so interesting that this like

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Speaker 1: we've seen the birth of this industry that like is

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Speaker 1: being figured out in full view. Well maybe not always

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Speaker 1: full view, right you know what I'm saying though, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's still it's still being molded right now. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting. So that was that was the first

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Speaker 1: thing that the two thousand and fifteen Open Internet Order did, right,

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Speaker 1: It reclassified the I s p s back to telecommunication status.

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Speaker 1: It really it took them out of the same league

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Speaker 1: as YouTube and Netflix and um all of these these

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Speaker 1: um content providers on the web and said, you guys

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Speaker 1: actually handle the nuts and bolts of it. You you

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Speaker 1: don't handle the actual content, So you're telecom now. Then

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Speaker 1: it did a second part two, which was basically saying

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Speaker 1: we're the net is now neutral. We're instilling net neutrality

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Speaker 1: values onto the Internet as the FCC. Yeah, and we'll

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Speaker 1: do so in three main ways. No blocking. You can't

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Speaker 1: block lawful content, can't block services, You can't block applications.

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Speaker 1: As long as it's lawful and legal content, you can't

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Speaker 1: block it. You can't throttle it. To me, throttling is

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Speaker 1: a weird word. It seems counterintuitive because through throttling, I

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Speaker 1: would think means you speed something up, but in this case,

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Speaker 1: it means you can't slow something down. Yeah, basically I

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Speaker 1: would say breaking, not throttling. Playing on, Yeah, but throttling

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Speaker 1: basically means, as a I s P. You can't come

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Speaker 1: in like we're talking about earlier and saying, uh, you

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Speaker 1: know what your competition Netflix to our Comcast services, So

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Speaker 1: we want to make sure no one can stream anything

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00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: very well, right, so we're gonna slow you down. And

428
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: then the final one was no paid prioritization, so yeah,

429
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: they can't. You can't pay someone to juice up your site,

430
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: right so that you can get an edge over the competition,

431
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: Which I mean like if Netflix is doing that to

432
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime, nobody's really shedding a tear. Like Amazon Primer

433
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: big kids, and they can handle themselves. But if you are,

434
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, developing the next streaming video app and you

435
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: don't have the money to to compete against Netflix, you're

436
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: that's that's a huge disadvantage and and it has been

437
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: pointed out as a potentially stifling to to new technology.

438
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: So um one of the things that the FCCS two

439
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen rules said, we're that I sps have to

440
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: behave in a quote just and reasonable manner. I think

441
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: you said that, right, No, I didn't. Okay, Well they do.

442
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: That's part of it. And they also said, hey, everybody

443
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: from YouTube to YouTube, uh, you guys, if you see

444
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: an I s P behaving in an unjust and unreasonable manner,

445
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: let us know, even if it's if it's not illegal,

446
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: if you think it's unjust and unreasonable, let us know,

447
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: and we will look into to it. And the I

448
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: s p s went, Oh, the f c C So

449
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: that was a really big thing. We'll we'll talk about

450
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: a little a little bit more about why it is

451
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: such a big thing in a in a minute. UM.

452
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: But then one of the other things that it did

453
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: too was it said this also applies to wireless providers

454
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: before in two ten, when the FEC introduced some the

455
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: some net neutrality rules that were challenged by Verizon and

456
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: court and were overturned by the court in two thousand fourteen. UM,

457
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: one of the things that they did was it exempted

458
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: wireless carriers wireless I s p s from these laws.

