Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing
Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world to business and finance,
Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all partnessing the power of Business
Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and
Speaker 1: analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You
Speaker 1: can also listen to our radio show at two pm
Speaker 1: Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube
Speaker 1: search Bloomberg Global News. There's a lot going on, as
Speaker 1: there is every day when it comes to COVID nineteen
Speaker 1: and the vaccine, watching the impact though that COVID is
Speaker 1: having on public health, specifically Dr Jessica Holzer, Assistant Professor
Speaker 1: in Health Sciences and Director of Public Health at the
Speaker 1: University of New Haven, with us on the phone from
Speaker 1: new Haven, Connecticut. Doctor holds, are nice to have you here,
Speaker 1: How are you? I'm all right, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: What's good to have you here? A lot going on
Speaker 1: is there is always in our world, but in particular
Speaker 1: when it comes to COVID, and I think we continue
Speaker 1: you to assess, minute by minute, two steps forward, one
Speaker 1: step back, where are we going? How do you see it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think, Um, even though it might feel like
Speaker 1: two steps forward one step back, I think it's really
Speaker 1: important to keep focused on the fact that we are
Speaker 1: in a much different place today than we were a
Speaker 1: year ago when we were facing some of these other
Speaker 1: return to school questions and return to work questions. We
Speaker 1: do have a vaccine available for people twelves and older. Um,
Speaker 1: and that really sets a tone for what's possible. Because
Speaker 1: we have a vaccine, and because we have enough supply
Speaker 1: now anyone who can get vaccinated, that creates a really
Speaker 1: important avenue for an additional layer of protection. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so I think that really has changed where we are,
Speaker 1: what dance we're dancing now. Um. It's important to recognize
Speaker 1: that the delta variant is a different variant than the
Speaker 1: alpha variant in terms of how the vaccines are effective.
Speaker 1: But even though there seems to be some less effectiveness
Speaker 1: for vaccines, they're still very effective relative to not being
Speaker 1: vaccine at it. And I think that's an important point
Speaker 1: for us. But getting more vaccines out there safe to say,
Speaker 1: is a key activity that needs to be done to
Speaker 1: make sure that this virus doesn't essentially mutate to a
Speaker 1: variant that doesn't react or isn't taken care of by
Speaker 1: the current plate of vaccines exactly. So, the longer that
Speaker 1: we have unvaccinated population, So this includes kids, which is
Speaker 1: why it's still a very high priority for the vaccine
Speaker 1: distributors and vaccine manufacturers to take into account the kids
Speaker 1: under the age of twelve. But we see that particularly
Speaker 1: for that twelve or thirty five population, We see that's
Speaker 1: a population that still has substantially lower vaccination rates than
Speaker 1: population is older than thirty five, and especially the sixty
Speaker 1: six and above population. And it's important to recognize that
Speaker 1: they are going to be the students in schools in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, um, both in middle school, high school,
Speaker 1: and in college that are going to be prevented with
Speaker 1: opportunities to in that communal setting and continue to infect
Speaker 1: one another and to serve as Petrie dishes who are
Speaker 1: new variants. Uh. And so this delta variant has come
Speaker 1: about in part because of selection pressure, which is just um,
Speaker 1: you know, which which variant can survive in the environment
Speaker 1: the most, and a variant that's going to be able
Speaker 1: to avoid vaccination and be able to um repopulated people
Speaker 1: who are unvaccinated. That's going to be the variant that's
Speaker 1: going to become dominant, as we've seen with Delta. So
Speaker 1: avoiding future variant Lambda and others is going to essentially
Speaker 1: depend on us getting as many people vaccinated as possible,
Speaker 1: getting that vaccine rollout globally, and really trying to reduce
Speaker 1: the available population who is at risk for developing COVID
Speaker 1: and therefore would be at risk for COVID replicating into
Speaker 1: new variants and new variants coming to the floor. What
Speaker 1: do you say to parents who come up to you
Speaker 1: and say, my kids are going back to school. I'm
Speaker 1: a little nervous, they're too young to get the vaccine.
