1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I didn't realize what I 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: was dealing with when I first worked on a case 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: where a jogger goes missing. I remember her name, Julie 4 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: Love in Atlanta. At the time, I was a felony 5 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: prosecutor and inner City Atlanta. She had been out jogging. 6 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: She was a kindergarten teacher, and she couldn't be found. 7 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: The investigation was fierce, and at one point, finally her 8 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: glass eye was found. To look at her, you would 9 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: never even though she had a prosthetic eye, but she did, 10 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: and that cracked the case wide open. Since that time, 11 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: over and over and over we hear about usually women 12 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: who go missing or end up murdered while exercising. Julie 13 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: was murdered, and there have been thousands of women who 14 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: go missing or are murdered since that time. When I 15 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: first encountered that case, I did not realize that her 16 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: disappearance and death was just the tip of the iceberg. Now. 17 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: So one of the reasons I wrote don't be a 18 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: victim Fighting back. I guess America's crime wave. Crime Stories 19 00:01:51,080 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. One of the first chapters I worked 20 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: on was safe While exercising and joining me today is 21 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: the man whose daughter inspired me to spend months and 22 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: months researching and cultivating the information. Not to scare you, 23 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: but to arm you, to arm you with knowledge to 24 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: protect yourself and your family. My proceeds from this book 25 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: going to the National Center for Missing Unexploited Children. Take 26 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: a listen to this. Give me a sense for the 27 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: timeline that day. That's a day that I will never forget. 28 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: I started to worry, which was unusual. I had a feeling, 29 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: so I called her three times, didn't answer, and I 30 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: went out looking for her. The panic just immediately set in. 31 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: It didn't seem to make sense to me. There was 32 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: no sign of her. Four hours after Phil's phone calls, 33 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: pings from Karna's cell phone led him and police to Karina, 34 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: you found your daughter. I did, with the help of 35 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: the PD. As a parent, I have a hard time 36 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: even getting my arms around them. I think as a parent, 37 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: you would rather you find a child than someone else. 38 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: It's the last act of protection you can give you 39 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: a child. No parent should ever have to go through 40 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: what Phil Vatronto has been through with the death of 41 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:54,119 Speaker 1: his beautiful daughter Karina. With me today is Phil Vatronto 42 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: along with an all star panel to break it down 43 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: put it back together again. Doctor Bethany marsh psychoanalyst, joining 44 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: me out of LA. You can find her at doctor 45 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Kurknurmi, renowned defense attorney and author 46 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: of Trapped with miss Arius Parts two and three on Amazon. 47 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Online dot com investigative reporter. And Joseph 48 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 49 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon and now the new star 50 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. To everyone 51 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: joining us, thank you. I want to go first to 52 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: Karina's dad, Phil. You and I taught and talked and 53 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: talked when we were pushing the acceptance of familial DNA 54 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: to be used across the country, and you inspired me 55 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: to work on a brand new series coming out called 56 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: Bloodline Detectives, which deals with cracking cases with familial DNA. Yeah, 57 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm no I idea. How much do you have affected 58 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: my life and the lives of so many other people, 59 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: particularly writing this book. Thanks to you, Phil. I know 60 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: you don't enjoy talking about this, but in this book, 61 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: one of the main chapters is safe while exercising. Please 62 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: tell us about the day Karina went missing. Well, she 63 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: went alone. She went alone in a secluded area. I mean, 64 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: there were many factors that should have told me and 65 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: should have told her not to go, not to go 66 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: where she went, but she did. And I had a 67 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: little intuition before she went. I told her, I don't 68 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: think it's a good idea, and she said, don't worry, Daddy, 69 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: I'll be okay. And she went off, you know, a 70 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: hundred yards from my house. She went into a trail 71 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: and it was a trail you had run many many 72 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: times with her. In fact, you guys normally ran together 73 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: like I would exercise with my dad for years and 74 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: years and years together. Yes, yes, we ran that trail 75 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: just the Saturday prior to the tours day when when 76 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: she was murdered. So what three days three days before? 77 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall, Phil who I consider not 78 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: only as a colleague but a dear friend. Now he 79 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: and his wife who have just been to Hell and back. 80 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,559 Speaker 1: Did you hear what he said, Bethany, Because he said, 81 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 1: and you know what I want to ask you, because 82 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: I've asked you this before, he said, I had an intuition. 