1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, Welcome 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, my name 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: is They call me Ben. We are joined as always 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. We'd like to 10 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: do a check in at the beginning of the every 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: show nowadays. Right, feeling good, feeling great? How are you 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: pretty good? Um? Not too bad, not too great? You 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: can in the middle of the road. I don't know. 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: I never feel like I have anything to add at 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: this juncture of the show. I feel like I'm just 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: like a blank slate. Well, I'll give you something. I 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: do it. Finally went to go see a movie after 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: all these years of not seeing movies. I got to 19 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: see the new Tarantino film. I really wanted to go 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: with you guys. Yeah, once once upon a time in Hollywood, 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: I had my daughter in and that not kid friendly 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: film as a it is not no, certainly not but 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: in this film there is a small part for certain 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: Kurt Russell, who you know shows up in another Tarantino movie, 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: and he has a really interesting connection to today's topic. 26 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: He does yes, which will come to the forefront. Assume 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: as always as you listen along, if the spirit so 28 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: moves you, give us a call and let us know 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: your thoughts. You can reach us directly. We are one 30 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. And 31 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: if you are feeling particularly charitable, why not leave us 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: a review on your podcast platform of choice? Do it? 33 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: We we uh, we enjoy it and every review, every 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: time we get a nice review, our here are Uber 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: Boss appears in an obsidian mirror and grants us one 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: more day of life. Yeah, and he says, now get 37 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: back out there and give some more ride sharing stuff, 38 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: because I'm the uber Boss. Yes, exactly exactly. Today we 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: are diving into a phenomenon that many of our fellow 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: listeners have asked us about. Over the course of years, 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: years and years and years. This has shown up and 42 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: we've looked at it a little bit in the past. 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: But now we're diving face first full into the deep 44 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: water of the Phoenix Lights. To some people, the entire 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: Phoenix Lights phenomenon is a cynical way of grabbing cash 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: and some publicity. And you know, in some respects that 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: is true. To others, it's one of the most well 48 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: documented UFO sightings in recent history, due primarily to the 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: video footage available and as well as the thousands of 50 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: witnesses on the ground and a few in the air 51 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: at the time. So today's question is what happened? Where 52 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: does the truth fall between these two rather divisive views. 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: To answer that, we have to travel back in time. 54 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: So here are the facts. We have to go back 55 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: to March thirteenth, nineteen nineties seven, around eight pm, a 56 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: little bit after that in Arizona, specifically in Phoenix, Arizona 57 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: and the surrounding towns mostly north of that. Now, on 58 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: this day, numerous reports all kinds of residents from all 59 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: across this area start describing to uh to police because 60 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: they're making nine when one calls. They're making reports this 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: all over the place of these mysterious lights that are 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: in the sky. But here's the deal. If you if 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: you went through and you cataloged every single one of 64 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: the reports that occurred that night, you were going to 65 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: hear a lot of different stories about what was actually seen. 66 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: Some people described seeing this strange V shaped formation or 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: sometimes it's they called it a boomerang um and it 68 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: just looks like, you know, like if you're looking at 69 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: geese as they're migrating or something flying v yes, similar 70 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: to that with six lights, sometimes more, sometimes fewer, usually 71 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: six or fewer that were actually observed. And other people 72 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: amidst these thousands of witnesses claimed that they saw hovering lights, 73 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: meaning lights that moved in discrete groups, or lights that 74 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: appeared to fade after they had passed the observers. And again, 75 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: most of these observers are stationary. They are on the ground. 76 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: They do not they're they're not looking through various instruments. 77 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: They're watching with the naked eye. So they'll have a 78 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: hard time guessing the altitude. Right, we we see a 79 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: large range and what how high people believe these things are, right, Yeah, 80 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: So let's let's let's trace the events because we're fortunate 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: in that this happened so recently. There's a wealth of 82 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: technology that wasn't available and say the fifties or the thirties. 83 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: According to the National UFO Reporting Center, which is one 84 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: of the only organizations that keeps an official record of 85 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: these sightings. Uh. They received their first call on their 86 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: UFO hotline that night from a retired cop in Paulden, Arizona. 