1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. There is no such 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: thing as perfect parenting. There just isn't the reason. Over 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: these years, you know, when I've written parenting books, I 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: always include the ways I've messed up as a parent. 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Is because it's always room to reconnect after a rupture, 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: you know, to make a repair. Hi, everybody, and welcome 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. Today's guest is truly is such 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: a gift that we got him to come home to 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: the podcast. He has written two of my favorite most 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: useful books on my bedside table. It's Dr Dan Siegel. 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: He wrote No Drama, Discipline and The Whole Brain Child, 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: and I use them both constantly. If you've never heard 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: of them, don't walk, run to get them. I learned 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: so much. We talk a lot about the power of 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: showing up. We talk about development trauma and helpful mindfulness 17 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: exercises that we can start with our young children now 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: so that they can continue to practice such techniques into adulthood. 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: Dr Siegel is a clinical professor of psychiatry at the 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: u c l A School of Medicine and the founding 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: co director of the Mindful Awareness Research Center at u 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: c l A. He's also the executive director of the 23 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: Mind Site Institute, and the institute focuses on such topics 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: as the development of mind site empathy, and integration of 25 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: families and communities. Dr Siegel is published for both professional 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: and general audiences, and his work includes five New York 27 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: Times bestsellers, including Aware, The Science and Practice of Presence, 28 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: mind A Journey to the Heart of Being Human, and 29 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: two of his best sellers, The Whole Brainchild and No 30 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: Drama Discipline, were co authored with Dr Tina Payne Bryson. 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Dr Siegel for making time and 32 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: for coming onto Katie's crib. I just want to tell 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: you I'm such a huge fan. I have read your books. 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: I am a parent of two children, and I'm trying 35 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: to implement lots of your things. I've watched Google talks, 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: and I've listened to you on Chelsea Handler's podcast. Oh great. First, 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: for those listening who may not know you, just tell 38 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: us a little bit about how you come to your 39 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: parenting books through science and through interdisciplinary science and Katie Speak. 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: It's like lots of different sciences coming together, right Yeah, 41 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: what I've been trying to do, being trained both as 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: a physician and a scientist, in becoming an educator and 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: also you know, being a therapist, wanting to see if 44 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: there was a way to combine all the different disciplines 45 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: of science into one framework. So in my professional academic writing, 46 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, we have a whole series of books that 47 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: I edit that other people write in this approach. So 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: we have over seventy five textbooks for esstionals, and then 49 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I also write, you know, my own books a little 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: bit in that series, but also for the general public, 51 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: including parenting. That's called interpersonal neurobiology, which is a fancy 52 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 1: term just meaning what if you went inside for the personal? 53 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: What if you went in our relationship with the inters 54 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: that's the interpersonal, And what if you look not just 55 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: at the brain, but the whole way in which all 56 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: the different systems were part of the entire nervous system 57 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: and the whole body, but then the systems of relationships 58 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: we have with humanity and with nature. If you tried 59 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: to understand those systems from a scientific point of view, 60 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: how would that influence, for example, the way you approach 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: parenting or how you would approach psychotherapy, or you know, 62 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: how you might even approach the way we deal with 63 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: the environment or racism, or how we're approaching the pandemics 64 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: that we have. So it's a really exciting moment to 65 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: try to bring the research findings of science to practical application. Yes, 66 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of like instead of going to one doctor 67 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: for one specific thing, what's great about you are sort 68 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: of bringing lots of different things together. Mindfulness, psychotherapy, science, 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: all of these things, like you were saying, to help 70 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: us be better parents, to raise a whole integrated brain child. Exactly, 71 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: well said I put things in real Katie's crib terms. Now, um, 72 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: why is it important to care about your child's brain 73 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: and development as a toddler? And also for me, is 74 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: my three and a half year old already screwed? Like like, 75 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: oh god, I mean, are these the most sometimes I 76 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: hear these are the most important years. If you haven't 77 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: really done it before five or seven year you can 78 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: fill in the blanks talk to me about the toddler brain. Right. Well, 79 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: first of all, thanks with the question. And you know, 80 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: I think for everyone listening, we can all take a 81 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: deep breath and say there is no such thing as 82 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: perfect parenting. There just isn't the reason. Over these years, 83 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, when I've written parenting books, I always include 84 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: the ways I've messed up as a parent is because 85 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: it's always room to reconnect after a rupture, you know, 86 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: to make a repair. And in fact, not that you 87 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: should try to make ruptures in your connection with your kid, 88 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: but they happen inevitably even if you're you know, expert 89 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: in this area or write books in this area or whatever. 