1
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:07,600
Speaker 1: Hey, what a welcome in.

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:08,320
Speaker 2: I'm Doug Gottlieb.

3
00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,320
Speaker 3: This is Paul Paul, but I could bring you a

4
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 3: conversation in regards to Game one of the NBA Finals

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,080
Speaker 3: and kind of a bigger picture topic of the NBA

6
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,480
Speaker 3: and Jokic and how he's viewed by bringing a good

7
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 3: friend in.

8
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 2: His name's Andy Glockner.

9
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 3: He's written a book called Chasing Perfection, and it's been

10
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 3: available actually for the last seven years. But it was

11
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 3: really kind of ahead of the curve in terms of players, teams,

12
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 3: understanding analytics, understanding data, understanding how to change their bodies

13
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,599
Speaker 3: and their games. And I think a lot of it

14
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 3: was forecasting and foreshadowing what we see with the Nuggets,

15
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,159
Speaker 3: what we see in the NBA today. He's also a

16
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 3: former editor at ESPN dot com. That's where we struck

17
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 3: up a friendship.

18
00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 2: He's a former.

19
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 3: College athlete as well, so I thought you'd enjoyed this

20
00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 3: conversation in regards to Game one, where the Denver Nugget

21
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 3: really kept the Miami Heat at arms distance. Neither team

22
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 3: shot the ball particularly well, especially in Miami, and the

23
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 3: Nuggets rubbed one game to none.

24
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 2: Let's catch up with Andy Glucker Andy, your book is

25
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 2: it's seven years old?

26
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,520
Speaker 3: Okay, but I was watching last night and obviously you

27
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 3: living in Denver made me partially think of it, but

28
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 3: it was I don't know, I really feel like it's

29
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,480
Speaker 3: one of those Hey, while you're watching this, if you're

30
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 3: an audible an audible guy, or what is an audio guy?

31
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 2: Is it audible audible right where you can listen to

32
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,639
Speaker 2: the book on tape yep, or if.

33
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 3: You want to pick up a book like it's honestly

34
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 3: kind of timeless and really fits it for people who

35
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 3: haven't read or heard of Chasing Perfection, give me the

36
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 3: you know, give me the quick bio on it.

37
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: It basically was a book that looked into how mostly

38
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 1: NBA played made themselves into their best version of themselves.

39
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 1: So whether it was analytics, shot charts, skill coaches, physical training,

40
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: all that type of stuff, so they were perfecting themselves

41
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: in the best way possible as the sport itself obviously

42
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: was going through an evolution that you're referring to. And

43
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: now if you go back seven years, there's still a

44
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: lot of stuff in that book that is relevant, you know,

45
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 1: beyond even the players. You know, James hard and Steph Curry,

46
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 1: a lot of guys still having influence. But combine that

47
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 1: with books written by industry colleagues like Mike Prada and

48
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 1: Seth Partner about the evolution of the sport and how

49
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 1: different it is. I think we saw a lot of

50
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,519
Speaker 1: that last night in Game one, and we've seen a

51
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,760
Speaker 1: lot of it in the playoffs, specifically from this Denver team.

52
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 3: And that's what made me like, I'm watching that and

53
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:52,360
Speaker 3: I'm like, dude, love I love people who have the

54
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 3: foresight to see things evolving and are able to I

55
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,600
Speaker 3: don't want to say predict the future, but at the time,

56
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 3: you were talking about a personal evolution for players in

57
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 3: the evolving game, and it kind of was all come

58
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 3: into fruition, and you know, it's interesting, like you see

59
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 3: parts of the old NBA, like Lebron and and he's

60
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 3: tried to evolve some but and when I say old

61
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,519
Speaker 3: NBA holding the ball at the top of the key

62
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 3: waiting for an ISO or on the side posting up,

63
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,920
Speaker 3: you know, for the like the stuff we grew up

64
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 3: kind of watching at times. And then you see other teams,

65
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 3: you know, and how they play or even Boston and

66
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,640
Speaker 3: how they played against Miami's zone which is a very

67
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 3: kind of rudimentary.

68
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 2: Hey, attack the zone.

69
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 3: You know, teams have played zone for a long time

70
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 3: in the NBA, even before the rules changed, but it

71
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 3: was very much an isocentric you know, come off a

72
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 3: ball screen and make a play sort of thing, as

73
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 3: opposed to I like to call it kind of the

74
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 3: European influence, which is you have all this kind of

75
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 3: like smoke and mirrors movement into attacking, and then now

76
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 3: you have Denver who we've seen point centers before, right,

77
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,640
Speaker 3: the Kings of the late nineties and early two thousands

78
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 3: with Vlade and Chris Webber, two incredible paths, right, but

79
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 3: the you know, and r Vita Sabonis and we've seen others.

80
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,280
Speaker 3: But it's their their their movement and how they use

81
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,840
Speaker 3: them and where they use them. That's really creative and

82
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 3: it's a it's just a different way of the same

83
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 3: task and it's I don't know, it's just interesting to me.

84
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Jokic specifically, everybody sort of colloquially calls

85
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,600
Speaker 1: him a cheat code. I mean, that's the easiest way

86
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,039
Speaker 1: to refer to him, but he's he's literally a cheat code.