83 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: I told her I don't think you should go today, 84 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: and she said, I'll be fine, daddy, and left that 85 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: intuition And I can't explain it, but maybe you can, Nancy. Yes, 86 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: we have a certain way of knowing that bypasses the 87 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: right lateral part of the brain, the part that is 88 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: responsible for language and speech and reading and all of that, 89 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: there's a whole other part of our consciousness that is 90 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: what we call prescient. It can help us to look 91 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: into the future and see what might happen. We could 92 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: call it psychic or having good judgment, intuition, whatever you 93 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: want to call it. We all have it. And this 94 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: book you're writing, you know safe while exercising. I would say, 95 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what your research showed, but that following 96 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: your intuition is the number one thing that you need 97 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: to do. Phil had a bad sense. He did tell 98 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: his daughter and she went anyway. And the sound who 99 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: played earlier about him finding wanting to wishing that he 100 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: could have found his daughter. That it's a final act 101 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: of safety. I mean he had it from the moment 102 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: she went to exercise. And wait till you hear this 103 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: Bethany Pheel Carina had been gone for I don't know, 104 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: twenty thirty minutes, and you had another overwhelming feeling. What 105 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: was it? Something was wrong. I was just sitting in 106 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: the are and just watching the lose my dinner, and 107 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: then this feeling just came over me. First it was slight, 108 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: and then it got stronger and stronger, like something was amiss. Now, 109 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: it was only twenty twenty five minutes after she left. 110 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: She shouldn't even been back yet. But I called her 111 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: and she didn't answer. I called her one minute later 112 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: and she didn't answer. I called her two minutes after 113 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: that and she didn't answer, and I gave out a yell. 114 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: Was a curse on the end of it. And my 115 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: wife had just came back from a dollar moret surgery. 116 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: I just picked her up at the hospital and she 117 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: was up in bed as she heard me yelling, she said, 118 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: what's the matter, And I said, Couena is not answering 119 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: the phone. I'm going out. She didn't even know care 120 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: anyone out. Oh how is that? You know? She didn't 121 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: even know what she went out last time she saw her. 122 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: She just came home from the hospital. She went upstairs 123 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, she hears She's dead. 124 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about 125 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: the disappearance and the murder of a beautiful, beautiful and 126 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: brilliant young woman, Karina v Toronto. But she is not 127 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: the only one. I'm not saying that women shouldn't go exercise. 128 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: I do it every day if I can. And I'm 129 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: not saying don't wear a sports bra, don't wear tides. No, 130 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that's so miss Bogenists. But there 131 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: are ways for you to protect yourself. Don't be a 132 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: statistic I talk about it after so much. Took me 133 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: two years to research and write this book for you. 134 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: This is based on cases I investigated, thousands of them, 135 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: cases I personally tried, in cases I have personally covered, 136 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: including Carina Vatrano's case. Listen to this. Her body was 137 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: discovered just fifteen feet away from a trail that she 138 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: and her father ran together nearly every day, but back 139 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: pain forced him to stay at home the afternoon she 140 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: was killed. The retired firefighter now has a message of 141 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: his own for the attacker. Justice will be served. On Friday, 142 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: detectives discovered a sneaker and headphones near the crime scene 143 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: and sent them in for testing in the hopes of 144 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: finding fingerprints or DNA evidence. Meanwhile, the Toronto's devastated parents 145 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: lead their daughter to rest Saturday. Her casket was met 146 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: with salutes as hundreds gathered for the funeral. Even actor 147 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: Donnie Walber took a moment this weekend to remember her, 148 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: writing on Twitter, I've met thousands of amazing New Yorkers 149 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: while filming Bluebloods. None were as kind as Karina Vatranto. 150 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: So many people attended Saturday's funeral service, so they had 151 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: to set up speakers outside where people were standing. Anyone 152 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: with information will now get a ten thousand dollar reward 153 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: for information that leads to an arrest. If we can stop, 154 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: if we can prevent one person from being attacked while exercising, 155 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: this will all be worth it. Now you can hear 156 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: with us today feel Vatronto speaking so calmly, so coherently, 157 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: but as it always been that way. Take a listen 158 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: to our friend Lindsay Davis at ABCGMA, just one day 159 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: laying their thirty year old daughter Karina to rest. Both 160 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: of her parents spoke publicly, but it was her mother 161 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: who had some especially blistering words. To stress her point. 