90 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: And when my kids got old enough to read and 91 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: reflect them what I was doing, and I asked their 92 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: permission and to make sure what I was writing was accurate. 93 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: They both read this piece that I've written about some 94 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: conflict the three of us had, and they said, well, listen, 95 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: it's accurate. But what's wrong with you that you want 96 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 1: to let the world know what a jerk you can be? Great, 97 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: what a relief? Yeah. So I said, okay, I'm putting 98 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: it in there. They go, why would you do that? 99 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: I said, I'm doing that because the story that you're 100 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: saying is accurate is really about how we reconnected after 101 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: I messed up, and people need to know that instead 102 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: of aiming for something that's called perfection or just getting 103 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: right you have a direction you aim for, so you're 104 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: not just lost, and you can be inspired by science 105 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: but not getting imprisoned by science. So even the word attachment, 106 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, I'm an attachment researcher. I'm trained through the 107 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: National Instudentental Health blah blah blah to study attachment. So 108 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: what the research on attachment shows is that, first of all, 109 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: human beings can have more than one attachment figure. But 110 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: what that means is kids can have different attachment figures. 111 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two. It also shows that you're 112 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: asking about, you know, is your three and a half 113 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: year old messed up? You know? Is that these attachment 114 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: experiences can be healed if there's real, big ruptures in 115 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: them anytime in the lifespan. Earlier is better than later, 116 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: but doing it is better than not doing it. Yeah, 117 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: when you talk about attachment secure versus insecure, I just 118 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: want to make sure people understand what attachment what that means. Yeah, 119 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: So there is a formal approach to parent you called 120 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: attachment parenting that, as far as I can tell, has 121 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: nothing to do with attachment research. So I'm not talking 122 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: about attachment parenting. So the word attachment can be used 123 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: however you feel like using it. No one's got like 124 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: an ownership of it. But in the field of psychology 125 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: that studies child development, there's a branch of that called 126 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: attachment theory and research. That's just what they used for 127 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: their academic studies. That's what I'm trained in, and what 128 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: we do is we study of parents and other caregivers 129 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: and how they interact with children. One of my colleagues 130 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: has been doing this in a study over forty five 131 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: years in length, where they study the families before the 132 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,559 Speaker 1: child was born, so during a pregnancy, and now those 133 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: kids are in their mid forties. In a nutshell, what 134 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: we've learned from that attachment research is that there are 135 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: these patterns in which we tend to fall, which include, 136 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: in the broadest categories, what's called secure attachment, which leads 137 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: to resilience in a child. And that's in the United States, 138 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: somewhere between fifty five and six kids with their primary 139 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: caregiver have a secure attachment's great news, But for close 140 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: to a third to a half, you know, we have 141 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: non secure attachment with their primary caregiver, which is what 142 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: the research studies. Because you have many a number of 143 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: attachment figures when you look at the non secure forms, 144 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: there are three kinds. One is avoidant, which is about 145 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: of population, where basically it was emotional distance, and the 146 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: kid learns how to be prematurely autonomous, right, and that 147 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: has all sorts of consequences in that person's adulthood and 148 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: their romantic relationships. And then the second grouping, which is 149 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: about fifth team person of the population, is ambivalent attachment, 150 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: where they got mixed messages and so instead of the 151 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: disconnection of the avoidantly attached kid with the primary caregiver, 152 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: this one is kind of confused, like who are you? 153 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: Who am I? I'm not sure do you love me enough? 154 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: Maybe you do, maybe you don't write, and the boundaries 155 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: were sometimes not clear, sometimes they were true to intruded upon. 156 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: And then overlapping these three secure and the two forms 157 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: of non secure is the most concerning form disorganized attachment. 158 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: And these kids have the worst outcome, where you are 159 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: terrified of your caregiver, and so obviously this is an 160 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: abuse and neglect, but even in more subtle forms where 161 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: you may not be removed from the care of your parents, 162 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: but here you're still being terrified of the caregiver in 163 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: various ways. And those kids develop what's called dissociation, so 164 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,479 Speaker 1: they have a fragmentation of their mind. Now it's very healable, 165 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: it's very disturbing of their ability to regulate their own 166 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: emotions or to engage in mutually rewarding relationships with others. 167 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: So I've worked with, you know, adults who bring their 168 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: obviously older parents in talk about a rupture a long 169 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: time ago or something like that. That's right, and some 170 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: of the most amazing healing has happened, you know, when 171 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: the parents are in their sixties or seventies and they 172 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: come in and the child is in her thirties or forties, 173 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: and then we do the work, and it's amazing that 174 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: the healing, the reconnecting, the becoming whole is what healing needs, 175 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: you know, really requires a kind of kindness and vulnerability 176 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: that allow to heal from ruptures. It doesn't always happen. 