1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: This was a case with shocking violence. I, like everyone else, 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: wanted answers. 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: Somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that turned out 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: to be me. 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 3: We're strong and we're not gonna let whatever you want 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 3: to refer to him as break up our family or 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: make us cold or heard in our hearts. 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 4: This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 4: and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode eleven. After the Headlines, I'm 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 4: Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 4: Alison Bankston, and Gabriel Castillo. After Brian Coberger pled guilty 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 4: last July, his name and face have slowly begun to 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 4: fade from the headlines. News feeds every hour of every 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 4: day have grown quiet. The horror he unleashed at the 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 4: University of Idaho still casts a shadow, but finally it's 16 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 4: starting to drift into the distance. We've been reporting on 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 4: the Brian Cobeger case since the very beginning, from that 18 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 4: first breaking news alert to every twist and turn that followed, 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 4: and now, as his story reaches its final chapter, ours 20 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 4: does two. In this episode, we hear from Moscow mayor 21 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 4: Betge on how his town once bucolic and quiet was 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 4: forever changed on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and how 23 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 4: they're finding ways to move forward. We're also joined again 24 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 4: by Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, who shares what it's been 25 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 4: like for his family now that the case is finally over. 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 4: But first, Stephanie Leideker, crime analyst, Body Movin and I 27 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 4: reflect on our own journeys throughout this story and how 28 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 4: covering the murders of Madison Mogen, Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle, 29 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 4: and Ethan Chapin have affected each of us. Here's Body, I. 30 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: Think acknowledging the emotional toll that this has taken on 31 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: everyone as important in that even if you're approaching this 32 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: case from an analytical standpoint, as I have really tried 33 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: to do and not get emotional, vicarious trauma is still 34 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: a real thing. 35 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 4: It's really hard to believe that it was three years 36 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 4: ago because I remember so distinctly exactly when it happened. 37 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 4: I mean, I remember that the Christmas lights were still on. 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 4: I remember that the couch that they partied on was 39 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 4: still outside, that the kids congregated on, and I definitely 40 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 4: did not anticipate and could not have anticipated that it 41 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 4: would end the way it did in the court, that 42 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 4: it was a plead out up until the last minute, 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 4: after all of the negotiations and glorious motions back and forth, 44 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 4: that it ended with a whimper instead of a roar. 45 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 5: I think when we started this project, I personally set 46 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 5: out to almost disprove that Brian Coburger could possibly be 47 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 5: the killer. It didn't make sense. You know, a PhD student, 48 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 5: as we've talked about so much, a loving family, someone 49 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 5: who had a lot of opportunity, and you know, listen 50 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 5: this particular case, it didn't check any of the very 51 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 5: air quote common themes. It didn't involve greed, revenge, or heartbreak. 52 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 5: It just didn't check any of those boxes. And I 53 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 5: think the fact that there didn't seem to be an 54 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 5: obvious motive has always frankly kept us up at night. 55 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 5: Brian Coberger has no real connection to any of the 56 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 5: four victims, and to me, that remains shocking. And I 57 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 5: think we were all scratching at trying to figure it 58 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 5: out or trying to have it make sense. And I 59 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 5: guess that's the unknowable journey that I guess we just 60 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 5: won't get to because there is no obvious answer. These 61 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,279 Speaker 5: are four incredible humans who lost their lives seemingly senselessly, 62 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 5: and it makes us think about just randomness or you know, 63 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 5: crimes of opportunity. What does that mean? How is it 64 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 5: possible that the person who was studying crime became the 65 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 5: criminal himself. We still don't have a clear answer as 66 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 5: to why, and I think that's going to be a 67 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 5: bottomless pit for so many. And listen, we talk about 68 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 5: this very often speaking of closure. It's it's this ripple effect. 69 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 5: It's so many were affected by this, ourselves included. We're 70 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 5: not related to any of the victims. You know, we 71 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 5: don't know Madison Mogen directly. We don't know Kaylee Gonzalveez 72 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 5: or Xanerkernodle or Ethan Shapin, even though our hearts are 73 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 5: with their families. We've all been obsessed with understanding this better. 