Speaker 1: How should we proceed? Yeah, so I am a parent
Speaker 1: of a child too young to get the vaccine, who
Speaker 1: is herself dealing with those questions though they are very pertinent,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's essential to those parents to recognize that
Speaker 1: the more adults around those children who are vaccinated, the
Speaker 1: safer those children will be. So my child is unable
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated, she just turned for and the way
Speaker 1: that I'm protecting her is that every single adult she
Speaker 1: interacts with is vaccinated. I'm making sure they're vaccinated. I'm
Speaker 1: making sure that they are still practicing safe practices. So
Speaker 1: even if they're vaccinated, I'm asking questions with respect to
Speaker 1: where have they've been traveling, what have their activities? Then
Speaker 1: are they possibly someone who has been exposed to someone
Speaker 1: who had the delta variant? Because we are seeing that
Speaker 1: there are some breakthrough infections for vaccinated individuals. So those parents,
Speaker 1: you know, advocate as much as possible for masking. UM.
Speaker 1: Masking your own child is really important, but it's very
Speaker 1: very essential that if other children are unmasked, like trying
Speaker 1: to get that you place. I know, this is a
Speaker 1: source of some real political friction. And so nevertheless, parents
Speaker 1: have a lot of power to demand masking among their
Speaker 1: schools and those sorts of places. UM, and keeping those
Speaker 1: adults vaccinated is really essential. What are you seeing in
Speaker 1: communities around the country, UM, some of those less fortunate
Speaker 1: communities where people are just struggling maybe to you know,
Speaker 1: keep a roof over the heads of their family and
Speaker 1: get food on the table. Um, how are you seeing
Speaker 1: them in terms of the crisis. I think about New
Speaker 1: Haven certainly one of those communities. Yeah, sure, Yeah. New
Speaker 1: Haven had some substantial economic variation and populations that have
Speaker 1: historically been left out um of economic mobility and a
Speaker 1: lot of other things, and that's been a key issue,
Speaker 1: especially for vaccination. UM. It's been both an information in
Speaker 1: an access question. What we've seen in New Haven is
Speaker 1: that we have had door to door vaccination campaigns and
Speaker 1: I've actually been involved in some of those, uh, and
Speaker 1: most have been really effective at trying to address some
Speaker 1: of the homebound issues, some of the education issues, and
Speaker 1: some of the access issues that have presented themselves. UM.
Speaker 1: I think now it really depends on leaders in community
Speaker 1: right and UM at the state level to keep pressing
Speaker 1: that out so the individuals art responsible themselves. That focus
Speaker 1: on community is so important throughout this We've heard that
Speaker 1: from so many. Jessica, thank you so much. Jessica holds
Speaker 1: her She's assistant professor program director of Public Health at
Speaker 1: University of New Haven. This is Bloomberg Business Week with
Speaker 1: Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: One of the discussions that I think surprised some, perhaps
Speaker 1: even many, over the past year or so as we
Speaker 1: often talked about diversity and inclusion, was the lack of
Speaker 1: just that in Silicon Valley, the epicenter of US innovations.
Speaker 1: So feeling that deficiency big time are Asian Americans. And
Speaker 1: that's the subject of a Bloomberg Business Week story that
Speaker 1: you can find online and on the Bloomberg terminal. Let's
Speaker 1: get more on it from pre a non She is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Venture Capital reporters. She joins us right now on
Speaker 1: the phone in San Francisco and on the remote access
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts. Bloomberg business Week editor Jill WEBARDA, let me
Speaker 1: bring you in. You did the reporting along with our
Speaker 1: Ellen Hewitt. Tell us what you set out to find
Speaker 1: out or what was it that triggered the question that
Speaker 1: you knew that there was. Okay, I've got to ask
Speaker 1: and find out more about the story. That's right. So
Speaker 1: we've known for a while that Silicon Valley is not
Speaker 1: great with diversity. And you would assume these companies, you know,
Speaker 1: um companies crop up every day here. These a lot
Speaker 1: of these companies are are not that many decades old.