87
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you mentioned Boston and why Miami's

88
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: zone specifically impacted Boston and it did not in any

89
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 1: way in Game one. Well, I mean they had a

90
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: couple of clunky possessions in the fourth quarter, but generally speaking, yeah,

91
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 1: Denver found shots against the zone, and it's largely because

92
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do with the KI And even

93
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 1: if you find something to do with Jokic and collapse

94
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 1: on that space where he's going to sit at the

95
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 1: top twelve feet from the rim dead center, there's not

96
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 1: him a lot you can do about Jamal Murray the

97
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,479
Speaker 1: way he's playing right now either, And when you combine

98
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,320
Speaker 1: the two of them, I think somebody said last night,

99
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,719
Speaker 1: and this is more broadly, Jokich and Murray are sort

100
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: of stoked In and Malone, except either guy could be

101
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,840
Speaker 1: stocked In or Malone in the two man game. And

102
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 1: that's what makes them ridiculous, the continuity, the playing together

103
00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,680
Speaker 1: for seven years, but the transferability of their skills, because

104
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 1: Jokich is so non traditional as a big but still

105
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 1: has the center size and strength and bulk, but he's

106
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: got the magic Johnson like passing and vision and game processing.

107
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what you're supposed to do with it.

108
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 1: And frankly, I don't think Miami has any ability to

109
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 1: do anything with him.

110
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 3: No, And I thought, and really they didn't shoot. Neither

111
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,920
Speaker 3: team shot well from three, but I mean Denver didn't

112
00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,800
Speaker 3: shoot well from three. Wins the game and fairly handily.

113
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,039
Speaker 3: You know, I do think Miami will settle down. But

114
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 3: you know, I also think there's a certain water, there's

115
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,480
Speaker 3: a certain like point.

116
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 2: Where you top out. It's like, man, how do we

117
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,599
Speaker 2: miss on all these undrafted guys?

118
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,320
Speaker 3: And then you're like, oh, well, you know you do

119
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 3: when you play against legit dudes, you know, you know

120
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like it's.

121
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: An undrafted for a reason, and this might be the reason.

122
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 3: Everybody has a reason, Like I get it, and once

123
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 3: you make it to the NBA. But I mean, like,

124
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,760
Speaker 3: you know, and gay Vincent was it was was fine

125
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 3: last night. He wasn't the worst culprit, But like, you

126
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 3: throw too many of those dudes out there, and yeah,

127
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 3: ultimately you get exposed. So help me out with Denver,

128
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 3: because you've seen the growth and the progression. It felt

129
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,080
Speaker 3: like they were knocking on the door in the bubble.

130
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 3: Was it merely a case of Jamal Murray and his

131
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 3: health or was there another inhibiting factor that hadn't allowed

132
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 3: them to take this step previously.

133
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think you recall after they traded

134
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,200
Speaker 1: for Aaron Gordon at the deadline in twenty twenty one,

135
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 1: really maybe the last great NBA trade heist because now

136
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: the price of any good players like four first round

137
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 1: picks and whatever. You know, Denver flipped like Gary Harrison

138
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: a first and got Aaron Gordon, who's ended up being

139
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 1: the consummate glue guy. I mean, you followed his journey

140
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: just as an aside. I think Aaron Jordan's evolution as

141
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 1: an NBA player is a really fascinating story.

142
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 2: I would agree, right he went from he went, oh yeah.

143
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 1: Top five NBA pick, all the hype had quote his

144
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 1: own franchise in Orlando, and stagnated there, you know, in

145
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: part because Orlando was not run particularly well for a

146
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 1: number of years. And he's finally said, you know what,

147
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,480
Speaker 1: I just want to win. I'm cool with this. I'm

148
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 1: going to be the glue guy. I'm gonna be the

149
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: defensive stopper. I'm gonna be the guy plays high low

150
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,320
Speaker 1: with Jokic because he makes everything so easy and all

151
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 1: I get is dunks and I just think that's really unusual,

152
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: so kudos to him. But your broader question, after they

153
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 1: traded for Aaron Gordon, I think they ripped off eight

154
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 1: straight wins, and then they lost the game to Boston

155
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 1: and then the game where Murray got hurt. We saw

156
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 1: a ten game sample with what this team could look

157
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 1: like that was devastating offensively, and I think that's what

158
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 1: people missed in the last two years because most people

159
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: just focus on the postseason. Murray was not available two

160
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 1: years ago. Will Barton was also hurt, so they had

161
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,080
Speaker 1: no guards when they got lit up by Phoenix, and

162
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 1: then last year they lost to the champs in five

163
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: when they didn't have MPJ or Murray, and everybody is

164
00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: taking the conclusion that Denver was fraudulent and Jokic couldn't

165
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 1: quote do it in the playoffs when they had no

166
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,680
Speaker 1: perimeter players. So now they have their team back this

167
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,360
Speaker 1: year and they're smoking everybody, and everybody's looking for an

168
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: excuse as to why this isn't real, and it's real real.

169
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:52,840
Speaker 2: Man.

170
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 1: Denver's offense is unstoppable with all these guys healthy, and

171
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,600
Speaker 1: that's why I thought going into the series that Miami

172
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 1: had very little chance here. You know, last series, you

173
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 1: heard all this Laker mystique stuff, right, and when you

174
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: pull the Laker mystique away, you saw Jokic busting ads,

175
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,680
Speaker 1: but back and forth up and none of the court

176
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 1: and transition you saw. You know, Lebron is thirty eight,

177
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: thirty nine years old, whatever it is. And suddenly you know,

178
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: there were four competitive games, but Denver swept. And then

179
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 1: everybody's looking at Miami and this, you know, this, this

180
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 1: this sorcery that they've had with the shooting and the

181
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 1: playoffs against Milwaukee and Boston and saying like, well, why

182
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,199
Speaker 1: can't they continue? Well, it might not continue because Denver's

183
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 1: huge and Miami can't get a stop defensively against them.