87 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: That's a small town a couple hours north of Phoenix. 88 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: And then after that initial report, the hotline blew up. 89 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: People were calling all over the place from location south 90 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: of Paulden, and that indicated to the reporting center that 91 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: the aircraft or the UFO whatever you wanna call it, 92 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: was heading in a southeastern direction. And some of the 93 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: specifics from the reports are a little bit different. But 94 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: USA Today a few months after the fact in the 95 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: summer of nine, reported that they there were several key observations. 96 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: Here they are. One, the craft was enormous. Witnesses described 97 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: it sometimes as a mile wide. Two made no noise, 98 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: and three it moved slowly over Arizona, often stopping to 99 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: hover in a single location. And now that is generally 100 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: with the reports that describe it as one craft. Essentially 101 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: that's flying together and all those lights are just represented 102 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: attached to that craft right like on its belly. Right. 103 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: So now we enter into a tricky situation. Yeah, it's true. 104 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: According to researcher Tony Ortega. There were actually two separate events. 105 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: On the night of March thirteenth. We have the mysterious 106 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: V in question, that configuration of lights that so many 107 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: people across the state witnessed. That was seen over Prescott 108 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: at about eight fifteen PM, and then traveled south to 109 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: Phoenix about a thirty Then it passed over Tucson finally 110 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: at eighty five that's two hundred miles in thirty minutes, 111 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: which means the V was moving at about four hundred 112 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: miles per hour. And remember what Ben said earlier, These 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: people are generally stationary on the ground and they're observing 114 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: going in that direction. So it you know where it 115 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: actually was above you know, whatever location it was in 116 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: that time span, give or take. It's give or take 117 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, miles. But still that's a big deal when 118 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: this part's wild, because you had a huge disparity in 119 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: whether or not people were seeing it up high or 120 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: down low. Literally, some early eyewitnesses perceived that it was 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: high in the sky, and then you had other swearing 122 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: that it was a low moving almost a hovercraft kind 123 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: of the hovering very low and slow. Well, yeah, some 124 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: people described it as being right above their homes as 125 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: it was going across, and that's been depicted over the 126 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: years as that other people have seen it as well, 127 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: above above the mountains, even because there are several large mountains, 128 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: especially in the Phoenix, Arizona area, um kind of to 129 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,119 Speaker 1: the northeast, and people were describing it as coming over those. 130 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: There's a huge mountain I think it's called Squaw Peak 131 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: right near the center of Phoenix, and people saw it 132 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: come right over top of that mountain as well. And 133 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: he we'll get into more of the specific later. It's 134 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: just just think about how fascinating that would be to 135 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: actually observe that. Sure. Yeah, and as we'll find, this 136 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: is not uncommon for the residents of Phoenix, Arizona. Here's 137 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: the second event that happens on the same night March. 138 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: News of that eight thirty pm siding that you just described, 139 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: NOL traveled very quickly and so more people were outside 140 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: with video cameras when the second and unrelated event happened 141 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: at about ten pm in the sky southwest of Phoenix. 142 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: A string of lights appeared in the heavens and slowly 143 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: sank until they disappeared behind the nearby astraya mountain range. 144 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: So given that there were two different events, one of 145 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: the big questions is where people conflating the reports. Did 146 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: these two separate events happen so closely together in a 147 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: chronological sense that later people are saying, well, I saw 148 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: something weird too on the same night, so logically it's 149 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: the same thing. I can see that. Yeah, that makes 150 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: also that would that would account for the disparity, right 151 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: and uh in height? Yeah, well, now what twenty two 152 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: years later plus we are or how much has been 153 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: conflated just historically now at this point, after that initial 154 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: day of report, it's weird. And we'll see that mainstream 155 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: media had a an unusual role to play in this. 156 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: But let's see what Uncle Sam said. Initially, lots of 157 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: people freaked out. The contacted military bases in Arizona, and 158 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: they said, all right, what's what's going on? What's all 159 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: the hubbub bub and the military bases? Every single one said, 160 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: nothing unusual here, what do you what are you beefed 161 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: up about? Or whatever? You know, that's military jargon, I guess. 