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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't going to

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Speaker 1: stuff I never told you production of I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and this This is going to be a slew Samantha

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Speaker 1: of which horror movie classics that we're gonna run during

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Speaker 1: this month and I think it's a little bit into

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Speaker 1: November because we have a lot of them. Surprise. We

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about which is on this show. We

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Speaker 1: love talking about it. So this first one was a

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Speaker 1: double feature we did that actually changed my horror movie

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Speaker 1: routine because, um, we did Practical Magic and which Is

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Speaker 1: of Eastwick, both of which I had never seen when

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Speaker 1: we did this one. Uh and now I watched Practical

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Speaker 1: Magic every Halloween. Wait were those my choices? Yes? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I cannot believe I made to watch to watch which

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Speaker 1: movies that are like that? That's amazing. I'm myself keep

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Speaker 1: going as you should be as you And it's really

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Speaker 1: funny because I introduced a lot of people to Practical

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Speaker 1: and Magic, which I don't know why. It's just really

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Speaker 1: resonated with me in my heart. We do a lot

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Speaker 1: of like midnight margaritas when we watch it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's very very fun. Yes, So please enjoy this classic

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Speaker 1: episode Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to

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Speaker 1: stephan Ever told you a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: So for today's question, I'm going to do it in

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Speaker 1: the spirit of this episode. What what movie? Which children's

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Speaker 1: movie do you think scared you the most? It was

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Speaker 1: meant for kids, It was terrifying, it was meant for kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I have a few, because I definitely had a

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Speaker 1: giant imagination of things coming to get me in like

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Speaker 1: insignificant things that shouldn't have been a big deal. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, hell no, Um, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about one of the movies specifically for sure, so

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Speaker 1: I'll leave that one. Yeah, for surprise. It was really

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Speaker 1: but actually I wasn't a kid and it came on later,

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Speaker 1: but it freaked me out. Was the Ernest Saves Helloway yea,

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Speaker 1: those snotty trolls. I was thinking about this the other day.

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Speaker 1: I was like, what other movies really freaked me out?

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Speaker 1: And that was one of them, and I was like, why, why,

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Speaker 1: why did that have to happen? And for for me,

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Speaker 1: Like I actually watched a lot of really bad at

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Speaker 1: nineties eighties horror movies growing up, and so I think

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Speaker 1: I was with my teens preteens, we were doing that.

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Speaker 1: We were being rebellious and watching like House of Wax

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Speaker 1: and that stuff really scared me. But those were were

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Speaker 1: supposed to be scary, and even though you know, on

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Speaker 1: a scary stupid was supposed to be kind of scary,

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Speaker 1: it would really freaked me out. Yeah. I can't really

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Speaker 1: remember much about that movie, but I do remember being

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Speaker 1: unsettled by it, so I don't think you're alone. Yeah. Look,

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Speaker 1: they turned into treat people, they turn into like, yeah carving.

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Speaker 1: It was weird, So what about you? Yes, uh, well,

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Speaker 1: I've probably mentioned it before, but I have an entire

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Speaker 1: list of what I call terrifying children's movies, and there's

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Speaker 1: like twenty movies on there. And I was an interesting

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Speaker 1: kid in that, Like I watched Nightmare on Elm Street.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, for nothing, no fear, but like, the

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Speaker 1: one that scared me the most was a little Nemo

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Speaker 1: Adventures in Slummerland. What is that? I don't know, It's

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Speaker 1: like comic, I think, um, but it scared me so

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Speaker 1: badly I asked my dad to remove it from the house,

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Speaker 1: like I would not have it, and so he like

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Speaker 1: took it out and donated it and I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: it since, but sometimes when I bring it up, people

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Speaker 1: do you remember, and they remember it being very scary

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Speaker 1: as a kid, and I definitely also on there is

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Speaker 1: the secretive name that terrified me. Legend. I haven't seen Legend,

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Speaker 1: but I it's It's I was on primary Thinking and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe it's time because has brought up Legend too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you have talked about this before because Tim

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Speaker 1: Curry as Satan the Devil one of the scariest scenes.

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Speaker 1: I remember, like I'm still in his voice, deep and

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Speaker 1: growling at you and you just knew that you were

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Speaker 1: going to get eaten up. And of course it was

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise's first movie. I think we've talked about it

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Speaker 1: on our show before. I think it was Cances and

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Speaker 1: it was really baffling as a child and kind of

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Speaker 1: like embarrassing to watch. I'm like, why is he handless? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is very baffling. But speaking of Tim Curry, I

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Speaker 1: actually recently we watched one on the list, freen Gully,

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Speaker 1: which is not it does not hold up, but I

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Speaker 1: can see why it scared me. And Tim Curry has

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Speaker 1: a musical number in it, so it's worth watching. But

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Speaker 1: and a dark Crystal. Oh my god. The Wizard of

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Speaker 1: Oz too. Yeah, not the first one, the second one.

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Speaker 1: I didn't gonna lie. Oh oh, it's all about depression.

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Speaker 1: It's so upsetting, Like they don't believe that she went

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Speaker 1: to OZ. So she goes through like a lecture, shock therapy.

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Speaker 1: It's awful. Yeah, intense. Yeah, Rockadoodle. That one doesn't hold

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Speaker 1: up either, but it scared me. Yeah, it's a fun

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Speaker 1: a forest. All of these are pollution based children's movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are you scared that the world was going to end?

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Speaker 1: I did. I actually was really worried about that, and

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Speaker 1: I had a whole list. When I was nine years old,

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Speaker 1: I wrote my bucket list and most of it was like,

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Speaker 1: if you read it now, it reads as though I

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Speaker 1: thought the world was going to end it in any

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Speaker 1: moment um. So I guess, well, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: one movie that did scare a lot of children, because

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Speaker 1: we're examining two movies today because it's coming up with

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Speaker 1: my favorite season, which is Halloween. My favorite Well, I

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Speaker 1: call it a season. You do call it a season,

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Speaker 1: like you used what it was two weeks ago. You

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Speaker 1: sent me an email saying, Okay, it's time. What are

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Speaker 1: we gonna do for the Halloween specials? What horror movies?

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Speaker 1: Alrea we gonna do? Like, let's get a whole months worth?

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Speaker 1: And well, Paul is my favorite season and Halloween is

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Speaker 1: my favorite holiday. Uh, And we talked about which is

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Speaker 1: all the time, will take any opportunity to talk about

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Speaker 1: which is. So today we're doing two movies that I

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Speaker 1: would argue our children's movies but definitely scared a lot

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Speaker 1: of people and are enjoyed by adults, hocus Pocus and

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Speaker 1: The Witches. And then we're gonna have a conversation on

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Speaker 1: depiction of which is in children's movies in general. Now,

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Speaker 1: hocus Pocus didn't scare me. I know I've mentioned it

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Speaker 1: on this show before, but I rented it from a

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Speaker 1: Blockbuster so much as a kid that the guy I

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Speaker 1: remember his face. He was like, you know what, you

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Speaker 1: can just have it? Because I kept renting it and

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Speaker 1: my parents refused. They were like, no, she can't, she cannot.