184
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes the truth just outweighs the narrative. And

185
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 1: I think people have just been really woefully behind the

186
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 1: narrative on this Denver team when they were fully held.

187
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 2: The right point.

188
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,440
Speaker 3: The Aaron Gordon personal evolution is really interesting, and it's

189
00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 3: it's one of those things to where you do wish

190
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 3: like people forget Okay, so even go back to Laker

191
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 3: series could make a shot. You know, in many ways

192
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,559
Speaker 3: they kind of dared him in several of the games.

193
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 3: But when they needed him in game four, and we

194
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 3: can say what we want about. Hey, they were up

195
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,079
Speaker 3: three games and none. They needed to win that game.

196
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,680
Speaker 3: Just you know, you got to put those guys away.

197
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,719
Speaker 3: They only played seven guys in that game. So Mike

198
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 3: Malone knew, like that was an important game. You don't

199
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 3: want to let Lebron and those guys hang around. Let

200
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 3: the refs get a couple of calls here or there,

201
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 3: call you a game, or get an injury or fatigue,

202
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,040
Speaker 3: you know, fatigue, yo, kitch any more than you need to.

203
00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 3: But he made three big ones. But it had to

204
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:37,160
Speaker 3: be really, really hard. I think about if you're Aaron Gordon,

205
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,839
Speaker 3: you have all the financial success in the world. You

206
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,560
Speaker 3: win a done contest, like you said, you have your

207
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,960
Speaker 3: own and then you have your own franchise, and then

208
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:45,439
Speaker 3: like now.

209
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 1: You're really a role player.

210
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 3: Okay, it's an important role, but you're a role player

211
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 3: and that role is playing off of two other guys

212
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,680
Speaker 3: and hey, we'll come to you when we need you

213
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 3: like that. I don't know if anybody understands the change

214
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 3: you have to make in your mentality, and for Aaron Gordon,

215
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 3: you do that in your late twenties when you're in

216
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 3: you know, I'm since he was fourteen, he's always been

217
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 3: the best player on every team he's played on. Like,

218
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 3: that's a really interesting personal transformation.

219
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,200
Speaker 1: Yep. Michael Porter junior, same story, combing off injury.

220
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 3: The only thing I'd say about Michael Porter Junior is

221
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 3: he played so little for a couple of years and

222
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,679
Speaker 3: because he's young and he hadn't.

223
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:28,320
Speaker 2: Played in the NBA.

224
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 3: Like, it's different if you in high school you're the

225
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 3: best player, right, But Aaron Gordon was the best player's

226
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 3: high school team, best player's AU team, best player's college team,

227
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 3: and he was immediately given, you know, the ball to

228
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 3: be the best player when he got to Orlando, right.

229
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,680
Speaker 3: You know, Porter, I think his career has worked in

230
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 3: kind of a different way in which he's going to

231
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,959
Speaker 3: be able in future years hopefully to expand his game.

232
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 3: Whereas now he's just hey, if you're open shooting, that's

233
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 3: and sometimes when you're not open.

234
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 2: It and then if you slash to the basket, you

235
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 2: get it.

236
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,880
Speaker 1: Done well because because because he's six ' ten, I mean,

237
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,560
Speaker 1: nobody gets in his sight line. You know, it doesn't

238
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,319
Speaker 1: matter if the guy's standing right there, he just shoots

239
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 1: right over the top of him. You know, I would

240
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 1: say that the MDD MPJ point. Do you remember in

241
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,719
Speaker 1: the bubble, right and they were down, you know, three

242
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,680
Speaker 1: to one in badly against Utah and then won that series,

243
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,959
Speaker 1: and then three one down against the Clippers and didn't

244
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,760
Speaker 1: look great and then came back and won that series.

245
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 1: Some of the mpg's quotes in that in the bubble

246
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 1: there were of the variety of like, hey, they need

247
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,600
Speaker 1: to get me the ball more, you know, I need

248
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,760
Speaker 1: to be on the floor more. And he wasn't wrong,

249
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 1: but that was like, that's a little jarring. You know,

250
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 1: your team's kind of struggling, and you're kind of like

251
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,199
Speaker 1: the me first guy. And he believed in his talent,

252
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, and fast fast forward three seasons now and

253
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 1: he is Every quote is I just want to win.

254
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm totally cool with my role. If the coach wants

255
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 1: to close with Bruce, I'm good with that. I just

256
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: want to win a title. So I think his maturity

257
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,679
Speaker 1: and and he has expanded his game a little bit.

258
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 1: He's been a little bit more put in the ball

259
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 1: in the deck. Obviously defensively, he's vastly improved. You saw

260
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,079
Speaker 1: that in last night's game, doesn't give up when he's

261
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 1: beating off the dribble a couple of blocks from behind,

262
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,959
Speaker 1: just competing harder. So it's just been really impressive because

263
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,440
Speaker 1: I think you know this, especially at the NBA level,

264
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't organically settle itself most of the time, right

265
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,680
Speaker 1: there are guys that are like, look, man, I want

266
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 1: to be the guy or on the number two score

267
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: or whatever it may be. And this team very clearly

268
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 1: has settled into it's Jokichen Murray and then everybody else

269
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 1: chips in behind that, and they seem happy at least

270
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 1: at this point, in part frankly because Gordon and MPJA

271
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 1: also got big contracts and that helps. They got their

272
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,080
Speaker 1: money right, so this is not compromising their cash. It's

273
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,079
Speaker 1: just they have found something very special in this team,

274
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 1: and they're three wins away from accomplishing what a lot

275
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,200
Speaker 1: of people didn't think they could.