Speaker 1: You would assume that they weren't sattled with some of
Speaker 1: the historical issues that other institutions that have been around
Speaker 1: for maybe hundreds of years might be saddled with. But
Speaker 1: one one key thing that we realized was, you know,
Speaker 1: in the demographic reports that these companies put out Alphabet,
Speaker 1: Google's parent company, Facebook, etcetera, one bright spot always appears
Speaker 1: to be that Asian's account for almost as much of
Speaker 1: the company as white folks and sometimes more of the population.
Speaker 1: At a company in the US, at least Facebook, for example,
Speaker 1: Asian people outnumber they're white peers, UM, ever so slightly
Speaker 1: in the US. And so we looked at that a
Speaker 1: little deeper and we realized, you know, there is a
Speaker 1: gap as you move up the ranks at tech companies,
Speaker 1: and the data shows this, um, there are far fewer
Speaker 1: Asian folks in leadership compared to your overall representation at
Speaker 1: the company. UM. So we noticed that gap, and we thought,
Speaker 1: you know what is behind that gap. Let's start asking
Speaker 1: the questions and talking to people. Yeah, and you know, Joel,
Speaker 1: I think it is a surprise. You know, we do
Speaker 1: often cover how tech companies and we talk with tech
Speaker 1: company executives. They love to say we've got a lot
Speaker 1: of diversity and inclusion, and yes, sometimes that is the case,
Speaker 1: but it's not such a clear picture picture. It's a
Speaker 1: lot more complicated. Yeah, and I think that you know
Speaker 1: that is was really the thrust of the story. And
Speaker 1: what pred um I think remarkably well is like there's
Speaker 1: the data set of the story, ben't then there's the
Speaker 1: human one. And so I just wanted to actually like
Speaker 1: take a moment like these are people who haven't often
Speaker 1: spoken on the record about sort of the environment that
Speaker 1: the work environment that they're in. And and there were
Speaker 1: several themes that um uh stuck out I think in
Speaker 1: the reporting and and why don't you just talk to
Speaker 1: us about what some of those were and what people felt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Michel said, so, one of the things that is
Speaker 1: most frustrating for Asians in the tech industry is that
Speaker 1: the racism against them is barely acknowledged. There's this idea.
Speaker 1: I spoke with someone yesterday who said, thank you for
Speaker 1: writing this story, because there's been this idea that we
Speaker 1: shouldn't talk about this because at least we're well represented
Speaker 1: at these companies, but there are a lot of challenges
Speaker 1: that come along the ways they're progressing. At a tech company,
Speaker 1: we spoke with folks who are fairly young and their funnies.
Speaker 1: As an intern Um, a woman who moved to San
Speaker 1: Francisco for an internship was told, you know, um, white
Speaker 1: men here will love to date you. And so for
Speaker 1: women in the tech industry, there's this double whammy, right
Speaker 1: of receiving the gendered feedback and also this sort of
Speaker 1: feedback that that fetishizes Asian women. The same woman has
Speaker 1: been told by a manager or by a colleague that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, you only have succeeded here because someone in
Speaker 1: leadership has an Asian fetish and this is someone in
Speaker 1: their twenties. And this person, you know, has also been
Speaker 1: told that they lack executive presence, which for someone in
Speaker 1: their twenties, you know, is this vague kind of coded
Speaker 1: feedback on what does that even mean? You've never managed
Speaker 1: anyone in the first place, um, And when you combine
Speaker 1: all those things together, it's quite a discouraging outlook. And
Speaker 1: then when folks reach middle management stage, this vague feedback
Speaker 1: continues right related to executive pressens. And also people are
Speaker 1: often told, you know, you don't fit the profile of
Speaker 1: what we're looking for in this role, and they look
Speaker 1: at their credentials, they look at um, their successes that
Speaker 1: they've had in their career. They look at their peers
Speaker 1: and sometimes only differences. They're an Asian American compared to
Speaker 1: a lot of their white peers, and they're less wondering
Speaker 1: whether this big feedback had something to do with their
Speaker 1: performance or their credentials, or is it about their identity. So,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the other elements that I thought
Speaker 1: was so significant by the story was that we're not
Speaker 1: just talking about names that you know in the characters
Speaker 1: that you talked to. I mean, it's all it's it's more.
