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Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am My de

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Speaker 1: Gomezrajon and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that

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Speaker 1: explores our past and present through food.

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Speaker 2: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some

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Speaker 2: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture.

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Speaker 1: So make yourself at home, even y'all, this is our

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Speaker 1: last episode of season two. We've covered so much and

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Speaker 1: yet there's still much more.

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Speaker 3: This is thirty.

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Speaker 4: We spent all season exploring so many undertold stories from

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Speaker 4: our history.

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Speaker 1: I know, I love that we started in meso America

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Speaker 1: in season one and then we kind of dip her

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Speaker 1: toes over the Rio Grande.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know, it's funny, like we've covered so much,

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Speaker 4: and I just wanted to say that. I remember the

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Speaker 4: first time I heard you say that you were one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent Mexican and one hundred percent American. I don't

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Speaker 4: know where it was interview or something. I heard you

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Speaker 4: say it, and I was like, wait, what, yes, me too.

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Speaker 4: But it's cause it's almost like when you're you're you

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Speaker 4: grew up in the US and you're in Mexico, you're

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Speaker 4: not Mexican enough, or if you're in Mexico, you're two

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Speaker 4: dinga and it's like, well, who are you?

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Speaker 3: It's this identity and then it's like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: that's my superpower.

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Speaker 4: And so you know, instead of saying, oh, you're neither

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Speaker 4: this nor that, it's like, okay, what if I'm this

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Speaker 4: and that?

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Speaker 1: But not like what if you're this and that and

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Speaker 1: that and that? Like, you know, we're Mexican American, but

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Speaker 1: as I've discovered in my ancestriies, I'm also from Spain,

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Speaker 1: and as you know, we explore this interwhining.

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Speaker 3: Of is that a word intertwining?

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Speaker 1: I'm in Paris, you guys, so it's wine o'clock.

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Speaker 5: For me.

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Speaker 1: This intertwining of cultures is not binary. It's actually straddling

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Speaker 1: the fact that we live in a global community, like

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Speaker 1: the fact that we have so much comino in our foods,

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Speaker 1: in Mexican food, but yet it's from Asia, hibiscus, it's

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Speaker 1: so Mexican, but it really isn't.

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Speaker 3: It's from Africa?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Like what so I feel like I think food is

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Speaker 1: the best way into cultures, and then food is the

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Speaker 1: easiest way I think to understand the people of countries. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like you're like, oh, because then if you're talking about

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Speaker 1: the food of a country, you're talking about the people

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Speaker 1: of a country. And if you're talking about the people,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about their immigration, their displacements, refugees, colonization, conquest,

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Speaker 1: Spanish inquisition. Like, there's a reason why food has so

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Speaker 1: many influences all over the world.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: If we just just take apart the plate of food

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Speaker 4: that we're eating, we understand that we are all connected,

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Speaker 4: we are all intertwined or interwined.

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Speaker 3: But it's so powerful.

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Speaker 1: I think that's why people have responded to our podcast,

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Speaker 1: because they feel like they learn because we're history, but

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Speaker 1: also like I think that makes them feel not only

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Speaker 1: closer to our culture, but like two other cultures. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely. I have to say that one of the

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Speaker 3: most I learned a lot this season. Did you what

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Speaker 3: did you learn?

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Speaker 1: What were your highlights?

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Speaker 4: Well, lots of highlights, But I have to say that

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Speaker 4: one highlight is that I realized that if I were

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Speaker 4: stuck in a deserted island, I would want you with me. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: cause yours to have these massive survival skills from your

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Speaker 4: growing up and throughund And I was thinking I have

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Speaker 4: zero sense of direction, Like people say go north.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, what is that?

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Speaker 4: I have no idea, Like I sometimes have turned left,

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Speaker 4: I turn right.

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Speaker 3: You probably have the most perfect.

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Speaker 1: The best sense of direction. Of course, I know how

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Speaker 1: to find water anywhere in the world, so we wouldn't die.