276
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 4: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

277
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 4: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio

278
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 4: dot com and within the iHeartRadio apps s R to

279
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 4: listen live.

280
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 2: There's a there's a bunch there.

281
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,080
Speaker 3: I would say two parts to it, and it both

282
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,800
Speaker 3: comes back to yok okay. Is my my defense of

283
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 3: Steve Nash winning the m v p s. And this

284
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 3: is because this was a you know, it was a

285
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,640
Speaker 3: topic that really Kendrick Perkins brought up. He brought it

286
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 3: up in regards to race. I think that was that

287
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 3: was just that's like incredibly low hanging fruit and kind

288
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 3: of just a low basketball like Q talk to be

289
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 3: completely honest, because what it's really more about is is

290
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:48,160
Speaker 3: how is what makes a great player? Right, and agree

291
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 3: and and different positions and different styles of doing the

292
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 3: same thing. Which what surprised me about it is, well,

293
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: Kendrick Perkins was never a great NBA player, but he

294
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 3: was a valuable one, especially to the Celtics because keep

295
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 3: it into a specific role and need right, he allowed

296
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 3: he allowed KG to play the four. He was super physical,

297
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 3: he was the enforcer, like that's a specific role. And

298
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,920
Speaker 3: my defense of Steve Nash winning back to back MVPs was,

299
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 3: if you look at those teams, not only did they

300
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 3: win a ton, they want a lot more than their

301
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 3: Their talent would tell you, and every player around Steve

302
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 3: Nash had career years, right, had career years. And I

303
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 3: would say the same thing with Jokic, There's two things.

304
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,160
Speaker 2: There's an expression on if you've heard it, you are

305
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 2: who your best player is.

306
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 3: Right, and so it should not be surprising that all

307
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,720
Speaker 3: these guys have sacrificed their ego. Yeah, getting paid helps,

308
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,160
Speaker 3: especially when you're Michael Porter junior and you've barely been healthy,

309
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 3: you know, to get that paycheck, I'm sure helps rest you.

310
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 3: But when your best player is crazy unselfish, right, and

311
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 3: and enjoys passing the ball, and oh yeah, by the way,

312
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 3: is not really a spotlight guy, right, like Lebron can

313
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,200
Speaker 3: be unselfish but loves the spotlight, like he likes making

314
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,640
Speaker 3: the assist. Kis literally doesn't care, you know, just doesn't care.

315
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 3: But also, like, let's be honest, jokis not great defensively,

316
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 3: and they're not great defensive Like everything that Jokich is,

317
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 3: the rest of that team is as well in in

318
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,720
Speaker 3: their own way right right in personality. So there's that,

319
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 3: and then there's the as you're pointing out, and I

320
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 3: don't think Aaron Gordon's having a career year compared to

321
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 3: his time in Orlando, right, volume of touches. But generally

322
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 3: all those guys are performing, like Bruce Brown, like well,

323
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 3: why is Bruce Brown so much better now than he

324
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 3: was in the previous years.

325
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:42,800
Speaker 4: Duh.

326
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 3: That's that's what great players do, right, They elevate everybody

327
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 3: around That's the truth. That's that's why Carmela was never

328
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 3: a truly great player.

329
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 2: He was a great scorer. He did not make everybody

330
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 2: else around him better and done.

331
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 1: Now, now you're pandering to me as somebody that that

332
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, enjoys the Nuggets and is a long time

333
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:08,639
Speaker 1: Nixon right the podcast on Carmelo, You're you are not

334
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,920
Speaker 1: wrong about Carmelo in my opinion. Yeah, A couple of

335
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 1: things about that. The one stat that I floated a

336
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,199
Speaker 1: bunch this season to try to explain Jokic was that

337
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 1: Jokic shot sixty three percent from the field this year,

338
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,959
Speaker 1: and his teammates off of passes from Jokic shot sixty

339
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 1: one percent off those passes. That's the best way to

340
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: summarize Jokic, which is A. It's unstoppable, and D he

341
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 1: doesn't care. He just wants to make the best play

342
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 1: at every time. He's he's almost an un you know,

343
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: a hesitant or uncomfortable scorer, even though he's making five

344
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 1: out of every eight shots he takes and it spreads

345
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: to the team. So you look at you mentioned Aaron

346
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 1: Gordon last night. What were the first six minutes of

347
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: that game? It was Aaron Gordon dunking over Gabe Vincent

348
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 1: because he's like, you know, five inches and you know,

349
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 1: sixty pounds lighter than he is, you know, three feet

350
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 1: from the rim. And Aaron Gordon is understood that. He's like,

351
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 1: Jokic makes the game ridiculously easy and I love it.