Speaker 1: It feels more like rank and file that you guys
Speaker 1: were able to that you you and Ellen were able
Speaker 1: to speak with. But there is one person that I
Speaker 1: think um is more dientful than others, which is Ellen Powe.
Speaker 1: And you know that she became famous for the case
Speaker 1: that she lost in, but it also, um you know,
Speaker 1: it speaks to sort of what she was able to
Speaker 1: accomplish in the legacy her legacy a little bit. So
Speaker 1: what did you learn from talking with Ellen Powe? Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: one thing I wanted to shot with Ellen Powe about
Speaker 1: in particular was when she was interim CEO of Reddit. Firstly,
Speaker 1: why was it interim right, Um did did the board
Speaker 1: coming in decide that she wouldn't be staying on forever?
Speaker 1: And why it was that? And she says she looks
Speaker 1: back and wonders the same thing. Why she had that
Speaker 1: taxed under a title and she let it go at
Speaker 1: the time. Um. But one of the things that struck
Speaker 1: me most was looking back on her career while she
Speaker 1: was running Reddit, there were all these racist memes, but
Speaker 1: users would post calling her chairman now or chairman pal
Speaker 1: after you know now style memes. Um And And that
Speaker 1: just seemed really striking right to rebel against the changes
Speaker 1: she was making with not just any kind of meme,
Speaker 1: but these rates, like frankly very racist memes um calling
Speaker 1: her chairman pal. So that that was something that I
Speaker 1: think if that happened now, um, perhaps we look at
Speaker 1: even more than it was covered in the past. Um
Speaker 1: And And Ellen Power is such an example for for
Speaker 1: folks right of someone who rose and who tried to
Speaker 1: um push back against the lack of diversity in the
Speaker 1: tech industry by doing Kleiner Perkins for gender discrimination. And
Speaker 1: she also feels looking back that a lot of what
Speaker 1: she experienced was raised related as well. But as a
Speaker 1: people strategy at the time, where lawyers advised her to
Speaker 1: just building for gender. There's so much, so much in
Speaker 1: this story, including how there are different experiences for different
Speaker 1: Asian Americans. So highly recommend that everyone check it out.
Speaker 1: I'll put it out on Twitter. Uh, Priya, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for bringing it to as Priya Non She's
Speaker 1: Venture Capital report U Blomberg News on the Phone from
Speaker 1: San Francisco, written with our own Ellen hughittt Tilweber, Editor
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week on the remote access from Massachusetts. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Speaking of updates, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get one from the Walt Disney Company. They report
Speaker 1: their latest orderly earnings after the close tomorrow. Ahead of that,
Speaker 1: a story that is among our most read on the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Today. It's about the company's Star Wars experience, a
Speaker 1: new galactic themed hotel with what some might say is
Speaker 1: an astronomic price tag. Here to fill us in and
Speaker 1: what it may be portends, if you will, when it
Speaker 1: comes to experiences, especially among the wealthy. His Connorsen. He
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg opinion columnist founder Peachtree Creek Investments. He joins
Speaker 1: us on the phone from Atlanta, Connor, good to have
Speaker 1: you here. I love this story. Cut my attention this
Speaker 1: morning when I was reading in So, first of all,
Speaker 1: tell us what Disney is up to? Well, I think
Speaker 1: people look at the price tag and they think about
Speaker 1: what a theme park costs. Maybe Disney World is undred
Speaker 1: twenty third bucks to day hotels the junior dollars, and
Speaker 1: then they see a two day experience for two adults
Speaker 1: that's five thousand dollars, and they're thinking what's going on here?