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Speaker 1: I know how to sew, which means I could met

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Speaker 1: I could be medically useful. I'm sure. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: if the apocalypse happened, you would want to be my

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Speaker 1: friend for sure.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gonna have I'm going to put you down

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Speaker 4: as an emergency contact.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Basically these skills alone. So that was a big highlight

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Speaker 4: for me. But there are there are so many. I mean,

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Speaker 4: what are some of your highlights mine?

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Speaker 1: I love I don't go now. I'm confusing season one

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Speaker 1: and season two. But you know, I loved our Halloween

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Speaker 1: episode about the Inquisition records, and also which we covered

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Speaker 1: in the last season, like the chocolate and where the

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Speaker 1: pointy hat comes from and a witch is brew Like

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Speaker 1: we covered that in season one, but then we expanded

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Speaker 1: it in our Halloween episode. I loved our crypto Jewish

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Speaker 1: episode two because I covered that in Searching for Mexico,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm glad we got to expand on that

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Speaker 1: and Arabic influence history and you know, French and like

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Speaker 1: all of these different influences that we've had in not

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Speaker 1: only Mexican food but American food.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, those were some really really good ones.

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Speaker 4: I also love when we kind of because we grew

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Speaker 4: up here in South Texas.

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Speaker 3: I'm in San Antonio, by the way, you're in Paris.

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Speaker 3: I'm in Santonio.

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Speaker 1: We're most the side of the world glamorous.

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Speaker 4: But this kind of straddling that hyphen right with our

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Speaker 4: female and macaroni and cheese, because we kind of grew

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Speaker 4: up with both of those things in bah Bah bah

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Speaker 4: God to barbecue. I just had some bacles on Sunday.

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Speaker 7: They woo.

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Speaker 3: I mean have not Ato and Laredo.

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Speaker 4: I didn't have them with Big Red No, I had

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Speaker 4: them with coke, but they were from the cheek about

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Speaker 4: goss is amazing. And now that I'm Santonio will probably

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Speaker 4: have some barbecue latter. But I love that, right, learning

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Speaker 4: yes about the inquisition records, but learning that the US

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Speaker 4: Border Patrol was invented to keep Chinese immigrants from crossing

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Speaker 4: the border, you know, in our China to Mexikali episode,

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Speaker 4: like just so much and then just some really really

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Speaker 4: fun ones like the hot dog episode and the popcorn

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Speaker 4: episode and just yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: And the bees. We did Honey. I find honey so fascinating.

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Speaker 3: You know me too.

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Speaker 4: So actually, when we recorded that Honey episode, you asked

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Speaker 4: about the wax in the in the beehive, and then people,

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Speaker 4: my husband particularly, he was like, I was hanging on

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Speaker 4: every word in that episode. And then Eva asked you

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Speaker 4: what about the honey, what about the wax?

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Speaker 3: And you were like, I don't know. He was like,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean you know?

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Speaker 6: No, so.

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Speaker 1: Knows everything. It's like, yeah, I wanted to know.

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Speaker 3: So of course, right after that, I'm just like, what

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Speaker 3: I want to learn down the wax rabbit hole?

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Speaker 4: I went down a wax rabbit hole, so I think

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Speaker 4: that I want to talk about why.

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Speaker 1: What did you find is that?

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Speaker 8: Why?

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Speaker 1: How do bees make wax?

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Speaker 9: Right?

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Speaker 1: Yes? What is it in their body that excreets this material?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: That makes the perfect honeycomb, right, this perfect hexagonal shape.

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Speaker 4: So these young worker bees, right, we learned that all

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Speaker 4: of these worker bees, they're female, but the young ones,

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Speaker 4: the ones that are between ten and twenty days old,

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Speaker 4: they have these special glands on their abdomen that produces

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Speaker 4: these teeny tiny flakes of wax, and then these glands

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Speaker 4: convert sugars from the honey into this waxy substance that

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Speaker 4: is secreted as these tiny little transparent scales from the glands.

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Speaker 3: And then the.