352
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 1: And that's sort of the theme of this Nuggets team is,

353
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 1: as you said, they all feed off Yokic. I think

354
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to get involved in litigating the perk discussion,

355
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 1: per se. I do want to say that, like, look,

356
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,479
Speaker 1: I'm a middle aged white guy. My perspective may be

357
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 1: very different from guys who played in the league and

358
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 1: guys who grew up in different cultures. And I'm always

359
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 1: willing to listen to different perspectives, even if I disagreed

360
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 1: with it. I do think generally speaking, though, And you

361
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: hear this on every telecast, right you hear like, Wow,

362
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 1: Jokich just looks like a big doe guy. He has

363
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 1: no muscle tone. He looks like a big, lumbering dude,

364
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: he can't jump. We are so obsessed with what dominance

365
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,479
Speaker 1: is supposed to look like that we disregard what it is.

366
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: And I think that's a really interesting conversation topic, not

367
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: just about Jokic, but you know the guys in the

368
00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 1: NBA that, yeah, do not flash for dish, no athleticism.

369
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 1: Maybe you put a James Harden in that mix, you know,

370
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: and guys that just kill it because they're smart, and

371
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 1: they have great footwork, and they have incredible touch and

372
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: great dexterity. And yeah, he can't jump over a phone book.

373
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: Who cares? He's given you thirty thirteen.

374
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 3: And that that's the conversation, right because here, here's I

375
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 3: have two other guys and they're all time great players,

376
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 3: and they're also not white.

377
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,920
Speaker 2: Magic Johnson was not a great athlete, right, like not the.

378
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 1: Not the traditional were discussion.

379
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 2: He was and he wasn't.

380
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 3: He made himself into a great free throw shooter, and

381
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 3: then at some points in his career he became a

382
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 3: good three point shooter. But he was he was. He

383
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 3: was not a great He did not have great lateral quickness.

384
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 3: He did not jump high. Right, he was a great

385
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 3: basketball player. Paul Pierce right, Paul Pierce, is that it

386
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 3: was a great player, not a great athlete in the

387
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: true like you said, in the traditional sense, Larry Bird,

388
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 3: Luka Doncik, Steve Nash. It's really and I would even

389
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 3: I would even say this, like, I know, I don't

390
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 3: I think he wanted done contest. I'm not sure. And

391
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 3: he had some great dugs. But in comparison to Michael Jordan,

392
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant wasn't like some crazy athlete like he wasn't.

393
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, in comparison to that role, Yeah, the athletic

394
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 5: Greeks like Kobe Bryant was about footwork and understanding angles

395
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 5: and and he.

396
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 3: Just had a ridiculous basketball to you, and I didn't

397
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,199
Speaker 3: even necessarily love Kobe as a player, right, He was

398
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 3: very selfish for a long period of time, and he

399
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily efficient. But the point is that he accomplished

400
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 3: a lot without the He wasn't like Vince Carter is

401
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 3: the most crazy vertical athlete I've ever seen, and he

402
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 3: scored a lot of points, but he wasn't I mean,

403
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 3: he wasn't Luka Doncik in any way.

404
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 2: And we have a have time getting figuring that out.

405
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 3: That basketball though it is a game that requires a

406
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 3: level of athleticism, it doesn't necessarily require freak athleticism in

407
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 3: order to be great at it.

408
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it requires an incredible processing speed, It inquire dexterity,

409
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: touch hands, you know, all that kind of stuff, a

410
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: mind for the game. As you said, Basketball IQ, it's

411
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: been interesting because obviously Carmelo, you know, recently announced his

412
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: reformally announced his retirement, you know, and obviously there's a

413
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,239
Speaker 1: lot of parallels with the number fifteen in Denver and

414
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: he and Jokic both wearing the same jersey number for

415
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 1: the same franchise. And it's crazy because I say this

416
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: all the time, like, I mean, you know, what would

417
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: you describe Carmelo's reputation as in the league. He's basically

418
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: revered as a bucket getter, right, that was his skill set? Well, yo,

419
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: could shoot sixty three percent, man, Like, that's not a he.

420
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

421
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 3: Yeah.

422
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: So that's where it comes in. And I don't want

423
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: to in any way make this into, you know, a

424
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 1: white thing, because as you're saying, there are examples of

425
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: non white players that are excellent in the same way.

426
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: But there's this revere for certain physical qualities and irreverence

427
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: for certain skill traits even if you're inefficient. You know,

428
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: I said this at the time. I loved Jamal Crawford

429
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: as a player, one of my favorite players of the

430
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 1: last twenty years to watch. I mean, what did he

431
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: shoot for his career forty percent? But he was Yeah,

432
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: but he was a bucket. But he was a bucket.

433
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: And that's the point, right, could he couldn't win at

434
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: all as a starter, right, all the best parts of

435
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 3: his career as a six man.

436
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 2: And we can even say whatever you want about six men,

437
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: but the fact is that one of the benefits is

438
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: you're playing against backups.

439
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: Yes, but yeah, for a significant chunk of minutes. But

440
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: let's so let me bring this back to the Denver

441
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: point that you made, which was sort of, oh, you know,

442
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 1: Jokich isn't great defensively, although I've always argued he's better

443
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: than he's given credits. Or he's not a rim protector.

444
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: He's a bad rim protector. Let's just get let's just

445
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: establish that Jokic cannot jump or protect the rim. He's

446
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: very good in other aspects. He gets his hands on

447
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: a lot of deflection steals, he's a great rebounder, he

448
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: can move his feed in space, So anyway, whatever, whatever

449
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: you want to evaluate him this but this is the point,

450
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: right which is immediately we go to Denver's not really

451
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: a great defensive team, or Jokich isn't really a great defender,

452
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: and all of those are actually true to some extent.