74 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 5: And I guess the takeaway really is that we all 75 00:04:58,960 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 5: care very much. 76 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: Often we attached to a case because it resonates with 77 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: something personal like injustice or loss, curiosity, or even just empathy, 78 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,119 Speaker 1: and once we identify why it mattered to us so much, 79 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: on like a personal level. Maybe we can redirect that 80 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: same level of empathy to something important moving forward to 81 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: help us even move forward. I think it's important to 82 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: remember why we cared. I. 83 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 5: Like everyone else, wanted answers and was on the search. 84 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 5: You know, we all teamed up pretty much immediately because 85 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 5: it just seemed like this nightmare happening in some place 86 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 5: so idyllic at such a perfect time in a young 87 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 5: person's life, when everything is still ahead, that we all 88 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 5: just got hyper invested. I think collectively, the whole country 89 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 5: got hyper invested. This case ripped our hearts out, and 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 5: that whole will remain right. 91 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: I think this was a case with shocking violence, and 92 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: it had this small town like backdrop, and for the 93 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: first six weeks there was this who done it kind 94 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: of mystery, and you know, the sleuthing culture that I've 95 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: been a big part of, and the combination of those 96 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: things made this case and very intriguing. And then Brian 97 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: Cooper gets arrested and we learn that it's a smart 98 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: criminology student, and it took on a whole new role, 99 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: and then you know, we have all this legal drama 100 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: and IgG being used in an open active case. It 101 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: just made everything very intriguing. 102 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 4: The pure innocence, not that anyone deserves any death, but 103 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 4: they were not out stealing drugs or whatever you would. 104 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 4: I mean, just like perfect innocence on the absolute precipice 105 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 4: of the beginning of their lives. And anyone who's had 106 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 4: that kind of group of friends, I think there was 107 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: a relatability and even watching the videos, here's another reason 108 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 4: I think it blew up because there was so much 109 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 4: of them on social media. You could see them, and 110 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 4: you can see their loves and they're dancing. 111 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: One of the things that I think made this case 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: blow up. It was this small town backdrop and this 113 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: idyllic college experience that a lot of us really wish 114 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: we would have had. This idyllic American town that has 115 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: this amazing campus, the University of Idaho. Almost became the 116 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: fifth victim because so many people that live in that 117 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: town were being harassed and accosted by media. 118 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 5: And the trauma itself of the event, just knowing that 119 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 5: something so scary could happen so close. Remember, this is 120 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 5: a small neck community where people send their children because 121 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 5: it's so safe. That's where you're supposed to romp and 122 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 5: have fun at university is because there's this implied safety, 123 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 5: So just the fact that it's not the case is 124 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 5: also proof that this kind of thing can happen anywhere. 125 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: And then you know, you've got crazies out there like 126 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: me wondering what's going on, probably calling the Moscow Police Department, 127 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: incessantly asking for updates, wondering when the next press conference 128 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: is coming, ceteracit et cetera. It must have been a 129 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: lot for the City of Moscow to manage. 130 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 4: The town of Moscow, Idaho, took an unimaginable turn when 131 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 4: the murders at one one, two two King Roade occurred 132 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 4: on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. One of the people 133 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 4: on the front lines was Moscow Mayor Art Betge. As 134 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 4: the city faced an onslaught of national media attention in 135 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 4: the aftermath of the murders and Brian Coberger's arrest, Mayor 136 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: Betcky served as a crucial liaison between the community and 137 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 4: the outside world. We spoke with Mayor Betgy to hear 138 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,599 Speaker 4: his first hand account of what it was like to 139 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 4: lead a small college town through an unthinkable tragedy. 140 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 6: When you became mayor, did you ever see your term 141 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 6: going in this direction. 142 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: Oh heck no. I was thinking, geez, four years of quiet, 143 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 2: just housekeeping things going on would be nice. And turns 144 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: out I made it for eleven months and thirteen days, 145 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 2: and then what I never wanted to happen did November thirteenth. 