Speaker 1: Hi, Betrayal listeners, It's Andrea Gunning. We're off this week
Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back next week with a
Speaker 1: brand new story. This week, we wanted to re release
Speaker 1: a listener favorite, Donielle's story. We originally released it in
Speaker 1: two parts, but for this re release, we're combining both parts
Speaker 1: for you so you can hear her full story all
Speaker 1: at once. One thing we love about Donnielle's story is
Speaker 1: the ending where she finds love again, and as you'll
Speaker 1: hear in the episode, she and her new husband got
Speaker 1: married at the Thanksgiving table. They said their vows between
Speaker 1: dinner and dessert, surrounded by all of their family. We
Speaker 1: will be back next week with a brand new episode,
Speaker 1: and in the meantime for those celebrating happy Thanksgiving. We
Speaker 1: are so grateful to all of you, our listeners. Thank
Speaker 1: you for everything. So without further ado, here's Donnielle's story.
Speaker 2: One of my children saw his dad dressed all in black,
Speaker 2: and he said that it seemed like his dad was
Speaker 2: mad at him because he yelled at him to go
Speaker 2: back to bed, and the night before that he had
Speaker 2: actually told my oldest child to rap a sledgehammer that
Speaker 2: we had that had a really bright yellow handle in
Speaker 2: black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him
Speaker 2: to wear.
Speaker 1: And she was like, Okay, Dad, I'm Anderrea gunning. And
Speaker 1: this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust
Speaker 1: the most and the deceptions that change everything. One night
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, Danielle Oliver Chauvet was awoken by the
Speaker 1: FBI in state police. They were pointing guns at her,
Speaker 1: demanding to know where her husband was. That night, she
Speaker 1: learned the man she had spent twenty years with was
Speaker 1: hiding some very big secrets. This is don Yelle's first
Speaker 1: time telling her story. She's been reluctant to share what
Speaker 1: she went through because, as you'll hear in part two,
Speaker 1: her husband has other victims. She wants to be respectful
Speaker 1: of their experience and suffering. But this episode isn't about
Speaker 1: her husband's crimes. It's about the twenty year marriage Danielle
Speaker 1: built with him, the ways he deceived and violated her,
Speaker 1: and the shocking betrayal that ended it all. It's also
Speaker 1: the story of being totally in the dark about your
Speaker 1: partner's double life.
Speaker 2: I used to watch Lifetime shows and I used to
Speaker 2: be that person saying oh, she had to know something.
Speaker 2: So I totally understand why people say things like that.
Speaker 2: But until you are actually walking in those shoes and
Speaker 2: living with a person who can be completely double faced,
Speaker 2: living a completely separate life, all I know is the
Speaker 2: life that he had with me and our kids. That's
Speaker 2: all I saw. He was able to do everything else
Speaker 2: completely separate.
Speaker 1: Danielle grew up in a happy, tight knit family in California.
Speaker 2: Family is very important to me. We were just over
Speaker 2: in my parents, all of my siblings, and we all
Speaker 2: just get along really well. There's hardly ever any arguments
Speaker 2: within our family, and when there is, it's results within
Speaker 2: the day.
Speaker 1: Growing up, Donielle's parents were her role models. They had
Speaker 1: a respectful and happy marriage. It was an environment that
Speaker 1: nurtured her easy going and trusting nature.
Speaker 2: I had a really good childhood, and so I didn't
Speaker 2: grow up with a lot of strife or bad things
Speaker 2: happening in my childhood where that trust was broken down.
Speaker 1: She was raised with a strong sense of faith. That's
Speaker 1: still one of her core values.
Speaker 2: I know some religions could be like really strict, do this,
Speaker 2: you can't do this. I wouldn't even say that. Mine
Speaker 2: is a religion. It's a relationship with christ.
Speaker 1: Donielle is one of those rare people who loved high school.
Speaker 1: She was popular and she had a long time high
Speaker 1: school boyfriend named Billy.
Speaker 2: When we were teenagers. Everybody thought for sure that we
Speaker 2: were just going to be together forever, you know, we
Speaker 2: were the thing.
Speaker 1: Right before their senior year of high school, Billy proposed
Speaker 1: to her and she said yes.
Speaker 2: But then I actually had to move to Hawaii because
Speaker 2: my dad was working for a military and we moved there.
Speaker 1: She ended up spending her senior year in Hawaii. Then
Speaker 1: she got accepted to college in Illinois. She was ready
Speaker 1: to start a new life there without her high school boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Giving up her first love was hard, but she wanted
Speaker 1: to prioritize her independence. Danielle thrived in college. She loved
Speaker 1: her major, which was art, and she also loved going
Speaker 1: to Bible study on campus. That's where she met Chad.
Speaker 2: He was raising his hand and answering the questions, like
Speaker 2: right away, and he was answering the way I would
Speaker 2: have answered those questions, right in line with the way
Speaker 2: I believed.
Speaker 1: So I was attracted to that immediately. She knew Chad
Speaker 1: was special.
Speaker 2: The first time I met him, I said to my
Speaker 2: parents when I got back that I was going to
Speaker 2: marry him. So it was pretty much love at first sight.
Speaker 1: She felt comfortable around Chad. It was easy, like they'd
Speaker 1: known each other for years.
Speaker 2: We actually met at my parents' house and watched a
Speaker 2: couple movies and I made a maasagna and he changed
Speaker 2: my oil in my car. That was our first date.
Speaker 1: From the start, Danielle was serious about Chad.
Speaker 2: When i'm getting someone that I'm deciding whether or not
Speaker 2: this person is the person I want to marry. So
Speaker 2: I was looking for specific things that I wanted in
Speaker 2: a husband when I was dating him.
Speaker 1: And Chad checked all the boxes.
Speaker 2: There was lots of things. He grew up in a
Speaker 2: Christian home. He had a good relationship with his parents.
Speaker 2: He was business minded, like he was able to support me.
Speaker 1: Everything about him felt right. He was pursuing a degree
Speaker 1: in finance, He had dreams of starting his own business,
Speaker 1: and like her, he also wanted a big family. But
Speaker 1: most of all, she just loved being around him.
Speaker 2: I had fun with him, you know, we would laugh
Speaker 2: about lots of things. I was just attracted to the
Speaker 2: way I felt around him.
Speaker 1: While they were dating, he went above and beyond to
Speaker 1: woo her.
Speaker 2: Something about Chad, you have to know he likes to
Speaker 2: do everything big. It always has to be the best
Speaker 2: and the grandest and the most showy.
Speaker 1: It's not who she is, but Chad said she deserved
Speaker 1: the best and it was flattering. After about two years
Speaker 1: of dating, he made a particularly grand gesture. He bought
Speaker 1: her an expensive dress, rented a limousine, and took them
Speaker 1: to a dinner theater.
Speaker 2: And during that intermission he excused himself. I thought he
Speaker 2: was going to use the restroom, but he actually turns
Speaker 2: out had set up beforehand with the theater that he
Speaker 2: would go on stage and asked me to marry him
Speaker 2: from the stage. And then he got down on his knee.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was quite the show.
Speaker 1: She said. Yes, he brought her out of her comfort
Speaker 1: zone and it felt like a fairy tale.
Speaker 2: I was one hundred percent this is the one I
Speaker 2: had to spend the rest of my life with.
Speaker 1: Chad was involved in every step of the wedding planning,
Speaker 1: which Donielle loved, and he also wanted to go to
Speaker 1: pre marriage counseling to discuss their expectations.
Speaker 2: We discussed who would be the breadwinner in the home.