177 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: Not all parents are up for that. So sometimes you 178 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: as an individual need to make sense of your own life. 179 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: And Mary Hartzel, my daughter's preschool director, and I wrote 180 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: a book called Parenting from the Inside Out. Yeah you did, 181 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: and and we can talk about that. But that inside 182 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: out approach basically says you're going to heal yourself, even 183 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: if your parents don't cooperate, or even if they're not 184 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: still alive. So, if you've had an avoidant back ground, 185 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: you can move towards security. If you've had an ambivalent background, 186 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: you can move towards security. And if you've had a 187 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: disorganized one, you can move towards these various forms of 188 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: non secure attachment, but even security. So the great news 189 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: is that if you're listening, you can change. And you know, 190 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: the mindset book I wrote, you know, or parenting remainside 191 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: out give you the pathways to change. Can you give 192 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: me an example of a big rupture versus a little rupture, 193 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: just so I have like a sort of framework. A 194 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: rupture would be obviously like a divorce or like moving 195 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: out of parents. I mean huge things, right, Yeah, So 196 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: let's just look at the science of that. There is 197 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: a term called developmental trauma that usually means abuse of 198 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: some sort or neglect. And then neglect can be severe 199 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: emotional neglect or severe physical neglect. And obviously the abuse 200 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: can run the range of sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, 201 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: where there's something very negative that's present rather than the 202 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: absence of something positive that's needed. And neglect and abuse, 203 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: these forms of developmental trauma. There's basically the experience of 204 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: a child being terrified of something being created by the 205 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: attachment figure, which means the parent usually, but it can 206 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: be other attachment figures. Now you know feel that I'm 207 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: a part of attachment. Research shows is that when a 208 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: child feels terrified of the attachment figure, it creates a 209 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: kind of bind inside their own brain, a double thing 210 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: going on. One thing is that the deepest part of 211 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: the brain says, oh my gosh, I'm being terrified. Let 212 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: me get away from the terror. But another part of 213 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: my brain, a little bit higher up in the brain says, 214 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: I'm a mammal, and when I'm in a state of terror, 215 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 1: where I go is to my attachment figure to be protected, 216 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: because that's one of the main things attachment is all about, 217 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: is safety. So here's the difficult situation. It's called fear 218 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: without solution. It's a biological paradox. If the attachment figure 219 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: is causing the state of terror, then one part of 220 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: the brain says, get away from that source of terror. 221 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: The other part says, go towards the attachment figure, who 222 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: is the source of terror. So your mind fragments. That's 223 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: the most extreme. Now it doesn't have to be abused 224 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: and neglect, so this is where people should know about it. 225 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: It can be an example of flipping your lid as 226 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: a parent where you're not abusive in terms of neglect 227 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: or physical abuse. It's not developmental trauma, but it is 228 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: still terrifying to your kid. So this is now a 229 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: little step down. And yet it can be very toxic 230 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: to a child, even if you don't want to use 231 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: the word trauma, and it could fall into the category 232 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: of adverse childhood experiences, which is what you're talking about. 233 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: In my household, I have a very, very dynamic three 234 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: and a half year old toddler boy who really enjoys 235 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: if you tell him to do something, he's not going 236 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: to do it, and enjoys that. It's like wild and 237 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: it's perfect for me, because good lord, we couldn't be 238 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: more opposite. So I'm a hippie in my sort of 239 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: parenting style. And it was quick to realize that worked 240 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: for the first two two and a half years with 241 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: my son and now it really doesn't. Anyway. My husband 242 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: has really more of the disciplinary and if you would 243 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: go with a good cop, bad cops situation. Now when 244 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: you use the word disciplinary, and what do you mean, 245 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Like he was better at following through, Like we have 246 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: a long leash, but if it's something where someone's going 247 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: to get hurt, or we have a new born at 248 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: three and a half month old, and one time he 249 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: stepped on her head on purpose and it was like, okay, 250 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: and now you're going to your room, and you have 251 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: to think about what you've done. And violence is never tolerated, 252 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: and we don't touch our friends bodies this way and 253 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: our family members and blah blah blah. My husband is 254 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: better at that than me in just like you're going 255 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: your room right now. I'm so angry at you. This 256 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: is unacceptable. And guess what hanukas canceled? Christmas is canceled, 257 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: dessert is canceled, TV is canceled. And then he goes 258 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: to his room and it was very upsetting and he 259 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: was very sad and it was the most trouble he's 260 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: ever got in and rightfully so, he's he literally looked 261 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: me in the eye and stomped on his newborn sister's head. 262 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: But my son is more afraid of my husband than 263 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: he is me, Like, is this a rupture because Adams 264 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: like I don't want to be the bad cop all 265 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: the time. But our son is not someone that listens 266 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: easily with being told what to do. And I don't 267 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: know if it's the age, I don't know, if it's 268 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: his spirit. I have no idea. I've only met him 269 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: three and a half years ago. This podcast for everyone 270 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: has just literally become my session with my son. You're welcome, everyone, 271 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: don't worry. We'll get back on topic in one. Here's 272 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: the thing everyone listening should just take a deep breath 273 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: and reflect that every kid is different. They have, you know, 274 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: something called it temperament, and that's kind of their inborn 275 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: proclivities that are in the eight There are not learned 276 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: and they're slightly modifiable, but not that much. Temperament is 277 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: very real. Some of it is genetically related, but in 278 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: any event, it's inn eight, not learned. Right. So the 279 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: next thing that we're talking about is attachment. You know, 280 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: how do the relationships you have with your caregivers, you know, 281 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: within the family setting, influence how you work through your 282 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: way of being in the world to develop what's simply 283 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: called personality. When I think about my two kids, you know, 284 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: they had very different temperaments. So if you thought you 285 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: were doing a strategy that worked for the older one 286 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and then tried it on the younger one who temper 287 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: was totally different, it just wouldn't work. So you can 288 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: have a broad approach to attachment, like you want to 289 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: develop secure attachment, but then there are absolutely modifications one 290 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: needs to make depending on the temperament of the kid. 291 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: So let's talk about Adams, you know, being stern talking 292 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: about the brain a little bit. As the brain is developing, 293 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: let's say from nine to twelve months, which is the 294 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: time when a kid begins to crawl, um, the brain 295 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: of that child has got to learn to develop these 296 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: basically like a break, you know, to to to shut 297 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: down behavior. And so what you see then in this 298 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: time period is parents start saying no, no, no, no, 299 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: no a lot. The way you say no is what's important, right, 300 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: So if you say no, no, no, no, no no, 301 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: and nothing happens, the kids inhibitory circuits are not going 302 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 1: to develop, right, and so they're just gonna push you 303 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: and push you and push you until you just you 304 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: think you're gonna lose your mind. You're using the word 305 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: stern for Adam, So be able to be clear about it. 306 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: I said, no, you know, like this, You know, it 307 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: may make your kid frustrated, It may make them really 308 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: piste off, but it's not terrifying them. Now. Inhibiting that 309 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: may take a stern boundary that if you can't create it, 310 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: Adam can create it. Oh no, I've gotten good. It's 311 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: a learning curve. But I'm here. Yeah, okay. Good. So, 312 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: because when there's dangerous things going on like that that 313 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: could be harmful, sometimes you have to say no, you know, 314 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: and but there's no such thing as perfect parenting. Ruptures 315 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: happen a kid. Their job is to push against the boundaries, 316 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: and then, depending on your own childhood and your own temperament, 317 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: you know you're gonna cave in in various ways. Here's 318 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: an example where my kids were older than your son 319 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: is at that time. But I had a nine at 320 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: the time, my daughter and then our son was fourteen, 321 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: and they went to the movies. Right. I took my 322 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: daughter to a movie, and my son wanted to go 323 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: to a movie with his friends. We picked up her 324 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: brother and we were walking by this crepe store near 325 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: where we live, and my son said, he's hungry. I said, 326 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: you want to creepe, and he said, yeah, I love creep. 327 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: And then I asked his sister, do you want to crepe? 328 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: She goes, I'm not hungry. I said fine, you know, 329 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: so we went in. He got a creep and then 330 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: she said to him, can I have a taste of 331 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: your crepe? He goes now and he's eating and needing 332 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: it and smells are coming from the scrape. She can, 333 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: I have a little bit. He goes, okay, okay, get 334 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: and he cuts her off that inche that's like really 335 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: burnt and tasteless, and so hands it to her on 336 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: his fork. She goes, that's too small. Oh hilarious, and 337 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: he goes forget it. And I'm just fuming inside, like 338 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: I've done horrible job teaching him to be a sharer 339 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: and he's selfish and all stuff. We get in the car, 340 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: you know, and I slammed the door shut, and he goes, 341 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? What's wrong? I said, well, you 342 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: didn't share the crape and he goes, yeah, because she 343 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: didn't want one, and I was hungry. I said, well, 344 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: what if this is one of those friends you know 345 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: then you went to the movies with him? He goes, 346 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: I'd give them half my crape. So I go, well, 347 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: why wouldn't you give your sister one? He goes, she's 348 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: not my friend. Yeah, and then I exploded. Luckily my 349 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: wife was home and she intervenes. When we get we 350 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: all have three of us get home, and then my 351 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: system is starting just slowly calm down. And so his 352 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: sister and I go for rollerblading out on the street 353 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: and she says to me, she goes, dead, what was 354 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: going on? Why why did you get so angry? I said, oh, 355 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: you know, because he didn't share the crepe with you. 356 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: She goes, I can handle myself. What was happening? I said, oh, 357 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: I guess if I thought about it. You know, I'm 358 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: a younger child, just like you're the younger sibling, because 359 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: my brother was really mean to me, and if your 360 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: brother was ever mean to you, I was never gonna 361 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: let that happen to if I ever had kids. And 362 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: so I was trying to guess work through the way. 363 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: My parents never protected me, so I was trying to 364 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: protect you. And since she looks at me, she goes, 365 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: this is your own garbage. She goes, why don't you 366 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: work this out on your own time? And that's parenting 367 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: to talk about this crapes of wrath business. That was 368 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: the rupture and then figuring it out. But the repair 369 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: happened when she and I got back from the rollerblading thing. 370 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: We had a family meeting and and I apologized to 371 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: my son for having you know, flipped my lid, for 372 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: just asserting his right to eat his crape by himself. 373 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: And I was able to talk about, you know, to 374 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: him about what the experience was like and then with it. 375 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 1: Since his mother didn't watch all this, I asked him 376 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: if he wanted to, you know, share what the experience 377 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: was like, and then he imitated me, and he did 378 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: a really good job of how ridiculous I was, so 379 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: so inside of me. I had to be ready in 380 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: terms of the repair process. And we're the older, more experienced, wiser, 381 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: hopefully ones than our kids. So it's our responsibility to 382 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: make the repair right. That's so important. Yeah, we need 383 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: to understand that these are vulnerable places in us. So 384 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: whatever issues I have with my brother being you know, 385 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: protected by my parents and me not being protected and 386 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: all these kind of stuff, that's not for me to 387 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: work out with my kids, but it's to to work 388 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: it out with them that I did something pretty scary 389 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: cur saying slamming the slamming the door. It was terrible, 390 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: I mean, and so I had to own that and 391 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: apologize for that instead of saying, yeah, but you made 392 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: me do it because you wouldn't share. And I don't 393 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: like selfish kids. You know, I could, you could do that, 394 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: you could go that route, sure, but that's really the 395 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: opposite of repair. I think I was watching maybe it 396 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: was your Google talk, but so much about we're talking 397 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: about these repairs and ruptures. If you do a lot 398 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: of the repairing of your own life, it's so helpful 399 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: to you as a parent, because a lot of times 400 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: nothing shows you your weaknesses more. And I sit here 401 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: and I see my other friends kids who listen when 402 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 1: they're asked once. They're not boundary pushers. That's not what 403 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: they Their kids are doing something else, you know what 404 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: I mean. Like I was just at a swim class. 405 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: My son's learning to swim, and my son has gotten 406 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: in really big fat rubble every swim class because he's 407 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: splashing all the other kids in the face and making 408 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: them cry. Okay, and the kid who's crying is afraid 409 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: of the water. And my son senses that he's afraid 410 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: of the water, and so he's instigating and splashing and 411 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: things like that. I'm the mom freaking out that my 412 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: kid is making other kids cry. But my kid is 413 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: like animal beast in the water, loves nothing more than 414 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: diving off the side. And today's the graduation from swim class, 415 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: and he's showing off everybody's such a good swimmer. The 416 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: mom of the shy boy who is crying is a really, 417 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: really tough mom, and she's having such a hard time 418 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: that her son is struggling in the water. And I'm 419 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: looking at each other and I'm like, oh my god, Like, really, 420 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: in another life, should we we We would switch and 421 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: we would both be like not having on this journey 422 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: learning whatever the hell it is that we're learning. Yeah, well, 423 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: they definitely teach us. You know. There's something called reflective dialogues, 424 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: which is a dialogue as a conversation. Reflection means to 425 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: the inward. And there are three kinds of maps that 426 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: the brain is able to make. It's called a mind 427 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: site or seeing the mind mindset map of oneself, a 428 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: mind site map of someone else, so it's a U map, 429 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: so it's a me map, you map, and a WE map. 430 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: So ideally for your son, whether it's going to happen 431 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: soon or later, if you don't mind me giving you 432 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: reflections on this, you know, he needs to develop the 433 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: mind site abilities to be able to make a map 434 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: of himself. I really feel like splashing these kids because 435 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm so good and I want to show my strength, 436 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: and then he does not do it. So a mind 437 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: site map would say, I've got the urge, but I'm 438 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: not going to allow the impulse to turn into action. 