Speaker 1: But I think they've they've sort of seen that there's
Speaker 1: an appetite for this higher end luxury consumption that isn't
Speaker 1: being met by the marketplace, and they intend to top
Speaker 1: into it. Right because it sounds a little like what
Speaker 1: it's going to be a small audience. But remember when
Speaker 1: we thought there was only gonna be a small audience
Speaker 1: maybe for these expensive Apple iPhones, and yet they have
Speaker 1: created a lot of wealth for that company, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people have snapped them up. What do you
Speaker 1: think is kind of the more significant sign are what
Speaker 1: we should read into kind of what Star Star Wars
Speaker 1: is up to not Star Wars and what Disney is
Speaker 1: up to, well, I think we know that household network,
Speaker 1: especially at the top, has increased significantly of the past
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years, and particularly over the past twelve months.
Speaker 1: Prices are up a lot, stock portfolio is up a lot.
Speaker 1: If you work from home, you've probably done just fined
Speaker 1: over the past year. And so coming out of this
Speaker 1: pandemic and say next year, after we get through all
Speaker 1: these variants, there's gonna be a lot of untapped appetite
Speaker 1: for sort of luxury consumption, and there really aren't a
Speaker 1: lot of great ways to do that, at least nothing
Speaker 1: that's sort of newish, and so Disney says, here's something new,
Speaker 1: something exclusive, and they think it's going to be a hit.
Speaker 1: Do you really believe that there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: ways for those who are really wealthy to kind of
Speaker 1: spend their money, because because you know the argument that's
Speaker 1: out there though that when it comes to consumers spending,
Speaker 1: it's not the ultrawealthy that really spent all their mon any.
Speaker 1: Is it really from a lack of things to spend
Speaker 1: it on? I mean, I think you could look at
Speaker 1: things like cryptocurrencies and maybe meme trading and some of
Speaker 1: the stuff as people have money to burn and they're
Speaker 1: willing to gamble on sort of crazy things. Just that
Speaker 1: there's so much cash flown around. Were collectible with baseball
Speaker 1: cards and what have you. And and so I think
Speaker 1: when it comes to experiential stuff, a lot of what's
Speaker 1: out there was out there ten or fifteen years ago,
Speaker 1: and there's nothing that's that's quite new and novel. Well,
Speaker 1: and you take us back to the I think it
Speaker 1: was the early to mid nineteen nineties right when we
Speaker 1: kind of saw a similar thing happened in terms of
Speaker 1: more expensive experiences being offered up. Tell us about that, right, So,
Speaker 1: sort of between call it, you had sort of the
Speaker 1: modern Las Vegas popped up with cassine as like the
Speaker 1: Marrage and MGM brand. You had sports stadiums that really
Speaker 1: sort of upscaled and let luxury with luxury suites and
Speaker 1: personal seat licenses, even at movie theaters who have the
Speaker 1: invention of the megaplex and these stadium seatings or climbing
Speaker 1: chairs and what have you. And we haven't had a
Speaker 1: whole lot of that over the past decade or so.
Speaker 1: And so people gotten wealthier. There's an appetite for something
Speaker 1: new and novel, and so you create a price point
Speaker 1: and experience that people want. So what does this mean then?
Speaker 1: Kind of bigger broader You know you're an investor, watch
Speaker 1: the markets. I think about our audience, who are hearing this,
Speaker 1: and so what does this mean? Do you think potentially
Speaker 1: we'll see more uh, costlier experiences being created out there
Speaker 1: for because because the wealthier ready to spend some money.