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Speaker 1: How dare you? Don't you hand this too much? And

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Speaker 1: my grandparents offered to buy it for me, and they

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Speaker 1: also said no, don't give it to her, but behind

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Speaker 1: their backs, I saved up my money and I bought

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Speaker 1: it from the blockbuster guy at a really cheap price.

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Speaker 1: I think he sold it to me for like two

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Speaker 1: dollars um. And then I watched it so much my

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Speaker 1: parents banned from the house and I did not rewatch it.

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Speaker 1: So this was probably like eight to nine. I didn't

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Speaker 1: real watch it again until college. It's a good movie.

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Speaker 1: It's a good like. I loved it, and I love

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Speaker 1: Bette Midler. You know this. Everything she does to me

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Speaker 1: is just power house movie. It doesn't matter what it is. Like,

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Speaker 1: I grew up watching her. She did one where she

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Speaker 1: was twins with another one it was I just love

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Speaker 1: a Big Business. It was called Big Business. Love that movie.

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Speaker 1: But hello First Wives Club, Like I made you watch

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Speaker 1: it because how much I love her as an individual,

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Speaker 1: but then as a cast it's phenomenal. And yeah, hocus pocus,

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Speaker 1: she makes that movie. Oh yeah, she's a delight to watch.

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Speaker 1: And certainly, yeah stuff we're going to get into how

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Speaker 1: it has become a cult classic and I certainly don't

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Speaker 1: go a Halloween without watching it at least once. We've

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Speaker 1: actually already watched it. Samantha and the Witches we did

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Speaker 1: a double feature um, and apparently there is a Hocus

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Speaker 1: Focus too in production. It's going to be a Disney

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Speaker 1: Plus exclusive. I was very confused by it because there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of back and forth over who was

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Speaker 1: going to be in it. It was the original cast

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Speaker 1: going to come back. I don't know. I guess maybe COVID,

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Speaker 1: because this is right in March ounced it, so maybe

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Speaker 1: COVID really got in the way because I couldn't really

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Speaker 1: pin down any more details other than that. And there

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Speaker 1: is a writer and a director on board, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know, so I guess look out for that. There's

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Speaker 1: also a board game. Um, I think it just came out,

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Speaker 1: just came out really, yeah, like it's it was four Halloween.

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Speaker 1: They were getting it ready, So there's a board game

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Speaker 1: if that's your kind of thing. I really can't tell

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Speaker 1: you much about the gameplay, but I like the cover

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Speaker 1: of it. And there is a book. There's a book

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Speaker 1: that analyzes the main themes of Focus Postcus, which the

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Speaker 1: author identified as home nostalgia, festivity, horror, broadway, sibling rivalry, virginity,

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Speaker 1: and feminism. It's called hocus Pocus in Focus. The Thinking

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Speaker 1: Fans Guide to Disney's Halloween Classic by Aaron Wallace, And

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Speaker 1: there's another book from Hocus Focus and the all new

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Speaker 1: sequel that follows Max and Allison's daughter Poppy too. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like she's trying to prove that the story they've

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Speaker 1: told her isn't true. So she was to the Sanderson

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Speaker 1: Museum and I'm sure nothing goes wrong, because nothing ever

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Speaker 1: goes wrong. And then I says, I was thinking about this.

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Speaker 1: I remembered that last August to August ago and it

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Speaker 1: was last August. It was only a year ago. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, it feels like so long. It does. Um.

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Speaker 1: Samantha and I were in Orlando for podcast conference and

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Speaker 1: we went to Magic Kingdom and because it's Disney, even

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Speaker 1: though it was August, uh, they were already celebrating Halloween, right,

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Speaker 1: And we saw the Halloween special at Magic Kingdom and

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Speaker 1: it was hocus Pocus based, and I just remember, like

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Speaker 1: the entire crowd groaned when they said how old it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they literally said it's been thirty something years since we

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Speaker 1: had last appeared, or something along on those lines. Twenty

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Speaker 1: something years. And Lauren was with us from Savor, and

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Speaker 1: the three of us looked at each other and I

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Speaker 1: think I really had a moment of crisis. I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what what just happened? And I had to count back

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Speaker 1: to like prove, oh, no, that's not right, and then

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, it is. And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say down now. Yeah. It was hilarious the grown

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Speaker 1: that reverberated through the crowd. Why did they have to

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Speaker 1: be specific and say it's been so many years sisters,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, what, Yeah, that they definitely were. I

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Speaker 1: feel like they were messing with the crowd of that one.

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Speaker 1: Um on the other side of the coin. I've also

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Speaker 1: mentioned on this show how I never watched The Witches

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Speaker 1: as a kid because we we owned it, but the

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Speaker 1: cover terrified me. Um. But yes, Samantha has fixed that

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Speaker 1: and I have now seen it. It's also on Netflix

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Speaker 1: if you want to check it out. Is it on

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Speaker 1: Netflix now? Okay? Because I just have my own copy.

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Speaker 1: I have searched for a copy for years trying to

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Speaker 1: find that movie, and I finally was able to find

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Speaker 1: a copy and it was really expensive, surprisingly, not really,

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Speaker 1: but like more expensive than the others. And I'm like, wow, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: And of course it's not like re digitally mastered or anything.

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Speaker 1: It's just it is as bad as it was. You.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know it then, but the way it was

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Speaker 1: made whatever, But what did you think after seeing it? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I really liked it. Uh. I loved Angelica Houston. I

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Speaker 1: can see why it's scary, Like, Oh, my kids, it

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Speaker 1: really scared them, not only in kind of the creepy

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Speaker 1: puppet effects, um, but also getting into the history and

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Speaker 1: who was behind this, it makes a lot more sense

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Speaker 1: some shots because I was watching it and and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this has the vibe of one of those really kind

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Speaker 1: of creepy children British shows, kind of like a quiet, understated,

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Speaker 1: ominous undertone that something's just off. Um. So yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. It was unsettling in a way

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Speaker 1: I couldn't quite pinpoint. Um. And it is different in

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Speaker 1: terms of while these are both children's movies, with which

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Speaker 1: is in them, Hocus Focus is much more about like Bumbling,

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Speaker 1: which is who want to live forever? Whereas The Witches

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Speaker 1: is about which just who want to kill all children? Right?

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Speaker 1: Like it's just about vehemently hating all children and getting

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Speaker 1: rid of them in the world and how awful they

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Speaker 1: are and they are nothing but evil. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: a pretty disturbing right when you think about it. Um,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the first time you saw it. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember the first time I saw it. I just

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Speaker 1: know the emotions and being so freaked out. But like

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Speaker 1: also it's just like and we'll talk a bit more

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Speaker 1: like this all the rest of the films around that time.