439 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: And you know some people call that self control and 440 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: and that's going to be something, Yeah, he needs to learn, 441 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: but it's gonna require awareness. That's number one. A U 442 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: map would be where he makes a map of that 443 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: kid who shy and he realizes this kid is already 444 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: having a hard time with water, so for me to 445 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: splash him in the face is really mean. And I 446 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: don't want to be a mean person, or if I 447 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: do want to be a mean person, if I like 448 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: hurting people, I need some help. And then there's what's 449 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: called we map, right like I want to be a 450 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: part of this class where I'm a welcome member of 451 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: this group, and that's a we map. Right, So we 452 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: learned these mind side maps in our homes. But you 453 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: and Adam, you can sit down with your kids. I 454 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: mean you're three month was a little young for this. 455 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: But where you start talking about Okay, let's talk about today. 456 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: Let's talk about, you know, swim class being over and 457 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: you splashing kids in the face. I'm not mad. You 458 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: say it's his mom um, but I'm I want to 459 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: talk about what you think that kids experience was to 460 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: be scared of the water. You know that, and then 461 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: you're splashing him in the face. This is so helpful. 462 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: I want to sit and have this like lovely conversation 463 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: with him and not put too much pressure on it exactly. 464 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: And when you're feeling really centered and calm and can be, 465 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, open to whatever it is, and you can remember, Katie, 466 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: that you can have this coal state curious, open, accepting 467 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: and loving c O a L. It's just something to remember. 468 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: That's one of the best definitions of mindful. So when 469 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: you mindfully have this conversation with him, Katie, you bring curiosity. 470 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm really curious about it. You're open to whatever he says. Well, 471 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: I wanted him to feel bad. You don't get angry 472 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: about that. You accept that's what he said, and you 473 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: bring a loving stance and then you're going to explore it. Right. 474 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: So when we bring a coal kind of presence to 475 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: our interactions as parents, what's great about that is that 476 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: you know you come from a place that you're being 477 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: a role model for him too of how he can 478 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: be that way also in life. I love coal And 479 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: you don't think of three and a half year old 480 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: you think it's this is like great to be starting this. 481 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, okay, God, Actually this is a 482 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: great example. There's a research study which looked at death kids, right, 483 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: and they were around your son's age three and a 484 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: half four, and they divided them into two groups. One 485 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: group had these mind site abilities where they knew about 486 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: emotions and their impact on us. They knew about how 487 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: memory works. These are three and a half year olds, 488 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: four year old, so they had these mind site skills, right. 489 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: The other half of this group of deaf kids didn't 490 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: have those skills of insight into one's own inner life 491 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: or the inner life of others. That's what mind site means, right. 492 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: So then they studied these and they found that one 493 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: of the groups that had the mind side abilities versus 494 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: the ones that didn't have the mindset abilities divided up 495 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: really neatly into one had parents who were deaf at 496 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: birth and the other had hearing parents who then found 497 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: themselves with a deaf kid. Oh my god, Now which 498 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: group do you think is which? It turns out that 499 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: the deaf kids who were born to parents who were 500 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: deaf who knew how to do American sign language, they 501 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: had perfectly intact development of mind site abilities, whereas the 502 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: ones who are deaf who had parents who could barely 503 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,239 Speaker 1: communicate with them. So, like, give you an example, if 504 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: a kid fell down, if that parent was a deaf 505 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: parent who knew how to sign in a sophisticated way, 506 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: they could have a reflective dialogue using sign language and 507 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: say that must have been so scary for you to 508 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: have your triesycle hit the stone. I'm so sorry that 509 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: was so scary. Here, come here and let me pick 510 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: you up and help you, whereas the other one just says, 511 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: get up. So parents who don't do reflective dialogues have 512 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: kids who just are external looking. They don't look inward, 513 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: either in their own life or the life of others. 514 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: So what you want to do, especially with someone with 515 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: a temperament like your kids temperament is you want to 516 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: give them mind site skills, the ability basically to make 517 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: a map of the mind inside myself. If I'm your son, 518 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: so I know what am I feeling, what am I thinking? 519 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: Where's my attention going, what's my intention? How do I 520 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: get a sense of what my impulse is from my behavior? 521 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: That's all called let's just put under the word insight. 522 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: And amazingly, we all have feelings and thoughts and impulses, 523 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: but not everybody is insight, right, So it's a way 524 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: of like making a map of my own interiority. Right. 