453
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: Denver is a middle of the road defensive team that

454
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: can spike and be pretty good when they're locked in,

455
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: but overall, maybe they're tenth or twelfth in the league

456
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. We are always looking for what

457
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: people or teams cannot do at the expense of understanding

458
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: the magnitude of what they can do. And Jokch you

459
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: know when you hear like, oh, you know, he and

460
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: Embiid are kind of the same offensively, No, no, not

461
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: like stop, okay. Mbiid is an incredible individualist and Jokic

462
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: makes everybody around him better and they have like an

463
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: unstoppable team offense that's not going to cave in in

464
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: any series. Okay, they're just different offensive players. And it's

465
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: the same thing with Denver. They're like, oh, that's a

466
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: cute story, but you can't win the title if you're

467
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: not great defensively. Oh well, you can if your offense

468
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: is absurd and you're scoring one hundred and twenty points

469
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: per one hundred and nobody can stop you. Like, what

470
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: does it matter? They're net rating for the playoffs right

471
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: now is like plus eight points something they're killing everybody?

472
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: Does it matter if Yokic isn't a great rim protector?

473
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: That's the part I think that just gets overlooked. We

474
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: are always looking for the weaknesses and trying to say,

475
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: like why somebody cannot be something, And in certain cases

476
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: we do not fully accept the magnitude of somebody's gifts.

477
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: And I think that's been the problem with Jokic. And

478
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: now you see national folks have tuned in obviously, and

479
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: they've watched this playoff run, watched him integray, watched him

480
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: in person more than they ever had, and people more

481
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: and more like I was wrong. I totally underestimated this guy.

482
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: This guy is unbelievable. And that's what the people in

483
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: Denver have been saying for three years.

484
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 3: You know, I truly don't think it's a they underestimate him.

485
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: I think said they didn't watch. I just I just

486
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: think that's the reality.

487
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: Like people have admitted they haven't watched.

488
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 2: Yes, Barkley has said that.

489
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: You know, he said, like, look, I don't even watch

490
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: these games, right, and Barkley, who gets paid to do it,

491
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: doesn't do it. I honestly believe that's that's a real thing.

492
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 3: The NBA regular season is hard to watch Denver's. It's

493
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: a different deal. We haven't been trained to tune in

494
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: to watch. And as much as basketball people are like, man,

495
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 3: this dude's been awesome for a long time, it's just

496
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: a hard thing for people to.

497
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: Admit that they don't watch. That's why they all like

498
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 2: he's way better than I thought. No, it's not. He's

499
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: not way better. You didn't watch previously.

500
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: Now you watch you like, okay, I get because if

501
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: you watch you, this is exact same shit he's been

502
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 3: doing for three years.

503
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Well I think he's gotten better. I mean, he's better now,

504
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: but yeah.

505
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 2: He's gotten better.

506
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: Shit.

507
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's another one. Right, So everybody's like, oh,

508
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: he looks like he's winded. He's gasping for breath at

509
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: the free throw mew While you watched the Lakers series,

510
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: how far behind was was ad on every transition? Behind Jokich,

511
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: who was pushing the ball forty times a game, right,

512
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: he was killing Anthony Davis in transition. Anthony David is

513
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: one of the most athletic gigs in the league, So

514
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: I think there's some of each. Doug. I think people

515
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: didn't watch him, but I also think they don't understand

516
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: fully what they were watching when they did watch, and

517
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: now they're getting the full breath of it because everything

518
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: is lining up, the winning, the dominance, the humbleness, the stats,

519
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: the visuals on TV. You know, the crazy shots he

520
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: hit a few times in the Lakers series, the step

521
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: back threes at the buzzer, and everybody's just like, oh, man,

522
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: like I see it now. You know. So whether it

523
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: was because mostly they weren't watching enough, or whether they

524
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: didn't fully appreciate the package because of some of the

525
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: biases we were talking about previously, it's all come together,

526
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: and you know, I really hope just as a basketball story.

527
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: I obviously support the Nuggets. I would love this team

528
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: to win, but it's a basketball story. I think it

529
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: would be great. I think it would be absolutely great

530
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: for a team like this, with a star like this

531
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: to close the deal. And people can say whatever they

532
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: want about the seating or the playing teams. Nobody was

533
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: saying that Phoenix was a pushover when they were favored

534
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: before that series. Nobody was saying that the Lakers were

535
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: going to get swept when they were a small dog

536
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: in that series and had a healthy ad in Lebron.

537
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 1: Nobody was saying that the Nuggets were going to wipe

538
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: the floor with Miami after Miami took out Milwaukee and Boston. So,

539
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, whatever I mean, you said the regular season

540
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. Seating is sort of a you know,

541
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: a composite of that. Like the Lakers weren't a seven

542
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: seed after the deadline, what were they? They were like

543
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: twenty five and eight or something, you know, like they

544
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: were a good basketball team. So you know, it doesn't matter.

545
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: Flags fly forever. I hope Denver closes this out and

546
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: gets the banner this team deserves.

547
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: Who's the next team that we've been missing on?

548
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's a good question, man, you know, in terms

549
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: of upside that will never maybe be realized. I keep

550
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: looking at New Orleans. I don't know what they're supposed

551
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: to do with the fact that that that Zion cannot

552
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: stay healthy, But man, they have a lot of pieces

553
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: and a lot of talent down there that really, you know,

554
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: when they're right, you know that team I'm looking at

555
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: like you know that they're they're really darn good. I'm

556
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: sure I'm forgetting somebody.