459
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: Again because they wanted to promote UM. They wanted to

460
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: promote growth in that industry. They're like, no one's ever

461
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: going to use their phone to stream content. I think

462
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: they were hoping that people would and that regulation might

463
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: hamper that. Right, So that kind of brings us up

464
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: to speed on where we are today. Uh enter uh

465
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: adject pie who was UM. He was a former lawyer

466
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: for Verizon and is the head of the SEC under Trump,

467
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: and he, like I said before, he favors what he

468
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: calls a light touch regulation, which is basically pre title

469
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:22,239
Speaker 1: to reclassification. Right that basically, if you are if you

470
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 1: are an I s P, you are going to be

471
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: subject to the laws of competition of capitalism and those

472
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: will keep you in line. And the SEC doesn't need

473
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: to be involved. And the more of that secs involved,

474
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: the more stifling these regulations will be. And um, basically

475
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: the whole Internet will break if the SEC is involved. Yeah,

476
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: and his theory. Watched a couple of interviews with him

477
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: and his theory. Very smart guy. His theory is that

478
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: if we deregulate and kind of make it wide open,

479
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: then people in uh I guess more rural areas of

480
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: the kind tree will benefit because if we have all

481
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: these regulations, it might stifle their internet, and we want

482
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: everyone to have like good fast internet, and he believes

483
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: that the way forward is through uh not regulating this stuff,

484
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: and he thinks that would lead to rural areas getting

485
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: like faster speeds. I don't see how that's I don't,

486
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't see how it's possible. Like, I

487
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: mean that just just by definition, fewer customers out there

488
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: means it's more expensive to lay that cable out to

489
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: those people. Well, I think his his argument is that uh,

490
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: investments in this infrastructure would would dry up because of

491
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: these rules, which in turn would like the first people

492
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: to lose out on that would probably be people in

493
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: rural areas. Like we're not gonna bother putting infrastructure in

494
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: these rural areas because it's not worth our time and effort. Uh,

495
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: you know that's what he's saying. So there's a there's

496
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: actually another thing that addresses that that's from the old

497
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: telephone days. I can't remember what it's called. It's like

498
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: a universal fund, but it's basically where everybody who has

499
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: a telephone line or gets service from an I s

500
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: p um paid like paid a little tax. Like if

501
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: you looked at your phone bill back in the day,

502
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 1: there would be a line item that said, like the

503
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: universal something fun and it was three cents or seven

504
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: cents or something like that, something you just couldn't care

505
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: less about. But put together in a pot for with

506
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: the seven cents from all the other phone users households

507
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: that had phones, you had a pretty decent amount of money.

508
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: And that money was was taken to goo to to

509
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: create infrastructure out to rural areas so that people out

510
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: in the sticks had telephones. There's a there's a bill

511
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: right now or a proposal in the FCC that was

512
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 1: proposed by the Wheeler FEC about creating that or continuing

513
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: that same thing, not broad with broadband, right, So, I

514
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: mean that's there's a solution right there. It's everybody paying

515
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: an extra few cents so that people out in rural

516
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: areas can get that kind of infrastructure, and it's the

517
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: taxpayers paying the I s p s to go lay

518
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: that cable for people in rural areas. Yeah, he also

519
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: says because one of the one of the things a

520
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: lot of people talk about are the harm that can

521
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: be caused by this deregulation and there are examples even

522
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: which will go here in a minute, but he called

523
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: those he calls those hypothesized harms and even UH said,

524
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: a solution that wouldn't work. Title two is a solution

525
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: that wouldn't work for a problem that didn't exist. So

526
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: when in this interview I saw an NPR when they

527
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: sat down and gave him examples of what can happen,

528
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: he said, well, this has happened. I'm not saying it

529
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: hasn't happened, he said, but these are are single examples.

530
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: And he said to me, it would have to be

531
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: that would have to be widespread evidence of this kind

532
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: of problem, uh, in order for this kind of regulation

533
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 1: to be enacted. Right, I got um, which you know

534
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't. Maybe it would be more widespread if there

535
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: was no regulation. So, well, that's the fear. That's another hypothesis.

536
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: I guess that that's the fear that that once you

537
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: you know, take the take take the bridle off of

538
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: the I s p s who you know, they're gonna

539
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: run rampant. And again, these are multinational companies that are

540
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: providing most of the access to the public Internet in

541
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: America and you know the Western world. So you it's

542
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: it's not foolish to think that they're going to very

543
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: quickly consolidate as much power as they can with the

544
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: new less restricted freedom, uh to do so that would

545
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: be given if you rolled back the two thousand fifteen rules.

