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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's sound on.

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Speaker 1: No president should be able to sustain boots on the

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Speaker 1: grounds without congressional approval and without a clear explanation of

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Speaker 1: what the mission is and what the endgame is. This

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Speaker 1: isn't really about the economic policy. This is about the coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: Floomberg Sound On Politics, Policy and perspective from DC's top name.

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Speaker 1: We must use every school possible to defeat the assault

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Speaker 1: on women's reproductive rights. This is a steady growth that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing here in our economy, you know, over the

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Speaker 1: last three months. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio Live from Washington, where we are officially obsessed

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Speaker 1: with process, but on this program, we're obsessed with policy.

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Speaker 1: Now that congressional committees have begun pouring the foundation for reconciliation,

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Speaker 1: the bulk of the Biden economic agenda will be joined

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Speaker 1: today by one of the president's nearest economic advisors, Have Boucher,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about the effort as well to lower

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Speaker 1: drug prices with Congressman Scott Peters, a Democrat from California

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Speaker 1: who earlier today voted no on a proposal to do

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Speaker 1: just that, and we'll ask him why and as we

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Speaker 1: try to make sense of all of this, the taxes

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Speaker 1: and spending. The shower of numbers from Capitol Hill will

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Speaker 1: be joined later by Steve Ellis from the Bipartisan Taxpayers

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Speaker 1: for Common Sense, and of course the panel the Classic.

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Speaker 1: Today we have Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick

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Speaker 1: Davis with us. It's the fastest hour in politics and

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Speaker 1: we're just getting started. President Biden reinforced the message today

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Speaker 1: in a speech to the nation from the East Room,

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Speaker 1: the message on economic equality. This is our moment to

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Speaker 1: deal working people back into the economy. This is our

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Speaker 1: moment to prove the American people that their government works

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Speaker 1: for them, not just for the big corporations of those

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Speaker 1: are the very top. Speaking to proposed tax hikes for

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Speaker 1: corporations and the wealthy, and tax cuts for the working class,

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Speaker 1: all part of Democrats reconciliation plan that is being crafted

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Speaker 1: as we speak. And joining us in a moment at

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Speaker 1: what the President calls an inflection point for our economy

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Speaker 1: will be Heather Boucher, member of the White House Council

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Speaker 1: of Economic Advisors, and as soon as she's on the line.

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Speaker 1: Will be happy to bring her on the program. It's

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Speaker 1: an inflection point, as the President called it, beginning with

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Speaker 1: rewriting much of the tax code to get more money

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Speaker 1: what he calls corporations paying their fair share, big corporations

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Speaker 1: and the wealthy. But the rates that we've seen from Congress,

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Speaker 1: to remind everyone, are below the level proposed by the

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Speaker 1: White House. And we'll talk about that with Heather Bouchet.

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Speaker 1: In a moment, the President today called out those who

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Speaker 1: have not been paying any taxes. Here's what he said,

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Speaker 1: how is it possible at fifty five and the largest

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Speaker 1: corporation in this country a zero dollars in federal income

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Speaker 1: taxes they made over in the year and they paid zero.

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Speaker 1: Think about that, zero dollars in federal taxes on forty

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in profits. So let's bring in the panel

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Speaker 1: Bluebird Politics contributors Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they're with us for the hour here, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be hearing a lot of voices as we

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Speaker 1: moved through the sound On program, and I want to

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Speaker 1: start with what the President was talking about here. Genie.

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Speaker 1: We've we've heard the work that was done from the

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Speaker 1: Ways and Means Committee. We've heard the tax rates that

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Speaker 1: have been established for corporations for capital gains for wealthy individuals.

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Speaker 1: They still fall short of President Biden's plan. However, can

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Speaker 1: we assume that he's good with that? Obviously it's going

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Speaker 1: to affect the final price tech. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: he probably is thinking at this point that his entire

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Speaker 1: focus has got to be in prodding and pushing these

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Speaker 1: progressive and these more moderate Democrats to stay together and

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Speaker 1: tot of the line. You know, unlike President Obama in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, he can't afford to lose any

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Speaker 1: of them. Maybe three in the House, but that's it.

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Speaker 1: It is such a small margin. I think that is

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Speaker 1: his major focus. So to answer your question, I do

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Speaker 1: think that what they came up with is he's probably

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Speaker 1: feeling like it's about as good as he's gonna get.

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Speaker 1: And still we're seeing drop off amongst some moderates. And

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Speaker 1: I know you're going to be getting to this, but

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Speaker 1: I think the prescription drug pricing example, is what's going

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Speaker 1: to be coming down the line, and the President is

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Speaker 1: trying to hold the hold the wall there and make

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Speaker 1: sure that doesn't keep happening, Rick Davis, Why does the

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Speaker 1: President speak to the nation today from the East room

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Speaker 1: kind of a formal feeling address, big room full of

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Speaker 1: reporters calling this the inflection point? Is it because committee

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Speaker 1: has had a deadline yesterday? He was up all night

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Speaker 1: worried about it. What's what's the motivation? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: as you point out, thirteen committees did their work yesterday

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Speaker 1: as required under the Reconciliation Budget Act that passed in

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Speaker 1: the House. And I think he didn't get what he wanted,

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Speaker 1: and so I think he had to enter the stage.

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Speaker 1: He had to use the power of the presidency, his

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Speaker 1: bully pulpit, to get into the act of lobbying his

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Speaker 1: own party in Congress to try and get this bill

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Speaker 1: moving forward right now. Uh, there are a number of

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Speaker 1: critical aspects of it, both on the tax side and

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Speaker 1: on the spending side, that are being debated actively and

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Speaker 1: opposed by members of his own party, either as Jennie

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Speaker 1: pointed out, by the progressives or by the moderates. And

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Speaker 1: this is his chance of getting into the game. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It really started last night yesterday with meetings with members

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Speaker 1: of the uh sort of UH, the Moderate Caucus and

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party in the Senate, Joe Manchin and Christen Cinema.