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Speaker 1: It's like, why does so much tragedy have to happen

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Speaker 1: to make up a story? Especially for children? Children about

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Speaker 1: to say it's true, it's true. I've been giving that

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Speaker 1: a lot of thought lately. Actually. Okay, so let's right

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Speaker 1: with hocus Pocus, which I feel like we really don't

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Speaker 1: have to go into too much detail, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll give an overview. Hocus Pocus was at Disney film

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Speaker 1: directed by Kenny Ortega that stars Yes, Bette Midler, Sarah

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Speaker 1: Jessica Parker, Kathy and Jimmy and thora birch Um. I

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Speaker 1: mean right there, those are all women right in the

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Speaker 1: main cast there. Even though the main story is about

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Speaker 1: like the dude in theory, he really just is kind

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Speaker 1: of not ends up not be like he carries the storyline,

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Speaker 1: but he's not the storyline. Yeah, he's not what you

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Speaker 1: remember about that movie for sure. It's a comedy that

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Speaker 1: follows three witches, the Sanderson sisters, as they terrorize Salem, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: one Halloween night. It also is the story of the

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Speaker 1: older brother younger sister dynamic that kind of sibling rivalry.

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Speaker 1: Is full of hijinks, talking cats, random musical numbers, and

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Speaker 1: so much nineties, so so so much nineties. Lookt up.

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Speaker 1: You got like the tight ice shakes. You've got this

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Speaker 1: like running insult of kind of California liberalism, Hollywood l

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Speaker 1: A judgment going on jabbos, which have you ever heard

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Speaker 1: anyone called boobs jabbos in your life? Was that a thing? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So to me, yabbos is very much like the valley

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Speaker 1: talk that you hear of sometimes in the nineties and

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Speaker 1: nineties were I think because you actually spoiler alert watched

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Speaker 1: Heathers they say it in that too. Did they really?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah they did? And I was like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought this was a totally made up thing. Wow, okay, um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's also this whole idea of virgin lighting the black

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Speaker 1: than candle, which we're going to talk about more in

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Speaker 1: a second. But I read a lot of essays about

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Speaker 1: how if you yes, essays on this movie, if you

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Speaker 1: really think about this is a Disney movie that's preoccupied

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Speaker 1: with sex and a lot of ways. Uh. And apparently

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Speaker 1: some people think Max did have sex at the end

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Speaker 1: of the second act. Let's talk. Samantha's face tells it all.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into that later too. Also, someone in my

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Speaker 1: building's WiFi has named black Thing Candle and I love it.

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Speaker 1: That makes me very happy. You need to be Yes,

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Speaker 1: she's very u feminists, like a till by the bumper

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Speaker 1: stickers on her car. And I finally got to meet

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Speaker 1: her from a distance, and I think where we'd be

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Speaker 1: very best friends indeed. Um. So when this movie came out,

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Speaker 1: it did receive mixed reviews at best. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: on Raight Tomatoes it's got a twenty seven percent yes

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Speaker 1: yes uh. And it lost money at release. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Some places said it lost money. It certainly

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Speaker 1: didn't make money. Uh. It did come out in July,

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Speaker 1: so it's a Halloween movie that came out in July,

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Speaker 1: so that a lot of people were like, well, that

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Speaker 1: was probably part of the problem. Um. But it absolutely

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Speaker 1: did go on to become a beloved cult classic, Like

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Speaker 1: millions of people every year watch it. On free Form

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Speaker 1: which used to be ABC Family. But when I say millions,

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Speaker 1: like eight million. They already released their October playlist. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen it. Actually popped up and

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Speaker 1: it's on there for sure. Oh yeah they I read

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Speaker 1: an interview with somebody who's head of programming there and

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Speaker 1: she said it's like an event like pocus Pocus. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I watch it every year. My dream, one of my dreams,

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Speaker 1: one of my cosplay JEMs, is to one day do

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Speaker 1: the Sanderson Sisters with two other people. Their costumes are

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Speaker 1: pretty complicated though, yeah. Yeah, and whoever does when he

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Speaker 1: is gonna have to really have the hair, Oh my gosh. Yes.

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Speaker 1: To get a bit further into the plot, but not

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Speaker 1: too much, because I do think most of you have

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Speaker 1: probably seen it. The movie opens with Thackeray Banks trying

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Speaker 1: to save his younger sister from the dastard bleie Sanderson Sisters.

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Speaker 1: And yes, his name is Thachery, not Zachary, as a

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Speaker 1: lot of people thought. Um, and the Sanderson Sisters are

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Speaker 1: are these witches that live in the woods near his home.

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Speaker 1: The witches drain his sister Emily of her youth and

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Speaker 1: her life to make themselves appear younger and achieve immortality,

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Speaker 1: and they turn Thacker into a cat after they discover him. However,

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Speaker 1: the sisters are caught by an angry mob of townspeople

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Speaker 1: and they are hung, but not before they and their

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Speaker 1: wonderful book cast a spell to bring them back if

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Speaker 1: a virgin lights the black Fame candle on all Hallow's Eve.

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Speaker 1: Cut to you present day, which is the nineties and Max,

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Speaker 1: who is the main character again purportedly Um a teenager

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Speaker 1: whose family just moved from l A to Salem, and

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Speaker 1: he is oh so angsty teenage not happy about it. Um.

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Speaker 1: Salem is in the midst of their annual Halloween celebrations

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Speaker 1: is really big deal there, including telling the legend of

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Speaker 1: the Sanderson sisters, and Max, also teenage, ankstantly does not

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Speaker 1: buy into it, is not into it, and this leads

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Speaker 1: to a confrontation with Allison and girls into about him

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Speaker 1: being kind of I don't believe in Halloween, and she's like, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: and then he gives her his his digits so smooth,

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Speaker 1: So it's such a smooth operator, you certainly think so yes,

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Speaker 1: and only to be rebuffed and she gives back his number.

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Speaker 1: I did love it. Um. Despite his protesting, Max has

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Speaker 1: to take his younger sister, Danny, who was dressed as

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Speaker 1: a witch out trigger treating who wants to take care

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Speaker 1: of their siblings come on and they end up at

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Speaker 1: Allison's house surprise, and Max, trying to show off, convinces

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Speaker 1: her to take them to the close Sanderson's sister museums,

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Speaker 1: even though Danny, who we should all have believed really

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to um, and Max stupidly likes the black

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Speaker 1: flame candle to prove the sisters aren't real after he

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Speaker 1: asks Allison to do it, but she declines, implying she

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Speaker 1: either has more sexual experience than Max and isn't shy

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Speaker 1: to share it, and or is not going to be

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Speaker 1: peer pressured in to messing with something she doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to mess with. Yeah, I interpret that differently, But of

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Speaker 1: course the sisters are real and they are resurrected, and

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Speaker 1: they proceed to run a muck throughout Salem in song

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Speaker 1: um as they only have until sunrise to drain the

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Speaker 1: life force of children or they will turn into stone.