146 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: It was kind of a mediocre morning, kind of like 147 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: the snow that had fallen before was kind of melting 148 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 2: off in places, and just kind of the kind of day. 149 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 2: I was returning from a trip to Costco thirty five 150 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: miles away. Driving off the road, phone lights up with 151 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: a text that said there's been homicide in Moscow. Four 152 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 2: people have been murdered. And my first thought was, oh, brother, 153 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: this is going to be really, really bad, And so 154 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 2: got back to town and waited for more news. I 155 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: didn't want to hinder the police in their investigation, so 156 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 2: I just stayed right away from that and waited for 157 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: more news to come, which it sort of trickled in 158 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: for the most part unhelpfully. 159 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 6: And what were your big duties in those early days 160 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 6: when everything was kind of come into a head. 161 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: Well, it's just provide the resources to the police that 162 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: they need to do the investigation and make sure that 163 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: the budget is freed up for the inevitable overtime and 164 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: then stay right out of their way because they certainly 165 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: have enough to do without having a politico looking over 166 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: their shoulder. So after that it was turned into the 167 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: point of somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that 168 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: turned out to be me. 169 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 4: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 170 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 4: a moment. After the murders at one one two two 171 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 4: King Road, the quiet town of Moscow, Idaho, was instantly 172 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 4: flooded with national and local reporters, along with countless social 173 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 4: media sleuths and tik talkers, all searching for answers about 174 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 4: what happened to Madison Mogan, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and 175 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: Ethan Chapin. In the midst of the chaos, Moscow Mayor 176 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 4: Art Betge stepped forward to help manage the media onslaught 177 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 4: and protect law enforcement from its constant demain. Here's Mayor 178 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 4: Art Betkey, joined by KAT Studios producer Alison Bankston. 179 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: Now to start with, I'm a biochemist, i am not 180 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: really a professional politician, and I'm certainly not a crisis communicator, 181 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: so things were difficult. 182 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 6: What was it like taking on this new role, especially 183 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 6: coming from you know, working in biochemistry, and then all 184 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 6: of a sudden, it's kind of like you're the spokesperson 185 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 6: for the town dealing with this tragedy. What is it 186 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 6: like to transition into something like that? 187 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: Horrible, just awful. But a transition to an event like 188 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: this is a lot different than a transition to something about, ooh, 189 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: we're having a big festival in town or something like that. 190 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: The major problem was dealing with the national media. The 191 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: local folks are all very good, They have a vested 192 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 2: interest in the community, and there are neighbors already and 193 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 2: they understand. However, the national media, I don't know what's 194 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: a good analogy. I suppose the national media is like 195 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: a strip mine where they come in wreck havoc on 196 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: the environment and then leave with a big mess behind them. 197 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: And dealing with the national media, where they really care 198 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: only for a SoundBite, is difficult. It's a daunting task, 199 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: and trying to navigate that in a fashion that does 200 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 2: not demean the magnitude of the event or harm those 201 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: who are directly involved or even peripherally involved, is a 202 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: really tough task. I didn't know many of the details 203 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: of what went on and people asking with the implication 204 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 2: that I'm hiding something when I really I avoided getting 205 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: involved with the investigation so that when I said I 206 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know because I deliberately isolated myself 207 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: from the investigation and the evidence. So it was really 208 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: terrible to try to explain these people who are going, well, 209 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: we heard that, we haven't heard that. I don't know 210 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: what to say, so you probably know more than I do, 211 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: which was frequently the fact. 212 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 6: I can't imagine someone just being like, you're hiding something. 213 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 6: Especially with these investigations, everything has to be so tight 214 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 6: lipped to protect the integrity of it. Sorry you had 215 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 6: to go through that, well. 216 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: Thank you. But I must give kudos to our police department. 217 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: They weathered a lot of criticism. They were extremely tight lipped. 