Speaker 1: If if the you know, if there's options out there, like,
Speaker 1: how do you see it playing out? What's the significance
Speaker 1: that especially when I think about the Bloomberg audience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think if you're a corporation and you see the
Speaker 1: star Wars Hotell be a big head at five thousand
Speaker 1: bucks for a couple of nights, You're thinking, what can
Speaker 1: I offer that's a five thousand dollar experience that people
Speaker 1: are willing to pay And so whether that's Universal Studios,
Speaker 1: maybe it's more Disney parks, Naked's cruise ships, it can
Speaker 1: sort of have even more luxurious events. I think there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a real land grab to sort of create
Speaker 1: your own five thousand dollar experience and help people will
Speaker 1: pay for it. What does it mean in terms of
Speaker 1: economic amentum too, because I always think about economic cycles
Speaker 1: often have you know, several lights right and several things
Speaker 1: that kind of either keep it going or ultimately make
Speaker 1: it stop or slow down. Could this potentially provide another
Speaker 1: uh leg to the economic momentum that we're certainly seeing
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, I think so. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you have maybe new casinos in Las Vegas get built
Speaker 1: that are several billion dollars of construction and jobs working claps,
Speaker 1: jobs sort of also people working at these resorts, and
Speaker 1: then you know, you see the wealthy spending their money
Speaker 1: and they're creating jobs for the working class to serve them.
Speaker 1: It also helps companies deal with the rising costs they're
Speaker 1: doing with right now. A lot of ways that you
Speaker 1: can sort of power new cycle that's not as dependent
Speaker 1: on maybe tacking what we've seen over the past decade.
Speaker 1: I did think that was really interesting in your column
Speaker 1: when you talked about, you know, presumably Disney will be
Speaker 1: able to pay more than fifteen dollars an hour to
Speaker 1: staff at its Star Wars venue if it needs to.
Speaker 1: So when things cost so much, that gives a company
Speaker 1: that's offering it potentially more room to either pay its
Speaker 1: workers or spend on investments. Right on. One part of
Speaker 1: the pricing power story is just being able to offer
Speaker 1: new products and services at higher price points that people
Speaker 1: are wanted to spend more on. Doesn't necesarily mean just
Speaker 1: charting more for your existing stuff. All right, So are
Speaker 1: you going to take this galactic star cruiser trip. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna see what the rood user like. That's that's pretty
Speaker 1: steep for us, so we'll see alright. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: thought going up into space with one of the billionaires
Speaker 1: was expensive. Um, and it is, but this is also
Speaker 1: a pretty high price point. A really fascinating column. Connor,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, really appreciate it, counterson his Blueberg
Speaker 1: opinion columnist, the founder Peachtree Creek Investments, joining us on
Speaker 1: the phone from Atlanta. A reminder that Disney will be
Speaker 1: reporting their earnings after the close tomorrow. And I'm just
Speaker 1: bringing up the stock right now in terms of it's
Speaker 1: just done about one and a half percent so far
Speaker 1: here in a journal. Now, but you let me drive, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: all right, please, I want to drive. Try question. This
Speaker 1: is the drive to the globe. Thanks, we'll try us
Speaker 1: down on Bloomberg Radio. It is time for the drive
Speaker 1: to the clothes. We have just about ten and a
Speaker 1: half minutes left in today's trading session, and we are
Speaker 1: off our best levels, just barely on the Dow Jones
Speaker 1: Industrial average. Same story for the S and P five
Speaker 1: records on both of those, we've seen in today's trading session,
Speaker 1: nast act just down a hair and off its worst
Speaker 1: levels of the day. So let's get to it with
Speaker 1: Vinny Catalano. He is Chief Markets Drudges at Stuyveson Capital Management,
Speaker 1: with us once again on the phone in New Jersey. Vinny,
Speaker 1: nice to have you here. Feels like it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of the dog's day dog days of summer. How
Speaker 1: do you see the trade right now? Uh, the trade
Speaker 1: as continuing what it's been, you know, for the better
Speaker 1: part of the last year. Uh. You know what we
Speaker 1: have is we have a lot of money, a lot
Speaker 1: of easy in and easy out for the markets, the
Speaker 1: publicly traded markets that is. And so you know this.