Speaker 2: You know what would be the different roles of both
Speaker 2: husband and wife as far as who did what in
Speaker 2: the household. It was thoroughly discussed how our marriage would
Speaker 2: go before we got married. I mean, as far as
Speaker 2: you can. We did know that I wanted to be
Speaker 2: a stay at home mom, so that was talked about.
Speaker 1: Danielle had been managing her own money in her early twenties,
Speaker 1: and although she was good at it, it was a
Speaker 1: relief to be marrying someone who had expertise in finance.
Speaker 1: It made her feel safe, and so they agreed that
Speaker 1: while she would manage the household, Chad would manage the money.
Speaker 2: And I had full trust in Chad to be able
Speaker 2: to do that too, because of his business degree. He
Speaker 2: was really good at money, and so he went to
Speaker 2: school for it. I didn't have any worries about him
Speaker 2: taking over the finances for the family.
Speaker 1: She was happy with this arrangement. She's a do it
Speaker 1: yourself kind of person. It's an attitude that's well suited
Speaker 1: to raising kids and running the household.
Speaker 2: My dishwasher broke down several years ago, and I wasn't
Speaker 2: about to pay somebody because I'm going to figure out
Speaker 2: how to fix it. I laid all the flooring in
Speaker 2: the house that I'm in right now. I didn't know
Speaker 2: how to do that, but I looked it up, just
Speaker 2: went on YouTube and figured it out. So I'm that
Speaker 2: type of person.
Speaker 1: After they got married, the couple decided to move to
Speaker 1: Chad's hometown in Illinois. To call it a small town
Speaker 1: is an understatement. The entire population could fit in one
Speaker 1: high school football stadium.
Speaker 2: Well, the town we live in, Erie is only nineteen hundred.
Speaker 1: It's small, small, but perfectly suited to the life that
Speaker 1: they were building, a life that centered around family and community. Plus,
Speaker 1: Chad had grown up there, so he knew nearly everyone
Speaker 1: in town, and everyone seemed to adore him. In fact,
Speaker 1: he'd been the high school valedictorian. Once they moved back
Speaker 1: to Erie, the couple also joined Chad's church, the church
Speaker 1: he grew up in.
Speaker 2: We were really involved with that church, and his parents
Speaker 2: went to that church too, and we led a Sunday
Speaker 2: school together. A couple, their.
Speaker 1: Life was falling into place. A happy ma marriage, a
Speaker 1: strong foundation based on shared values, a community that supported them,
Speaker 1: and a church they felt welcomed by. And Chad was
Speaker 1: making progress in his career. He began the certification process
Speaker 1: to become a financial advisor. He wanted to start his
Speaker 1: own firm.
Speaker 2: He did it all online. I went through classes online
Speaker 2: and got his certificate online and all that.
Speaker 1: She was proud of him, and for the time being,
Speaker 1: she kept working too.
Speaker 2: I also worked for the post office for a little bit,
Speaker 2: but that was not part of our marriage plan. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to be a working mom. I wanted to
Speaker 2: be a stay at home mom. Pretty much as soon
Speaker 2: as we got married, we started trying.
Speaker 1: But conceiving their first baby didn't happen as quickly as
Speaker 1: Danielle hoped. The months turned into a year, and during
Speaker 1: that year, Chad made a shocking confession.
Speaker 2: He came home from work and sat down and said,
Speaker 2: I need to tell you something really important and just said,
Speaker 2: I had an accounter with a guy in the bathroom,
Speaker 2: and I think we need to go see somebody and
Speaker 2: talk to like a counselor about it. And so I
Speaker 2: was just like, what is going on? It just blindsided me,
Speaker 2: Like what just happened.
Speaker 1: She asked him point blank if he was gay. He
Speaker 1: said no, he wasn't. She wanted more details about what
Speaker 1: actually happened, who it was with, and what they did.
Speaker 2: But he never really gave a straight answer. It was
Speaker 2: just we need to go talk to somebody, like a
Speaker 2: counselor about it.
Speaker 1: Danielle was shaken and confused about her husband's confession to
Speaker 1: a one time playing, but at the same time, Ched
Speaker 1: was doing everything he could to make it right. He
Speaker 1: confessed to it immediately, he wanted to get help, and
Speaker 1: most importantly, he was coming to her with sincere remorse.
Speaker 2: He was crying, I was crying. He was saying sorry.
Speaker 1: Chad wanted to get help quickly, and so the next
Speaker 1: day they did.
Speaker 2: We actually went to the pastor and asked for advice
Speaker 2: about who we should see as a marriage counselor for us.
Speaker 2: We were given a name of a Christian counselor.
Speaker 1: They had multiple sessions with the counselor, some sessions together
Speaker 1: as a couple and some separately. During a one on
Speaker 1: one meeting, the counselor gave Danielle some advice.
Speaker 2: He advised me, you should really think carefully about this marriage.
Speaker 2: You know, you actually have a right to end this
Speaker 2: marriage if he is being unfaithful to you.
Speaker 1: The counselor said he'd seen a situation like this before,
Speaker 1: and he wanted Donielle to know that divorce was an option.
Speaker 2: I understood that. I knew that that's something that it's
Speaker 2: perfectly fine for me to file for a divorce, But
Speaker 2: I didn't want to. I wanted to make this marriage work.
Speaker 2: I didn't even want the word divorce to come up
Speaker 2: in our marriage. Like when I made a commitment in
Speaker 2: our marriage at the wedding ceremony, my promise was a promise.
Speaker 2: I didn't take my vowels lightly in sickness and in
Speaker 2: health a richard for poorr. I was going to walk
Speaker 2: through it with him. I wanted to help him resolve
Speaker 2: whatever it was that he was going through because I
Speaker 2: loved him and I wanted our marriage to work.
Speaker 1: This one infidelity, it felt small and manageable, especially compared
Speaker 1: to the years they'd spend together getting to know each other,
Speaker 1: studying the Bible together, and building a life. She really
Speaker 1: trusted Chad.
Speaker 2: I felt like I could one trust him even though
Speaker 2: he had done whatever he had done. I believe him
Speaker 2: one percent.
Speaker 1: They got a work book on overcoming infidelity and even
Speaker 1: did the homework together, and they decided to lean on
Speaker 1: their faith to help them rebuild their relationship. Church became
Speaker 1: an even bigger part of their lives.
Speaker 2: He was an elder in the church. We jointly were
Speaker 2: leaders for kids Christian camps. We were very involved in
Speaker 2: our faith.
Speaker 1: Their marriage began looking up, especially when a year later
Speaker 1: they welcomed their first baby, a baby girl.
Speaker 2: She was an amazing first child, super easy baby, smiling
Speaker 2: all the time, happy, alert. It was a great, great
Speaker 2: first mom experience.
Speaker 1: Danielle was on top of the world, so filled with
Speaker 1: love for her first daughter and her young family. It
Speaker 1: confirmed to her that she really did want to be
Speaker 1: a stay at home mom. She just felt whole.
Speaker 2: People that we would meet walking through a mall always
Speaker 2: stop and say, Oh, you have the cutest baby. She's
Speaker 2: the cutest thing I've ever seen, and your family is
Speaker 2: so cute.
Speaker 1: The difficulties she and Chad faced in the first year
Speaker 1: of marriage started to feel like they were in the
Speaker 1: rear view mirror.
Speaker 2: At that point, I felt totally in love with him
Speaker 2: and close to him. I felt like I had the
Speaker 2: perfect life.
Speaker 1: That baby would be the first of six.
Speaker 2: I knew that you could get pregnant even when you
Speaker 2: were still nursing, and before you had your first cycle
Speaker 2: after pregnancy. I didn't think it was going to happen
Speaker 2: to me, but it did.