546
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: And a lot of people point out too that if

547
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: you look at the period from five, while the I

548
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: s p s were classified as telecoms, the Internet still

549
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: boomed and flourished. We had a bubble, an internet um

550
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: stock bubble happened even pretty early on, and the Internet

551
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: as we know it today developed during that time. Uh

552
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: So the idea that it's stifling or would stifle that

553
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: growth classifying eyes pieces telecoms doesn't seem to hold much water. Well.

554
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: And when you talk about investment infrastructure, it kind of

555
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 1: depends on which studies you've looked at. Some have said

556
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: that it uh it has already. Um Like Pie pointed

557
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: to twelve. I think over the two year period since

558
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: the Title two went into effect, the twelve major carriers

559
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: have had five percent reduction and infrastructure spending. Um. And

560
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: then you can cheery pick another study that might say, well, yeah,

561
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: but these companies actually put in more money and invested

562
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: more money. So I think in either case, it's probably

563
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: a correlation and causation argument. You know, maybe you can't

564
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: necessarily say it's because of the the different classification, right,

565
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: and so the numbers we have are not so great

566
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: that there's this lobbying group called um U s Telecom,

567
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: and their numbers show that the infrastructure investing this is

568
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: new fiber cable or upgrades to existing cable being laid

569
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: in the United States, the broadband infrastructure that the spending

570
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: by the big twelve I s p s went down

571
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: by a billion dollars between two thousand and fourteen and

572
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, and the idea is that's because of reclassification.

573
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: The US Census Bureau said, actually, no, our numbers show

574
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: that between two thousand fourteen and two thousand and fifteen,

575
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: the spending on infrastructure went up by six hundred million.

576
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: Now that not that much, but it was an actual increase.

577
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: And this is really really important, Chuck, because if you

578
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: are looking at net neutrality in the battle over it

579
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: from a legal standpoint, infrastructure is going to be the

580
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: crux of the argument. Because there was a law passed

581
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: back in I can't remember what it's called, but it

582
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: basically bans federal agencies from making capricious rule changes, which

583
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: is basically like, for if exactly the situation that we're

584
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: in right now, you have one administration making one set

585
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: of rules and then a year or two later a

586
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: philosophically different in administration coming in and completely changing those rules. Well,

587
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: to do that that the new administration's regulators have to

588
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: prove why it's a it's a good idea to change

589
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: these rules. They can't just be capricious, right And so

590
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: observers of this whole battle that's going on right now

591
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: are saying, probably Pie is going to be using the

592
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: infrastructure um the drop and infrastructure investing as his reason why.

593
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: He's going to point to it and say, look, man,

594
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: this title to classification led to a billion dollar, five

595
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: billion dollars whatever billion dollar dropped in infrastructure investment. It

596
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: was a bad idea. We're going to reverse the rules.

597
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: And if he can do that, then the rules probably

598
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: will be changed and net neutrality will be rolled back.

599
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: But the figures aren't in yet for two thousand and sixteen,

600
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 1: so no one actually knows if overall spending on infrastructure

601
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: declined or increased or stayed the same, but that's probably

602
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: going to be the crux of the legal argument about

603
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: changing the rules back. You want to take a break, Sure, alright,

604
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, and hopefully we'll get to

605
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: hear Josh say lay the cable at least two more times.

606
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: That's why has that you should know? That's a should knows.