162 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: She started off by taking off her sunglasses and telling 163 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: everyone to look in her eyes as she could address 164 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,119 Speaker 1: the man directly that she called a coward. I guarantee 165 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: you you will pay forever a mother's unbridled pain and 166 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: anguish on full display done. We're going to have a 167 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: faith to the piece of garbage that you are. On 168 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: Sunday afternoon, Kathy Patrono shared this chilling message to the 169 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: person who killed her daughter, Corina. The whole entire world 170 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: knows what a pathetic, puny, weak piece of filth that 171 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: you are. These words are the first we've heard from 172 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: Viatronto's family since thirty year old was found dead less 173 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: than a week ago. You were hearing Karina's mother speaking out, 174 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: lashing out. But I can tell you during the trial 175 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: of Karna's killer, an attacker, there were times she had 176 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: to be helped to carry, to almost carry her, lift 177 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: her to walk out of that courtroom. She was so 178 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: racked with pain hearing the evidence. I remember she was 179 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: actually holding onto I thought she was kissing a crucifix 180 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: for strength to get her through the trial. Now you'll 181 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: hear her father, Phil Vatrono, describe how healthy, how physically fit. 182 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: And if you go on crime online dot Com, look 183 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: at Karna Vatronto. She looks like she works out every day, 184 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: very strong. Listen to Chris Hanson Crime Watch, Deli and 185 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: Boys tells me what they found made even a hardened 186 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: detective turn away. Give me a sense for the injuries 187 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: Karina summer facial injuries. She also had bruising on her body. 188 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: We believe from being dragged through those weeds LB area. 189 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: So that's who we believed where that bruising on her 190 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: body came from. And when you found her, she was 191 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: still grasping to the weeds. She had the weeds, stems 192 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: of the weeds in her hands. What does that tell 193 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: you she thought not to go into those weeds. Karina's 194 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: dad took me to that jogging trail and Howard Beach 195 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: where police found his beautiful daughter. I don't know if 196 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: this person was waiting for her. I don't know if 197 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: this person was following her. Philips Rono, your daughter. You 198 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: would think, because she was so physically fit, she could 199 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: have fought back and won. Right. Well, man, shoot, I 200 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: have to tell you Karina. For those who don't know 201 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: it was four eleven, one hundred pounds. She looked extremely fit, 202 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: and she was. But when someone outweighs you by fifty 203 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: pounds and as a foot toiller, and this is the key, 204 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: he sucked punched her. He hit her from behind. She 205 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: was passing him, you know, not probably giving her second thought, 206 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: and then he turned on her. So she was definitely 207 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: if I was a fan fight, she would definitely have 208 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: gotten away. But he suckered her, and he did outweigh 209 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: her and was a foot toiller. Then her four eleven's 210 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: a little baby. The man who attacked and killed her. 211 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: Channel Lewis had been spotted in the neighborhood before, walking 212 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: around with I think it was a crowbar, looking in 213 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: cars and homes. A police officer saw him. There wasn't 214 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: enough cause to arrest him for anything, but he made 215 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: a note in his police notebook, and because of that note, 216 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: when the trail went dead and finding Karna's killer, that 217 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: notebook was resurrected, and that person, Chanelle Lewis turned out 218 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: to be Karina's killer. You are hearing her dad describing 219 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: how physically fit she was, but she was no match 220 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: for a guy that snuck up on her and Sucker 221 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: punched her. Would you say, let me go out to 222 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: Kirk Nurmi. This is or now defense attorney that very 223 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: often in cases like this, the woman is taken by surprise. 224 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: It's more like a crime of opportunity. You don't always 225 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: think of the defendant lurking waiting on an empty stretch 226 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: of road, waiting for somebody to run by. They see 227 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: the person and attack, right, I mean, I think you're right, Nancy. Sadly, 228 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: we have a lot of people in the of this 229 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: mindset that are looking kind of looking for that crime 230 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: of opportunity. He right, this is why he's lurking around 231 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: the cars, This is why he has a crowbar, this 232 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: is why he's doing this. He's looking for these opportunities, 233 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: and when it came, he decided to take advantage of it, 234 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, is to play out 235 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: his sick, twisted game. And this is exactly what happened. 