218 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: They protected the evidence, they protected the case, They didn't 219 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: say anything that would give away the direction of the 220 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: investigation to alert the perpetrator, and frankly, they did a 221 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: bang up job. It was interesting watching the emails come 222 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: in where people were impugning the police department as being 223 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 2: a bunch of Keystone cops, inept, unable, overwhelmed, useless, botching 224 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: the investigation, and that went on until about December thirtieth, 225 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 2: when the rest was made, at which point the tenor 226 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: of the emails switched one hundred and eighty degrees. Brilliant 227 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: job they did, so great? What perfect policing things like that. 228 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: It's kind of people you all are just bonkers. And 229 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: I don't think the prevalence of social media has helped 230 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: one whit in any of this, where people can hide 231 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: behind anonymous emails make the most egregious comments. 232 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 6: What was it like when ron Coberger was arrested? When 233 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 6: that news was revealed in Moscow? Did it feel like 234 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 6: a weight was lifted off of everyone's shoulders? Can you 235 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 6: kind of take me back to the moment that you 236 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 6: found out that an arrest was me. 237 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: I knew something was coming down the pike. I was 238 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: alerted the day before that there would be something coming. 239 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: Didn't say what, just prepare yourself. But when the news 240 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: did come out, I swear there was a waft of 241 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 2: a breeze coming down Main Street. That was a collective 242 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: sigh of relief. And that pertains not only to the 243 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: citizens of Moscow, but the students in attendance at the 244 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: university here because after the Thanksgiving break a great many 245 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 2: of them did not come back to town on the 246 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: campus out of concern for their safety. Were starting to 247 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: get pretty worried about what is the attendance at the 248 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: university going to be at the start of the new semester. 249 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 2: And I will say that students make up probably about 250 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: a third of the population of Moscow. Is substantial. And 251 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: so when the thirtieth of December rolled around the arrest 252 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: was made, as I indicated, the tenor of everything changed drastically. 253 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: And then when school started up the eight nine of 254 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: January something like that, more students were back than had 255 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: been in attendance at spring semester of the year before, 256 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: and overall higher attendance at the university than in any 257 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: of the past years. So really good. So having that 258 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: arrest when it occurred, really changed the way people looked 259 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: at things, and it was the start of some sort 260 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: of return to normalcy for the city. 261 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 6: Absolutely. And were you surprised that it was Brian Colberg 262 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 6: or someone from a neighboring college or like or what 263 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 6: did the community really think when they had saw this guy, 264 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 6: like this is the person? 265 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing they said, well, who the hell 266 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: is this guy? Nobody knew he wasn't on anybody's radar. 267 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: It was just where did this guy come from? Everybody 268 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 2: was bamboozo. So of course, the analogy I always use 269 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 2: for this is from Lord of the Rings, where Sam 270 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: and Frodo were marching across the plains of Mordor to 271 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: ditch the Ring, and the Great Eye of Souran is 272 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: sitting there looking looking all over the place, looking at him, 273 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: looking at him, looking at him, you know, trying to 274 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 2: spot him. And then the guys show up at the 275 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: front gate to Mordor, and the Great I of Souran 276 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: flipped instantly. Same thing happened here. So we had all 277 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: this media attention about how inept and stupid we are, 278 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: And then as soon as Coburger's name came up as 279 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: a student at Washington State University over in Pullman, which 280 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: is a short six miles away, the entire media attention 281 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: flicked and was aimed square at Pullman. And it was 282 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 2: a weird phenomenon. The amount of the jolting change that 283 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 2: occurred at that point stunning, And I don't think Pullman 284 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: I was quite ready for it, probably more so than 285 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 2: we were when all of this happened. But still they 286 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: got the media attention on them, and it was tough 287 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: for them too. 288 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 6: I can only imagine and for Moscow, for the community 289 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 6: as a whole, how were they all impacted by this tragedy. 290 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: The impact on the community was vast because Moscow is 291 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: a pretty tightly knit town. So in Moscow you wind 292 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: up with either you knew the students or you knew 293 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 2: somebody who knew them, And so the whole town is 294 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: directly or just slightly indirectly associated with the students who 295 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: were murdered here. And it's something that you can't get 296 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 2: away from. And so the impact here was vaster than 297 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: it would have been in a larger city, right. 