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Speaker 1: But today it was all about the House, all about

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Speaker 1: these reports and all about the policy. And and you

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Speaker 1: know his point about all these corporations not paying taxes,

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Speaker 1: it's not because there isn't a corporate tax cut. It's

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Speaker 1: because the tax coat is full of all these loopholes

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Speaker 1: that allow them to zero out their taxes. And so

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Speaker 1: the one thing I actually think has been underestimated in

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Speaker 1: the debate is to have the Tax Writing Committee's ways

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Speaker 1: and means actually close some of these loopholes, which they

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Speaker 1: have not done as part of reconciliation. Rick and Jennie

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Speaker 1: are with us for the hour. Standby, guys, is a

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Speaker 1: perfect place to bring in Heather Bouche, of course, to

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Speaker 1: the member of the White House Council of Economic Advisors,

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Speaker 1: in her debut appearance here on Bloomberg Sound On, Heather,

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Speaker 1: it's great to have you here, and I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you could bring us in on on that particular question

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Speaker 1: here we've we've heard from the President just as recently

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Speaker 1: as today he isolated fifty five of the largest companies

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Speaker 1: paying no taxes while middle class Americans pay their fair share,

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Speaker 1: as he calls it should this not begin simply with

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Speaker 1: I R S enforcement getting people to pay what they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to pay. Well, Hi, Joe, it's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for for having me on. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: what a great question to start with. I mean this

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Speaker 1: is this really gets to the heart of the issue

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Speaker 1: that you know, we need to be rewarding working that well,

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Speaker 1: we need to make sure that businesses pay their fair

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Speaker 1: share of taxes. And we know that we've systemically, um

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Speaker 1: uh not given the I r S the resources they

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Speaker 1: need to enforce the laws on the books. And so

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Speaker 1: the President's proposal, you know, really was grounded in the

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Speaker 1: idea that we definitely need to do that. We need

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Speaker 1: to make sure that the i r S has the

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Speaker 1: enforcement agents that they are focused on enforcing the tax code,

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Speaker 1: especially among those at the top of the income lander.

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Speaker 1: And so that is a really important goal because you know,

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Speaker 1: if you have a tax law and people aren't aren't

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Speaker 1: paying their fair share, then that harms us all. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The rates that we have seen from Congress beyond enforcement here,

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Speaker 1: for the corporate tax rate for capital gains are below

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Speaker 1: the level proposed by the White House. Should they be higher, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, The President has made his views clear when

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Speaker 1: he laid out his plans. They certainly they should be

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Speaker 1: higher than what Congress is putting on the table right now,

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Speaker 1: you know, but separation of powers the process is now

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Speaker 1: in Congresses hands. But the President and certainly the Treasury

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Speaker 1: Secretary did want to see higher rates. You've spent the

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Speaker 1: bulk of your career focused on economic equality. That's where

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Speaker 1: we began this hour. That's what I'd like to hear

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Speaker 1: about from you, because that is essentially what the President

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Speaker 1: is pitching here right that we are at an inflection point,

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Speaker 1: and it almost feels like he's talking about climate change,

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Speaker 1: like if we go beyond this point, there's no coming back.

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Speaker 1: Is there enough in this reconciliation bill? And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that you had a lot to do with helping to

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Speaker 1: craft some of these ideas with the president. Is there

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Speaker 1: enough to achieve what you see is economic equality? And

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Speaker 1: how long would it take? Well? I think that there

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Speaker 1: is enough. And the president's broad agenda, so you look

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Speaker 1: at the combination of the bipartisan deal and the reconciliation package,

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Speaker 1: and you have significant investments in people and family all

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Speaker 1: across the country. Your policies are going to support family

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Speaker 1: economic well being, give being middle class families the tax

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Speaker 1: cut that they need, making sure that we're bringing down

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Speaker 1: costs that families face on a day in, day out basis,

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Speaker 1: and doing that through supporting our care infrastructure, childcare, elder care, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, making healthcare more affordable, while also you know,

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Speaker 1: on the climate side, making sure that as we make

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Speaker 1: this transition to clean energy, that those costs are not

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Speaker 1: being uh disproportionately born by consumers, or making sure that

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Speaker 1: we're doing this in a way that's smart and efficient,

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Speaker 1: that we're fostering innovation, and that um, we're making sure

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Speaker 1: that consumers won't have to deal with two high costs

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Speaker 1: as we go through that transition. So I think that

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Speaker 1: those are really important. But let me be really clear

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Speaker 1: that core to the president's agenda are these taxes being

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Speaker 1: raised at the very top. You know his pledge which

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Speaker 1: he said more times than anybody can count, to not

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Speaker 1: raise taxes on anyone making under four hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a year, but to focus on rewarding work and not

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Speaker 1: well focusing on those text at the top, focusing on

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Speaker 1: fixing those distortions in the tax code put in there

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Speaker 1: by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that encourage firms

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Speaker 1: to shift profits overseas, and and all the rest. Um

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Speaker 1: that too, will help to address inequality by putting a

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Speaker 1: lid on it at the top alongside his robust agenda

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Speaker 1: around competition, which is not a part of your legislative packages,

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Speaker 1: but is really core to this agenda in terms of

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Speaker 1: inequality as well. Um So, so there's a number of

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Speaker 1: different aspects, but it's all focused on the same goal,

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Speaker 1: which is to grow in strength in America's middle class.