Speaker 1: Soon Donielle's life became consumed by full time childcare. As
Speaker 1: their kids got older, she started homeschooling them, and she
Speaker 1: loved every minute of it.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have it any other way. And a lot
Speaker 2: of people are like, wow, six kids, that's a lot,
Speaker 2: but you know, each one of them is unique and
Speaker 2: has their own personality. Each of them is just amazing.
Speaker 2: I love it. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: With a growing family came more financial demands, but luckily
Speaker 1: Chad's business was taking off. They even had the ability
Speaker 1: to upgrade their house.
Speaker 2: He had been starting to look at this property that
Speaker 2: he really wanted. It was a huge house, way bigger
Speaker 2: than we needed. Enormous, huge living room, huge family, a
Speaker 2: huge dining room, huge huge master bedroom, you know, basement
Speaker 2: that looked like a bowling alley, And so he started
Speaker 2: looking at it and dreaming about it and eventually decided
Speaker 2: that he was going to try to purchase it.
Speaker 1: Danielle didn't think it was the most practical choice, but
Speaker 1: the house made him happy. After they moved in, he
Speaker 1: tried to tell her how to run the house, but
Speaker 1: she stood her ground. She trusted him to handle the finances,
Speaker 1: so when it came to the housework, he needed to
Speaker 1: trust her.
Speaker 2: He wanted me to do things a certain way, like
Speaker 2: do laundry on a certain day, do the dishes on
Speaker 2: a certain day, or you know, do dusting on a
Speaker 2: certain day. And I was like, no, I will do
Speaker 2: it when it needs to be done. When I see
Speaker 2: that it needs doing, I'll do it, you know.
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of things that needed dusting.
Speaker 1: Chad was a collector. It was a quirk that Danielle accepted.
Speaker 2: Precious Moments, figurines, and he was very much in a
Speaker 2: Hallmark fan, so he had millions of Hallmark ornaments, tons
Speaker 2: of DVDs. I mean we had two huge walls full
Speaker 2: of DVDs.
Speaker 1: They loved watching movies as a family, and after the
Speaker 1: kids went to bed, the couple would watch their favorite TV.
Speaker 2: Shows, Dexter and Breaking Bad.
Speaker 1: Every summer, Danielle, Chad and their six kids would take
Speaker 1: family road trips.
Speaker 2: Stone the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore. We had all the
Speaker 2: tourist places in the United States, so we had a
Speaker 2: lot of really fun times as family.
Speaker 1: On these trips, they'd stay in huge rental homes. Chad
Speaker 1: always wanted the best of the best for the family, and.
Speaker 2: They were very nice, very nice rented houses. Some of them.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, guys, don't touch anything, you know,
Speaker 2: like expensive paintings on the walls and glass decorations.
Speaker 1: One summer, about fifteen years into their marriage, the family
Speaker 1: was on one of their regular road trips, and on
Speaker 1: this trip, their rental home was in a remote area.
Speaker 2: I woke up around tween in the morning. I know,
Speaker 2: it was the middle of the night. All the kids
Speaker 2: were asleep, and I got up to go to the
Speaker 2: bathroom or something and turned over and he was not
Speaker 2: in bed with me. I looked around the house to
Speaker 2: see if he was just up somewhere. He was not there.
Speaker 2: I went out into the garage area. The car was gone,
Speaker 2: so I started being like, where did he go? There
Speaker 2: was no note as far as he left somewhere. He
Speaker 2: didn't leave a message on my phone. He was just gone.
Speaker 1: It was the early two thousands, so she didn't have
Speaker 1: a smartphone to look at his location. She started to
Speaker 1: worry that something terrible happened.
Speaker 2: So I started calling around to the hospital around the
Speaker 2: area and is there any child skipper admitted into this hospital. No, ma'am,
Speaker 2: thank you, call the next hospital.
Speaker 1: Around three am, the phone rang. It was Chat.
Speaker 2: And he said he was at Walmart. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: why are you at Walmart? I just thought I would
Speaker 2: pick up some stuff. But you know, you can kind
Speaker 2: of tell when somebody's calling from the middle of a store.
Speaker 2: Hear the hum of everything. There was no shopping cart sounds,
Speaker 2: no like cashier beeping and stuff. There was none of that.
Speaker 2: It did not sound like he was in a shopping area.
Speaker 2: I hung up the phone and just was like, how
Speaker 2: what is happening. I don't understand. Says he's are in Walmart,
Speaker 2: that it's hours away. That doesn't make any sense. And
Speaker 2: I just sat in confusion, shaking until he got home.
Speaker 1: When Chad got back, he tried to explain it away,
Speaker 1: and he apologized.
Speaker 2: He said, I'm sorry I didn't tell you where I
Speaker 2: was going. You know, everything's fine, You're good, the kids
Speaker 2: are good. I'm back, We're safe. He blew it over.
Speaker 1: Whenever they got in a disagreement, this is what he'd
Speaker 1: tell her.
Speaker 2: His favorite phrase was, don't make a mountain out of
Speaker 2: a mole hill. You know, you just get really emotional
Speaker 2: about things. It's okay, you know, calm down.
Speaker 1: Always made me feel like I was crazy abandoning the
Speaker 1: family in a rental house in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night with no good explanation. It just didn't sit right
Speaker 1: with her, So Donielle called her mom.
Speaker 2: She was like, oh, wow, yeah, that is really weird.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're okay. You know, I'm glad it all
Speaker 2: worked out, but that is really weird.
Speaker 1: Donielle was the full time caretaker for six children under fifteen.
Speaker 1: She didn't have the energy to fight with her husband.
Speaker 2: I didn't confront him. That's one of my personality quirks
Speaker 2: is I don't like confrontation. I would rather just not
Speaker 2: talk about it than have a huge argument about something,
Speaker 2: which is not healthy. I think it's much healthier to
Speaker 2: communicate and work it out. But at that point, I
Speaker 2: just didn't want to deal with it.
Speaker 1: Plus, whenever she did question him, it always ended up
Speaker 1: coming back on her.
Speaker 2: On the rare occasion when I would ask questions, I
Speaker 2: would be shut down and told I was crazy or
Speaker 2: that is totally not how it went. You have blown
Speaker 2: this out of proportion and you don't remember the actual
Speaker 2: fact that actually happened. This is how it actually happened.
Speaker 1: When Donielle woke up on a family vacation to find
Speaker 1: her husband missing. He said he was picking up something
Speaker 1: for work at a Walmart in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: She didn't quite buy the story, but she knew Chad
Speaker 1: was busier than ever growing his financial advising firm. Around
Speaker 1: the same time, he decided to start making passive income
Speaker 1: by buying rental properties in town. It started with one
Speaker 1: small house, too, then an apartment building in their hometown.
Speaker 1: He was so busy that he often worked from home
Speaker 1: at nights. He renovated their basement to become his home office.
Speaker 1: He even put in a king sized bed.
Speaker 2: I didn't understand why you would need a bed in
Speaker 2: your office, but he insisted on having it, and his
Speaker 2: reasons were that if he needed a nap, he could
Speaker 2: just hop in the bed and take a quick nap
Speaker 2: and then get back to work.
Speaker 1: It bothered her him staying up late like this and
Speaker 1: sleeping in his office. It also bothered her that he
Speaker 1: locked the door. He said it was a security measure
Speaker 1: because he had important financial documents in there.
Speaker 2: And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, well,
Speaker 2: how do you work at night? If you are a
Speaker 2: financial advisor, you can't meet with clients at night. So
Speaker 2: it was just very confusing to me. And I do
Speaker 2: remember one time just crying my eyes out to him, saying,
Speaker 2: I really want you to sleep with me. You know,
Speaker 2: at night, I just feel closer to when we're sleeping together.
Speaker 2: I feel like we're more like roommates.