162 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: And later these military bases and the government would change 163 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: their story. Since a little bit of foreshadowing, this is 164 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 1: where we can see a little bit of that telephone 165 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: game you're alluding to, Matt and how quickly things got 166 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: out of hand. So we said the event happened, let's 167 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: call it mid March. It did not become national news 168 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: or even general knowledge until June, when USA Today put 169 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: out a story with the headline skies phone lines light 170 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: up Arizona on their front page. Misinformation was already spreading 171 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: like wildfire. Many people weren't sure exactly what they saw. 172 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: Some time had passed. That means they were in a 173 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: suggestible state. And we have a pretty accurate re enactment 174 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: of how those kind of question answers sessions can go. 175 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: So who wants to be the researcher? Who wants to 176 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: be the witness? Researcher? Sure? Would you say? It looks 177 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: like a craft? Well, I don't know. It happened so fast. 178 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: Perhaps it had a rough shape, a triangle, a boomerang, 179 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: I guess, so maybe boom cut and that's all it takes. 180 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: The witness saw a boomerang. Yeah, exactly, because now we 181 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: have Now we have a witness who is very clearly 182 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: not trying to like trick anybody, not out to get 183 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: any money or you know, beyond TV or whatever they're 184 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: they're honestly thinking, well, I I yeah, I guess it 185 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: could have been a boomerang or something like that. I 186 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: thought that was very well acted. Can I can I 187 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: point out really quick? I really miss headlines like skies 188 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: phones light up, Arizona. It's just good economy of language. 189 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: You know. The British are great at it, very good. 190 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: I've got to send you those compendiums of brilliant headlines 191 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: that are like that. Well some of them very dirty punts, 192 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: but I'll send it along. The question here now becomes 193 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: actually happened up there twenty two years ago, Phoenix, Arizona. 194 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: We'll tell you. After a word from our sponsors. Here's 195 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Let's roll out the theories. Guys, 196 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: what do you say, Let's dive into Okay, let's dive 197 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: into it UFOs. Okay. Sure. So the first thing that 198 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: we can absolutely confirm is that something that was illuminated 199 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: was in the sky on that night. Something definitely happened. Yes, 200 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: I mean for for real, Because a lot of times, 201 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: when you were thinking about these kinds of things, you 202 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: have one or two witnesses, right, or you know a 203 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: small handful of witnesses and you have to just by 204 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: critical you know, by the by the way of thinking 205 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: about these things. Critically, you have to question the veracity 206 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: of a witness statement. Right. Sure, in this case you 207 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: still have to do that to an extent, but you 208 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: have so many people seeing it that we can confirm 209 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: that something was in the sky, something occurred, and there 210 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: was video documentation and and uh photography, there were a 211 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: lot of photographs of that night. Now Here is where 212 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: we bring in our friend Kurt Russell. Okay, okay, so 213 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: on a talk show, British talk show years ago. I 214 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: think it was around the time that Guardians of the 215 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: Galaxy one or two was coming out. I can't remember. Okay, 216 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: so doesn't want to, but he was really prominent too well. 217 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: Guardians of the Galaxy was occurring. Kurt Russell is on 218 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: a British talk show. He's sitting next to Chris Pratt 219 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: and the the presenter brings up the Phoenix Lights. He 220 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: just starts telling the story of the Phoenix Lights and 221 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: Kurt Russell answers it wasn't even a question or anything. 222 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: Kurt Russell just responds by saying, I know exactly what 223 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: that was because I was the pilot that that actually 224 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: called this in when he was coming into the airport, 225 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: and he tells a story about how he was taking 226 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: his son. He had just got his pilot's license. He 227 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: was taking his son, Oliver to go see a friend 228 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: out in Phoenix, and he was flying out there and 229 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: as he's approaching to land, he sees these six lights 230 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: and he makes a report and describes him. He says, well, yes, 231 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: they're unidentified. They're six lights. You don't have them on 232 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: your radar. Well, then that's odd. I'm just letting you know. 233 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: And then he lands and goes about his day. But 234 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: fairly odd that someone is prominent, as Kurt Russell ends 235 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: up being, you know, a pretty major witness to this phenomenon, 236 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: is confirmable