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Speaker 1: Of course, how none of this comes easily on the

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Speaker 1: other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, and we've been watching lawmakers

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Speaker 1: grind through this. Bloomberg is reporting that Speaker Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 1: is bracing Democrats for the prospect that portions of the bill,

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Speaker 1: this is the Larger Reconciliation Bill, may not survive in

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Speaker 1: the Senate. Sent a letter to her members reminding lawmakers

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Speaker 1: there are certain limitations, she wrote, in terms of Senate rules,

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Speaker 1: and she's pointing to IMMA gracition reforms, Dreamers as well

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Speaker 1: as some climate related initiatives. Does it not have the

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Speaker 1: same impact if these components don't make it through the Senate?

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Speaker 1: Are we not making good then on that inflection point,

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Speaker 1: or will you take what you can get? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: the President has made it clear that in action is

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Speaker 1: not an option. Um, that these are all priorities that

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Speaker 1: we need to push them through. But you know, we

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Speaker 1: have to we have to help Congress do what they

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Speaker 1: can do, to pass what they can and to make

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Speaker 1: it the best legislation that they can possibly do. So

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Speaker 1: I remain very optimistic that we will get something that

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Speaker 1: comes close to what the Posident has proposed, if not,

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Speaker 1: you know there um, And that it will make a

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Speaker 1: difference in families, everyday lives, and it will make a

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Speaker 1: difference in creating good jobs all across the country and

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Speaker 1: keeping costs down. So I think they, you know, together

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Speaker 1: this is really going to push the ball forward. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, reconciliation is a tricky way to do legislation,

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Speaker 1: shin Um. There's a lot of rules going on in

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Speaker 1: the Senate with what you can and can't do. Um.

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Speaker 1: But that's the reality of only having a fifty Senate majority,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. Reconciliation has a messy way that we

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Speaker 1: should get a bumper sticker printed for for you on that.

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Speaker 1: Heather bouchet All of these plans, Let's say the whole

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Speaker 1: thing goes through three and a half trillion, the Rainbow package,

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Speaker 1: everything you wanted. If we cannot beat COVID, though, do

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Speaker 1: these plans end up having the same impact or are

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Speaker 1: you now planning for a world in which COVID is

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Speaker 1: part of our long term reality. Well, there's a yes

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Speaker 1: and answer to this. I mean, first of all, I

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Speaker 1: think we all thought that once we had a vaccine,

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Speaker 1: we would be further along, that more Americans would have

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Speaker 1: taken the opportunity by now to have gotten vaccinated UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we know that that is really a

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Speaker 1: part of the challenge is keeping COVID contained and moving forward,

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Speaker 1: and that is certainly the President's that has been the

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Speaker 1: President's topic genda items since he took office. But let

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Speaker 1: me be very clear that the packages that Congress is

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Speaker 1: talking about right now, these are not short term rescue packages.

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Speaker 1: These are investments in the future of our country. Their

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Speaker 1: investments that are going to be playing out over time,

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Speaker 1: and UM tax increases at the top that will play

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Speaker 1: it over time. So you know, we have to get

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Speaker 1: through this recovery now. And you know, we've made a

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Speaker 1: lot of progress. We're creating hundreds of thousands of jobs

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Speaker 1: a month, and we've got inflation taking down a little

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Speaker 1: bit this month. You know, things are looking like they

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Speaker 1: are moving in the right direction on the economy um

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Speaker 1: and you know there's there's new policies out there to

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Speaker 1: help everyone get those vaccines and to contain COVID. But

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Speaker 1: this reconciliation and infrastructure deal really are about laying the

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Speaker 1: tracks for the kind of economy that we want to

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Speaker 1: build back better too. You know, the kind of economy

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Speaker 1: where we're focused on green energy, where we're focused on

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Speaker 1: those jobs that are going to come from this climate,

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Speaker 1: the new transformation, and uh, how we produce energy and

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Speaker 1: making it more climate friendly. It is incorporating all of

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Speaker 1: these issues around care and how to support the middle

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Speaker 1: class that are going to be with us for the

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Speaker 1: longer haul. Heather Bouche of the White House Council of

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Speaker 1: Economic Advisors, I do thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: today on Bloomberg Sound On. I know it's been a

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Speaker 1: busy one at the White House and great to have

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Speaker 1: Heather's voice as a part of this. Another voice that

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Speaker 1: we want to bring you is Scott Peters is a

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Speaker 1: moderate Democrat from California and was one of three today,

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Speaker 1: one of three moderates who voted no on a drug

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Speaker 1: pricing proposal that was embraced by progressives. The idea here

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Speaker 1: was to lower prices, as I read on the terminal,

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Speaker 1: empower the government to demand lower prices for medicine while

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Speaker 1: limiting future drug price increases based on inflation. We wanted

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Speaker 1: to know why, and so we go to Congressman Peters

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Speaker 1: right now. Welcome Congressman to Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for having me, Joe.

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Speaker 1: So you're making news today and wondering why you said

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Speaker 1: no to this approach to regulating drug prices, something that

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Speaker 1: President Biden has talked about quite a lot. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: I think by the way, I think we should regulate

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Speaker 1: drug prices. I don't think there's any daylight between me

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Speaker 1: and any Democrats who wants to see lower out of

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Speaker 1: pocket costs for patients. I have a problem with what

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Speaker 1: the current draft, the HR three, the Democrats bill, does

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Speaker 1: with something called international reference pricing, which imposes a penalty

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Speaker 1: of on anyone who doesn't agree to the government's price

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Speaker 1: in future. If if you have that kind of disincentive

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Speaker 1: at the back end, no one's going to invest in

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Speaker 1: drug discovery at the front end and very important the

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Speaker 1: national health basic public research. It's forty billion dollars. The

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Speaker 1: private sector spent a hundred billion dollars in two eighteen

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Speaker 1: on drug discovery at no risk the taxpayers. That's where

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Speaker 1: we develop drugs in this country. And I think we

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Speaker 1: should lower drug prices, put a cap on inculin, you know,

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Speaker 1: negotiate with take their profits to pay for it. But

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Speaker 1: let's leave in place the incentives that give people hope,

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Speaker 1: these patients who are living with these awful diseases that

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Speaker 1: we're going to be able to come up cure someday.