Speaker 1: He started coming to bed with her until she fell asleep,
Speaker 1: then he would slip out and go back to work.
Speaker 1: She would only realize it when she woke up and
Speaker 1: found him gone.
Speaker 2: One night, I actually got up out of bed and
Speaker 2: was knocking on his basement door, and I heard no answer,
Speaker 2: And so I actually got in the car and was
Speaker 2: driving around, thinking maybe I would see his car somewhere.
Speaker 2: I never did, but I got to that point where
Speaker 2: I was like starting to look to see if I
Speaker 2: could find anything.
Speaker 1: She never found any proof that her husband was cheating
Speaker 1: or having an affair. She didn't have the energy to
Speaker 1: start a fight with him. He insisted on sleeping in
Speaker 1: the basement. Eventually she became resigned to the fact she
Speaker 1: couldn't change his mind.
Speaker 2: At that point in our marriage, I felt very distant
Speaker 2: from him. I felt like there was a wall up
Speaker 2: and we never would discuss anything. If I ever wanted
Speaker 2: to talk about anything, it was always I'm too tired,
Speaker 2: or can we talk about this tomorrow, or let's talk
Speaker 2: about this this weekend. But nothing ever got talked about.
Speaker 1: In this period where Chad was sleeping in the basement
Speaker 1: office and they were bickering, Danielle knew that their marriage
Speaker 1: needed to improve, so she saw it help for herself.
Speaker 2: I actually went and saw a counselor a couple times
Speaker 2: on my own because I felt like me having these
Speaker 2: issues with our marriage was kind of my fault. I
Speaker 2: felt like there was something wrong with me not feeling
Speaker 2: close to him. But I wanted our marriage to be
Speaker 2: a really good marriage, and I didn't feel that it
Speaker 2: was a good marriage.
Speaker 1: She even suggested they try counseling again as a couple,
Speaker 1: but this time Chad resisted.
Speaker 2: He refused to go to more than one or two
Speaker 2: sessions with me. He felt like it was useless or
Speaker 2: he didn't want to tell somebody else our problems.
Speaker 1: With each passing month, Chad spent more and more time
Speaker 1: out of the house, renovating the rental properties and some nights.
Speaker 1: Tenants would call with emergencies.
Speaker 2: There would be nights where he would say, Oh, I
Speaker 2: gotta go there's a sewage leak. I have to go
Speaker 2: really quick and fix the sewage leak.
Speaker 1: Despite their rocky few years, she still trusted him. She
Speaker 1: had to.
Speaker 2: You can't have a marriage without trust. It doesn't work.
Speaker 2: You know, if one of the partners say I'm going
Speaker 2: to go do this outside the home, you have to
Speaker 2: trust that they're actually doing what they're saying they're doing.
Speaker 2: Like if I say I'm going to go shopping, he
Speaker 2: has to trust that I'm actually shopping. If he says
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to, you know, fix the sewage
Speaker 2: system in his apartments, I have to trust that he's
Speaker 2: actually doing that. Otherwise there's no relationships.
Speaker 1: Plus, the rental properties added financial security to their lives.
Speaker 1: She believed that at the end of the day, he
Speaker 1: was working so hard in order to provide for the family.
Speaker 1: She often overheard him practicing conversations he needed to have
Speaker 1: for work.
Speaker 2: He had this weird quirk where if he was going
Speaker 2: to have a conversation with somebody, he would write down
Speaker 2: the conversation that he was going to have and then
Speaker 2: memorize it, and then I would often see him like
Speaker 2: pacing and doing weird things with his hands and with
Speaker 2: his mouth. I think he was like rehearsing in his
Speaker 2: mind how the conversation would go and what he would
Speaker 2: say in response to their responses.
Speaker 1: There was one big meeting in particular Chad was preparing for.
Speaker 1: It was with an older couple that went to their church,
Speaker 1: a couple that taught Sunday school. They had known Chad
Speaker 1: for nearly his whole life, and they were wealthy. Chad
Speaker 1: set up a meeting with them to pitch his financial
Speaker 1: advising services.
Speaker 2: He was trying really hard to get them to be
Speaker 2: one of his clients.
Speaker 1: In the end, they decided not to use him. He
Speaker 1: was dejected. He'd been counting on their business. After that
Speaker 1: meeting didn't go as planned, he started talking about selling
Speaker 1: his financial advising business and instead getting into the storage industry.
Speaker 2: There's a little plot of land that would be perfect
Speaker 2: for storage units. So he had said that, you know,
Speaker 2: we're going to buy this land over here and I'm
Speaker 2: going to start building storage units, and so we need
Speaker 2: to set up this LLC.
Speaker 1: He wanted Danielle to sign paperwork to help set up
Speaker 1: the business.
Speaker 2: If we have he as a president, then it's better
Speaker 2: for taxes because you're a woman.
Speaker 1: He asked her to go to the bank with him
Speaker 1: that day to get it set up, and there, out
Speaker 1: in public, she noticed that her husband looked disheveled.
Speaker 2: He was not bathed, he didn't shave. I was surprised
Speaker 2: that he went to the bank in the state that
Speaker 2: he was in. I just thought, well, he must be
Speaker 2: so tired. He's trying to sell his financial business, and
Speaker 2: he's trying to get these storage units ready, and he's,
Speaker 2: you know, he's not getting much sleep, so he just
Speaker 2: must be really stressed out.
Speaker 1: Later that day, one of Danielle's kids came to her.
Speaker 1: He said that last night he'd seen something strange in
Speaker 1: the driveway of their house.
Speaker 2: One of my children said that he got up and
Speaker 2: saw his dad dressed all in black, and he said
Speaker 2: that it seemed like Chad was mad at him because
Speaker 2: he yelled at him to go back to bed.
Speaker 1: This was alarming because another one of her kids had
Speaker 1: confessed something bizarre.
Speaker 2: The night before that he had actually told my oldest
Speaker 2: child to wrap a sledgehammer that we had that had
Speaker 2: a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and
Speaker 2: find a black raincoat for him, and she was like, okay, Dad.
Speaker 1: Immediately she tried to get in touch with Chad, but
Speaker 1: he wasn't answering his phone. After they went to the bank,
Speaker 1: he'd left the house to work on a rental property.
Speaker 2: There were several rental places that he owned that he
Speaker 2: was either renovating or was currently renting. I texted him
Speaker 2: asking if he could call me as soon as possible.
Speaker 2: I was starting to feel like, Okay, what's going on.
Speaker 2: I hope he's okay. I hope he's not in an accident.
Speaker 2: He called shortly after and explained that he had accidentally
Speaker 2: fallen asleep at the rental and that he was still
Speaker 2: feeling a little disoriented, but reassured me that he was fine.
Speaker 1: If it sounds like Danielle is reading off of a
Speaker 1: piece of paper, it's because she is. She's reading from
Speaker 1: a written statement documenting this day.
Speaker 2: Nothing is as it seems, absolutely nothing. This is my
Speaker 2: living nightmare and what I can remember that has happened
Speaker 2: in the last few days. At four to twenty two pm,
Speaker 2: I texted him asking if he was okay. Response. I
Speaker 2: texted again at five six PM and His response was
Speaker 2: yep you. I told him I was just wondering what happened,
Speaker 2: and he texted what do you mean? And then around
Speaker 2: five point thirty he called and said he was sorry
Speaker 2: he didn't see my text and that he must have
Speaker 2: been in the basement and hadn't gotten it right away.
Speaker 1: That night, Chad didn't come home for dinner. At the time,
Speaker 1: she assumed he'd fallen asleep at the rental property again,
Speaker 1: but she couldn't leave her six small children to go
Speaker 1: check on him, so around eleven PM, after putting the
Speaker 1: kids to bed, she went to sleep herself.
