WEBVTT - Tri-State Area Doing Better With COVID Testing, Roberts Says 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelley. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.240 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, al Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.040 by searching Bloomberg Global News. New York City Mayor Bill 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.320 de Blasio talking about a recent uptick of virus cases 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.800 in some neighborhoods around New York and so certainly there 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.880 are some increased concerns about the virus once again here 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.760 in the city. Meanwhile, J and J has begun dosing 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.320 as maybe sixty volunteers in a study of its vaccine. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.680 That's a big deal. Goldman Sachs So and HSBC. Meantime, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.040 they're among the company's pausing plans to return workers to 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.920 the office in London, and so there is a lot 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.279 going on. Back with us is Dr Joey and Roberts. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.000 She's Chief value Officer provid in St. Joseph's Health, one 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.320 of the largest health care systems in the US. We've 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:14.320 talked with them before. Remember, Washington really was at the 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.560 center of the virus in the US from day one. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.920 Dr Roberts joining us on the phone from Everett, Washington. Um. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.520 Dr Roberts, so nice to have you here with Jason 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.319 and myself. How are you. I'm well, how are you all? 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.240 And what on the East Coast? We're doing okay? Just 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.119 watching those numbers. Very worried. I think I think it's 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.760 fair to say we're worried. Dr Roberts, and I wonder 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.880 how worried you are and how worried we should be. Well, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.080 I think we don't want to, you know, we don't 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.120 want to overworry, but we all want to be judicious 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.200 in how we approach the coming season. Well, so how 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.680 should we approach the coming season? Uh? Well, you know, 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.240 I heard you say there's a lot going on, and 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.560 there is a lot going on, but in many ways, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.000 a lot of it is a lot of noise. I think, Uh, 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:01.960 we have to look at the coming season like we've 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.640 been looking at the last six months. It is all 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.800 going to get back to those basic things that I've 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:13.880 talked about before. Whether we're talking about the COVID itself, 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.040 which is starting to come up again we're seeing more 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.799 cases again, or whether we're even talking about flu, which 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:22.680 is going to be on the horizon here in another 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:28.440 month or two. And so what do we know at 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.320 this point? Dr Roberts and I sort of alluded to 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:32.840 this when we were talking about it a little earlier 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.799 in the show. What do we know now that will 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:42.119 help us effectively contain outbreaks that we know we're going 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.919 to come? Right? We know there's no vaccine, there's no 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.120 cure for this, and so I think it's impossible the 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.200 things like this is just gonna go away. So we're 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.200 gonna see some outbreaks. What do we know about the 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.280 most effective ways to deal with it? Is it just 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.680 the simple things that we know? Or how should we 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.720 be thinking about it? So? Um, sure, Jason, So I 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.040 think there's what do we know is in two ways? 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.520 One is what do we know and what can we 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.280 do as individuals? The other is what do we know 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.079 and what can we do as communities. And I'll talk 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.880 about the communities first because I think you mentioned New York. 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.080 I think New York has done a great job. Many 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.680 of the states that were hit so badly earlier this year, 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:33.000 around New York, everyone is doing much much better with testing, 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.680 and with that testing capability that you all have out there, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.920 what we're seeing is we're able to identify little hotspots 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:49.200 of disease. So rather than New York or Boston or 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:54.560 a large city being really blindsided with COVID, when we 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.880 test a lot, we can see neighborhoods or even parts 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.640 of neighborhoods with COVID breaking out, and then we can 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.480 come in and really put in our efforts around masking 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.960 and distancing to keep that under keep that COVID infection 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.960 from spreading further. I mean it's as important, yeah, but 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:17.800 I mean it's as simple as this, right. I mean, 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.279 Jason and I joke about it a lot, like wear 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.000 a mask, because if you go to the CDC website, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.760 it's like wear a mask, you know, even the head right. 