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Speaker 1: That's the infrastructure we have, that's the ecosystem we have.

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Speaker 1: We don't have to throw the baby out with the BATHLOK.

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Speaker 1: So you're concerned this would stifle innovation. Yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: not just me. It's not just me. It's also the

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Speaker 1: Congressional Budget Office. It's fifty patient advocacy groups who advocate

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Speaker 1: for patients with some of the worst the gases like cancer, A,

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Speaker 1: l S, HIV, Alzheimer's. They all are very worried about

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Speaker 1: this approach in HR three and they want a different approach.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what I've tried to come up with

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to be constructive, and I think we've

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Speaker 1: come up with a good a good product. Are you

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Speaker 1: talking with leadership? Are you talking with Speaker Felocy about

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Speaker 1: an alternative proposal? Yeah, and so we we actually introduced

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Speaker 1: the alternative proposal. We dropped a bill this week that

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Speaker 1: does almost all the same things that HR three does

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of the patient of the consumer. Lowers

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Speaker 1: out of pocket costs by clowing back um profits from

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Speaker 1: pharma for for the increases in prices that they've made

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Speaker 1: since two thousands sixteen. We put a cap of thirty

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Speaker 1: one a year on for most people, most seniors, on

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Speaker 1: how much they can pay for for drugs. But if

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Speaker 1: it goes down to fifteen hundred dollars for people who

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Speaker 1: have have lower income, a fifty dollar a month cap

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Speaker 1: on insulin, so you don't have to pay more than that.

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Speaker 1: And basically we track what HR three does for patients.

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Speaker 1: What we don't do is take so much money out

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Speaker 1: of the industry to fund other things that we discourage

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Speaker 1: the development of new cures for people who are facing

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Speaker 1: these office. So we can we can have both. We

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Speaker 1: can both lower drug prices and preserve those incentives for cures.

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Speaker 1: In the context and the context of this reconciliation bill, Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: at least as reporting, Bloomberg is reporting the measure would

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Speaker 1: save some six hundred billion dollars. So without it, there's

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Speaker 1: a shortfall here. Would would your alternative bill provide as

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Speaker 1: much savings? No, my my bill. We estimate my bill

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Speaker 1: provides about two hundred billion dollars savings, which is nothing.

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Speaker 1: Let's shake a stick at Joe. I mean, I think, um,

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Speaker 1: I would never shake a stick at two hundred billion

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Speaker 1: dollars conversation. But I wonder does that also imply that

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Speaker 1: maybe you think three and a half trillion dollars is

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Speaker 1: too much money? Do you need all that savings? You

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Speaker 1: know what we already know as we sit here today,

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Speaker 1: that the bill is not going to be three and

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Speaker 1: half trillion. We've heard that from the Senate. Anyone senator

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Speaker 1: can cut that number. Uh. Senator Mansion has already said

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Speaker 1: one point five. It might be lower than that. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking in an academic way about this today. It

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Speaker 1: would be my preference that we slow down. We about

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Speaker 1: to know first how much money we have to eat

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Speaker 1: best and the Senate is going to tell us that,

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Speaker 1: and then let's all make choices together, the House and

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Speaker 1: the Center about what our priorities are. People ask me

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Speaker 1: about three point five trillion dollars. We know already that

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be three point five trillion, and

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Speaker 1: even if it was a trillion or a trillion two,

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Speaker 1: that's still historic. That's a historic investment in America's future.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not embarrassed about that. We should be proud

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Speaker 1: of it. In addition to a trillion dollar by partisan

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Speaker 1: infrastructure bill, I mean, that would give us quite a

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Speaker 1: record to run on. Talking with Congressman Scott Peters on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, how do you feel in general then

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Speaker 1: about this whole process that we've been trying awfully hard

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Speaker 1: to to cover, Congressmen, and sometimes it's difficult. It changes

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Speaker 1: by the hour, and we've had a real tug of

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Speaker 1: war between moderates and progressives in your party, even coming

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Speaker 1: down to the order in which you guys vote on

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Speaker 1: infrastructure versus reconciliation. Are you pleased with the form that

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Speaker 1: this process has taken. Well, I'm a little bit frustrated

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Speaker 1: because you know, the bipartisan infrastructure bill that the Senate

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Speaker 1: negotiated with the President that took five and month with

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Speaker 1: frillion dollars. We're trying to program three and a half

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Speaker 1: trillion dollars in five weeks solve all the problems. We're

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Speaker 1: really taking ourselves and the representation we promised to our

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Speaker 1: constituents out of that decision making process. So yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: frustrated with it, but I'm not trying to I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to be an obstruction on every single issue. I've

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Speaker 1: got other issues with the bill, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: have drawn a pretty hard line on HR three because

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Speaker 1: of what the patient groups and what the CBO has

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Speaker 1: has told was about the future of curing diseases here

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Speaker 1: in America. We're fighting to buy the way to bring

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Speaker 1: supply chain capabilities and farm back on shore. We should

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Speaker 1: not be taking actions today that would encourage this high

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Speaker 1: end drug discovery that creates curity for patients to go overseas,

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Speaker 1: and that's what I'm afraid we'll do. So that's why

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Speaker 1: on this we're taking a hard line. I'm willing to

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Speaker 1: work to make sure and put in the hard work

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we come up with something that works.