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Speaker 1: After a series of confrontations, the witches set their sights

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Speaker 1: on Danny, determined to drain her. Of course, the one

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Speaker 1: who said don't do it. Um. And in the end,

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Speaker 1: Max drinks the last of their potions, so they had

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Speaker 1: to drain him instead of his sister. Before they can

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Speaker 1: do this, the sun rises and the senders and sisters

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Speaker 1: turned stone before shattering into dusts and then factary Banks

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Speaker 1: is freed of his cat form and reunites with his

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Speaker 1: sister in the spirit world. Role credits. Yes, and then

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Speaker 1: it's the book kind of looking around, and then it

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Speaker 1: has kind of a post credit scene where it implies

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Speaker 1: that as long as the books around, maybe the story

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Speaker 1: maybe Yes, and I did all of this from memories

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Speaker 1: and it all mistakes her mind, but I feel pretty

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Speaker 1: confident you do it. You wrapped it up perfectly. Also yes,

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Speaker 1: and yes, by the way, Factory is helping them throughout

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Speaker 1: as a cat as a cat. Yeah, and yeah for

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Speaker 1: for being a kids. Maybe a lot of this is

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Speaker 1: about sex um. Some have even argued that Max's virginity

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Speaker 1: is an inversion of the Final Girl Show, a pure

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Speaker 1: male character being chased by female characters, which I've never

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Speaker 1: thought of before, But that is very interesting interpretation of it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can see it. I can see it. Others have

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Speaker 1: rightly pointed out that he has mocked for his virginity

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Speaker 1: in a way that women would not have been. That

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Speaker 1: would have been a pure as sign of purity in

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Speaker 1: a sense that would have put them on a pedestal,

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Speaker 1: although I've also read other interpretations that he's not being

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Speaker 1: mocked for his virginity, he's being mocked for his stupidity

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Speaker 1: for lighting the candle. So uh, there is that at um.

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Speaker 1: It is odd thinking back to it like that. I

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Speaker 1: guess this idea of virginity, even as an eight year

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Speaker 1: old who watched this movie so much my parents banned it,

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Speaker 1: was already there. I don't know, I didn't have those thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think it that way to me, honestly, even

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Speaker 1: back then, to me, it was mocking this kid who

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Speaker 1: needed to show his masculinity by proving that he's not scared,

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Speaker 1: and that to me was what it was more so

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Speaker 1: than anything else, just pretty much mocking toxic masculinity, which

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Speaker 1: I didn't know those terms then, but I'm like, come on, dude,

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Speaker 1: stop being that jerk. Yeah, I do. I think I

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Speaker 1: did it that way too, of like he was trying

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Speaker 1: so hard to show off and they were both saying like,

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Speaker 1: don't do it, and then he did it anyway. Um. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and some people do think that Mac that sex for

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Speaker 1: the first time with Allison at the end of the

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Speaker 1: second act when they think it's over and they were

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Speaker 1: like cuddling on the bed, and therefore read it as

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Speaker 1: a sex positive story. I've never ever thought that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I can see, I mean, you don't know faces true.

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Speaker 1: I mean it does say the black. My innocent heart

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Speaker 1: wants to say they just cuddled and made out and

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Speaker 1: probably broke up a week later. Heart, my innocent cynical

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Speaker 1: My innocent cynical heart wants to believe it that way.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, let's break down some of the characters. It

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Speaker 1: is led by three female anti heroines who are sisters. First,

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Speaker 1: which I do love Winifred Winnie the leader, the smart

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Speaker 1: one obviously kind of a bully, Sarah the sexy airhead

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Speaker 1: but she'll kill you though after she flirts with you.

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Speaker 1: And then Mary, the goofball nurturer. And I have to

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Speaker 1: like they kind of play that same role. Bette Midler

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Speaker 1: and Sarah Jeska Parker and the first wife Scove. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, I agree with that. Um and if you

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00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: look at those roles, um, and a lot of interpretation

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00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: is especially been done on Sarah's character, you can read

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Speaker 1: them as weaponizing society's dismissive attitude towards women as sluts,

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Speaker 1: spinsters are witches because I mean this movie, it's played

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Speaker 1: for laughs, it's a comedy, but I mean, like Sarah,

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Speaker 1: she even threatens that one dude, like they'll kill you. Um,

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Speaker 1: they are on the outskirts of gender norms. And as

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Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot with which is most witches

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Speaker 1: are but they ah. In this kind of telling of

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Speaker 1: these characters, it takes those because everyone dismisses them. You

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Speaker 1: see in the movie everybody, but they are dangerous, um,

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Speaker 1: And people just are assuming, oh, she's a spinster, she

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Speaker 1: can't do anything. Actually she's a spincer and a witch

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Speaker 1: and you should be scared. Um. And this was in

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Speaker 1: contrast to a wave of witches as moral beings to

422
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: aspire to in the nineties like Willow from Buffy, Sabrina

423
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 1: and Charmed. When we did our episode on the Craft,

424
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: the Craft was also kind of in conflict with that

425
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: whole idea. But a lot of these which is coming

426
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: out during Third Wade feminism and the nineties were shifting

427
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: from the previous telling of Oh they're bad too. Oh no,

428
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: they're like paragons of good. Um. So this was kind

429
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: of an interesting take at the time of they were bad,

430
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: but they were also funny and you could relate to them.

431
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: You could connect with these sisters. Um. Yeah, they were

432
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: transgressors of gender roles. They were uh too sexy, too old,

433
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: too ambitious, too ugly. And this movie certainly plays a

434
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: lot as do a lot of movies with which is

435
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: uh on the need versus want of children because they

436
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: don't they don't like children. They don't want children, but

437
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: they do need them right to continue their plans uh

438
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: and b immortal. Um. So that's the the sisters. Then

439
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: you have Max, who's yea the kind of bro character

440
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: older brother. You've got Danny. It was definitely painted as

441
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: the annoying little sister, but she's certainly I don't know,

442
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: I could see it being told from her perspective, and

443
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: it would we would have a different reading on her character.

444
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: But anyway, Alison, who is the love interest but also

445
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 1: very smart, uh, which she figures out the salt circle

446
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Um. Then Dachary binks that you

447
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: believe to older brother lost his sister Emily and was

448
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: turned into a cat by the Sanders and sisters. Many

449
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: of my friends had a crush on him. Oh yeah,

450
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: it was the heartthrow at that point. I think he

451
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: came around doing like Jonathan Taylor, Thomas and all of them,

452
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: so he fit with the shaggy haired, bowl cut hair

453
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: dudes that everyone loved in those in that time frame.

454
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: It's just funny to me because he did spend I

455
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: mean what you see him like that for maybe four

456
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: minutes and the rest of the movie he's a cat.

457
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: We'll take about Do you remember the movie Casper? I

458
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: never saw Casper. Oh well, so in Casper you have

459
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: Devin Sawa and Christina ritchie Um and Devin saw it's

460
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: not even the voice of the ghosts throughout the movie,

461
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: which is animated the entire time, pops up for fifteen seconds,

462
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: and everybody was like, I love him. I'm not gonna lie.

463
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't one of them as well, because they were

464
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: also in um other movies, And I'm like, yeah, but yeah,

465
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: so it doesn't matter. He also was one of the

466
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: shaggy haired blonde kids at that time frame. Okay, that's

467
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: that's funny. I mean, I guess it could be whatever

468
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: you want onto someone who's there so little. I mean,

469
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: it's not like you didn't get to know Factory through

470
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: the cat right exactly. He loved his sibling, he tried

471
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: to save people, He was cursed just like everyone else.