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Speaker 4: Bees choose these wax flakes to soften them and make

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Speaker 4: them more mouldable, and they start attaching these little wax

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Speaker 4: plays to the hive structure, and then they naturally build

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Speaker 4: circular cells. But there's so many bees in the beehive

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Speaker 4: and they're working so close together that they heat from

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Speaker 4: their tiny little bodies starts softening the wax, and they

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Speaker 4: allow the wax to merge into these sagonal shapes. And

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Speaker 4: it's all due to the surface tension and this mechanical

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Speaker 4: you know, pressure, And so the hexagons are the best

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Speaker 4: shape to maximize space while using the least amount of

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Speaker 4: wax and ensuring that the hive is super strong and

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Speaker 4: can store the honey efficiently.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot wild.

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Speaker 1: So the shape is because it's the most efficient shape.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you could fit more hexagons.

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Speaker 1: If there are a circle you have, you could stack it.

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Speaker 1: How do they know that? How do they know that?

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Speaker 1: It's just.

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Speaker 3: It's mother Nature, Mother Nature, mother Nature. Yeah, it's really

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Speaker 3: it's really brilliant.

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Speaker 4: And just to produce one pound of wax, these consume

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Speaker 4: six to eight pounds of honey, and we talked about that,

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Speaker 4: it's like a tiny little drop of honey that they produce.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's a brilliant, brilliant example of team.

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Speaker 1: More natural engineering and teamwork. All right, everyone, we've got

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Speaker 1: so much more after the break, so stay with us.

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Speaker 1: So this season we focused a lot on the Rio Grande,

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Speaker 1: and I guess, depending on which side you're on, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're either fighting to get in or fighting to get out.

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Speaker 1: You're either the oppressor or the oppressed. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like we had some pretty interesting stories that stood out.

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Speaker 1: You found Sylvia Weber.

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Speaker 4: Actually, Arlene our amazingly brilliant producer, found Sylvia Weber and

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Speaker 4: she shared an article with me, and then of course

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Speaker 4: I went down this crazy rabbit hole. It's like, how

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Speaker 4: could I have not learned about Sylvia Weber in growing

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Speaker 4: up in Laredo, Right, I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, it's crazy, but it's not in your history

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Speaker 1: book says something one hundred percent, yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: So Sylvia Webber, she was a freedom fighter helping enslaved

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Speaker 4: Africans get to freedom in Mexico during the Civil War.

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Speaker 4: In the US, right, nobody knows about her. She's buried

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Speaker 4: in the Rio Grande Valley.

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Speaker 3: She should have a monument, like.

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Speaker 4: We should have all visited her when we were in school.

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Speaker 4: But she is really a prime example of what happens

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Speaker 4: when you erase history, or when you deliberately omit somebody

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Speaker 4: from history and there is record. I mean, we spoke

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Speaker 4: to Leslie Deutcher Trevigno and O. J. Trevigno, who were

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Speaker 4: He's a descendant of Sylvia Weber, and she was talking

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Speaker 4: about this, right, like do you when you deliberately omit history,

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Speaker 4: because there was a lot of record about her, a

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Speaker 4: lot of written record ripped torn. One of this Confederate

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Speaker 4: colonels was talking about how threatening she and her husband

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Speaker 4: John were, so there was written record, These records were

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Speaker 4: let's just you know, let's just not include this. And

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Speaker 4: so I found that story, that conversation with them and

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Speaker 4: with you just so fascinating and really mind blowing.

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Speaker 7: The Webers were pretty well known.

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Speaker 9: I mean, there's a town called Weberville outside of Travis,

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Speaker 9: Like it's in Travis County, sixteen miles south of Austin,

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Speaker 9: and they were well known to have helped people, and

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Speaker 9: that's actually in several different accounts, given they were Union sympathizers,

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Speaker 9: in fact, so much so that four during the Civil

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Speaker 9: War went out of his way to find them and

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Speaker 9: arrest them in the Rio Grande where they were living

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Speaker 9: in Texas at that time after they moved, and they

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Speaker 9: stuck in his cross so badly that they're actually mentioned

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Speaker 9: by name in his very long winded auto biography that

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Speaker 9: he wrote.