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Speaker 1: I'm staying in DC this weekend in case anyone wants

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Speaker 1: to meet with me, happy to do it. But I

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Speaker 1: just think that the path that we were on was

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Speaker 1: an unwise one and we can do better. Are there

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Speaker 1: other issues that would make you a no vote to

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Speaker 1: the broader plan? I haven't seen. I haven't seen what's

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Speaker 1: coming obviously, so I put the caveat in there that

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen the final bill. I would say a

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Speaker 1: couple of my priorities are that it should be paid for,

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Speaker 1: and that's the credit of the President and and the

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Speaker 1: Speaker the books that it's going to be paid for.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's appropriate. We you know, we've under

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Speaker 1: President Trump, the annual deathits are nearly a trillion dollars,

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Speaker 1: and we have to deal with that. So I don't

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Speaker 1: want to add to that something telling you we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about this in October. You would you agree? Well?

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Speaker 1: I do. And I also would just say too, that

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Speaker 1: there's an effort to expand Medicare coverage to dental and

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Speaker 1: too vision and hearing, and I think that's great. I

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Speaker 1: think we should prioritize people who are not on coverage now.

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Speaker 1: So I like the idea of adding coverage for medicure,

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Speaker 1: but not before we make sure that everyone who's not

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Speaker 1: covered is covered. And I think those are a couple

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Speaker 1: of priorities that I have, but I've made those all

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Speaker 1: knowns of the leadership and hope that they're considered. Congress

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Speaker 1: from Scott Peter's Democrat from California, Thanks for bringing us

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Speaker 1: in this whole process here, and thanks for talking with

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Speaker 1: us on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much. Will Peak behind

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Speaker 1: the curtain that was the real thing. Gives you a

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Speaker 1: real sense of the push and pull behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: all within the Democratic Party. And so we turned it

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Speaker 1: to the panel for the remaining moment that we have

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Speaker 1: left here. Rick Davis, I'm just thinking timeline. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about this round Halloween once again, right, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Halloween in the Thanksgiving and Thanksgiving into Christmas potentially. So

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Speaker 1: it's the holiday package. You want to you want to

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Speaker 1: gear which holiday it comes on in. So this is

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Speaker 1: what we fight about. It the Thanksgiving table, Jeannie, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to go into Christmas. This is gonna

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Speaker 1: be infrastructure winter. Joe Matthew, do you both believe that

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Speaker 1: it's not done by the end of the calendar year.

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Speaker 1: I at this point. I don't see it being done,

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Speaker 1: and that's a big problem for Democrats because we are

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Speaker 1: dangerously close then to the mid term and we're already

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Speaker 1: seeing moderates peel off as as you just heard. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well peel offer at least, you know, take a peel

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Speaker 1: off some dollars on this thing. The final price tag, Rick,

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Speaker 1: It may end up actually in that Joe mansion area

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Speaker 1: by the time we're done. Yeah. I think Congressman Peter

432
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: said it right. He's like, I'm not embarrassed by by

433
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: one point five trillion dollar bill, right, mean savings exactly,

434
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: So I think that I think that's where you're gonna head.

435
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: The real question is how hard are some of these

436
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: uh progressives gonna dig in and how long it takes

437
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: to get him back on board. We'll spend more time

438
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: on this later with Rick and Genie. The classic panel

439
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: with us for the hour on Sound On, brought to

440
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: you by Barrish and McGarry, lawyers for the nine eleven community.

441
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: For twenty years, they've been fighting for those who continue

442
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: to get sick from the nine eleven tocsins free healthcare

443
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: and compensation available visit nine eleven Victims dot Com. Up

444
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: next watch Dogs Steve Ellis from Taxpayers for Common Sense.

445
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg

446
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: to New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one

447
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to

448
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: the country Serious XM Channel one ninety and around the

449
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com.

450
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew. Democrats have

451
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: laid out their tax plan and they could be about

452
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: to get into a game of chicken over the debt ceiling.

453
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: We'll see either way. The Budget watch Dog is arking,

454
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: we'll talk about all this next with Steve Ellis, president

455
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: of the group Taxpayers for Common Sense. If the last

456
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 1: half hour here on sound On taught us anything, lawmakers

457
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: still have a lot to figure out. Deadlines be damned.

458
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: Reconciliation could take the rest of the year, according to

459
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: our panel, maybe into next year. And then there's the

460
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: debt ceiling. As I find the headline on the terminal,

461
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: McConnell rebuffs yelling on debt limit, says, up to Democrats,

462
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: I guess I shouldn't have been surprised when I woke

463
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: up to this after what we talked about yesterday, Mitch

464
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: McConnell rejecting an appeal by Treasury Secretary Jennet Yellen Eric

465
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: Wasson writing on the terminal made in a phone call

466
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: that must have been a fun call for Republicans to

467
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: join with Democrats in raising the federal debt ceiling, leaving

468
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: the two sides that odds with potentially weeks to go

469
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: until the limit is breached. An expert on this and

470
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: all of the stories we've been talking about with tax

471
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: and spend is Steve Ellis, President of Taxpayers for Common

472
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Sense with us right now on the program. Steve, it's

473
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: great to have you. I know that you have the

474
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: fiscal cliff notes on this, as I heard on your podcast,

475
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: and so let's get into it here. The debt ceiling,

476
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: according to the Treasury Secretary, is going to be at

477
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: its limit. We're gonna be bumping into that ceiling in

478
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: the middle of the next month. Do you believe Mitch

479
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: McConnell that he will not vote to raise the debt

480
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: ceiling and this is in fact Democrats problem. Well, Hey, Joe,

481
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: thank you very much for having me on, and it's

482
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's clear this is some brinksmanship that's going on,

483
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: and it's a question of who's going to blank and

484
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: who's going to own this increase in in in the

485
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: debt limit. And basically we already set the debt limit

486
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: at the end of July UM, and so now Secretary

487
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: Yelling has been doing so called extraordinary measures to make

488
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: sure we don't reach that cap through the revenues that

489
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: we get in and various not paying for different stuff

490
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: and sort of all sorts of smoke and mirrors. Let's

491
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 1: talk about this just to back up a moment and

492
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: qualify what we are talking about, Steve, because lawmakers like

493
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: to play with this. It's a it's an easy sort

494
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: of political tool. But the fact of the matter is

495
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: this is paying for spending that's already been had. Right

496
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: and as opposed to lawmakers who suggest raising the debt

497
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: ceiling will give us a new credit card to go

498
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: buying stuff, we're paying off the old credit card with

499
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: this hike in the ceiling. That that's exactly right, Joe.