472
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 1: All Right, Okay, I got I mean that's someone who

473
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: loves fictional characters. And is that had a crush on

474
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: a cartoon character before? I can't judge, so was their

475
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: but yeah, speaking of boy crushes at this point, there

476
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: is Billy Butcherson, who was the zombie boyfriend. By the way,

477
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: does he not look like the character from Edward Scissor

478
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: Hands a little bit? Yeah, a little Yeah. Though he

479
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: cheated on Winnie with Sarah, he was the one who

480
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: was punished by Winnie again Sisters first, which is kind

481
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: of a relief. I mean, you don't you can feel

482
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: bad for him, but the same time, at least it's

483
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: not women against women. Yeah. And then of course there

484
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: are two male bullies that get hung in cages after

485
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: harassing the sisters, and of course they pick on everybody

486
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: at the school, so you kind of feel, yeah, you

487
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of want them to be in those cages. So

488
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: there's a cameo by Penny Marshall and her brother Gary Marshall,

489
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: and they are spouses ye in this one, which is

490
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: quite funny and every way, but of course I love

491
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: the two of them anyway, So yes, him just as

492
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: a devil now I remember for sure, just be a

493
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: running theme, some kind of Penny Marshall related fact in

494
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: every movie episode. Amazing. Well, I know Gary and Penny

495
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: would put each other in each other's films or have

496
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: each other like Gary was in a leak of their

497
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: own opinion right, actually directed, but I think they did

498
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: that often. They were really close. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

499
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: um yeah, So that's pretty much hocus focusing. There's all

500
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: these themes of you know, sisterhood and sibling rivalry, but

501
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: also being protective of your sibling in particularly your sisters.

502
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: Um and I don't know. I I have a new

503
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: appreciation for UH because it is a very nostalgic film. Right.

504
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: In certain movies, if you've seen enough, you're not really

505
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: paying attention to anything other than oh, this part makes

506
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: me feel warm because it reminds me of all these

507
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: other things, right, or I can say this line with

508
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: Gusto because I love it. Um. But yeah, now I've

509
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: especially thinking about the context of when it came out,

510
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: having these this close sister rely relationship and these characters

511
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: who are both funny but it are bad and witches

512
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: but everybody loves them. It's pretty rare. Um. So I

513
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: am very excited for another Freewatch starting all over again.

514
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: More witches. Yes, um, So that's that for now, But

515
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: now we need to talk about the Witches. But first

516
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for a quick break for a word

517
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: from res sponsor and we're back, Thank you sponsor. Right, So,

518
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: we did want to talk about these two movies together,

519
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: the Witches and hocus Pocus, because there are specifically made

520
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: and geared as children's movies, but they both have very

521
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: interesting takes on witches and how they represented so we

522
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: thought it would be an interesting contrast to each other. Yeah, yeah,

523
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: for sure. So The Witches is a movie originally adapted

524
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: from the classic novel written by Rhodes All Uh and

525
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: by the way, he did actually see this and uh

526
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: he wasn't a big fan of the movie. According to

527
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: one report, he felt as if the movie was quote

528
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: utterly appalling because of the changes which were happier than his.

529
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: That does not surprise me. Um these changes in the movie.

530
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: And it was produced by Jim Henson Productions and was

531
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: apparently the last movie he was personally involved in. And

532
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: though it wasn't actually a big hitting theaters either, critics

533
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: were fans of it. And it still has a Route

534
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: Tomato scare, so it's better than August Focused. Yes, it

535
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: was even given three out of four stars by famous

536
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: film critic Robert Ebert. And yes, it also has a

537
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: big cult following. I guess I'm a part of that

538
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: cult obviously. Um So. The movie was directed by Nicholas Rogue,

539
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: who was already known for his horror movie Don't Look Now,

540
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: which Annie you watched? Yes, I actually watched his right

541
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: March fourteenth, right when Quarantine started, and I was looking

542
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: for that give of his Donald's something it's not done well,

543
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: that guy where he points and he has the look

544
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: of horror on his face. But this that's actually Invasion

545
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: of the Body Santras. So I watched this whole movie

546
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: waiting for that, haven't never did. But then I watched

547
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: Invasion of the Body Snatchers and I loved it. But anyway, yeah,

548
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: that's why when you told me this, Samantha, I was like, oh,

549
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: I can see it. Yeah. So him being the director

550
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: of this horror movie, he had plenty of controversy under

551
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: his belt and was a surprising choice to direct a

552
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: children's film, as most of his works were seen as

553
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: overly risque and even too explicit at that time, and

554
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: some of them movies were shelved apparently because it was

555
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: too much. And unsurprisingly, the movie has been deemed by

556
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: many people as the scariest children's movie ever, and I

557
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: would agree. And although although I do love this movie,

558
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: I was surprised to see so many articles written about

559
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: it this year. But it turns out, as I said,

560
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: this March the thirtieth anniversary of the film release, so

561
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: it's been thirty years since it's been released. As well

562
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: the fact that they're now talking about doing a remake

563
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: with Anne Hathaway playing the Grand High Witch and directed

564
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: by Robert Zemecka's so that should be interesting. Accidentally timely, Yeah,

565
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: I really do is real and many have contended to

566
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: argue that this was one of the most terrifying movies

567
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: ever made for children. So there's a debate about like,

568
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: is it just terrifying because it's a children's movie, or

569
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: is it just terrifying and why are children watching it? So?

570
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: Rogue even stated that at one point his child watched

571
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: some of the dailies, I guess, and his child was

572
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: so terrified that he realized he needed to edit several

573
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: of the scenes. So I wonder what that looked like. Um,

574
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: And I definitely have lasting memories of the many terrifying

575
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: scenes that kept me awake for sure. Yeah, oh no,

576
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: I can't definitely see as I was watching it, they

577
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: were scenes where I'm like, oh, I'm sure that would

578
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: have kept me up. Yeah. I had a real weird

579
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: thing about paintings and getting trapped in meeting. You know,

580
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: I have a weird thing about like people in paintings

581
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: and when they're watching they're watching me. Well maybe it

582
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: came from this. Maybe. So for the plot, we meet

583
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: Luke played by Jason Fisher and his grandmother Helga played

584
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: by Madge Setter and in Norway, and she's telling Luca

585
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: all these cautionary tales of witches who not only walk

586
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: among all of us, but they actively work to get

587
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: rid of all of the children in the world. The witches, though,

588
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: are good at hiding among regular people and can actually

589
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: they can be spotted because they have a purple tint

590
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: in their eyes, a rash on their head as they

591
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: are bald and have to wear wigs. They wear gloves

592
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: because they have claws and no toes, so square feet,

593
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: and an obvious dislike of the smell of children two,

594
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: which is they smell like dog droppings. And this is

595
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: actually another interesting thing I noticed when I was thinking

596
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: about witches in children's movies, is they often have like

597
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: a smell a version two children, and it's it's usually

598
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: like some kind of waste by products, right. I remember

599
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: when she said droppings. It was so weird to me

600
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: being from fellow j Georgia, and of course they're you know,

601
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: and I think Norway, and I'm like, wait, what droppings?