Speaker 1: It had been referred to the stock market in situations
Speaker 1: like this as being a casino being in never never land.
Speaker 1: I say it's in whatever land, whatever land, whatever land,
Speaker 1: whatever number sounds good to you, you know, it's just, uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's the environment we're in. Money. So when you
Speaker 1: when you say whatever, land, does that mean you think
Speaker 1: there's some irresponsible trading going on and over evaluation that
Speaker 1: we're saying, yeah, I'm going to say yes, evaluation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's uh, yes, there is a by every measure of evaluation,
Speaker 1: certainly in times of yore, when the stock market at
Speaker 1: least made a reference to what the private equity markets
Speaker 1: and the fixed income markets make a reference to all
Speaker 1: the time, and that is the present value, the future
Speaker 1: cash flows and what do we have Now we have
Speaker 1: rationalizations for any valuation level that sounds good. We have
Speaker 1: memes stocks that basically are I don't know what, but
Speaker 1: there's there's no reference to fundamentals that are there, and
Speaker 1: so this is going to go on until it stops
Speaker 1: going on. That's that's the environment we're in. But don't
Speaker 1: you also feel it is a market? I mean, if
Speaker 1: you like, take a look at something like a m
Speaker 1: C which one above sixty were now back at thirty one,
Speaker 1: Maybe that still makes no sense considering it was a
Speaker 1: low of what five dollars and fifty one cents back
Speaker 1: in February of this year, But Nonetheless, it does seem like,
Speaker 1: you know, putting meme stocks aside. It feels like investors
Speaker 1: are having some man individual investors are having some fun
Speaker 1: out there. But you feel that way for all sectors
Speaker 1: of the market, even some of those Okay, yeah, not
Speaker 1: all sectors of the market, and certainly not all sectors
Speaker 1: of the investible kid, meaning into the private market area.
Speaker 1: One of the things that investors might consider, if they
Speaker 1: have the ability to do it, is to take a
Speaker 1: look at the private markets, because the private markets offer
Speaker 1: better value, they're more rooted in fundamentals. Uh, And the
Speaker 1: opportunity to go public into what is clearly an inflated
Speaker 1: stock market viaspacts or other methods is there. So if that,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to find value, that's kind
Speaker 1: of where the value would be now in the publicly
Speaker 1: traded space. Uh, it's a heck of a lot harder.
Speaker 1: I think what investors would do that makes the most sense,
Speaker 1: besides all of the fundamental things that they should do,
Speaker 1: like take a look at their portfolios, make sure that
Speaker 1: everything is aligned with their wants and needs, their risk tolerances, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So when you take all of those things into consideration,
Speaker 1: that's good. That's all good basic stuff. I guess the
Speaker 1: way to look at it is to look at thematic
Speaker 1: issues to see what trends and themes that look like
Speaker 1: they're going to be there for a longer period of time.