Speaker 2: Next thing I heard was banging and ranking glass and
Speaker 2: then kneeling state police state police hands in the air.
Speaker 2: I came out in my bedroom with no glasses on,
Speaker 2: hands in the air, wondering if they were actually police
Speaker 2: because I can't see very f I can only see
Speaker 2: at a foot in front of me without it being blurry.
Speaker 2: In my mind, I was thinking, well, well, either I'm
Speaker 2: being robbed and they're posing as state police, or something's
Speaker 2: happening and I have no idea why there's state police
Speaker 2: in my house with a gun pointed at me.
Speaker 1: It was becoming very clear, very quickly. This was actually
Speaker 1: the state police and the FBI. There wasn't a mistake.
Speaker 1: They were looking for Chad and they were incredibly serious.
Speaker 2: They asked if anyone else was in the house, and
Speaker 2: I said, yes, just me and the kids, assuming Chad
Speaker 2: was at the rental. My whole mouth got super dry.
Speaker 2: I could not hardly even talk. I asked them if
Speaker 2: I could go back into the bedroom to get some water.
Speaker 2: I kept water by my bed, and they're like, no,
Speaker 2: you can't go anywhere. You have to stay right here.
Speaker 2: I wasn't even allowed to wake up my kids. They
Speaker 2: actually went and woke up all of my kids. They
Speaker 2: were asking if there was hiding places in the house,
Speaker 2: and it threw me for a loop because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I mean, my kids hide in mental places on my
Speaker 2: I hide and seek.
Speaker 1: Then the police asked her about the elderly couple that
Speaker 1: went to their church, the ones Chad wanted as clients.
Speaker 2: Why are you asking me questions about them? And where
Speaker 2: is my husband?
Speaker 1: Danielle Oliver Chauve woke up in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night on February eighth, twenty seventeen to find her house
Speaker 1: swarmed with police and FBI agents.
Speaker 2: Something's happening, and I have no idea why there's state
Speaker 2: police in my house with a gunpoint at me. So
Speaker 2: I think at that point they were suspecting me. They
Speaker 2: thought I was involved.
Speaker 1: But a suspect in what Danielle would soon find out.
Speaker 1: Chan Skipper, her husband of nearly twenty years and the
Speaker 1: father of their six children, hadn't come home that night.
Speaker 1: He said he'd been renovating one of their rental properties.
Speaker 1: The police were screaming questions at her about where Chad was,
Speaker 1: asking if she had any hiding places in the house,
Speaker 1: and most confusing of all, the police were asking about
Speaker 1: an elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.
Speaker 2: Why are you asking me questions about them? And where
Speaker 2: is my husband?
Speaker 1: The police wouldn't give her any information about what was
Speaker 1: happening or why they were at her house, but it
Speaker 1: was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent. The
Speaker 1: police took her in and began a long interrogation.
Speaker 2: I went into the interrogation room and they started asking
Speaker 2: me questions. They asked me about this couple, and I
Speaker 2: was thinking, that's a weird question out of the glue.
Speaker 2: Why would you ask me specifically about these people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we know them for sure, We've known them for a
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 1: They were also asking questions about the family's finances, questions
Speaker 1: Donielle just didn't have the answers to.
Speaker 2: I was shaking. I was just so confused, like why
Speaker 2: are you asking me this? All I was worried about
Speaker 2: was his safety, like if he was still alive. It
Speaker 2: didn't even dawn on me that it could be what
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 1: After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go. She
Speaker 1: went to a friend's house, where her kids were waiting
Speaker 1: for her. She repeatedly tried to get in touch with
Speaker 1: Chad without any reply. Then first thing the next morning,
Speaker 1: her phone rang. It was Chad's father.
Speaker 2: He asked me, do you know where Chad is? And
Speaker 2: I said, no, do you I said, I don't know anything.
Speaker 2: If you know anything, just tell me what's going on,
Speaker 2: because I need to know what's wrong with my husband
Speaker 2: and where he is. And his dad just said there
Speaker 2: was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped,
Speaker 2: and the rumor is also that Chad did it. My
Speaker 2: brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what now,
Speaker 2: that's impossible. This is Chad. We're talking about that rumor's wrong,
Speaker 2: and I was thinking, there's just no way that it's
Speaker 2: actually my husband. I know my husband would never do
Speaker 2: anything like this. That's not who he is.
Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been
Speaker 1: missing for three days. We're not saying their names because
Speaker 1: Donielle wants to respect their privacy. Before this, they were friends,
Speaker 1: and Donnielle believes that their story is their families to tell,
Speaker 1: just like her story is hers to tell. So for
Speaker 1: this episode, she's going to call them his victims.
Speaker 2: I had known them since I had met Chad. He
Speaker 2: had known them since the time he was born because
Speaker 2: they were part of his church. They were our Sunday
Speaker 2: school teachers. We would often go over to their house
Speaker 2: and some it would have like a pool party. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it would be a Bible study. So we knew them
Speaker 2: really well. They were amazing people.
Speaker 1: The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had
Speaker 1: walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check
Speaker 1: for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars from her own
Speaker 1: savings account. Before the teller cut the check, the woman
Speaker 1: slipped her a note she was being held for ransom.
Speaker 1: Her captor was waiting down the block with her husband
Speaker 1: in the trunk. If she didn't return to the car
Speaker 1: with the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband.
Speaker 1: She needed to walk out of that bank check in hand,
Speaker 1: so they gave it to her and let her go,
Speaker 1: and as soon as she walked out of the door,
Speaker 1: the teller called the police. That call initiated a statewide
Speaker 1: search for the kidnapped couple and their captor. Immediately it
Speaker 1: became the top story on the local news.
Speaker 3: It all started just before five pm on Wednesday, when
Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office received a call from First Trust in
Speaker 3: Savings Bank in Albany.
Speaker 4: The investigators are working with the FBI, State Police at
Speaker 4: local agencies. It's a case, they say, that will shock
Speaker 4: this community.
Speaker 1: The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the
Speaker 1: dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately
Speaker 1: trying to get in touch with her husband. She didn't
Speaker 1: want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have
Speaker 1: kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his
Speaker 1: picture on the news.
Speaker 2: My whole world flipped upside down at that moment when
Speaker 2: I saw his picture in the police update and what
Speaker 2: he had done.
Speaker 1: Developing story in Whiteside County.
Speaker 4: Investigators say they've never seen anything quite like The man.
Speaker 1: Accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie, Illinois
Speaker 1: is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.
Speaker 2: Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bands and threatened
Speaker 2: to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay
Speaker 2: him three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. At that point,
Speaker 2: all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's
Speaker 2: where I just broke down and started crying my eyes
Speaker 2: out and fell to the floor and was just didn't
Speaker 2: know what to do.
Speaker 1: In that moment, she understood why the police woke her
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2: When the police knocked down my door asking if I
Speaker 2: had any hiding areas in the house, I'm sure they
Speaker 2: were looking for the people that he abducted. They were
Speaker 2: wanting to know if there was a place in that
Speaker 2: house where they could be hidden. As far as they know,
Speaker 2: I know where the kidnap victims are because I'm his wife.
Speaker 2: I mean most people would assume that the wife would know,
Speaker 2: but I had no clue.
Speaker 1: Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full
Speaker 1: extent of her husban spins horrifying crimes.
Speaker 2: This is what she learned a couple days before the
Speaker 2: police knocked down my door. He must have gone to
Speaker 2: their home. I think that's what the sledgehammer was for.
Speaker 2: To break into their home. He had my daughter duct
Speaker 2: tape it with black duct tape so that the yellow
Speaker 2: handle wouldn't be seen in the dark. I heard that
Speaker 2: he had a voice changer and that he was all
Speaker 2: dressed in black. And I also heard that he broke
Speaker 2: into their home and sat in their kitchen for several
Speaker 2: hours before going upstairs to wake them.