236 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: Because we have to be and this is why we 237 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: have to be aware that there are people like this 238 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: all around us that require us to be conscious of 239 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: everything and every place that we're at. And as it 240 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: turned out to doctor Bethany Marshall, this guy Chanelle Lewis 241 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: had a very deep seated hatred of women. But how's 242 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: Krona is supposed to know that she passes a guy 243 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: and has no idea who this guy is. Just like 244 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: when I go walking or jogging or biking, I don't 245 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: know who I'm passing. Nancy, a deep seated hatred for women. 246 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: Probably a serial killer in the making, serial rape fist, 247 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: somebody who actually has a compulsion to torture and to kill. 248 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: That who's who Chanel was. And if you think about 249 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: the fact that he was walking around the neighborhood with 250 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: a crowbar looking in cars, that speaks to somebody who 251 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: is so preoccupied with doing damage to another human being 252 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: that that is their only motivation in life. So Corina 253 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: didn't have a chance once she passed this guy on 254 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: the trail. He had been practicing for this moment for 255 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: months and perhaps even for years. They practiced, they think 256 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: about it, they fantasized about it. So the victim has 257 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: no chance. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, we've been talking 258 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: about Karina Vatrano and how to protect yourself when you're exercising. 259 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: Do you remember the name Molly Tibbitts, I do listen 260 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: to our friends at w o I TV five Des Moines. 261 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: This is not like her. Dalton Jack is living in 262 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: a nightmare. I figured i'd speak to her in an 263 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: hour or so, and right now it's one he can't 264 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: wake up from. I came home as soon as her 265 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: mom said that she called the hospital and she wasn't there. 266 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: The last time the twenty year old saw Molly was 267 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: on Wednesday at ten pm when he opened a snapchat 268 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: from her. It was just a selfie with the caption 269 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: and I don't remember what the caption said, but it 270 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: looked like she was inside. He never thought he wouldn't 271 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: hear from her again. When he said her early Thursday morning, 272 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: he didn't notice the message hadn't been read until her 273 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: friend called late that afternoon. One of her co workers 274 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: called me, said Molly had not called in to work 275 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: that day and she hadn't showed up. And then I 276 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: looked at the messages and she hadn't opened or read 277 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,239 Speaker 1: any of them. So I started getting in contact their 278 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: friends and her family, saying, hey, have you seen her? 279 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: Have you heard from me? Of course, the boyfriend is 280 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: always the first place you look at when a woman 281 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: goes missing. That was not the case with Molly Tibbots. 282 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend at ABC, Alex Perez. 283 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: The search for missing Molly Tibbots has come to a 284 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: tragic end today. A body was discovered early this morning 285 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: in a farm field southeast of Brooklyn, Iowa. We believe 286 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: it to be the body of Molly Tippots. She was 287 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: found in a cornfield and there were cornstocks placed over 288 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: the top of her and tonight a suspect in custody, 289 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: twenty four year old Christian Rivera. Police a Rivera led 290 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: them to her body this morning and confessed to her murder. 291 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: The case will be prosecuted by the Iowa Attorney General's 292 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: Area of Prosecution Division, and first degree murder carries a 293 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: penalty of life without the possibility of parole. According to authorities, 294 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: Rivera encountered Molly Tibbots near the intersection of Boundary and 295 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: Middle Streets in eastern Brooklyn while she was out Johnkie. 296 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: He actually tells us that he ran alongside of her 297 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: or behind her, and then at one point he tells 298 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: us that Molly grabbed a hold of her phone and said, 299 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: you need to leave me alone. I'm going to call 300 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: the police. And then she took off running. He in 301 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: turn chased her down. This shows that no matter where 302 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: you are, there are people around predators. Just like out 303 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: on the serengetti. When you think of the gazelle joining 304 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: each other at the water, the side of the water, 305 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: and in the distance, there lurks a predator waiting for 306 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: one gazelle to be the slowest. We're talking about safe 307 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: while exercising, and I want to go to you, Joe 308 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. I also say, as much as I've done 309 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: it because of my schedule, try not to run at 310 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: night or at night fall. Molly Tibbots was running around 311 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,239 Speaker 