602
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: Was drippings? What are droppings? So much? It's fancier than

603
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: it really does. It's like it just made it up

604
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: so much more upscale. And of course the cleaner they are,

605
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: the worst they smell. So to bring home the reality

606
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: of the dangers of these witches, Helga tells of her

607
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: friend who disappeared from their village. As the family of

608
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: Erica scrambles to find her. We see her pop up

609
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 1: in a painting that was recently purchased by her father.

610
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: Not only has she suddenly appeared in a painting, but

611
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: we see her reposition at different places at different times,

612
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: and she even grows up in the painting until one

613
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: day she disappears. That's saying, freaked me out. Yeah. So

614
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: we come back to the present day and we meet

615
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: the parents as they rush off for their date event,

616
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: leaving Luke with his grandmother, And at this point he

617
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: has his first interaction with a witch. As he plays

618
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: in his treehouse. He meets a woman who tries to

619
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: entice him with chocolates into snake. By the way, that

620
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: would not work for me, but Lucas obviously too smart

621
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: for that and calls out for his grandmother, who, by

622
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: the way, is told by the witch that she could

623
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: not hear him, so she could not help him. Freaky Yeah,

624
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: that's his freaky uh. Later, we come back to the

625
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: sad fact that Luke's parents have died in a car

626
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: accident because yes, obviously all children's movies must have some

627
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: type of tragedy, and he moves in with his grandmother, Helgan,

628
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: and they moved to England, in their new life, we

629
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: see more obstacles for the parents. Helga is diagnosed with

630
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: diabetes and is told she must learn to manage her health.

631
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: So we cut to Luke and Helga going on a

632
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: much needed vacation in a very spanky hotel soon after

633
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: Luke's birthday uh, in which she's gifted with some white mice.

634
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: There there we meet Bruno, a very hungry, rich boy

635
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: that loves to sneak some of the lovely tea cakes

636
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: before everyone else. His character reminded me he was one

637
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: of the things where it's like, this feels very British. Yeah.

638
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 1: I don't know why, just the way he speaks feels

639
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: very British. It's not necessarily even his accent, just something

640
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: about it. I've never read the book, uh, but do

641
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,959
Speaker 1: love a lot of the children's book Raal Dhald did.

642
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: But this is very similar to that character in Matilda,

643
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: the boy who take So I wonder if he has

644
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: this as a theme for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

645
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: So it's at this point we learned at the hotel

646
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: is awesome hosting a convention for which is of course

647
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: masqureating as the Royal Society for the Prevention of cruelty

648
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: to children. Uh, here we meet the Grand High Witch,

649
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: played by none other than the wonderful Angelica Houston and

650
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: her assistant, Miss Irving. Yeah, this is when it gets

651
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: a good Luke while exploring the grounds and running away

652
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: from the hotel manager played by Mr Bean if you

653
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: all know who I'm talking about, the famous English actor

654
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: with his pet mice. We see that they've come together

655
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: to advise a plan to rid the world of children

656
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: by turning them into mice with a potion that would

657
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: be shared all over the world. And can we talk

658
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: about the revel for Angelica Houston and her face as

659
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: the actual witch, masterfully done by Jim Henson's crew. Of course,

660
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: her high, shrill voice and disdain like it gave me nightmares,

661
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: like even when she's like talking and heaving almost like

662
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: she's gonna vomit. Yeah, giving nightmares. It's not gonna lie.

663
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: And it's at this point they bring in their demonstration.

664
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: Poor Bruno, Poor poor Bruno, he's turned into a mouse,

665
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: um and we see him scurry away. That whole thing

666
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: was nightmarish, like his little seizure and the green power

667
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: what does that green fog everywhere? But of course Luke

668
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: has seen all of this and has discovered them. And

669
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: after he is discovered to have been spying, Luca escapes

670
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: to his room only to find his grandmother unconscious in

671
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: their room. And by the way, they're kind of relationship

672
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: between the Grand High Witch and the grandmother that they

673
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: hadn't met before. And I think, yes, and the grandmother

674
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: lost her tips of her fingers or no, the grandmother

675
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: lost one of our fingers to the Grand High Witch.

676
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: Just put that in there. Luke is then caught and

677
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: turned into a mouse. Mhmm, but no fear because Luke

678
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: using his mass abilities like crawling and his tail. Of course,

679
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,479
Speaker 1: thinking this with the tail, he sneaks the potion into

680
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: the soup served to the witches, turning them into mice,

681
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: all but one, Miss Irving, who was banned from celebrating

682
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: the rest of the witches. So both Bruno and Luke

683
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: are reunited with their families and all they all return home,

684
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: But unlike the book ending, Miss Irving has become a

685
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: good witch and not only turns Luke back into a boy,

686
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: but goes on to set Bruno back as well. And yes,

687
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: Doll hated this ending, as he argued witches were unredeemable

688
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: and cruel. So Rogue actually did do two endings, one

689
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: to satisfy a doll and to go more with a book,

690
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: and the original happy or one that we see. And

691
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: when they did the test screen test, yeah, everyone hated.

692
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: This is like the reverse shining. The shining is the

693
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: opposite in a weird way. Yeah, so it was like, okay, interesting, Um,

694
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: so they kept the happier ending, which I'm not gonna lie.

695
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: If it was a bad ending, there may have been

696
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: a chance that I couldn't have watched it. I mean,

697
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: that would have been a very tough thing as a kid.

698
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: I was upset, Like when we were watching and I

699
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, he's gonna be a mouse forever. Wow,

700
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Like he's the resolved for it. But I'm like white.

701
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: So there are some themes in controversy within this movie,

702
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: of course. Um there's quite a bit of conversation about

703
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: the whole women hating children thing, women who can only

704
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: be either haggard or cruel or mothers and caregivers and

705
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: actually played a lot on the stranger danger fearmongering from

706
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: this film. So we wanted to talk a little out it.

707
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: As I told you, there were several articles about pretty

708
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: much about why this is one of the most scary

709
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: movies ever for children. UM. The continued conversation though, had

710
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: come up on the Hag and Spencer versus the mother Protector,

711
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: which is an obvious scene to this movie. You have

712
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: one or the other, whether it's turning the idea that

713
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: women are all maternal and carrying versus women who ripped

714
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: children away from their families and are evil and thrive

715
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: on the demise of children they never wanted. It's very

716
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: divisive and it gets pretty. It gets dark pretty quickly,

717
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: as we mentioned in the Tale of the Disappearing young Girl,

718
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: seriously eerie to me um. And then if we look

719
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: at feminism in this movie. Uh So. The point that

720
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: the film was used to tell tell the tale of

721
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: the unhappy, motherless hag who murders are sometimes steels children

722
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: has made many people feel that this is a stereotypically

723
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: misogynistic cautionary tales. Some have recently say they felt it

724
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: was more forthinking. According to an article UM they say

725
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: off through Caroline Kitneys have used it as quote a

726
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 1: hilarious feminist commentary on women, work and family, where men

727
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 1: are ineffective and women possess more power, something they might

728
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: prove horrifying to those frantically upholding the patriarchy. Right, so

729
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: it's gonna have been a back and forth with them

730
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: about is this feminist or is this anti feminist? Should

731
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: we be upset or should we laugh? I I interpreted

732
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: it as almost satirical, as almost like you're so afraid

733
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: of women with power, and this is what scares you.