607
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: But Clark, all right, so we're back. Um, you're still

608
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: laughing at that. Huha. So before we move on, we

609
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: should say that this um uh, like we were saying

610
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: about websites going dark, the title two is up for

611
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: grabs again, essentially coming up soon and UH people are

612
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: being asked if you care about this one way or

613
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: the other. UM. You can leave your comments on restoring

614
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: Internet Freedom by going to FCC dot gov and you

615
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: click on file a Public comment, UM, and then you

616
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: click on preceding seventeen Dash one oh eight Restoring Internet Freedom,

617
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: and then you can tell them what you think about it. Yea,

618
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: And the comment in and of themselves have gotten a

619
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: lot of traction and pop popular culture. UM. Back in

620
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen, John Oliver UH did a piece on UM,

621
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: what's this show called this week tonight? Uh? Last week

622
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: tonight that's right, thank you. Um and he uh he

623
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: very famously called the battle over net neutrality cable comp

624
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: company Smurfrey, right and um he basically he said, everybody

625
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: go leave your comments about net neutrality, and the next

626
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: day the FCC's website broke under. It buckled under the strain. Uh.

627
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: And ultimately the FCC got something like three point seven

628
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: million public comments about the the the two thousand fifteen rules,

629
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: most of them in favor of them. Right. So, um,

630
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: the this time around, John Oliver has done another thing.

631
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: The internet broke again, but they think this time it

632
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: was actually a d E O S attack. It was

633
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: an attack, and there's also been evidence that uh, spam

634
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: bots are leaving um comments as well. Yeah. Wasn't there

635
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: like uh five million identical comments on the half a million?

636
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 1: Oh half a million? Yeah, there's been about five million total,

637
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: but they found like half a million from a spam box, right,

638
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: which were identical comments, uh with I mean, I think

639
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: they use real names and addresses, but including all the same. Yeah.

640
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: One of the persons whose name was stolen and used

641
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: by the spambot was a jeep pie himself. Yeah, and

642
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: this is what it said. It said, Um, the unprecedented

643
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: regulatory power by the Obama administration imposed on the Internet

644
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: is smothering innovation, damaging the American economy, and obstructing job creation.

645
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: The plan currently under consideration at the FCC to repeal

646
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: Obama's title to power grab is a positive step forward

647
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: and will help to promote a truly free and open

648
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: internet for everyone. Yeah. So it's it's just so interesting

649
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: to me that both sides want the same thing and

650
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: they just have two very different ideas on how to

651
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: go about it, and someone's right and wrong. Right, Well,

652
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: I think you know what's bizarre about this one. There's

653
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: there's three sides to it. There's two sides that are

654
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: opposed philosophically over the role of government and regulation, and

655
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: then there's a third side. The I s p s

656
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: were like, everybody, shut up, stop telling us what to do.

657
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: We want to just go make some money, and uh,

658
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: we want the FCC out of our butts. Yes, you know. Yeah,

659
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: So let's let's we've kind of hit on some of them,

660
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: but let's talk about what some of the arguments in

661
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: favor of net neutrality are, and then we'll talk about

662
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: some of the arguments against. Well, um, I guess the

663
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: first thing that we should point out is that it

664
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: actually will prevent censorship. Yeah, when that is what it

665
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: is feared, it won't happen. Yeah, there's we didn't say that.

666
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: The The name that a jeep pie and his f

667
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: CC came up with for their new rules is um

668
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: Restoring Internet Freedom Rules, which has kind of been accused

669
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: of being news speaker double speak because it it's it's

670
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: basically saying, like, you know, the FEC being involved in

671
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: this is was a power grab by the Obama administration,

672
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 1: and that by getting the FEC out of this whole thing, Um,

673
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: then we're actually protecting against censorship. That it was a

674
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: government grab of the Internet to try to start to

675
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: censor it, right, which is not the case. Well, I mean,

676
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: I guess it depends on how you feel about government regulation.

677
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, the saying that the two thousand and fifteen

678
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: rules allowed government censorship is patently wrong, That's what I meant.