557
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: Else has the Zion thing though that I mean, you

558
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 3: gotta it all comes together if they have Zion right,

559
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: which which I'm you know, like I was willing to go, like, hey,

560
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 3: Embiid kind of had different right wasn't as diet related,

561
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: but we don't know, but Embiid kind of and some

562
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 3: some of his was diet related.

563
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 2: But Embiid had the first couple of years where he

564
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: kind of.

565
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: Wandered around and and seems to be kind of putting

566
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 3: it together some. But it's like you just you have

567
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: a little bit of window and it feels like this

568
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: is the window for New Orleans in the next year,

569
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: maybe two, because Golden State's gonna have to try, you know,

570
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 3: they're gonna try and get as much juice out of

571
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: that orange as they can. Lebron's aged out, Dallas has

572
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: got Dallas has not figured it out yet. Denver is

573
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: still going to be there. But they're still, you know,

574
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: really dependent upon two guys. And you know it's perfect now,

575
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: but it's it's hard I think New Orleans is one team.

576
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 3: I'll tell you another team that. I don't know if

577
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: Tibbs is the guy at the end of the day,

578
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: but if they can figure out how to move on

579
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: from Randall and get somebody else. I do think there's

580
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: something there with the Knicks. I don't think they're that

581
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 3: far away.

582
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: No, I don't think they. I mean Brunson becoming who

583
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: he was in the playoffs and last year too. I mean,

584
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: obviously there were the games where they didn't have Luca

585
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: right and Brunson showed out and everybody's like, oh, he

586
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: could do it. A couple of games. I don't know, man.

587
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's raving about Miami and how they shut

588
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: down Boston and how bad they made Milwaukee look. The

589
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: one guy that they couldn't stop in the first three

590
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: rounds of the playoffs was Jalen Brunson.

591
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: That's why he was He would be the guy who

592
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: I would if I'm not voting for Jokic, I would

593
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: vote for Brunston to be MVP. He's another example, like

594
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever watched him court side,

595
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 3: non explosive athlete, not terribly big, right, He's just a

596
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: regular dude, but unbelievable, unbelievable feel for how to where to.

597
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: Go, how to get his shot off, yep, when.

598
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: To do what? Extraordinary? Extraordinary?

599
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,959
Speaker 3: God, yes, like you're watching me Like I had no

600
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: I have no possible ability. I was really good at

601
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: what I did, and I could. I wished I could

602
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: be a Chris Paul, right, that's the that's the.

603
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: Kind of model, you know.

604
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: I was never a mid range guy, like you know,

605
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: it was more the dream would be more.

606
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: Nash and Chris Paul style. Right.

607
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 3: I have no chance of playing the way that Jalen

608
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: Brunson plays because he's so strong and so smart yep,

609
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: and has such a great use like you said, of

610
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: footwork and balance. He's incredible. And again I think there's

611
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 3: like there's like Mitchell Robinson, I really like. Yeah, Like,

612
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: I think there's some pieces there.

613
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, for the first time in a long while. I mean,

614
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: I know, the Knicks had that, you know, one to

615
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: two seasons with Mellow where they spiked and they won

616
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: a playoff series, but that always felt a little bit fraudulent.

617
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: It never felt like it was real real. It was

618
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: just kind of a nice thing. And then all of

619
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: a sudden, the three started stopped dropping and they fell

620
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: off again. This is the first time I would say

621
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: in probably twenty years that the and Knicks fans have

622
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: a real reason to feel good about where their program's going.

623
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: And again I don't you know, I look, I'm not,

624
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, going to comment on on teams. He knows

625
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: more about basketball than I could ever possibly know. But yeah,

626
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: you do have to look at that, Like, you know,

627
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: obviously he's had a lot of regular season success and

628
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: he's had a you know, glass ceiling to this point

629
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: in the playoffs with his approach. But you know, they

630
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: were very close to taking this Miami team to seven,

631
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: very close, you know, had a chance to tie or

632
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: win with ten seconds left, and unfortunately Brunson turned the

633
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: ball over. So yeah, I agree with them, And you know,

634
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: I think Okac is obviously sort of the you know,

635
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: the next hipster team in waiting, but like, they are

636
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: loaded with good players and I really like their coach

637
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: as well. So if you're looking for a future potential,

638
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: a team that could really just jump right into the

639
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: playoffs in the West next year, I would look at

640
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: the Thunder for sure.

641
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: I agree. I'm fascinated to see what happens with Chet.

642
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they have a but a burgeoning it's a burgeoning,

643
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: burgeoning superstar with with SAG and then you know, look,

644
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: the new rules make it so that he's you know

645
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: that new rules are designed specifically for this situation, right,

646
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: specifically for this situation because they tried with previous rules

647
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: give you an extra year. It's a guy at home,

648
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 3: but now the money is so great to stay with

649
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: your current team.

650
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Well, what is what is the next step past burgeoning?

651
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 1: Because I think that's where I think that's where sh is.

652
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: I think we're kind of past burgeoning. But you know

653
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: there is the burgeoning and superstar because I think that's

654
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: where that's where he is. No, I don't.

655
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

656
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: I mean talk about talk about guys that people don't

657
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: watch though. I mean, nobody's tuning in to watch the

658
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: Thunder the last two or three years, right, No, but people.

659
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 3: Look, they gotta they got they gotta win more, they

660
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: gotta It's it's a different sport when you play, when

661
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 3: you play real games.