1: night fall. Also, I say take id, whether it's your 312 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: driver's license, library card, a scrap of paper stuffed down 313 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: your sports brawl with your name, address and number when 314 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: you need help. This helps first responders identify who you are. 315 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: I also tie my key into my shoelaces in my 316 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: hands are totally free. And don't put earbuds in your ears. 317 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: Don't do it. Phil was Karina jogging with earbuds? Yeah 318 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: she was, and she always did you know she had 319 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: a music playing. She was oblivious to what was going 320 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: around around her situation. She often described in her writings 321 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: how she would put her earbuds in and hit the 322 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: pavement and all the bs that happened during the day 323 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: would all fade away. So she was actually in a 324 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: very spiritual place at that time, you know she was, 325 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: she was with gone. You know, we're not happy. You know, Phil, 326 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: I do it too. I wrought jog or run or 327 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: walk with earbuds, and I've quit since I met you 328 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: and learned about Karina because one of the last video 329 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: surveillance it was her jogging by and you can distinctly 330 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: see I think it was a chord from earbuds. All 331 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: of this so important to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics. 332 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: When Molly Tibbitts was found, no ID, nothing on her. 333 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: We know the perp came up beside her, kept kind 334 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: of jogging beside her. She said, go away or I'll 335 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: call police. That pushed him over the edge. Why is 336 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: it so important to have some kind of ID on you. Well, 337 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: obviously you want to, you know, have have proof of 338 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: who you are relative to the people that you're going 339 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: to encounter on the road. But in Molly's case, you know, 340 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: I sit there and I think about this guy was 341 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: literally laying in wait for her. He is a predator. 342 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: Just like with Phil's beautiful daughter, This guy, the scumbag, 343 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: was a totally incomplete predator. And what happens, unfortunately many times, 344 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: is you have what's referred to as asymmetry with these 345 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: with these attacks, you've got people that are in a 346 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: dominant position over somebody that's in a very weakened state. 347 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: They see them, they go after them, and unfortunately they 348 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: wind up ripping them to shreds. Another out of pages 349 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: and pages of pages of tips for you that I've 350 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: gleaned from cases, some of which you're hearing about today. 351 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: Don't leave home. Don't get angry, because nobody ever tells 352 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: us to men, But don't leave home without letting someone 353 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: know you're heading out, whether it's day or night. Texts, 354 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: call email, somebody you trust. I'm going jogging. I remember 355 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: so many nights before the twins were born. I would 356 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: get home from doing my program at h l N 357 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: plus Larry King. After that, that would be ten o'clock 358 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: at night. I would get home and then go jogging 359 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: on the East River in New York at say eleven 360 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: ish o'clock. That is crazy talk, but nobody could tell 361 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: me different. I would, however, take my phone with me, 362 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: not use earbuds, and would text somebody and let them 363 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: know where I was going. Do you remember, Joe Scott Morgan, 364 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: When Molly first went missing, a lot of people thought 365 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: she was last at the home of her boyfriend who 366 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: was out of town doing online homework, because she had 367 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: posted a picture or something like that of her there 368 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: doing homework. So a lot of people thought she had 369 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: gone jogging and come back because no one knew where 370 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: she was or that she was going jogging. You remember that, 371 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: Joe Scott? Yeah, I do, Dancy, and I remember at 372 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: the time you and I were actually covered in this 373 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: case together when Molly disappeared, And do you recall also, 374 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: there were all of these signs she was Do you 375 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: remember people were spotting her in like four or five 376 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: different states, far flung areas, and all the while there 377 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: her body lay in that cornfield after weeks, after weeks, 378 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: where this guy had placed her there, and no one 379 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: had any idea where she had wound up. You know. 380 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: Phil Vatronto, father off Karina Vatronto, often called the Long 381 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: Island Jogger. Phil. When I think about Chanel Lewis and 382 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: his hatred of women, and the guy that murdered Molly Tibbitts. 