in anyway. It is he he has talked 237 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: about it. He actually named the what is it the 238 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: call not the call sign, but the tower. It's the 239 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: tail number or whatever of the plane. Like he calls 240 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: out exactly what it was like. So he said he 241 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: saw the plane and could even see the tail. No, 242 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: he knew it because he was the pilot. Oh no, 243 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: his plane. Okay, that makes sense. I mean to me, 244 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: it's not that weird, because this is this is post 245 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: big trouble in Little China where everything changed for him, 246 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, and he's just flying around and just seeing. Yeah, 247 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:21,119 Speaker 1: I mean you're staring to the abyss man. So technically 248 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: it's absolutely true. For several months, the Phoenix lights were inarguably, 249 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: regardless of how you feel about quote unquote aliens, they 250 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: were UFOs. People had multiple, often contradictory ideas about what 251 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: could have been up there. Some of these ideas were 252 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: more plausible than others, so much more plausible than others, 253 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: But the point is no one was completely sure. Ufologists 254 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: hit the scene very quickly, and when they investigated this 255 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: story they found wildly varying descriptions of the lights. Especially 256 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: this is again important as time wound on, descriptions included 257 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: things that you had mentioned earlier, Matt, huge boomerang shaped aircraft, 258 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: luminous globes, one of my favorites, spinning disco balls. Maybe 259 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: those guys were already out partying with some hallucinogens or something, 260 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: in which case they add an amazing night. It reminds 261 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: me of descriptions of chariots of fire in ancient writings. 262 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: Of having our understanding of technology in current time, attempting 263 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: to explain what we're seeing that is of a technology 264 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: of a further advanced time. Yeah, that's just at least 265 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: the image I get. I'm not saying that's what I 266 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: think it is. Eric von Dannikin, Yes, I love to 267 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: drop that name. It's true. Uh. For the more upologists 268 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: believe still that the story goes much deeper than the 269 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: two events that were reported. They often also insist the 270 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: events are either related or the same phenomenon, and that 271 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: the attempt to separate these events is either misguided or 272 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: purposefully misleading. You have oversearchers say that before the lights 273 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: were seen over Phoenix, they were spotted near Henderson, Nevada, 274 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: and then afterwards they were spied in Mexico. And then 275 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: they also say some people had strange reactions to the light, 276 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: encountering temporary amnesia or reacting in an oddly unemotional way. 277 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: Like they they saw the lights, they stopped the car, 278 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: no one said anything as they watched them in silence, 279 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: And then when it was over, instead of going holy smokes, 280 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: what was that, they said, all right, well, Denny's closes attend, 281 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: so get back on the road. I just want to 282 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: point out really fast that Henderson, Nevada is very close 283 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: to Las Vegas. That's on the outskirts and it's to 284 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: the north west of Phoenix, right, So like, if you're 285 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: imagining that line of travel down from generally Las Vegas, 286 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: it's that same direction that it was reported earlier. That's perfect. 287 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: We need to orient ourselves geographically. Let's bring in the professionals, 288 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: the the professional non governmental UFO observers. Let's let's introduce 289 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: move ON because they got involved in this, right, boy 290 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: do they ever? So you know how much of a 291 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: good acronym? So move ON or the Mutual UFO Network 292 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: is a US based nonprofit organization that we have talked 293 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: about many times on this show, made up of civilian 294 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: volunteers who study alleged UFO sightings. Mouf On is not 295 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: officially persuaded that this was an extraterrestrial event at all, 296 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: and I would think they'd be the first ones to 297 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: be like, you know, yes, we need more confirmed UFO accounts. 298 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear what their argument is. And 299 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: here it is, thus, quote, do we have evidence that 300 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: it was an extraterrestrial event? Move On said, in the 301 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: form of their investigator Jim Mann, we have evidence that 302 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: it was an extremely bizarre event, but we can't put 303 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: a label on it other than that it was an anomaly. 304 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 1: Man then added, the Arizona move On investigated three twenty 305 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: five cases of reported UFOs last year and the majority 306 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: were explained. Twelve were filed away as unknown, and that 307 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: would be last year. For that would be one thing. 