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Speaker 7: And so it is there. It's just been very intentionally

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Speaker 7: kind of washed over to make it go away, because

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Speaker 7: Texas has done a master job of rebranding itself in

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Speaker 7: terms of cowboys, trails, drives, rodeos, that kind of thing,

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Speaker 7: to erase its history that is so entrenched in slavery.

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Speaker 7: That's what this economy Texas was built on. That economy,

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Speaker 7: and Austin said Texas must be a slave country, and

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Speaker 7: so that was the very foundation of it. And the

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Speaker 7: Webers are there and they're mentioned. It's just, like I said,

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Speaker 7: been very overlooked intentionally, even so much so that descendants

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Speaker 7: weren't aware of their own ancestry. Sadly, as things keep

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Speaker 7: going the way they are, I think it might stay

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Speaker 7: that way if you know, the powers that be have

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Speaker 7: their way.

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Speaker 5: I'm a fifth generation descendant from Sylvia and John Webber

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Speaker 5: and also the secretary of the Weber Family Preservation Project.

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Speaker 5: Sylvia was brought into Texas through her enslaver and then

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Speaker 5: John also came down through Texas because he was a

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Speaker 5: big tobacco smuggler, right, so he kind of was working

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Speaker 5: his way south and that was just kind of part

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Speaker 5: of his route and what he was doing, and settled

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Speaker 5: into Texas, and then I believe we have documented it

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Speaker 5: somewhere around eighteen twenty nine. I think is somewhere where

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Speaker 5: we kind of estimate that John and Sylvia met and

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Speaker 5: kind of started their relationship and started having children, you know,

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Speaker 5: right around that time, you know a little bit after that,

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Speaker 5: while she was still enslaved, right, they had three children

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Speaker 5: while she was still enslaved by John Cryer. And this was,

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Speaker 5: like I said, between eighteen twenty nine and eighteen thirty

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Speaker 5: four than in eighteen thirty four. June eleventh, eighteen thirty

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Speaker 5: four is when they secured her freedom from John Cryer,

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Speaker 5: and that's where those were the freedom papers that Maria

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Speaker 5: found when she was working on her you know, doctor

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Speaker 5: thesis at the University of Texas, And I mean, that's

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Speaker 5: that was an amazing find because that has really helped

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Speaker 5: us find so much more and open the door for

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Speaker 5: us finding that information into where we are, you know today,

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Speaker 5: because there's kind of so much in there that you

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Speaker 5: can read, you know, in those papers. You know, the

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Speaker 5: the ask you know, for for her freedom and that

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Speaker 5: of her three children at the time were two other

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Speaker 5: children under the age of three, a male and a

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Speaker 5: female under the age of three was the ask. Now

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Speaker 5: inside of those papers, what they worked in was if

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Speaker 5: they did not pay in children or in life or life,

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Speaker 5: then they had their land up for collateral right. And

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Speaker 5: by that time they had already established their Weberville land,

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Speaker 5: which at that time was called Weber's Prairie. But they

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Speaker 5: had already established that land, and that was somewhere in

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Speaker 5: the three thousand and five thousand acres and where in

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Speaker 5: that range.

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Speaker 8: So it was quite a bit of land that they

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Speaker 8: put up for collateral right. And that's kind of what

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Speaker 8: we knew for a little while. And then again Maria

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Speaker 8: through her work found papers where John Weber forfeited the

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Speaker 8: land to John Cryer as part of disagreement and fulfilling

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Speaker 8: these freedom papers. After that, you know, that's you know

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Speaker 8: again in eighteen thirty four, right then they were in

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Speaker 8: Weberville until eighteen fifty, which is when they signed over

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Speaker 8: those that land over to to Crier. They you know,

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Speaker 8: from eighteen thirty four eighteen fifty, they were in there.