500
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: I mean, so that the current debt limit UM was

501
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: set in the Bipartisan Budget Act of en and basically

502
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: in that bill, they said, Okay, we're just going to

503
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 1: ignore the debt limit and spend until July UM in

504
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: that time frame. If you go back to the numbers

505
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: at the time they set that back in August of

506
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: the debt was at twenty two point three trillion dollars.

507
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: By the time President Biden was sworn into office in

508
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: January of this year, it was twenty seven point seven

509
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: trillion dollars, so more than a five trillion dollar increase.

510
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: And then when they actually set the debt limit, so

511
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 1: when they basically had to put a hard cap on

512
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: it on July three one, it was four trillion dollars.

513
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: So really they've racked up some spending, I mean, seven

514
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: billion dollars in that timeframe. But you're absolutely right that

515
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: so much of the the debt has been what has

516
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: been spent well before um the Democrats were in power,

517
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: are and certainly in the White House, not to by

518
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: the way, you know, suggest that we're strangers to politics

519
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: around here. But when we hear Republicans say that, you know,

520
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: this has to do with Democrats need to spend more.

521
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: This is in fact the Trump credit card. As Nancy

522
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: Pelosi talks about that, we're paying off here. So how

523
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: come it's always a part as an issue, Steve Well,

524
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: because whoever's in power, you know, is recognized is that

525
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: this has to get done. I mean, we cannot afford

526
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: the default on the debt. Um. You're dealing with the

527
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: full faith and credit of the U. S. Treasury. And

528
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: so the people who are the party that's in the

529
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: minority recognizes that the majority is going to own this

530
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: um if something happens, and so they're willing, and an

531
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: irresponsible manner to me um that they're willing to put

532
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: all the play brinksmanship and put all the responsibility on

533
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: the majority. Congressman Jim Plyburn got into this today with

534
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: David Weston on the Bloomberg Program Balance of Power, as

535
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: he looked back at how we got here today. We

536
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: borrowed the money to pay for that tax cut. That's

537
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: a debt that was incurred by the previous administration that

538
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: we have now got to pay for. And I'm glad

539
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: that the Democrats are women the ability up to the

540
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: bar and pay for it. And Mitch McConnell and all

541
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: the other Republicans or it's much responsible, if not most so,

542
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: because we didn't vote for that big tax cut the

543
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: Republicans did, and that's the majority whip speaking there, Steve,

544
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: as you well know, can't whip votes though when you're

545
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: looking for Republicans, so many wonder if Democrats are going

546
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: to be left to handle this alone. Well, and and

547
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: it's a it's a tight rope, Joe. I mean, I

548
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: mean you figure you look at there is basically no

549
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: majority in the Senate. I mean, you have the fifty

550
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: plus the vote from the Vice President, and then you

551
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: have a three vote majority in the House. So they

552
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: can't afford to lose anybody on this as well. Um,

553
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: And so what happens if they don't hike it, I

554
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: guess is the question. We've had lawmakers, Republican lawmakers suggest

555
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: that there's still more cash out there, that this is

556
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: not the crisis that Democrats make it out to be. Well,

557
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: you can only play games with this for so long.

558
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,959
Speaker 1: I mean, the limit is set. It's a twenty eight

559
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: point four trillion dollars. And so Secretary Yelling has been

560
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: not spending money in certain areas, and we're obviously getting

561
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: in some revenue as we go along. Um, but there

562
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: are hard payments, you know, there's military retirement payments that

563
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: have to go in at the beginning of October UM.

564
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: You know, you have a hundred fifty billion dollars less

565
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: that they can play with. And so your question though,

566
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: about what happens if we if we don't do it,

567
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: if we actually reach the debt limit, that's the uncharted territory,

568
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: and that's a scary place to be because that's really

569
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: the full faith and credit of the U. S. Treasury.

570
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: And what that means is people want to buy our debt,

571
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: and I mean people other you know, individuals, foreign countries.

572
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: They buy our debt and we're able to um service

573
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: that debt at a really low rate because it's so

574
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: it's it's it's trusted. And so if as soon as

575
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: you go even if you get too close to that edge,

576
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: but if you go over that edge, particularly all of

577
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: a sudden, the cost of servicing our debt is going

578
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: to go up dramatically. So default is real. And I've

579
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: got less than a minute here, Steve. You're not just

580
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: worried about a potential credit downgrade. We would in fact default.

581
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: How long would that take? You know, I mean that

582
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: could be you know, it's all depending on what is

583
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: what what is really real. I mean, obviously Secretary Yellin

584
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: is trying to get the Republicans to go along with

585
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: this and to do this sooner um. But we're talking

586
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: sometime in October. Looks like is when this is gonna be.

587
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: You know, how to hit the D day, the debt day.

588
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: D day is looming. That's Steve Ellis, president of Taxpayers

589
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: for Common Sense, bypartisan group's got a great podcast too,

590
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: and we thank you Steve for talking with us on

591
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On. We reassemble the panel next to make

592
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: sense of this. Rick and Genie coming in. I'm Joe Matthew.