679
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: And if anything, it prevents censorship by the I s

680
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: p s by preventing blocking and throttling. Yeah. Another thing

681
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: that um, some people, Uh it's weird. The arguments and

682
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: counter arguments all like use each other. Um, they'll say

683
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: that like, no, we we need the regulations so we

684
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: can promote uh, growth in this industry, not stifle it.

685
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: But when you have net neutrality in place, it keeps

686
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: that low barrier to just getting a website going. And

687
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: like like you said before, Um, we're at an age

688
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: now where anyone can design the next Facebook. Uh. And

689
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: if if let's say you needed half a million dollars,

690
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 1: like you've designed it and everything's great, but you need

691
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: to pay an I s P five grand to get

692
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: it going at a reasonable speed, then that'll that'll kill innovation, right.

693
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: I guess it depends on whose innovation you're stifling. If

694
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: you're looking at the I s p s as part

695
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: of the Internet, Um, well, then having the Internet thrive

696
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: and having new new, huge, massive traffic driving companies like

697
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: Facebook that get a lot of people to the Internet

698
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: to use it in the first place, that's an inherent good. Um.

699
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: But really what you're talking about is is keeping that

700
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: unregulated and regulating the I s P s. Um, So

701
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: I mean, what are you stifling? And the argument is

702
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: that you're stifling infrastructure investment, so like high speed cable

703
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: being laid by not by me. Uh. And then um,

704
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: you know, getting cable out to rural areas, that kind

705
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: of thing. Um, the I think when you when you

706
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: hear both sides using the same point to prove their case,

707
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: it means that BS is a foot somewhere. Another thing

708
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: that we touched on a little bit is like when

709
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: we said, hey, maybe Comcast as a cable company would

710
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: want to slow down or throttle Netflix. Uh, so you know,

711
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: it would not unleveled the playing field. The same can

712
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: be said of like a telephone company not wanting Skype

713
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: to become a thing or Internet phone to become a thing. Uh.

714
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: And so that is a genuine fear that behind the scenes, um,

715
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 1: that will be throttling going on. Yeah, and that's a

716
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: real legitimate fear for two reasons, Chuck. One that um,

717
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: it's the I s p s are starting to branch

718
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: out and getting into like you said earlier, um, the

719
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: content game. Yeah, the content game. Right. So so that's

720
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: that's rule one, or that's that's problem one. Like for

721
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: for for instance, Verizon just bought Yahoo and Yahoo owns

722
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: flicker and Tumbler, and Tumbler, by the way, used to

723
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: be at the at the forefront the tip of the

724
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: spear for net neutrality, um advocacy like they were loud

725
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: and proud man and then Verizon bought them and all

726
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Tumbler silent on the subject, right um.

727
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: But more to the point, since Verizon bought Yahoo, which

728
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: owns Flicker and Tumbler, it told all of its Tumbler

729
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: and Flicker users that have a Bell South associate or

730
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: a a T and T associated email address that they

731
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: weren't gonna be able to access their Flicker or Tumbler

732
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: accounts anymore until they created a new user I d

733
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: with a using a Yahoo email address. So that's fairly

734
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: anti competitive, you can make a case. And so that's

735
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: going on right now as I sps are starting to

736
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: get into the media game. But it's also happened in

737
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: the past plenty of times too. It's already happened. It's

738
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: been documented that when the I s p s are

739
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: free to to to be anti competitive, they take you

740
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: up on the offer. And Pie has responded to those

741
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: uh incidents, has isolated examples and not enough of a

742
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: reason to regular Yeah. His feeling is it has to

743
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: be a widespread problem for it to be a real issue. Yeah,

744
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's a position for sure, that's

745
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: a position. Yeah. Yeah, uh what about the case against

746
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: net neutrality? So again there's there's there's that whole investment

747
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: thing in infrastructure, which is that's big, that's legitimate, you know.