525 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: We do a lot of this, and I actually, you 526 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: know I have I'm having such memories in this conversation 527 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: of the times that I got in trouble whatever that's 528 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: the word you want to use, growing up in my 529 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: household and got sent to my room to think about 530 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: what I had done. And they always ended with my 531 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: dad sitting at the edge of my bed and talking 532 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: about what had happened and how I feel and he 533 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: would always end up crying. My dad's super emotional dude, 534 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: like he would always end up crying and being like, 535 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, I love you. And it's okay, and we 536 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: let's just talk, you know, and we always just have 537 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: like a nice talk about what it was that had happened. 538 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: And I'm just looking back on that and being like 539 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: my parents were really good about that. Everybody needs these 540 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: mind sight skills. It sounds like your parents gave you. 541 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: That's exactly what it is. So that's the site piece. 542 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: The second is, you know, empathy, So it's your own 543 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: self awareness, the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes, 544 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: and then the ability for the WE map, which is 545 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: and where does this fall in society, in in the world, 546 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: in the world right And you could call that compassion 547 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: if you wanter kindness where you say there's a relationality 548 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: to me and that person. And so the way I'm 549 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: going to act in terms of the we is to 550 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: bring kindness into the world. And the WE map is 551 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: really saying, Okay, I'm a part of something larger than 552 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: just my body. I'm a part relationship with people in 553 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: the planet. So that would include you know, how you 554 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: treat nature, how you treat pets, how you treat the 555 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: trees around you. So this is what mindset involves. And 556 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: the great news about doing it understanding this as a 557 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: parent is you can have kind of a mind site 558 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: strategy where you say, my kids three and a half. Now, really, 559 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: what I made me for is when he's eighteen and 560 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: he's getting ready to launch, so I don't have to 561 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: do everything when he's three and a half. Ah, so huge. 562 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: I'm all about when your child has done something and 563 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: making sure you're coming from a stern, boundary but regulated place, 564 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: like I think if you're flipping your fucking lid, I 565 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: personally remove myself from the situation, let's say, and for 566 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: like five ten minutes until I've like feel like I'm 567 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: not coming at it from like a complete like my past, 568 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 1: like you had said, and then when I come at 569 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: it from a regulated place. We've been trying lots of 570 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: things like you have to go to your room. We're 571 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: going to take away this toy because you used it 572 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: to hit the dog or whatever it is. I'm basically 573 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: just trying them all because I'm trying. I'm learning as 574 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: I go. What are any suggestions in the discipline lanes? 575 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: So the word discipline, it's important remember as a parent 576 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: means to teach, does mean to punish. You know, when 577 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: Tina and I wrote the book No Drama Discipline. Our 578 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: main goal is to tell parents, you know, we miss 579 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: interpreted the word discipline to be I need to punish, right, 580 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: So that's the first thing to say, so that you 581 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: can say, well, okay, what am I trying to teach 582 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: my child? Well, you're trying to teach him the skills 583 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: of self regulation, to put it really simply, and you 584 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: know this wonderful research from Adele Diamond that shows that, 585 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, self regulation is really gonna be learned like 586 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: between three and nine, you know, and the parts of 587 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: the brain that helped curb impulses will be developed now. 588 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: So he's just at the beginning of this. So you say, okay, well, 589 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: then I've got a good you know, six years to 590 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: be working on this project. Great, oh god, you know 591 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: this is the moment where these mind site skills you 592 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: will teach of self awareness and empathy and the WE 593 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: map will help him see, I have feelings and I 594 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: have an impulse. And just because I have an impulse 595 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: like to splash someone, you know, or hit the dog 596 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: with the toys, step on my sister with my foot, 597 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: I can actually be so empowered as even though the 598 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: impulse is there the action does not happen. It's not 599 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: that you always say yes hardly, It's that you identify 600 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: the feeling of a child and once you connect like that, 601 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 1: you can redirect their behavior. You know. I was like, 602 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: you really feel the need to hit? Okay, you can. 603 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,239 Speaker 1: You're allowed to hit the couch, you're allowed to hit 604 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: the floor, but you can never hit a person, and 605 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: you can never hit an animal. Period. And now, after 606 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: a while of that not working good year, it got 607 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: to the point where I was like, if you hit 608 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: someone one more time, you don't get this, you know, 609 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: and that's when it works. Or if you hit one 610 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: more time, you you have to We're going to have 611 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: to start talking about consequences of things. And that worked, right, 612 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: And every kid is different. Is there ever a time 613 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: where throwing your kid in the room and closing the 614 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: door is like allows throwing your kid in the room 615 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: and closing the door. I wouldn't use the phrase throwing 616 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: your kid in the room. Yeah, throw is not good 617 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: escorting them, listen. Timeouts are a very interesting issue. The 618 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: way they've been researched shows that they work, but they're 619 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: never done in anger. They're always done where the child 620 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: is told before an incident has happened. If something happens 621 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: that is a problem in how behavior is going. I'm 622 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: going to give you what I'm going to call the 623 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: time out, and what that means is you're gonna take 624 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: five minutes and you are going to have a break 625 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: from being interacting with the family. And then as you 626 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: do that, I want you to think about what's going on. 627 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: Then in five minutes you can come back with the family. 