383 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: Remember he had put Molly in his trunk, yes, and 384 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: then he said he looked down and saw blood on 385 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: his hands and went, oh, yeah, she's in my trunk 386 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: and went and hid her in a cornfield. That guy's 387 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: not in sign that his total b s. He murdered 388 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: her and he had the wherewithal to go hide her 389 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: body and stay quiet as a search for her raged 390 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: on around him. And my point being, you look around, 391 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: you don't know who's legit and who was like Chanelle Lewis, Well, 392 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: there were signs. There were a lot of signs. I 393 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: mean he was he was, excuse me. And when he 394 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: was in high school, you know, he actually got put 395 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: into a special school for a troubled students, for troubled children, 396 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: for troubled kids because he had behavioral issues and he 397 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: was doing well in high school. But when he got out, 398 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: his family dropped the ball. He no longer went to therapy, 399 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: he no longer took his medication, and they just used 400 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: to let him roam the streets at night. He was 401 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: a chicking time bomb. That's exactly right. You said it 402 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: exactly gree Way, that's where he was, and you mentioned 403 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: it before. He was definitely a serial killer. In the 404 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: making Crime Stories with Nancy Grace guys two years and 405 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: literally thousands of individuals, whether they were part of investigations, 406 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: prosecutions or cases that I covered. People I met that 407 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: changed the course of criminology, like Phil Vatrano, are all 408 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: in this book. My proceeds going to National Center Missing 409 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: Exported Children. Don't be a victim. Fight back against America's 410 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: crime wave. Fight back against the Chanel lewis Is of 411 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: this world lying in wait. You have heard about Carina, 412 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: You've heard about Molly. Listen to this. A murdered Midlothian 413 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: woman was remembered as a devoted mother who motivated others. 414 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: Forty five year old Missy Beavers was found dead inside 415 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: Creekside Church of Christ's last Monday. Police say she was 416 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: ambushed and died from a blow to the head. At 417 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: her funeral yesterday and walks a Hatchee. Family and friends 418 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: described Beavers those she loved her for fitness. First, she 419 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: was alom, she was just she was a mom, and 420 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: she loved everybody, and she loved her husband a babysit 421 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: when they had date night, and this is just very difficult. 422 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: Police are still looking for the person who killed Missy Beavers. 423 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: Midlothian Police released more surveillance video Friday of the person 424 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: walking around Creekside Church of Christ wearing police tactical gear. 425 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: That person is believe to be the one who killed Beavers. Well, 426 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: of course it is here. You've got Missy Beavers, a 427 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: mom of several little, beautiful little girls. She was teaching 428 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: gladiator training classes. This woman is so fit and where 429 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: else could you be safer. She's in a very small town, Midlothian, Texas, 430 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: and she goes to teach the class at the church 431 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: at about four or five o'clock in the morning so 432 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: other moms can come and work out before they take 433 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: their children to school. She is attacked in the church 434 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: and murdered. You were listening to our friend Justin Shannon 435 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: Murray at KDFW Fox four talking about the death of 436 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: this mom, Missy Beavers, straight out to Dave Mattcrime online 437 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what happened in the Missy Beavers case. 438 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: It's still open, Nancy. It's one of those I hate 439 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: to call a murder a mystery, okay, like it's some 440 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: kind of entertainment. What happened here is there was surveillance 441 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: video inside the church. As you mentioned, Missy Beavers was 442 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: there to teach a class. She arrived at four twenty 443 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: that morning to the church. By five oh six she'd 444 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: been murdered. On that surveillance footage, police were able to 445 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: see some person I can't even say it's the man. 446 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: It was an individual approximately five foot two to five 447 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: foot six, dressed in tactical gear. Police swat tactical gear 448 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: at about three fifty that morning, roaming the hallways of 449 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: this church. We know that Missy got there at four twenty, 450 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: and we know at some point in time Missy came 451 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: in contact with this individual walking around that church, breaking 452 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: windows and doing other assorted things. And by five oh 453 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: six that morning, her students taking her exercise class called 454 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: nine one because she was dead. Ye. That goes back 455 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: to when Carina or Molly they were jogging on their 456 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: own an isolated area. Here, Molly, Missy Beavers is going 457 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: into a completely empty church at a very odd hour 458 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: when no one is out in about four o'clock in 459 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: the morning, This does not mean you have to stop 460 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: living the life the way you live it, but be careful. 