748
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean like if if the I s p s say, dude,

749
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: it's just we're not making enough money, we're not we're

750
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 1: really unhappy about this regulation. We're gonna stop putting money

751
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: into the American broadband infrastructure, then America will suffer as

752
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: a result. We want the highest, fastest speed infrastructure we

753
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: can get, and we rely on the I s p

754
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: s to build those and then charge us money for

755
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: access using those high speed routes. Right, That's what I

756
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: don't buy though, because they want they want the fastest internet,

757
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: because they want your business. They totally do. Right, Okay,

758
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: here's the thing, Like everybody when they're talking about this

759
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: seems to kind of dance around this. But yeah, dude,

760
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: the I s p s can make a lot of

761
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: money charging access. They make plenty of money, plenty of revenue.

762
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: But they're also again they're the gatekeepers. They they're the

763
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: ones who built this infratructure. They're the ones who have

764
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: this the access to this these networks built and these

765
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: these customer bases built, and if they are unhappy and

766
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: they want to be sour pusses about it, they can

767
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: stop investing in America's infrastructure and America will suffer as

768
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: a result. And again, these aren't necessarily companies that have

769
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: an office on Main Street in Kansas, in Topeka. They're

770
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: multinational companies and if they move their favor elsewhere, then

771
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: America could suffer. Right. It's we're somewhat hostages to their

772
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: their whims to an extent, but at the end of

773
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: the day, America is also one of the best markets

774
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: for broadband access and they want the money of American users,

775
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: so they are going to keep investing in infrastructure, I think.

776
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: But it's a gamble. And if you're if you're opposed

777
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: to federal regulation and principle, you're going to say that

778
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: gamble is not worth it. Like, I don't want to

779
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: put federal regulation on these guys if it's going to

780
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: make them unhappy because I don't like federal regulation. They

781
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: don't like federal regulation, and it could take them off

782
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: enough that America's infrastructure could start to sag. Here's the thing, though,

783
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: and I don't know much. I'm not an expert in this,

784
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: but my feeling is, wouldn't they have to all collude

785
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: and none of them do that, because as soon as

786
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: one of them starts, uh, one of them starts laying

787
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: the cable, like Josh Clark, then they'll have the advantage

788
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: and the other ones be like, we gotta start laying

789
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: the cable because they're getting a and getting faster. Well, yeah,

790
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: like they would all have to be in cahoots and say, well, hey,

791
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: let's all just sort of make a ton of money

792
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: and just say this is how fast the internet is now.

793
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 1: So here you just dug up another issue. It's totally

794
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: true if you have a lot of different I s

795
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: p s who have large, massive networks, if you have

796
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: those large I s p s suddenly starting to consolidate,

797
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: which they are, and you have fewer and fewer but

798
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger I sps they control larger parts of

799
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: the market, to where if you've got basically two major

800
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: I s p s competing against one another, they could

801
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: conceivably do that, and it would be tough for one

802
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: to just be like, no, I'm not doing that, I'm

803
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm laying all the cable. Um, I'm gonna take all

804
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: your your market share. It's possible that they could do that,

805
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: but it could also be likely that they would collude, um,

806
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: not necessarily in an illegal fashion, but just saying, you

807
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 1: know what, we both kind of agree America's the pits

808
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: right now, will wait until the winds change. Let's go

809
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: over to Ireland and invest in their infrastructure because they

810
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: got some cash and they don't feel like, um, like

811
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: regulating today. So it's not like, you know, I think

812
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 1: a lot of people think like, well, you know, this

813
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 1: is Trump's FCC, so they're just you know, automatically evil

814
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: and have no real point there. There are they They

815
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: do represent a viewpoint of anti regulation sentiment, right, but

816
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's another aspect to all of this

817
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 1: chuck that has kind of blown my mind. Um that

818
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 1: that it's just not talked about all that much. One

819
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: of the well, two of the things that that people

820
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: who are in the net neutrality debate are are talking

821
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: about and worried about are don't really actually exist any longer.