298 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, And then how does the community feel about 299 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 6: the plea deal. 300 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: There's a bifurcation there where some people who are interested 301 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 2: in retribution really wanted the death penalty. Other people who 302 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: wanted the case closed were fine with the life sentences 303 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: without a chance of ever getting out. Frankly, to me, 304 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: a death penalty judgment would have generated an endless series 305 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: of appeals which bring up the issues and the gory 306 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: pictures and everything else again and again and again, inflicting 307 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: further misery on the families. Friends, acquaintances of the murdered students, 308 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: And what is the point if you get a death 309 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 2: penalty you appeal for years. We've got one guy on 310 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: death row who's been there for something like thirty years, 311 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: And really, is there a whole lot of difference between 312 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: life in prison without a chance for parole and the 313 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 2: death penalty when you get right down to it, other 314 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 2: than tormenting the family and friends in appeals cases for 315 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: years and years. So I think the sooner that the 316 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: key is thrown away and the perpetrator is in jail 317 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 2: for good, that we can just scratch him off the 318 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 2: list and say sit there and rot right. 319 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 6: And then, for you personally, it's been almost three years 320 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 6: since this horrible tragedy occurred. What does it feel like 321 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 6: to finally have this case closed, to have the perpetrator 322 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 6: in prison, and the thought of a lumin trial finally 323 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 6: passed you? 324 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: Well, I'm hoping that, like dropping a rock in a lake, 325 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 2: you get ripples coming out, large ripples at first, and 326 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: then they gradually abate, And I'm hoping for something like that. 327 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: But I'm also aware that a case like this is 328 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 2: going to spark media interest for a long long time 329 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: and It's also going to be memorialized in a more 330 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: special way around town. I'm sure every November thirteenth at 331 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 2: the Memorial Garden that was established at the University of 332 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: Idaho there will be ceremonies and remembrances that go on there. 333 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: So it's not going to be forgotten. But I think 334 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: over time we'll have learned the lessons. We'll treat each 335 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: other well, because everybody is going to deal with this 336 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: and grieve in their own fashion, and we should let 337 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: everybody have their space to do so in their own way, 338 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: and that's going to take time. The great Healer of 339 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: all things, as it were. 340 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 6: How do you want people to remember Moscow after all 341 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 6: of this? 342 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 2: Oh, I think we're resilient folks here and we will 343 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: get back to doing what Moscow does best, which is 344 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: providing a lovely, safe, inviting environment to everybody who lives here. 345 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: And I do believe we'll get back to there. This 346 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: isn't just a story. This involves real human beings, the families, 347 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: the friends, and everyone directly and indirectly associated with these events. 348 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: And just remember that and give people some slack to 349 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 2: grow within themselves, change and respond to it all. So 350 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: mostly just remember these were people. 351 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 4: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 352 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 4: a moment. Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan 353 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 4: Shapin were bright lights, kind, loving and full of promise. 354 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 4: Their lives were stolen far too soon by an act 355 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 4: of pure evil, and still their families are left grappling 356 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 4: with the haunting question of why Why were their beloved 357 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 4: children robed from them? Their lives cut short without reason 358 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 4: or mercy. Unfortunately that answer may never come, and yet, 359 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 4: through unimaginable loss, these families have shown extraordinary strength, finding 360 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 4: ways to honor their loved ones and keep their memories alive. 361 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 4: Here's Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother, Stephen Gonsalvez, sharing how the end 362 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 4: of the case has impacted him and his family. He's 363 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 4: joined by Kate Studios producer Alison Bankston, with. 364 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 6: Coberger taking his plea deal. What has it been like 365 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 6: these past few months, just kind of coming up for 366 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 6: air after living in this horror for almost three years? 367 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 6: What is it like to finally be at the end 368 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 6: of it, to just start healing. 