WEBVTT - After the Headlines 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:10.120 This was a case with shocking violence. I, like everyone else, 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:11.400 wanted answers. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:16.320 Somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that turned out 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:16.840 to be me. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.080 We're strong and we're not gonna let whatever you want 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.040 to refer to him as break up our family or 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.040 make us cold or heard in our hearts. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.000 This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:44.360 and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode eleven. After the Headlines, I'm 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.040 Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:53.800 Alison Bankston, and Gabriel Castillo. After Brian Coberger pled guilty 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.960 last July, his name and face have slowly begun to 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.840 fade from the headlines. News feeds every hour of every 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:05.039 day have grown quiet. The horror he unleashed at the 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:09.759 University of Idaho still casts a shadow, but finally it's 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:15.320 starting to drift into the distance. We've been reporting on 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.440 the Brian Cobeger case since the very beginning, from that 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.000 first breaking news alert to every twist and turn that followed, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.559 and now, as his story reaches its final chapter, ours 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:31.400 does two. In this episode, we hear from Moscow mayor 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.000 Betge on how his town once bucolic and quiet was 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:40.399 forever changed on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and how 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:45.160 they're finding ways to move forward. We're also joined again 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.920 by Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, who shares what it's been 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.040 like for his family now that the case is finally over. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:56.560 But first, Stephanie Leideker, crime analyst, Body Movin and I 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.720 reflect on our own journeys throughout this story and how 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.640 covering the murders of Madison Mogen, Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle, 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:14.359 and Ethan Chapin have affected each of us. Here's Body, I. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.440 Think acknowledging the emotional toll that this has taken on 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.400 everyone as important in that even if you're approaching this 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.400 case from an analytical standpoint, as I have really tried 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.680 to do and not get emotional, vicarious trauma is still 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:27.360 a real thing. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.520 It's really hard to believe that it was three years 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:35.959 ago because I remember so distinctly exactly when it happened. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.760 I mean, I remember that the Christmas lights were still on. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.480 I remember that the couch that they partied on was 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:47.080 still outside, that the kids congregated on, and I definitely 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.560 did not anticipate and could not have anticipated that it 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.600 would end the way it did in the court, that 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.200 it was a plead out up until the last minute, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:01.800 after all of the negotiations and glorious motions back and forth, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.359 that it ended with a whimper instead of a roar. 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.799 I think when we started this project, I personally set 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:15.200 out to almost disprove that Brian Coburger could possibly be 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.720 the killer. It didn't make sense. You know, a PhD student, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.560 as we've talked about so much, a loving family, someone 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.799 who had a lot of opportunity, and you know, listen 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.640 this particular case, it didn't check any of the very 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:36.440 air quote common themes. It didn't involve greed, revenge, or heartbreak. 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.240 It just didn't check any of those boxes. And I 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.360 think the fact that there didn't seem to be an 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.360 obvious motive has always frankly kept us up at night. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:50.080 Brian Coberger has no real connection to any of the 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.240 four victims, and to me, that remains shocking. And I 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.480 think we were all scratching at trying to figure it 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.200 out or trying to have it make sense. And I 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.200 guess that's the unknowable journey that I guess we just 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.960 won't get to because there is no obvious answer. These 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:11.279 are four incredible humans who lost their lives seemingly senselessly, 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.200 and it makes us think about just randomness or you know, 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.680 crimes of opportunity. What does that mean? How is it 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.240 possible that the person who was studying crime became the 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.800 criminal himself. We still don't have a clear answer as 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.640 to why, and I think that's going to be a 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.240 bottomless pit for so many. And listen, we talk about 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.040 this very often speaking of closure. It's it's this ripple effect. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:39.080 It's so many were affected by this, ourselves included. We're 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.680 not related to any of the victims. You know, we 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.960 don't know Madison Mogen directly. We don't know Kaylee Gonzalveez 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.800 or Xanerkernodle or Ethan Shapin, even though our hearts are 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:54.599 with their families. We've all been obsessed with understanding this better. 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.880 And I guess the takeaway really is that we all 0:04:58.960 --> 0:04:59.760 care very much. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.560 Often we attached to a case because it resonates with 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:07.480 something personal like injustice or loss, curiosity, or even just empathy, 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.119 and once we identify why it mattered to us so much, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.640 on like a personal level. Maybe we can redirect that 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.719 same level of empathy to something important moving forward to 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.120 help us even move forward. I think it's important to 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.040 remember why we cared. I. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.640 Like everyone else, wanted answers and was on the search. 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.440 You know, we all teamed up pretty much immediately because 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.359 it just seemed like this nightmare happening in some place 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.320 so idyllic at such a perfect time in a young 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.360 person's life, when everything is still ahead, that we all 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.880 just got hyper invested. I think collectively, the whole country 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.279 got hyper invested. This case ripped our hearts out, and 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:55.760 that whole will remain right. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.200 I think this was a case with shocking violence, and 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.320 it had this small town like backdrop, and for the 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:05.920 first six weeks there was this who done it kind 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.160 of mystery, and you know, the sleuthing culture that I've 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.520 been a big part of, and the combination of those 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:17.920 things made this case and very intriguing. And then Brian 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.720 Cooper gets arrested and we learn that it's a smart 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.960 criminology student, and it took on a whole new role, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.800 and then you know, we have all this legal drama 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.680 and IgG being used in an open active case. It 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:32.160 just made everything very intriguing. 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:36.800 The pure innocence, not that anyone deserves any death, but 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.760 they were not out stealing drugs or whatever you would. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.440 I mean, just like perfect innocence on the absolute precipice 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.680 of the beginning of their lives. And anyone who's had 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.479 that kind of group of friends, I think there was 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.960 a relatability and even watching the videos, here's another reason 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.880 I think it blew up because there was so much 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.280 of them on social media. You could see them, and 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:00.719 you can see their loves and they're dancing. 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:02.719 One of the things that I think made this case 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.080 blow up. It was this small town backdrop and this 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.320 idyllic college experience that a lot of us really wish 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.360 we would have had. This idyllic American town that has 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.040 this amazing campus, the University of Idaho. Almost became the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.960 fifth victim because so many people that live in that 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.920 town were being harassed and accosted by media. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.200 And the trauma itself of the event, just knowing that 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.440 something so scary could happen so close. Remember, this is 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:34.040 a small neck community where people send their children because 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.680 it's so safe. That's where you're supposed to romp and 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.920 have fun at university is because there's this implied safety, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.920 So just the fact that it's not the case is 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.960 also proof that this kind of thing can happen anywhere. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.800 And then you know, you've got crazies out there like 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:55.560 me wondering what's going on, probably calling the Moscow Police Department, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.080 incessantly asking for updates, wondering when the next press conference 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.480 is coming, ceteracit et cetera. It must have been a 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.200 lot for the City of Moscow to manage. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.400 The town of Moscow, Idaho, took an unimaginable turn when 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.160 the murders at one one, two two King Roade occurred 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.240 on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. One of the people 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.120 on the front lines was Moscow Mayor Art Betge. As 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.040 the city faced an onslaught of national media attention in 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.880 the aftermath of the murders and Brian Coberger's arrest, Mayor 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.280 Betcky served as a crucial liaison between the community and 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.719 the outside world. We spoke with Mayor Betgy to hear 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.599 his first hand account of what it was like to 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.000 lead a small college town through an unthinkable tragedy. 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.960 When you became mayor, did you ever see your term 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:44.880 going in this direction. 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.720 Oh heck no. I was thinking, geez, four years of quiet, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.559 just housekeeping things going on would be nice. And turns 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.880 out I made it for eleven months and thirteen days, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:01.679 and then what I never wanted to happen did November thirteenth. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.120 It was kind of a mediocre morning, kind of like 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.040 the snow that had fallen before was kind of melting 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.439 off in places, and just kind of the kind of day. 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.680 I was returning from a trip to Costco thirty five 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.520 miles away. Driving off the road, phone lights up with 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:21.320 a text that said there's been homicide in Moscow. Four 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.439 people have been murdered. And my first thought was, oh, brother, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.160 this is going to be really, really bad, And so 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.680 got back to town and waited for more news. I 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.520 didn't want to hinder the police in their investigation, so 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.720 I just stayed right away from that and waited for 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.880 more news to come, which it sort of trickled in 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.240 for the most part unhelpfully. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.480 And what were your big duties in those early days 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.480 when everything was kind of come into a head. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.000 Well, it's just provide the resources to the police that 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.000 they need to do the investigation and make sure that 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.160 the budget is freed up for the inevitable overtime and 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.480 then stay right out of their way because they certainly 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:07.400 have enough to do without having a politico looking over 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.440 their shoulder. So after that it was turned into the 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.680 point of somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:16.880 turned out to be me. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.439 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:32.960 a moment. After the murders at one one two two 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.200 King Road, the quiet town of Moscow, Idaho, was instantly 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.200 flooded with national and local reporters, along with countless social 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.040 media sleuths and tik talkers, all searching for answers about 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:49.280 what happened to Madison Mogan, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.800 Ethan Chapin. In the midst of the chaos, Moscow Mayor 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.320 Art Betge stepped forward to help manage the media onslaught 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.520 and protect law enforcement from its constant demain. Here's Mayor 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:05.560 Art Betkey, joined by KAT Studios producer Alison Bankston. 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.040 Now to start with, I'm a biochemist, i am not 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:16.000 really a professional politician, and I'm certainly not a crisis communicator, 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.480 so things were difficult. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.360 What was it like taking on this new role, especially 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.880 coming from you know, working in biochemistry, and then all 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.120 of a sudden, it's kind of like you're the spokesperson 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.280 for the town dealing with this tragedy. What is it 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.080 like to transition into something like that? 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.160 Horrible, just awful. But a transition to an event like 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.520 this is a lot different than a transition to something about, ooh, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.800 we're having a big festival in town or something like that. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.440 The major problem was dealing with the national media. The 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.800 local folks are all very good, They have a vested 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.560 interest in the community, and there are neighbors already and 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:58.560 they understand. However, the national media, I don't know what's 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.360 a good analogy. I suppose the national media is like 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.440 a strip mine where they come in wreck havoc on 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.200 the environment and then leave with a big mess behind them. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.720 And dealing with the national media, where they really care 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.800 only for a SoundBite, is difficult. It's a daunting task, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.520 and trying to navigate that in a fashion that does 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.839 not demean the magnitude of the event or harm those 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.480 who are directly involved or even peripherally involved, is a 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:34.280 really tough task. I didn't know many of the details 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:39.720 of what went on and people asking with the implication 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.679 that I'm hiding something when I really I avoided getting 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.160 involved with the investigation so that when I said I 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.680 don't know, I don't know because I deliberately isolated myself 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.360 from the investigation and the evidence. So it was really 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.760 terrible to try to explain these people who are going, well, 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.679 we heard that, we haven't heard that. I don't know 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.360 what to say, so you probably know more than I do, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:07.400 which was frequently the fact. 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.840 I can't imagine someone just being like, you're hiding something. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.439 Especially with these investigations, everything has to be so tight 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.880 lipped to protect the integrity of it. Sorry you had 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.480 to go through that, well. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.800 Thank you. But I must give kudos to our police department. 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:26.400 They weathered a lot of criticism. They were extremely tight lipped. 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.480 They protected the evidence, they protected the case, They didn't 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.280 say anything that would give away the direction of the 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.720 investigation to alert the perpetrator, and frankly, they did a 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.880 bang up job. It was interesting watching the emails come 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.880 in where people were impugning the police department as being 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:50.560 a bunch of Keystone cops, inept, unable, overwhelmed, useless, botching 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.800 the investigation, and that went on until about December thirtieth, 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.560 when the rest was made, at which point the tenor 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.600 of the emails switched one hundred and eighty degrees. Brilliant 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.120 job they did, so great? What perfect policing things like that. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:08.560 It's kind of people you all are just bonkers. And 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.200 I don't think the prevalence of social media has helped 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.880 one whit in any of this, where people can hide 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.200 behind anonymous emails make the most egregious comments. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.880 What was it like when ron Coberger was arrested? When 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.600 that news was revealed in Moscow? Did it feel like 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.160 a weight was lifted off of everyone's shoulders? Can you 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:28.480 kind of take me back to the moment that you 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:29.720 found out that an arrest was me. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.600 I knew something was coming down the pike. I was 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.320 alerted the day before that there would be something coming. 