308 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: You know. Move On is not a perfect organization, as 309 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: its fair share of critics, especially given some of the 310 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: political infighting and allegations of racism within the ranks. But 311 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: when it comes to their analyzes of these different reports, 312 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: they are from what we can tell. And again, Paul, 313 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: Matt Noel and myself we are not members of moved On, 314 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: but it seems like they would rather know the truth. 315 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: So if they investigate something and they have a plausible, 316 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, weather balloon explanation, then they'll take it if 317 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: it seems true, and that's respectable. We were at a god, 318 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: it wasn't that long ago. We were at move On 319 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: meeting not I don't even know what it was, was was 320 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: seventeen one of those years us time moves so strangely 321 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: and out. But what we saw in that meeting where 322 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: individual investigators coming up and giving the reports about all 323 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: the research they've done on specific sightings. And it was 324 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: fascinating to see how much care was put in by 325 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, each individual member who like who knows exactly 326 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: what they put in, but at least the people that 327 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: we witnessed, Uh, the effort is there. Yeah, and it 328 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: seemed a very productive meeting. I was I I enjoyed it. 329 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: There were, of course, maybe a couple of more eccentric people, 330 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: but that can happen almost in any free public gathering. 331 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: I mean we were there, Yeah, we were there. Uh. 332 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: That was one thing I was thinking about. And I 333 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: have a question for any ethologist in the in the 334 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: listening audience today, how do you feel about people who 335 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: seem quote unquote too eccentric for a meeting. Do you 336 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: think it is important that they have a space to 337 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: speak or do you think that they discredit the overall 338 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: investigating aations. I don't know. I don't have a I 339 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: don't have a badger in this bag or a horse 340 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: in this race, but I would be interested to hear 341 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: what people have to say, especially if you have attended 342 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: many such conferences or meetings. So that's not where the 343 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories end. Some people say, no, of course, these 344 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: aren't aliens. This is just a cash grab by people 345 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: who want to build the credulous. It's much worse. These 346 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: are These are man made events, but they're not made 347 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: by the government. You recognize. They're made by a different government, 348 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: a deeper government, a deep state, something we would call 349 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: a new world order. Some fringe researchers active in nWo 350 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: research believe that the second event was sort of a 351 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: red herring. They claim the military at Fort Huachuka south 352 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: of Tucson, Arizona, actually dropped flares and that those created 353 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: the you know what seemed to be that second event 354 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: with the lights, and they did this to confuse people 355 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: and hide evidence of a psychological warfare test that created 356 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 1: indistinct shapes in the night sky. You love this met 357 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: via some sort of holographic projection device. Whoa, we're getting 358 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: into blue beam territory here and watch out. That is 359 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: my favorite. Well, you know, the other thing is they 360 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: would have known that there would be a lot of 361 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: people out looking at the sky because there was weather 362 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: phenomenon or is a space weather phenomenon that was going 363 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: on where there was going to be a meteor shower 364 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: hail Bop, right, yeah, in a comment, and it's you know, 365 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: if they were going to do some kind of psychological research, 366 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: it would have been a great night to choose. That 367 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: is true. That is true. And then we bring in 368 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: the Heaven's Gate strand to this web. That is the 369 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: that is the religious movement often called a cult, uh, 370 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: that was convinced they would be able to leave their 371 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: corporeal forms and travel to their religions paradise via the 372 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: Hilbop comment, Uh, if they took their own lives, which 373 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: is unfortunately what happened, maybe a story all its own. 374 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: So add that to the mix. Maybe that's where the 375 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: psychological warfare aspect is kind of coming into play. But 376 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: the issue here for New World Order stuff is still 377 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 1: one of motivation. Why go to all this trouble? If 378 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: you are a very powerful shadowy pair of governmental cabal, 379 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: what would you have to gain by pulling a stunt 380 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: like this? You know? Is it? Is it just bragging rights? 381 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: Walk up and kind of you know, uh, swing your 382 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: business round at the Builderberg conference. God so weird, I 383 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: can imagine. I mean, if I really put on my 384 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: tinfoil hat just to to see I can imagine it 385 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: being a test to see how the public is going 386 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: to react to a mass scale will um vision in 387 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: the sky like this, no matter what people are seeing 388 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: right um? If there so, I guess the motivation would 389 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: be if we were to fake an alien invasion of 390 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: some sort, how would the human beings on the ground react? Yeah, 391 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: and how would we how would we propagate it most effectively? 