734
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, like that there was some element of

735
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,479
Speaker 1: it that was almost giving a knowing wink of like, yes,

736
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: there is the stereotype of ugly hag women who want

737
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: to kill children, But what does that say about the

738
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: fact that there is that stereotype? Right? So it does

739
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: go back and forth. Yeah, so, but back then it

740
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: was just so upfront, and it was that point of

741
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: third wave feminism. So, so who is the villain here?

742
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: You know? Is it women in general who don't want children?

743
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: Or is it that the patriarchy have to pen and

744
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: only can categorize these two very deep for children's movie

745
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: so also, and one of the big things that I

746
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: saw was the stranger danger concept um and as many

747
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: have stated, this brought fear for children with a new

748
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: concept of stranger danger, which came around in the eighties.

749
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: Not only does this movie immediately place that fear within

750
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: a child's mind, but the movie and the book flips

751
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: it with women instead of men. Um Here is the

752
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 1: hatred of children that drives them, and as a child

753
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: of the eighties nineties, that's something children were taught to

754
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: fear the whole. Strangers offering candy is a perfect setup

755
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: that's gonna get you, so you must be aware and

756
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: be cautious. Yeah. Actually, ever on Saber were just an

757
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: episode on the ice Cream Truck and it was so

758
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: interesting to me because they read all of these like

759
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: beautiful nostalgic love memories people had with ice cream truck,

760
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, when I grew up, even at

761
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 1: four years old, I was like, no way in hell,

762
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: right am I going follow up music to kick I

763
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: meaning me buy it. It's not different than the store,

764
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: but it just felt so creepy, like here's this song,

765
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: go outside and just hope that nothing's gonna happen to me, right, Definitely.

766
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: There were some cases in the eighties where children were

767
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: abducted in unmarked vans, and that's kind of that play

768
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: that came in. So you have this whole time when

769
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: we talked about good touch bad touch, it was always

770
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: that stranger danger level of conversation. Yea, in this movie

771
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: and possibly the book, brought that into context this here's

772
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 1: and not only that, but trying to make you feel

773
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: comfortable with women, saying that women cannot be the predators here,

774
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: but they are so. Yeah. They That definitely gets into

775
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: the mind very quickly, and for children who wants to

776
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: be get dapped, no right. So to say that this

777
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: movie leaves a lasting impression or an impact is an understatement,

778
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: and many still agree again that the overall horror of

779
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: this film is one for the record books and many

780
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: both still have is the number one movie of the

781
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: scariest childhood movies that exist? Yeah, and again these artist

782
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: because these articles were written the last couple of months. Yeah,

783
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: I was surprised how many articles I found. It's like

784
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: pages of them were like the scariest children's movie of

785
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: all time? Right, he look, yes, I agree, yes, but

786
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 1: I'm interested to see the rebate because they did talk

787
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: about Robert Remcca said that he was making it more

788
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: a social Yeah, it's it's like it's said in the

789
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. Jim courier. Yeah, and it's a black child. Yes,

790
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: so Octavia Spencer will be playing the grandmother, which is

791
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: kind of funny because the other grandmother was about fifteen

792
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: years older than her. Yeah, well, we'll have to see it,

793
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: certainly will be. We're getting two remakes of these things. Well, okus,

794
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: focus is getting sequel, that is getting rebeca. Yes, um,

795
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: so we did want to talk about some overall themes

796
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: when it comes to which is children's movies. But first

797
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for one work up break for a

798
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: word frommer sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So

799
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: originally we were gonna get into we we both we

800
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: thought of prominent examples. But the more I thought about this,

801
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: the more I feel like we're both very influenced by

802
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 1: the product the movies that were coming out in our era,

803
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: because like Sabrina was one we thought about. Which was

804
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: an interesting, um contrast, because we do have the Netflix remake,

805
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: which is much not not I would call it a

806
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: children made for children, um, but the one in the

807
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: nineties certainly was. I mean it was a T G

808
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: I Friday Moves show, right, Yeah, yeah, I actually never

809
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: saw it, but I I mean even just the clips

810
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: and the vibe. I was like, oh, yeah, you never

811
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: watched that? No, was that on cable? I didn't have

812
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: a cable. It wasn't on cable. It was on I

813
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: believe it was on ABC. Was on a Family Night

814
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: show for a long while. I know it was rebroadcast

815
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: on what used to be free Form whatever it was

816
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: before then for a little while. Yeah, so, but it

817
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: was Clarissa explains at all who was Nickelodeon jumped into

818
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: that the show as a teenager with Harvey and all

819
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: of them. But yeah, the new ones are definitely completely different. Um.

820
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the whole thing that there wasn't prominent

821
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: devil worshiping in the nineties sitcom Oh surprise, surprise. But

822
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: they have thought D and D was seven in Demons. Um. Well, yeah,

823
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: so the groups of examples we thought of, it really

824
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: does split pretty down the middle of like, you do

825
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: have this good witch who it's almost over the top

826
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: up good um, and then you have the villain. And

827
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: particularly when you think about Disney movies, which we'll get

828
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: into in a second, there was an era where the

829
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: witch was bad in Disney movies and that's it, and

830
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: that is changing but the reasons that it's changing are fascinating. Um.

831
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: I thought of double double toil and trouble. You you

832
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: often have that kind of dynamic because they were twins

833
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: that it was Clara Stitchman who was originally going to

834
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: be I think in Hocus Polk. No, she's gonna be

835
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: in the witches. Um. But anyway, so you've got the

836
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: good witch and the bad witch. Uh. It's a Wizard

837
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: of Oz kind of dichotomy of you can only be

838
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: one or the other and that's it. You can only

839
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 1: be this sort of maternal thing or this evil children

840
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: hating one. Yeah, and certainly attitudes towards children and youth

841
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: in general. It's just one of the biggest recurring themes

842
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: I could think of in depictions of witches and children's movies,

843
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: and also love, Like when you think of up and

844
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: I know this is not a children's movie, but Practical

845
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: Magic was geared as a teenage movie because it was PG. Thirteen,

846
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: but it kind of has that whole effect as well.

847
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: Of course children are involved in that as well, and

848
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: love and all of that. So you wonder, you're like,

849
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: what what is your ideas here? Yeah? Um, And if

850
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: you think of like hocus focus in particular, uh, sucking

851
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: the youth to peer young and beautiful, and that whole

852
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: idea that women's value and currency in society is their

853
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: youth and their beauty. Um. And like one of the

854
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: reasons they choose to focus on Danny thora Birch's character

855
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: to suck her youth, as she says, You'll always be ugly.