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.720 Didn't say what, just prepare yourself. But when the news 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.920 did come out, I swear there was a waft of 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.760 a breeze coming down Main Street. That was a collective 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.200 sigh of relief. And that pertains not only to the 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.000 citizens of Moscow, but the students in attendance at the 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.960 university here because after the Thanksgiving break a great many 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.080 of them did not come back to town on the 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.840 campus out of concern for their safety. Were starting to 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.840 get pretty worried about what is the attendance at the 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.280 university going to be at the start of the new semester. 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.920 And I will say that students make up probably about 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.680 a third of the population of Moscow. Is substantial. And 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.320 so when the thirtieth of December rolled around the arrest 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.760 was made, as I indicated, the tenor of everything changed drastically. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.280 And then when school started up the eight nine of 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.480 January something like that, more students were back than had 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.240 been in attendance at spring semester of the year before, 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:38.320 and overall higher attendance at the university than in any 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.280 of the past years. So really good. So having that 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.200 arrest when it occurred, really changed the way people looked 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.640 at things, and it was the start of some sort 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.560 of return to normalcy for the city. 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.800 Absolutely. And were you surprised that it was Brian Colberg 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.120 or someone from a neighboring college or like or what 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.920 did the community really think when they had saw this guy, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:02.120 like this is the person? 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.560 Well, the first thing they said, well, who the hell 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.360 is this guy? Nobody knew he wasn't on anybody's radar. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.680 It was just where did this guy come from? Everybody 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.480 was bamboozo. So of course, the analogy I always use 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.600 for this is from Lord of the Rings, where Sam 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.560 and Frodo were marching across the plains of Mordor to 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.400 ditch the Ring, and the Great Eye of Souran is 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.720 sitting there looking looking all over the place, looking at him, 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:29.320 looking at him, looking at him, you know, trying to 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.160 spot him. And then the guys show up at the 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.440 front gate to Mordor, and the Great I of Souran 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.640 flipped instantly. Same thing happened here. So we had all 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.560 this media attention about how inept and stupid we are, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.720 And then as soon as Coburger's name came up as 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.680 a student at Washington State University over in Pullman, which 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.880 is a short six miles away, the entire media attention 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.640 flicked and was aimed square at Pullman. And it was 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:02.040 a weird phenomenon. The amount of the jolting change that 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.640 occurred at that point stunning, And I don't think Pullman 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.560 I was quite ready for it, probably more so than 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.080 we were when all of this happened. But still they 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.600 got the media attention on them, and it was tough 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.240 for them too. 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.200 I can only imagine and for Moscow, for the community 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.880 as a whole, how were they all impacted by this tragedy. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.720 The impact on the community was vast because Moscow is 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.399 a pretty tightly knit town. So in Moscow you wind 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.160 up with either you knew the students or you knew 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.199 somebody who knew them, And so the whole town is 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:43.040 directly or just slightly indirectly associated with the students who 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.920 were murdered here. And it's something that you can't get 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:50.160 away from. And so the impact here was vaster than 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.520 it would have been in a larger city, right. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.720 Yeah, absolutely, And then how does the community feel about 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:57.320 the plea deal. 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:03.120 There's a bifurcation there where some people who are interested 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.400 in retribution really wanted the death penalty. Other people who 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:12.520 wanted the case closed were fine with the life sentences 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.879 without a chance of ever getting out. Frankly, to me, 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.240 a death penalty judgment would have generated an endless series 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:25.600 of appeals which bring up the issues and the gory 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.439 pictures and everything else again and again and again, inflicting 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:35.320 further misery on the families. Friends, acquaintances of the murdered students, 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.720 And what is the point if you get a death 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.919 penalty you appeal for years. We've got one guy on 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.359 death row who's been there for something like thirty years, 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.480 And really, is there a whole lot of difference between 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.000 life in prison without a chance for parole and the 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.520 death penalty when you get right down to it, other 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.040 than tormenting the family and friends in appeals cases for 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.639 years and years. So I think the sooner that the 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.280 key is thrown away and the perpetrator is in jail 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.040 for good, that we can just scratch him off the 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.920 list and say sit there and rot right. 