593
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg you sound on

594
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for spending part

595
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: of your Thursday with us Bloomberg Sound On. We call

596
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: it Little Friday here because it is the fastest hour

597
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: in politics. And by god, we're almost there with the

598
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis. Fascinating

599
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: conversation with the group Taxpayers for Common Sense about the

600
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: debt ceiling. Guys, We've talked about this up and down.

601
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: Jim Clyburn there again the latest Democrat and leadership to say, no,

602
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: this was Trump's credit card, why should we pay for it?

603
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: But it is Rick Davis looking like this is going

604
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: to be Democrats problem. The question is the vehicle right,

605
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: how will they choose to raise the debt ceiling? Does

606
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: this end up in reconciliation? Yeah, this is the classic

607
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: Elections have consequences. Now you're in charge and you have

608
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: to make the decision. And and and look, I mean

609
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: they've missed a great opportunity to put it into reconciliation

610
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: when they got the reconciliation package passing the House and

611
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: introduce in the Senate. So sure the Rules Committee can

612
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: attach us to the vehicle coming out of the House.

613
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: They have a lot of options. Uh, but it seems

614
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: they're still intent on trying to do a standalone bill

615
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: with Republican votes, and uh. Efforts by Janet Yellen and

616
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: and and the President to try and get Republicans on

617
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: board has faced stiff opposition from the minority leader in

618
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: the Senate. And I can't imagine that's going to change

619
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: anytime soon. So uh, I think this is the first

620
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: big challenge that this administration is going to have fiscally

621
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: and It'll be interesting to see where they wind up

622
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: on it. Did the party miss an opportunity, as Rick suggests, Jennie,

623
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if they missed an opportunity, UM,

624
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: not including it. I do think this thing gets through. Um.

625
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: I do think they are making the right case. And

626
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: you played that clip from from David Weston Show earlier

627
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: today with Jim Fiber, and I think he's making the

628
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: right argument for Democrats. So I'm not sure they missed

629
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: an opportunity. I think just listening to your conversation with

630
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Steve is the fact that, as you and Steve said,

631
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: the idea of default is more real now, not just

632
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: a downgrading credit. And that is a very, very scary proposition.

633
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: But I do think it will be resolved. But I

634
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: think this does showcase how entrenched Republicans have really gotten

635
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: on this. We've always raised the debt ceiling. Democrats did

636
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: it during Trump's administration. It's got to be raised. We

637
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: can't play games with the faith and credit of the

638
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: United States. And yet McConnell has dug in on this issue.

639
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: I think is very telling, and I think Democrats are

640
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: right to make that case over and over. So then

641
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: it's maybe in the continuing resolution to fund the government here, Rick,

642
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: although would there be votes for that? Do you scare

643
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: away all the Republicans if you put the debt limit

644
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: in there? Yeah, it's tricky, right, I mean, continuing resolution

645
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: needs sixty votes in the Senate, and a clean continuing

646
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: resolution probably gets that right. They want to see the

647
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: government continue to spend money. Uh and uh so, so yeah,

648
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: I think that's a real complication. The minute that you

649
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: really start to need Republican votes for anything. Uh, you know,

650
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: you've got to listen to what Mitch McConnell's saying. And

651
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: Mitch has been very clear, We're not going to have

652
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: any votes for this debt ceiling increase. We did it

653
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: in the in the Republican administrations, and you do it

654
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: now in the Democratic administration. So look, I'm less convinced

655
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: that there's going to be a default. I don't think

656
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: that there. There hasn't been one, and there's not going

657
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: to be one. I mean, we we talked breathlessly about

658
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: the consequences of that, and this president especially knows uh

659
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: what what that would be like. I mean, this is

660
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: something more you would expect out of President Trump, who

661
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: damned the consequences, and you're going to get some politics

662
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: out of it, but there's no good politics that comes

663
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: with the default. Than you guys heard me mentioned with

664
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: the Heather Bouchet this letter that Nancy Pelosi sent to

665
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: Democrats last night basically saying, you know, don't count your

666
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: chickens here. This may not be as big as we

667
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: think once the Senate parliamentary and gets involved. And we

668
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: talked about this weeks ago. The Dreamers may not be

669
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: in their immigration reform, may not be in their climate

670
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: related initiatives, may not be in there. When do we

671
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: start having a grown up conversation about deadlines? Then, if, if,

672
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: if this thing is not coming together for the rest

673
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: of the year, what are the moderate Democrats, Genie do

674
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: about the bi part as an infrastructure plan that passed

675
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: the Senate longer ago than I can count terms of weeks.

676
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: And remember Josh Gottheimer said time kills deals, and he

677
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: was right about that. And I think we know what

678
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: they are doing, and we've seen it, and you heard

679
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 1: it in your conversation with the congressman. They are getting

680
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: a bit freaked out by the fact that their jobs

681
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: are on the line and the Senate. We heard Joe

682
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: Mansion over the weekend say over and over again he

683
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: wouldn't go to three point five. Much of what they

684
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: are arguing for is not going to be in that bill,

685
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: and yet they are being pushed by their own leadership

686
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: on the House side to vote for things that could

687
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: very well walk them out of jobs. That's a very

688
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: scary proposition. I think it's a nonstarter for many of

689
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: these moderates, and I think it's also dangerous for the

690
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: Democratic Party because they need to hold the House, or

691
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: in order to need to hold the House, they need

692
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: those moderate districts. So I think they've got to be

693
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: very careful how they play this. And Nancy Pelosi is right,

694
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: much of that won't be in the bill. What then

695
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: does Alexandrocasio Cortez and some of these other progressives do

696
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: with that? Well, that's boy, that is the question here, Rick.

697
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: When though, does Nancy Pelosi say, you know what, septembery

698
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: not so much? Yeah, I think that I think genius

699
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: spot on. I mean, these these these progressives, Uh, they

700
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: didn't get Joe Biden elect that the moderates got Joe

701
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: Biden elected. Uh, And this was the criticism is that

702
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: he would become a captive of the progressive left of

703
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: his party because they have all the activists and energy.