369 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know. It sucks. It never should have 370 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 7: played out like this. I don't know. In some ways, 371 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 7: we just I don't know. 372 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 3: I feel like I don't get closure from three hots 373 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 3: and a cot, and this guy gets a gym membership 374 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: for free for the rest of his life. And every 375 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 3: time I go to work and clock in and clock out, 376 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 3: those taxes go to him. 377 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 7: It's a joke. It's really unfortunate. I don't know if 378 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 7: closure is the right word. 379 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 3: I guess the silver lining of that would be that 380 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 3: he's not still out. 381 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 7: He can't do this to any other human or any family. 382 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 6: And how has all of this kind of changed you 383 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 6: in your family? I am so in awe of the 384 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 6: strength in your family and just you bound together and 385 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 6: you got through this horrible, horrible thing, and you have 386 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 6: so much resilience you in your family. And how has 387 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 6: this all changed you guys? And where does this resilience 388 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 6: come from? 389 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 7: Definitely my dad. I mean my dad raised us that way. 390 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 3: You're not going to complain about anything that you're not 391 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: willing to change all kinds of lessons growing up, and 392 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 3: you're not going to just sit there and complain. In general, 393 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 3: it doesn't help anything. Get up, get off your ass, 394 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 3: and change something. Whether that's the view or whether that's 395 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: your job or whatever it is. That that's just how 396 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 3: we're always raised to be strong, to be independent, to 397 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 3: be you know, courageous or whatnot stand up for what 398 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 3: we believe is right. We're strong and we're not gonna 399 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 3: let whatever you want to refer to him as break 400 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 3: up our family or make us cold or heard in 401 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: our hearts. It's just it's pick it up and keep 402 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: going and do what you can. You better have some 403 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 3: pretty fucking awesome stories to tell Kaylee when you get 404 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 3: to heaven and you see her. 405 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 6: And what do you miss most about your sister? 406 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 7: That's tough. 407 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: Kaylee was always the person to find in new spot 408 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 3: and we need to go, And then my. 409 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 7: Dad's like, yeah, we'll go. And then she's like, Okay, 410 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 7: where's your car. 411 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 3: Because I'm going to book the flights there and I'm 412 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 3: going to plan our tripe. 413 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 6: Well, she kind of liked them, not spokesperson, but kind 414 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 6: of the family ring leader, saying, you know, let's do 415 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 6: this together, let's do that. I feel like every family 416 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 6: has one of those. 417 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I mean she was the middle child, so 418 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 3: you know what about me? You know, if anyone brought 419 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 3: up do you want. 420 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 2: To go here. 421 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 7: Yeah, Kaylee wanted to go and she had already planned it, 422 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 7: so in a sense, yeah, definitely. 423 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 6: How do you want your sister to be remembered? Would 424 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 6: you say? 425 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 7: I just remember Kaylee as the girl who graduated high school, 426 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 7: went to college, went and liked the party, joined a sorority, 427 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 7: did everything right, even a role model for some people. 428 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 7: She meant as anybody would think, a lot to our family. 429 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 4: As this case comes to a close, our hearts go 430 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 4: out to the families and friends of Medicine Mogan, Kallie Gonzalvez, 431 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 4: Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin their lives and the light 432 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 4: they brought into the world will never be forgotten. The 433 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 4: horror and heartbreak of that night will forever be etched 434 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 4: in our minds, but so will the strength, the love, 435 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 4: and the resilience shown by those left behind. Next week, 436 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 4: please join us as we reflect on the case as 437 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 4: a whole and answer some of your most pressing questions. 438 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 4: More on that next time. For more information on the 439 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 4: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat 440 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 4: Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre is produced by Stephanie Leideker, 441 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 4: Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and 442 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 4: sound design by Jeff Toois, music by Jared Aston. The 443 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 4: Idaho Masacre is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. 444 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 4: For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, 445 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.