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.720 And then, for you personally, it's been almost three years 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.520 since this horrible tragedy occurred. What does it feel like 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.720 to finally have this case closed, to have the perpetrator 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.160 in prison, and the thought of a lumin trial finally 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:22.639 passed you? 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.480 Well, I'm hoping that, like dropping a rock in a lake, 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.679 you get ripples coming out, large ripples at first, and 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.720 then they gradually abate, And I'm hoping for something like that. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.840 But I'm also aware that a case like this is 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.639 going to spark media interest for a long long time 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:45.480 and It's also going to be memorialized in a more 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.680 special way around town. I'm sure every November thirteenth at 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.040 the Memorial Garden that was established at the University of 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:57.440 Idaho there will be ceremonies and remembrances that go on there. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.720 So it's not going to be forgotten. But I think 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.760 over time we'll have learned the lessons. We'll treat each 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.600 other well, because everybody is going to deal with this 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.000 and grieve in their own fashion, and we should let 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.200 everybody have their space to do so in their own way, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.480 and that's going to take time. The great Healer of 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:17.640 all things, as it were. 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.840 How do you want people to remember Moscow after all 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:22.160 of this? 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.160 Oh, I think we're resilient folks here and we will 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.840 get back to doing what Moscow does best, which is 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.800 providing a lovely, safe, inviting environment to everybody who lives here. 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.440 And I do believe we'll get back to there. This 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:41.280 isn't just a story. This involves real human beings, the families, 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:47.000 the friends, and everyone directly and indirectly associated with these events. 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:52.520 And just remember that and give people some slack to 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.639 grow within themselves, change and respond to it all. So 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.600 mostly just remember these were people. 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.240 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:18.040 a moment. Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.080 Shapin were bright lights, kind, loving and full of promise. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.400 Their lives were stolen far too soon by an act 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.200 of pure evil, and still their families are left grappling 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:33.480 with the haunting question of why Why were their beloved 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.760 children robed from them? Their lives cut short without reason 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:42.720 or mercy. Unfortunately that answer may never come, and yet, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:47.560 through unimaginable loss, these families have shown extraordinary strength, finding 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.359 ways to honor their loved ones and keep their memories alive. 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:55.920 Here's Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother, Stephen Gonsalvez, sharing how the end 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.200 of the case has impacted him and his family. He's 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:04.160 joined by Kate Studios producer Alison Bankston, with. 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.679 Coberger taking his plea deal. What has it been like 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.359 these past few months, just kind of coming up for 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:13.680 air after living in this horror for almost three years? 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:15.879 What is it like to finally be at the end 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.240 of it, to just start healing. 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.760 Yeah, I don't know. It sucks. It never should have 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.480 played out like this. I don't know. In some ways, 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:26.800 we just I don't know. 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.720 I feel like I don't get closure from three hots 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:31.880 and a cot, and this guy gets a gym membership 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:33.840 for free for the rest of his life. And every 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.160 time I go to work and clock in and clock out, 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:37.800 those taxes go to him. 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.040 It's a joke. It's really unfortunate. I don't know if 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:42.480 closure is the right word. 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.600 I guess the silver lining of that would be that 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:47.679 he's not still out. 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.159 He can't do this to any other human or any family. 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.240 And how has all of this kind of changed you 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.520 in your family? I am so in awe of the 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.040 strength in your family and just you bound together and 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.679 you got through this horrible, horrible thing, and you have 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.480 so much resilience you in your family. And how has 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.520 this all changed you guys? And where does this resilience 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:08.600 come from? 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.760 Definitely my dad. I mean my dad raised us that way. 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:13.960 You're not going to complain about anything that you're not 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:17.040 willing to change all kinds of lessons growing up, and 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:19.199 you're not going to just sit there and complain. In general, 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.520 it doesn't help anything. Get up, get off your ass, 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:25.880 and change something. Whether that's the view or whether that's 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.480 your job or whatever it is. That that's just how 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.800 we're always raised to be strong, to be independent, to 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.520 be you know, courageous or whatnot stand up for what 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:38.160 we believe is right. We're strong and we're not gonna 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:41.720 let whatever you want to refer to him as break 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.439 up our family or make us cold or heard in 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.200