WEBVTT - Ep. 272: Biden's First 100 Days 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:24.480 can't predict anything presented by first light, Go farther, stay longer. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:34.200 All right, ladies and gentlemen, Yohny is gonna introduce everybody. Annie, 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.720 Can I say what town we're near? Don't give a ship. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:43.160 We're here in southwest Michigan, at our buddy Matt's place 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:48.960 on some turks, less than an hour from my dad, 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.800 who I'm not going to see on this trip probably, 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:58.400 but who appreciates good interest. And uh, we got what 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:04.440 Fosburgh from TRC be Seth Morris, the flip flop Flesher Flesher, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:11.240 Ryan Callahan, oh cal four oh six on Instagram, and 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:17.120 Steven Ronella speaking Instagram handles. I was wondering why Joe 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:22.679 Surmelli from b Side Fishing, which is a great fishing 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.800 show if you haven't seen it, just one episode so far. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.520 At there's two out right now, there will be two. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.160 There's two out probably by the time this thing there is, 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:34.920 all four of them will be out Jersey fishing and 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:40.320 what else. It's all stuff around Jersey sunny. Oh nice, nice, 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.800 that's this season's theme. I've seen the new Jersey Turnpike 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.880 a couple of times on the show. No, just driving 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.000 on you just personally, that's all my experience. And did 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.600 you love it? Um? I thought it was, you know, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.320 as far as infrastructure goes, it was a solid piece 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.680 of work. You know the thing they have out east, Um, 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:02.520 I want to get back to Joe sph Milli's instagram 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.280 handled them out here. But the thing they have autise. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.680 You noticed those ones like that that have where there's 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.640 a huge median, Yeah, with all the mature trees in 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.400 the middle. Yeah, Like the medians so big you can't see, 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.880 like if you're going whatever northbound, you can barely see 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.560 the southbound traffic. When I was writing for Outside, I 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.160 kept they never let me do it, I know. I 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.079 kept being like, I want to do a story where 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.880 I camping them there for a week and you have 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:30.880 just someone just slow down on the highway, let me 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.639 jump out and then and then backpack and camp down 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.720 those long medians where no one can go because you 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.360 can't even get out there. You'd find some weird stuff 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.440 out there. Many. Yeah, that's a good idea, dude. I 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.520 have seen turkeys out living in those, I was gonna 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.800 say that no one's gonna get to him. Insurance companies 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.640 must hate those things. From White Tailed Deer crossing back again, 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.200 you see some of those, just like, there's no way 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.040 anybody is messing around in there. I think there's dear 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.280 living and dying and things, and they're owned by their 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:09.520 their own by Department Transportation. State. Yeah, State. They never 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:16.600 let me do that story. Uh Joe Uh Surmelli, it's 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.880 like Joe Dot. It's like Joe Surmellie one thirty eight. 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.280 Someone check fact check me. And I was saying, I 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:22.680 don't know what the hell the one thirty eight is. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.040 It's based off a Misfits song. Like I saw two 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.160 riddles at once. Because when we had the Nature's Metal 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.720 Dude on, I was talking about Joe Surmelli, he's a 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.760 metal guy, and I was saying, Joe SEMELI likes medal. 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.239 He said, what kind of metal? I'm I don't know 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:38.680 what Telly likes. Joe Dot smelly eight and it's from 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.920 that Misfits tune I Want thirty eight, which I still 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.040 don't know what the hell that means. But um ey, 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.520 what does that mean? Anyway? That's why he's Joe dot 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.080 Surmelli won three eight because the Misfits song one three eight, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.760 which if the Nature's Metal guy Rick is listening, he 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.360 likes that song. Maybe it's a union thing like local 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:02.040 Pipe Fitters one thirty eight. Yeah, it's gotta be a cow. Uh, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.040 guy wrote in lifelong Resident Wyoming, this is this is 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.440 a propos This is a propos of of at the 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.760 time of year being the spring, when um all good 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.840 men and women hunt turkeys. Uh. I didn't know this 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:21.279 about Wyoming. In Wyoming, you can still in the spring 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:28.480 season shoot turkeys. Do you know this? In the spring 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.800 season you can shoot turkeys with a rifle center center fire. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:37.040 Woo no, no, no room fire, no center fire. You 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.400 can you can shoot turkeys in the spring with a 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:44.440 center fire rifle. That changed the game. Huh. It should 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.320 change the game. It should change the way I feel 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.800 about I mean, and I wouldn't have changed the way 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:51.840 I feel about getting my camis on and sitting next 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:57.880 to my decoy, especially you're full strudder. Yeah, some dude 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.000 a hundred yards away, there's one wind blows and that 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.840 things starts moving. Yeah, or if coals out there eight 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.080 yards away, I like think you'd know a live turkey 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.159 from from a plastic one. But it takes all the 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:19.000 fun out of it. Though. The best, the best, you know, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.680 the best part about Spring Coller hunt is the interaction 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.599 to calling them in and yeah, for sure they have 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.880 they have the game. In Wyoming, Gaming Fish has an 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:35.159 open public comment period on these regulations. This guy's thinking 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.920 that shotguns and you know, shotguns and archery tackle is appropriate. 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:41.720 I'll take you an apocryphal ok ahead, Ni, I was 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.520 just gonna say, have an opinion and why it is 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.359 that way in Wyoming. I just think it's the wide 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:52.720 open spaces like you're probably not hunting turkeys in like 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.640 the classic turkey hunt country of the eastern United States. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:01.200 They're right hunt creek, valley, bottoms and yeah, just more 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:05.400 open country where the same way that where we're sitting 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.159 now in Michigan, you can't use a center high powered 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.520 rifle to hunting deer. It's too dense, too many people 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:17.000 and uh, you know, and Wyoming you can stretch it 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.360 out a little bit. I'll tell you sort of comes 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:21.880 out of Florida and you were here. I don't know 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.960 if you remember this, but you might have been not 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.360 here here but you were present on this trip where 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:33.960 someone is explaining about when a sportsman's group in Florida 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:42.520 wanted to UM address this issue. A turkey hunting group 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:48.039 was worried about rifle use during spring turkey season for 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:54.359 safety purposes. Like again, full camo there, flat ground, full 0:06:54.440 --> 0:07:03.800 camo decoys, jungle like have a tat landscape mimicking animal sounds. Right, 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.200 you start hearing it on and you start realizing it 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.480 seems like a way that there's a pathway towards someone 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.440 getting shot. And they this This Turkey hunting group wanted 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.960 to address UM what they thought was a real serious liability, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.720 which is being able to use rifles for spring turkey. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.520 They did not wanted to blow up into a UM 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:31.520 firearms rights question. And they had gone through quite a 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.480 bit of work too. Uh. They had gone through quite 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.600 a bit of work to explain that the motivation is 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:42.000 not a firearms restriction. This has nothing to do with ownership. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.120 This is like hunters advocating for other hunters than the 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.120 spring season should be shotguns to reduce risk. And when 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:52.920 it went for I don't know what ultimately happened, but 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.760 when it went forward, it did not go the way 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.360 they planned, and it very much became a UM it 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:07.080 became like a gun rights question and not a turkey 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.400 hunting questions. UM, I wonder if you can still now 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.960 use rifles. And I don't know this. We heard the 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.520 story a long time ago, and it might even have 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.480 been what it had already gone on. But either way, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.480 I think that also it's like when when people have 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.200 and I'm as guilty of his anybody not guilty. It's 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.760 not that you need to be guilty of it. I 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.400 have that tendency as much as anybody is. When you 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.920 have the ability to do something and all of a 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.560 sudden you can't, right, you kind of go like, well, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.400 what's up with that? Why is that a great question being? Um? 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.720 In Montana? Right, you can't look like bear hunting in Montana. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.920 You know it's not a public safety issue. But you 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.880 can't bait, you can't use dogs. People are quite okay 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:55.720 with that. If you live in a state where you 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:57.640 could use dogs and all a sudden you're not supposed 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.240 to use dogs anymore, it encounters a lot friction. But 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.920 if you're somewhere where something's always been a certain way, 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.439 it just becomes easier to deal with and So if 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:11.040 you're living, you know, in Wyoming, and you got a 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:12.880 place and every year you get a turkey with your 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.680 twenty meg and all sudden someone's like, no, no, now 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.520 you can picture that. You would, oh for sure be 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.000 a little miffed. Yeah, especially if I haven't shot anybody 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.720 super safe, never had an issue, never even came close 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.400 to having an issue. So why can't I sure I 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:36.760 can see other people, but not me? Very natural? This 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:42.280 is a good question that came in about turkeys. Um. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.480 He was wondering. Let's say, let's say, uh, you had 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:51.360 a pet turkey and you tethered him out in the field. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:10:00.640 Would that be a good decoy? Yeah, my Mike kids, buddy, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.679 their their family raises turkeys. I don't know what the 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.079 hell kind. They're like Spanish blacks or something. Spanish. I 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.439 wanna say, they don't have to be the right color. Dude, 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.160 Well that's some bitch in Turkey. We went over there 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.439 to get ours. I brought my boy over there with 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.520 a little twenty two shorts to shoot turkey that we 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:22.240 had they had gifted us. And I was startled, man, 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.679 I was like, are you sure that sounds a regular wild? 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.800 It looks like a wild turkey almost if you saw 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.240 it coming through the woods, dude, you would I got 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.360 nine out of ten people wouldn't be like, there's something 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.400 wrong with that turkey. We had grown up, we had 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:42.880 bronze and white turkeys, and man, they every every morning 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.560 in the spring there was a flock of wild turkeys 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.120 hanging out with them. Really yeah, yeah, yeah, this thing 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.640 was surprised. I mean it was like different, but surprisingly 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.400 it wasn't like you know, I went over there. I 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.200 was expecting some big ass white turkey, I don't know, 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.160 like something that looked like a Yeah, the bronze is one. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.440 It looks probably the closest, right, you know, it's like brown. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.240 Oh I can't remember that ordered one or we ordered 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:13.080 a bunch. Actually, Jake's gonna take a few off my hands. 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:17.080 But they're they're coming to my house, I believe in 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.440 July or August. But when you're getting turkeys, yeah yeah, 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.600 we're gonna eat some part and and then I'm gonna 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.920 learn how to call better from these uh hands. I'm 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.200 gonna keep some hands around. But another another reason I 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.360 want to have them around is because yeah, they're gonna 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.160 be making some noise all the time. And I hope 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.880 to attract some wild turkeys. You probably attract grizzly bear 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.160 here one of me to day that you might have 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.200 you might have your your that might excite your BlackBerry 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:49.439 Johnnie UM. Dr Michael Chamberlain turkey dock wild turkey dock 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:54.440 on Instagram. UM. He says, if the bird acted in 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.760 any way normal, it would be incredibly effective, which is 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.720 why I don't you'll find a stay where it's legal, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.000 because I don't know that. But I'd be stunned if 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.560 any states actually allow use to live decoys. He said 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.680 that thing was. That type of thing was the outlawed 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.640 decades ago around waterfowl hunting, and that used to be 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:19.360 a practice put ducks. I wonder what an abnormal turkey 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:25.760 acts like a peacock panicked. It would only be effective 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.400 it was if it acted normal. If it acted panicked. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.480 Oh yeah, if it's like constantly like hunches close to 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.599 the ground and looks over at shoulder and tries to 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:40.480 run away. What I had, What I had a handful. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.800 I learned a new thing about turkeys, uh, because I 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.920 think I was able to witness several times over the 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:56.600 last couple of days. UM watching deer and turkeys coming 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:02.560 uh in a food plot together. That if a deer 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:09.360 freaks out and runs away like spooks and runs, jumps 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:14.400 and runs whatever, the turkeys are like, they kind of 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:20.080 lift their heads up, but I don't really care when 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:25.800 that deer goes. Holy smokes man, it takes those turkeys 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.800 ten minutes to put their heads back down, even if 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.240 it's off, even if it's off in the distance. And 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.560 I today watched I heard a dear blow. I watched 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.360 nine hens all stick their heads up. And I watched 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:45.240 two fox squirrels run to a tree, go up the 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:51.600 tree and start chattering over a deer blowing close but 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.760 a deer blowing. And it took those things, I'm like, 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.840 definitely six minutes to stick their heads back down again. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.120 That's valuable observation. People bring up like what do animal 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.200 you know? How do animals right? And I remember um 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.720 Ah talking about pine squirrels that that that you know, 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:13.600 you get irritate when you're el conning or whatever. Now 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.120 a pine squirrel sees you, but then you realize that 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.520 they're also doing it to elk. But then we had 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.640 a squirrel. Researchers say that pine squirrels are usually doing 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:26.040 that to pine squirrels, like, so, I think the animals 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.680 they don't care at all when pine sus going. Everybody's like, 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.160 the guy's always doing that. But man, the deer blow 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.120 is an attention grabber. They they had these researches once 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:41.320 took I don't know what the hell they look like, 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.960 but a vervet monkey and know what that is? Verbt 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.160 verbet monkey. Mhm. They went to this troop of monkeys 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:55.840 and created a well, let me back up a little bit. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.520 They found that these monkeys have a variety of warning calls, 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.040 and they have warning calls that are directed towards a 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.400 threat on the ground, and they have warning calls that 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.560 are used for a threat in the air, and there's 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.000 they're different, and depending on what noise comes out, the 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:22.360 animals will respond by clearing the ground or getting up 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.520 against the trunk and looking up. They were able to 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:31.560 record a specific vervet monkey doing his alarm call, and 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.720 then they started playing it all the time to the 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.600 troop until they blew that monkey's credibility and people quit 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.160 paying attention to that monkey. He became the boy who 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.480 cries wolf. Monkeys quit paying attention to that monkey. They 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.000 blew his credibility by He's like, oh, there he is again, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:55.400 you know, but there's no problem. He's probably passed. Yeah, 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.160 it's manipulative, man um. I noticed basically every time crows 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.000 flew over the decoys, like low, they made a racket. 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.120 It's like they flew over the food plot, saw that 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.720 there's decoys and started calling aggressively. Oh, I thought you 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.320 meant that the turkeys take note of No, the crows 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.560 is just flying over. Like multiple times I noticed crows 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.080 flying over silent and they flew over, hit the food 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.600 plot like look down, saw the decoys and started making Uh. 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.120 Aaron Warburton, the guy from the hunting public that I 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.720 got to hunt within Georgia a few weeks back, he 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:36.240 actually takes note and when continues to like keep an 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.040 eye on the crows that are working the zone and 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.840 if he's like, man, those crows or he'll be like, oh, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.520 gobbler gobbled earlier over there. And if you've noticed those 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.920 crows have sort of been hanging around over there, they're 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.800 pestering that turkey and the turkeys that the turkeys, they 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.840 are with that turkey, Yeah, and like messing with him. 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:01.840 M hmm um. That that is, you know, a documented 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.959 deal with with big game as far as um. You know, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:13.320 scavenger birds alerting predators to large praise sources, especially in 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.000 the winter, because they're they're going to get a reward 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.359 if something dies. Um. But I would think that like 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:25.320 crows ravens, they probably eat or you know, try to 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:30.800 eat young turkey polt or locating nests here and there too. 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.560 I'm sure there's a there's a real interaction there. You know. 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.240 Another thing that I had never picked up on because 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.680 I didn't have such a like such a controlled concentrated, 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:49.560 high volume area to observe it, is that we use 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.720 these turkey coys d S d S. David Smith decoys, 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:54.560 and holy sh it, I mean a dude looks at 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.320 they look at it, freaking turkey turkey looks at and 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.800 they look like a turkey. So turkeys will come out. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.680 I was hunting with for new season with my boy. 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.880 A turkey came out, A hand came out and bedded 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:13.760 down to to preen herself between my strawer and my 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.000 hand decoy and laid down in the grass and and 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:24.560 groomed herself. That as awesome, very contentedly. Um. Last night 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:30.160 I had seven hens out, seven real live turkey hens 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:36.680 out in a field with my two decoys. Totally bought 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.600 into it, like totally bought into it. Some deer, and 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.800 again and again I saw his having deer come out, 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.159 dear man, this they the minute they stepped clear of 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.359 the brush, just like something's wrong with that turkey. Like 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.080 whatever they see is like, like, what they see isn't 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:56.800 what I mean, we all know it's not what we see. 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:01.240 It's definitely isn't what a turkey sees. They see something 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.720 and then and they're stomping their foot the minute they 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.320 stick their nose out. They there's something about the sheen 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.880 of it. I don't know what they are, not buying it, 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.359 circling it, stomping at it, trying to get down wind 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:16.920 that deer or leaving the oir deal come out and 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:18.360 right with a deer and be like, don't like that. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:25.520 I would love to know what it is that they Yeah, 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.880 direction at all, man. It's real freaking turkeys out there, 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.800 all right. But your decoy doesn't have like a little 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.160 funk to it from just rubbing against your head. Doesn't 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.399 seem it seems visual, man, It seems like you know 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.719 how like this whole thing that they you know, they 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.800 don't see what we see, and we know that, and 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:45.439 people always trying to tell you what they see, but 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.440 you know, they don't see what we see. And there's 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.160 something about the finish on it, the material on it. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:59.560 They see that and they're like yeah, or maybe it's like, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.880 you know, the stillness of them, the lack of movement, 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.320 because I feel like a lot of times there's a 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.280 real there's a real sort of sense of cure curiosity, 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.480 like they kind of come towards it. They stumped their 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.080 feet at it. You know, they do a lot of 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.800 those sort of like hercuy jerky motions, like trying to 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.919 see if like maybe when it puts its head away 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.320 doesn't move, you know, and I think it makes them uneasy, 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.560 how a little motion there is. Maybe maybe it's just 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:30.040 that another thing I saw is certainly a dear decoy 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:37.080 that's completely still emotionless. It fools a deer. Yeah, it 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.560 might just be something about it's like body language or 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.440 another thing. This is a small sample size. I can't 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.680 say it's for sure yet, but this this is of interest, 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.280 is that I was watching a fox squirrel today to 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:57.320 fox girls that were perched up in trees and theyre 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.240 was hanging around and when these turkeys came out, don't 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.359 know what this, I don't know what it's. What does 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:07.600 that planet? And up there? It's when are we um 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:09.840 on the Why the hell the squirrels want to be 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:14.680 out in there? Wheat seeds? Yeah, there might be. I 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:16.640 was trying to watch him him by bnoctors. Whatever they're 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:18.320 picking up so small you can't see it, but they're 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.960 picking something up, you know, But for me to you, 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.240 I can't tell the hell they're grabbing. It's probably seed 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.240 or I noticed there was there was some maple trees 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.320 that had the oh, they might be getting the spinners off. 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.800 When the hens came out, the squirrel came out with 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:42.280 them and basically fed underneath them. And where they went, 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.639 he went, And he didn't go out there until they 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.560 went out there. I don't know. Extra set eyes. And 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.920 last night I was sneaking into that same spot and 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.879 I could see some hens, So I stopped and waited 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.679 for the hens to pass through. And as they passed through, 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.240 I realized there's a scroll going behind them. It might 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.960 be just him. It might be just him. I don't know. 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:15.840 Lost his parents at a young age raised by turkeys. Yeah, um, 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.760 I did. Uh another quick No, there's two turners in turkey. 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.040 Know what. I'm sorry all people that turkeys drive people crazy. 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.760 Apologies at the time, but I took my two kids. 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.119 They're out there, Yanni, they are out They right into you. 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.840 They are out there and they're sick of freaking turkeys. 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:39.200 It'll end, it'll start back up again. Um. It took 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:45.280 my two kids to for youth turkey season Wisconsin. So 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:46.760 the state I live in, you have to be ten 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:49.240 to hunt turkeys on anything, you have to be ten 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:53.720 years old and then you Um, I think I'm mostly 0:22:53.720 --> 0:23:00.520 getting this right. Uh. Generally states have generally this is 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:04.040 this is very much true. States have reduced or eliminated 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.960 age barriers for hunting because they've gotten into States have 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.679 gotten into these mentor hunting things. So for instance, when 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.800 I was a little boy, you have to be fourteen 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.680 to hunt deer with a gun, twelve to hunt deer 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.639 with a bow. But you could jump right into doing it. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:23.080 It was like you could jump into not being able 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:25.320 to do it at all, and then at twelve you 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.280 could go out by yourself and hunt squirrels. So what 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.240 a lot of states have done they've institute these these 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:35.440 mentorship things. So in Montana, for instance, once your kids ten, 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.320 they can hunt for two years without before they need 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.359 to do hunter safety. So a kid can hunt for 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.000 two years about doing hunter safety, but they have to 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.560 be within arms reach of a mentor. And the mentor 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.600 has to be a licensed hunter of a certain age 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.879 twenty one years of age maybe has been licensed certain 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:57.240 age thing license and good standing, and then they had 0:23:57.280 --> 0:23:59.800 to fill out they have to fill out a mentor form. 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:04.040 So now my my boy who's ten, um, he was 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.879 able to hunt deer with me last year. Um and 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.359 you know his uncle signed up as his mentor too. Uh. 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:15.000 Wisconsin has no age restrictions. Um, as long as your mentored. 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:17.800 So I took my two kids, my eight year old 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:22.960 daughter and my ten year old boy two uh Wisconsin 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:26.320 because they could each hunt. So me and my buddy 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.680 Doug were able to take those two out hunting and 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:32.639 they each got their They each got their first turkey. 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.240 My daughter got one. She had to shoot it twice, 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.879 but yeah, a little bit of long story, but got 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.879 one with a four ten with a red dot scope, 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:46.040 which I think is a wonderful way to go for 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:49.520 little kids. You think she's hooked very much. She asked 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:53.480 Doug if she could hunt there again next year. That's great. 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:57.920 She liked it a bunch, liked it a bunch, very cool, 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:01.879 liked everything about it. But how they handle it getting up, 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:08.000 they don't care, rose Mary to the other, that's cool. Yeah, 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:11.440 they're good at getting up. Um long list of things 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:13.119 that we're always adding to it. Things that will make 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:16.240 Turkey's gobble. The guy was picking up his son from 0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:18.240 a play date. That's a word that used to not 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:25.320 be around. What what was the substitution? I don't know. 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:26.720 When you were a kid, you didn't go on a 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:29.199 plate eight the hell did you do? You hung out 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:33.560 with your buddy. But that's why I like, I resisted. 0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:35.679 Like in our household, I don't like my wife. Everybody 0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:37.240 used that. I don't. I don't. My kid even uses 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:39.399 his dame. I don't use that word. You don't say, 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:41.680 you know what we should do a range of play date? No, 0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:45.040 I say you're gonna go to your buddy's house, you'd 0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:49.000 be like, yeah, for a plate date? Anyways, picking up 0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:53.840 his kid. That word was never ever said until I 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.000 don't recall it either. Yeah, I remember hearing a linguist. Um. 0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:00.600 I was listening to an NPR never interview the linguists 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:03.640 and the linguists explaining what they do, like what kind 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:05.639 of thing they work on. And they were and they 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:09.359 said something interesting. They were giving something that they were 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:13.440 interested in, and they were saying it wasn't that long ago. 0:26:15.359 --> 0:26:20.720 No waiter or waitress said, are you still working on that? 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.679 But then there it was, and it was everywhere. How 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:35.280 does that happen? Right right? Good question? And there's a 0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:37.080 lot of things in languages that are like that. You know, 0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.320 it's an interesting deal. Clean plate club. Do you guys 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.040 ever say that in your households? Every night? Every night? 0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:47.360 So never, it's a strictly enforced club man. Never never 0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:50.120 heard it anywhere else, never heard it anywhere else. I'm 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:53.920 working as a busser in high school in this Do 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:57.439 you remember McKay is on the river? Right? I had 0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:00.920 a bunch of guns all over the place. Uh, restaurant 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:04.720 that is no longer a restaurant in Missoula. Um, I'm 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:09.040 working as a busser in there, and I'm, you know, 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:14.119 bussing this guy's table and and he said, yeah, I 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:15.560 didn't think i'd be able to get through it. But 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:18.280 I remember the Clean Plate Club. That was the first time, 0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:23.960 and I was like, are we related? Where are you from? Yeah? 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:27.200 Because you grew up knowing it, but you had never 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:31.440 heard it. Yeah, right outside of the family, like you 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:35.040 just like did not exist for whatever reason, never heard it. Yeah. 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:40.320 Someways this feller picking up his kid from a plate 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:43.800 just for you, you folks, at home, his kids playing 0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:46.760 with his buddy, and uh, he's gathered his kids bike 0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:49.320 to load it up into his truck and the kickstands 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:53.520 scrape the concrete driveway lo and behold, Tom cuts out. 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:57.920 So then he gets the family back out of the truck, 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:00.359 has scraping against the pavement a whole bunch more eventually 0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:06.320 gets another goal added to the list. It's the list 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.800 um in in the law. So yeah, this one, this 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:14.119 one kills me, man, This kills me personally. We did 0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:15.600 a we did a piece about it. If you go 0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:18.840 to the meat eater dot com. Um Our our very 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:22.600 own Sam Longren wrote up a piece on this. Uh 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:28.000 New Mexico past a bill banning all trapping on public land, 0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:34.440 even live traps, even cage traps, public land, public land 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:43.400 trapping is now done signing the law. Democratic Governor Grisham 0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:48.200 signing the law past thirty five to thirty four. Who 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:55.040 all publics all? And you know what, here's the part 0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:56.440 of it gets me this, This is the part of 0:28:56.480 --> 0:29:03.240 this It becomes conversation worthy. The law was nicknamed Roxy's 0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:08.960 Law because in two thousand eighteen a dog was killed 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:16.000 in an illegally set snare. So a person violating with 0:29:16.160 --> 0:29:20.160 a snare catches and kills a dog. The logical extension 0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:27.640 of that is to ban to make legal trapping illegal. 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:30.920 The other part about this is law abding citizens. To 0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:35.400 penalize law abding citizens. Here's the other problem. New Mexico 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:39.760 Fish and Game Commission had just enacted a bunch of 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:45.240 new limits on trapping methods and equipment. Mandatory certification classes, 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:50.760 prohibitions on trapping your population centers, prohibitions on trapping near trailheads. 0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:54.240 Never gave the rules, never even gave him a chance 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.560 to take effect and see what the results would be. 0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:01.280 So in terms of all the things that are pursued, 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:03.520 just just so people get a little bit understanding of this, 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:10.280 I live near a links recovery zone, okay, and in 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:17.360 our links recovery zone. You a trap that's big enough 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:19.200 to catch the links, too big enough to hold and 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:23.040 catch a links which is smaller than most dogs and 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:26.680 more fragile than most dogs, has to be by law 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:30.920 four ft off the ground over a certain size. Even 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:32.920 if it is four ft off the ground, if it's 0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.680 big enough for a links, Again, it also has to 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:38.160 be in and it's recommended to put it inside an 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:42.120 enclosed box and over a certain size trap has to 0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:46.080 be in a recessed and closed box. There are a 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:51.640 lot of things you can try um before you do that. 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:55.360 And the other part of this draws into question is 0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:59.720 again and again, when you see trapping bands, it's all 0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:04.000 we's it's like dogs, dogs, dogs, And I don't understand 0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:08.880 if if people where does it become like how did 0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:10.920 it become that it's like a god given right to 0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:14.280 have your dog not leashed wherever you want to have 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.760 a dog not leashed. Why isn't it that there's rules 0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:19.760 governing how you manage your dog in certain areas during 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:22.640 certain times a year. Well, the rule is is your 0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:26.719 animal has to be under control, right, that doesn't mean 0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:31.400 a leash. But you know, like Janice's dog is born 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:35.760 to run and run far beyond eyesight to follow his 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:39.160 nose and do his job. But Janice has a serious 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:43.200 investment around his neck in a GPS tracking caller and 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:46.400 has got a tone on there, and uh, you can 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:49.800 you can zap him till you can shock him right right, 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.360 But now you just use the tone that says better 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.920 come back or I'm gonna zapp here right um, and 0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:59.760 I would argue that that is in control now and will. 0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:02.520 There're of areas you do have to have them on 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:06.320 a leash, most wilderness areas. There are some that have exceptions, 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:10.520 but Solo's got a ticket once. So houndsman can't operate 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:13.760 in a designated wilderness and some designated wilderness unless you 0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:16.160 wants to track on a leash. I don't know about that, 0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:20.160 because they might have a um exception for you know, 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:24.600 dogs that are pursuing or you know hunting that must 0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:29.760 be man. Yeah, I've never never heard that rule. I 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:32.719 mean there there's I'm sure there's like some sensitive areas 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.920 like watershed areas and stuff like that where they worry 0:32:35.920 --> 0:32:40.080 about like the it's whatever, what's the one south of 0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:46.680 Vale there? Um, it's the Eagles Nest Wilderness? I think 0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:51.280 it is but yeah, I'm like seven eight miles back, 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.200 not even on a trail, just kind of cruising along 0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.680 the hillside, kind of looking at benches and scouting for elk, 0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:01.400 And just got the dog with me and and walk 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:04.080 into a meadow and there's a force or a stranger. 0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:06.600 He happened to be there because he was looking for 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:11.920 UM dog owners, uh pasture ground for horses because they 0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:14.040 were in there doing some work on on bridges and 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:16.479 stuff that they needed to bring in equipment, so they 0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.480 needed a spot to graze the horses. So that's what 0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:21.960 he was doing there. I was just cruising along scouting 0:33:22.040 --> 0:33:25.280 for elk. We got to talking and as I'm leaving, 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:30.160 He's like, by the way, no way. Yeah, God, I've 0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:31.880 never heard of that in my life. Boy, that guy 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:36.760 could make a serious living walking around the Bob Marshall Yeah, 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:40.160 righting tickets. Um, well again, I don't think I think 0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:45.120 that it's per wilderness. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Uh Yeah. 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:49.600 The other thing that bugs bugs me. Okay, so like, um, 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:55.040 you have a bad actor and illegal trapper, do any 0:33:55.040 --> 0:34:01.440 illegal things that uh then gets this crazy enforcement brought 0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:04.840 down on all legal trappers. Makes no sense to me. 0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:10.480 Um public lands are for the most part by definition, 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:15.080 not even I mean pretty much ubiquitous land of many 0:34:15.200 --> 0:34:18.880 uses zones. They're set aside for everybody, and that can 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:23.960 be like everybody from miners to joggers, right like hard 0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:28.120 rock miners, not spandex miners or what am I saying, 0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:33.000 you drinkers miners? There you go, thank you? Um and 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:38.640 uh God, there is an insane amount of public land 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:43.360 in New Mexico. I looked it up. Don't have it 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:45.440 in front of me, but it's over thirty million acres 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:49.600 of public land in New Mexico. I'll give you the 0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:53.839 couple of reasons why this this tears me up inside. Uh. 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:57.600 I'm gonna speak to a state that I know well, 0:34:57.760 --> 0:34:59.880 but just so people can begin to kind of understand. 0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:04.880 Um a little bit about some of the mechanisms, like 0:35:05.440 --> 0:35:10.680 some some of the tools at hand to mitigate conflict 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:19.000 around trapping and dog stuff. We have setback rules um campgrounds, 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:24.000 setback rules for roadways, setback rules for designated trails. Sometimes 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:27.239 where you're go into an area and you can't find 0:35:27.320 --> 0:35:29.160 a place that falls if you've got to roll the 0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.759 switchbacks or a trail network to switch backs around, you 0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:35.239 can't find a place to get clean of the setbacks, 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:38.480 meaning a setback meaning they'll they'll take a trail. You 0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.000 go into your rags and says like this trail network. 0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:45.759 You can't do anything within UM the either side of 0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:51.279 the trail. No setting anything UM a type of trap 0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:53.960 that used to get dogs, be like a big body 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:57.919 grip and traps three conno bears uh in our state 0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:00.279 for instance, that thing has to be half somemer urged. 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:04.080 You can't set it on dry ground. You take like 0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:09.240 cable restraints UM snares. They have things like the states 0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:11.520 can come in and mandate that has a relaxing lock, 0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:14.680 meaning that the lock doesn't get tighter tighter, tighter, tighter, 0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:16.560 has relaxed. Once it's closed, you put it has to 0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:18.520 have a deer stop on it, so it can only 0:36:18.560 --> 0:36:21.680 close to a certain diameter. UM. They have to have 0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:25.520 breakaway devices on them. Okay, like a certain poundage of 0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:29.200 of pressure breaks the thing away the relaxing thing to 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:32.120 make it non leasal lethal states will put into things 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:34.480 that the snare can't have anything around the circle that 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:37.720 would allow it to become entangled, so that it becomes 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:39.799 like really like a cable so it functions as an 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:45.640 animal restraint. There are so many things you can do, UM, 0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:50.239 so many things you can do that that best practices 0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.040 that can be implemented. UM. It just seems to me 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:57.840 like a wildly just a wildly reactionary thing. And I 0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:00.880 don't think it's about dogs. Because this dog, this roxy 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:03.560 they got killed by the illegal snare, was killed near 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:06.160 Santa Fe. I'll tell what kills dogs in Santa Fe's coyotes. 0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:08.920 Are these people anti coyote that kills a lot of dogs? 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:12.080 Kyotes killed dogs in l A. Why don't they anti kyote? 0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:15.879 You're You're trapping knowledge is great for people who want 0:37:15.920 --> 0:37:21.040 to like care an iota enough to actually know about trapping. 0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:25.160 And then that's not the people that are banning trapping, like, 0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:27.439 it's not the people who know about trapping or want 0:37:27.480 --> 0:37:30.239 to know about trapping. UM. I guess my point with 0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:33.080 public land is I've hiked all over Hell and gone 0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:35.680 in New Mexico. I've never seen a trapper or a 0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:41.680 dog walker in any right. There's room enough for everybody. 0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:43.640 And if you want to be invested in the fact 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:47.040 that we have public lands, you need to understand that 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:52.680 those are set aside for everybody and man, there's a 0:37:52.760 --> 0:37:55.520 lot of things that I do not do that are 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:58.399 totally legal on public land. And if you're doing those 0:37:58.440 --> 0:38:05.239 in a respectful manner, man, I'll go to bat for you. Now, 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:09.240 Like there's there's a lot of land to go around 0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:14.319 and to outright band trapping just because you don't want 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:21.279 to even understand it is just assinine and like all 0:38:21.400 --> 0:38:25.080 of your crazy crud. We could come after, right, your 0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:27.800 big biker, we can come after that. Ban that on 0:38:27.880 --> 0:38:33.120 all public land. Big you know, It's just it's it's 0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:39.160 like foundationally destabilizing to the public land. Ethos powerful dog 0:38:39.239 --> 0:38:42.879 lobby man, but even live traps kind of blows my mind. 0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:47.560 That's why it's like it's not God bless Roxy. Roxy 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:51.840 is being used as a proxy. This is not about Roxy, No, 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:54.400 it is not. That's a great I've heard plenty of 0:38:54.440 --> 0:38:58.080 stories of horses kicking dogs on the trail. Oh better 0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:03.080 need band horses and bank Um. I did think it 0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:06.600 was funny considering like especially you bring up Santa Fe. 0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:08.719 Santa Fe is a great town to walk around and do. 0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:15.160 Some people watch him the style, the distinctly Southwestern style. Um, 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:20.839 you talking about ponytails. I'm talking about I'm talking about 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:26.239 leather goods because we're talking about trapping. Uh. There's a 0:39:26.360 --> 0:39:30.399 decent amount of fur around that town too, which is hilarious. Uh. 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:34.520 I think, yeah, you gotta find a new style Southwest 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:37.480 if you want a band trapping, get rather all of 0:39:37.560 --> 0:39:41.880 your leather goods. House Bill one seventy two and Vermont 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:48.520 Vermont House Bill one seventy two would ban all trapping 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:53.560 other than the licensed wildlife control operator. Ban all trapping. 0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:57.000 Also band hunting bears with us the hounds can't you 0:39:57.040 --> 0:40:01.359 already can't bait in Vermont. So bas sically you'd go like, oh, 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:04.600 it's no one should bill hunt bears, and you you 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:11.719 roll those in together. Mm hm. Listen, man, people like 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:15.680 I am a believer. I am a believer in the 0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:19.600 slippery slope. I think that the slope is there. I 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:24.839 think that it's slippery. Oh absolutely, man, you know, I mean, 0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:27.920 you just start whittling, especially in these cases, right, you 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:32.560 just start whittling away the group of people that participate 0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:36.280 in these activities and and give a ship enough about 0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:40.360 it to like go to bad for them if you 0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:43.560 were able to whoever it is that's behind us, Okay, 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:46.160 and it's not wouldn't be hard to find out. I'm 0:40:46.200 --> 0:40:49.480 guessing h s u S almost certainly by the Maine study, 0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:54.319 United States is almost certainly like involved here. Um, if 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:59.359 you could sneak into their bedroom and hear what they 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:04.759 talk about in bed at night, it would be they're 0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:07.600 not even in bed over the phone with their colleagues. 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.800 It's not like, oh, once we can get this bare 0:41:11.960 --> 0:41:15.440 hound thing taken care of, I'm gonna hang up my spurs, 0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:20.960 m the world will be perfect. Oh sleep, No, it's 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:24.320 just like they're like, they have it in mind what 0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:28.279 they would like to end, and it's it's it's honey 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:32.040 and fishing and into some extremes like pet ownership. Weirdly 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:34.560 like they'd like to see that end. And then you 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:36.360 look and you'd be like, what are the things we 0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:39.160 can accomplish right now? What are the things we accomplish 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:43.120 right now? Anything to do with dogs is low hanging 0:41:43.160 --> 0:41:48.080 fruit with traps. If you're a pet owner and you 0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:51.879 support hs us Man, you need to pull your head 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:54.719 out of your butt and and take another look at 0:41:54.760 --> 0:41:57.960 who you're sending your money to. Not anybody listening to 0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:01.080 this podcast is doing that. I don't know but I 0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:03.400 guarantee you there's folks in Vermont who aren't going to 0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:07.600 write in on the trapping bill. Right, It's like you 0:42:07.920 --> 0:42:11.120 you folks better know your representative as well. Yeah, what 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:15.440 will Clay Knucolm say, guards gate Man? Is that what 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:24.239 Clay Newcomb and say when something gets banished? Clay he 0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:26.000 was like he wants to hang a painting of it 0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:28.239 upside down on a ceiling. Its symbolic to him. I 0:42:28.280 --> 0:42:43.480 don't really understand it. All right. We've had a lot 0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:45.600 of people here's a great here's a great tool for folks, 0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:48.200 you folks at home. A lot of people written in, Uh, 0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:51.239 we're always a hobby of ours here at the Meat 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:54.120 Eater podcast is explain all the weird ways in which 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:57.839 you're not allowed to barter in trade wildlife and people. 0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:01.319 The minute you say, like you can't sell wild game, 0:43:01.960 --> 0:43:03.600 the obvious ques and I'm not I'm not dogging on 0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:06.239 people who ask this question, like like you can't sell venison, right, 0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:10.520 I can't. I can't go to my buddy's farm shoot 0:43:10.560 --> 0:43:14.480 a deer, shoot a wild deer, shoot a deer, butcher 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:18.240 and then and then go down to the farmer's market 0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.960 and sell my dear meat, like, you can't very illegal 0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.279 to do it. You can't sell wild game um from 0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:26.440 from a food perspective, And so people bring up the 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:31.360 really logical question, well, why can't you sell it's antlers? 0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:34.040 Why can't you sell taxdermy? Why can you sell his 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:37.000 tanned hides? Like? How do you make sense of this 0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:41.920 whole thing? Um our our colleague Corey who if you 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:45.160 write in if you write us an email, UM, and 0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:47.480 you wanted to get red, you got a butter up? 0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:49.680 I would address it to Corey and butter hm up 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:51.600 a little bit. Corey, calculm's butter him up and your 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:55.400 your your email get better handled. Uh. He found an 0:43:55.600 --> 0:43:59.839 interesting website. It's an online guide to selling taxidermy. Had 0:43:59.880 --> 0:44:04.920 to state sales and auctions. I think it's answer. It 0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:07.799 helps with some of the helps with some of the legalities. 0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:13.719 Here's a question if say, say I shoot a white 0:44:13.760 --> 0:44:18.040 tailed dough and you're like, I'll take care of that 0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:21.120 for you. I'll cut it up for you, but the 0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:28.680 it's gonna cost me eighty bucks for bags and tape 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:32.480 or whatever. Is that like if I give you eighty 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:36.160 dollars to do that just to cover materials you can 0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:39.520 do like you could. You could shoot the deer, give 0:44:39.600 --> 0:44:42.719 me the deer. I could take the deer you gave 0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:45.719 me down and pay for processing. You could shoot a 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:47.640 deer and drop it off at the processor. I could 0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:49.759 go down and pay the processing and bring the whole 0:44:49.800 --> 0:44:52.640 thing home. But then I can't give you five don't 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:54.680 I don't give you five bucks for the deer got. 0:44:56.520 --> 0:44:58.640 What would have happened if you said, here's what if 0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:01.400 you reimburse the state. You said, I'm gonna sell you 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:02.920 the hide. Here's a here's a good one for a 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.879 game ward, and someone right in you shoot it here. Okay, 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.960 you get your dough and you're like, I'll sell you 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:10.799 that deer hide for a hunter bucks and I'll fill 0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:17.640 the deer in free. Then what happens, Yeah, that's a 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:23.399 good one. What if what if you're like, I'm like Steve, 0:45:23.440 --> 0:45:26.600 I want I want your deer that you got this year, 0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:29.960 and you said, yep, no problem. Are we role playing 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:35.880 right now? But the tag costs me seventeen bucks? Right? 0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:39.440 You couldn't do that. In Alaska they have a lot 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:45.520 of what's called proxy hunting um and it's an interesting system. 0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:54.319 Alaska has proxy hunting where the elderly individuals, say, can 0:45:54.880 --> 0:46:01.120 buy a tag, they could buy a deer tag or 0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:06.000 by give make you their proxy and you hunt on 0:46:06.080 --> 0:46:11.280 their behalf, but the deer goes to them. It's applicable 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:14.200 in some areas and not applicable another like applicable around 0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:17.240 some hunts and not applicable brown others. You can proxy 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:25.520 hunt my elderly neighbor really wanted a doll sheep this year? Right, Yeah, 0:46:25.560 --> 0:46:29.520 I don't think it's limited to very it's limited and 0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:31.880 I'm not a subject matter expert, but it's but the 0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:35.360 proxy hunting is limited to more kind of meat and 0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:37.960 potatoes kind of issues, you know. Yeah, I'm guessing it's 0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:42.360 a way to uh, you know, keep the subsistence lifestyle 0:46:42.520 --> 0:46:46.800 alive and well, so you hunt for others really wanted 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:52.680 a ten foot plus brown bear? Yeahni. Now that you're 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:55.839 reviewing a state sales dot org, are you just as 0:46:55.880 --> 0:46:59.640 you as you give it a cursory inspection? Are you 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:02.480 buy in it or you feeling like it? Yeah? Yeah, 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:06.359 most states are just it's just saying any taxidermy may 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:12.879 be sold, you know, as long as it was obtained legally, etcetera. Etcetera. Uh, 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:18.440 California now has quite a few paragraphs here, one giant paragraph. 0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:27.320 Alaska had some extra rules. Colorado everything besides bargal bladders, 0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:36.280 bighorn sheep, bigcorn sheep, capes, velvet antlers. Hmm. Connecticut everything 0:47:36.440 --> 0:47:41.600 besides endangered species. Yeah, it's all here a state sales 0:47:41.680 --> 0:47:46.600 dot org. A lot of black bear parts are out 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:50.160 in some in some states. So there you go. People 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:51.680 that need to dig in deep and have all kinds 0:47:51.680 --> 0:47:53.640 of crazy questions check that out. But I don't. I 0:47:53.680 --> 0:47:57.040 want to clarify we're not vouching for it. A lot 0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:59.120 of times you look at like the problem I found. 0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:00.360 You try to go to things as they give you 0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:02.120 a state by state roundups, and if you go like 0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:04.080 what are hunters orange laws in all the states? Right? 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:06.920 The damn laws changed so fast and people don't go 0:48:07.000 --> 0:48:09.440 update the website. Absolutely. You gotta kind of go like 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:11.959 you want to go to the source. Yeah. I would 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:14.520 think if you want, if you really come down to 0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:17.800 brass tacks on some item on whether to buy it 0:48:17.960 --> 0:48:21.640 or sell it, I would contact probably US Fish and Wildlife. 0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:26.799 Here's good email. He poses this as of what would 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:31.359 we do? Um, But I don't really, I don't really 0:48:31.400 --> 0:48:34.080 understand the U. Let me tell you the story. A 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:35.719 bunch of guys are out jump shooting ducks on a 0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:41.960 neighbor's pond. Okay you with me? So yeah? And they 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:46.080 have a dog. How do you say this dog? Yeah? Okay, 0:48:46.120 --> 0:48:48.800 they have a draw A lot of folks just referred 0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:52.120 to they have a drawer. They got to retrieve ducks. 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:55.960 They sneak up on the little pond. A bunch of 0:48:56.040 --> 0:48:59.160 ducks jump up, A couple dozen jump they jump up 0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:04.719 bam by man bowie to get some ducks. The old 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:11.200 man's yelling that he um, he got one too. Now 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:14.560 the dog. Here's where the steer story gets weird. The 0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:20.759 dog goes out to retrieve the ducks. The dog gets 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:22.360 all the ducks, and then he wants to make He 0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:24.399 does a triple check to make sure they're not missing anything. 0:49:24.520 --> 0:49:27.719 Nothing got away. As he's walking the edge of the 0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:31.800 pond to check around um because it seemed to be 0:49:31.840 --> 0:49:38.160 some uncertainty about who got what, the dog jumps abedded 0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:43.719 deer a yearly and sets to chasing. The dry fire 0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:47.880 sets the chasing the deer. He's yelling and screaming at 0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:51.320 the um dog and has a shot collar on it, 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:56.200 but then checks his pockets, realizes that he left the 0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:01.719 controller in the truck. The deer jumps in the pond 0:50:02.920 --> 0:50:05.560 and start swimming. The dog is on top of it, 0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:11.319 fighting the deer, well killing the deer. But here's where 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:13.439 the story gets weird. All of a sudden, the deer 0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:20.680 vanishes vanishes, and they're thinking, well, how could that be, Like, 0:50:20.719 --> 0:50:22.880 how does a deer like a deer can't sink or 0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:24.920 you know, they don't they seem to float kind of, 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:29.240 they float near the surface. Um, they get so curious 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:33.480 about his body, strips down, jumps in and swims down 0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:37.680 and dives down and realizes this pond is fifteen feet 0:50:37.719 --> 0:50:41.240 deep and you can't see squat down in there. Another 0:50:41.320 --> 0:50:43.200 guy jumps in and he these guys are free that 0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.439 he's a free diver. Another guy strips down and jumps 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:47.399 in there and it's so cold he can't figure anything out. 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:56.360 Comes back later with a scuba tank. They're divers, Abaloni 0:50:56.440 --> 0:50:59.680 divers and whatnot. Comes back later to scuba tank, goes 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:03.320 down the bottom and there's the deer lion dead on 0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:08.200 the bottom of the pond. Uh ship, So they just 0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:10.879 had to know, because they didn't believe that the deer, 0:51:11.080 --> 0:51:15.040 like how it just just sunk so to pull backstraps 0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:17.080 out of it. Yeah, I was gonna say it be 0:51:18.080 --> 0:51:20.840 well preserved down there. And he wants to know, what 0:51:20.960 --> 0:51:22.960 would you do if your dog drowned a deer on 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:28.080 your neighbor's farm Pondum, I don't know. I feel like 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:30.600 I would think that it was if I drowned a 0:51:30.640 --> 0:51:33.120 deer in my neighbor's farm pond, I would have a conversation. 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:35.600 I would have to have a conversation with the game warden. Yeah, 0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:41.000 but I'm guessing I don't know if if you remember 0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:42.719 a friend of mine, I don't wanna, you know, I 0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:45.960 don't want to. She's anguish enough about this. But a 0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:47.719 friend of mine was walking her dog on a very 0:51:47.760 --> 0:51:49.600 popular how you can Trail? Her dog killed the deer 0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:55.239 killed the pont very popular dog h I can trail? 0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:59.640 She was no reason they should all be on leash. 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:05.880 She was devastated. Did it happen? But I don't know 0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:11.400 what your obligations are. Yeah, I kind of want to 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:14.160 be like, I don't know. It's like the dog man, Well, 0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:16.160 for sure, but again, you're supposed to have your dog 0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:19.560 under control, and they're certainly not allowed to harass while life. 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:24.920 And I think the killing wildlife constitutes harassment. Um so 0:52:25.040 --> 0:52:28.040 I think technically, yeah, you're probably you and your dog. 0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:31.160 You're responsible for your dogs, so you're in trouble for that. 0:52:32.000 --> 0:52:35.400 I would think, I mean, I'm no game warden. I 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:40.480 would think that they would say, cal, I'm guessing this 0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:42.880 is one time thing for snort. You're not gonna let 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:46.719 that happen anymore, and if it does, then you're gonna 0:52:46.760 --> 0:52:49.399 get a ticket. Yeah. I would imagine that there's gotta 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:54.640 be some sort of harassment well you know, animal whatever. 0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:58.719 But I mean there's gotta be I mean, I know 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:02.120 in the state of Montana it's it is legal to 0:53:02.239 --> 0:53:10.360 shoot ah dogs chasing deer. So there's gotta be some 0:53:10.719 --> 0:53:14.120 some way to get a ticket for it too. Do 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:17.799 snapping turtles bite underwater? We're talking about that because it's 0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:19.600 like a it's a kind of like I grew up 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:23.880 in snamp and turtle country, as many people do, and 0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:26.920 we mess with snapping turtles a lot and trapped for 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:31.719 him and stuff, and it was it was said that, uh, 0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:35.279 they won't bite you underwater, and we my dad had 0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:37.520 a very good friend of alcohole, and he would look 0:53:37.560 --> 0:53:43.840 for snapping turtles by feeling blind under undercut banks, just 0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:46.560 feeling his hands till he felt the shell. Then he'd 0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:48.040 feel the shell and you could, you know how they 0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:50.480 have the points on the back of the shell. He 0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:52.920 would find he'd feel the shell and could tell by 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:59.360 the points on it what way the turtles facing. And 0:53:59.440 --> 0:54:01.640 then he'd entify the back and he just reached under 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:03.640 and grabbed the tail, and he said that turtles lay 0:54:03.680 --> 0:54:07.319 there the whole time. He'd get the tail and jack 0:54:07.400 --> 0:54:12.040 turtle back out. Uh never got bet No, I'll tell 0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:17.439 you a story, quick quick interjection. Um, I was checking 0:54:17.480 --> 0:54:22.360 my turtle traps one time and there was a turtle 0:54:22.480 --> 0:54:28.360 that the biggest snap turtle ever caught was had gotten 0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:31.880 the door of the trap messed up and couldn't get in, 0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:35.120 but it was trying so hard to get like poking around, 0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:37.399 and somehow he had like I used to make him 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:40.000 out of like, uh, you know that hog wire with 0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:46.200 the rectangular yeah, and which is stout stuff. Yeah, And 0:54:46.280 --> 0:54:49.200 he had I don't know him or another turtle head. 0:54:49.239 --> 0:54:51.600 Somehow I got the door jacked up. Now that they 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:53.239 know where the door is. They're just going everywhere and 0:54:53.239 --> 0:54:55.360 eventually it's a funnel and eventually poked their way in 0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:57.280 and they get caught. But he had gotten it jacked 0:54:57.360 --> 0:54:59.400 up where he couldn't get into it. The door was disabled. 0:55:00.239 --> 0:55:04.560 So I see the turtle the trap kind of like bouncing, shaking. 0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:08.799 It's is huge turtle. He was so intent on getting 0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:10.640 to the bait that I was able to paddle up 0:55:10.640 --> 0:55:13.600 in a canoe and grabbed him by the tail. And 0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:16.040 this turtle was so big. I'm not joking. I was 0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:19.319 in high school. Um, I could not get him into 0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:22.120 my canoe, try as I might, And I had the 0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:24.920 hole that's something bit by the tail with kind of 0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.000 the tail over the gun of the canoe and one 0:55:27.120 --> 0:55:31.759 handed paddle myself, one handed paddle myself to the bank, 0:55:32.360 --> 0:55:34.120 climb out and dragged that thing up and get the 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:36.440 back of the truck. And I brought it to another 0:55:36.480 --> 0:55:38.400 commercial turtle guy and he said that was the biggest 0:55:38.440 --> 0:55:41.319 turtle he'd ever seen, the biggest snap turtle you'd ever seen? Nice, 0:55:41.920 --> 0:55:46.359 what did you weigh it? I didn't, I remember him saying, 0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:48.759 I don't want to say because it sounds ridiculous, But 0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:50.560 he bought it. He was a commercial guy and he 0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:55.200 bought the turtle from me. So, uh, what's funny about this? 0:55:55.320 --> 0:55:57.759 This person that rowed in, who's a fisheries there there, 0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:02.919 they're a fisheries technician um in North Carolina and they're 0:56:02.960 --> 0:56:05.480 doing the survey works for freshwater muscles. He says, a 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:07.600 lot of times you're able to do your survey work visually, 0:56:08.800 --> 0:56:10.880 but sometimes you need to do it by feel or 0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:14.360 you're poking around. And he brings up an interesting observation 0:56:14.480 --> 0:56:16.399 that that's like I hadn't really thought about his true 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:18.880 Like he talks about how a lot of clothes, clothing 0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:24.640 right winds up in streams, and he describes that look 0:56:24.719 --> 0:56:26.080 that it gets, you know what he when it gets 0:56:26.160 --> 0:56:29.400 full of sand, like any kind of fabric and stuff 0:56:29.440 --> 0:56:30.960 like land at the bottom of the stream. It gets 0:56:31.000 --> 0:56:36.320 full of sand. He said he has twice felt or 0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:40.400 poked what he thought was a clothing item, but it 0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:42.960 was that weird like you know that the snappers get 0:56:43.040 --> 0:56:45.800 that kind of moss that grows on him and it 0:56:45.840 --> 0:56:48.759 gets like that sandy feeling. And he said, you can 0:56:48.800 --> 0:56:51.040 do all manner. When he finds a turtle doing his 0:56:51.120 --> 0:56:53.719 survey work and that turtle thinks it's hidden. He said, 0:56:53.760 --> 0:56:56.120 you can do all manner of manipulation on that turtle, 0:56:57.160 --> 0:56:58.520 and a lot of times it's hard to get him 0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:01.680 to do anything. And when you get him do anything, 0:57:01.760 --> 0:57:03.560 they want to get away. He says, the minute you 0:57:03.640 --> 0:57:06.000 get that turtle out of the water, he's ready to fight. 0:57:07.200 --> 0:57:09.439 But he said, underwater fighting is not on his mind. 0:57:11.800 --> 0:57:14.480 He's like, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna hide, I'm 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:16.800 gonna get away. But you get them up out of 0:57:16.840 --> 0:57:19.680 the water and he's like, now I'm fighting. It's just 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:23.680 so bizarre to me. The animal is designed to bite 0:57:23.720 --> 0:57:30.240 it under water, but just apparently not defensively. But when 0:57:30.280 --> 0:57:32.280 we talked about this before, I brought another thing that 0:57:32.320 --> 0:57:34.280 happened turtle trap is I had a turtle in the 0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:39.440 trap having a vicious battle with a turtle out of 0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:43.080 the trap, and they were definitely biting each other under water. 0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:50.480 So like territoriality, sure, eating, sure, But apparently when you're 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:54.600 somebody gently caressing your carapace and feeling your points is 0:57:54.640 --> 0:57:59.000 not fighting. That's not worth fighting. They mean fighting words 0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:03.320 in the turn a World. Okay, with Fosburgh waiting patiently, 0:58:03.440 --> 0:58:05.200 what we're gonna do is one more one more thing 0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:06.680 to touch off on. We've talked about this too many 0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:10.760 times now. This is probably probably the last corneal dermoid thing. 0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:15.000 The corner. The corneal dermoid fixation began when some people 0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:19.320 started sending in pictures of Harry eyeballs Harry eyeball disease. 0:58:19.400 --> 0:58:21.880 It all happened where a buck got a Harry eyeball disease. 0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:28.520 Each hair, each eyeball turns into hair, put it on Instagram, 0:58:28.560 --> 0:58:30.480 and a guy sent into Kyle Olk. He killed with 0:58:30.600 --> 0:58:33.360 like big, long, like three inch hairs growing out of 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:36.440 its eyes. The buck that got the corneal dermo dermoids 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:38.880 eventually went blind and they had to euthanize it like 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:41.680 a blindeer run around hair his eyeballs full of hair. 0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:44.680 A lot of guys are written in about this. Guy 0:58:44.720 --> 0:58:48.600 wrote in he had a golden retriever has corneal dermoids. 0:58:50.080 --> 0:58:51.920 He thought, for sure the doctor the dog would be like, 0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:54.200 you know, couldn't see, he had a feeling, couldn't seed 0:58:54.240 --> 0:58:56.680 and know what to do. Then you realized that they 0:58:56.680 --> 0:58:59.320 could track an airplane in the sky, and that's the 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:01.400 first thing to eat him off. That despite it having 0:59:01.440 --> 0:59:06.000 these messed up eyes. Was still pick off, you know, well, 0:59:06.040 --> 0:59:10.760 so visually aware of what's going on. But this guy 0:59:10.800 --> 0:59:15.000 gets into the human element of it, and uh. The 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:19.920 guy wrote in that there's a wildlife and fisheries guy 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:24.320 at Clemson University, a student there. He has corneille dermoid's 0:59:24.360 --> 0:59:28.760 in his eye. You're born with it. His aren't harry, 0:59:28.800 --> 0:59:30.840 but they're white. He says he can still see good 0:59:30.920 --> 0:59:35.960 enough to hunt. He's especially sensitive delight. He was surprised 0:59:36.000 --> 0:59:38.120 to hear that affects deer. I was surprised to hear 0:59:38.160 --> 0:59:41.440 that affects folks. This other guy wrote in he had 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.560 two boys and they're twins, and he said, the only 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:46.400 way you could tell these two boys apart is one 0:59:46.440 --> 0:59:51.240 had a real point. He knows. They eventually bring him in. 0:59:51.560 --> 0:59:54.240 I don't know what happened they bring him in. He 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:57.000 had a point, he knows because he had nase. He 0:59:57.080 --> 1:00:01.600 had a nasal dermoid, rec a fairly extensive surgery to 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:03.800 remove it. It was in the tip of his nose, 1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:09.360 traveled up his naval cavity into his skull, real close 1:00:09.440 --> 1:00:14.320 to his brain. They removed this whole thing, and the 1:00:14.400 --> 1:00:17.440 surgeon said it was shaped like a barbell from having 1:00:17.520 --> 1:00:20.680 traveled up the nasal cavity, a bunch of hair growing 1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:28.200 out of it. Jeez, born with it. The surgeon said. 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:34.520 They sometimes even have teeth mm hmm. And I remember, man, 1:00:34.720 --> 1:00:37.800 my brother had a girlfriend. Remember and I never really 1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:40.120 thought about this, he had a girlfriend. She was saying 1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:41.760 that they one time I had to have a surgery 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:43.880 and they pulled out a little ball out of her. 1:00:43.920 --> 1:00:51.440 They head teeth on it. Yep. Yeah, never looked at 1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:54.960 her the same way again, nothing against it. God bless her, 1:00:55.840 --> 1:00:59.200 a little ball full of teeth inside of her. I 1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:03.400 really out your The guy had identical twins and the 1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:05.680 only way you could tell one from the other was 1:01:05.880 --> 1:01:12.200 the Harry eyeballs. I God, that's that's yeah. So they're 1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:15.600 pretty easy to tell apart. Then all right with Fosberg 1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:19.000 from TRC pe wit talk us through, give us like 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:23.400 an update, d C update. Uh, Well, we're about a 1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:26.240 hundred days into a new administration. Which that's like a 1:01:26.320 --> 1:01:29.560 big that's like a big, big milestone. That's a milestone. 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:31.560 Do you know where that comes from? I don't understand 1:01:31.560 --> 1:01:34.160 how that came to be a milestone. Just a nice 1:01:34.240 --> 1:01:36.800 round number. Yeah, I think right now, it's a round 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:40.000 number as something has been used for many many, you know, 1:01:40.080 --> 1:01:42.400 presidencies in a row to sort of gauge initial for 1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:45.360 at step in priorities. So I think, you know it's 1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:47.520 but I don't know where it came from originally. Do 1:01:47.560 --> 1:01:50.160 you feel that a hundred days is fair just from 1:01:50.200 --> 1:01:52.880 your observations of home, because I mean it's it's really 1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:55.000 symbolism at this point. Is you know what you see 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:58.120 what the administration's top priorities are. You will see the 1:01:58.200 --> 1:02:01.160 general reaction that that gets from the general public as 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:04.240 well as from Congress. Uh, you know in Congress, you 1:02:04.280 --> 1:02:06.240 know again you have the top things tend to be 1:02:06.480 --> 1:02:09.080 the first things they deal with, the most important, the 1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:12.160 most visible, the highest priorities for whatever parties in power. 1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:14.960 So I think it's you know, the way we tend 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:17.320 to look at it with administration is first hundred days, 1:02:17.560 --> 1:02:20.520 first year, and then four years, and you know, you 1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:22.560 can sort of break down any sort of set of 1:02:22.600 --> 1:02:25.760 priorities in those three buckets. And that's when we we 1:02:25.960 --> 1:02:29.200 did transition plans for both Biden as well as Trump too, 1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:32.720 and we laid out our priorities and all in those 1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:37.200 three sets when you do transition plans. I remember seeing 1:02:37.240 --> 1:02:40.120 transition plans because you have to draw up right, It's 1:02:40.120 --> 1:02:42.160 like when the Super Bowl, Right, they make T shirts 1:02:42.200 --> 1:02:46.080 for each win. Um, you have to drop up transition obviously, 1:02:46.120 --> 1:02:48.400 to be prepared no matter what's gonna happen. Yeah, we 1:02:48.520 --> 1:02:50.640 got them to the campaigns, you know, well before the 1:02:50.680 --> 1:02:52.800 election too. Or you send it to the camp Yeah, 1:02:52.800 --> 1:02:54.920 we send them both, send them to the campaigns to 1:02:55.000 --> 1:02:58.000 really lay out what we think our community's priorities are. 1:02:58.600 --> 1:03:01.959 But how different are the two letters. Oh, they're pretty 1:03:02.000 --> 1:03:04.120 different because you know, we're well, I mean a lot 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:06.840 of its phraseology. I mean, we knew, for example, it 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:08.480 was gonna be Trump to we weren't gonna lead with 1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:11.520 climate change. You know, we would talk about you know variety. 1:03:11.560 --> 1:03:13.760 We still talk about farm bill programs. We would talk 1:03:13.800 --> 1:03:17.400 about things that directly affect climate, but we certainly changed 1:03:17.400 --> 1:03:20.000 the way we phrase that. And we also think about 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:22.360 you know, things like you know, the meat and potato, wildlife. 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:25.680 Stuff like migration corridors would bubble up to like number 1:03:25.720 --> 1:03:28.440 one because you know, they started it. They have pride 1:03:28.440 --> 1:03:30.440 of ownership in it. You know, they can do things 1:03:30.520 --> 1:03:33.920 to expand it. So it's you know, I think, you know, 1:03:34.000 --> 1:03:36.760 and then you know there are certain things were just 1:03:36.920 --> 1:03:39.600 off the table, you know, with for example, the Trump too, 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:41.320 that we knew it weren't going to be worth pushing for, 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:43.120 and why I hit our heads against the wall about it. 1:03:43.600 --> 1:03:45.400 So we're gonna do things that we think we can achieve, 1:03:46.360 --> 1:03:48.360 and you know, so it was different, and we have 1:03:48.560 --> 1:03:53.200 this sort of a second term of continuing administration, it's 1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:55.760 not going to be as long. So for example, I 1:03:55.800 --> 1:03:57.720 think when we sent to the Trump team was like 1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:01.040 eighty pages or sixty page ages and the one that 1:04:01.080 --> 1:04:03.800 went to the Biden team was probably an additional thirty 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:05.480 or forty page because you already had a bunch of 1:04:05.560 --> 1:04:08.040 You've already been laid for four years with the groundwork 1:04:08.120 --> 1:04:11.400 with dexistration. Yeah, so I want to get to where 1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:12.520 we're at now, but I want to talk a little 1:04:12.520 --> 1:04:14.800 bit about where we uh, a little bit about where 1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:17.920 we'd been. You mentioned that the Trump administration had a 1:04:17.960 --> 1:04:21.600 lot of ownership over the migration corridor, and Bernhardt was 1:04:21.800 --> 1:04:25.120 heavily and that actually came out Secretary Interior was very heavily, 1:04:25.160 --> 1:04:27.360 and that came out with Zincio was still you know, 1:04:27.560 --> 1:04:30.960 Secretary that was first dropped Secretary Order three three six two, 1:04:31.800 --> 1:04:34.880 which basically directed the Western states to identify their top 1:04:35.000 --> 1:04:39.240 three big game migration corridors and it limited it to elk, mule, deer, 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:43.000 and pronghorn and uh then you know it directed the 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:46.680 federal agencies to coordinate with the states to conserve those areas. 1:04:47.160 --> 1:04:48.680 I mean, it was a really good idea. They put 1:04:48.760 --> 1:04:51.240 some money behind it, National Fisher Wildie Foundation came in 1:04:51.320 --> 1:04:53.200 with some money for it, and it's the kind of 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:55.400 thing that we wanted to make sure if it wasn't, 1:04:55.560 --> 1:04:58.160 you know, Trump, if Biden got elected, that they didn't 1:04:58.160 --> 1:05:01.160 immediately come in and just say, you know, Trump did, 1:05:01.200 --> 1:05:03.320 this must be But that's what that's what I'm wondering about. 1:05:03.680 --> 1:05:05.600 That's what I was gonna add that that exact question, 1:05:06.720 --> 1:05:08.520 are you do you do a lot of work to 1:05:08.600 --> 1:05:10.439 try to hand things off and be like, no matter 1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:14.880 how you feel about your predecessor, yeah, this was this 1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:17.800 is the right thing here. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean I 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:20.720 think we would define success not by how far the 1:05:20.760 --> 1:05:23.920 pendulum swings each time, but by things are actually durable 1:05:24.080 --> 1:05:28.400 that you know, withstand changes in political wins. And I 1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:31.480 think migration corridors is you know, a classic example of that. 1:05:31.960 --> 1:05:33.640 You know, it makes sense on a number of different 1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:35.600 levels from you know, if you're a big game hunter, 1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:38.880 which was obviously a priority of the Trump administration, you know, 1:05:39.080 --> 1:05:42.160 something that's really important. If you're in favor of biodiversity 1:05:42.600 --> 1:05:45.560 and letting animals adapt to a change in climate, you've 1:05:45.560 --> 1:05:47.920 got to be supportive of this, you know. So it's 1:05:47.920 --> 1:05:50.000 again depends on how you look at it, but it's 1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:52.760 something that should not be a partisan improven it hasn't been. 1:05:52.800 --> 1:05:56.160 I mean Deb Holland and her confirmation hearings for Secretary 1:05:56.200 --> 1:05:59.480 of the Interior talked about how important it was. So 1:06:00.040 --> 1:06:02.120 I think that we've succeeded in that just making it 1:06:02.200 --> 1:06:04.160 sure that people didn't think it was a political issue, 1:06:04.520 --> 1:06:07.840 but it made sense regardless of administration. And there were 1:06:07.880 --> 1:06:09.760 certain things that Trump guys wanted to do they never 1:06:09.840 --> 1:06:12.840 got to do. They proposed adding wild sheep and moose 1:06:12.920 --> 1:06:14.680 to that and then got a bunch of blowback from 1:06:14.720 --> 1:06:18.439 agricultural producers, so took that off the table. Yeah, we'd 1:06:18.480 --> 1:06:21.440 love to see the order expanded to that. We'd like 1:06:21.520 --> 1:06:23.200 to see more money you know that could go to 1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:26.320 for example, private landowners who are really an important part 1:06:26.400 --> 1:06:29.280 of preserving migration corridors. How do you get them to 1:06:29.520 --> 1:06:32.320 make it in their interest as opposed to them being 1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:34.960 the burden of these animals that go through their property. 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:37.880 For them to come in and in retrofit fences to 1:06:38.680 --> 1:06:41.080 you know, compensate them for the elk that come through 1:06:41.160 --> 1:06:43.200 and eat their crops, you know, things like that, but 1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:46.880 make them an important part of the solution. So I 1:06:46.960 --> 1:06:48.880 think that Trump guys, you know, it was a great idea, 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:51.160 but they had just really gotten started on this and 1:06:51.240 --> 1:06:54.680 ideally it gets expanded and works even better, you know 1:06:54.800 --> 1:06:57.680 now that we're in the next four years. So with 1:06:57.800 --> 1:07:02.240 the first hundred days, uh about up or up? What? 1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:05.960 What's your what are your impressions? Is it just completely 1:07:06.040 --> 1:07:08.520 new set of priorities and you've got to kind of 1:07:08.640 --> 1:07:10.040 go in a different direction if you want to get 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:12.400 anything done. Yeah, you know, I think that's it's not 1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:15.400 completely new set of priorities in some areas, and that's 1:07:15.440 --> 1:07:18.480 a good example of the corridors. But I think it's 1:07:18.600 --> 1:07:20.280 you know, a lot of the emphasis is going to 1:07:20.320 --> 1:07:22.440 be changed and as supposed to be making that scary, 1:07:22.520 --> 1:07:26.440 we want to make that an opportunity for example climate. Uh, 1:07:26.600 --> 1:07:28.680 you know, we have we've been working in the last 1:07:28.800 --> 1:07:32.000 couple of years to get our community and we've had 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.920 forty two different groups and a letter to Congress saying, Congress, 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:38.240 you need to engage in climate and part of the 1:07:38.280 --> 1:07:41.480 solution needs to be land and water side of it. Sequestration, 1:07:41.640 --> 1:07:46.000 resilience adaptation, which is all important for a climate in 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:48.600 terms of sucking carbon out of the air, making our 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:52.000 coastal communities more resilient, cleaning water, but it's also great 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:57.320 for fishing, wildlife, and explain that. So the way we 1:07:57.480 --> 1:08:00.240 work as we're a partnership of we have sixty normal 1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:04.360 partners partners within the umbrella of TRSP, the Theatore Roosevelt 1:08:04.360 --> 1:08:08.400 Conservation Partnership, and you know, we're a coalition that willing, 1:08:08.800 --> 1:08:11.120 you know, so we don't force anybody to take a 1:08:11.160 --> 1:08:12.960 position on anything, but we lay out what we think 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:16.360 makes some sense. And uh, we had about two years 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:19.160 of working on climate and we put together this five 1:08:19.200 --> 1:08:21.559 page statement or six page statement that went to Congress 1:08:22.160 --> 1:08:24.640 that laid out our principles. We you know, created a 1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:26.920 website so the folks everyone can understand what it is 1:08:27.000 --> 1:08:30.120 we want and then you know, we asked groups to 1:08:30.640 --> 1:08:33.839 join on this, and forty one groups within the TRSP 1:08:33.960 --> 1:08:37.000 partnership joined on that letter that went to Congress and 1:08:37.120 --> 1:08:40.280 have their names and logos on the website which people 1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:43.679 can see at TRSP dot org. When you're doing something 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:45.360 like that, I know we're straining a little bit from 1:08:45.400 --> 1:08:48.880 what we're talking about. When you're putting that together, are 1:08:48.960 --> 1:08:52.120 you finding that there are people who, uh, don't get 1:08:52.200 --> 1:08:54.400 back to you or they say like, don't put my 1:08:54.479 --> 1:08:57.479 name on that. There was there were some people that 1:08:57.640 --> 1:09:01.280 just you know, they didn't want to have discussion, and 1:09:01.479 --> 1:09:03.479 you know it just weren't really engaged a lot of 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:07.320 others that they coming up from a very particular viewpoint. 1:09:07.840 --> 1:09:10.360 You know, if you're Pheasists forever, they really want to 1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:13.559 see this is a vehicle to expand the conservation reserve program. 1:09:14.200 --> 1:09:16.320 If you're Duck's Unlimited, you're gonna want to see it 1:09:16.439 --> 1:09:19.879 as a way to preserve more wellands, restore or walans. 1:09:20.360 --> 1:09:22.479 So every group comes to it with their own lens, 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:24.479 and so the danger of any one of these is 1:09:24.600 --> 1:09:28.920 that becomes this unwieldy beast because every single priority is 1:09:28.920 --> 1:09:31.120 put in there, and the fact that it's only five 1:09:31.160 --> 1:09:32.960 and a half pages or whatever it was it went in. 1:09:33.160 --> 1:09:35.920 It was actually a triumph because we kept that into 1:09:36.040 --> 1:09:40.240 certain key areas and you know, I think we accommodated concerns. 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:42.400 You know, any of the groups that were there. Now, 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:44.479 other groups like you know, d you didn't sign it, 1:09:44.640 --> 1:09:47.160 but they they're doing their own. One Boone and Crockett 1:09:47.160 --> 1:09:49.040 didn't sign it, but they did their own as well. 1:09:49.160 --> 1:09:52.080 That it was. Honestly, it's stronger than the one we have, 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:56.040 you know, so Nature Conservancy is a formal partner. They 1:09:56.120 --> 1:09:59.720 did their own. So the forty one signed with us, 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:02.320 sent that letter to Congress. Those are the folks that 1:10:02.400 --> 1:10:05.240 just collaborate on this effort. It's not a full snapshot 1:10:05.360 --> 1:10:07.479 of everybody that's dealing with climate. And that doesn't mean 1:10:07.520 --> 1:10:09.559 that a third of those groups aren't interested. They might 1:10:09.600 --> 1:10:12.160 have been there. They have their own because they're handling 1:10:12.520 --> 1:10:14.920 for themselves. Yeah, so or they're just you know, they 1:10:14.960 --> 1:10:17.200 don't really see that in a wheelhouse like you know, 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:19.679 a f l c i O is a formal partner 1:10:19.720 --> 1:10:22.200 of ours. You know, they're they're dealing with climate in 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:24.240 a whole bunch of different ways. You know that, So 1:10:24.400 --> 1:10:26.120 this isn't something they were going to sign on too. 1:10:27.560 --> 1:10:30.240 But in terms of overall impressions of the first hundred days, 1:10:30.240 --> 1:10:32.600 I think, yeah, I think we're optimistic. I think that 1:10:32.760 --> 1:10:35.320 they have you know, pretty good people put in. I 1:10:35.400 --> 1:10:37.679 look it over at Partner of Agriculture, tom Ville Sack, 1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:40.599 you know, obviously it was Secretary of the Interior before 1:10:40.800 --> 1:10:44.320 Governor of Iowa, Senator from Iowa, you know, knows this 1:10:44.400 --> 1:10:48.040 stuff really well. He brought in Robert Bonnie to oversee 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:52.240 you know, basically the Farm Service Agency RCS as well 1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:55.960 as the Forest Service. Robert is an old hand on this. 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:59.759 He was on our board for a while, hardcore hunter fisherman, 1:11:00.520 --> 1:11:02.680 and you know, very pragmatic about how do we get 1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:05.040 these farm bill programs working better than they have. You know, 1:11:05.120 --> 1:11:07.920 we've lost a ton of acres out of c RP 1:11:08.280 --> 1:11:11.599 in the last four years just because you know, Sonny 1:11:11.680 --> 1:11:14.599 Perdu and the Trumpet Partner Agriculture, it wasn't a priority. 1:11:14.960 --> 1:11:17.600 They'd rather just sort of send people checks, you know, 1:11:17.680 --> 1:11:21.120 in response to the terrify fight with China, then actually 1:11:21.120 --> 1:11:24.000 ask them to do something with that money. Whereas you know, 1:11:24.080 --> 1:11:26.160 we want to see, you know, instead of just sending 1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:30.439 thirty billion dollars out to agricultural producers just to make 1:11:30.479 --> 1:11:33.680 them hold in a tough economic time. You know, I 1:11:33.800 --> 1:11:36.479 think things like Conservation Reserve program where they actually were 1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:39.479 doing something. They're setting aside marginal lands, they're improving it 1:11:39.560 --> 1:11:42.080 for a wild life, for water quality, and those are 1:11:42.120 --> 1:11:43.760 the things I think we think make a ton of sense. 1:11:43.800 --> 1:11:45.519 And I think we're gonna you know, the folks that 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.680 Department Agriculture now will agree. So we already know that 1:11:48.800 --> 1:11:51.400 plans are underway to amend the current sign up for 1:11:51.479 --> 1:11:55.320 c RP to make it more lucrative. So you think 1:11:55.360 --> 1:11:58.880 that'll go down, that'll go down. We'll see, we'll see more, 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:03.120 you know, a CRP program that makes more sense for farmers. Yeah, 1:12:03.120 --> 1:12:04.880 and then I think, you know, Robert and the team 1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:06.880 that the USDA are working on this right now, we 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:08.439 don't know exactly what's going to look like, but they 1:12:08.479 --> 1:12:11.200 have recognized they have a real problem and they're expecting 1:12:11.240 --> 1:12:14.400 another If they don't do something, another to three million 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:17.560 acros will move out of the program this year, so 1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:22.000 they have to do something. My first experience with was CRP, 1:12:22.240 --> 1:12:27.240 like really understanding what it what it is, was watching 1:12:27.800 --> 1:12:31.600 um the end of those first round rounds of contracts 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:35.680 in in my like hunting lifetime and watching all this 1:12:36.760 --> 1:12:41.519 prairie and sagebrush get torn up in eastern Montana and 1:12:41.720 --> 1:12:47.400 seeing an immediate effect on antelope specifically, and just going 1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:52.719 from like more antelope and and truly like fewer hunters 1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:57.519 because people were so dispersed across eastern Montana. Um, it 1:12:57.680 --> 1:13:00.200 was like the good old days of antelope by far 1:13:00.280 --> 1:13:02.799 and away in it and it just man, it tanked 1:13:02.840 --> 1:13:05.760 and you could just see it. Yeah. Yeah, And this 1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:09.519 is the same story in Dakota's a pheasant. Uh, you know, 1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:12.560 duck populations ride different places. So I mean this c 1:13:12.680 --> 1:13:15.240 RP is a program that benefits you know, sportsmen in 1:13:15.240 --> 1:13:18.080 a variety of different ways. But I mean, you know, 1:13:18.200 --> 1:13:20.160 we see it as you know, if you want to 1:13:20.200 --> 1:13:21.720 deal with climate, and you want to if you think 1:13:21.760 --> 1:13:24.360 about climate and the overall solution to climate, you can 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:27.680 stop emitting today. But to get ahead, you're gonna have 1:13:27.800 --> 1:13:29.519 to suck a bunch of carbon out of the atmosphere. 1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:31.240 In the best way to do that is through natural 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:36.120 mechanisms like forests, and you know you're putting in cover 1:13:36.240 --> 1:13:38.960 crops instead of having bare ground over the winter. You 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:41.000 have things like that that are if you go to 1:13:41.120 --> 1:13:44.439 eastern shore of Maryland cover crops, everybody doesn't. You go 1:13:44.560 --> 1:13:47.760 to Iowa, nobody doesn't. And so we just need to 1:13:47.800 --> 1:13:50.839 give create some incentives. It's not bad for the producers, 1:13:50.920 --> 1:13:52.479 it's just not the way they've been doing things. So 1:13:52.600 --> 1:13:54.439 given a cent of to do that sort of work, 1:13:55.280 --> 1:13:58.160 which is gonna suck out a certain amount of carbon 1:13:58.400 --> 1:14:01.160 overall about it, you know, they're saying about of the solution, 1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:04.360 are these natural things that naturally suck carbon out of 1:14:04.360 --> 1:14:06.640 the atmosphere. You know, we talk a lot about, you know, 1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:07.920 sort of the poor state of a lot of the 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:11.280 national forests in the National Forest System that haven't been 1:14:11.360 --> 1:14:15.160 logged at our monoculture, their beetle infested, they're waiting to 1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:18.200 blow up and you know burn. And if we you know, 1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:20.200 if you're serious about deal a climate, you're gonna go 1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:22.160 in there and you're gonna do some selective harvest. You're 1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:24.320 gonna do some areas. You're gonna restore some of those 1:14:24.360 --> 1:14:26.880 areas that are pretty degraded now. And that's going to 1:14:26.960 --> 1:14:30.920 help wildlife and sportsmen because you'll start developing that mosaic 1:14:31.000 --> 1:14:34.240 of habitats that you really want. I mean, we have roadless, 1:14:34.280 --> 1:14:36.200 we have wilderness, but we also want to have areas 1:14:36.240 --> 1:14:39.519 that are actively managed. And you know that is far better, 1:14:40.280 --> 1:14:43.320 you know, than you know, a stagnant forest. I was 1:14:43.439 --> 1:14:45.760 with a group of other you know, conservation you know, 1:14:45.880 --> 1:14:48.880 CEO S and Louisiana, talking with a bunch of the 1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:53.760 private timberland folks and Dave Tenny, who runs the National 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:59.240 Association of Forest Owners. You know, later statistic that managed forests, 1:14:59.560 --> 1:15:03.599 you know, private managed forests are seven times take out 1:15:03.680 --> 1:15:07.760 seven times more carbon than their counterparts on the national force. 1:15:09.320 --> 1:15:11.720 And uh and I would argue too that you know, 1:15:11.800 --> 1:15:14.519 they're probably better for if you want that mosaic of 1:15:14.600 --> 1:15:19.000 habitats and some oral accessional force, it's better for wildlife too. Now, 1:15:19.280 --> 1:15:21.320 nobody wants to return to the old days of spotted 1:15:21.360 --> 1:15:24.760 elves and clear cuts and salmon watersheds and all the rest. 1:15:25.320 --> 1:15:27.360 But there's a happy median in there some place. Well 1:15:27.479 --> 1:15:30.120 for sure. You know, a friend of mine in the 1:15:30.320 --> 1:15:34.679 Forest Service, he'd uh had a stretch of like seven 1:15:34.800 --> 1:15:39.200 years attempting to do a prescribe prescribe burning an area, 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:43.080 you know, and it just like through you know, you 1:15:43.160 --> 1:15:46.200 gotta meet a lot of criteria to get a burn going. 1:15:46.920 --> 1:15:50.040 And um, it's even more more strict in the on 1:15:50.120 --> 1:15:52.920 the government side of things. So yeah, and it's just 1:15:53.080 --> 1:15:55.120 there's still a cottage industry out there are folks who 1:15:55.200 --> 1:15:59.000 just litigate any active management on national force. And you 1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:01.080 know that's we're gonna have to deal with that. We're 1:16:01.080 --> 1:16:04.000 gonna have to make a little bit easier to actually 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:07.160 cut word to do prescribe burns. And obviously if you 1:16:07.200 --> 1:16:11.200 do a small prescribe burn, you're heading off that catastrophic 1:16:11.280 --> 1:16:13.920 burn that we see in California in other places. And 1:16:14.400 --> 1:16:16.559 this summer is gonna be bad, I mean moisture levels 1:16:16.560 --> 1:16:19.800 across the wester allowsy. So you know, we need to 1:16:19.840 --> 1:16:22.759 get on top of this. And Robert Bonnie at USCA 1:16:22.880 --> 1:16:27.920 understands that. And when we fix the fire funding fiasco 1:16:28.000 --> 1:16:31.840 at the Forest Service, when until I guess about five 1:16:31.960 --> 1:16:34.920 years ago, every time you know, there was a catastrophic 1:16:35.000 --> 1:16:38.040 wildfire fighting that came out of the forests versus core budget, 1:16:38.560 --> 1:16:41.280 Congress changed that to create an emergency account like we 1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:45.920 do for all other natural disasters tornadoes, hurricanes, and you know, 1:16:46.040 --> 1:16:48.439 because you know that change has been made it gives 1:16:48.520 --> 1:16:51.920 the Forest Service about a half million, half billion dollars 1:16:52.080 --> 1:16:54.760 annually in additional revenue is to actually go and do 1:16:54.880 --> 1:17:01.519 habitat management for wildlife, for fire prevention, to remove invasive ecs. So, 1:17:01.840 --> 1:17:03.559 you know, part of the challenge that Robert is gonna 1:17:03.560 --> 1:17:06.200 be facing now at U. S t A Is getting 1:17:06.280 --> 1:17:08.559 that up to speed, getting that money on the ground, 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:11.760 which is that it sounds like a big number, but 1:17:12.040 --> 1:17:14.880 is it that that's like they can do a lot 1:17:14.960 --> 1:17:16.679 with that. They can do a lot with that. Yeah, 1:17:17.080 --> 1:17:19.080 and there's and it's not that you know, they know 1:17:19.120 --> 1:17:21.320 it all goes out to commercial sale. I mean, the 1:17:21.400 --> 1:17:24.599 Turkey Federation and you know Mule Deer Foundation have doing 1:17:24.760 --> 1:17:28.000 stewardship contracting where they actually go in and do the work. 1:17:28.320 --> 1:17:30.240 You know, they got some money to do it, but 1:17:30.560 --> 1:17:33.439 it's not the forester is doing this stuff. So you know, 1:17:33.560 --> 1:17:37.479 Turkey Federation has done remarkable projects around the country using 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:41.920 the Stewardship Contracting authority to go in and improve habitat. Yeah. 1:17:42.040 --> 1:17:43.920 So I think there are different models of how you 1:17:43.960 --> 1:17:46.240 can do it, but I think there's a general consensus 1:17:46.320 --> 1:17:48.879 on the science community is certainly and the sportsmen's community 1:17:49.640 --> 1:17:51.640 that you know, we need more active management a lot 1:17:51.720 --> 1:18:04.439 of places, and that dovetails perfectly with clinton solution. I 1:18:04.520 --> 1:18:08.559 know you don't speak for them at all, but takes 1:18:08.840 --> 1:18:11.800 take a group like National Wild Turkey Federation. Have they 1:18:13.439 --> 1:18:19.280 are they articulating specifically a desire to address climate Yes, 1:18:19.560 --> 1:18:24.599 they hadn't before. And it's because it pisses people off. Man. Yeah, 1:18:24.600 --> 1:18:27.600 I mean it's the word has been so politicized and 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:30.479 you know, people just retreating to their camps. And you know, 1:18:30.520 --> 1:18:33.640 Becky Humphreys, who's I think, you know, terrific CEO. And 1:18:33.720 --> 1:18:37.639 she's on my board with you, Steve. I mean, she's 1:18:37.760 --> 1:18:40.160 you know, understands us. She comes from a science background, 1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:42.439 and she's not going to talk to a membership about 1:18:42.479 --> 1:18:45.160 climate solu. She's just gonna talk about active management. She's 1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:47.400 going to talk about, you know, doubling the size of 1:18:47.479 --> 1:18:49.920 the conservation programs in the Farm Bill, which is what 1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:53.519 we're calling for in our statement to Congress. So instead 1:18:53.560 --> 1:18:56.080 of six billion dollars a year in conservation, kicked that 1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:59.120 up somewhere around twelve billion. And that's not all c 1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:02.719 r P, it's you know, the Regional Conservation Partnership Program, 1:19:02.800 --> 1:19:04.960 it's equip it's a bunch of other good stuff that 1:19:05.000 --> 1:19:07.280 the farm bill does, you know, whatever makes the most 1:19:07.280 --> 1:19:10.000 sentence in a given region. But we want more land 1:19:10.160 --> 1:19:14.000 in conservation and less land, you know, being especially in 1:19:14.080 --> 1:19:16.960 marginal habitats being converted to row crops. Yeah, you can 1:19:17.040 --> 1:19:20.919 tell a real good story about what natural prairie grasses 1:19:21.040 --> 1:19:26.720 do or native prairie grasses do. For poulse Right, you 1:19:26.800 --> 1:19:28.960 grow a lot of birds well, and then if you know, 1:19:29.080 --> 1:19:32.439 you do a soil segment on those you look how 1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:36.839 deep those roots are in native grasses versus introduced grasses, 1:19:37.439 --> 1:19:39.240 and you know that's where all that carbon is is 1:19:39.280 --> 1:19:41.880 going down in those deep root systems. You look at 1:19:42.040 --> 1:19:45.800 soil carbon maps the US. The most important area is 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:48.840 that prairie pothole region. There is a ton of carbon 1:19:48.920 --> 1:19:51.160 in those soils and every time they get plowed up, 1:19:51.520 --> 1:19:54.600 that's getting released. So we ought to be restoring the 1:19:54.680 --> 1:19:57.519 areas we've already trashed as well as protecting the rest 1:19:57.560 --> 1:20:00.320 of that prairie pothole region. And if you care about climate, 1:20:00.479 --> 1:20:04.160 and if you care about natural infrastructure, down water, downstream 1:20:04.200 --> 1:20:08.280 water quality, you want to protect those areas. So move 1:20:08.400 --> 1:20:11.160 over from in terms of the Hunter day picture and 1:20:11.240 --> 1:20:15.400 who they've gotten placed from the Department of Agriculture to Interior. 1:20:16.000 --> 1:20:17.920 It's like, what are your what are your sort of 1:20:18.000 --> 1:20:20.960 gut a gut impressions about the nominee. Well, you know, 1:20:21.040 --> 1:20:24.360 I didn't know. She's now a confirmed Deb Holland, who 1:20:24.439 --> 1:20:27.400 was a congresswoman from New Mexico. She has only had 1:20:27.439 --> 1:20:30.479 one term in Congress. Um, but she's, as she likes 1:20:30.520 --> 1:20:33.160 to say, she's a thirty fifth generation New Mexican, you know, 1:20:33.240 --> 1:20:38.400 Native American. Her family grew up eating venison um. You know. 1:20:38.560 --> 1:20:41.760 So the challenge that she's going to face is, you know, 1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:46.840 it's a really political, a really controversial, complicated agency. You 1:20:46.920 --> 1:20:49.880 have everything from Bureau of Indian Affairs to the US 1:20:49.920 --> 1:20:53.320 Fish and Wildlife Service to the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management. 1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:55.840 There was a lot of things that fall underneath the 1:20:55.920 --> 1:20:58.160 Department of the Interior. I didn't know that the Bureau 1:20:58.200 --> 1:21:01.280 of Indian Affairs is still an Interior Oh yeah, I mean, 1:21:01.360 --> 1:21:06.000 if there's an we don't do Indian issues. But that 1:21:06.200 --> 1:21:08.400 is if there is one agency they could use some help, 1:21:08.439 --> 1:21:10.200 and one people that could use some help is the 1:21:10.280 --> 1:21:13.519 Native American community. I mean, when I worked in Congress, 1:21:13.560 --> 1:21:15.479 I spent a fair bit of time on reservations in 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:19.040 South Dakota, and you know, the average person just has 1:21:19.160 --> 1:21:22.560 no idea of you know, how lousy it is, you 1:21:22.640 --> 1:21:26.160 know currently. So I mean some you know tribes have 1:21:26.280 --> 1:21:27.800 got it figured out and do a really good job 1:21:27.840 --> 1:21:30.240 and have plenty of money, but others just have. I 1:21:30.280 --> 1:21:32.320 when we were trying to get running waters is back 1:21:32.360 --> 1:21:35.720 in the nineties, you know, into you know, some of 1:21:35.800 --> 1:21:38.599 the Sioux reservations in South Dakota who didn't have running water, 1:21:39.280 --> 1:21:42.680 do you you know. So we've seen the Biden administration 1:21:43.280 --> 1:21:48.880 UM kind of reverse a lot of Trump era rules. Um, 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:53.400 do you think we're gonna see um deb Holland kind 1:21:53.439 --> 1:21:57.760 of reinstate or try to get back a bunch of 1:21:57.840 --> 1:22:00.920 that monument ground. Yeah, I think she's I think she 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:04.200 was justin in Utah visiting Bears Ears and doing her 1:22:04.240 --> 1:22:07.280 own listening tour. So I suspect you're going to see 1:22:07.360 --> 1:22:10.280 those you know bears ears in Grand staircase, you know, 1:22:10.800 --> 1:22:14.479 re established the original for there may be some you 1:22:14.520 --> 1:22:17.040 know tweaks here and there, but no those will get 1:22:17.160 --> 1:22:19.840 you know, pushed back. There's a marine monument off of 1:22:19.880 --> 1:22:22.240 New England that was taken away. I think you'll get 1:22:22.280 --> 1:22:25.040 that back. So I think there will be but I 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:29.479 think they'll open up the bears ears thing again. Huh yea, 1:22:31.280 --> 1:22:33.200 So no, I think they'll be doing that. I think 1:22:33.240 --> 1:22:35.000 the bigger issues are gonna be things like oil and 1:22:35.040 --> 1:22:37.800 gas development on federal lands. I mean, when she was 1:22:38.280 --> 1:22:41.400 you know, congresswoman, she had called for, you know, ending 1:22:41.439 --> 1:22:43.519 oil and gas development on public lands. Or maybe it 1:22:43.560 --> 1:22:46.080 was during the campaign, but you know it was, but 1:22:46.280 --> 1:22:49.639 was friendly to wind and solar on public Oh sure, 1:22:50.760 --> 1:22:53.599 and you know that's you know she you know, that's 1:22:53.640 --> 1:22:55.000 you know, sort of the coming. You know, she has 1:22:55.040 --> 1:22:57.960 a fairly liberal district in New Mexico. You know that's 1:22:58.040 --> 1:23:00.720 the you know, feeling that renewable entered is better than 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:02.479 you know, oil and gas. And I would agree with that. 1:23:02.840 --> 1:23:05.000 But the problem is that you can't just turn off 1:23:05.040 --> 1:23:07.200 the spick and on oil and gas. I mean, it's 1:23:07.200 --> 1:23:10.320 gonna be around for a while. And yeah, you know, 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:12.600 my my trucks only a year old. I'm gonna be 1:23:12.680 --> 1:23:15.120 driving it for a while. And uh, you know the 1:23:15.200 --> 1:23:17.160 issue isn't you know where it comes from his demand 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:19.800 on long term because you could shut down oil and 1:23:19.840 --> 1:23:22.760 gas development on public lands, And all you're really doing 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:25.920 is screwing states like New Mexico, which have a lot 1:23:25.960 --> 1:23:28.360 of oil and gas on public lands, and shifting all 1:23:28.439 --> 1:23:32.120 that over to Texas or to North Dakota, which don't 1:23:32.120 --> 1:23:34.560 have a ton of public lands. So you're you're not 1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:37.679 really solving a problem, You're just screwing, you know, certain areas. 1:23:37.960 --> 1:23:41.320 I think a much more thoughtful approach is you deal 1:23:41.400 --> 1:23:43.600 with the you know, you deal with the issues of 1:23:43.680 --> 1:23:46.519 methane leakage. You just make the oil and gas development 1:23:46.520 --> 1:23:49.439 of public lands better than it has been. You get 1:23:49.520 --> 1:23:52.799 smarter about where you're going to sit oil and gas development, 1:23:53.200 --> 1:23:55.320 because there's also a ton of areas have already been leased. 1:23:55.640 --> 1:23:57.320 I mean that you know the cats out there, you 1:23:57.360 --> 1:23:59.479 know the door, the cattle's you know, the horses out 1:23:59.520 --> 1:24:01.040 of the barn. If you want an analogy, you want 1:24:01.080 --> 1:24:03.880 to use. So again, even if you were to say 1:24:03.960 --> 1:24:06.960 no new leasing starting today, there are still a ton 1:24:07.040 --> 1:24:08.960 that's going to happen. So the issue really is, you know, 1:24:09.000 --> 1:24:11.040 how do we do it better? And when you know, 1:24:11.160 --> 1:24:14.080 like Ken Styles are with Secretary of the Interior under Obama, 1:24:14.479 --> 1:24:17.400 they put together something called Master Lease Planning, which was 1:24:17.520 --> 1:24:20.639 before you develop an area and this could be oil 1:24:20.680 --> 1:24:22.479 and gas, it could be solar, it could be wind. 1:24:22.840 --> 1:24:24.799 You did look at a big area and you decide 1:24:24.840 --> 1:24:26.800 the areas where you can have development, where you never 1:24:26.880 --> 1:24:29.920 want to have development, where you can consolidate roads, pipelines, 1:24:31.120 --> 1:24:33.320 just to be much smarter about the development as opposed 1:24:33.320 --> 1:24:35.920 to Yeah, when you know Trump came in, it was 1:24:36.040 --> 1:24:38.519 under the and Zinc you would talk about energy dominance. 1:24:38.640 --> 1:24:42.120 The idea was energy development. It's going to take precedent 1:24:42.200 --> 1:24:44.800 over every other use on public lands, and they're not. 1:24:44.920 --> 1:24:46.560 We're not going to get in this way wherever it 1:24:46.600 --> 1:24:48.920 wants to go. Well, I mean that was more of 1:24:48.960 --> 1:24:52.639 a political stance, but it just creates problems because you're 1:24:52.760 --> 1:24:57.599 inviting controversy when you're offering leases in core stage Graph's 1:24:57.640 --> 1:25:01.560 habitat in the middle of migration orders. You know. So 1:25:01.840 --> 1:25:05.360 I think our senses and this is probably probably will 1:25:05.400 --> 1:25:07.760 shake out when an interior is there will continue to 1:25:07.840 --> 1:25:10.160 be oil and gas development. We've just done very differently 1:25:10.240 --> 1:25:13.520 that has in the past. Uh. Do you have concerns 1:25:13.560 --> 1:25:17.479 about working with Holland or do you Are you optimistic 1:25:17.479 --> 1:25:20.840 about it? Oh? I'm optimistic. I mean, uh, I've I've 1:25:21.200 --> 1:25:23.280 spent very little time with her. She'd been really good 1:25:23.320 --> 1:25:25.439 on our issues, but I just didn't know her personally. 1:25:25.479 --> 1:25:28.360 But then during the yeah, when she got nominated, and 1:25:28.439 --> 1:25:31.880 then until her you know, basically approval by the Senate, 1:25:32.360 --> 1:25:35.080 I think I had three different meetings with her and 1:25:35.400 --> 1:25:37.479 it was you know, and she was great. I mean, 1:25:37.640 --> 1:25:39.200 she didn't know a ton, she didn't pretend to know 1:25:39.320 --> 1:25:41.400 a ton, but she took copious notes and every time 1:25:41.439 --> 1:25:43.200 we met with her she was better than last time. 1:25:43.560 --> 1:25:45.640 She had understood what we were talking about. She was 1:25:45.680 --> 1:25:48.719 able to prioritize it. I think she valued our community 1:25:48.840 --> 1:25:52.000 as an important ally and her confirmation, and we're very 1:25:52.040 --> 1:25:53.960 happy to give her the benefit of doubt and work 1:25:54.040 --> 1:25:55.880 with her. The guy that just brought in is the 1:25:55.960 --> 1:25:59.439 number two at Interior. He still has to be confirmed. 1:25:59.479 --> 1:26:03.080 Tommy Boo Drow. He was in the obaministration. Good guy, 1:26:03.360 --> 1:26:07.240 you know, solid conservation credentials. Knows the department well. So 1:26:07.479 --> 1:26:10.679 she's been smart and putting people and keep positions around 1:26:10.720 --> 1:26:14.040 there who really know how that department works, because she 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:17.640 doesn't mean this is she's brand new there. And you know, 1:26:17.760 --> 1:26:20.840 Zinkie had that same issue that Held had a trouble 1:26:20.880 --> 1:26:24.720 being effective within department because he was complete outsider, and 1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:27.240 that's part of the reason he brought Dave Bernhard in, 1:26:27.560 --> 1:26:30.720 who had been a solicitor during the Bush administration. Knew 1:26:30.760 --> 1:26:34.519 the agency, and things, you know, improved dramatically, you know, 1:26:34.600 --> 1:26:37.120 the Trump administration when Berner came in because he was 1:26:37.200 --> 1:26:40.200 a stabilizing, steadying hand. He understood what the agency could 1:26:40.200 --> 1:26:42.920 and couldn't do. Remember when you know, after he got 1:26:43.080 --> 1:26:47.040 picked to be Secretary of the Interior, we had a conversation. 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:49.720 I mentioned energy anomous. He said, you will never hear 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:54.120 me say that again because it's not legal. We are 1:26:54.120 --> 1:26:57.240 a multiple use agency. We have to we can't just 1:26:57.560 --> 1:26:59.680 arbitrarily pick one of these things and make it more 1:26:59.680 --> 1:27:02.240 importan and everything else. I came to like him quite 1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:04.880 a bit. Um. I mean, there's plenty of things that 1:27:05.040 --> 1:27:07.840 that I didn't agree with him about, but I did 1:27:08.040 --> 1:27:16.200 like and valued there uh stance on expanding access and 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:20.280 doing some other things that rolling back some things like 1:27:20.360 --> 1:27:22.559 there was things a thing in Alaska I found particularly 1:27:22.600 --> 1:27:26.080 I somewhere they stripped the state of certain management practice 1:27:26.120 --> 1:27:28.080 abilities if they wanted to do it. I thought that 1:27:28.200 --> 1:27:31.360 was a bogus play and they moved that back. But 1:27:31.600 --> 1:27:33.640 do you do you think that in the new administration 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:37.200 there's going to be like we will sportsman's access be 1:27:37.280 --> 1:27:39.680 a thing that ever comes out of their mouths? You think? So? 1:27:39.960 --> 1:27:42.720 I think, you know, they were I got a call 1:27:42.840 --> 1:27:44.600 from Interior that they were going to I don't know 1:27:44.640 --> 1:27:46.280 if they've done it yet or whether they were going 1:27:46.360 --> 1:27:47.680 to do it you know, shortly, but they're going to 1:27:47.760 --> 1:27:53.000 open up another ninety you know, areas within the refuge system. Yeah, 1:27:53.240 --> 1:27:55.280 I was going there and that was the fraight you're 1:27:55.280 --> 1:27:57.800 gonna tell me that that would be rolled back? And 1:27:57.880 --> 1:27:59.240 that was one of the things we made sure that 1:27:59.400 --> 1:28:02.559 this this is something that Obama did, This is something 1:28:02.640 --> 1:28:04.640 that Trump did, This is something you guys ought to do. 1:28:05.520 --> 1:28:07.000 And it's you know a lot of it is not 1:28:07.160 --> 1:28:09.360 you know, sort of rocket science. It's you know, their 1:28:09.600 --> 1:28:13.000 areas are closed for no good reason and have been historically, 1:28:13.040 --> 1:28:15.080 and nobody really knows why. I just never been open. 1:28:15.800 --> 1:28:17.960 And and then the other issue was, and I give 1:28:18.000 --> 1:28:20.000 the Trump guys a lot of credit on this, you 1:28:20.080 --> 1:28:23.080 may have your particular rules on the refuge that are 1:28:23.520 --> 1:28:26.840 totally different than next door on state Land or general 1:28:26.920 --> 1:28:30.000 statewide legs, and that may make sense, but if you're 1:28:30.000 --> 1:28:32.400 gonna make them different, have a reason for them being different. 1:28:32.600 --> 1:28:34.439 Don't just have them different for being different, because it 1:28:34.479 --> 1:28:37.080 just makes it harder for all of us to participate. 1:28:37.200 --> 1:28:39.479 To know what the rules are. So that you know, 1:28:40.080 --> 1:28:42.640 Trump guys did a good job of basically conforming the 1:28:42.720 --> 1:28:45.639 refuge rules with the state rules, and I hope that continues. 1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:53.400 M hmm. We're earlier, we're discussing New Mexico's new trapping band. Uh, 1:28:54.080 --> 1:28:58.639 I understand, Like sitting here, I understand perfectly well, Um, 1:28:59.400 --> 1:29:05.439 why that it's not t RCPs fight, Okay, Like I 1:29:05.840 --> 1:29:07.800 I want to hear from you why it's not, and 1:29:07.840 --> 1:29:09.760 then I want to question you why it's not a 1:29:09.880 --> 1:29:16.480 little bit because um, it's a hunter angler based conservation organization. 1:29:17.160 --> 1:29:19.519 And I know that you can't get bogged down in 1:29:19.720 --> 1:29:23.080 in the constant legislation and referendums about what you would 1:29:23.080 --> 1:29:26.000 call method of take issues, so like how the particulars 1:29:26.040 --> 1:29:30.240 of how people access game. But at a point, if 1:29:30.400 --> 1:29:35.760 rights continuously get stripped down, it will become an existential 1:29:35.840 --> 1:29:40.639 thing for you. True. So the way you know, first 1:29:40.720 --> 1:29:43.200 we're we focused on federal policy and not state policy. 1:29:43.320 --> 1:29:45.960 So that's an easy out as to why we wouldn't 1:29:45.960 --> 1:29:49.400 engage in something like that. Second, you know, we've always, 1:29:49.640 --> 1:29:52.479 you know, tend to defer to the states in terms 1:29:52.560 --> 1:29:54.720 of fishing game management because the states have always had 1:29:54.880 --> 1:29:58.479 primary jurisdiction, and you know, we don't want to sort 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:01.240 of I'd like just keep Congress out of it as 1:30:01.320 --> 1:30:04.560 much as humanly possible in terms of every now and 1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:07.280 then you have something like you John Tester and Mike 1:30:07.320 --> 1:30:09.200 Simpson having to deal with the wolf issue and a 1:30:09.280 --> 1:30:12.839 greater Yellowstone. But Congress should not be in the business 1:30:13.120 --> 1:30:16.120 of dictating fish and wildlife management. That should be left 1:30:16.160 --> 1:30:19.559 to the professionals within the states. And now if states 1:30:19.640 --> 1:30:23.439 sta start going, you know, very much down a bad path, 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:27.479 then yeah, maybe we have to rethink, Yeah, our stance. 1:30:27.560 --> 1:30:29.120 Maybe we do have to engage in some of those 1:30:29.200 --> 1:30:30.920 But because I agree with you, But if you got 1:30:30.960 --> 1:30:34.320 to your point where you thought, wow, it really is 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:39.120 a slippery slope and we've split off the slope, I 1:30:39.200 --> 1:30:41.560 could just I'm not inviting you to do it, but 1:30:41.640 --> 1:30:43.960 I but I think I've expressed this to you in 1:30:44.000 --> 1:30:46.200 the past. I have a small amount of like I 1:30:46.320 --> 1:30:51.200 have a teensy bit of frustration with wildlife groups who 1:30:51.439 --> 1:30:56.160 I feel could probably could perhaps be impactful around defending 1:30:57.880 --> 1:31:01.120 hunting rights, angling rights, trapping right, that they might be 1:31:01.280 --> 1:31:07.200 impactful because it would be an unexpected voice for wildlife, 1:31:07.439 --> 1:31:10.760 like hunter based environmental groups, hunter based wildlife groups, to 1:31:10.840 --> 1:31:13.760 say like, this matters to our constituency, this matters to 1:31:13.840 --> 1:31:18.560 our supporters. You need to understand that this is this 1:31:18.720 --> 1:31:21.679 is upsetting to us because I feel like it would 1:31:21.840 --> 1:31:24.640 help us defeat some of these things that some of 1:31:24.680 --> 1:31:27.400 these losses we're having. Yeah, and I think that you know, 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:29.840 you'll see a lot of our community will engage and 1:31:30.040 --> 1:31:33.160 those you know, the different groups that do engage in 1:31:33.240 --> 1:31:36.879 those state fights, from you know, maybe Boone and Crockett 1:31:36.960 --> 1:31:39.320 on a you know, sort of intellectual level, to the 1:31:39.360 --> 1:31:43.439 Association of state Fish and Wildlife agencies, to any individual 1:31:43.520 --> 1:31:45.360 group that happens to be a strong in a particular area. 1:31:46.120 --> 1:31:48.840 But it just hasn't been our issue in the past. 1:31:49.320 --> 1:31:52.200 I mean, if we can be supportive to our partners 1:31:52.240 --> 1:31:54.240 who are engaged in these things, we will, and it 1:31:54.320 --> 1:31:56.600 may at some point maybe we will have to recalculate 1:31:56.720 --> 1:31:59.280 and engage in some of these but we have enough 1:32:00.000 --> 1:32:02.600 stuff going on in Congress right now and on the 1:32:02.680 --> 1:32:05.000 federal side that we're not looking for any you know, 1:32:05.080 --> 1:32:08.240 new fights. No again, man, I totally understand. You can't 1:32:08.280 --> 1:32:11.280 be everything everybody. If you just were like a drunk 1:32:11.280 --> 1:32:15.439 guy in a bar throwing wild punches, right, you get 1:32:15.479 --> 1:32:17.720 a bottle, you get the bout as far so I 1:32:17.840 --> 1:32:20.120 understand it. But I think it's just you know, helpful 1:32:20.160 --> 1:32:22.840 to have. Yeah, yeah, And I think that there, you know, 1:32:23.240 --> 1:32:25.599 there's some allocation issues we will engage in. I mean 1:32:25.720 --> 1:32:29.320 issue like you know, girlfriend snapper, Yeah, which you know 1:32:29.520 --> 1:32:31.840 is you know, you could argue with sort of you know, 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:35.040 feeds versus the state and a very parochial issue down there, 1:32:35.080 --> 1:32:38.080 but it had much broader implications about how we managed 1:32:38.120 --> 1:32:42.200 recreational fisheries and federal waters. So we would we engaged 1:32:42.280 --> 1:32:47.960 on that issue. Meaning, uh, just like to to express 1:32:48.040 --> 1:32:51.040 differently that you engage in in a state issue if 1:32:51.080 --> 1:32:54.920 you feel that it's something that has potential implications that 1:32:54.960 --> 1:32:59.000 would occur around the nation in a similar some sort 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:01.080 of direct federal next us. And in that one, it 1:33:01.200 --> 1:33:04.640 was about federal fisheries management. And essentially the solution is 1:33:05.040 --> 1:33:08.240 let the states take over and which we did. They 1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:11.080 say they took over red snapper management and read there 1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:13.160 are a lot more red snapper out there than you 1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:15.320 know people used to think, there we are, and that 1:33:15.439 --> 1:33:18.599 fishery is very well managed right now. And so that worked. 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:20.599 But that was a case where you know, we were 1:33:20.840 --> 1:33:25.280 arguing about state versus federal jurisdiction on that one. Generally 1:33:25.320 --> 1:33:28.519 we don't engage checked your federal box. But I'll give 1:33:28.520 --> 1:33:30.080 you another example of a place where we have engaged 1:33:30.080 --> 1:33:33.280 of state issues, like when the Trump administration basically rolled 1:33:33.320 --> 1:33:36.080 back Clean Water Act and you know, it took out 1:33:36.160 --> 1:33:38.160 half the wetlands in the country and you know, a 1:33:38.240 --> 1:33:41.519 large percentage of headwater streams from jurisdiction. It was very 1:33:41.560 --> 1:33:43.639 clear that Congress wasn't gonna deal with the issue. We're 1:33:43.640 --> 1:33:46.160 gon we're going to get any place the administration. So 1:33:46.280 --> 1:33:50.240 we helped, like in Pennsylvania, an effort to increase their 1:33:50.600 --> 1:33:53.479 water quality standards, recognizing that that was where the game 1:33:53.560 --> 1:33:54.720 was going to be played. And if we could help 1:33:54.720 --> 1:33:58.720 a couple of states essentially developed prototypes about how they 1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:01.640 can protect their own waters, we could bypass you know, 1:34:01.840 --> 1:34:05.479 the federal legislation until or federal problem until at some 1:34:05.560 --> 1:34:08.880 point Congress wanted to deal with this issue. So again 1:34:08.960 --> 1:34:10.760 that was an area where I felt that there was 1:34:10.920 --> 1:34:13.160 we can get into it because you know, this is 1:34:13.240 --> 1:34:17.120 relevant given the lack of federal engagement on an important issue. 1:34:17.600 --> 1:34:19.600 That is, you know, not just Pennsylvania. If they have 1:34:19.640 --> 1:34:22.479 shitty water quality in Pennsylvania, that means the Chesapeake Bay suffers. 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:25.600 So you know, if we can create some prototypes and 1:34:25.640 --> 1:34:28.080 states like Pennsylvania about how they can protect their own 1:34:28.160 --> 1:34:31.559 streams better, then that's you know, worth putting out there. 1:34:32.360 --> 1:34:33.920 What do you think is going to happen? This is 1:34:33.960 --> 1:34:35.519 my last one for you right now. What do you 1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:39.000 think is going to happen with And you've got to 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:41.439 kind of explain a little bit too. Now that the 1:34:41.479 --> 1:34:44.040 administrations have switched, what do you think it's going to 1:34:44.120 --> 1:34:48.519 happen around the tong is roleless stuff. I think that 1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:51.880 will get again go back to you know, the previous 1:34:52.000 --> 1:34:54.559 roadless rule, you know, so those areas will get protected 1:34:54.600 --> 1:34:57.160 again and again we would like to see you know, 1:34:57.280 --> 1:34:59.920 some sort of you know, not have this flip back 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:03.200 and forth every four years who's in power. So I 1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:06.160 think we would be you know, perfectly happy to sort 1:35:06.200 --> 1:35:08.400 of do what we did with Idaho or Colorado state 1:35:08.479 --> 1:35:12.240 specific roadless rules, and maybe a blanket roadless protection and 1:35:12.360 --> 1:35:14.639 tongas may not be perfect. Maybe there are areas where 1:35:14.680 --> 1:35:16.960 you want to have, you know, some changes to that. 1:35:17.520 --> 1:35:21.320 Let's have that discussion. Um. But opening the entire area 1:35:21.840 --> 1:35:25.920 to development was not a good solution, I do have. 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:29.920 I lied it was one more pebble mine. Yeah, it's 1:35:30.000 --> 1:35:33.439 kind of in its death throws wriothing on the ground 1:35:33.560 --> 1:35:37.800 right now. Is someone gonna, you know, well and put 1:35:38.000 --> 1:35:40.439 put one behind its ear. That's certainly what we want 1:35:40.439 --> 1:35:43.000 to have happened there. You know. Obviously the Pebble partnership 1:35:43.080 --> 1:35:46.360 is appealing. You know, it's denial of a permit. So 1:35:46.720 --> 1:35:50.800 this is still actually alive from an administrative standpoint. Now, 1:35:50.920 --> 1:35:54.800 I do not expect the Biden administration corp of Engineers 1:35:54.920 --> 1:35:58.000 to reverse the Trump administration to say you go for it, 1:35:58.040 --> 1:36:00.519 you got a permit, you can develop this mine. But 1:36:00.840 --> 1:36:03.320 long term, yeah, we've got to figure out a way 1:36:03.320 --> 1:36:06.080 to permanently protect that area. And we've been in quiet 1:36:06.120 --> 1:36:11.000 discussions with Center, Murkowski and Sullivan about you know, what 1:36:11.120 --> 1:36:14.160 would it take to you know, it could be a 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:19.120 land swap that creates in Upper Bristol Bay National Wildlife Refuge, 1:36:19.720 --> 1:36:22.240 which in theory it would still allow you can do 1:36:22.400 --> 1:36:24.599 mining on refuges, but you can't do it if it's 1:36:24.600 --> 1:36:28.160 gonna impact salmon um, you know, is that one of 1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:31.519 the solutions. Is there a state solution, you know, states 1:36:31.600 --> 1:36:34.960 protecting those lands? You know, I think that Alaska is 1:36:34.960 --> 1:36:37.200 probably gonna want, you know, a chunk of flesh to 1:36:37.520 --> 1:36:39.560 sort of take development off the table, because that's the 1:36:39.600 --> 1:36:42.840 way Alaska works. So they're gonna want to either pile 1:36:42.920 --> 1:36:45.720 the money or they're gonna want to you know, land 1:36:45.800 --> 1:36:48.080 transfer someplace where they can actually make money. You know, 1:36:48.200 --> 1:36:50.519 long term, you can't. I mean, you can't blame them. 1:36:50.680 --> 1:36:53.040 I agree. I know you're saying that's how Alaska works, 1:36:53.040 --> 1:36:54.639 but that's how a lot of places work. Yeah. Yeah, 1:36:54.680 --> 1:36:56.439 Alaska is just got it down to sort of in 1:36:56.520 --> 1:37:05.040 our the They have a lot of opportunities, and there's 1:37:05.080 --> 1:37:07.800 just so much federal land up there. I mean, you know, 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:09.680 you have to be able to develop some of it 1:37:09.840 --> 1:37:13.800 if you're gonna ach a living in Alaska. And there 1:37:13.800 --> 1:37:16.320 are certain areas that are far better for development than 1:37:16.600 --> 1:37:20.439 you know, the Pebble Mine area, that's for sure. Okay, 1:37:20.800 --> 1:37:24.080 any you want to add. I just say there's a 1:37:24.080 --> 1:37:25.800 couple of other things to keep your eyes on as 1:37:25.840 --> 1:37:30.240 you move forward. Thirty by thirty initiative that was talked 1:37:30.280 --> 1:37:33.519 about during the campaigns that was in the executive order. 1:37:33.760 --> 1:37:36.320 Not nothing to do with the ESPN. No, nothing to 1:37:36.400 --> 1:37:39.960 do with that, which I always love those, But this is, uh, 1:37:40.080 --> 1:37:42.519 this is actually you know, this came out internationally and 1:37:42.600 --> 1:37:45.600 it was around the biodiversity crisis, the idea of protecting 1:37:46.560 --> 1:37:51.400 of the world's lands and waters by and uh, you know, 1:37:51.520 --> 1:37:54.479 the how you do that is, you know, the challenge. 1:37:55.200 --> 1:37:57.920 So you know, the Biden administration, you know, during the 1:37:57.960 --> 1:38:01.479 campaign talked about it, and the initial Climate Executive Order 1:38:01.560 --> 1:38:03.960 came out of the White House they mentioned you know 1:38:04.080 --> 1:38:06.840 this thirty by thirty. Now it can go one of 1:38:06.920 --> 1:38:12.240 two ways. It could become a preservationist protect strategy where 1:38:12.280 --> 1:38:15.560 you're drawing lines on maps and not allowing any activity. 1:38:16.320 --> 1:38:19.760 And there's obviously the wilderness. You know, the hardcore environmental 1:38:19.800 --> 1:38:23.120 advocates are pushing in that direction. What the case we're 1:38:23.160 --> 1:38:25.400 trying to make is you've got to think much more 1:38:25.479 --> 1:38:27.960 broadly than that. First of all, it ought to include 1:38:28.000 --> 1:38:32.040 restoration because drawing a line around something that's degraded doesn't 1:38:32.080 --> 1:38:35.080 help you anyway. So there ought to be a restoration focus. 1:38:35.200 --> 1:38:38.439 We need to engage private landowners. If a land is 1:38:38.520 --> 1:38:41.880 under a conservation easement, but you know somebody is still 1:38:42.400 --> 1:38:47.280 cutting timber on it or making a doing agriculture, my mind, 1:38:47.360 --> 1:38:51.000 that's conserved. It's never gonna have Walmart there. It's never 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:54.160 gonna have condos if it's got a permanent conservation easement. 1:38:54.640 --> 1:38:58.280 If you have you know, working for ESTs someplace again 1:38:58.360 --> 1:39:01.320 that are under conservation easement, there are certify sustainable by 1:39:01.400 --> 1:39:05.639 a third party FSC s f I, the two outside 1:39:05.720 --> 1:39:10.559 forest certifying bodies, my mind, that aut account is protected. Again, 1:39:10.600 --> 1:39:13.000 it's never going to get developed. And if your goal 1:39:13.120 --> 1:39:17.919 is climate or biodiversity, as we talked about that mosaic 1:39:18.000 --> 1:39:22.519 of habitats, having some young habitat is a good thing, um, 1:39:22.720 --> 1:39:26.360 you know, so we've been arguing that define. You know, 1:39:26.720 --> 1:39:30.040 to find this broadly and use the word conserve and 1:39:30.160 --> 1:39:33.599 not protect, because you instead of making this scary, say 1:39:33.640 --> 1:39:35.960 to western landowner who thinks you're going to go in 1:39:36.080 --> 1:39:39.040 and lock up their land, they've become part of the solution. 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:43.000 You know, you can incentivise them to protect an area, 1:39:43.080 --> 1:39:44.760 to put a conservation he has been on it, to 1:39:45.640 --> 1:39:48.560 plant things that you improve soil health, to deal with 1:39:48.640 --> 1:39:51.800 carbon still make a living, and I just think that 1:39:51.920 --> 1:39:53.800 makes a lot more sense. So when the executive order 1:39:53.840 --> 1:39:56.439 came out of the White House, uh yeah, we won 1:39:56.560 --> 1:40:00.040 round one. It had the word conserve in their and 1:40:00.120 --> 1:40:04.000 not protect, which was important symbolically. It also laid out 1:40:04.120 --> 1:40:08.120 a stakeholder process that includes private landowners to talk about 1:40:08.560 --> 1:40:10.240 how are we going to define this and what's going 1:40:10.280 --> 1:40:12.160 to go into it. And that process will probably be 1:40:12.280 --> 1:40:15.519 rolled out by the Interior Department in the next week 1:40:15.640 --> 1:40:17.599 or so. I don't know what's going to be in there, 1:40:17.880 --> 1:40:19.960 but it's definitely gonna be worth something to watch because 1:40:20.479 --> 1:40:23.000 it can blow up and be here thrown out and 1:40:23.120 --> 1:40:25.639 perceived as a land grab and the top down approach, 1:40:26.200 --> 1:40:29.280 or it could be aspirational and you know, has a 1:40:29.400 --> 1:40:31.679 lot of folks behind it trying to make it work, 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:35.800 including private landowners. The goal is do you know what 1:40:36.040 --> 1:40:40.560 percentage is protected? Again, it depends on how you define that. 1:40:40.840 --> 1:40:43.080 You know. The USGS did some sort of you know 1:40:43.160 --> 1:40:45.800 study a while back, and they said that twelve of 1:40:45.960 --> 1:40:49.680 the nation's lands are currently protected but they only use 1:40:49.760 --> 1:40:54.040 the definition of I think national parks, wilderness areas, national monuments, 1:40:54.479 --> 1:40:57.439 you know, the hardest core protection that we have. They didn't, 1:40:57.520 --> 1:40:59.880 you know, they did not look at conservation easements on 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:02.920 private lands. You know, they did not look at you know, 1:41:03.360 --> 1:41:07.080 like regular Forest service lands that are well managed but 1:41:07.200 --> 1:41:09.320 are not quite protected in that sense because there may 1:41:09.360 --> 1:41:12.439 still be timber harvest on them. I'd imagine if you're 1:41:12.439 --> 1:41:14.200 going to do that right, you'd want to find a 1:41:14.320 --> 1:41:19.759 way to um begin to consider even like recreational properties, 1:41:19.800 --> 1:41:21.840 like the more we're sitting on right now. Sure that 1:41:22.479 --> 1:41:25.920 a recreate that that a recreational property would have UM 1:41:26.439 --> 1:41:28.840 and I know there's conservation easements stuff, but that they 1:41:28.880 --> 1:41:32.800 would have pathways. Would it would have pathways to become 1:41:32.840 --> 1:41:34.519 that what I would are you even you know, like 1:41:34.560 --> 1:41:37.200 a CRP, which maybe are a ten or twenty year contract. 1:41:37.560 --> 1:41:40.120 I mean, we want as much land and that type 1:41:40.200 --> 1:41:41.920 thing as we can get. That's not going to get developed, 1:41:41.960 --> 1:41:45.000 we know for ten or twenty years. And uh, let's 1:41:45.040 --> 1:41:47.040 count that, you know, so let's you know, air on 1:41:47.120 --> 1:41:49.120 the side of counting more as supposed to lesson if 1:41:49.160 --> 1:41:51.960 we have more than protected, great, well that's what. I 1:41:52.040 --> 1:41:53.960 feel like they raised the goalposts, they got the car 1:41:54.560 --> 1:41:57.040 in front of the horse. I feel like you'd have 1:41:57.200 --> 1:42:01.200 to get your hands around. Uh, there should be like 1:42:01.320 --> 1:42:05.680 gold Star, Okay, gold Star being wilderness areas, Like how 1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:09.120 many gold star lands do we have right down to 1:42:09.280 --> 1:42:14.560 bronze Star? And maybe that catches CRP lands. Add that 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:17.600 up and then say like are we satisfied with that 1:42:17.800 --> 1:42:19.519 or should it be more? I would argue that we'd 1:42:19.560 --> 1:42:21.800 probably want to increase it. But to just throw out 1:42:21.880 --> 1:42:23.760 some wild ass number when no one even though it 1:42:25.400 --> 1:42:28.040 came out from the international perspective, you're thinking about sub 1:42:28.120 --> 1:42:32.479 Saharan Africa, South America and the Amazon or Southeast Asia, 1:42:32.760 --> 1:42:36.680 a lot of these really rich biodversity areas that you 1:42:36.720 --> 1:42:39.040 know are not protected at all. I get it. I 1:42:39.160 --> 1:42:41.200 get why they're laying out these, you know, sort of 1:42:41.400 --> 1:42:44.600 what it seems like very ambitious goals for us. You know, 1:42:44.680 --> 1:42:46.680 we've got a ton of protected land. You know, we 1:42:46.760 --> 1:42:49.160 have six D forty million acres of public lands in 1:42:49.200 --> 1:42:52.360 this country that are never getting developed. Now you may 1:42:52.600 --> 1:42:55.639 argue that, you know, having a solar array or oil 1:42:55.680 --> 1:42:58.920 and gas development or timber harvest's development. Okay, we can 1:42:59.000 --> 1:43:02.960 have that argument those of three real different things, because 1:43:03.360 --> 1:43:08.960 I would go no, no, yes, right, yeah. So I 1:43:09.040 --> 1:43:10.800 think that you know, again, it depends on how you 1:43:10.880 --> 1:43:12.720 define this stuff. And that's a great conversation to have. 1:43:12.880 --> 1:43:15.120 Let's have that conversation. And I think that we win 1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:18.160 on the merits. When you're talking about biodiversity and carbon 1:43:19.439 --> 1:43:23.280 I'm thinking sixty doesn't have the ring. I think they 1:43:23.320 --> 1:43:25.439 did it because the ring, right, Oh yeah, no, absolutely, 1:43:27.840 --> 1:43:31.479 But I think you have to consider private lands and 1:43:31.760 --> 1:43:35.040 and you know, recreational properties. When you look at the 1:43:35.120 --> 1:43:38.280 amount of private ground that that is, you know, on 1:43:38.360 --> 1:43:45.320 the tax record, like dedicated to recreation specifically wildlife. Um m, 1:43:46.280 --> 1:43:50.360 that that outshines. That makes that six million acres look 1:43:50.400 --> 1:43:55.120 like million acres. We got a lot more in private 1:43:55.200 --> 1:43:58.120 because that approach is also saying that this this thirty 1:43:58.760 --> 1:44:00.240 and I know you're not like sitting here, you're like 1:44:00.400 --> 1:44:02.880 ready to take bullets for the thirty by thirty, but 1:44:03.479 --> 1:44:06.040 that this thirty will all happen to be west of 1:44:06.040 --> 1:44:10.439 the Mississippi River. No, yeah, it's gotta be, you know, 1:44:10.560 --> 1:44:13.400 that's it's got to engage private land, I think, and 1:44:13.560 --> 1:44:15.840 I think there's beginning to be broad agreement on that 1:44:16.000 --> 1:44:18.639 even within the Biden White House, so which is good. 1:44:18.880 --> 1:44:20.920 And then you know, then we can think about things 1:44:21.000 --> 1:44:22.679 like a farm bill and how that can be used 1:44:23.280 --> 1:44:25.839 properties like this where it may not even be under conservation. 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:27.120 He has been and probably would need to be to 1:44:27.160 --> 1:44:30.000 be counted. But you know, given the work that's been done, 1:44:30.080 --> 1:44:32.519 the bio diversity we have here, you know, the myriads 1:44:32.600 --> 1:44:35.439 of habitats, you know, this is exactly what you want. 1:44:36.320 --> 1:44:38.040 And we ought to be figure out ways that we 1:44:38.120 --> 1:44:40.639 can encourage folks like the guy who wants this land 1:44:41.080 --> 1:44:45.360 to enroll, you know, be a part of that accounting. Yeah, 1:44:46.040 --> 1:44:48.880 because there's I mean, you know, we talked about them 1:44:48.920 --> 1:44:53.120 all the time, but like Doug Durren's place, man, I mean, 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:56.320 you know, they got their families, got a few hundred 1:44:56.320 --> 1:44:58.519 acres of land, but I mean they they obsessed over 1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:01.960 every square inch of it. You know what's gonna look 1:45:02.000 --> 1:45:03.439 like in the future. What we need to do now, 1:45:03.760 --> 1:45:05.280 how can we keep it the way it is? How 1:45:05.360 --> 1:45:08.080 do we not break it up? You know? And I 1:45:08.160 --> 1:45:10.200 think that even the habitat side, I mean, let's make 1:45:10.200 --> 1:45:14.360 sure we have some snags for woods, and it's all 1:45:14.479 --> 1:45:17.080 happening there and then you imagine that um, and I 1:45:17.120 --> 1:45:19.760 don't I don't have any proposals, but if we really 1:45:19.800 --> 1:45:24.160 wanted to get serious about this thing, um, that there 1:45:24.200 --> 1:45:27.479 would be more of a sort of I guess some 1:45:27.600 --> 1:45:34.519 really smart person would come up with some expression, like 1:45:34.800 --> 1:45:42.400 like a more sort of elastic uh, expression of like 1:45:42.560 --> 1:45:47.519 the nation's goodwill towards that consideration and activity. That it's 1:45:47.560 --> 1:45:50.680 not that that if a family is thinking about it 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:53.920 in a certain way, it's not just like one person's death, 1:45:55.520 --> 1:45:59.400 Like it's not one person's death away from development, you know. 1:45:59.479 --> 1:46:01.760 And I know we have mechanisms in place, but I 1:46:01.880 --> 1:46:04.680 know they're like they're sometimes ownerous and and hard for 1:46:04.680 --> 1:46:05.920 people to deal with. And I don't know. I don't 1:46:05.960 --> 1:46:08.320 have the answers, but I imagine that we have any 1:46:08.479 --> 1:46:11.320 There's just a I'm just thinking about anoxially think about this, 1:46:11.439 --> 1:46:14.240 this this percentage thing. We have an enormous amount of 1:46:14.320 --> 1:46:17.880 land in this country. That's that people are thinking about, 1:46:19.120 --> 1:46:21.519 right for not just like waiting for it to hit 1:46:21.560 --> 1:46:24.160 a certain dollar figures so they can cash out and 1:46:24.320 --> 1:46:27.720 and turn into houses. They're like, man, I'd love for 1:46:27.760 --> 1:46:29.920 it to stay like this. Well, we haven't even talked 1:46:29.920 --> 1:46:31.880 about the ocean side too, and that's really what it 1:46:31.960 --> 1:46:34.920 got the you know, the hunting and fishing community kind 1:46:34.920 --> 1:46:37.479 of spooked on this whole thing to start with, because 1:46:37.560 --> 1:46:40.280 there was a process back in California, you know, a 1:46:40.320 --> 1:46:42.960 couple of decades ago that set up marine protected areas 1:46:43.000 --> 1:46:46.800 off of California that did not allow recreational fishing and 1:46:47.000 --> 1:46:49.720 even well managed recreational fishing like catch and release something 1:46:49.840 --> 1:46:53.320 like that, and uh, you know, and that was so 1:46:53.400 --> 1:46:55.759 when thirty by thirty I was starting to be talked about, 1:46:55.840 --> 1:46:58.040 and there was you know, there was a bill in 1:46:58.320 --> 1:47:01.040 California to you know, to be the first state to 1:47:01.120 --> 1:47:04.880 adapt thirty by thirty and it died in the California 1:47:04.960 --> 1:47:09.000 legislature because the sponsors you know, basically would not put 1:47:09.080 --> 1:47:12.519 in writing that recreational fishing should be allowed. So that 1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:15.639 ought to be a warning sign to the preservationist community 1:47:16.240 --> 1:47:19.120 that you know, let's be sensible here. We want people 1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:22.080 to get on the water, to enjoy it, to be 1:47:22.160 --> 1:47:24.000 a part of it, because you know, they're gonna be 1:47:24.080 --> 1:47:25.920 the you know, the future generation that's going to be 1:47:25.920 --> 1:47:28.280 there to protect this thing. They're not they're the best 1:47:28.280 --> 1:47:30.880 stewards out there where you know, you and I going 1:47:30.920 --> 1:47:33.120 out there fishing and catching a couple of fish for dinner. 1:47:33.280 --> 1:47:36.000 That's not the threat. The threat or bottom trolls that 1:47:36.040 --> 1:47:39.519 are trashing the habitat. It's ocean dumping, it's ocean mining. 1:47:40.080 --> 1:47:41.680 You know, it's that sort of stuff that ought to 1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:44.479 be you know, out of bounds in a protected area, 1:47:44.880 --> 1:47:47.559 not you know, us going out there and maybe killing 1:47:47.600 --> 1:47:49.640 a couple of fish to take home for dinner. As 1:47:49.640 --> 1:47:51.560 well as people want to feel good about themselves, but 1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:53.879 I don't want to feel like they're like totally screwing 1:47:53.920 --> 1:47:56.320 themselves to get there. Yeah, exactly. And plus it's just 1:47:57.000 --> 1:47:59.720 you know, if you're just you're create division and you 1:48:00.000 --> 1:48:02.519 create dissension where there shouldn't be any if you did 1:48:02.600 --> 1:48:05.840 something like the has no biological basis, like banning recreational 1:48:05.880 --> 1:48:09.120 fishing area the ocean. Now, if it's a spawning area 1:48:09.160 --> 1:48:11.200 and there's a good biological reas, gonna do it, fine, 1:48:11.680 --> 1:48:14.920 do it. There's a there's a every year we take 1:48:14.960 --> 1:48:18.320 our kids down to the area in Baja Peninsula in 1:48:20.080 --> 1:48:24.320 there's a small closed area there and it's uh, they 1:48:24.400 --> 1:48:27.120 really go out of their way to express the value 1:48:27.800 --> 1:48:32.840 of that closed area. So the signage around this this 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:38.920 marine this marine preserve. The signage has calculations of the 1:48:39.200 --> 1:48:47.320 number of fish caught by small commercial harvesters thanks to 1:48:48.720 --> 1:48:52.240 the closed area because it becomes a fish producing and 1:48:52.360 --> 1:48:55.759 it's like very it's like it's articulated in many ways 1:48:55.880 --> 1:48:58.960 in many places that that's what this is, you know, 1:48:59.200 --> 1:49:01.080 it's you could see that there's a little bit of 1:49:01.080 --> 1:49:05.880 a psychological game there. Um, don't be pissed, Like what 1:49:06.080 --> 1:49:10.000 you're harvesting comes from here. And that's I think a 1:49:10.200 --> 1:49:12.120 very reasonable way to look at it, because obviously that 1:49:12.200 --> 1:49:14.439 they've done some science there. They know the key or 1:49:14.479 --> 1:49:17.799 spawning areas, you know, and they've made a public education 1:49:17.840 --> 1:49:20.640 outreach a program around it. But before you just go 1:49:20.760 --> 1:49:22.880 off and zone off huge areas of the ocean just 1:49:22.960 --> 1:49:26.920 so you can meet some mystical goal, let's be thoughtful 1:49:26.920 --> 1:49:32.799 about this stuff. You guys, got any more questions? Nope? 1:49:34.360 --> 1:49:37.360 Good job? What kel kel seriously thought about whether he 1:49:37.400 --> 1:49:38.680 had a question or not. He didn't just say no, 1:49:39.080 --> 1:49:44.080 I did, like what direction? Can we start a new direction? 1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:46.040 And all certain? You know, No, you did a great job. 1:49:46.120 --> 1:49:48.840 That was great, all right, guess always good talking to you. 1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:52.679 Thanks for joining us. With again with Fosburg. The Theodore 1:49:53.080 --> 1:49:57.559 Roosevelt Conservation Partnership can be phone at TRCP dot org. 1:49:58.400 --> 1:50:01.120 Right on, send him a big old check, thank you? 1:50:01.280 --> 1:50:05.720 What'll write? What'll write you? Thank you? Note many right 1:50:05.840 --> 1:50:11.160 your reminder next year. He might convinit you if checks 1:50:11.160 --> 1:50:16.800 begging up? All right? Thanks with um. Remember when we 1:50:16.880 --> 1:50:20.200 used to do closing thoughts. I don't even remember what 1:50:20.280 --> 1:50:21.439 we used to call him? Is that what we call 1:50:21.479 --> 1:50:25.000 the closers? Closers? I just I still believe in them, 1:50:25.240 --> 1:50:27.200 especially got to the point where people would just I 1:50:27.240 --> 1:50:28.640 don't know. I just thought that people would know what 1:50:28.680 --> 1:50:31.720 to say him. Yeah that and if you've been going 1:50:31.840 --> 1:50:35.840 for two hours, then you know, closing thoughts just got 1:50:35.880 --> 1:50:38.439 another half an hour. But I have one today to 1:50:38.640 --> 1:50:43.880 actually one I found. I saw a tree. There's an 1:50:43.920 --> 1:50:47.560 old dead snag. Speaking of snags, I was near the 1:50:47.600 --> 1:50:50.439 power line and I see an old dead snag and 1:50:50.520 --> 1:50:55.240 about I don't know, head high. There's a plastic collar 1:50:56.479 --> 1:51:03.120 on this dead snag. This doesn't ring a bell. I 1:51:03.240 --> 1:51:06.880 mentioned it to guy. The guy says, yeah, your buddy 1:51:06.920 --> 1:51:11.640 Steve a dog collar. Oh yeah, I'm doing this with 1:51:11.800 --> 1:51:13.640 my arms. I know, but I don't know, man, I 1:51:13.680 --> 1:51:15.240 thought you meant the tree was like that and the 1:51:15.320 --> 1:51:18.320 snag was smaller and there was a plastic. Yeah, because 1:51:18.320 --> 1:51:21.680 we've been talking about that too. Oh yeah, we did 1:51:21.720 --> 1:51:24.040 tell a nasty story about a dog collar. Yeah, that's 1:51:24.040 --> 1:51:25.840 why I thought you meant a play. I got you, 1:51:26.880 --> 1:51:29.559 UM tell me about this plastic. I was walking along 1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:33.559 with guy uh and saw a wood duck come out 1:51:33.600 --> 1:51:36.920 of that tree, and I said, you ought to wrap 1:51:37.000 --> 1:51:39.400 that tree and something so the rack the raccoons, of 1:51:39.479 --> 1:51:42.760 which there are plenty, um, so the raccoons can't get 1:51:42.800 --> 1:51:46.040 up there and kill the wood ducks. And the way 1:51:46.160 --> 1:51:48.800 I remember the story is he was already planning on 1:51:48.920 --> 1:51:51.519 doing it. I think he's giving me credit for because 1:51:51.520 --> 1:51:53.080 he's a generous person, but I think it was on 1:51:53.240 --> 1:51:56.280 his radar. And now, is that something that you can 1:51:56.360 --> 1:51:59.320 just buy or is that cost him what I meant 1:51:59.360 --> 1:52:01.400 for him to do and what the practice I was 1:52:01.479 --> 1:52:05.400 familiar with, And it's probably expensive. If you had a 1:52:05.400 --> 1:52:08.720 lot of wood duck trees, is you remember people used 1:52:08.720 --> 1:52:12.799 to wrap them in Uh you'd buy sheet metal like aluminum, 1:52:12.840 --> 1:52:16.000 flashing whatever and wrap it in that. But I mean 1:52:16.000 --> 1:52:17.280 if you went out and if you wanted to do 1:52:17.360 --> 1:52:22.120 a dozen trees. You're probably you know, big trees. I mean, 1:52:22.240 --> 1:52:24.920 that's that's a hit to the pocketbook. So I'm glad 1:52:24.960 --> 1:52:27.760 there's some kind of plastic. What you do see is 1:52:27.800 --> 1:52:29.840 those things people sometimes put on, or those things that 1:52:29.880 --> 1:52:31.800 look like you're trying to keep squirrels out of your feet, 1:52:31.800 --> 1:52:36.680 are a flange that comes down to the angle. But 1:52:37.040 --> 1:52:38.720 I knew that. You know, in the old days you 1:52:38.800 --> 1:52:42.240 used to put flashing around it so they can't get 1:52:42.280 --> 1:52:45.280 purchased with their fingernails on it. But there's gotta be less, 1:52:45.520 --> 1:52:49.760 you know, cheaper less sort of visually. I mean, you know, 1:52:51.200 --> 1:52:55.120 it looks like a tree wrapped in aluminum from yeah, 1:52:55.240 --> 1:52:57.160 a million miles away. So I'm glad to hear that. 1:52:57.280 --> 1:53:00.360 He glad to hear they did it. Yeah, it was, 1:53:01.160 --> 1:53:03.400 you know, because at first it looks you think like 1:53:03.640 --> 1:53:05.720 that's kind of weird, unsightly, but then you know it 1:53:05.800 --> 1:53:10.760 has such a good purpose stoked about it. My other 1:53:10.840 --> 1:53:14.280 closing thought is, uh, you've seen this big, giant oak 1:53:14.360 --> 1:53:18.680 that we called the gobbler from yesterday and killed him 1:53:19.800 --> 1:53:22.280 and we went we took a walk around that oak 1:53:22.439 --> 1:53:25.840 now a few times during this turkey hunt and uh, 1:53:26.200 --> 1:53:28.920 standing next to that oak in awe of it. It is, 1:53:29.200 --> 1:53:32.000 but you were off looking at it from afar when 1:53:32.040 --> 1:53:34.760 we killed the bird. But I've also stood now. I 1:53:34.960 --> 1:53:37.519 sat underneath and he called a bird from it, and 1:53:37.720 --> 1:53:41.559 he called a bird to it, because they show up 1:53:41.600 --> 1:53:46.080 at that so you founded turkeys around. See. I've just 1:53:46.200 --> 1:53:49.560 been looking at that field and seen him. I've described 1:53:49.600 --> 1:53:52.160 to people like there's one by the you know, gallant. 1:53:52.160 --> 1:53:53.680 I might go sit under that oak here in the 1:53:53.800 --> 1:54:00.320 next an hour too. But it's like, it's a a 1:54:00.479 --> 1:54:02.960 big tree. I mean, what do you think the diameter 1:54:03.040 --> 1:54:07.160 of the base at least six ft? Yeah, yeah, I 1:54:07.200 --> 1:54:09.559 mean if you're on one side of it, you could 1:54:09.640 --> 1:54:12.560 hide three grown humans on the other side and not 1:54:12.680 --> 1:54:15.679 see them no problem. Yeah, it's a big tree. Huge. 1:54:16.280 --> 1:54:19.920 The first branches are long enough that they could be 1:54:20.000 --> 1:54:21.560 their own tree if you just cut them off and 1:54:21.720 --> 1:54:23.519 were able to just to plant them into the ground. 1:54:23.920 --> 1:54:26.320 They're like, I mean they might be sixty I mean, 1:54:27.160 --> 1:54:28.960 it's a giant and it sits right in the big 1:54:29.800 --> 1:54:33.920 in the middle of this. Uh, it's a cornfield. You 1:54:34.120 --> 1:54:36.880 like whoever you kind of have a soft spot for, 1:54:36.960 --> 1:54:40.680 whoever was clear in the land. Well, I got to 1:54:40.760 --> 1:54:42.480 notice and there was a there was a chunk of 1:54:42.560 --> 1:54:45.280 rebar drove down in the ground at the base of 1:54:45.320 --> 1:54:48.680 that tree. There's probably a corner at some point in time. 1:54:52.600 --> 1:54:54.720 Well I felt I thought it was either a corner 1:54:54.920 --> 1:54:57.280 or it had lightning protection. I was gonna say, somebody 1:54:57.320 --> 1:55:00.160 tried to ground. I think someone had such a off 1:55:00.200 --> 1:55:02.080 spot for a big old tree that they left it there. 1:55:02.240 --> 1:55:04.960 That's what I'd like to think. Well, you'd have to 1:55:05.040 --> 1:55:08.880 be some sort of evil person to cut that thing down. Well, 1:55:08.960 --> 1:55:11.040 I mean, it's got me to thinking about like the 1:55:11.120 --> 1:55:14.720 way that like like whatever you want to call it, preservation, 1:55:15.520 --> 1:55:19.000 conservation um, the way that it can hit you. And 1:55:19.080 --> 1:55:21.240 I was just really standing there like in awe of 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:23.720 the special thing and thinking how like like you're saying, 1:55:23.760 --> 1:55:25.720 you have to be evil to cut it down now, 1:55:26.640 --> 1:55:29.200 but like some special person had the forethought back in 1:55:29.240 --> 1:55:32.360 the day, and now you could take anybody from anywhere 1:55:32.360 --> 1:55:34.240 in the world and put them twenty ft from that 1:55:34.360 --> 1:55:37.040 tree and they would sit there and awe. And I 1:55:37.160 --> 1:55:40.000 think that we all need to like have that try 1:55:40.080 --> 1:55:43.760 to have that mindset sometimes, you know, when you're just 1:55:43.880 --> 1:55:47.600 going about the world, just have forethought to think what 1:55:47.760 --> 1:55:50.320 stuff gonna be like for future generations, you know, when 1:55:50.360 --> 1:55:53.800 it comes to nature, because something like that is just spectacular. 1:55:53.960 --> 1:55:55.440 But you also got to be the person that can 1:55:55.480 --> 1:55:57.800 look at an old dead snag and know the value 1:55:57.800 --> 1:56:02.680 of that too. That too, that too. There's a lot 1:56:02.720 --> 1:56:06.400 of wildlife value in that. Ok, there's a lot of 1:56:06.440 --> 1:56:10.080 ship using it. Bunch of coon crap at the base 1:56:10.160 --> 1:56:15.280 of it. Oh yeah, cardinals, rubs, it's it smells like 1:56:15.480 --> 1:56:19.120 a like a farm. There's so many deer laying underneath it. 1:56:20.280 --> 1:56:22.920 When you're sitting there you catch that. I was like, man, 1:56:23.000 --> 1:56:25.040 it's like elky almost, but I think it's just so 1:56:25.200 --> 1:56:29.200 many deer, so much stuff uses it. Yeah, that's cool, 1:56:30.920 --> 1:56:33.440 all right. Thank you Johnnie for the closers. Now you're welcome, 1:56:33.600 --> 1:56:36.720 and thank you everybody out there for listening. See you soon.