392 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: So these are questions that currently do not have answers 393 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: everyone can agree on. We would like to point out 394 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: our Blue Beam episode if you want to learn more 395 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: about that is a fascinating story and it's one of 396 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: those that feels a little bit less impossible each time 397 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: you think about it, especially given the recent breakthroughs in 398 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: imaging technology. But so far we have been talking primarily 399 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: about motivations or explanations that exist in the heavens. We're 400 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: going to pause for a word from our sponsor and 401 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: then turn with a bit of a more let's call 402 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: it an earthly explanation. Alright, we're back, And while we're back, 403 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: let's go back to Tony Ortega, who mentioned earlier. Ortega, 404 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: who is a journalist and has has reported this for 405 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: some local papers, believes that he has arrived at solid 406 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: explanations for both of the events over Arizona that evening. First, 407 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: that infamous V formation happened around right, so Ortega spoke 408 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: with a young man who had a ten inch dobson 409 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: Ian telescope. This kid was named Mitch Stanley. He spotted 410 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: the V from his backyard and he was able to 411 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: see close enough that he could discern it was a 412 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 1: formation of airplanes. He used a magnification of sixty x 413 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: that more or less put some sixty times closer to 414 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: the V than people who are viewing it unaided, and 415 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: he said he could see each light in the sky 416 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: was actually a double with one light under each squarish wing. 417 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: The planes looked small in his scope, and that suggests 418 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: they were flying at a very high altitude, which comes 419 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: into play later. But he did not know what type 420 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: of plane they were. There was no doubt he said 421 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: that these were definitely planes. He doubled down on that, 422 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: And if you look at some of the video footage 423 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: that was captured on that night in it looks like 424 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: people are talking about this big black V right or 425 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: the boomerang. It looks in some of those videos like 426 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 1: there is blacked out sky with a light in the 427 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: center of it, and that occurs six individual times, kind 428 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: of in a formation. And again there are numerous videos 429 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: that you can see online of this. To me, to 430 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: my eyes, that's what it looks like. I can imagine 431 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: if it really were six individual planes with the wings 432 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: going out and the way they do in that V formation, 433 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: they're gonna overlap enough where the you know, the blacked 434 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: out sky behind those wings, it's gonna look like it's connected. 435 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: And if you've got highly experienced pilots, particularly those who 436 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: were in a military flying in formation, it's going to 437 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: be so rigid and flying, you know, with with such 438 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: regularity with that formation that I can imagine as it's 439 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: going overhead or something, you would visualize the entire thing 440 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: as one. Oh yeah, totally, I can see that. I 441 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: just want to put that out there. Well, what about 442 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: the second event where Taka has an explanation for that too, right, Yeah, 443 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: it's true. This was seen as a string of flares 444 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: dropped by the Maryland Air and National Guard over the 445 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: North Tech Military Range and Ortega rights on this one. Uh. 446 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: The problem developed later when people conflated reports of the 447 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: two sightings. Like we mentioned earlier, for the many people 448 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: who had seen the earlier the past directly over their heads, 449 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: the explanation of the flares made absolutely no sense whatsoever. 450 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: News organizations didn't differentiate between the two events or report 451 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: on the Stanley identification. That's perfect because that that's one 452 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: of the key pieces in this story. So USA Today, right, 453 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: and UH, a couple of other outlets, they just report 454 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: this stuff, hit the UFO angle hard and don't differentiate 455 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: between the things. That doesn't mean that they're guilty of 456 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: purposely trying to mislead people. Just to the point we 457 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you're asking people what happened after the fact, 458 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: and it's very plausible for them to assume the same 459 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: thing was occurring. The military and government, as we mentioned, 460 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: they originally said Nope, nothing to see here, move along, 461 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: mosey on down, out of the way. Uh. They later 462 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: came forward and change their story. You see, Phoenix has 463 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: two Air Force bases pretty