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.840 The director of the CDC said that's almost more potent 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.800 right now, certainly, or could be as as much as 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.320 a as a vaccine would be. So when we see 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.240 these bursts in whether it's New York City or other 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.400 places of the country or over in the UK, is 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.320 it just simply because people are not wearing masks and 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.880 they're not social distancing. Is it just as simple as that, 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.800 or is it because as the world gets colder, or 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.599 is there something environmental that we're just gonna unfortunately have 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.680 to live with the second wave of this. No, it 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.919 is as simple as that. But we also are going 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.880 to have to live with a second wave of it, because, um, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.960 we can keep this under control. I think Dr Redfield 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.800 said it well last week to Congress. While we all 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:12.000 wait for vaccines that we hope we're going to be effective, 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.400 the most effective thing we have right now is a mask. Yeah, 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:21.320 so go ahead, no, no, no no, please finish. Yeah. So 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.839 most effective thing is a mask. The second most effective 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.400 thing is just reducing the number of people that you 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:32.520 interact with and keeping distance from them. It is that simple. 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.240 Talk to us about the flu, the common the more 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.120 seasonal flu, and how that plays in here. Well, it 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.640 plays in really well because the same things that we're 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.640 doing around COVID, we will keep flu under wraps if 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.640 we keep those masks on and keep that distancing. And 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.960 then of course with flu, we have vaccine. We know 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.960 the vaccine works, and so getting getting your flu shot 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.040 early is going to be a great idea. You know 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:00.719 what I want to ask you, Dr Roberts, because I 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.080 actually was at the doctor this morning and wanted to 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.000 get a flu shot, and they're like, really sorry, but 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.120 the flu shots haven't come in from the West coast 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.680 because of the fires that there have been delays, and 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.320 I just thought, I'm just curious. And then I got 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.920 into a conversation with the doctor who was saying that, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.719 you know, there are some concerns I think about production 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.880 gearing up for vaccines for the virus, the COVID nineteen virus. 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.640 So I do wonder do we need to be worried? 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.520 Will there be enough flu vaccines? Will they come in 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.880 time so that we don't have to pile that on 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.479 top of our worries. Um, sure, Carol, I think we 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.279 are in great shape with flu vaccine. I'm a little 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.040 surprised that your doctor didn't have the vaccine. I know 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:44.080 that it's stocked pretty much across the western and Central 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.599 United States. I had not checked into the Eastern States, 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.719 but UM clinics have been set up pretty much throughout 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.400 the western two thirds of the US UM and I 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.000 think there's not going to be a problem of shortages 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.880 with the flu vaccine on COVID. We are making plans now, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.280 we are we're starting to make our plans for how 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.640 we're going to vaccinate folks when vaccines becomes available, and 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:14.480 we are penciling in late November at the time when 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.600 we hope to see the first vaccine, and we think 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:24.920 that we probably would see adequate supplies about nine months later. Interesting, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:30.200 So in the meantime, talk to us about schools, because 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:36.120 you know, both elementary and secondary high school, but also colleges. 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.960 I mean, this has become one of the critical questions 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.000 and one of the critical I dare say, sort of 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.920 controversies that we're all looking at right now. How do 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.320 you read it, well, Jason, I think the primary and 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.680 secondary schools, I think are one topic and colleges are 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.760 totally separate topic. And I will say I think there's 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:02.080 no more difficult circumstance to deal with the policymakers than 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.880 primary and secondary schools. How if you bring kids back 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.760 even in places that have low prevalence of disease right now. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.920 If you bring kids back, it's hard to socially distanced kids, 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.440 especially grade schoolers. How do you keep them from sharing 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.280 their fluids? I mean, gosh, we've all had kids in 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:27.160 grade school. Yeah. Yeah, And and so I think we 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.680 see a lot of districts trying lots of approaches, maybe 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.679 a hybrid approach in areas where there's very little outbreak 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:40.400 right now, and then more homes, you know, virtual schooling 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.400 and places with higher outbreaks. Listen. One thing I want 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.760 to bring in our Vince Signarella, who we talked at 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:47.800 He watches the markets for us. We talked to him 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.520 at the top of our broadcast Dr Roberts, and he 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.679 just sent us a headline from the Washington Post. Study 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:58.360 shows coronavirus is mutating, potentially evolving, like we don't have 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.839 enough to worry about. What does that mean? We would 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.640 expect that, and we've seen mutations already and a trigge 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:13.080 in in virology. Mutations are expected, they're common, and generally 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:20.120 with new viruses, mutations are good news because hands they 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:24.880 tend to become less virulent. So when we see mutations 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:30.400 with early with new viruses, they tend to be less 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.920 They create less severe disease than the previews. But do 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.480 we have to keep chasing new vaccines to deal with 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:38.480 it or now? And just got about thirty seconds here. 