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Speaker 8: They got a tutor, they were tutoring their children. They

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Speaker 8: ended up having another eight nine children. I think they

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Speaker 8: had thirteen until litt twelve survived to adulthood, so you know,

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Speaker 8: they had several children, you know, after that between eighteen

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Speaker 8: thirty four and eighteen fifty, and they got kicked out

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Speaker 8: of their own town because as more white settlers coming

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Speaker 8: in and realizing, you know, this is an interracial couple.

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Speaker 8: They are tutoring their children exactly right, and you know,

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Speaker 8: how dare they you know, even want to educate their children, right,

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Speaker 8: And so educating their children, the tutor started receiving death threats,

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Speaker 8: you know, I mean, it was just you know, not

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Speaker 8: good conditions. So they started making their way down to

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Speaker 8: the valley and settled in Donna, Texas in eighteen fifty three,

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Speaker 8: is where they settled and purchased I think again over

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Speaker 8: eight thousand acres of land and a big portion to

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Speaker 8: had and it was again right along the river banks

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Speaker 8: there in the real Grande Leslie has researched and the

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Speaker 8: doctor Hammock of research is that the knowledge that Sylvia

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Speaker 8: had and brought right from her time of being enslaved

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Speaker 8: and having to work with you know, flat bottom boats

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Speaker 8: and stuff like that, that was the education that she

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Speaker 8: used and the knowledge that she used you know, across

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Speaker 8: the river to help you know, free enslaved people.

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Speaker 4: And even like the Rancho Cooking episode when we had

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Speaker 4: Adan Medrano on the show, I found all of that

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Speaker 4: super interesting in the native roots in this area of

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Speaker 4: South Texas that I mean, I just really it just

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Speaker 4: really made me realize what a crap education I got

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Speaker 4: in elementary school in high school.

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Speaker 1: Well, we know, indigenous contributions have been largely erased from history,

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Speaker 1: much less astronomy, you know, much less cuisine, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, even when you think about Mexico and how

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Speaker 1: corn has survived as the major you know ingredient, and

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Speaker 1: you know they had corn gods and and when the

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Speaker 1: when the Spanish conquest came, you know, to try to

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Speaker 1: pull them away from this idolization of of corn and

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Speaker 1: the gods and that it's still alive today. Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that was fascinating me. And that's like often erased

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Speaker 1: I think in US history.

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Speaker 4: And even like and we didn't this is one of

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Speaker 4: the episodes that we wanted to record that we didn't

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Speaker 4: get to Amaranth and Quinua. It's like things like that

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Speaker 4: that they the colonizers tried to ban it. But it's

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Speaker 4: like it's a little seed. It's going to travel and

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Speaker 4: it's going to keep growing. It's like here we are.

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Speaker 4: It's this sort of the perfect metaphor for that, right

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Speaker 4: for that the land does it lie? You know, it's

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Speaker 4: it's this is where we are and this is where

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Speaker 4: we're going to be forever. And so again always going

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Speaker 4: back to the food because this is where we see

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Speaker 4: our roots. And also just this adaptation with this movement

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Speaker 4: of people. It's like, oh yeah, you know, food adapts

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Speaker 4: to ingredients that are available. And I find that that

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Speaker 4: is really interesting too, because it's constantly evolving, just like

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Speaker 4: we are, right, We're moving around and foods are evolving

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Speaker 4: and foods are changing, and I just.

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Speaker 1: To feel to me it's exciting to dig it back

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Speaker 1: up because this deliberate erasure, this deliberate omission of history,

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Speaker 1: you know, defunding schools or moving words from federal government websites,

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Speaker 1: changing the Gulf of Mexico's name, like this deliberate omission.

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Speaker 1: It just diminishes people and cultures. And I just feel

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of consequences, like what happens with erasure,

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Speaker 1: you know, the alimal happens. You know, it's portrayed this

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Speaker 1: as this heroic stand against oppression, but in reality was

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Speaker 1: really motivated by texas desire to preserve slavery. And there's

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Speaker 1: just this huge rebranding of history that's happening in real

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Speaker 1: time right now, and it's scary. It's so scary, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm glad we are history adjacent, you know, by

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Speaker 1: talking about food and we can bring up all of

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Speaker 1: these issues. We had some great episodes that were pretty

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Speaker 1: politically you know, the colonized diet. We had street vendors

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Speaker 1: and what's happening to them. There were so many things

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Speaker 1: that are that are really politically adjacent that we hit

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Speaker 1: this season that I was really proud to explore and

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Speaker 1: to bring to light.