near the city, and to 464 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: some weekly eventually broke the news that the Maryland to 465 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: Air National Guard was in Arizona for winter training and 466 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: they had a school out of a ten fighters over 467 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: the gunnery range that night. These fighters had dropped flares 468 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: an Arizona National Guard pr officer or Public Information Officer 469 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: p i O named Captain Eileen Biens, had determined that 470 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: the flares were dropped at get this ten pm over 471 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: the North Tach Range, thirty miles southwest of Phoenix, at 472 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: a pretty high altitude fifteen thousand feet, so they would 473 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: be falling in the air for a long time. Another 474 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: thing happened. Local governments came forward. Then incumbent Arizona Governor 475 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: Fife Symington. I love that name. Fife Symington's thought people 476 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: were being too uptight about this and taking it too seriously, 477 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: so he arranged a joke press conference. He had a 478 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: lot of UFO jokes in his speech. He even had 479 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: one of his poor aides come up on stage in 480 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: an alien costume and he it's like, all right, everybody 481 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: calmed down, you know, let's just have a good time 482 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: out here in Arizona. But then later on a few years, 483 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: as the years passed, he pulled a total one eight. 484 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. He he told the story about how, oh, 485 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: I actually saw something on that night. I was mentioning 486 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: that there's a thing called Squaw Peak there near the 487 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: middle of Phoenix. He's the guy at least from the 488 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: reporting that I read. He's the person who said, yes, 489 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: I saw something come over squaw Peak and it was 490 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: like that v formation. It was the lights like that 491 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: and that's right in the middle of Phoenix, in the 492 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: Phoenix area. Um, And he apologized and he was just like, hey, yeah, 493 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: um my bad. Um. The lights are a great mystery 494 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: that couldn't have been flares because it was too symmetrical, 495 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: according to his own eyewitness account of it, even though 496 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: he made fun of it. Interesting, huh, preaching to the converted, 497 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: I guess. Interesting. Well, ultimately, what it sounds like is 498 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: a politician that was afraid of, you know, ridicule, because 499 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: we do know that there was a I believe a 500 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: city council member who brought it up in a meeting 501 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: and then for the next months and months and months 502 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: she was just made fun of relentlessly at her office 503 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: and in public, right, right, And this remains a divisive 504 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: topic for people in the area or ufologists versus skeptics today. 505 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: You know. Skeptics, for their part, are quick to point 506 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: out that, with a few notable exceptions, the majority of 507 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: witnesses were watching again with the naked eye stationary positions 508 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: on the ground, so they can be easily fooled into 509 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: inaccurate estimates of very important factors like size, altitude, and speed. 510 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 1: But for the ufologists there is one big advantage, at 511 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: least in terms of rhetoric argument. They can say, well, 512 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the first time that the government did 513 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: something sketchy and then lied about it. It's absolutely true. Uh, 514 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: you know. The only the only comeback you have for 515 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: that is to say that doesn't mean that this is 516 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: one of those cases. Right, Just because a car has 517 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: driven through um Bedford, Massachusetts doesn't mean that all cars 518 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: drive through Bedford, Massachusetts. True, I'm phrasing that in an 519 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: awkward way, but but it's interesting, and now it brings 520 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: us to the conclusion we have to ask, what do 521 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: you what do you think? Let's walk through it. Let's say, 522 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: and let's just speculate here. Let's say that the most 523 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: out there conspiracy theories are correct that in March of 524 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: extraterrestrials or extra dimensional entities or time travelers or whatever 525 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: came to the Phoenix, Arizona area and did a flyover. 526 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: Thousands of people saw it. Why would they do that? 527 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: They didn't know where they were they were lost. They 528 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: were trying to find Hollywood. Um, they saw the lights 529 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: of Las Vegas and they made a pass over Las 530 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: Vegas because they saw the pyramid down there, the Luxor, 531 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, well, this is obviously you know, 532 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: this is the ancient shape they've you know, paid homage 533 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: to us. Oh wait a second, what's going on down there? 534 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: They did a scan, they realized it was people, you know, 535 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: just throwing their money into slot machines, and they went, oh, geez, 536 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: that's now we're supposed to be let's keep going down 537 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: the path here. They went over Phoenix and they were 538 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: like yeah, and they kept going sorry everybody in Phoenix. 