822
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: To major things. Yeah, so internet censorship and a equal

823
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: access to broadband networks that that's not around anymore. Neither

824
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: of those are around or an internet free from censorship,

825
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: I should say yeah, And I mean I don't know

826
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: censorship is the right word because that implies you have

827
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: no access at all. Um, but what search engines do,

828
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: and what apps do, and what Facebook and Google and

829
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: YouTube and everyone does in that game as they serve

830
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: things up to the public that are very much curated

831
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: according to their needs. I was gonna say whims, but

832
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 1: they're not whims. There their their needs as a company. Um,

833
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: So it's not like they're censoring things, but they certainly aren't. Uh,

834
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: I mean like that you can still find the things

835
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: on the Internet. They're not like deleting things and censoring things.

836
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: But they're definitely serving up uh like search engines, aren't

837
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: You know that they're definitely all just they're serving up

838
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 1: what they want to serve up because that serves their

839
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: company best. Whether yeah, whether it's like, um, you know,

840
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 1: content that's more likely to lead to data that they

841
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: can use to better target you for ads, or there

842
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: are some instances of very like actual censorship where Twitter

843
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: Twitter can take your tweet down if it's deemed defensive

844
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: that censorship. This book can do the same thing with

845
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: your posts that censorship. So there's a whole group of

846
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: stakeholders in this whole debate that, like the media companies

847
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: that do have the legal and technical ability to censor

848
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: the Internet, right, but giving the I s p s

849
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: the ability to censor the Internet doesn't make anything any

850
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: fairer or more even. It just makes things worse. Right,

851
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: So that's the idea that, well, these guys can alregue

852
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: sense of the Internet, so why shouldn't the I s

853
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: p s be able to? That's a terrible argument. Uh.

854
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 1: And one of the other big things that's already happening

855
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: is when we were talking about paying extra money to

856
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: get your content faster, that's already going on, right, So

857
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: they're already fast lanes essentially exactly. And that's not supposed

858
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: to be um, but but it's been going on for

859
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: a while. Yeah. And so Google and Netflix, um, among

860
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 1: other companies that basically have paid extra money to connect,

861
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: they've almost created like a side Internet by connecting their

862
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: routers and servers directly to the I s p S

863
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: network servers. Instead of saying, well, we'll just be routing

864
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: our traffic along with the rest of the Internet, they

865
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 1: they have essentially paid to have their own special fast

866
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: lane right exactly. And again, this has been going on

867
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: for years, and Google started it and we basically everybody

868
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 1: has yet and the rub there was a very famous

869
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: UM dispute about it that that made this whole concept,

870
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: it's called peering, made a public between Comcast and Verizon

871
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: and Netflix Netflix as users. And I remember this Netflix

872
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: was their Their transmission was degrading fast and Netflix had

873
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: to go to Verizon and Comcast and say I need

874
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: to peer network setup. I need to be able to

875
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: plug in directly. Here's a bunch of money. I hate

876
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: you guys, and they publicly accused at least Comcast, I

877
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: think of purposefully letting their traffic back up and not

878
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: rerouting it UM to make it go faster so that

879
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: Comcast would have to come and and and get give

880
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: them money. And now Verizon and UM Comcasts viewpoint is, well,

881
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: you guys are sending tons of traffic that you're charging

882
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: for our way without paying anything extra. Why should we

883
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: have to add, you know, an extra router server or

884
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: whatever to to accommodate this traffic when you guys are

885
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: the ones generating from generating it and profiting from it,

886
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: and so that's just kind of been like, uh that,

887
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's the part that part of

888
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: that philosophical divide too with net net neutrality, who's who

889
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: should be paying for the the increase in traffic? Well,

890
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: and not only that, but these these uh deals are

891
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: worked out between the companies and if the FCC sticks

892
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: their nose in it, then all of a sudden, they

893
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: are inserting their self in that process. Uh. And and

894
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: companies aren't liking the sounds of that either. Well, yeah,

895
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: like the the the market for this has been unregulated

896
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: and for the most part, companies have been okay with

897
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: it and fine with it. And the sps are happy

898
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: because their users are getting faster traffic. And Netflix or

899
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: say Amazon Prime is happy because their users are getting

900
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: to watch Game of Thrones faster. Right, But the fccs

901
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen rules say, well, we're involved than this now.