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Speaker 3: Me too, me too.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you use the word proud, because that's how

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Speaker 4: I feel about the work that we've done. It's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're telling these stories, you know, we're and always from

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Speaker 4: the lens of food, right because just this eratio that

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Speaker 4: is happening right now. You know, it's so important to

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Speaker 4: keep these stories alive, right because you know, these historical

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Speaker 4: narratives can be suppressed, you know, for political agenda. Right,

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Speaker 4: Some groups yes to erase or alter history to promote

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Speaker 4: their own ideologies. And this is really really dangerous because

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Speaker 4: it leads to the silencing of voices and the denial experiences.

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Speaker 1: It also distorts the overall understanding of the past, right,

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Speaker 1: Like we're like, oh, Indians were savages. You're like, no,

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Speaker 1: they weren't. Now they weren't.

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Speaker 3: They're humans.

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Speaker 1: They were protecting their tribes, they were protecting their land.

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Speaker 1: And that's why, like when you talk to somebody ignorant,

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Speaker 1: you're like, no, baybe, you don't have the full story.

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Speaker 1: That did not happen or did not happen that way.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a problem today, is like we

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Speaker 1: don't know where to find the truth because media news websites,

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Speaker 1: we're all in our little lebbles, and we're just going

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Speaker 1: to get keep getting fed our point of view, right,

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Speaker 1: the algorithm is going to give you more things that

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Speaker 1: validate your side. And so very little people are trying

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Speaker 1: to learn from the past, and very little people are

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Speaker 1: trying to find both sides of an argument. They're really

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Speaker 1: just invested in being validated, their side being validated, their

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Speaker 1: point of view being validated. And so I just think

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Speaker 1: it what we're doing I'm proud of because we can share,

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Speaker 1: we can have this shared identity and this shared purpose,

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Speaker 1: and we are allowing people to connect with this, with

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Speaker 1: this collective past that we're all interwined. You're all intertwined.

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Speaker 1: That is a wrap of season two, Hungry for History.

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Speaker 1: There are so many stories out there that we are

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel like we're just scratching the surface.

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Speaker 1: Mike and I always call each other like what about this?

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Speaker 1: What about that? What about this? So we want to

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Speaker 1: end the show by giving our listeners the last word

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Speaker 1: of this season, Mitha. Do you want to share some

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Speaker 1: of the messages that we received?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I wanted to share some recent reviews.

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Speaker 4: My Farmer's Market basket said, such fun I love the

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Speaker 4: rapport and conversation between the two hosts, and I love

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Speaker 4: what I learn and how I learn it. This may

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Speaker 4: be my favorite food podcast, food based podcast.

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Speaker 1: I love that we do have good rapport.

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Speaker 6: We do, and we also cooke this season, I freeven

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Speaker 6: forgot about that. We cooked and we ate the season

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Speaker 6: and we started off the season making cogtails. And then

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Speaker 6: Brandy's two cents said, loving the education, Thank you ladies

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Speaker 6: for providing education on topics from the history of eggs

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Speaker 6: to the history of enslaved Africans. So refreshing to hear

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Speaker 6: unbiased information these days, and you warm my heart and

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Speaker 6: expand my knowledge at the same time.

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Speaker 3: Never stop.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, look, if I could get Mita to eat eggs,

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Speaker 1: I forget MYEA to eat eggs. We have accomplished something,

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Speaker 1: my friends. Well, thank you everybody for listening. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us on this journey for season.

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Speaker 3: Two, Thank you all so much, and thank you Eva.

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Speaker 3: So come on.

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Speaker 1: Hungary for History is a hyphen Media production in partnership

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Speaker 1: with Iheart's Michaeltura podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.