Speaker 1: He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom
Speaker 1: where the elderly couple was sleeping.
Speaker 2: He tazed the guy and threatened his wife and then
Speaker 2: said where is your God now and took them from
Speaker 2: their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to
Speaker 2: get their clothes on. And I know that he had
Speaker 2: told them that it wasn't just him, like he threatened them,
Speaker 2: that it was like a group of people who were
Speaker 2: doing this.
Speaker 1: After the police showed up at the bank. They called
Speaker 1: in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found
Speaker 1: the couple's names in address. When they searched their home,
Speaker 1: they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser,
Speaker 1: and small drops of blood in the bedroom, but the
Speaker 1: house was eerily quiet. No one was home. In fact,
Speaker 1: by the time the police were alerted, no one had
Speaker 1: heard from the couple in three days.
Speaker 2: He had her call around and tell a false story
Speaker 2: about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he
Speaker 2: even took their car to the airport.
Speaker 1: While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Danielle was at
Speaker 1: home taking care of their kids, going about her business
Speaker 1: just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently
Speaker 1: kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom.
Speaker 1: But where was Chad and where was he holding the couple?
Speaker 1: Donielle had no idea. When the police were finally alerted,
Speaker 1: they knew time was of the essence. They relied on
Speaker 1: the FBI and state police to use all resources possible
Speaker 1: to find the missing couple. Ransom kidnapping cases like this
Speaker 1: often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged.
Speaker 1: They were running out of time. With each passing hour,
Speaker 1: the search grew increasingly urgent. Then the FBI got a
Speaker 1: tip about a car matching the description of the one
Speaker 1: scene leaving the bank with the kidnap victims, a silver
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety Chevy Caprice. But Donielle didn't know anything about
Speaker 1: a Chevy Caprice, so maybe they had the wrong guy.
Speaker 1: The police tracked the car down, but when they went
Speaker 1: to pull it over, the driver sped up. It was
Speaker 1: all over the local news.
Speaker 3: Around four thirty am, the car crashed here outside Port Byron.
Speaker 4: We tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and
Speaker 4: they took up at had rate of speed.
Speaker 1: The police approached the crash vehicle and found that the
Speaker 1: driver was indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured but alive
Speaker 1: and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping.
Speaker 1: Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad
Speaker 1: alive in the trunk of his car, but no one
Speaker 1: else was with him. Instead, the police found clear plastic painters, tarps,
Speaker 1: a saw, duct tape, and a shovel. Now that Chad
Speaker 1: was arrested, the only priority was finding the missing couple.
Speaker 1: There were still a few places the police hadn't searched
Speaker 1: Chad's rental properties. After he was arrested, Chad gave police
Speaker 1: the address where he said the couple was being held.
Speaker 2: When he was arrested. I thought that house was still rented,
Speaker 2: like I thought people were in the house renting it
Speaker 2: from us.
Speaker 1: When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone.
Speaker 1: The services were covered in sawdust and power tools. The
Speaker 1: doors were taken off their hinges, and there was a
Speaker 1: ladder in the middle of the living room. But it
Speaker 1: also looked like someone had been squatting there. There was
Speaker 1: trash everywhere, plates of half eaten food, Electronic wires and
Speaker 1: cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but
Speaker 1: no one seemed to be in the house. Then they
Speaker 1: double checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look
Speaker 1: at a computer monitor laying on the floor. It appeared
Speaker 1: to show a surveillance feed six live feed images of
Speaker 1: a windowless room where two figures were lying on a
Speaker 1: mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them
Speaker 1: were hooks and shackles. There was a secret room somewhere
Speaker 1: in this house, and Chad's victims were in there. The
Speaker 1: night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his
Speaker 1: rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon where he
Speaker 1: was holding two people captive. From what they could see
Speaker 1: on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere
Speaker 1: in the house. The couple was lying motionless on a mattress.
Speaker 1: It wasn't clear if they were alive, but then one
Speaker 1: of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet
Speaker 1: and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a
Speaker 1: locked steel hatch.
Speaker 2: And the only entry and exit to that dungeon room
Speaker 2: was through a steel trap door with a walk on
Speaker 2: the outside in a closet hidden under the dresser or something.
Speaker 2: He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You
Speaker 2: would only know it was there if you knew it
Speaker 2: was there.
Speaker 1: Police used boltcutters to open the door. They found an
Speaker 1: eight foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they
Speaker 1: went in. That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive.
Speaker 1: They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had
Speaker 1: people watching their kids and grandkids, so if they tried
Speaker 1: to escape or get help. He would kill them.
Speaker 2: They were in that dungeon for a couple of days.
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine thinking that you're going to die,
Speaker 2: thinking that your children are going to die up on
Speaker 2: this thing, your hands up in the air for so
Speaker 2: many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand,
Speaker 2: and having their kids and grandkids threatened.
Speaker 1: Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.
Speaker 2: I mean, what's he going to do? Go oh, I'm
Speaker 2: going to let you go now, forgive me. Everything's fine.
Speaker 2: How else could it end?
Speaker 1: And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed
Speaker 1: like he meant it. This what if still haunts Donielle.
Speaker 1: Chad was charged with felony, home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, an
Speaker 1: unlawful restraint. His bail was set at a million dollars overnight.
Speaker 1: Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband
Speaker 1: of nearly two decades and the father of her children
Speaker 1: was capable of a violent crime. In addition to processing
Speaker 1: that shock, she didn't understand why was it all for
Speaker 1: the money.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm
Speaker 2: a penny pincher, so I don't know where all the
Speaker 2: money was going? And I don't know why he needed that.
Speaker 1: To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There,
Speaker 1: she made a series of shocking discoveries. First, why he
Speaker 1: targeted the people he did.
Speaker 2: He had gotten a hold of their finances and knew
Speaker 2: how much they had in the bank because he had
Speaker 2: asked them to be clients of his for his fake
Speaker 2: financial business.
Speaker 1: His fake financial business. She also found out that he
Speaker 1: was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner, so
Speaker 1: what did he do for a living? From what she
Speaker 1: gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting
Speaker 1: him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from
Speaker 1: their accounts for years. In fact, after he was arrested,
Speaker 1: his own parents sued him for stealing over four hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor.
Speaker 1: But not only did he steal from his own parents,
Speaker 1: he also stole from his grandmother.
Speaker 2: It was around that same amount, something like three hundred thousand.
Speaker 2: Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from
Speaker 2: his victims in order to repay the money that he
Speaker 2: had stolen from his grandma.
Speaker 1: He never confessed to this, but it added up for Danielle.
Speaker 1: What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.
Speaker 2: I found the plans and bills from it in his office.
Speaker 1: Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon
Speaker 1: piece by piece over the past two years.
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had
Speaker 2: it been thousands upon thousands, and I don't think the
Speaker 2: person who did it ever got paid.
Speaker 1: Honestly, the shocking fact that he built a dungeon to
Speaker 1: hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines
Speaker 1: for months. Inter newsad exclusive Tonight investigative reporter Chris Minor
Speaker 1: shows us.
Speaker 3: A photo of that actual room where it's believed the
Speaker 3: couple was.
Speaker 1: Held against their will. Danielle never slept another night in
Speaker 1: the big house that she and Chad had shared with
Speaker 1: their kids.
Speaker 2: I did not want the kids to be back in
Speaker 2: the house, knowing that he had done that, knowing that
Speaker 2: he was capable of kidnapping people that he's known for
Speaker 2: his whole life. I didn't want them back into that house,
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to them in that house anymore.