856
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: You're the ugliest thing that's ever lived. And when he

857
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: is so wounded, yeah, by this insult, she's like, I

858
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: have all of these children options that would be much

859
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: easier to get, but you are the one. You you

860
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: have insulted me. Yeah. And it kind of that choosing

861
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: vengeance and and losing everything being too power hungry. Uh,

862
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: perhaps too emotional, I guess you could read it that way,

863
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: and losing everything. And then if you go back to

864
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: Snow White, which is one of the very first I

865
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: mean that was Disney's first movie, you have the queen

866
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: who asks asked a mirror, like, who's the fairest of

867
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: them all? Yeah, she can't stand to not be the

868
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: fairest of them all. She must get rid of any competition. Yes, yes,

869
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,959
Speaker 1: women competing against women. I mean, that's the interesting about

870
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: who's focused. Is there is this kind of like sisterly bond,

871
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: the women competing against women is sort of removed on

872
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: that level, but on a societal level it's still kind

873
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: of there. Um, So that's interesting. And then I did read, Uh,

874
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: there are so many essays This should not have surprised

875
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 1: me at all, but so many as has been written

876
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 1: about Elsa from Frozen. Oh my gosh, yes, is she Yeah,

877
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: it's a power. We don't know that she's got one

878
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: known power anyway. Um. Yeah, So she is one of

879
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: the first Disney which is especially the first I think

880
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: that was good, but also embraced her powers. Um. She

881
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: was also the first to use camp and heightened style femininity,

882
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: not to to know evil. So if you think of

883
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: like Mobile Efficent or Ursula or yes, the Queen from

884
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: Snow White, they all have this like over the top,

885
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: kind of like high college almost theater theatrical style, and

886
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: Elsa doesn't have that at first, but when she goes

887
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: into her big musical number and kind of sheds it all,

888
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: she does, but she's still good. Um. But if you

889
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 1: look at the history of yeah, which is Disney films

890
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: in particular, there's this over the top monstrous female desire

891
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: that aligns it with queerness. But there's also this fear

892
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: of middle aged sexual agency. And as as I was

893
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: reading these essays, there's just some things you don't pick

894
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: up on as a kid, I didn't really get, like

895
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: when Ursula was giving aerial like here's how you get

896
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: a man, and she's like plumping her lips and doing this,

897
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: So I didn't pick up on that. But it's true.

898
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: She's like middle aged sea witch, totally confident in her body.

899
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 1: She loves herself, and I loved her for loving herself, Yes,

900
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 1: but it's painted as a bad bit. It is because

901
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: she had to be demure and quiet. Yeah, yeah, it

902
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: quite power obviously with family power and ambition, the whole

903
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: witchcraft idea and the punishment and evil that comes with it.

904
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: Uh And apparently I didn't realize, but it is changing

905
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: with New Disney. I guess if Elsa can tinues on

906
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: a stretch, is there any more new which is coming about?

907
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: So the essay I'm thinking of, in particular um delved

908
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: into Elsa, um Maleficent, the new uh Angelica, Jolie Ones

909
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: and then um Meredeth who wasn't a witch, but they

910
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: were saying, like she immediately breaks gender norms and is like,

911
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to get married. Maybe I never want

912
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: to get married, go ahead to Clare war Um. So

913
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: kind of that female power and ambition thing. And previously

914
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: when there had been that sort of aberrant which power,

915
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: it was bad and you could see that essaying when

916
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: women have too much powering ambition, it is bad. But

917
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 1: now that I mean people children love Elsa. I don't

918
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: know if you know this, but whoa, um, I've seen it. Yeah,

919
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 1: they and in those movies too, they paint the love

920
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: is in between two women, whether that's like two sisters

921
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: or I haven't seen Maleficent so long, but basically Aurora,

922
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: I'm Levicent um, and then Merida and her mother. Instead

923
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: of it being this like romantic rush to get married,

924
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: first time you meet a guy, it's love and that's

925
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: what you need and then your life it's done and

926
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: happier or after um in that case, your POWERI is

927
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: essentially just finding a man, right, Yes, I was just kidding,

928
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: just completely kidding. I was like, oh, Samath that comes

929
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: out with a very yeah, not at all. And then

930
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like we could just talk about

931
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff forever in a in a

932
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: more detailed episode, and perhaps will be because again it's

933
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: my favorite season and my favorite holiday. But we were

934
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: also discussing how in Harry Potter and and most things

935
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: where you have witches and warlocks and and wizards, and

936
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: it does feel that wizards are you know, there's a

937
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: wiseness attached to them and perhaps more of a maybe

938
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: it's just like less complicated, but it does feel like

939
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: I don't have a natural inclination to think they're bad,

940
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: whereas witches, like, even though I don't think that anymore,

941
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: there is that in the back of my head kind

942
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 1: of Oh wait, I've seen so many bad witches? Is

943
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: that what you mean? Um? And we I mean we

944
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: use it as an insult or we have for in

945
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: our society forever. So I just watched a movie where

946
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: a woman just randomly shouted witch at a bar and

947
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: they tried to kill her. She just said it. Um,

948
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of bad horror reason, but what

949
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: would be a movie that did that? How is it

950
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: called they're watching? It was about a home improvement show

951
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: that went really wrong. Oh yeah, you're digging into something real.

952
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: Dude brought you know, Okay, we're going down the well

953
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: on this one. Um. But yeah, I would love to

954
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 1: return to this and have a more in depth conversation

955
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: about some of these ideas. But but in the meantime,

956
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a pretty good overview, right of

957
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: the themes you see a lot with women and which

958
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: is in these children's movies, right, which I find fascinating. Uh.

959
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: I do want to see more of the ideas that

960
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: we see in adult films to translate into children's films.

961
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 1: And I guess technically Harry Potter did that mm hmm,

962
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: which makes bad but you know whatever, newer ones are

963
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: certainly playing with a lot of this. Again, I found

964
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: I wish I had way more time to prepare because

965
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: I found so manny. So I don't know why I

966
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: just popped in my head the teen which movie from

967
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: eighteen nine? Uh and the worst I think that was

968
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: the worst musical number in the Oh you've got my

969
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: attention now. But essentially it is eighteen rom com that

970
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 1: involves a redheaded witch and I can't remember much about it.

971
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: I remember loving it. Um, yeah, damn, I forgot about

972
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: that one too, all right, Like that might be another

973
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: movie that I have to make you watch, but I'm

974
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. I can't attest to your worth watching.

975
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Okay, Well we'll add it to

976
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: the list and in the meantime, listeners. If you have

977
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: any movie you want us to add to the list,

978
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: please send them our way. Our email is Stuff Media,

979
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can also

980
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You,

981
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks. It's always

982
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks guys. Oh no,

983
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: this is one thank you and thanks to you for

984
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: listening Stuff I've Never Told You. The production of I

985
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: Heart Radio for more podcasts or my Heart Radio is

986
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: about heart radio app Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

987
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.