662
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: Games that matter. S G is real, real good though,

663
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: really really good.

664
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: Oh he's incredible, He's really good.

665
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: That's one of my that's one of my biggest nicked laments.

666
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: I wanted them to draft him when he.

667
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 3: Said but but part of it, honestly is I'm not

668
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: sure if it was like he's not he's no longer

669
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: a point guard, right, and coming out he was they

670
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: everybody thought he was a really good point guard. And

671
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: obviously the clip Clippers took him to develop him into

672
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 3: a scoring point and and you know, early on once

673
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: he got the ball playing with Oklahoma City, like, the

674
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: thing that was missing is he's not really a guy

675
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: who sets other guys up, like he can pass, yeah,

676
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 3: but he's not a creator for other people.

677
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: That's not what he does.

678
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: And you know, because they brought in multiple ball handlers,

679
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 3: guys that are willing passers in a different way than Steph,

680
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 3: that they basically play him off the ball a lot

681
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: so that he can just go do what he does

682
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: and they kind.

683
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: Of figure it out around him.

684
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 3: And I think there's a certain genius to how they're

685
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 3: coaching him and how they're using him in the personnel

686
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: they've drafted so that he can not have to overthink

687
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 3: getting other guys involved and just go play.

688
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's going back to I mean a lot of

689
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: people talked about Toronto the last few years, the switch ability,

690
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: the skill. You know, every guy can handle, every guy

691
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: can shoot, every guy can defend, and they're all six

692
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: eight or whatever. Oklahoma City has a lot of that

693
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: to them. You know, there's a lot of like non

694
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: traditional ways that they're using players. As you're saying, you know,

695
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: SGA has evolved into an absolutely lethal score. I mean,

696
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: what was the fifty plus percent field goal, ninety percent

697
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: free throw shooter thirty one a game this year. Yeah,

698
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: so not a pure point in the way that you

699
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: know you would have been, you know, twenty years ago,

700
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: but just a devastatingly good player at this point is

701
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: surrounded in the same way, you know, a little bit

702
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: of Denver to it, right, Guys who like know their roles,

703
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: Guys who have specific skills that work together, good camaraderie,

704
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: well coached. I enjoy watching Oklahoma City. I think they're

705
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: going to surprise a lot of people when they hit

706
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: the mainstream.

707
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: Last thing, let's go back to the finals.

708
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: I do agree with you that Denver is the better

709
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: team and that I thought and I hate the pick

710
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: A series in number of games, but it's just really

711
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 3: hard to conceptualize them losing at home because they're knowing better.

712
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: But it's just that second game at altitude is a bitch,

713
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: you know, and they they play, they played to it,

714
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 3: they're smart about it, they get it. Is there an

715
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: adjustment that you could see Miami making in game two

716
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: and beyond that could could make this thing more interesting?

717
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: In short, No, because I think they're I think their

718
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: defensive problems are too profound. I think they're they're just

719
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: way too small. The one thing that a lot of

720
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: people do not talk about with this Denver team is

721
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: how big the Nuggets are. I mean, you know, MPJ

722
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: is a small forward at six ' ten. Aaron Gordon

723
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,959
Speaker 1: is just huge. He's jacked. I mean, what is he six'

724
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: eight sixty nine. You know, Yokich is massive. You know,

725
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: They've got other guys with some length and athleticism, and

726
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: it was just profoundly obvious. I Mean, that was my

727
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: fear going into the series, was, you know, Miami had

728
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: to find a way to slow down Denver's offense to

729
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: the point where their three point shooting could keep them

730
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 1: in it. And that doesn't mean they can't be one

731
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: game where Miami doesn't shoot well or Denver is a

732
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: little clunky. You know, I'm not disregarding the heat completely,

733
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: but the gap is huge because Miami physically cannot handle

734
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: this team. They cannot play with only Bam out there

735
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: and defend this team. And if they start playing with

736
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: two bigs, that probably compromises their offense to an extent

737
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: that they just can't close the gap. So yeah, I

738
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: think you could see one or two games where Miami

739
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 1: shoots really well and plays well. They're a good team,

740
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: really well coached. Obviously spo arguably the best in the league.

741
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: But I just think the physical problem that they face

742
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: is just too big. And you said the altitude, the

743
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: home court advantage, and Jokic being the best player in

744
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: the world. I'm just I don't see a way this

745
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: goes past six, And if it's four, I wouldn't be shocked.

746
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: And it's awesome. Chasing Perfection is the book.

747
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: You can pick it up at Amazon dot com wherever

748
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 3: you read or download books, or listen to it on

749
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: audio conversations. I appreciate you joining me. I was thinking

750
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: to you watching You were ahead of it a long

751
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 3: time ago, and I want to make sure you got

752
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 3: the credit you deserve.

753
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: Appreciate it. Bud Good catching over there.

754
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: All right, that's it for this edition of All Ball.

755
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 3: Reminded the Doug Gotlib Show is daily three to five

756
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: Eastern Time. Plus we have the in the Bonus podcast,

757
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 3: which is awesome. It's a lot of fun, totally off

758
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: the cup. Say what you want, Do what you want.

759
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: It's a one hour daily pod that goes in concert

760
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 3: with the radio show. You can download that on the

761
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 3: iHeart Radio app. More discussion on the NBA Finals to come,

762
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 3: plus we'll talk some NBA Draft I'm Doug Gottlie.

763
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: This is All Ball.