Speaker 1: She and her kids moved into her parents' home while
Speaker 1: she got her bearings. For the first few months after
Speaker 1: Chad's arrest, Donnielle's dad would accompany her to the old
Speaker 1: house to continue excavating Chad's office. The police had already
Speaker 1: collected the evident they needed, and she was left to
Speaker 1: clean up the rest.
Speaker 2: Every day that we went into his office, there was
Speaker 2: another thing. Oh he lied about this next day. Oh
Speaker 2: he lied about that too. I remember at one point
Speaker 2: we were both looking at each other on our way
Speaker 2: to the house, thinking, I wonder what else we're going
Speaker 2: to find in his office today? What else could there be?
Speaker 1: There was insurance fraud.
Speaker 2: One of the things we found in his office was
Speaker 2: that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost
Speaker 2: and took insurance out for it. So even our wedding
Speaker 2: ring he lied about.
Speaker 1: There was credit card fraud.
Speaker 2: He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name.
Speaker 2: He'd gotten credit cards in my name, he had forged
Speaker 2: my name.
Speaker 1: She also found lies about herself, stories she'd never heard before.
Speaker 2: We found several papers that had conversations written down on
Speaker 2: them that had lies about me, as far as like
Speaker 2: I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota
Speaker 2: or somewhere. It just you know, lies like that in
Speaker 2: order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people
Speaker 2: that he was talking to. There were just like conversations
Speaker 2: written down on a piece of paper. Some of them
Speaker 2: were to credit card companies because it was with credit
Speaker 2: card stuff. Some of it was two different potential clients
Speaker 2: that he was going to have.
Speaker 1: And some things she discovered were just suspicious.
Speaker 2: Hiking boots that he never wore, a wet suit that
Speaker 2: was still wet and had a little bit of dirt
Speaker 2: on the cuff, and you know, it's like he didn't
Speaker 2: ever go scuba diving, so why does he have a
Speaker 2: lot suits? And where would he have used the wetsuit
Speaker 2: in the Mississippi River. You know, just strange things that
Speaker 2: we never found an answer to.
Speaker 1: One of the most haunting things she found in his
Speaker 1: office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone
Speaker 1: in their family, policies she never knew existed.
Speaker 2: He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids.
Speaker 2: I think mine was a million, and I think my
Speaker 2: kids were a quarter of a million each. It messes
Speaker 2: with your mind really hard. I never felt like I
Speaker 2: was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.
Speaker 2: It was only after his arrest and when we started
Speaker 2: going through this stuff in his office that I was like, WHOA.
Speaker 2: If I had confronted him about any of this stuff,
Speaker 2: if I had known about it, I don't think I
Speaker 2: would be here.
Speaker 1: Donielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police
Speaker 1: and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.
Speaker 2: One of the things that the police told me is
Speaker 2: that in all of their cases, they said they have
Speaker 2: never come across a case that was so kind of ride.
Speaker 2: With the amount of evidence for this guy, I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: And he thought he was so smart.
Speaker 1: She sent him one letter in jail where she said
Speaker 1: she would be praying for him but needed to cut
Speaker 1: off communication. After that, she filed for divorce, but letters
Speaker 1: from Chad never stopped coming. Every few weeks there'd be
Speaker 1: that distinctive envelope in their mailbox.
Speaker 2: Every time I got a letter from him, my whole
Speaker 2: body would just shake. I would get sweaty, palms, hard
Speaker 2: to breathe. But as soon as I saw an envelope,
Speaker 2: I'm like, not another one.
Speaker 1: She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming.
Speaker 1: But one day she got a letter that was different
Speaker 1: from the others.
Speaker 2: On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed
Speaker 2: as him. It was addressed as Elouis A. May. And
Speaker 2: that threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely
Speaker 2: a letter from that jail, but Eloisa May is kind
Speaker 2: of weird. I don't know in Elouisa May. And there
Speaker 2: was no like i'd return address. It was just the name.
Speaker 2: And so when I opened it and it wasn't in
Speaker 2: his writing either, I was thinking, Okay, that's weird too,
Speaker 2: there's something off. The whole letter is written in this
Speaker 2: weird Southern accent. I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.
Speaker 1: This is how the letter began.
Speaker 2: How do you there, missye? My name is Eloisa May.
Speaker 2: You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can
Speaker 2: remedy that with this here letter.
Speaker 1: While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild
Speaker 1: her life. That's when she began to get strange letters
Speaker 1: in the mail. The return address just said the name
Speaker 1: Heloisa May. This is what the letters were about.
Speaker 2: If this fake character who supposedly lives I think in
Speaker 2: Arkansas or something. But she moved to Illinois because her
Speaker 2: daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke and so
Speaker 2: now she's in the hospital, and she came across my
Speaker 2: story and she starts telling me how her husband was
Speaker 2: an alcoholic and at one point he physically abused her,
Speaker 2: and so she left him and then went to live
Speaker 2: with his parents.
Speaker 1: Finally, Chad or Eloisa May got to the point she.
Speaker 2: Ended up deciding to get a divorce because you know,
Speaker 2: she didn't want to do with his abusive, addictive issues.
Speaker 2: He ended up killing himself, and because of her decision
Speaker 2: to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having
Speaker 2: issues in their lives and they take the blame for
Speaker 2: him dying. I felt like it was a threat. If
Speaker 2: you divorce me, I'm going to kill my and your
Speaker 2: kids are gonna feel like it was their fault. That's
Speaker 2: the feeling I got from the letter.
Speaker 1: The letters were four five six pages long, written in
Speaker 1: a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's at all.
Speaker 1: She assumed that either he was disguising his handwriting or
Speaker 1: got someone in the jail to write it for him
Speaker 1: while he dictated. Either way, the character Chad was putting
Speaker 1: on was so transparently manipulative.
Speaker 2: He didn't directly say how can you divorce me, but
Speaker 2: through the character of Eloisa, May was basically saying that.
Speaker 1: She suspects that he made the character Southern to try
Speaker 1: to pull on Donielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from
Speaker 1: the South.
Speaker 2: A little bit later, he goes, I feel the Good
Speaker 2: Lord telling me to do something, and I got a
Speaker 2: little eager. Danielle sugar and May, I declare Darlin, that
Speaker 2: is one of the most beautiful and unique names I've
Speaker 2: ever heard. Something we have in common, sweety.
Speaker 1: Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to
Speaker 1: try and make Danielle question her decisions.
Speaker 2: He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible
Speaker 2: passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of
Speaker 2: different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a
Speaker 2: divorce but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: The Eloise and May letters almost amused her, but they
Speaker 1: also felt like an insult. Did he really think she
Speaker 1: would fall for this?
Speaker 2: I think he had a very very low opinion of
Speaker 2: me art still does. I struggle with that with my
Speaker 2: marriage too, because he treated me like a child.
Speaker 1: She kept the alois in may letters to remind herself
Speaker 1: of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was. A
Speaker 1: year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty, but before he
Speaker 1: faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their
Speaker 1: divorce trial.
Speaker 2: He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings.
Speaker 2: He was pro se and so he questioned me on
Speaker 2: the stand, which was really really nerve wreaking.
Speaker 1: Danielle was awarded full custody, and shortly after she attended
Speaker 1: her ex husband's sentencing hearing. It started with the victim's statements.
Speaker 2: There were no dry eyes in that courtroom. There are
Speaker 2: amazing people.
Speaker 1: The judge was done by Chad's crime, especially the premeditation
Speaker 1: that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture
Speaker 1: of the victims injured.
Speaker 2: From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he
Speaker 2: wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society.
Speaker 2: It's heinous. You can't just do that type of a
Speaker 2: crime and get away with it.