704
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: And you see that playing out legislatively right now. If

705
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: if if Joe Biden took a deal with the moderates

706
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: where he had a reconciliation bill of one billion, one

707
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: trillion dollars and an infrastructure bill of a trillion dollars,

708
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: he could sign those things today probably, And and yet

709
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: it's the progressive left that are driving him off a

710
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: cliff financially that his own party won't support. So I

711
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: think Joe Biden's got to return to his roots and

712
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: understand that he was elected as a moderate Democrat for president.

713
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: He had a lot of progressives runninggainst him, and he

714
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: beat them all. And and so uh when you start

715
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: looking at the two thousand twenty two mid terms without

716
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: that uh message, I think the party just runs itself

717
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: off the cliff. These these progressives aren't gonna lose their districts,

718
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: but the moderates can and probably will if this continues

719
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: down the road. It's headed Genie uh Covid came up

720
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: in the President's addressed today in the vaccine mandates that

721
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: he rolled out recently another another shot across the bow

722
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: of Republican governors. It was the Mississippi governor he was

723
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: speaking about today and you know, making politics out of this.

724
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: How much does this economic agenda though, depend on getting

725
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: over this pandemic? And I don't know if you heard

726
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: about this Nicki Minaj thing. Everybody's talking about. Nicki Minaj

727
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: today at the White House sent out an irresponsible tweet

728
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: apparently vaccine hesitant. White House reaches out to make a

729
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: phone call. Is that what we should be doing though,

730
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: bringing in celebrities like a Nicki Minaj, showing them learning

731
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: about the vaccine and maybe having an impact on younger people. Yeah.

732
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: I mean my my head was spinning when I heard

733
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: all this, So I could hear about Nicki Minaj and um,

734
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: you know, I think the White House is playing this right.

735
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: She's got a huge, huge platform. If they could bring

736
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: her in and if they could, you know, engage in conversation,

737
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: that may be helpful with some of her followers and

738
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: people who believe what she is posting and saying. But

739
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: to your earlier question, the pandemic is it for this president?

740
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: It has to be resolved. Everything is connected with it

741
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: or at least, we've got to be moving in the

742
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 1: right direction, and so he has got to push very

743
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: hard on that. The economy and everything else depends on

744
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: us reopening. That requires people being not just masked, but vaccinated.

745
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: And that's why we see the President making this case.

746
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: And I think he's got to feel a little good

747
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: about what happened in California because of course Newsom survived

748
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: and those men dates didn't come back to haunt him.

749
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: So Democrats feeling a little bit better about that. But

750
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, the president, this has got to be top

751
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: on his agenda. Well, if he could lick covid uh,

752
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: it would be a major benefit to the economy. Rick

753
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: wouldn't be too Trumpian to have Nicki Minaj come by

754
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: the Rose Garden get a shot. I wish you had

755
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: not asked me a question about Nicki Minaj. You can

756
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: google who that is. That's all I already did, not

757
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: scaring me. I want to be in the room with

758
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: Rick right now as he explores you know, look, I

759
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: mean it's as Jennie said, I mean, like they look

760
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: at this referendum in California and they say, wow, I

761
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: mean vaccines. We should force everybody to take one. This

762
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: is good politics, and I think that that if they

763
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: didn't have these financial issues to struggle with within their

764
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: own party, that's all they'd be talking about. Uh, and

765
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: it would probably be good for the general health and

766
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: wellness of the of the country. So uh, there there

767
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: are some silver linings in this Biden agenda. He did

768
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: take a hard stand on this and it paid off

769
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 1: in California, and I think he's starting to look now

770
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: at what other states like Virginia, which has got a

771
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: governor's race coming up, where those kinds of things can

772
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: can be important. I just noticed the Republican candidate has

773
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: got a vaccine add out, So um, it's it's I

774
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: think you're seeing some political impacts and these things. How

775
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,959
Speaker 1: how does Nicki Minaj play? Well, you know you're gonna

776
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: have to have a democratic strategist figure out. I was

777
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 1: a disappointed. Nicki Minaj did not join the President today

778
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: in the East Room, didn't even appear at the press

779
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: briefing with Jen Saki, but she apparently was top of

780
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: mine at the White House today. We heard about it

781
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: all day. Following her tweet about hesitancy to the vaccine,

782
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: she said she'd even wear pink if she went to

783
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: the White House following a tweet in which she made

784
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: these claims, not good for the cause. But it turns

785
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: out she was not invited to the White House. They

786
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: did offer her a phone call with a White House

787
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: doctor to be on that call. Mr President, Mr President,

788
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: What kind of impact does it have when celebrities like

789
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj share dubious plaims. We offered a call with

790
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj. Let's get to the beach eight, let's go

791
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: get away. Thanks, what they're gonna start? Nicki Minaj just

792
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: twenty two million Twitter followers? Why not invite her to

793
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: the White House, have a conversation and they get a

794
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: big public say. I appreciate your recommendations on our communications advice, Karen,

795
00:41:51,200 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: you are quite experienced. We offer for to call with

796
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj and one of our doctors to answer questions

797
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: she had about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines.

798
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: In our outreach to celebrities, it follows a pretty standard process.

799
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: We've officials who are working on these issues and engage

800
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: in regular conversations, offered answer questions. Offered to do that privately,

801
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes it's done publicly. Our hope is that Anyone

802
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: who has a big platform is going to project accurate

803
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: information about the effectiveness of the vaccine. Thanks to Rick

804
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: and Jeannie, the fastest hour in Politics. We'll meet you

805
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: back here tomorrow. The Friday version. I'm Joe Matthew. This

806
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg.