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Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light, Go farther, stay longer.

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Speaker 1: All right, ladies and gentlemen, Yohny is gonna introduce everybody. Annie,

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Speaker 1: Can I say what town we're near? Don't give a ship.

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Speaker 1: We're here in southwest Michigan, at our buddy Matt's place

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Speaker 1: on some turks, less than an hour from my dad,

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Speaker 1: who I'm not going to see on this trip probably,

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Speaker 1: but who appreciates good interest. And uh, we got what

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Speaker 1: Fosburgh from TRC be Seth Morris, the flip flop Flesher Flesher,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan, oh cal four oh six on Instagram, and

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Speaker 1: Steven Ronella speaking Instagram handles. I was wondering why Joe

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Speaker 1: Surmelli from b Side Fishing, which is a great fishing

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Speaker 1: show if you haven't seen it, just one episode so far.

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Speaker 1: At there's two out right now, there will be two.

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Speaker 1: There's two out probably by the time this thing there is,

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Speaker 1: all four of them will be out Jersey fishing and

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Speaker 1: what else. It's all stuff around Jersey sunny. Oh nice, nice,

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Speaker 1: that's this season's theme. I've seen the new Jersey Turnpike

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Speaker 1: a couple of times on the show. No, just driving

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Speaker 1: on you just personally, that's all my experience. And did

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Speaker 1: you love it? Um? I thought it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: as far as infrastructure goes, it was a solid piece

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Speaker 1: of work. You know the thing they have out east, Um,

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Speaker 1: I want to get back to Joe sph Milli's instagram

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Speaker 1: handled them out here. But the thing they have autise.

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Speaker 1: You noticed those ones like that that have where there's

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Speaker 1: a huge median, Yeah, with all the mature trees in

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Speaker 1: the middle. Yeah, Like the medians so big you can't see,

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Speaker 1: like if you're going whatever northbound, you can barely see

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Speaker 1: the southbound traffic. When I was writing for Outside, I

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Speaker 1: kept they never let me do it, I know. I

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Speaker 1: kept being like, I want to do a story where

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Speaker 1: I camping them there for a week and you have

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Speaker 1: just someone just slow down on the highway, let me

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Speaker 1: jump out and then and then backpack and camp down

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Speaker 1: those long medians where no one can go because you

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Speaker 1: can't even get out there. You'd find some weird stuff

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Speaker 1: out there. Many. Yeah, that's a good idea, dude. I

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Speaker 1: have seen turkeys out living in those, I was gonna

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Speaker 1: say that no one's gonna get to him. Insurance companies

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Speaker 1: must hate those things. From White Tailed Deer crossing back again,

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Speaker 1: you see some of those, just like, there's no way

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Speaker 1: anybody is messing around in there. I think there's dear

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Speaker 1: living and dying and things, and they're owned by their

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Speaker 1: their own by Department Transportation. State. Yeah, State. They never

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Speaker 1: let me do that story. Uh Joe Uh Surmelli, it's

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Speaker 1: like Joe Dot. It's like Joe Surmellie one thirty eight.

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Speaker 1: Someone check fact check me. And I was saying, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the hell the one thirty eight is.

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Speaker 1: It's based off a Misfits song. Like I saw two

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Speaker 1: riddles at once. Because when we had the Nature's Metal

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Speaker 1: Dude on, I was talking about Joe Surmelli, he's a

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Speaker 1: metal guy, and I was saying, Joe SEMELI likes medal.

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Speaker 1: He said, what kind of metal? I'm I don't know

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Speaker 1: what Telly likes. Joe Dot smelly eight and it's from

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Speaker 1: that Misfits tune I Want thirty eight, which I still

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Speaker 1: don't know what the hell that means. But um ey,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? Anyway? That's why he's Joe dot

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Speaker 1: Surmelli won three eight because the Misfits song one three eight,

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Speaker 1: which if the Nature's Metal guy Rick is listening, he

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Speaker 1: likes that song. Maybe it's a union thing like local

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Speaker 1: Pipe Fitters one thirty eight. Yeah, it's gotta be a cow. Uh,

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Speaker 1: guy wrote in lifelong Resident Wyoming, this is this is

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Speaker 1: a propos This is a propos of of at the

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Speaker 1: time of year being the spring, when um all good

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Speaker 1: men and women hunt turkeys. Uh. I didn't know this

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Speaker 1: about Wyoming. In Wyoming, you can still in the spring

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Speaker 1: season shoot turkeys. Do you know this? In the spring

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Speaker 1: season you can shoot turkeys with a rifle center center fire.

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Speaker 1: Woo no, no, no room fire, no center fire. You

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Speaker 1: can you can shoot turkeys in the spring with a

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Speaker 1: center fire rifle. That changed the game. Huh. It should

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Speaker 1: change the game. It should change the way I feel

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Speaker 1: about I mean, and I wouldn't have changed the way

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Speaker 1: I feel about getting my camis on and sitting next

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Speaker 1: to my decoy, especially you're full strudder. Yeah, some dude

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Speaker 1: a hundred yards away, there's one wind blows and that

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Speaker 1: things starts moving. Yeah, or if coals out there eight

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Speaker 1: yards away, I like think you'd know a live turkey

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Speaker 1: from from a plastic one. But it takes all the

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Speaker 1: fun out of it. Though. The best, the best, you know,

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Speaker 1: the best part about Spring Coller hunt is the interaction

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Speaker 1: to calling them in and yeah, for sure they have

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Speaker 1: they have the game. In Wyoming, Gaming Fish has an

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Speaker 1: open public comment period on these regulations. This guy's thinking

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Speaker 1: that shotguns and you know, shotguns and archery tackle is appropriate.

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Speaker 1: I'll take you an apocryphal ok ahead, Ni, I was

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Speaker 1: just gonna say, have an opinion and why it is

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Speaker 1: that way in Wyoming. I just think it's the wide

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Speaker 1: open spaces like you're probably not hunting turkeys in like

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Speaker 1: the classic turkey hunt country of the eastern United States.

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Speaker 1: They're right hunt creek, valley, bottoms and yeah, just more

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Speaker 1: open country where the same way that where we're sitting

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Speaker 1: now in Michigan, you can't use a center high powered

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Speaker 1: rifle to hunting deer. It's too dense, too many people

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and Wyoming you can stretch it

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Speaker 1: out a little bit. I'll tell you sort of comes

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Speaker 1: out of Florida and you were here. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you remember this, but you might have been not

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Speaker 1: here here but you were present on this trip where

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Speaker 1: someone is explaining about when a sportsman's group in Florida

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Speaker 1: wanted to UM address this issue. A turkey hunting group

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Speaker 1: was worried about rifle use during spring turkey season for

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Speaker 1: safety purposes. Like again, full camo there, flat ground, full

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Speaker 1: camo decoys, jungle like have a tat landscape mimicking animal sounds. Right,

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Speaker 1: you start hearing it on and you start realizing it

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Speaker 1: seems like a way that there's a pathway towards someone

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Speaker 1: getting shot. And they this This Turkey hunting group wanted

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Speaker 1: to address UM what they thought was a real serious liability,

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Speaker 1: which is being able to use rifles for spring turkey.

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Speaker 1: They did not wanted to blow up into a UM

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Speaker 1: firearms rights question. And they had gone through quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of work too. Uh. They had gone through quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of work to explain that the motivation is

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Speaker 1: not a firearms restriction. This has nothing to do with ownership.

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Speaker 1: This is like hunters advocating for other hunters than the

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Speaker 1: spring season should be shotguns to reduce risk. And when

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Speaker 1: it went for I don't know what ultimately happened, but

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Speaker 1: when it went forward, it did not go the way

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Speaker 1: they planned, and it very much became a UM it

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Speaker 1: became like a gun rights question and not a turkey

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Speaker 1: hunting questions. UM, I wonder if you can still now

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Speaker 1: use rifles. And I don't know this. We heard the

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Speaker 1: story a long time ago, and it might even have

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Speaker 1: been what it had already gone on. But either way,

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Speaker 1: I think that also it's like when when people have

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Speaker 1: and I'm as guilty of his anybody not guilty. It's

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Speaker 1: not that you need to be guilty of it. I

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Speaker 1: have that tendency as much as anybody is. When you

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Speaker 1: have the ability to do something and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden you can't, right, you kind of go like, well,

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Speaker 1: what's up with that? Why is that a great question being? Um?

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Speaker 1: In Montana? Right, you can't look like bear hunting in Montana.

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Speaker 1: You know it's not a public safety issue. But you

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Speaker 1: can't bait, you can't use dogs. People are quite okay

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Speaker 1: with that. If you live in a state where you

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Speaker 1: could use dogs and all a sudden you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to use dogs anymore, it encounters a lot friction. But

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Speaker 1: if you're somewhere where something's always been a certain way,

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Speaker 1: it just becomes easier to deal with and So if

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Speaker 1: you're living, you know, in Wyoming, and you got a

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Speaker 1: place and every year you get a turkey with your

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Speaker 1: twenty meg and all sudden someone's like, no, no, now

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Speaker 1: you can picture that. You would, oh for sure be

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Speaker 1: a little miffed. Yeah, especially if I haven't shot anybody

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Speaker 1: super safe, never had an issue, never even came close

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Speaker 1: to having an issue. So why can't I sure I

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Speaker 1: can see other people, but not me? Very natural? This

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Speaker 1: is a good question that came in about turkeys. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was wondering. Let's say, let's say, uh, you had

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Speaker 1: a pet turkey and you tethered him out in the field.

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Speaker 1: Would that be a good decoy? Yeah, my Mike kids, buddy,

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Speaker 1: their their family raises turkeys. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: hell kind. They're like Spanish blacks or something. Spanish. I

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Speaker 1: wanna say, they don't have to be the right color. Dude,

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Speaker 1: Well that's some bitch in Turkey. We went over there

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Speaker 1: to get ours. I brought my boy over there with

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Speaker 1: a little twenty two shorts to shoot turkey that we

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Speaker 1: had they had gifted us. And I was startled, man,

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Speaker 1: I was like, are you sure that sounds a regular wild?

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Speaker 1: It looks like a wild turkey almost if you saw

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Speaker 1: it coming through the woods, dude, you would I got

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Speaker 1: nine out of ten people wouldn't be like, there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with that turkey. We had grown up, we had

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Speaker 1: bronze and white turkeys, and man, they every every morning

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Speaker 1: in the spring there was a flock of wild turkeys

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Speaker 1: hanging out with them. Really yeah, yeah, yeah, this thing

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Speaker 1: was surprised. I mean it was like different, but surprisingly

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like you know, I went over there. I

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Speaker 1: was expecting some big ass white turkey, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like something that looked like a Yeah, the bronze is one.

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Speaker 1: It looks probably the closest, right, you know, it's like brown.

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Speaker 1: Oh I can't remember that ordered one or we ordered

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Speaker 1: a bunch. Actually, Jake's gonna take a few off my hands.

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Speaker 1: But they're they're coming to my house, I believe in

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Speaker 1: July or August. But when you're getting turkeys, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna eat some part and and then I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: learn how to call better from these uh hands. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna keep some hands around. But another another reason I

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Speaker 1: want to have them around is because yeah, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be making some noise all the time. And I hope

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Speaker 1: to attract some wild turkeys. You probably attract grizzly bear

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Speaker 1: here one of me to day that you might have

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Speaker 1: you might have your your that might excite your BlackBerry

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Speaker 1: Johnnie UM. Dr Michael Chamberlain turkey dock wild turkey dock

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Speaker 1: on Instagram. UM. He says, if the bird acted in

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Speaker 1: any way normal, it would be incredibly effective, which is

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Speaker 1: why I don't you'll find a stay where it's legal,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know that. But I'd be stunned if

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Speaker 1: any states actually allow use to live decoys. He said

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Speaker 1: that thing was. That type of thing was the outlawed

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Speaker 1: decades ago around waterfowl hunting, and that used to be

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Speaker 1: a practice put ducks. I wonder what an abnormal turkey

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Speaker 1: acts like a peacock panicked. It would only be effective

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Speaker 1: it was if it acted normal. If it acted panicked.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if it's like constantly like hunches close to

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Speaker 1: the ground and looks over at shoulder and tries to

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Speaker 1: run away. What I had, What I had a handful.

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Speaker 1: I learned a new thing about turkeys, uh, because I

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Speaker 1: think I was able to witness several times over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of days. UM watching deer and turkeys coming

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Speaker 1: uh in a food plot together. That if a deer

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Speaker 1: freaks out and runs away like spooks and runs, jumps

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Speaker 1: and runs whatever, the turkeys are like, they kind of

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Speaker 1: lift their heads up, but I don't really care when

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Speaker 1: that deer goes. Holy smokes man, it takes those turkeys

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Speaker 1: ten minutes to put their heads back down, even if

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Speaker 1: it's off, even if it's off in the distance. And

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Speaker 1: I today watched I heard a dear blow. I watched

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Speaker 1: nine hens all stick their heads up. And I watched

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Speaker 1: two fox squirrels run to a tree, go up the

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Speaker 1: tree and start chattering over a deer blowing close but

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Speaker 1: a deer blowing. And it took those things, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: definitely six minutes to stick their heads back down again.

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Speaker 1: That's valuable observation. People bring up like what do animal

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Speaker 1: you know? How do animals right? And I remember um

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Speaker 1: Ah talking about pine squirrels that that that you know,

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Speaker 1: you get irritate when you're el conning or whatever. Now

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Speaker 1: a pine squirrel sees you, but then you realize that

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Speaker 1: they're also doing it to elk. But then we had

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Speaker 1: a squirrel. Researchers say that pine squirrels are usually doing

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Speaker 1: that to pine squirrels, like, so, I think the animals

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Speaker 1: they don't care at all when pine sus going. Everybody's like,

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Speaker 1: the guy's always doing that. But man, the deer blow

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Speaker 1: is an attention grabber. They they had these researches once

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Speaker 1: took I don't know what the hell they look like,

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Speaker 1: but a vervet monkey and know what that is? Verbt

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Speaker 1: verbet monkey. Mhm. They went to this troop of monkeys

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Speaker 1: and created a well, let me back up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: They found that these monkeys have a variety of warning calls,

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Speaker 1: and they have warning calls that are directed towards a

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Speaker 1: threat on the ground, and they have warning calls that

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Speaker 1: are used for a threat in the air, and there's

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Speaker 1: they're different, and depending on what noise comes out, the

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Speaker 1: animals will respond by clearing the ground or getting up

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Speaker 1: against the trunk and looking up. They were able to

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Speaker 1: record a specific vervet monkey doing his alarm call, and

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Speaker 1: then they started playing it all the time to the

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Speaker 1: troop until they blew that monkey's credibility and people quit

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Speaker 1: paying attention to that monkey. He became the boy who

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Speaker 1: cries wolf. Monkeys quit paying attention to that monkey. They

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Speaker 1: blew his credibility by He's like, oh, there he is again,

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Speaker 1: you know, but there's no problem. He's probably passed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's manipulative, man um. I noticed basically every time crows

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Speaker 1: flew over the decoys, like low, they made a racket.

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Speaker 1: It's like they flew over the food plot, saw that

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Speaker 1: there's decoys and started calling aggressively. Oh, I thought you

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Speaker 1: meant that the turkeys take note of No, the crows

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Speaker 1: is just flying over. Like multiple times I noticed crows

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Speaker 1: flying over silent and they flew over, hit the food

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Speaker 1: plot like look down, saw the decoys and started making Uh.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Warburton, the guy from the hunting public that I

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Speaker 1: got to hunt within Georgia a few weeks back, he

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Speaker 1: actually takes note and when continues to like keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on the crows that are working the zone and

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Speaker 1: if he's like, man, those crows or he'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: gobbler gobbled earlier over there. And if you've noticed those

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Speaker 1: crows have sort of been hanging around over there, they're

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Speaker 1: pestering that turkey and the turkeys that the turkeys, they

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Speaker 1: are with that turkey, Yeah, and like messing with him.

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Speaker 1: M hmm um. That that is, you know, a documented

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Speaker 1: deal with with big game as far as um. You know,

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Speaker 1: scavenger birds alerting predators to large praise sources, especially in

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Speaker 1: the winter, because they're they're going to get a reward

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Speaker 1: if something dies. Um. But I would think that like

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Speaker 1: crows ravens, they probably eat or you know, try to

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Speaker 1: eat young turkey polt or locating nests here and there too.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a there's a real interaction there. You know.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that I had never picked up on because

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Speaker 1: I didn't have such a like such a controlled concentrated,

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Speaker 1: high volume area to observe it, is that we use

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Speaker 1: these turkey coys d S d S. David Smith decoys,

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Speaker 1: and holy sh it, I mean a dude looks at

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Speaker 1: they look at it, freaking turkey turkey looks at and

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Speaker 1: they look like a turkey. So turkeys will come out.

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Speaker 1: I was hunting with for new season with my boy.

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Speaker 1: A turkey came out, A hand came out and bedded

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Speaker 1: down to to preen herself between my strawer and my

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Speaker 1: hand decoy and laid down in the grass and and

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Speaker 1: groomed herself. That as awesome, very contentedly. Um. Last night

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Speaker 1: I had seven hens out, seven real live turkey hens

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Speaker 1: out in a field with my two decoys. Totally bought

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Speaker 1: into it, like totally bought into it. Some deer, and

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Speaker 1: again and again I saw his having deer come out,

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Speaker 1: dear man, this they the minute they stepped clear of

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Speaker 1: the brush, just like something's wrong with that turkey. Like

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Speaker 1: whatever they see is like, like, what they see isn't

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Speaker 1: what I mean, we all know it's not what we see.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely isn't what a turkey sees. They see something

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Speaker 1: and then and they're stomping their foot the minute they

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Speaker 1: stick their nose out. They there's something about the sheen

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Speaker 1: of it. I don't know what they are, not buying it,

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Speaker 1: circling it, stomping at it, trying to get down wind

295
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Speaker 1: that deer or leaving the oir deal come out and

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Speaker 1: right with a deer and be like, don't like that.

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Speaker 1: I would love to know what it is that they Yeah,

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Speaker 1: direction at all, man. It's real freaking turkeys out there,

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Speaker 1: all right. But your decoy doesn't have like a little

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Speaker 1: funk to it from just rubbing against your head. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem it seems visual, man, It seems like you know

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Speaker 1: how like this whole thing that they you know, they

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Speaker 1: don't see what we see, and we know that, and

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Speaker 1: people always trying to tell you what they see, but

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't see what we see. And there's

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Speaker 1: something about the finish on it, the material on it.

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Speaker 1: They see that and they're like yeah, or maybe it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the stillness of them, the lack of movement,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of times there's a

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Speaker 1: real there's a real sort of sense of cure curiosity,

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Speaker 1: like they kind of come towards it. They stumped their

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Speaker 1: feet at it. You know, they do a lot of

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Speaker 1: those sort of like hercuy jerky motions, like trying to

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Speaker 1: see if like maybe when it puts its head away

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Speaker 1: doesn't move, you know, and I think it makes them uneasy,

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Speaker 1: how a little motion there is. Maybe maybe it's just

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Speaker 1: that another thing I saw is certainly a dear decoy

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Speaker 1: that's completely still emotionless. It fools a deer. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: might just be something about it's like body language or

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Speaker 1: another thing. This is a small sample size. I can't

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Speaker 1: say it's for sure yet, but this this is of interest,

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Speaker 1: is that I was watching a fox squirrel today to

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Speaker 1: fox girls that were perched up in trees and theyre

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Speaker 1: was hanging around and when these turkeys came out, don't

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Speaker 1: know what this, I don't know what it's. What does

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Speaker 1: that planet? And up there? It's when are we um

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Speaker 1: on the Why the hell the squirrels want to be

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Speaker 1: out in there? Wheat seeds? Yeah, there might be. I

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Speaker 1: was trying to watch him him by bnoctors. Whatever they're

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Speaker 1: picking up so small you can't see it, but they're

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Speaker 1: picking something up, you know, But for me to you,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell the hell they're grabbing. It's probably seed

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Speaker 1: or I noticed there was there was some maple trees

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Speaker 1: that had the oh, they might be getting the spinners off.

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Speaker 1: When the hens came out, the squirrel came out with

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Speaker 1: them and basically fed underneath them. And where they went,

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Speaker 1: he went, And he didn't go out there until they

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Speaker 1: went out there. I don't know. Extra set eyes. And

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Speaker 1: last night I was sneaking into that same spot and

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Speaker 1: I could see some hens, So I stopped and waited

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Speaker 1: for the hens to pass through. And as they passed through,

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00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: I realized there's a scroll going behind them. It might

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Speaker 1: be just him. It might be just him. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Lost his parents at a young age raised by turkeys. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I did. Uh another quick No, there's two turners in turkey.

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Speaker 1: Know what. I'm sorry all people that turkeys drive people crazy.

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Speaker 1: Apologies at the time, but I took my two kids.

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Speaker 1: They're out there, Yanni, they are out They right into you.

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Speaker 1: They are out there and they're sick of freaking turkeys.

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Speaker 1: It'll end, it'll start back up again. Um. It took

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Speaker 1: my two kids to for youth turkey season Wisconsin. So

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Speaker 1: the state I live in, you have to be ten

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Speaker 1: to hunt turkeys on anything, you have to be ten

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Speaker 1: years old and then you Um, I think I'm mostly

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Speaker 1: getting this right. Uh. Generally states have generally this is

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Speaker 1: this is very much true. States have reduced or eliminated

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Speaker 1: age barriers for hunting because they've gotten into States have

358
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Speaker 1: gotten into these mentor hunting things. So for instance, when

359
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Speaker 1: I was a little boy, you have to be fourteen

360
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Speaker 1: to hunt deer with a gun, twelve to hunt deer

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Speaker 1: with a bow. But you could jump right into doing it.

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Speaker 1: It was like you could jump into not being able

363
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Speaker 1: to do it at all, and then at twelve you

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Speaker 1: could go out by yourself and hunt squirrels. So what

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00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: a lot of states have done they've institute these these

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Speaker 1: mentorship things. So in Montana, for instance, once your kids ten,

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Speaker 1: they can hunt for two years without before they need

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Speaker 1: to do hunter safety. So a kid can hunt for

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Speaker 1: two years about doing hunter safety, but they have to

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Speaker 1: be within arms reach of a mentor. And the mentor

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Speaker 1: has to be a licensed hunter of a certain age

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Speaker 1: twenty one years of age maybe has been licensed certain

373
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Speaker 1: age thing license and good standing, and then they had

374
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Speaker 1: to fill out they have to fill out a mentor form.

375
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Speaker 1: So now my my boy who's ten, um, he was

376
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Speaker 1: able to hunt deer with me last year. Um and

377
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: you know his uncle signed up as his mentor too. Uh.

378
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: Wisconsin has no age restrictions. Um, as long as your mentored.

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Speaker 1: So I took my two kids, my eight year old

380
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Speaker 1: daughter and my ten year old boy two uh Wisconsin

381
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Speaker 1: because they could each hunt. So me and my buddy

382
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: Doug were able to take those two out hunting and

383
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Speaker 1: they each got their They each got their first turkey.

384
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Speaker 1: My daughter got one. She had to shoot it twice,

385
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: but yeah, a little bit of long story, but got

386
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Speaker 1: one with a four ten with a red dot scope,

387
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: which I think is a wonderful way to go for

388
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Speaker 1: little kids. You think she's hooked very much. She asked

389
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Speaker 1: Doug if she could hunt there again next year. That's great.

390
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: She liked it a bunch, liked it a bunch, very cool,

391
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: liked everything about it. But how they handle it getting up,

392
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: they don't care, rose Mary to the other, that's cool. Yeah,

393
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: they're good at getting up. Um long list of things

394
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: that we're always adding to it. Things that will make

395
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: Turkey's gobble. The guy was picking up his son from

396
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: a play date. That's a word that used to not

397
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: be around. What what was the substitution? I don't know.

398
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: When you were a kid, you didn't go on a

399
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: plate eight the hell did you do? You hung out

400
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: with your buddy. But that's why I like, I resisted.

401
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: Like in our household, I don't like my wife. Everybody

402
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: used that. I don't. I don't. My kid even uses

403
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: his dame. I don't use that word. You don't say,

404
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: you know what we should do a range of play date? No,

405
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: I say you're gonna go to your buddy's house, you'd

406
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, for a plate date? Anyways, picking up

407
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: his kid. That word was never ever said until I

408
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: don't recall it either. Yeah, I remember hearing a linguist. Um.

409
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: I was listening to an NPR never interview the linguists

410
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: and the linguists explaining what they do, like what kind

411
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: of thing they work on. And they were and they

412
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: said something interesting. They were giving something that they were

413
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: interested in, and they were saying it wasn't that long ago.

414
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: No waiter or waitress said, are you still working on that?

415
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: But then there it was, and it was everywhere. How

416
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: does that happen? Right right? Good question? And there's a

417
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: lot of things in languages that are like that. You know,

418
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: it's an interesting deal. Clean plate club. Do you guys

419
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: ever say that in your households? Every night? Every night?

420
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: So never, it's a strictly enforced club man. Never never

421
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: heard it anywhere else, never heard it anywhere else. I'm

422
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: working as a busser in high school in this Do

423
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: you remember McKay is on the river? Right? I had

424
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of guns all over the place. Uh, restaurant

425
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: that is no longer a restaurant in Missoula. Um, I'm

426
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: working as a busser in there, and I'm, you know,

427
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: bussing this guy's table and and he said, yeah, I

428
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: didn't think i'd be able to get through it. But

429
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: I remember the Clean Plate Club. That was the first time,

430
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, are we related? Where are you from? Yeah?

431
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: Because you grew up knowing it, but you had never

432
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: heard it. Yeah, right outside of the family, like you

433
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: just like did not exist for whatever reason, never heard it. Yeah.

434
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: Someways this feller picking up his kid from a plate

435
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: just for you, you folks, at home, his kids playing

436
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: with his buddy, and uh, he's gathered his kids bike

437
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: to load it up into his truck and the kickstands

438
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: scrape the concrete driveway lo and behold, Tom cuts out.

439
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: So then he gets the family back out of the truck,

440
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: has scraping against the pavement a whole bunch more eventually

441
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: gets another goal added to the list. It's the list

442
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: um in in the law. So yeah, this one, this

443
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: one kills me, man, This kills me personally. We did

444
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: a we did a piece about it. If you go

445
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: to the meat eater dot com. Um Our our very

446
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: own Sam Longren wrote up a piece on this. Uh

447
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: New Mexico past a bill banning all trapping on public land,

448
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: even live traps, even cage traps, public land, public land

449
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: trapping is now done signing the law. Democratic Governor Grisham

450
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: signing the law past thirty five to thirty four. Who

451
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: all publics all? And you know what, here's the part

452
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: of it gets me this, This is the part of

453
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: this It becomes conversation worthy. The law was nicknamed Roxy's

454
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: Law because in two thousand eighteen a dog was killed

455
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: in an illegally set snare. So a person violating with

456
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: a snare catches and kills a dog. The logical extension

457
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: of that is to ban to make legal trapping illegal.

458
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: The other part about this is law abding citizens. To

459
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: penalize law abding citizens. Here's the other problem. New Mexico

460
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: Fish and Game Commission had just enacted a bunch of

461
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: new limits on trapping methods and equipment. Mandatory certification classes,

462
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: prohibitions on trapping your population centers, prohibitions on trapping near trailheads.

463
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: Never gave the rules, never even gave him a chance

464
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: to take effect and see what the results would be.

465
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: So in terms of all the things that are pursued,

466
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: just just so people get a little bit understanding of this,

467
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: I live near a links recovery zone, okay, and in

468
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: our links recovery zone. You a trap that's big enough

469
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: to catch the links, too big enough to hold and

470
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: catch a links which is smaller than most dogs and

471
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: more fragile than most dogs, has to be by law

472
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: four ft off the ground over a certain size. Even

473
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: if it is four ft off the ground, if it's

474
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: big enough for a links, Again, it also has to

475
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: be in and it's recommended to put it inside an

476
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: enclosed box and over a certain size trap has to

477
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: be in a recessed and closed box. There are a

478
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: lot of things you can try um before you do that.

479
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: And the other part of this draws into question is

480
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: again and again, when you see trapping bands, it's all

481
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: we's it's like dogs, dogs, dogs, And I don't understand

482
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: if if people where does it become like how did

483
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: it become that it's like a god given right to

484
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: have your dog not leashed wherever you want to have

485
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: a dog not leashed. Why isn't it that there's rules

486
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: governing how you manage your dog in certain areas during

487
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: certain times a year. Well, the rule is is your

488
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 1: animal has to be under control, right, that doesn't mean

489
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: a leash. But you know, like Janice's dog is born

490
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: to run and run far beyond eyesight to follow his

491
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: nose and do his job. But Janice has a serious

492
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: investment around his neck in a GPS tracking caller and

493
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: has got a tone on there, and uh, you can

494
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: you can zap him till you can shock him right right,

495
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: But now you just use the tone that says better

496
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: come back or I'm gonna zapp here right um, and

497
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: I would argue that that is in control now and will.

498
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: There're of areas you do have to have them on

499
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: a leash, most wilderness areas. There are some that have exceptions,

500
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: but Solo's got a ticket once. So houndsman can't operate

501
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: in a designated wilderness and some designated wilderness unless you

502
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: wants to track on a leash. I don't know about that,

503
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: because they might have a um exception for you know,

504
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: dogs that are pursuing or you know hunting that must

505
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: be man. Yeah, I've never never heard that rule. I

506
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 1: mean there there's I'm sure there's like some sensitive areas

507
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: like watershed areas and stuff like that where they worry

508
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: about like the it's whatever, what's the one south of

509
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: Vale there? Um, it's the Eagles Nest Wilderness? I think

510
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: it is but yeah, I'm like seven eight miles back,

511
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: not even on a trail, just kind of cruising along

512
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: the hillside, kind of looking at benches and scouting for elk,

513
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: And just got the dog with me and and walk

514
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: into a meadow and there's a force or a stranger.

515
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: He happened to be there because he was looking for

516
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: UM dog owners, uh pasture ground for horses because they

517
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: were in there doing some work on on bridges and

518
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,479
Speaker 1: stuff that they needed to bring in equipment, so they

519
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: needed a spot to graze the horses. So that's what

520
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: he was doing there. I was just cruising along scouting

521
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: for elk. We got to talking and as I'm leaving,

522
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: He's like, by the way, no way. Yeah, God, I've

523
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: never heard of that in my life. Boy, that guy

524
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: could make a serious living walking around the Bob Marshall Yeah,

525
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: righting tickets. Um, well again, I don't think I think

526
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: that it's per wilderness. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Uh Yeah.

527
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: The other thing that bugs bugs me. Okay, so like, um,

528
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: you have a bad actor and illegal trapper, do any

529
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: illegal things that uh then gets this crazy enforcement brought

530
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: down on all legal trappers. Makes no sense to me.

531
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: Um public lands are for the most part by definition,

532
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: not even I mean pretty much ubiquitous land of many

533
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: uses zones. They're set aside for everybody, and that can

534
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: be like everybody from miners to joggers, right like hard

535
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: rock miners, not spandex miners or what am I saying,

536
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: you drinkers miners? There you go, thank you? Um and

537
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: uh God, there is an insane amount of public land

538
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: in New Mexico. I looked it up. Don't have it

539
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: in front of me, but it's over thirty million acres

540
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: of public land in New Mexico. I'll give you the

541
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: couple of reasons why this this tears me up inside. Uh.

542
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak to a state that I know well,

543
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: but just so people can begin to kind of understand.

544
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: Um a little bit about some of the mechanisms, like

545
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: some some of the tools at hand to mitigate conflict

546
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: around trapping and dog stuff. We have setback rules um campgrounds,

547
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: setback rules for roadways, setback rules for designated trails. Sometimes

548
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: where you're go into an area and you can't find

549
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: a place that falls if you've got to roll the

550
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: switchbacks or a trail network to switch backs around, you

551
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: can't find a place to get clean of the setbacks,

552
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: meaning a setback meaning they'll they'll take a trail. You

553
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: go into your rags and says like this trail network.

554
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: You can't do anything within UM the either side of

555
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: the trail. No setting anything UM a type of trap

556
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: that used to get dogs, be like a big body

557
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: grip and traps three conno bears uh in our state

558
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: for instance, that thing has to be half somemer urged.

559
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: You can't set it on dry ground. You take like

560
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: cable restraints UM snares. They have things like the states

561
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: can come in and mandate that has a relaxing lock,

562
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: meaning that the lock doesn't get tighter tighter, tighter, tighter,

563
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: has relaxed. Once it's closed, you put it has to

564
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: have a deer stop on it, so it can only

565
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: close to a certain diameter. UM. They have to have

566
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: breakaway devices on them. Okay, like a certain poundage of

567
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: of pressure breaks the thing away the relaxing thing to

568
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: make it non leasal lethal states will put into things

569
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: that the snare can't have anything around the circle that

570
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: would allow it to become entangled, so that it becomes

571
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: like really like a cable so it functions as an

572
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: animal restraint. There are so many things you can do, UM,

573
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: so many things you can do that that best practices

574
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: that can be implemented. UM. It just seems to me

575
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: like a wildly just a wildly reactionary thing. And I

576
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: don't think it's about dogs. Because this dog, this roxy

577
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: they got killed by the illegal snare, was killed near

578
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: Santa Fe. I'll tell what kills dogs in Santa Fe's coyotes.

579
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: Are these people anti coyote that kills a lot of dogs?

580
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: Kyotes killed dogs in l A. Why don't they anti kyote?

581
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: You're You're trapping knowledge is great for people who want

582
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: to like care an iota enough to actually know about trapping.

583
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: And then that's not the people that are banning trapping, like,

584
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 1: it's not the people who know about trapping or want

585
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: to know about trapping. UM. I guess my point with

586
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: public land is I've hiked all over Hell and gone

587
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: in New Mexico. I've never seen a trapper or a

588
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: dog walker in any right. There's room enough for everybody.

589
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: And if you want to be invested in the fact

590
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: that we have public lands, you need to understand that

591
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: those are set aside for everybody and man, there's a

592
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: lot of things that I do not do that are

593
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: totally legal on public land. And if you're doing those

594
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: in a respectful manner, man, I'll go to bat for you. Now,

595
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: Like there's there's a lot of land to go around

596
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: and to outright band trapping just because you don't want

597
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: to even understand it is just assinine and like all

598
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: of your crazy crud. We could come after, right, your

599
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: big biker, we can come after that. Ban that on

600
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: all public land. Big you know, It's just it's it's

601
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: like foundationally destabilizing to the public land. Ethos powerful dog

602
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 1: lobby man, but even live traps kind of blows my mind.

603
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: That's why it's like it's not God bless Roxy. Roxy

604
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: is being used as a proxy. This is not about Roxy, No,

605
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: it is not. That's a great I've heard plenty of

606
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: stories of horses kicking dogs on the trail. Oh better

607
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: need band horses and bank Um. I did think it

608
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: was funny considering like especially you bring up Santa Fe.

609
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: Santa Fe is a great town to walk around and do.

610
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: Some people watch him the style, the distinctly Southwestern style. Um,

611
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: you talking about ponytails. I'm talking about I'm talking about

612
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: leather goods because we're talking about trapping. Uh. There's a

613
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: decent amount of fur around that town too, which is hilarious. Uh.

614
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, you gotta find a new style Southwest

615
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: if you want a band trapping, get rather all of

616
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: your leather goods. House Bill one seventy two and Vermont

617
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: Vermont House Bill one seventy two would ban all trapping

618
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: other than the licensed wildlife control operator. Ban all trapping.

619
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: Also band hunting bears with us the hounds can't you

620
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: already can't bait in Vermont. So bas sically you'd go like, oh,

621
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: it's no one should bill hunt bears, and you you

622
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: roll those in together. Mm hm. Listen, man, people like

623
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: I am a believer. I am a believer in the

624
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: slippery slope. I think that the slope is there. I

625
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: think that it's slippery. Oh absolutely, man, you know, I mean,

626
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: you just start whittling, especially in these cases, right, you

627
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: just start whittling away the group of people that participate

628
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: in these activities and and give a ship enough about

629
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: it to like go to bad for them if you

630
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: were able to whoever it is that's behind us, Okay,

631
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: and it's not wouldn't be hard to find out. I'm

632
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: guessing h s u S almost certainly by the Maine study,

633
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: United States is almost certainly like involved here. Um, if

634
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: you could sneak into their bedroom and hear what they

635
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: talk about in bed at night, it would be they're

636
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: not even in bed over the phone with their colleagues.

637
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, once we can get this bare

638
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: hound thing taken care of, I'm gonna hang up my spurs,

639
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: m the world will be perfect. Oh sleep, No, it's

640
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: just like they're like, they have it in mind what

641
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: they would like to end, and it's it's it's honey

642
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: and fishing and into some extremes like pet ownership. Weirdly

643
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: like they'd like to see that end. And then you

644
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: look and you'd be like, what are the things we

645
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: can accomplish right now? What are the things we accomplish

646
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: right now? Anything to do with dogs is low hanging

647
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: fruit with traps. If you're a pet owner and you

648
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: support hs us Man, you need to pull your head

649
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: out of your butt and and take another look at

650
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: who you're sending your money to. Not anybody listening to

651
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: this podcast is doing that. I don't know but I

652
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: guarantee you there's folks in Vermont who aren't going to

653
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: write in on the trapping bill. Right, It's like you

654
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: you folks better know your representative as well. Yeah, what

655
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: will Clay Knucolm say, guards gate Man? Is that what

656
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: Clay Newcomb and say when something gets banished? Clay he

657
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: was like he wants to hang a painting of it

658
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: upside down on a ceiling. Its symbolic to him. I

659
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: don't really understand it. All right. We've had a lot

660
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: of people here's a great here's a great tool for folks,

661
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: you folks at home. A lot of people written in, Uh,

662
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: we're always a hobby of ours here at the Meat

663
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: Eater podcast is explain all the weird ways in which

664
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to barter in trade wildlife and people.

665
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: The minute you say, like you can't sell wild game,

666
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: the obvious ques and I'm not I'm not dogging on

667
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: people who ask this question, like like you can't sell venison, right,

668
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't go to my buddy's farm shoot

669
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: a deer, shoot a wild deer, shoot a deer, butcher

670
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: and then and then go down to the farmer's market

671
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: and sell my dear meat, like, you can't very illegal

672
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: to do it. You can't sell wild game um from

673
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: from a food perspective, And so people bring up the

674
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: really logical question, well, why can't you sell it's antlers?

675
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: Why can't you sell taxdermy? Why can you sell his

676
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: tanned hides? Like? How do you make sense of this

677
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: whole thing? Um our our colleague Corey who if you

678
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: write in if you write us an email, UM, and

679
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: you wanted to get red, you got a butter up?

680
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: I would address it to Corey and butter hm up

681
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: a little bit. Corey, calculm's butter him up and your

682
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: your your email get better handled. Uh. He found an

683
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: interesting website. It's an online guide to selling taxidermy. Had

684
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: to state sales and auctions. I think it's answer. It

685
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: helps with some of the helps with some of the legalities.

686
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: Here's a question if say, say I shoot a white

687
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: tailed dough and you're like, I'll take care of that

688
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: for you. I'll cut it up for you, but the

689
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: it's gonna cost me eighty bucks for bags and tape

690
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: or whatever. Is that like if I give you eighty

691
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: dollars to do that just to cover materials you can

692
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: do like you could. You could shoot the deer, give

693
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: me the deer. I could take the deer you gave

694
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: me down and pay for processing. You could shoot a

695
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: deer and drop it off at the processor. I could

696
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: go down and pay the processing and bring the whole

697
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: thing home. But then I can't give you five don't

698
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't give you five bucks for the deer got.

699
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: What would have happened if you said, here's what if

700
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: you reimburse the state. You said, I'm gonna sell you

701
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: the hide. Here's a here's a good one for a

702
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: game ward, and someone right in you shoot it here. Okay,

703
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: you get your dough and you're like, I'll sell you

704
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: that deer hide for a hunter bucks and I'll fill

705
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: the deer in free. Then what happens, Yeah, that's a

706
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: good one. What if what if you're like, I'm like Steve,

707
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: I want I want your deer that you got this year,

708
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: and you said, yep, no problem. Are we role playing

709
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: right now? But the tag costs me seventeen bucks? Right?

710
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: You couldn't do that. In Alaska they have a lot

711
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: of what's called proxy hunting um and it's an interesting system.

712
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: Alaska has proxy hunting where the elderly individuals, say, can

713
00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: buy a tag, they could buy a deer tag or

714
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: by give make you their proxy and you hunt on

715
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 1: their behalf, but the deer goes to them. It's applicable

716
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: in some areas and not applicable another like applicable around

717
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 1: some hunts and not applicable brown others. You can proxy

718
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: hunt my elderly neighbor really wanted a doll sheep this year? Right, Yeah,

719
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it's limited to very it's limited and

720
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm not a subject matter expert, but it's but the

721
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: proxy hunting is limited to more kind of meat and

722
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: potatoes kind of issues, you know. Yeah, I'm guessing it's

723
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: a way to uh, you know, keep the subsistence lifestyle

724
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: alive and well, so you hunt for others really wanted

725
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: a ten foot plus brown bear? Yeahni. Now that you're

726
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 1: reviewing a state sales dot org, are you just as

727
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: you as you give it a cursory inspection? Are you

728
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: buy in it or you feeling like it? Yeah? Yeah,

729
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: most states are just it's just saying any taxidermy may

730
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: be sold, you know, as long as it was obtained legally, etcetera. Etcetera. Uh,

731
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: California now has quite a few paragraphs here, one giant paragraph.

732
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: Alaska had some extra rules. Colorado everything besides bargal bladders,

733
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: bighorn sheep, bigcorn sheep, capes, velvet antlers. Hmm. Connecticut everything

734
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: besides endangered species. Yeah, it's all here a state sales

735
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: dot org. A lot of black bear parts are out

736
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: in some in some states. So there you go. People

737
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: that need to dig in deep and have all kinds

738
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: of crazy questions check that out. But I don't. I

739
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: want to clarify we're not vouching for it. A lot

740
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: of times you look at like the problem I found.

741
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: You try to go to things as they give you

742
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: a state by state roundups, and if you go like

743
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: what are hunters orange laws in all the states? Right?

744
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: The damn laws changed so fast and people don't go

745
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: update the website. Absolutely. You gotta kind of go like

746
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,959
Speaker 1: you want to go to the source. Yeah. I would

747
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: think if you want, if you really come down to

748
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: brass tacks on some item on whether to buy it

749
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: or sell it, I would contact probably US Fish and Wildlife.

750
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: Here's good email. He poses this as of what would

751
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: we do? Um, But I don't really, I don't really

752
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: understand the U. Let me tell you the story. A

753
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: bunch of guys are out jump shooting ducks on a

754
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: neighbor's pond. Okay you with me? So yeah? And they

755
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: have a dog. How do you say this dog? Yeah? Okay,

756
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: they have a draw A lot of folks just referred

757
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: to they have a drawer. They got to retrieve ducks.

758
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: They sneak up on the little pond. A bunch of

759
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: ducks jump up, A couple dozen jump they jump up

760
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: bam by man bowie to get some ducks. The old

761
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: man's yelling that he um, he got one too. Now

762
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: the dog. Here's where the steer story gets weird. The

763
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: dog goes out to retrieve the ducks. The dog gets

764
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: all the ducks, and then he wants to make He

765
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 1: does a triple check to make sure they're not missing anything.

766
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: Nothing got away. As he's walking the edge of the

767
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: pond to check around um because it seemed to be

768
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: some uncertainty about who got what, the dog jumps abedded

769
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: deer a yearly and sets to chasing. The dry fire

770
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: sets the chasing the deer. He's yelling and screaming at

771
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: the um dog and has a shot collar on it,

772
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: but then checks his pockets, realizes that he left the

773
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: controller in the truck. The deer jumps in the pond

774
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: and start swimming. The dog is on top of it,

775
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: fighting the deer, well killing the deer. But here's where

776
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 1: the story gets weird. All of a sudden, the deer

777
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: vanishes vanishes, and they're thinking, well, how could that be, Like,

778
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: how does a deer like a deer can't sink or

779
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: you know, they don't they seem to float kind of,

780
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 1: they float near the surface. Um, they get so curious

781
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: about his body, strips down, jumps in and swims down

782
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: and dives down and realizes this pond is fifteen feet

783
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 1: deep and you can't see squat down in there. Another

784
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: guy jumps in and he these guys are free that

785
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,439
Speaker 1: he's a free diver. Another guy strips down and jumps

786
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: in there and it's so cold he can't figure anything out.

787
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: Comes back later with a scuba tank. They're divers, Abaloni

788
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: divers and whatnot. Comes back later to scuba tank, goes

789
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 1: down the bottom and there's the deer lion dead on

790
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: the bottom of the pond. Uh ship, So they just

791
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: had to know, because they didn't believe that the deer,

792
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: like how it just just sunk so to pull backstraps

793
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, I was gonna say it be

794
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 1: well preserved down there. And he wants to know, what

795
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: would you do if your dog drowned a deer on

796
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: your neighbor's farm Pondum, I don't know. I feel like

797
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: I would think that it was if I drowned a

798
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: deer in my neighbor's farm pond, I would have a conversation.

799
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: I would have to have a conversation with the game warden. Yeah,

800
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: but I'm guessing I don't know if if you remember

801
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, I don't wanna, you know, I

802
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: don't want to. She's anguish enough about this. But a

803
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: friend of mine was walking her dog on a very

804
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: popular how you can Trail? Her dog killed the deer

805
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: killed the pont very popular dog h I can trail?

806
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: She was no reason they should all be on leash.

807
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: She was devastated. Did it happen? But I don't know

808
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: what your obligations are. Yeah, I kind of want to

809
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know. It's like the dog man, Well,

810
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: for sure, but again, you're supposed to have your dog

811
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: under control, and they're certainly not allowed to harass while life.

812
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: And I think the killing wildlife constitutes harassment. Um so

813
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: I think technically, yeah, you're probably you and your dog.

814
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: You're responsible for your dogs, so you're in trouble for that.

815
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: I would think, I mean, I'm no game warden. I

816
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: would think that they would say, cal, I'm guessing this

817
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: is one time thing for snort. You're not gonna let

818
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: that happen anymore, and if it does, then you're gonna

819
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: get a ticket. Yeah. I would imagine that there's gotta

820
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: be some sort of harassment well you know, animal whatever.

821
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: But I mean there's gotta be I mean, I know

822
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: in the state of Montana it's it is legal to

823
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: shoot ah dogs chasing deer. So there's gotta be some

824
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: some way to get a ticket for it too. Do

825
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: snapping turtles bite underwater? We're talking about that because it's

826
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: like a it's a kind of like I grew up

827
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: in snamp and turtle country, as many people do, and

828
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: we mess with snapping turtles a lot and trapped for

829
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: him and stuff, and it was it was said that, uh,

830
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: they won't bite you underwater, and we my dad had

831
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: a very good friend of alcohole, and he would look

832
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: for snapping turtles by feeling blind under undercut banks, just

833
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: feeling his hands till he felt the shell. Then he'd

834
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: feel the shell and you could, you know how they

835
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: have the points on the back of the shell. He

836
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: would find he'd feel the shell and could tell by

837
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: the points on it what way the turtles facing. And

838
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: then he'd entify the back and he just reached under

839
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: and grabbed the tail, and he said that turtles lay

840
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: there the whole time. He'd get the tail and jack

841
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: turtle back out. Uh never got bet No, I'll tell

842
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 1: you a story, quick quick interjection. Um, I was checking

843
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 1: my turtle traps one time and there was a turtle

844
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: that the biggest snap turtle ever caught was had gotten

845
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: the door of the trap messed up and couldn't get in,

846
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: but it was trying so hard to get like poking around,

847
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 1: and somehow he had like I used to make him

848
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: out of like, uh, you know that hog wire with

849
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: the rectangular yeah, and which is stout stuff. Yeah, And

850
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: he had I don't know him or another turtle head.

851
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: Somehow I got the door jacked up. Now that they

852
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: know where the door is. They're just going everywhere and

853
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: eventually it's a funnel and eventually poked their way in

854
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: and they get caught. But he had gotten it jacked

855
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: up where he couldn't get into it. The door was disabled.

856
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: So I see the turtle the trap kind of like bouncing, shaking.

857
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: It's is huge turtle. He was so intent on getting

858
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: to the bait that I was able to paddle up

859
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: in a canoe and grabbed him by the tail. And

860
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: this turtle was so big. I'm not joking. I was

861
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: in high school. Um, I could not get him into

862
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: my canoe, try as I might, And I had the

863
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: hole that's something bit by the tail with kind of

864
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: the tail over the gun of the canoe and one

865
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: handed paddle myself, one handed paddle myself to the bank,

866
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: climb out and dragged that thing up and get the

867
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: back of the truck. And I brought it to another

868
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: commercial turtle guy and he said that was the biggest

869
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: turtle he'd ever seen, the biggest snap turtle you'd ever seen? Nice,

870
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: what did you weigh it? I didn't, I remember him saying,

871
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: I don't want to say because it sounds ridiculous, But

872
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: he bought it. He was a commercial guy and he

873
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: bought the turtle from me. So, uh, what's funny about this?

874
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: This person that rowed in, who's a fisheries there there,

875
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 1: they're a fisheries technician um in North Carolina and they're

876
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: doing the survey works for freshwater muscles. He says, a

877
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: lot of times you're able to do your survey work visually,

878
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: but sometimes you need to do it by feel or

879
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: you're poking around. And he brings up an interesting observation

880
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 1: that that's like I hadn't really thought about his true

881
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: Like he talks about how a lot of clothes, clothing

882
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: right winds up in streams, and he describes that look

883
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: that it gets, you know what he when it gets

884
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: full of sand, like any kind of fabric and stuff

885
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: like land at the bottom of the stream. It gets

886
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: full of sand. He said he has twice felt or

887
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: poked what he thought was a clothing item, but it

888
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: was that weird like you know that the snappers get

889
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: that kind of moss that grows on him and it

890
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: gets like that sandy feeling. And he said, you can

891
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: do all manner. When he finds a turtle doing his

892
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: survey work and that turtle thinks it's hidden. He said,

893
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: you can do all manner of manipulation on that turtle,

894
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: and a lot of times it's hard to get him

895
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: to do anything. And when you get him do anything,

896
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: they want to get away. He says, the minute you

897
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: get that turtle out of the water, he's ready to fight.

898
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: But he said, underwater fighting is not on his mind.

899
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna hide, I'm

900
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: gonna get away. But you get them up out of

901
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: the water and he's like, now I'm fighting. It's just

902
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: so bizarre to me. The animal is designed to bite

903
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: it under water, but just apparently not defensively. But when

904
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: we talked about this before, I brought another thing that

905
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: happened turtle trap is I had a turtle in the

906
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: trap having a vicious battle with a turtle out of

907
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: the trap, and they were definitely biting each other under water.

908
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: So like territoriality, sure, eating, sure, But apparently when you're

909
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: somebody gently caressing your carapace and feeling your points is

910
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: not fighting. That's not worth fighting. They mean fighting words

911
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: in the turn a World. Okay, with Fosburgh waiting patiently,

912
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do is one more one more thing

913
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: to touch off on. We've talked about this too many

914
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: times now. This is probably probably the last corneal dermoid thing.

915
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: The corner. The corneal dermoid fixation began when some people

916
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: started sending in pictures of Harry eyeballs Harry eyeball disease.

917
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: It all happened where a buck got a Harry eyeball disease.

918
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: Each hair, each eyeball turns into hair, put it on Instagram,

919
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: and a guy sent into Kyle Olk. He killed with

920
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: like big, long, like three inch hairs growing out of

921
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: its eyes. The buck that got the corneal dermo dermoids

922
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: eventually went blind and they had to euthanize it like

923
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: a blindeer run around hair his eyeballs full of hair.

924
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: A lot of guys are written in about this. Guy

925
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: wrote in he had a golden retriever has corneal dermoids.

926
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: He thought, for sure the doctor the dog would be like,

927
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, couldn't see, he had a feeling, couldn't seed

928
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: and know what to do. Then you realized that they

929
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: could track an airplane in the sky, and that's the

930
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: first thing to eat him off. That despite it having

931
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: these messed up eyes. Was still pick off, you know, well,

932
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: so visually aware of what's going on. But this guy

933
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: gets into the human element of it, and uh. The

934
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: guy wrote in that there's a wildlife and fisheries guy

935
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: at Clemson University, a student there. He has corneille dermoid's

936
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: in his eye. You're born with it. His aren't harry,

937
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: but they're white. He says he can still see good

938
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: enough to hunt. He's especially sensitive delight. He was surprised

939
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: to hear that affects deer. I was surprised to hear

940
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 1: that affects folks. This other guy wrote in he had

941
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: two boys and they're twins, and he said, the only

942
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: way you could tell these two boys apart is one

943
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: had a real point. He knows. They eventually bring him in.

944
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened they bring him in. He

945
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: had a point, he knows because he had nase. He

946
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: had a nasal dermoid, rec a fairly extensive surgery to

947
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: remove it. It was in the tip of his nose,

948
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: traveled up his naval cavity into his skull, real close

949
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: to his brain. They removed this whole thing, and the

950
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: surgeon said it was shaped like a barbell from having

951
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: traveled up the nasal cavity, a bunch of hair growing

952
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: out of it. Jeez, born with it. The surgeon said.

953
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: They sometimes even have teeth mm hmm. And I remember, man,

954
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: my brother had a girlfriend. Remember and I never really

955
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: thought about this, he had a girlfriend. She was saying

956
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: that they one time I had to have a surgery

957
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: and they pulled out a little ball out of her.

958
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: They head teeth on it. Yep. Yeah, never looked at

959
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: her the same way again, nothing against it. God bless her,

960
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: a little ball full of teeth inside of her. I

961
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: really out your The guy had identical twins and the

962
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: only way you could tell one from the other was

963
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: the Harry eyeballs. I God, that's that's yeah. So they're

964
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: pretty easy to tell apart. Then all right with Fosberg

965
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: from TRC pe wit talk us through, give us like

966
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: an update, d C update. Uh, Well, we're about a

967
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: hundred days into a new administration. Which that's like a

968
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: big that's like a big, big milestone. That's a milestone.

969
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: Do you know where that comes from? I don't understand

970
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: how that came to be a milestone. Just a nice

971
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: round number. Yeah, I think right now, it's a round

972
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: number as something has been used for many many, you know,

973
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: presidencies in a row to sort of gauge initial for

974
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: at step in priorities. So I think, you know it's

975
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: but I don't know where it came from originally. Do

976
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: you feel that a hundred days is fair just from

977
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: your observations of home, because I mean it's it's really

978
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: symbolism at this point. Is you know what you see

979
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: what the administration's top priorities are. You will see the

980
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: general reaction that that gets from the general public as

981
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: well as from Congress. Uh, you know in Congress, you

982
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: know again you have the top things tend to be

983
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: the first things they deal with, the most important, the

984
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: most visible, the highest priorities for whatever parties in power.

985
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: So I think it's you know, the way we tend

986
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: to look at it with administration is first hundred days,

987
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: first year, and then four years, and you know, you

988
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: can sort of break down any sort of set of

989
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: priorities in those three buckets. And that's when we we

990
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: did transition plans for both Biden as well as Trump too,

991
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: and we laid out our priorities and all in those

992
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: three sets when you do transition plans. I remember seeing

993
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: transition plans because you have to draw up right, It's

994
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: like when the Super Bowl, Right, they make T shirts

995
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: for each win. Um, you have to drop up transition obviously,

996
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: to be prepared no matter what's gonna happen. Yeah, we

997
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: got them to the campaigns, you know, well before the

998
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: election too. Or you send it to the camp Yeah,

999
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: we send them both, send them to the campaigns to

1000
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: really lay out what we think our community's priorities are.

1001
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,959
Speaker 1: But how different are the two letters. Oh, they're pretty

1002
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: different because you know, we're well, I mean a lot

1003
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: of its phraseology. I mean, we knew, for example, it

1004
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: was gonna be Trump to we weren't gonna lead with

1005
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: climate change. You know, we would talk about you know variety.

1006
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: We still talk about farm bill programs. We would talk

1007
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: about things that directly affect climate, but we certainly changed

1008
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: the way we phrase that. And we also think about

1009
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, things like you know, the meat and potato, wildlife.

1010
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: Stuff like migration corridors would bubble up to like number

1011
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: one because you know, they started it. They have pride

1012
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: of ownership in it. You know, they can do things

1013
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: to expand it. So it's you know, I think, you know,

1014
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: and then you know there are certain things were just

1015
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: off the table, you know, with for example, the Trump too,

1016
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: that we knew it weren't going to be worth pushing for,

1017
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: and why I hit our heads against the wall about it.

1018
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: So we're gonna do things that we think we can achieve,

1019
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: and you know, so it was different, and we have

1020
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: this sort of a second term of continuing administration, it's

1021
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: not going to be as long. So for example, I

1022
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: think when we sent to the Trump team was like

1023
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: eighty pages or sixty page ages and the one that

1024
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: went to the Biden team was probably an additional thirty

1025
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: or forty page because you already had a bunch of

1026
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: You've already been laid for four years with the groundwork

1027
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 1: with dexistration. Yeah, so I want to get to where

1028
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: we're at now, but I want to talk a little

1029
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: bit about where we uh, a little bit about where

1030
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: we'd been. You mentioned that the Trump administration had a

1031
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: lot of ownership over the migration corridor, and Bernhardt was

1032
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: heavily and that actually came out Secretary Interior was very heavily,

1033
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: and that came out with Zincio was still you know,

1034
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: Secretary that was first dropped Secretary Order three three six two,

1035
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: which basically directed the Western states to identify their top

1036
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: three big game migration corridors and it limited it to elk, mule, deer,

1037
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: and pronghorn and uh then you know it directed the

1038
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 1: federal agencies to coordinate with the states to conserve those areas.

1039
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a really good idea. They put

1040
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: some money behind it, National Fisher Wildie Foundation came in

1041
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: with some money for it, and it's the kind of

1042
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: thing that we wanted to make sure if it wasn't,

1043
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, Trump, if Biden got elected, that they didn't

1044
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: immediately come in and just say, you know, Trump did,

1045
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: this must be But that's what that's what I'm wondering about.

1046
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna add that that exact question,

1047
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: are you do you do a lot of work to

1048
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,439
Speaker 1: try to hand things off and be like, no matter

1049
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: how you feel about your predecessor, yeah, this was this

1050
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: is the right thing here. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean I

1051
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: think we would define success not by how far the

1052
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: pendulum swings each time, but by things are actually durable

1053
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: that you know, withstand changes in political wins. And I

1054
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: think migration corridors is you know, a classic example of that.

1055
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: You know, it makes sense on a number of different

1056
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: levels from you know, if you're a big game hunter,

1057
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: which was obviously a priority of the Trump administration, you know,

1058
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: something that's really important. If you're in favor of biodiversity

1059
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: and letting animals adapt to a change in climate, you've

1060
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 1: got to be supportive of this, you know. So it's

1061
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: again depends on how you look at it, but it's

1062
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: something that should not be a partisan improven it hasn't been.

1063
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: I mean Deb Holland and her confirmation hearings for Secretary

1064
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: of the Interior talked about how important it was. So

1065
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: I think that we've succeeded in that just making it

1066
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: sure that people didn't think it was a political issue,

1067
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: but it made sense regardless of administration. And there were

1068
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: certain things that Trump guys wanted to do they never

1069
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: got to do. They proposed adding wild sheep and moose

1070
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: to that and then got a bunch of blowback from

1071
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,439
Speaker 1: agricultural producers, so took that off the table. Yeah, we'd

1072
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: love to see the order expanded to that. We'd like

1073
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: to see more money you know that could go to

1074
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: for example, private landowners who are really an important part

1075
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: of preserving migration corridors. How do you get them to

1076
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: make it in their interest as opposed to them being

1077
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: the burden of these animals that go through their property.

1078
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: For them to come in and in retrofit fences to

1079
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, compensate them for the elk that come through

1080
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: and eat their crops, you know, things like that, but

1081
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: make them an important part of the solution. So I

1082
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: think that Trump guys, you know, it was a great idea,

1083
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: but they had just really gotten started on this and

1084
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: ideally it gets expanded and works even better, you know

1085
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: now that we're in the next four years. So with

1086
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: the first hundred days, uh about up or up? What?

1087
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: What's your what are your impressions? Is it just completely

1088
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: new set of priorities and you've got to kind of

1089
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: go in a different direction if you want to get

1090
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: anything done. Yeah, you know, I think that's it's not

1091
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 1: completely new set of priorities in some areas, and that's

1092
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 1: a good example of the corridors. But I think it's

1093
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the emphasis is going to

1094
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 1: be changed and as supposed to be making that scary,

1095
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: we want to make that an opportunity for example climate. Uh,

1096
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, we have we've been working in the last

1097
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: couple of years to get our community and we've had

1098
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: forty two different groups and a letter to Congress saying, Congress,

1099
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: you need to engage in climate and part of the

1100
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: solution needs to be land and water side of it. Sequestration,

1101
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: resilience adaptation, which is all important for a climate in

1102
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: terms of sucking carbon out of the air, making our

1103
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: coastal communities more resilient, cleaning water, but it's also great

1104
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: for fishing, wildlife, and explain that. So the way we

1105
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 1: work as we're a partnership of we have sixty normal

1106
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: partners partners within the umbrella of TRSP, the Theatore Roosevelt

1107
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: Conservation Partnership, and you know, we're a coalition that willing,

1108
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, so we don't force anybody to take a

1109
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 1: position on anything, but we lay out what we think

1110
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: makes some sense. And uh, we had about two years

1111
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: of working on climate and we put together this five

1112
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: page statement or six page statement that went to Congress

1113
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: that laid out our principles. We you know, created a

1114
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: website so the folks everyone can understand what it is

1115
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: we want and then you know, we asked groups to

1116
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,839
Speaker 1: join on this, and forty one groups within the TRSP

1117
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: partnership joined on that letter that went to Congress and

1118
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: have their names and logos on the website which people

1119
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 1: can see at TRSP dot org. When you're doing something

1120
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: like that, I know we're straining a little bit from

1121
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. When you're putting that together, are

1122
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: you finding that there are people who, uh, don't get

1123
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: back to you or they say like, don't put my

1124
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: name on that. There was there were some people that

1125
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 1: just you know, they didn't want to have discussion, and

1126
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 1: you know it just weren't really engaged a lot of

1127
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: others that they coming up from a very particular viewpoint.

1128
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: You know, if you're Pheasists forever, they really want to

1129
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: see this is a vehicle to expand the conservation reserve program.

1130
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: If you're Duck's Unlimited, you're gonna want to see it

1131
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,879
Speaker 1: as a way to preserve more wellands, restore or walans.

1132
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 1: So every group comes to it with their own lens,

1133
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: and so the danger of any one of these is

1134
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: that becomes this unwieldy beast because every single priority is

1135
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: put in there, and the fact that it's only five

1136
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: and a half pages or whatever it was it went in.

1137
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: It was actually a triumph because we kept that into

1138
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 1: certain key areas and you know, I think we accommodated concerns.

1139
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: You know, any of the groups that were there. Now,

1140
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: other groups like you know, d you didn't sign it,

1141
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: but they they're doing their own. One Boone and Crockett

1142
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: didn't sign it, but they did their own as well.

1143
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: That it was. Honestly, it's stronger than the one we have,

1144
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, so Nature Conservancy is a formal partner. They

1145
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: did their own. So the forty one signed with us,

1146
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: sent that letter to Congress. Those are the folks that

1147
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: just collaborate on this effort. It's not a full snapshot

1148
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: of everybody that's dealing with climate. And that doesn't mean

1149
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: that a third of those groups aren't interested. They might

1150
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: have been there. They have their own because they're handling

1151
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: for themselves. Yeah, so or they're just you know, they

1152
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 1: don't really see that in a wheelhouse like you know,

1153
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 1: a f l c i O is a formal partner

1154
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: of ours. You know, they're they're dealing with climate in

1155
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of different ways. You know that, So

1156
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: this isn't something they were going to sign on too.

1157
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: But in terms of overall impressions of the first hundred days,

1158
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think we're optimistic. I think that

1159
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: they have you know, pretty good people put in. I

1160
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 1: look it over at Partner of Agriculture, tom Ville Sack,

1161
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it was Secretary of the Interior before

1162
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: Governor of Iowa, Senator from Iowa, you know, knows this

1163
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: stuff really well. He brought in Robert Bonnie to oversee

1164
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, basically the Farm Service Agency RCS as well

1165
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 1: as the Forest Service. Robert is an old hand on this.

1166
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 1: He was on our board for a while, hardcore hunter fisherman,

1167
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 1: and you know, very pragmatic about how do we get

1168
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: these farm bill programs working better than they have. You know,

1169
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: we've lost a ton of acres out of c RP

1170
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: in the last four years just because you know, Sonny

1171
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 1: Perdu and the Trumpet Partner Agriculture, it wasn't a priority.

1172
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 1: They'd rather just sort of send people checks, you know,

1173
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: in response to the terrify fight with China, then actually

1174
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: ask them to do something with that money. Whereas you know,

1175
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: we want to see, you know, instead of just sending

1176
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: thirty billion dollars out to agricultural producers just to make

1177
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 1: them hold in a tough economic time. You know, I

1178
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: think things like Conservation Reserve program where they actually were

1179
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: doing something. They're setting aside marginal lands, they're improving it

1180
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: for a wild life, for water quality, and those are

1181
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: the things I think we think make a ton of sense.

1182
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: And I think we're gonna you know, the folks that

1183
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 1: Department Agriculture now will agree. So we already know that

1184
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 1: plans are underway to amend the current sign up for

1185
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: c RP to make it more lucrative. So you think

1186
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: that'll go down, that'll go down. We'll see, we'll see more,

1187
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: you know, a CRP program that makes more sense for farmers. Yeah,

1188
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: and then I think, you know, Robert and the team

1189
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 1: that the USDA are working on this right now, we

1190
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what's going to look like, but they

1191
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: have recognized they have a real problem and they're expecting

1192
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: another If they don't do something, another to three million

1193
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:17,560
Speaker 1: acros will move out of the program this year, so

1194
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: they have to do something. My first experience with was CRP,

1195
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: like really understanding what it what it is, was watching

1196
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 1: um the end of those first round rounds of contracts

1197
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: in in my like hunting lifetime and watching all this

1198
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 1: prairie and sagebrush get torn up in eastern Montana and

1199
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 1: seeing an immediate effect on antelope specifically, and just going

1200
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:52,719
Speaker 1: from like more antelope and and truly like fewer hunters

1201
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 1: because people were so dispersed across eastern Montana. Um, it

1202
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: was like the good old days of antelope by far

1203
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,799
Speaker 1: and away in it and it just man, it tanked

1204
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: and you could just see it. Yeah. Yeah, And this

1205
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: is the same story in Dakota's a pheasant. Uh, you know,

1206
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,560
Speaker 1: duck populations ride different places. So I mean this c

1207
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: RP is a program that benefits you know, sportsmen in

1208
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: a variety of different ways. But I mean, you know,

1209
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: we see it as you know, if you want to

1210
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: deal with climate, and you want to if you think

1211
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: about climate and the overall solution to climate, you can

1212
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 1: stop emitting today. But to get ahead, you're gonna have

1213
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 1: to suck a bunch of carbon out of the atmosphere.

1214
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: In the best way to do that is through natural

1215
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: mechanisms like forests, and you know you're putting in cover

1216
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: crops instead of having bare ground over the winter. You

1217
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: have things like that that are if you go to

1218
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: eastern shore of Maryland cover crops, everybody doesn't. You go

1219
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 1: to Iowa, nobody doesn't. And so we just need to

1220
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,839
Speaker 1: give create some incentives. It's not bad for the producers,

1221
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: it's just not the way they've been doing things. So

1222
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: given a cent of to do that sort of work,

1223
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: which is gonna suck out a certain amount of carbon

1224
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: overall about it, you know, they're saying about of the solution,

1225
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: are these natural things that naturally suck carbon out of

1226
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 1: the atmosphere. You know, we talk a lot about, you know,

1227
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 1: sort of the poor state of a lot of the

1228
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: national forests in the National Forest System that haven't been

1229
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: logged at our monoculture, their beetle infested, they're waiting to

1230
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 1: blow up and you know burn. And if we you know,

1231
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: if you're serious about deal a climate, you're gonna go

1232
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 1: in there and you're gonna do some selective harvest. You're

1233
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: gonna do some areas. You're gonna restore some of those

1234
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: areas that are pretty degraded now. And that's going to

1235
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: help wildlife and sportsmen because you'll start developing that mosaic

1236
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 1: of habitats that you really want. I mean, we have roadless,

1237
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: we have wilderness, but we also want to have areas

1238
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: that are actively managed. And you know that is far better,

1239
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, than you know, a stagnant forest. I was

1240
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 1: with a group of other you know, conservation you know,

1241
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: CEO S and Louisiana, talking with a bunch of the

1242
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: private timberland folks and Dave Tenny, who runs the National

1243
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: Association of Forest Owners. You know, later statistic that managed forests,

1244
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 1: you know, private managed forests are seven times take out

1245
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 1: seven times more carbon than their counterparts on the national force.

1246
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 1: And uh and I would argue too that you know,

1247
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 1: they're probably better for if you want that mosaic of

1248
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 1: habitats and some oral accessional force, it's better for wildlife too. Now,

1249
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: nobody wants to return to the old days of spotted

1250
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 1: elves and clear cuts and salmon watersheds and all the rest.

1251
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: But there's a happy median in there some place. Well

1252
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 1: for sure. You know, a friend of mine in the

1253
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:34,679
Speaker 1: Forest Service, he'd uh had a stretch of like seven

1254
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: years attempting to do a prescribe prescribe burning an area,

1255
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, and it just like through you know, you

1256
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: gotta meet a lot of criteria to get a burn going.

1257
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: And um, it's even more more strict in the on

1258
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: the government side of things. So yeah, and it's just

1259
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: there's still a cottage industry out there are folks who

1260
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: just litigate any active management on national force. And you

1261
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: know that's we're gonna have to deal with that. We're

1262
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: gonna have to make a little bit easier to actually

1263
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: cut word to do prescribe burns. And obviously if you

1264
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: do a small prescribe burn, you're heading off that catastrophic

1265
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: burn that we see in California in other places. And

1266
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 1: this summer is gonna be bad, I mean moisture levels

1267
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 1: across the wester allowsy. So you know, we need to

1268
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,759
Speaker 1: get on top of this. And Robert Bonnie at USCA

1269
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 1: understands that. And when we fix the fire funding fiasco

1270
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 1: at the Forest Service, when until I guess about five

1271
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: years ago, every time you know, there was a catastrophic

1272
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: wildfire fighting that came out of the forests versus core budget,

1273
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,280
Speaker 1: Congress changed that to create an emergency account like we

1274
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:45,920
Speaker 1: do for all other natural disasters tornadoes, hurricanes, and you know,

1275
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: because you know that change has been made it gives

1276
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: the Forest Service about a half million, half billion dollars

1277
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:54,760
Speaker 1: annually in additional revenue is to actually go and do

1278
01:16:54,880 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: habitat management for wildlife, for fire prevention, to remove invasive ecs. So,

1279
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 1: you know, part of the challenge that Robert is gonna

1280
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 1: be facing now at U. S t A Is getting

1281
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 1: that up to speed, getting that money on the ground,

1282
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 1: which is that it sounds like a big number, but

1283
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 1: is it that that's like they can do a lot

1284
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:16,679
Speaker 1: with that. They can do a lot with that. Yeah,

1285
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: and there's and it's not that you know, they know

1286
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 1: it all goes out to commercial sale. I mean, the

1287
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 1: Turkey Federation and you know Mule Deer Foundation have doing

1288
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: stewardship contracting where they actually go in and do the work.

1289
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: You know, they got some money to do it, but

1290
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 1: it's not the forester is doing this stuff. So you know,

1291
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: Turkey Federation has done remarkable projects around the country using

1292
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: the Stewardship Contracting authority to go in and improve habitat. Yeah.

1293
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 1: So I think there are different models of how you

1294
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: can do it, but I think there's a general consensus

1295
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,879
Speaker 1: on the science community is certainly and the sportsmen's community

1296
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,640
Speaker 1: that you know, we need more active management a lot

1297
01:17:51,720 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 1: of places, and that dovetails perfectly with clinton solution. I

1298
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 1: know you don't speak for them at all, but takes

1299
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: take a group like National Wild Turkey Federation. Have they

1300
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: are they articulating specifically a desire to address climate Yes,

1301
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: they hadn't before. And it's because it pisses people off. Man. Yeah,

1302
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's the word has been so politicized and

1303
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 1: you know, people just retreating to their camps. And you know,

1304
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 1: Becky Humphreys, who's I think, you know, terrific CEO. And

1305
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: she's on my board with you, Steve. I mean, she's

1306
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, understands us. She comes from a science background,

1307
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: and she's not going to talk to a membership about

1308
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 1: climate solu. She's just gonna talk about active management. She's

1309
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: going to talk about, you know, doubling the size of

1310
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: the conservation programs in the Farm Bill, which is what

1311
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: we're calling for in our statement to Congress. So instead

1312
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 1: of six billion dollars a year in conservation, kicked that

1313
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: up somewhere around twelve billion. And that's not all c

1314
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 1: r P, it's you know, the Regional Conservation Partnership Program,

1315
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 1: it's equip it's a bunch of other good stuff that

1316
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 1: the farm bill does, you know, whatever makes the most

1317
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 1: sentence in a given region. But we want more land

1318
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:14,000
Speaker 1: in conservation and less land, you know, being especially in

1319
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 1: marginal habitats being converted to row crops. Yeah, you can

1320
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:20,919
Speaker 1: tell a real good story about what natural prairie grasses

1321
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 1: do or native prairie grasses do. For poulse Right, you

1322
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 1: grow a lot of birds well, and then if you know,

1323
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 1: you do a soil segment on those you look how

1324
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,839
Speaker 1: deep those roots are in native grasses versus introduced grasses,

1325
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: and you know that's where all that carbon is is

1326
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: going down in those deep root systems. You look at

1327
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 1: soil carbon maps the US. The most important area is

1328
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 1: that prairie pothole region. There is a ton of carbon

1329
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: in those soils and every time they get plowed up,

1330
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:54,600
Speaker 1: that's getting released. So we ought to be restoring the

1331
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 1: areas we've already trashed as well as protecting the rest

1332
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: of that prairie pothole region. And if you care about climate,

1333
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: and if you care about natural infrastructure, down water, downstream

1334
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: water quality, you want to protect those areas. So move

1335
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 1: over from in terms of the Hunter day picture and

1336
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 1: who they've gotten placed from the Department of Agriculture to Interior.

1337
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: It's like, what are your what are your sort of

1338
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: gut a gut impressions about the nominee. Well, you know,

1339
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 1: I didn't know. She's now a confirmed Deb Holland, who

1340
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: was a congresswoman from New Mexico. She has only had

1341
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 1: one term in Congress. Um, but she's, as she likes

1342
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 1: to say, she's a thirty fifth generation New Mexican, you know,

1343
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: Native American. Her family grew up eating venison um. You know.

1344
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 1: So the challenge that she's going to face is, you know,

1345
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: it's a really political, a really controversial, complicated agency. You

1346
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: have everything from Bureau of Indian Affairs to the US

1347
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service to the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management.

1348
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: There was a lot of things that fall underneath the

1349
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: Department of the Interior. I didn't know that the Bureau

1350
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: of Indian Affairs is still an Interior Oh yeah, I mean,

1351
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: if there's an we don't do Indian issues. But that

1352
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: is if there is one agency they could use some help,

1353
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 1: and one people that could use some help is the

1354
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: Native American community. I mean, when I worked in Congress,

1355
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 1: I spent a fair bit of time on reservations in

1356
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 1: South Dakota, and you know, the average person just has

1357
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,560
Speaker 1: no idea of you know, how lousy it is, you

1358
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: know currently. So I mean some you know tribes have

1359
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:27,800
Speaker 1: got it figured out and do a really good job

1360
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 1: and have plenty of money, but others just have. I

1361
01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: when we were trying to get running waters is back

1362
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 1: in the nineties, you know, into you know, some of

1363
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,599
Speaker 1: the Sioux reservations in South Dakota who didn't have running water,

1364
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,680
Speaker 1: do you you know. So we've seen the Biden administration

1365
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: UM kind of reverse a lot of Trump era rules. Um,

1366
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 1: do you think we're gonna see um deb Holland kind

1367
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 1: of reinstate or try to get back a bunch of

1368
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: that monument ground. Yeah, I think she's I think she

1369
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: was justin in Utah visiting Bears Ears and doing her

1370
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 1: own listening tour. So I suspect you're going to see

1371
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 1: those you know bears ears in Grand staircase, you know,

1372
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: re established the original for there may be some you

1373
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: know tweaks here and there, but no those will get

1374
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, pushed back. There's a marine monument off of

1375
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: New England that was taken away. I think you'll get

1376
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: that back. So I think there will be but I

1377
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: think they'll open up the bears ears thing again. Huh yea,

1378
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: So no, I think they'll be doing that. I think

1379
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: the bigger issues are gonna be things like oil and

1380
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 1: gas development on federal lands. I mean, when she was

1381
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, congresswoman, she had called for, you know, ending

1382
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: oil and gas development on public lands. Or maybe it

1383
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: was during the campaign, but you know it was, but

1384
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:49,639
Speaker 1: was friendly to wind and solar on public Oh sure,

1385
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: and you know that's you know she you know, that's

1386
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, sort of the coming. You know, she has

1387
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 1: a fairly liberal district in New Mexico. You know that's

1388
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,720
Speaker 1: the you know, feeling that renewable entered is better than

1389
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: you know, oil and gas. And I would agree with that.

1390
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 1: But the problem is that you can't just turn off

1391
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,200
Speaker 1: the spick and on oil and gas. I mean, it's

1392
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,320
Speaker 1: gonna be around for a while. And yeah, you know,

1393
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:12,600
Speaker 1: my my trucks only a year old. I'm gonna be

1394
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 1: driving it for a while. And uh, you know the

1395
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: issue isn't you know where it comes from his demand

1396
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 1: on long term because you could shut down oil and

1397
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: gas development on public lands, And all you're really doing

1398
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 1: is screwing states like New Mexico, which have a lot

1399
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: of oil and gas on public lands, and shifting all

1400
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 1: that over to Texas or to North Dakota, which don't

1401
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,560
Speaker 1: have a ton of public lands. So you're you're not

1402
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 1: really solving a problem, You're just screwing, you know, certain areas.

1403
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 1: I think a much more thoughtful approach is you deal

1404
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,600
Speaker 1: with the you know, you deal with the issues of

1405
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 1: methane leakage. You just make the oil and gas development

1406
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: of public lands better than it has been. You get

1407
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:52,799
Speaker 1: smarter about where you're going to sit oil and gas development,

1408
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: because there's also a ton of areas have already been leased.

1409
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 1: I mean that you know the cats out there, you

1410
01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 1: know the door, the cattle's you know, the horses out

1411
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 1: of the barn. If you want an analogy, you want

1412
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: to use. So again, even if you were to say

1413
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 1: no new leasing starting today, there are still a ton

1414
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. So the issue really is, you know,

1415
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 1: how do we do it better? And when you know,

1416
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 1: like Ken Styles are with Secretary of the Interior under Obama,

1417
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: they put together something called Master Lease Planning, which was

1418
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 1: before you develop an area and this could be oil

1419
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 1: and gas, it could be solar, it could be wind.

1420
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:24,799
Speaker 1: You did look at a big area and you decide

1421
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 1: the areas where you can have development, where you never

1422
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: want to have development, where you can consolidate roads, pipelines,

1423
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 1: just to be much smarter about the development as opposed

1424
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:35,920
Speaker 1: to Yeah, when you know Trump came in, it was

1425
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: under the and Zinc you would talk about energy dominance.

1426
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 1: The idea was energy development. It's going to take precedent

1427
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 1: over every other use on public lands, and they're not.

1428
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:46,560
Speaker 1: We're not going to get in this way wherever it

1429
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: wants to go. Well, I mean that was more of

1430
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:52,639
Speaker 1: a political stance, but it just creates problems because you're

1431
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 1: inviting controversy when you're offering leases in core stage Graph's

1432
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:01,560
Speaker 1: habitat in the middle of migration orders. You know. So

1433
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:05,360
Speaker 1: I think our senses and this is probably probably will

1434
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: shake out when an interior is there will continue to

1435
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 1: be oil and gas development. We've just done very differently

1436
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,520
Speaker 1: that has in the past. Uh. Do you have concerns

1437
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: about working with Holland or do you Are you optimistic

1438
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: about it? Oh? I'm optimistic. I mean, uh, I've I've

1439
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: spent very little time with her. She'd been really good

1440
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 1: on our issues, but I just didn't know her personally.

1441
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: But then during the yeah, when she got nominated, and

1442
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:31,880
Speaker 1: then until her you know, basically approval by the Senate,

1443
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: I think I had three different meetings with her and

1444
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: it was you know, and she was great. I mean,

1445
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 1: she didn't know a ton, she didn't pretend to know

1446
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: a ton, but she took copious notes and every time

1447
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 1: we met with her she was better than last time.

1448
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:45,640
Speaker 1: She had understood what we were talking about. She was

1449
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,719
Speaker 1: able to prioritize it. I think she valued our community

1450
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 1: as an important ally and her confirmation, and we're very

1451
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: happy to give her the benefit of doubt and work

1452
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 1: with her. The guy that just brought in is the

1453
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 1: number two at Interior. He still has to be confirmed.

1454
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 1: Tommy Boo Drow. He was in the obaministration. Good guy,

1455
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, solid conservation credentials. Knows the department well. So

1456
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 1: she's been smart and putting people and keep positions around

1457
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 1: there who really know how that department works, because she

1458
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,640
Speaker 1: doesn't mean this is she's brand new there. And you know,

1459
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:20,840
Speaker 1: Zinkie had that same issue that Held had a trouble

1460
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: being effective within department because he was complete outsider, and

1461
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason he brought Dave Bernhard in,

1462
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 1: who had been a solicitor during the Bush administration. Knew

1463
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 1: the agency, and things, you know, improved dramatically, you know,

1464
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 1: the Trump administration when Berner came in because he was

1465
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 1: a stabilizing, steadying hand. He understood what the agency could

1466
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 1: and couldn't do. Remember when you know, after he got

1467
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: picked to be Secretary of the Interior, we had a conversation.

1468
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,720
Speaker 1: I mentioned energy anomous. He said, you will never hear

1469
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:54,120
Speaker 1: me say that again because it's not legal. We are

1470
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 1: a multiple use agency. We have to we can't just

1471
01:26:57,560 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 1: arbitrarily pick one of these things and make it more

1472
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 1: importan and everything else. I came to like him quite

1473
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: a bit. Um. I mean, there's plenty of things that

1474
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 1: that I didn't agree with him about, but I did

1475
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:16,200
Speaker 1: like and valued there uh stance on expanding access and

1476
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 1: doing some other things that rolling back some things like

1477
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:22,559
Speaker 1: there was things a thing in Alaska I found particularly

1478
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 1: I somewhere they stripped the state of certain management practice

1479
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 1: abilities if they wanted to do it. I thought that

1480
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: was a bogus play and they moved that back. But

1481
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: do you do you think that in the new administration

1482
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: there's going to be like we will sportsman's access be

1483
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 1: a thing that ever comes out of their mouths? You think? So?

1484
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:42,720
Speaker 1: I think, you know, they were I got a call

1485
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:44,600
Speaker 1: from Interior that they were going to I don't know

1486
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: if they've done it yet or whether they were going

1487
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:47,680
Speaker 1: to do it you know, shortly, but they're going to

1488
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:53,000
Speaker 1: open up another ninety you know, areas within the refuge system. Yeah,

1489
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 1: I was going there and that was the fraight you're

1490
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,800
Speaker 1: gonna tell me that that would be rolled back? And

1491
01:27:57,880 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 1: that was one of the things we made sure that

1492
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 1: this this is something that Obama did, This is something

1493
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:04,640
Speaker 1: that Trump did, This is something you guys ought to do.

1494
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 1: And it's you know a lot of it is not

1495
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: you know, sort of rocket science. It's you know, their

1496
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 1: areas are closed for no good reason and have been historically,

1497
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 1: and nobody really knows why. I just never been open.

1498
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 1: And and then the other issue was, and I give

1499
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 1: the Trump guys a lot of credit on this, you

1500
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: may have your particular rules on the refuge that are

1501
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: totally different than next door on state Land or general

1502
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 1: statewide legs, and that may make sense, but if you're

1503
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 1: gonna make them different, have a reason for them being different.

1504
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:34,439
Speaker 1: Don't just have them different for being different, because it

1505
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 1: just makes it harder for all of us to participate.

1506
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 1: To know what the rules are. So that you know,

1507
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:42,640
Speaker 1: Trump guys did a good job of basically conforming the

1508
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,639
Speaker 1: refuge rules with the state rules, and I hope that continues.

1509
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 1: M hmm. We're earlier, we're discussing New Mexico's new trapping band. Uh,

1510
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:58,639
Speaker 1: I understand, Like sitting here, I understand perfectly well, Um,

1511
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 1: why that it's not t RCPs fight, Okay, Like I

1512
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you why it's not, and

1513
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 1: then I want to question you why it's not a

1514
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:16,480
Speaker 1: little bit because um, it's a hunter angler based conservation organization.

1515
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 1: And I know that you can't get bogged down in

1516
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 1: in the constant legislation and referendums about what you would

1517
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 1: call method of take issues, so like how the particulars

1518
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 1: of how people access game. But at a point, if

1519
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:35,760
Speaker 1: rights continuously get stripped down, it will become an existential

1520
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:40,639
Speaker 1: thing for you. True. So the way you know, first

1521
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 1: we're we focused on federal policy and not state policy.

1522
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: So that's an easy out as to why we wouldn't

1523
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 1: engage in something like that. Second, you know, we've always,

1524
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 1: you know, tend to defer to the states in terms

1525
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:54,720
Speaker 1: of fishing game management because the states have always had

1526
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 1: primary jurisdiction, and you know, we don't want to sort

1527
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: of I'd like just keep Congress out of it as

1528
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,560
Speaker 1: much as humanly possible in terms of every now and

1529
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,280
Speaker 1: then you have something like you John Tester and Mike

1530
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 1: Simpson having to deal with the wolf issue and a

1531
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:12,839
Speaker 1: greater Yellowstone. But Congress should not be in the business

1532
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 1: of dictating fish and wildlife management. That should be left

1533
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:19,559
Speaker 1: to the professionals within the states. And now if states

1534
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 1: sta start going, you know, very much down a bad path,

1535
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: then yeah, maybe we have to rethink, Yeah, our stance.

1536
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 1: Maybe we do have to engage in some of those

1537
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 1: But because I agree with you, But if you got

1538
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 1: to your point where you thought, wow, it really is

1539
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 1: a slippery slope and we've split off the slope, I

1540
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:41,560
Speaker 1: could just I'm not inviting you to do it, but

1541
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 1: I but I think I've expressed this to you in

1542
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: the past. I have a small amount of like I

1543
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: have a teensy bit of frustration with wildlife groups who

1544
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 1: I feel could probably could perhaps be impactful around defending

1545
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 1: hunting rights, angling rights, trapping right, that they might be

1546
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 1: impactful because it would be an unexpected voice for wildlife,

1547
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:10,760
Speaker 1: like hunter based environmental groups, hunter based wildlife groups, to

1548
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 1: say like, this matters to our constituency, this matters to

1549
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:18,560
Speaker 1: our supporters. You need to understand that this is this

1550
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:21,679
Speaker 1: is upsetting to us because I feel like it would

1551
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:24,640
Speaker 1: help us defeat some of these things that some of

1552
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 1: these losses we're having. Yeah, and I think that you know,

1553
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:29,840
Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of our community will engage and

1554
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: those you know, the different groups that do engage in

1555
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:36,879
Speaker 1: those state fights, from you know, maybe Boone and Crockett

1556
01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 1: on a you know, sort of intellectual level, to the

1557
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:43,439
Speaker 1: Association of state Fish and Wildlife agencies, to any individual

1558
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 1: group that happens to be a strong in a particular area.

1559
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:48,840
Speaker 1: But it just hasn't been our issue in the past.

1560
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 1: I mean, if we can be supportive to our partners

1561
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 1: who are engaged in these things, we will, and it

1562
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 1: may at some point maybe we will have to recalculate

1563
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,280
Speaker 1: and engage in some of these but we have enough

1564
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,600
Speaker 1: stuff going on in Congress right now and on the

1565
01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: federal side that we're not looking for any you know,

1566
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 1: new fights. No again, man, I totally understand. You can't

1567
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 1: be everything everybody. If you just were like a drunk

1568
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 1: guy in a bar throwing wild punches, right, you get

1569
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 1: a bottle, you get the bout as far so I

1570
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 1: understand it. But I think it's just you know, helpful

1571
01:32:20,160 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 1: to have. Yeah, yeah, And I think that there, you know,

1572
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:25,599
Speaker 1: there's some allocation issues we will engage in. I mean

1573
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:29,320
Speaker 1: issue like you know, girlfriend snapper, Yeah, which you know

1574
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 1: is you know, you could argue with sort of you know,

1575
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 1: feeds versus the state and a very parochial issue down there,

1576
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 1: but it had much broader implications about how we managed

1577
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:42,200
Speaker 1: recreational fisheries and federal waters. So we would we engaged

1578
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:47,960
Speaker 1: on that issue. Meaning, uh, just like to to express

1579
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 1: differently that you engage in in a state issue if

1580
01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 1: you feel that it's something that has potential implications that

1581
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 1: would occur around the nation in a similar some sort

1582
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 1: of direct federal next us. And in that one, it

1583
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:04,640
Speaker 1: was about federal fisheries management. And essentially the solution is

1584
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 1: let the states take over and which we did. They

1585
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 1: say they took over red snapper management and read there

1586
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 1: are a lot more red snapper out there than you

1587
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 1: know people used to think, there we are, and that

1588
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: fishery is very well managed right now. And so that worked.

1589
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:20,599
Speaker 1: But that was a case where you know, we were

1590
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:25,280
Speaker 1: arguing about state versus federal jurisdiction on that one. Generally

1591
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:28,519
Speaker 1: we don't engage checked your federal box. But I'll give

1592
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 1: you another example of a place where we have engaged

1593
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 1: of state issues, like when the Trump administration basically rolled

1594
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:36,080
Speaker 1: back Clean Water Act and you know, it took out

1595
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:38,160
Speaker 1: half the wetlands in the country and you know, a

1596
01:33:38,240 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 1: large percentage of headwater streams from jurisdiction. It was very

1597
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 1: clear that Congress wasn't gonna deal with the issue. We're

1598
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:46,160
Speaker 1: gon we're going to get any place the administration. So

1599
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 1: we helped, like in Pennsylvania, an effort to increase their

1600
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:53,479
Speaker 1: water quality standards, recognizing that that was where the game

1601
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:54,720
Speaker 1: was going to be played. And if we could help

1602
01:33:54,720 --> 01:33:58,720
Speaker 1: a couple of states essentially developed prototypes about how they

1603
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 1: can protect their own waters, we could bypass you know,

1604
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 1: the federal legislation until or federal problem until at some

1605
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,880
Speaker 1: point Congress wanted to deal with this issue. So again

1606
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:10,760
Speaker 1: that was an area where I felt that there was

1607
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 1: we can get into it because you know, this is

1608
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 1: relevant given the lack of federal engagement on an important issue.

1609
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:19,600
Speaker 1: That is, you know, not just Pennsylvania. If they have

1610
01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 1: shitty water quality in Pennsylvania, that means the Chesapeake Bay suffers.

1611
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:25,600
Speaker 1: So you know, if we can create some prototypes and

1612
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 1: states like Pennsylvania about how they can protect their own

1613
01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:31,559
Speaker 1: streams better, then that's you know, worth putting out there.

1614
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:33,920
Speaker 1: What do you think is going to happen? This is

1615
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:35,519
Speaker 1: my last one for you right now. What do you

1616
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: think is going to happen with And you've got to

1617
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,439
Speaker 1: kind of explain a little bit too. Now that the

1618
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 1: administrations have switched, what do you think it's going to

1619
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 1: happen around the tong is roleless stuff. I think that

1620
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 1: will get again go back to you know, the previous

1621
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 1: roadless rule, you know, so those areas will get protected

1622
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 1: again and again we would like to see you know,

1623
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 1: some sort of you know, not have this flip back

1624
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 1: and forth every four years who's in power. So I

1625
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:06,160
Speaker 1: think we would be you know, perfectly happy to sort

1626
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 1: of do what we did with Idaho or Colorado state

1627
01:35:08,479 --> 01:35:12,240
Speaker 1: specific roadless rules, and maybe a blanket roadless protection and

1628
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:14,639
Speaker 1: tongas may not be perfect. Maybe there are areas where

1629
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:16,960
Speaker 1: you want to have, you know, some changes to that.

1630
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: Let's have that discussion. Um. But opening the entire area

1631
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:25,920
Speaker 1: to development was not a good solution, I do have.

1632
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 1: I lied it was one more pebble mine. Yeah, it's

1633
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 1: kind of in its death throws wriothing on the ground

1634
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:37,800
Speaker 1: right now. Is someone gonna, you know, well and put

1635
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:40,439
Speaker 1: put one behind its ear. That's certainly what we want

1636
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:43,000
Speaker 1: to have happened there. You know. Obviously the Pebble partnership

1637
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 1: is appealing. You know, it's denial of a permit. So

1638
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 1: this is still actually alive from an administrative standpoint. Now,

1639
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:54,800
Speaker 1: I do not expect the Biden administration corp of Engineers

1640
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 1: to reverse the Trump administration to say you go for it,

1641
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: you got a permit, you can develop this mine. But

1642
01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 1: long term, yeah, we've got to figure out a way

1643
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:06,080
Speaker 1: to permanently protect that area. And we've been in quiet

1644
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 1: discussions with Center, Murkowski and Sullivan about you know, what

1645
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:14,160
Speaker 1: would it take to you know, it could be a

1646
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 1: land swap that creates in Upper Bristol Bay National Wildlife Refuge,

1647
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: which in theory it would still allow you can do

1648
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:24,599
Speaker 1: mining on refuges, but you can't do it if it's

1649
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:28,160
Speaker 1: gonna impact salmon um, you know, is that one of

1650
01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:31,519
Speaker 1: the solutions. Is there a state solution, you know, states

1651
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 1: protecting those lands? You know, I think that Alaska is

1652
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 1: probably gonna want, you know, a chunk of flesh to

1653
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:39,560
Speaker 1: sort of take development off the table, because that's the

1654
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 1: way Alaska works. So they're gonna want to either pile

1655
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:45,720
Speaker 1: the money or they're gonna want to you know, land

1656
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 1: transfer someplace where they can actually make money. You know,

1657
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 1: long term, you can't. I mean, you can't blame them.

1658
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 1: I agree. I know you're saying that's how Alaska works,

1659
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:54,639
Speaker 1: but that's how a lot of places work. Yeah. Yeah,

1660
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 1: Alaska is just got it down to sort of in

1661
01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:05,040
Speaker 1: our the They have a lot of opportunities, and there's

1662
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: just so much federal land up there. I mean, you know,

1663
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:09,680
Speaker 1: you have to be able to develop some of it

1664
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:13,800
Speaker 1: if you're gonna ach a living in Alaska. And there

1665
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 1: are certain areas that are far better for development than

1666
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:20,439
Speaker 1: you know, the Pebble Mine area, that's for sure. Okay,

1667
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 1: any you want to add. I just say there's a

1668
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 1: couple of other things to keep your eyes on as

1669
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:30,240
Speaker 1: you move forward. Thirty by thirty initiative that was talked

1670
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 1: about during the campaigns that was in the executive order.

1671
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 1: Not nothing to do with the ESPN. No, nothing to

1672
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:39,960
Speaker 1: do with that, which I always love those, But this is, uh,

1673
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 1: this is actually you know, this came out internationally and

1674
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:45,600
Speaker 1: it was around the biodiversity crisis, the idea of protecting

1675
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:51,400
Speaker 1: of the world's lands and waters by and uh, you know,

1676
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 1: the how you do that is, you know, the challenge.

1677
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,920
Speaker 1: So you know, the Biden administration, you know, during the

1678
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 1: campaign talked about it, and the initial Climate Executive Order

1679
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:03,960
Speaker 1: came out of the White House they mentioned you know

1680
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,840
Speaker 1: this thirty by thirty. Now it can go one of

1681
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:12,240
Speaker 1: two ways. It could become a preservationist protect strategy where

1682
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:15,560
Speaker 1: you're drawing lines on maps and not allowing any activity.

1683
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 1: And there's obviously the wilderness. You know, the hardcore environmental

1684
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:23,120
Speaker 1: advocates are pushing in that direction. What the case we're

1685
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:25,400
Speaker 1: trying to make is you've got to think much more

1686
01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 1: broadly than that. First of all, it ought to include

1687
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:32,040
Speaker 1: restoration because drawing a line around something that's degraded doesn't

1688
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 1: help you anyway. So there ought to be a restoration focus.

1689
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,439
Speaker 1: We need to engage private landowners. If a land is

1690
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 1: under a conservation easement, but you know somebody is still

1691
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: cutting timber on it or making a doing agriculture, my mind,

1692
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 1: that's conserved. It's never gonna have Walmart there. It's never

1693
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:54,160
Speaker 1: gonna have condos if it's got a permanent conservation easement.

1694
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:58,280
Speaker 1: If you have you know, working for ESTs someplace again

1695
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:01,320
Speaker 1: that are under conservation easement, there are certify sustainable by

1696
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:05,639
Speaker 1: a third party FSC s f I, the two outside

1697
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:10,559
Speaker 1: forest certifying bodies, my mind, that aut account is protected. Again,

1698
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 1: it's never going to get developed. And if your goal

1699
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:17,919
Speaker 1: is climate or biodiversity, as we talked about that mosaic

1700
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:22,519
Speaker 1: of habitats, having some young habitat is a good thing, um,

1701
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, so we've been arguing that define. You know,

1702
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:30,040
Speaker 1: to find this broadly and use the word conserve and

1703
01:39:30,160 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 1: not protect, because you instead of making this scary, say

1704
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 1: to western landowner who thinks you're going to go in

1705
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,040
Speaker 1: and lock up their land, they've become part of the solution.

1706
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: You know, you can incentivise them to protect an area,

1707
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 1: to put a conservation he has been on it, to

1708
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:48,560
Speaker 1: plant things that you improve soil health, to deal with

1709
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,800
Speaker 1: carbon still make a living, and I just think that

1710
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 1: makes a lot more sense. So when the executive order

1711
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 1: came out of the White House, uh yeah, we won

1712
01:39:56,560 --> 01:40:00,040
Speaker 1: round one. It had the word conserve in their and

1713
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 1: not protect, which was important symbolically. It also laid out

1714
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 1: a stakeholder process that includes private landowners to talk about

1715
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 1: how are we going to define this and what's going

1716
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:12,160
Speaker 1: to go into it. And that process will probably be

1717
01:40:12,280 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 1: rolled out by the Interior Department in the next week

1718
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:17,599
Speaker 1: or so. I don't know what's going to be in there,

1719
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:19,960
Speaker 1: but it's definitely gonna be worth something to watch because

1720
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:23,000
Speaker 1: it can blow up and be here thrown out and

1721
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:25,639
Speaker 1: perceived as a land grab and the top down approach,

1722
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 1: or it could be aspirational and you know, has a

1723
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:31,679
Speaker 1: lot of folks behind it trying to make it work,

1724
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:35,800
Speaker 1: including private landowners. The goal is do you know what

1725
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:40,560
Speaker 1: percentage is protected? Again, it depends on how you define that.

1726
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:43,080
Speaker 1: You know. The USGS did some sort of you know

1727
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:45,800
Speaker 1: study a while back, and they said that twelve of

1728
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:49,680
Speaker 1: the nation's lands are currently protected but they only use

1729
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:54,040
Speaker 1: the definition of I think national parks, wilderness areas, national monuments,

1730
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:57,439
Speaker 1: you know, the hardest core protection that we have. They didn't,

1731
01:40:57,520 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, they did not look at conservation easements on

1732
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,920
Speaker 1: private lands. You know, they did not look at you know,

1733
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:07,080
Speaker 1: like regular Forest service lands that are well managed but

1734
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:09,320
Speaker 1: are not quite protected in that sense because there may

1735
01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:12,439
Speaker 1: still be timber harvest on them. I'd imagine if you're

1736
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:14,200
Speaker 1: going to do that right, you'd want to find a

1737
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:19,759
Speaker 1: way to um begin to consider even like recreational properties,

1738
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:21,840
Speaker 1: like the more we're sitting on right now. Sure that

1739
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:25,920
Speaker 1: a recreate that that a recreational property would have UM

1740
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 1: and I know there's conservation easements stuff, but that they

1741
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:32,800
Speaker 1: would have pathways. Would it would have pathways to become

1742
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 1: that what I would are you even you know, like

1743
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,200
Speaker 1: a CRP, which maybe are a ten or twenty year contract.

1744
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:40,120
Speaker 1: I mean, we want as much land and that type

1745
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 1: thing as we can get. That's not going to get developed,

1746
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:45,000
Speaker 1: we know for ten or twenty years. And uh, let's

1747
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:47,040
Speaker 1: count that, you know, so let's you know, air on

1748
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:49,120
Speaker 1: the side of counting more as supposed to lesson if

1749
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:51,960
Speaker 1: we have more than protected, great, well that's what. I

1750
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:53,960
Speaker 1: feel like they raised the goalposts, they got the car

1751
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:57,040
Speaker 1: in front of the horse. I feel like you'd have

1752
01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 1: to get your hands around. Uh, there should be like

1753
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:05,680
Speaker 1: gold Star, Okay, gold Star being wilderness areas, Like how

1754
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:09,120
Speaker 1: many gold star lands do we have right down to

1755
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:14,560
Speaker 1: bronze Star? And maybe that catches CRP lands. Add that

1756
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,600
Speaker 1: up and then say like are we satisfied with that

1757
01:42:17,800 --> 01:42:19,519
Speaker 1: or should it be more? I would argue that we'd

1758
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,800
Speaker 1: probably want to increase it. But to just throw out

1759
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:23,760
Speaker 1: some wild ass number when no one even though it

1760
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:28,040
Speaker 1: came out from the international perspective, you're thinking about sub

1761
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:32,479
Speaker 1: Saharan Africa, South America and the Amazon or Southeast Asia,

1762
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:36,680
Speaker 1: a lot of these really rich biodversity areas that you

1763
01:42:36,720 --> 01:42:39,040
Speaker 1: know are not protected at all. I get it. I

1764
01:42:39,160 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 1: get why they're laying out these, you know, sort of

1765
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:44,600
Speaker 1: what it seems like very ambitious goals for us. You know,

1766
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:46,680
Speaker 1: we've got a ton of protected land. You know, we

1767
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 1: have six D forty million acres of public lands in

1768
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:52,360
Speaker 1: this country that are never getting developed. Now you may

1769
01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:55,639
Speaker 1: argue that, you know, having a solar array or oil

1770
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 1: and gas development or timber harvest's development. Okay, we can

1771
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:02,960
Speaker 1: have that argument those of three real different things, because

1772
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 1: I would go no, no, yes, right, yeah. So I

1773
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:10,800
Speaker 1: think that you know, again, it depends on how you

1774
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:12,720
Speaker 1: define this stuff. And that's a great conversation to have.

1775
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,120
Speaker 1: Let's have that conversation. And I think that we win

1776
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 1: on the merits. When you're talking about biodiversity and carbon

1777
01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm thinking sixty doesn't have the ring. I think they

1778
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 1: did it because the ring, right, Oh yeah, no, absolutely,

1779
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 1: But I think you have to consider private lands and

1780
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: and you know, recreational properties. When you look at the

1781
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:38,280
Speaker 1: amount of private ground that that is, you know, on

1782
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:45,320
Speaker 1: the tax record, like dedicated to recreation specifically wildlife. Um m,

1783
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 1: that that outshines. That makes that six million acres look

1784
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:55,120
Speaker 1: like million acres. We got a lot more in private

1785
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 1: because that approach is also saying that this this thirty

1786
01:43:58,760 --> 01:44:00,240
Speaker 1: and I know you're not like sitting here, you're like

1787
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:02,880
Speaker 1: ready to take bullets for the thirty by thirty, but

1788
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:06,040
Speaker 1: that this thirty will all happen to be west of

1789
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:10,439
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River. No, yeah, it's gotta be, you know,

1790
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 1: that's it's got to engage private land, I think, and

1791
01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 1: I think there's beginning to be broad agreement on that

1792
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:18,639
Speaker 1: even within the Biden White House, so which is good.

1793
01:44:18,880 --> 01:44:20,920
Speaker 1: And then you know, then we can think about things

1794
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:22,679
Speaker 1: like a farm bill and how that can be used

1795
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,839
Speaker 1: properties like this where it may not even be under conservation.

1796
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 1: He has been and probably would need to be to

1797
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 1: be counted. But you know, given the work that's been done,

1798
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 1: the bio diversity we have here, you know, the myriads

1799
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:35,439
Speaker 1: of habitats, you know, this is exactly what you want.

1800
01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:38,040
Speaker 1: And we ought to be figure out ways that we

1801
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:40,639
Speaker 1: can encourage folks like the guy who wants this land

1802
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 1: to enroll, you know, be a part of that accounting. Yeah,

1803
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:48,880
Speaker 1: because there's I mean, you know, we talked about them

1804
01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:53,120
Speaker 1: all the time, but like Doug Durren's place, man, I mean,

1805
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, they got their families, got a few hundred

1806
01:44:56,320 --> 01:44:58,519
Speaker 1: acres of land, but I mean they they obsessed over

1807
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:01,960
Speaker 1: every square inch of it. You know what's gonna look

1808
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:03,439
Speaker 1: like in the future. What we need to do now,

1809
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 1: how can we keep it the way it is? How

1810
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:08,080
Speaker 1: do we not break it up? You know? And I

1811
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:10,200
Speaker 1: think that even the habitat side, I mean, let's make

1812
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:14,360
Speaker 1: sure we have some snags for woods, and it's all

1813
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:17,080
Speaker 1: happening there and then you imagine that um, and I

1814
01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:19,760
Speaker 1: don't I don't have any proposals, but if we really

1815
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:24,160
Speaker 1: wanted to get serious about this thing, um, that there

1816
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 1: would be more of a sort of I guess some

1817
01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 1: really smart person would come up with some expression, like

1818
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:42,400
Speaker 1: like a more sort of elastic uh, expression of like

1819
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:47,519
Speaker 1: the nation's goodwill towards that consideration and activity. That it's

1820
01:45:47,560 --> 01:45:50,680
Speaker 1: not that that if a family is thinking about it

1821
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:53,920
Speaker 1: in a certain way, it's not just like one person's death,

1822
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:59,400
Speaker 1: Like it's not one person's death away from development, you know.

1823
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:01,760
Speaker 1: And I know we have mechanisms in place, but I

1824
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:04,680
Speaker 1: know they're like they're sometimes ownerous and and hard for

1825
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:05,920
Speaker 1: people to deal with. And I don't know. I don't

1826
01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:08,320
Speaker 1: have the answers, but I imagine that we have any

1827
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:11,320
Speaker 1: There's just a I'm just thinking about anoxially think about this,

1828
01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 1: this this percentage thing. We have an enormous amount of

1829
01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:17,880
Speaker 1: land in this country. That's that people are thinking about,

1830
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:21,519
Speaker 1: right for not just like waiting for it to hit

1831
01:46:21,560 --> 01:46:24,160
Speaker 1: a certain dollar figures so they can cash out and

1832
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:27,720
Speaker 1: and turn into houses. They're like, man, I'd love for

1833
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:29,920
Speaker 1: it to stay like this. Well, we haven't even talked

1834
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:31,880
Speaker 1: about the ocean side too, and that's really what it

1835
01:46:31,960 --> 01:46:34,920
Speaker 1: got the you know, the hunting and fishing community kind

1836
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:37,479
Speaker 1: of spooked on this whole thing to start with, because

1837
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:40,280
Speaker 1: there was a process back in California, you know, a

1838
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:42,960
Speaker 1: couple of decades ago that set up marine protected areas

1839
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,800
Speaker 1: off of California that did not allow recreational fishing and

1840
01:46:47,000 --> 01:46:49,720
Speaker 1: even well managed recreational fishing like catch and release something

1841
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:53,320
Speaker 1: like that, and uh, you know, and that was so

1842
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:55,759
Speaker 1: when thirty by thirty I was starting to be talked about,

1843
01:46:55,840 --> 01:46:58,040
Speaker 1: and there was you know, there was a bill in

1844
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:01,040
Speaker 1: California to you know, to be the first state to

1845
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:04,880
Speaker 1: adapt thirty by thirty and it died in the California

1846
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:09,000
Speaker 1: legislature because the sponsors you know, basically would not put

1847
01:47:09,080 --> 01:47:12,519
Speaker 1: in writing that recreational fishing should be allowed. So that

1848
01:47:12,600 --> 01:47:15,639
Speaker 1: ought to be a warning sign to the preservationist community

1849
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:19,120
Speaker 1: that you know, let's be sensible here. We want people

1850
01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:22,080
Speaker 1: to get on the water, to enjoy it, to be

1851
01:47:22,160 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 1: a part of it, because you know, they're gonna be

1852
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 1: the you know, the future generation that's going to be

1853
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 1: there to protect this thing. They're not they're the best

1854
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:30,880
Speaker 1: stewards out there where you know, you and I going

1855
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:33,120
Speaker 1: out there fishing and catching a couple of fish for dinner.

1856
01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:36,000
Speaker 1: That's not the threat. The threat or bottom trolls that

1857
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 1: are trashing the habitat. It's ocean dumping, it's ocean mining.

1858
01:47:40,080 --> 01:47:41,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's that sort of stuff that ought to

1859
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 1: be you know, out of bounds in a protected area,

1860
01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:47,559
Speaker 1: not you know, us going out there and maybe killing

1861
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:49,640
Speaker 1: a couple of fish to take home for dinner. As

1862
01:47:49,640 --> 01:47:51,560
Speaker 1: well as people want to feel good about themselves, but

1863
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:53,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel like they're like totally screwing

1864
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 1: themselves to get there. Yeah, exactly. And plus it's just

1865
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, if you're just you're create division and you

1866
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:02,519
Speaker 1: create dissension where there shouldn't be any if you did

1867
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,840
Speaker 1: something like the has no biological basis, like banning recreational

1868
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:09,120
Speaker 1: fishing area the ocean. Now, if it's a spawning area

1869
01:48:09,160 --> 01:48:11,200
Speaker 1: and there's a good biological reas, gonna do it, fine,

1870
01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 1: do it. There's a there's a every year we take

1871
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:18,320
Speaker 1: our kids down to the area in Baja Peninsula in

1872
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 1: there's a small closed area there and it's uh, they

1873
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 1: really go out of their way to express the value

1874
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 1: of that closed area. So the signage around this this

1875
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:38,920
Speaker 1: marine this marine preserve. The signage has calculations of the

1876
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:47,320
Speaker 1: number of fish caught by small commercial harvesters thanks to

1877
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: the closed area because it becomes a fish producing and

1878
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:55,759
Speaker 1: it's like very it's like it's articulated in many ways

1879
01:48:55,880 --> 01:48:58,960
Speaker 1: in many places that that's what this is, you know,

1880
01:48:59,200 --> 01:49:01,080
Speaker 1: it's you could see that there's a little bit of

1881
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:05,880
Speaker 1: a psychological game there. Um, don't be pissed, Like what

1882
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:10,000
Speaker 1: you're harvesting comes from here. And that's I think a

1883
01:49:10,200 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: very reasonable way to look at it, because obviously that

1884
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:14,439
Speaker 1: they've done some science there. They know the key or

1885
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:17,799
Speaker 1: spawning areas, you know, and they've made a public education

1886
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,640
Speaker 1: outreach a program around it. But before you just go

1887
01:49:20,760 --> 01:49:22,880
Speaker 1: off and zone off huge areas of the ocean just

1888
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:26,920
Speaker 1: so you can meet some mystical goal, let's be thoughtful

1889
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:32,799
Speaker 1: about this stuff. You guys, got any more questions? Nope?

1890
01:49:34,360 --> 01:49:37,360
Speaker 1: Good job? What kel kel seriously thought about whether he

1891
01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:38,680
Speaker 1: had a question or not. He didn't just say no,

1892
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 1: I did, like what direction? Can we start a new direction?

1893
01:49:44,160 --> 01:49:46,040
Speaker 1: And all certain? You know, No, you did a great job.

1894
01:49:46,120 --> 01:49:48,840
Speaker 1: That was great, all right, guess always good talking to you.

1895
01:49:49,120 --> 01:49:52,679
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. With again with Fosburg. The Theodore

1896
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 1: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership can be phone at TRCP dot org.

1897
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:01,120
Speaker 1: Right on, send him a big old check, thank you?

1898
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:05,720
Speaker 1: What'll write? What'll write you? Thank you? Note many right

1899
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 1: your reminder next year. He might convinit you if checks

1900
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:16,800
Speaker 1: begging up? All right? Thanks with um. Remember when we

1901
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:20,200
Speaker 1: used to do closing thoughts. I don't even remember what

1902
01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:21,439
Speaker 1: we used to call him? Is that what we call

1903
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:25,000
Speaker 1: the closers? Closers? I just I still believe in them,

1904
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:27,200
Speaker 1: especially got to the point where people would just I

1905
01:50:27,240 --> 01:50:28,640
Speaker 1: don't know. I just thought that people would know what

1906
01:50:28,680 --> 01:50:31,720
Speaker 1: to say him. Yeah that and if you've been going

1907
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:35,840
Speaker 1: for two hours, then you know, closing thoughts just got

1908
01:50:35,880 --> 01:50:38,439
Speaker 1: another half an hour. But I have one today to

1909
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:43,880
Speaker 1: actually one I found. I saw a tree. There's an

1910
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:47,560
Speaker 1: old dead snag. Speaking of snags, I was near the

1911
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:50,439
Speaker 1: power line and I see an old dead snag and

1912
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:55,240
Speaker 1: about I don't know, head high. There's a plastic collar

1913
01:50:56,479 --> 01:51:03,120
Speaker 1: on this dead snag. This doesn't ring a bell. I

1914
01:51:03,240 --> 01:51:06,880
Speaker 1: mentioned it to guy. The guy says, yeah, your buddy

1915
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:11,640
Speaker 1: Steve a dog collar. Oh yeah, I'm doing this with

1916
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:13,640
Speaker 1: my arms. I know, but I don't know, man, I

1917
01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:15,240
Speaker 1: thought you meant the tree was like that and the

1918
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 1: snag was smaller and there was a plastic. Yeah, because

1919
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:21,680
Speaker 1: we've been talking about that too. Oh yeah, we did

1920
01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:24,040
Speaker 1: tell a nasty story about a dog collar. Yeah, that's

1921
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:25,840
Speaker 1: why I thought you meant a play. I got you,

1922
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:29,559
Speaker 1: UM tell me about this plastic. I was walking along

1923
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:33,559
Speaker 1: with guy uh and saw a wood duck come out

1924
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:36,920
Speaker 1: of that tree, and I said, you ought to wrap

1925
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:39,400
Speaker 1: that tree and something so the rack the raccoons, of

1926
01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:42,760
Speaker 1: which there are plenty, um, so the raccoons can't get

1927
01:51:42,800 --> 01:51:46,040
Speaker 1: up there and kill the wood ducks. And the way

1928
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:48,800
Speaker 1: I remember the story is he was already planning on

1929
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:51,519
Speaker 1: doing it. I think he's giving me credit for because

1930
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:53,080
Speaker 1: he's a generous person, but I think it was on

1931
01:51:53,240 --> 01:51:56,280
Speaker 1: his radar. And now, is that something that you can

1932
01:51:56,360 --> 01:51:59,320
Speaker 1: just buy or is that cost him what I meant

1933
01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:01,400
Speaker 1: for him to do and what the practice I was

1934
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:05,400
Speaker 1: familiar with, And it's probably expensive. If you had a

1935
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:08,720
Speaker 1: lot of wood duck trees, is you remember people used

1936
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:12,799
Speaker 1: to wrap them in Uh you'd buy sheet metal like aluminum,

1937
01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:16,000
Speaker 1: flashing whatever and wrap it in that. But I mean

1938
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:17,280
Speaker 1: if you went out and if you wanted to do

1939
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:22,120
Speaker 1: a dozen trees. You're probably you know, big trees. I mean,

1940
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:24,920
Speaker 1: that's that's a hit to the pocketbook. So I'm glad

1941
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 1: there's some kind of plastic. What you do see is

1942
01:52:27,800 --> 01:52:29,840
Speaker 1: those things people sometimes put on, or those things that

1943
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:31,800
Speaker 1: look like you're trying to keep squirrels out of your feet,

1944
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:36,680
Speaker 1: are a flange that comes down to the angle. But

1945
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:38,720
Speaker 1: I knew that. You know, in the old days you

1946
01:52:38,800 --> 01:52:42,240
Speaker 1: used to put flashing around it so they can't get

1947
01:52:42,280 --> 01:52:45,280
Speaker 1: purchased with their fingernails on it. But there's gotta be less,

1948
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, cheaper less sort of visually. I mean, you know,

1949
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:55,120
Speaker 1: it looks like a tree wrapped in aluminum from yeah,

1950
01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:57,160
Speaker 1: a million miles away. So I'm glad to hear that.

1951
01:52:57,280 --> 01:53:00,360
Speaker 1: He glad to hear they did it. Yeah, it was,

1952
01:53:01,160 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, because at first it looks you think like

1953
01:53:03,640 --> 01:53:05,720
Speaker 1: that's kind of weird, unsightly, but then you know it

1954
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:10,760
Speaker 1: has such a good purpose stoked about it. My other

1955
01:53:10,840 --> 01:53:14,280
Speaker 1: closing thought is, uh, you've seen this big, giant oak

1956
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:18,680
Speaker 1: that we called the gobbler from yesterday and killed him

1957
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:22,280
Speaker 1: and we went we took a walk around that oak

1958
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:25,840
Speaker 1: now a few times during this turkey hunt and uh,

1959
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:28,920
Speaker 1: standing next to that oak in awe of it. It is,

1960
01:53:29,200 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 1: but you were off looking at it from afar when

1961
01:53:32,040 --> 01:53:34,760
Speaker 1: we killed the bird. But I've also stood now. I

1962
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:37,519
Speaker 1: sat underneath and he called a bird from it, and

1963
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:41,559
Speaker 1: he called a bird to it, because they show up

1964
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:46,080
Speaker 1: at that so you founded turkeys around. See. I've just

1965
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:49,560
Speaker 1: been looking at that field and seen him. I've described

1966
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 1: to people like there's one by the you know, gallant.

1967
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 1: I might go sit under that oak here in the

1968
01:53:53,800 --> 01:54:00,320
Speaker 1: next an hour too. But it's like, it's a a

1969
01:54:00,479 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 1: big tree. I mean, what do you think the diameter

1970
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:07,160
Speaker 1: of the base at least six ft? Yeah, yeah, I

1971
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:09,559
Speaker 1: mean if you're on one side of it, you could

1972
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:12,560
Speaker 1: hide three grown humans on the other side and not

1973
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:15,679
Speaker 1: see them no problem. Yeah, it's a big tree. Huge.

1974
01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:19,920
Speaker 1: The first branches are long enough that they could be

1975
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:21,560
Speaker 1: their own tree if you just cut them off and

1976
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:23,519
Speaker 1: were able to just to plant them into the ground.

1977
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:26,320
Speaker 1: They're like, I mean they might be sixty I mean,

1978
01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:28,960
Speaker 1: it's a giant and it sits right in the big

1979
01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:33,920
Speaker 1: in the middle of this. Uh, it's a cornfield. You

1980
01:54:34,120 --> 01:54:36,880
Speaker 1: like whoever you kind of have a soft spot for,

1981
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:40,680
Speaker 1: whoever was clear in the land. Well, I got to

1982
01:54:40,760 --> 01:54:42,480
Speaker 1: notice and there was a there was a chunk of

1983
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:45,280
Speaker 1: rebar drove down in the ground at the base of

1984
01:54:45,320 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: that tree. There's probably a corner at some point in time.

1985
01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:54,720
Speaker 1: Well I felt I thought it was either a corner

1986
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:57,280
Speaker 1: or it had lightning protection. I was gonna say, somebody

1987
01:54:57,320 --> 01:55:00,160
Speaker 1: tried to ground. I think someone had such a off

1988
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:02,080
Speaker 1: spot for a big old tree that they left it there.

1989
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,960
Speaker 1: That's what I'd like to think. Well, you'd have to

1990
01:55:05,040 --> 01:55:08,880
Speaker 1: be some sort of evil person to cut that thing down. Well,

1991
01:55:08,960 --> 01:55:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's got me to thinking about like the

1992
01:55:11,120 --> 01:55:14,720
Speaker 1: way that like like whatever you want to call it, preservation,

1993
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:19,000
Speaker 1: conservation um, the way that it can hit you. And

1994
01:55:19,080 --> 01:55:21,240
Speaker 1: I was just really standing there like in awe of

1995
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:23,720
Speaker 1: the special thing and thinking how like like you're saying,

1996
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 1: you have to be evil to cut it down now,

1997
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:29,200
Speaker 1: but like some special person had the forethought back in

1998
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 1: the day, and now you could take anybody from anywhere

1999
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:34,240
Speaker 1: in the world and put them twenty ft from that

2000
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:37,040
Speaker 1: tree and they would sit there and awe. And I

2001
01:55:37,160 --> 01:55:40,000
Speaker 1: think that we all need to like have that try

2002
01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:43,760
Speaker 1: to have that mindset sometimes, you know, when you're just

2003
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:47,600
Speaker 1: going about the world, just have forethought to think what

2004
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:50,320
Speaker 1: stuff gonna be like for future generations, you know, when

2005
01:55:50,360 --> 01:55:53,800
Speaker 1: it comes to nature, because something like that is just spectacular.

2006
01:55:53,960 --> 01:55:55,440
Speaker 1: But you also got to be the person that can

2007
01:55:55,480 --> 01:55:57,800
Speaker 1: look at an old dead snag and know the value

2008
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:02,680
Speaker 1: of that too. That too, that too. There's a lot

2009
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:06,400
Speaker 1: of wildlife value in that. Ok, there's a lot of

2010
01:56:06,440 --> 01:56:10,080
Speaker 1: ship using it. Bunch of coon crap at the base

2011
01:56:10,160 --> 01:56:15,280
Speaker 1: of it. Oh yeah, cardinals, rubs, it's it smells like

2012
01:56:15,480 --> 01:56:19,120
Speaker 1: a like a farm. There's so many deer laying underneath it.

2013
01:56:20,280 --> 01:56:22,920
Speaker 1: When you're sitting there you catch that. I was like, man,

2014
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:25,040
Speaker 1: it's like elky almost, but I think it's just so

2015
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 1: many deer, so much stuff uses it. Yeah, that's cool,

2016
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:33,440
Speaker 1: all right. Thank you Johnnie for the closers. Now you're welcome,

2017
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:36,720
Speaker 1: and thank you everybody out there for listening. See you soon.