461 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: For instance, if you have to run at night, minimize 462 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: your risks to a route you've run before so you 463 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: know the pitfalls and the danger areas. If you can 464 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: run in a neighborhood of homes, why because most likely 465 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: people are home, not in a rural area, which I've 466 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: done many times, where there's nowhere to run too. I 467 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: remember when the woman I started this program with, Julie Love, 468 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: was out jogging. She realized she was being followed, so 469 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: she ran up to a house. It was in the 470 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: middle of the day, nobody was home, but she pretended 471 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: to be going in the home. Her purps waited until 472 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: she came out, and that's when they attacked her. But 473 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: you've got a better chance in a neighborhood of houses 474 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: that you can't approach. If long work hours make it 475 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: impossible to run during the day, just consider working home, 476 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: out at home or at a gym. To fill the 477 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: Toronto Karina's father. Here, you've gotten Missy Beavers, who, for 478 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: Pete's sake, taught gladiator classes. Have you seen a picture 479 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: of her her biceps? I bet they're bigger than yours, 480 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: filled the Toronto and you are fit. I mean this 481 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: woman was so buff. If it had been a fair fight, 482 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: she would have won. I'm telling you, just like with Corina, 483 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: no matter how fit you think you are, you're not 484 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: a match for somebody that takes you by surprise, comes 485 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: up from behind, or sucker punches you. That's why the 486 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: only way you can fight Bat is to follow tips 487 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: and be careful. Now, speaking of your route, I don't 488 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: know if this name rings a bell to you, but 489 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: it does to me. Ali Bruger take a listen to 490 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: our friends at w x y Z seven Detroit. It 491 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: was on a Saturday afternoon in July when thirty one 492 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: year old Ali Bruger was abruptly shot and left for 493 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: dead during a routine ten mile run on fish Lake 494 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: Road in Holly. Three years since her passing, and her 495 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: parents say the pain of losing their only child hits 496 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: just as hard today as the day they learned she 497 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: would never come home, and says happened our life. There's 498 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: no Jilly, just nothing. Her mother, Nikki, still drives her 499 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: daughter's old red Hundai as a way, she says, to 500 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: keep her close, while her father struggles to face a 501 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: new normal. You think maybe she's on vacation of something, 502 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: she's at work, and so on. Don't you don't really 503 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: think about it that she's gone for good. She worked 504 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: hard to be a nurse, she worked hard to Thomas 505 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: complete that master's um, and for somebody to just snuff 506 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: out her life like that, just for what reason? I 507 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: need to know why the case still unsolved. Ali had 508 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: gone running on a Saturday was July thirty, twenty sixteen, 509 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: and this is significant. It was a familiar route. She 510 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: had been jogging almost every day for the past ten years. 511 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: It was two thirty broad, a daylight, herself, no theft, 512 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: no rate that we know of. What was the motive 513 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: she was gunned down on this route? And that is 514 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 1: why I advise change your route. You know, every day 515 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: when I go jogging or running, I turn the same way. 516 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: I always turn left, I do the same loop. Once 517 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: in a while I take a different route home. That's 518 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: totally not a good idea. Explain it, Joseph Scott Morgan. 519 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: You know, people will become particularly if you you know, 520 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: I used the word predator a few moments ago, Nancy. 521 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: The idea is that these people watch. They watch for 522 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: recurrent patterns. You know you mentioned the gazelle at the 523 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: watering hole. They watch to strike at any moment in time, 524 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: and by not readjusting, they can time what you're gonna do, 525 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: day after day after day, and no wait till it's 526 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: at their advantage to strike when no one else is around. 527 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: By varying that pattern, you throw them off. You don't. 528 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: They don't know where you are when you're going to 529 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: leave the house. This was a predictable route that Ali 530 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: Brugger took every single day. Now her parents not only 531 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: are left wondering what happened, but are waiting for justice 532 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: to play out. This book is not to scare you. 533 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 1: This book is based on thousands of cases compiled together 534 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: to arm you with evidence that may save your life. 535 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: You know what, after my fiance's murder, my life didn't 536 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: mean very much to me. I would do anything, regardless 537 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: of the risk. But now that I have the twins, 538 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: I'm dedicating my life to protecting them as long as 539 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: I can, and that means having a mother. Don't be 540 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: a victim. Fight back. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, 541 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,