628 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: What parents tend to do in real life, unlike what 629 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: the researchers very appropriately suggested, parents have taken that term 630 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: time out, and they mean they're going to punish them 631 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: by removing them from social connection, sometimes for half an 632 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: hour an hour. There is a place for timeouts done 633 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: the way research is suggesting it, but I don't think 634 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: there's a place for using timeouts as a punishment. It's 635 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: an opportunity to inspire to motivate, sure, but not to 636 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: vanish for an hour in social isolation. That is really 637 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 1: not what they were ever intended for by the researchers. 638 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: So if you want to follow the research protocol, go 639 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: for it, but don't use that as a way to 640 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: shirk your parenting responsibilities of teaching skills just because you're 641 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: fed up and now you're gonna, as you say, throw 642 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: your kid in the room. No, that's not okay, is 643 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: what I would say. You know, in my household, the 644 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: biggest boundary I can set with my son is taking 645 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: away his most favorite thing that he never gets, which 646 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: is the television. And that's how he knows it is 647 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: at the fan. And you know what else works on 648 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: my son. This is so lame. I cannot believe I 649 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: have turned into this mother. I'm the one too three mom. 650 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: And I think it's because it gives him a second 651 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: to control that impulse, if that makes sense. It gives 652 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: him a minute. Is that bad? No? I mean, you 653 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: know it's beautiful about that, Katie, is that you are 654 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: showing him that he can become aware that it's his 655 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: decision that he can feel. Oh, I can hit the 656 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: dog again. But you know, I really love television, So 657 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: I am choosing to actually not do it. And he's 658 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: learning from that way you're doing it that he actually 659 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: has an option that is in his control. I try 660 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: to always given options because this kid is a negotiating, 661 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: autonomous being. Yeah, you're teaching him the skill of self regulation, 662 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: you know, which is important to do, and this is 663 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: this is gonna be over the next few years. You 664 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: want to take a deep breath and just realize it 665 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: doesn't mean he's gonna wait till then, but you have 666 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: this time. Especially in the next couple of years, his 667 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: inhibitory circuits from the higher part of his brain to 668 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: the lower part of his brain are developing. And the 669 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: way you come to say no in a way that 670 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: invites him to say, oh, I see, I have an 671 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: impulse I'm not going to act on it is actually 672 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: going to grow those inhibitory fibers from the higher parts 673 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: to the lower parts of his brain. And that's what 674 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: self regulations depended on. And that's the skill you're going 675 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: to give to him. The other thing I do is 676 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: how I got it. I was like, if you hit 677 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: one person at this party, we're leaving, so just know that, 678 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: and he did and I then I the funked up 679 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: part is that I have to follow through because it's 680 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: like he did it, and I was like, you hit 681 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: him in the face with a stick. So we're going 682 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: to leave the party and he's screaming, I don't want 683 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: to go, I don't want to go, and I'm like, 684 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: I know you don't want to leave, but I told 685 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: you that if you hit someone, we have to leave 686 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,359 Speaker 1: the party good and you follow through with it and 687 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: have the next party go much better. He didn't do it, 688 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: there you go, but then he'll forget and it could 689 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: happen again. And that's a great example of teaching them 690 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: the skills of self regulation. This is exhausting. Thank you 691 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: so much. I can't like guys. Just google Dr Dan SEAgel, 692 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: get all the books. I'll have to have you on 693 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: again because we're moms and we can't listen to podcasts 694 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: that are more than an hour. We don't have time 695 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: for that. But this is um been so so so helpful. 696 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on Katie's Krim. You're welcome. 697 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Katie. Can you believe this is the kid 698 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: that God she gave me. It's perfect. It's great for you, Yes, exactly. 699 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: What an opportunity to learn. Thank you guys so much 700 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: for listening to this week's episode. I hope you've got 701 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: a lot out of it. I know I did. I 702 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: want to hear from you guys. What are topics you 703 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: want to discuss guests that you want to have on 704 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: I'm always open to hearing your thoughts. You can email 705 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com. Katie's 706 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: Crib is a production of Shonda Land Audio in partnership 707 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, 708 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 709 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. You until you try me 710 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 1: need