Speaker 1: The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible.
Speaker 3: Today Chad Skipper, in a packed courtroom, listened as he
Speaker 3: awaited his jail sentence sixty years the rest of his
Speaker 3: life in prison.
Speaker 2: I was thinking he was only going to get twenty years,
Speaker 2: and so when it was sixty, I was surprised.
Speaker 1: Surprised, but grateful. She sees how dangerous Chad is and
Speaker 1: doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again.
Speaker 1: She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.
Speaker 2: I have a big, big problem with some of the
Speaker 2: ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness that every marriage, one
Speaker 2: hundred percent of marriages can be resolved. And I was like,
Speaker 2: that is very very untrue and very very dangerous to
Speaker 2: say if there's an abuse happening, that's not true.
Speaker 1: Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Eerie, Illinois.
Speaker 1: Chad's victims still live there too, and Donielle has seen
Speaker 1: them around town.
Speaker 2: I have seen them, Yeah, I've seen them seeing their kids.
Speaker 2: You know. I smile at them when they see me.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they recognize me or not. I
Speaker 2: don't know if they see me when I see them.
Speaker 2: I really don't know.
Speaker 1: She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the
Speaker 1: pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.
Speaker 2: I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't
Speaker 2: because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also
Speaker 2: the police even said something about don't reach out, and
Speaker 2: so I've I just kind of like took a step back.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me,
Speaker 2: if they feel like I was part of it, or
Speaker 2: if they know that I had no idea what was
Speaker 2: going on. One of the reasons why I haven't reached
Speaker 2: out is because I really don't want to cause them
Speaker 2: more pain.
Speaker 1: Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle
Speaker 1: was in the dark about her husband's double life.
Speaker 2: When you first was arrested, there were some posts on
Speaker 2: Facebook about it. People were saying, oh she knew, and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Around town, She's noticed that people don't smile and wave
Speaker 1: as much as they used to.
Speaker 2: I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything.
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a
Speaker 2: small town sometimes you get looks, just kind of a
Speaker 2: weird side look, like I know who you are, don't
Speaker 2: look at me, don't interact with me.
Speaker 1: She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing
Speaker 1: who her husband actually was and what he was really
Speaker 1: doing all those nights he claimed to be in the
Speaker 1: basement working.
Speaker 2: I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of
Speaker 2: himself to me. All I know is the life that
Speaker 2: he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.
Speaker 2: He was able to do everything else completely separate. I
Speaker 2: can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.
Speaker 1: As part of her healing process, she's learned about people
Speaker 1: like Chad and the tactics they use, tactics that felt
Speaker 1: very familiar.
Speaker 2: When I was doing my studies of narciss to behavior.
Speaker 2: One of the things that really spoke to me was
Speaker 2: a thing called word salad, and I totally was like, Yep,
Speaker 2: that's exactly what it was, just words that twist. Anything
Speaker 2: that I said, he would twist it around and jumbled
Speaker 2: it up like a salad and then shoot it back
Speaker 2: at me, and my mind would just be like, I
Speaker 2: don't even know what's going on.
Speaker 1: These kinds of things helped her understand how he had
Speaker 1: subtly manipulated her for so long, but that didn't ease
Speaker 1: the self blame or the sense that she couldn't trust
Speaker 1: anyone around her, or even herself.
Speaker 2: If my husban can pull the wool over my eyes
Speaker 2: so easily, and I thought that he was an amazing person.
Speaker 2: Does that mean that this amazing person can also pull
Speaker 2: the wool over my eyes? Like? What are they actually
Speaker 2: behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are
Speaker 2: presenting to me as a loving brother, a loving friend?
Speaker 2: But then when we are not in each other's presence,
Speaker 2: are they somebody else? Like? Okay, this pastor seems like
Speaker 2: he is everything that a pastor should be. But now
Speaker 2: that I've been through what I've been through, is he
Speaker 2: who he says he is? Or is this just his
Speaker 2: presentation of who he says he is.
Speaker 1: For Donielle, trusting the wrong person building a life with
Speaker 1: them left her all alone and a single parent.
Speaker 2: All the weight of the responsibility is now mine because
Speaker 2: I know I had six kids and I had to
Speaker 2: support them. Now.
Speaker 1: She found work as an online English tutor, and she
Speaker 1: built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.
Speaker 2: My business is called knitting nicely but then nicely spelled
Speaker 2: with a kiten. I'm really proud that I have a
Speaker 2: business that I absolutely love and enjoy.
Speaker 1: After her divorce, she decided that she was done with
Speaker 1: romantic relationships.
Speaker 2: My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage
Speaker 2: got trashed. Even when I would see couples in church
Speaker 2: or shopping holding hands, or I would see a post
Speaker 2: about somebody celebrating an anniversary, it would kind of turn
Speaker 2: my stomach. It just felt you to me because of
Speaker 2: what I went through, you know, having trust in someone
Speaker 2: and then having that trust completely destroyed. I didn't want
Speaker 2: to go through what I went through again. I didn't
Speaker 2: want to put my kids through that again. So for me,
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I am going to do this
Speaker 2: single mom thing and we're going to make it.
Speaker 1: But then, but then she saw a post on Facebook
Speaker 1: from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed
Speaker 1: to her thirty years ago. They'd sence drifted apart and
Speaker 1: hadn't talked in nearly a decade, but in his post,
Speaker 1: she saw that his fiance had recently passed away, so
Speaker 1: she reached out to lend support.
Speaker 2: We were just like being there for each other, you know.
Speaker 2: I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him
Speaker 2: come out of the hole that I felt like he
Speaker 2: was about to go into, just to have somebody to
Speaker 2: talk to, to be able to laugh with but then
Speaker 2: the conversations got longer, and then we ended up staying
Speaker 2: up all night talking over Messenger, and my daughter was
Speaker 2: starting to say, who is this that you're talking to
Speaker 2: all this time? And I think she knew before I
Speaker 2: knew that I was starting to fall in love again.
Speaker 1: Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call. They would see
Speaker 1: each other for the first time.
Speaker 2: In years, and as soon as I saw his smiling face,
Speaker 2: I knew that was that was it. I was going
Speaker 2: to pursue that relationship for sure. The trust issue was
Speaker 2: not even an issue in the situation because I had
Speaker 2: known him from when I was a teenager. There wasn't
Speaker 2: that is he really who he says he is? Question?
Speaker 1: So they started dating again.
Speaker 2: Both of us were like, this is weird. How could
Speaker 2: this actually be happening again? Donnie and Billy two point zero.
Speaker 1: After a few months of dating again, they got married
Speaker 1: surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table.
Speaker 2: So we had Thanksgiving dinner, and then between Thanksgiving dinner
Speaker 2: and dessert is when the wedding happened. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: really cool. I loved it. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question,
Speaker 1: why did you want to tell your story?
Speaker 2: Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge
Speaker 2: for people who've gone through stuff like that. That was
Speaker 2: one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that
Speaker 2: people have actually survived it and are happy again, that
Speaker 2: was really huge. My main reason for wanting to tell
Speaker 2: my story is to give people hope that even though
Speaker 2: you may feel like your world is upside down and
Speaker 2: it can never become upside up again, there is a
Speaker 2: light at the tunnel, maybe really tiny and small, might
Speaker 2: be a little, tiny speck, but there is a light.
Speaker 1: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
Speaker 1: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email
Speaker 1: us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal
Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support.
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and
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Speaker 1: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
Speaker 1: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced
Speaker 1: by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard,
Speaker 1: also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury
Speaker 1: and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and
Speaker 1: Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, additional
Speaker 1: editing support from Nico Ruka. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains.
Speaker 1: Music library provided by Mob Music and For more podcasts
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