Speaker 1: So that this way, if you're invested in an area
Speaker 1: and that area doesn't two uh, if it hits the
Speaker 1: speedbump along the way, then you know you're in something
Speaker 1: that you want to be in. But going into issues
Speaker 1: and areas because everybody else is doing it, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that can work until it stops working. So at that
Speaker 1: point then you then you're stuck with something that you
Speaker 1: really don't want to home. So when you say private markets,
Speaker 1: are you talking about private equity specifically, or what else
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Well, private equity or anything that
Speaker 1: can be converted into publicly traded equities because they're the
Speaker 1: valuation gap. If you look at the statistics over the
Speaker 1: last and fifteen years and you look at PE ratios
Speaker 1: of comparables of publicly traded versus private privately held issues,
Speaker 1: you'll see that the privately held issues remained a pretty
Speaker 1: constant level in terms of evaluation PE ratios, and so
Speaker 1: they stayed closer to whatever the interest rate changes might
Speaker 1: pa whereas in the publicly traded issues, they were all
Speaker 1: over the lot, you know, significantly above, significantly below, and
Speaker 1: that's mainly because of liquidity. You can get in, you
Speaker 1: can get out, and why not. You know, it sounds
Speaker 1: like fun. In fact, what I would like to do
Speaker 1: is for you and I to create UH un offering
Speaker 1: to Quentin Tarantino, to offering him that we will put
Speaker 1: together a UH program for him to do a follow
Speaker 1: up to his Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. We'll
Speaker 1: call it Once upon a Time on Wolf Street. Once
Speaker 1: upon a time on Wolf Street. The stock market made
Speaker 1: a reference for value today. It's like, whatever do you
Speaker 1: feel Do you feel like it's more out of whack
Speaker 1: than it was during the tech bubble or during the
Speaker 1: run up? UH? In real estate and real estate related
Speaker 1: UH financial instruments. UH. If it walks like a duck,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like a duck, then most likely it
Speaker 1: is a duck. Yeah, there are there are different types
Speaker 1: of ducks, though well there's you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of similarities in that regardless. You know something John Mayne
Speaker 1: Kane said it, Hey, markets can remain a rational logan
Speaker 1: and you can remain solving. You know what's interesting? Well,
Speaker 1: and do you like SPACs? Do I like SPACs? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I like private issues that have the opportunity to go
Speaker 1: through SPACs. Yeah, Okay, that's you know, that's good. SPACs
Speaker 1: look interesting, but you know there's so many of them
Speaker 1: out there, and you know, I'd rather do our movie
Speaker 1: idea with Tarrant Kino and I can tell I can
Speaker 1: do well. The reason I bring up spacks is if
Speaker 1: I look at the um Spack index or one of
Speaker 1: those back indexes, it's about so what we seem to
Speaker 1: keep finding is that people make money very early on,
Speaker 1: but the longer it goes on, that's not the case.
Speaker 1: So again, for an investor, if you're lucky enough to
Speaker 1: be in and out, great and if you have access
Speaker 1: early enough, that's great, but that might not be the
Speaker 1: case for most investors out there. That is correct. If
Speaker 1: you qualify for private investments okay, and you've had on
Speaker 1: your program in the past, uh, Lawrence Calcano from my
Speaker 1: Capital Network and it's not a plug for them, but
Speaker 1: just that that's an area to take a look at
Speaker 1: if you qualify, to see what I Capital Network has
Speaker 1: to offer, to see if there isn't something there in
Speaker 1: the private space that might make sense for you? Do
Speaker 1: you get nervous though, and I'm bringing up I'm taking
Speaker 1: a look at some of the work that Peter Atwater
Speaker 1: is doing over William and Mary just sending me a note.
Speaker 1: But you know, concerned about some of the money slashing
Speaker 1: around though. When it comes to private equity, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of money chasing a lot of stuff that needs
Speaker 1: to be put to work otherwise the private equity firms
Speaker 1: have to give it back, you know, So I mean
Speaker 1: you gotta be careful there too. Absolutely, you really have
Speaker 1: to do your homework in the private space, okay, mainly
Speaker 1: because once you go in, you're not getting out. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot getting out anytime soon. That's the
Speaker 1: polar opposite of what goes on in the stock market.
Speaker 1: I get in now, I get out later, whereas with
Speaker 1: the with the private private market, get out later, meaning
Speaker 1: very very quickly. Whereas in the private market you get
Speaker 1: in and then you're there and you have to do
Speaker 1: the due diligence. You've got to do the research, and
Speaker 1: that's not an easy thing to do. But that's where
Speaker 1: the better value happens today. At least you know the
Speaker 1: way the way it looks compared to the to the
Speaker 1: public markets. All right, we gotta run. Hey Vinny, good
Speaker 1: to check in with you. Hope you and your family
Speaker 1: are well. Vitty Catalano, he's chief market Strategies at Staveson
Speaker 1: Capital Management, joining us on the phone in New Jersey,
Speaker 1: and folks, we just have a few minutes left in
Speaker 1: today's trading session. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week.
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