902
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: And remember we said that I s p s have

903
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: to act in a justin reasonable manner. So Netflix, now

904
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: under these two fifteen rules, if they try this again,

905
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: you can come and tell us that they're acting unreasonably

906
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: and we'll get involved. Which is another thing that a

907
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: jeepie wants to roll back because he doesn't think the

908
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: SEC has any any business getting involved in these transactions. Yeah,

909
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: it's um man, It's really a slippery slope on all

910
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: sides if you ask me for sure. But to me,

911
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: the whole thing boils down to do we do we

912
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: want to give I, s P S the the ability

913
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: the freedom to block traffic. I think I think of

914
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: them as the switchboard operators. I think conceiving of them

915
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: as common carriers as is absolutely right. And I think

916
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: I think giving them the ability to to censor, block,

917
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: or throttle traffic, I just think it's a bad move. Well.

918
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: I mean, one thing that has kind of been true

919
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: over and over throughout our history is that greed has

920
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: typically wins out when it's completely unregulated, and it has

921
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: led to bad things for the end user what whatever

922
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: industry that might be. Yeah, yeah, the companies might went out,

923
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: and but kind of greed, greed kind of doesn't lead

924
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: down the good path for average Joe sitting at his laptop.

925
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: I think that's true, man, And that is what it

926
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: boils down to, do we trust Do we trust them?

927
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: Do we trust them? There? You go to act fairly, Yeah,

928
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: let's leave it at that man, Well well done. Uh,

929
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about net neutrality while

930
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: you can get involved, and then you can also head

931
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: on over to FCC dot gov. And they also allow

932
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: comments from international people too. You don't have to be

933
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: an American, but you should check a box that says

934
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: you're international. You just put your name and address on

935
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: there and leave your comment and you can comment. Remember,

936
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: you can do that till July what Chuck, Yeah, I

937
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 1: think and then there's comments on the comments that runs

938
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: to August six, So go go let them know how

939
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: you feel one way or the other. And since I

940
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: said feel, it's time for a listener mail, Yeah, click

941
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: on the international box so it will go right into

942
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: the abyss of the Internet. I'm just kidding. I'm gonna

943
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: call this just a very concise stone Wall reaction. We've

944
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: got a lot of good feedback on our Remembering Stonewall episode,

945
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: and I think both of us feel pretty good about

946
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: that one. Great. Um. Hey, guys, I've listened to and

947
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: loved your podcast for years, but your recent Remembering Stonewall

948
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: episode compelled me to write you guys. As a gay man,

949
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: I thought, how can these two straight guys do justice

950
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: to my community's history a prejudice. I subsequently, I am

951
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: not proud of because you handled the subject so eloquently,

952
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: so understandingly. Very impressed on how well you tackled the subject, guys,

953
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: which shouldn't have surprised me since you handle every episode

954
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: so expertly, but since this subject hits so close to

955
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: home for me, was so very happy and proud with

956
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: the reverence that you gave it. Thank you, thank you,

957
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: thank you nice three, thank you, yeah three, thank yous.

958
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: Is that's the magic number, and that is from Craig. Craig,

959
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: thanks a lot for that. We appreciate it. We do

960
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: feel pretty good about that. Echo is interesting and good

961
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: and stirring and all that jazz. So hats off to

962
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: you right back. If you want to get in touch

963
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: with this, like Craig did, you can tweet to us

964
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: at Josh I'm Clark or s Y s K Podcast.

965
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook at Facebook dot com,

966
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: slash stuff you Should Know or slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant.

967
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at

968
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com and has always joined us

969
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know

970
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

971
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works? Dot com, m