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.240 I don't know yet, too early to tell, but those 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.920 vaccine makers are expecting mutations to occur, so you can 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.120 be assured that they are designing for those mutations. All right, Well, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:53.880 we always learned so much from you and your team. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.960 We really appreciate it. Dr Joan Roberts, Chief Value Officer 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.920 of Providence St. Joseph hel joining us from Washington State. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.360 Of course, that is where we all first heard about 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.040 and encountered this from a domestic perspective. So they Dr 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.040 robertson her team have been watching this so closely and 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.000 have been very kind to share a lot of those 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.400 findings with us, and you know, keeping us honest on 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.800 candidly care what we know what. We don't know what 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.120 the best advice is at any given time. One of 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.160 the things that's clear, we do know the best way 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.680 to at least send this off. Wear a mask, Wear 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.480 a mask, social distancing it works. This is Bloomberg Business 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.520 Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.199 this week, especially Equality issue of Bloomberg business Week magazine. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.800 It's a compliment to today's Bloomberg Equality Summit and the 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.760 cover story about how it's time for a new approach 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.680 to cure inequality because capitalism will, folks, it just isn't 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.280 cutting it. Let's get into this story with Bloomberg News 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.360 Diversity and Sustainability reporter Rebecca Greenfield. She's on the phone 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.400 in Brooklyn. Also with us Bloomberg business Week editor Joel 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.000 Webber on the phone in Massachusetts. Very provocative cover story, 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.080 Are you here, Joel? Yeah? And UM credit to Rebecca, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.160 who has done a number of stories for us this year, 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.480 and I think this is their second cover UM in 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.640 in this space. And when we started started talking to 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.240 her about how we wanted to approach the quality issue, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.760 I think she really came at it almost like a 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.360 little bit of a sequel to her last cover story, 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.800 and it was the idea that the last time, it 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:32.160 was the idea that businesses just have a dearth of 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.400 of of black or minority CEOs, people of color, um 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:41.040 and with a really really provocative cover that showed just 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:45.600 how white the fortune is. And this time I think 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.800 she went even a little bit bigger about this and said, 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.520 look like, actually the force of that companies have been 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.000 relying on here is the market. The market is supposed 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.800 to correct things, and it's clue clearly not working. And 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.320 even more provocative, I think, is this idea that within 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.439 HR departments D and I of the Diversity and Initiative 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.199 crew has actually been part of the problem. Almost I 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.280 could pick it up from there. Yeah, thanks so much 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.800 for having me and I yeah definitely also seated as 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.560 a follow up to the last piece. But like Joe said, 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.120 the driving force behind diversity and inclusion initiative to the 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.640 last three decades has been this market driven approach. So 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.880 this idea that you know, discrimination and inequality is bad 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.800 for business. Um, you know, you're you're losing out on 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.320 productive people if you discriminate I guess people just because 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.200 they look like And also there's so much research showing 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.240 that diverse teams are just better and more productive. And 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.520 this has been driving the dconied apartment and you know, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.880 billions of dollars of industry to get more people who 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.160 are women and minorities into high paying jobs. And in 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.280 the piece, um, I get into how that hasn't worked. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:57.320 But also you know how the George Floyd protests this 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.640 summer um have led to a bit of a shift 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:06.520 in thinking away from this kind of dominant theory. And 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.360 so Becca, what are people actually doing about it? I 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.440 mean part of what you know, I know you and 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.600 your team have described as this is obviously moving from 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.000 the fringes into the mainstream, into the main conversation. That's 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.120 one of the pillars of everything we're doing with the 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.959 Equality Summit. But what sort of actual movement are we 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.720 seeing or is the entire point that we're not actually 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:32.000 seeing anything. We're so actually are seeing some changes, And 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.480 I think the biggest thing is, you know, this is 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.920 not going to sound like that. It's a mindset shift. 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.000 So before it was kind of like diversity is good, 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.160 and now it's like, Okay, racism is still happening, and 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.679 so we need to do things combat racism. I think 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.719 we can add that to other isms that racisms in 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.360 the focus um for the summer for a good reason. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.720 So I think that's been a big shift, because you 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.480 do different things once you start thinking about it in 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.640 terms of fixing racism as opposed to promoting diversity. And 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.040 I think The biggest thing that I've noticed that's more 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.000 tangible than in mindset shift is things that look very 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:12.080 similar to and I would describe as quotas um, which 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.720 is what my first article was about, which I remember 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.400 that that was really great because I really thought about that. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.920 You know, does this is this what we need to do? Yeah? 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.160 I think companies, although they are reluctant to actually call 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.200 it that because they're very scared of the word for 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:30.000 various reasons, they are something like, we are going to 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:33.120 aim to have a certain number or percentage of black 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:38.320 people or Latin next people in certain high paying, high 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.360 power roles. And that is difference. They had not done 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.040 anything bad aggressive before the Five Lives Matter protests, and 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.120 I think it's things like that that might move the 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.880 needle more or a very least just trying something different 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.160 and then and that's a big shift in the last 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.800 couple of months compared to the last thirty years. Back 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.720 in one of the most provocative things, I'm gonna steal 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.080 your here a little bit um or at least let 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.520 you steal your own thunder, uh is your opening anecdote 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.920 from seventeen um that is about Apple. Can you share 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.120 that one because it's such a provocative way into the story. Yeah. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.720 So in twenty seventeen, the woman who is hanging up 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.640 Apple's diversity and Incision department, she sing at a conference 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.120 and she said, in her own arks, she said, there 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.200 can be twelve white blue eyes, blonde men in a room, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.640 and they're going to be diverse, and they're going to 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.520 bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.240 And she apologized for those remarks because you know, people said, uh, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.680 you know, that's not really diversity. But it was realing 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.200 that that the mission to get more women and minorities 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.640 up and down the Colvor ladder had really become diluted, 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.200 and it really become driven by this idea we just 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.360 made diversity of thought and experiences. And when you think, like, yeah, 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.480 it's true, like a certain of you know, white blonde, 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.840 blue eyed man from me or twenty is going to 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:02.880 be evernten at white blood blad man from somewhere else, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.600 But it does not has nothing to do with the 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.560 original mission of getting more women and minorities higher as 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.800 the coorperater. You know. The one thing is, and I 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.520 think about targets, right, I mean, if we want transparency 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.120 like we need to unfortunately, especially early on, look at 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.200 the numbers, find out where we're lacking as companies and 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.360 institutions Rebecca right. And then it is kind of a 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.720 simple fix if you just set some targets to say, Okay, 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.280 we need to consciously think about this and make sure 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.080 we up the numbers. That's how you can kind of 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.000 change this. It feels like in a in a in 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.560 a much faster manner. Yeah, And I think the one 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.800 thing that's missing from that is where are the consequences? 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.560 And I think right now it's self imposed. And I think, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.400 you know, it's up to journalists and consumerism however, to say, like, okay, 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.280 where are you on this? You know, you made those 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.120 the promise or target you know, in five years and 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.920 you met it um. But I think you know, the 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.720 things that work are you know, chastising people when they 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.600 don't when they don't meet their their quotas. And we've 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.680 seen that before with the California boards law, which has 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.800 also written about before that you know, uh, there's a 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:13.760 penalty a hundred thousand dollars, which you know is in 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.680 a ton of money for big companies, but there is 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.760 a penalty if you don't have a woman on your board. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.600 And I think and that really moved companies to move. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.400 So we'll we'll see as kind of this the public 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.199 reckoning is enough to keep companies on it, but I 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.240 definitely think, yeah, the target is a stub one stub 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.440 to is this pressure right? Right? Well? Uh, we love 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.480 your work and the work that you've been doing, not 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.760 just for Bloomberg Business Week but really running this team 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.320 that is taking this on has been spectacular. So thank you, 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.840 Rebecca Greenfield. Really good to catch up with you. Rebecca Greenfield, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.040 she oversees all of the managing diversity coverage for Bloomberg. 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.320 She joined us on the phone from New York. Till Webber, 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.800 the editor of the magazine the Special Equality Issue. He 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.520 joined us from Massachusetts. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:06.679 with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.480 so for Business Week Economics today, let's head down to 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.960 the a t L. Brad Dillman is their chief economists 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:18.480 for Courtland. He's been looking at the home sales numbers, 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.080 existing home sales numbers, and the broader housing data because housing, 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:26.520 we know Carol is such an important indicator of where 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.919 we are, where we've been, where we're going. Especially, we 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.240 all want to know where the heck we're going right now. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.080 So Brad, really nice to catch up with you. What's 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.760 the most important thing we need to know? Actually before 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.000 I ask you that, because you're in the A tail 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.880 in my hometown. Um, how is it down there? What's 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.840 going on? What's going on in Georgia? Right down here? 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:47.440 You know, we finally got rid of that hot weather. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.879 You look at our housing market, it's doing okay too. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.479 I think we've seen some outperformance in multi family, more 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.119 than we had expected given the condition. Kids back in school, Like, 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.119 what's going on around town? Well, our first grader is 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.240 going to be doing homeschooling this year. Um, I think 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.439 it varies city to city. But I don't actually know 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.400 because I only got a first grader and in preschool, 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.240 so I don't focus on the on schooling. I focused 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.320 on housing. We know, we know, we get that, we 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.000 totally get that. But what I guess what we're trying 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.679 to get at is as we talk with with individuals 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.080 around the country, we do like to check in with 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.439 them about how's it going on the virus because We 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.600 had some news today of some you know, clusters in 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.160 New York City where we're starting to see virus cases 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.920 pick up again. So we're just wondering, how's Atlanta doing. Yeah, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.200 so as far as the virus directly, you know, it's 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.640 Georgia has picked up a little bit, but it isn't 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.159 anything that's truly affecting our day to day. Our office 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.520 here at Courtlands has been opened for several months now, 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.280 and most of our folks choose to come in. We 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.119 do have a math policy, so people abide by that, 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.240 and if you go out, there are people with the restaurants, 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.320 so there's definitely still a social atmosphere going on that 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.200 kind of thing. But you know, our traffic is down 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.439 by a lot, and candidly, that makes it a lot 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.919 more livable. Yeah, oh my god, it's like Los Angeles 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.280 sometimes and it's worse moments down in Atlanta. Well, what's 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.520 interesting is your company is actually a multi family real 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.439 estate company, so you're involved in construction, design, property management, 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.639 you know, all of it. So you do have a 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.800 very strong window or clear window, if you will, into 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.960 what's going on in the housing market. You said traffic 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.320 is down, talk to us at bit about what you're seeing. Well, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.960 when I meant traffic, I meant traffic as on the road. Okay, 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.760 we're still seeing plenty of interest in the communities itself, 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.879 you are you know, Yeah, multi family occupancies have been 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.640 at roughly a twenty year high prior to COVID. Now 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.240 they have come down a little bit. Atlanta has held up, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.640 you know, just fine. We haven't had any any notable 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.119 issues here. Our segment is really more and sort of 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.480 a high b low a kind of a framework, and 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.359 that is generally a white collar worker that hasn't been 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.960 affected by the kind of job losses we've seen in 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.000 leisure and hospitality. But if we go back to National, 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.280 you know, you had a very very tight market when 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.560 it comes down to occupancies, they've come down a bit. 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.639 We think they may go down further, but we actually 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.600 think there's the potential they could tighten back up in 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.680 about a year and a year and a half and 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.800 we may see the re emergence some of those costs 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.680 of living pressures that we had that had really dominated 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.680 a lot of social narratives back about a year a 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.560 year and a half ago. Yeah, So what about the 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.320 sort of geographic shifts that we're seeing, especially from sort 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.200 of a white collar perspective, you know, with people saying, well, 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.720 if I don't need to be in a New York 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.680 or San Francisco or Los Angeles, you know, I may 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:38.040 favor moving to a Nashville and Atlanta and Austin Denver. 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.560 Is that manifesting yet in the data that that you're seeing, 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:47.399 either within the company's holdings or in the more national 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.200 data that you're saying, Yeah, this has been a trend 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.920 for some time. So I would actually say that migration 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:56.000 to the sun Belt, which is precisely Courtland strategies to 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.880 be in the Sun Belt, migration really peaked about four 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.720 or five years ago, and it's actually been flowing now. 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.960 It's still underway. It's still very attreative to those jurisdictions 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.639