539 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: And then uh, they finally they made it down down 540 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: Mexico Way and they just stayed. They just stayed there 541 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: because they really liked it. I mean, you know, we've 542 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: all been there, right, Yeah, at least in the state 543 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: of mind, in the Mexico state of mind. Okay, that's 544 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: one idea on Okay, let's say, what if it was 545 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: US military craft, why and how would they do this? Well, currently, 546 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: this seems to be the most solid explanation, but there's 547 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: one big gap in the story, one that rightly bothers 548 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: a lot of people. We don't know for sure where 549 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: the craft originated. Nobody requested the radar information from the 550 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: f A, a Federal Aviation administration within two weeks. The 551 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: records for this kind of stuff are usually deleted within 552 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: that two week span, so we'll never know exactly where 553 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: those planes came from. Outside of you know, the statements 554 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 1: of journalists and statements from the military, the mystery remains. 555 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: I've got something to point out here with the whole 556 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: explanation of the military craft being a ten fighters, Do 557 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: you guys know what an a ten fighter is? No? 558 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: If you are you familiar with that, it's they're generally 559 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: referred to as a war tog. Yeah. Have you have 560 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: you ever heard one of these? You've heard them in 561 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: military movies that I was picturing. I'm assuming Ben has 562 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: have you actually witnessed one of those? So I wonder 563 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: if we can play a quick sound for you if 564 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: we can find one. If we did find one, it's 565 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: going to be right here. The Aton war Hog is 566 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: a loud Dijet fighter plane, So look it up in 567 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: your time if you have a momentum, imagine six of 568 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: those flying in formation. Even if they're at high altitude, 569 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: you're going to hear them. And a lot of these 570 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: reports where it was silent craft well also we have 571 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: to we have to point out that there are people 572 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: who have problems with that report to the idea that 573 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: they were silent, because as loud as something is, you 574 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: get it high enough in the air, it's going to 575 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: be beyond the bound of human hearing. Sometimes you're right, 576 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: you're right, you're and again we don't know. We can't 577 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: accurately judge the the altitude, right, and we all we 578 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: also cannot confirm whether or not it was the quote 579 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: unquote aton word hog sighting or the flair sighting because 580 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: the flares would be nice and silent. Right, Oh, nice, 581 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: very good point. We hope you enjoy this episode. We're 582 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: presenting what we found to be the facts, as well 583 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: as what we found to be the the more controversial claims. 584 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: As always, your decision is your own. We don't want 585 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 1: to tell you what to think, but we darnshore want 586 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: to hear what you think about it. Uh. And there 587 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: is one interesting thing I found that I thought might 588 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: be useful to some of us listening in the Phoenix area. 589 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: There is a Phoenix Lights Festival. Uh, aliens are not. 590 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: It seems like one heck of a party, since it's 591 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: given the Valleys electronic dance music scene a signature event 592 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: to call its own. I've looked at some pictures from 593 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: the party, and while you probably won't meet a legit extraterrestrial, 594 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna have some interesting encounters. Some eccentric individuals will 595 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: make their way to you. You'll have some memorable events. Uh. 596 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: And you will never see me there. Why not just 597 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: because because you're a cost dance Oh it's a it's man, 598 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: you don't have to dance. Just very Phil Collins about it. Uh. Furthermore, 599 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: regardless of what you think mundane or something more, the 600 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: Phoenix Lights have captured the imaginations of millions of people 601 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: over the past more than two decades, including a ton 602 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 1: of people in Hollywood, not just Kurt Russell. Oh sure, 603 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: I mean the phenomenon was a key plot point for 604 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: the uh hugely influential found footage horror film Phoenix Forgotten, 605 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 1: which at this point has has been forgotten largely. Yeah, 606 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: I I die. I was not aware of it in 607 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: the first one. Did you guys see it? I have 608 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: not seen it. I've got apparently can last year. I've 609 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: seen trailers for it. I mean, honestly, it looks like 610 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: a Blair Witch movie based on the Phoenix lights being 611 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: the main occurrence, and that's why these people try and 612 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: figure out what's going on. Found footage films are so tricky. 613 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: Blair which was great, Chronicle was great. If you remember 614 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: that one, that's where the kids get destructive telekinetic powers 615 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: from uh object from space. I actually haven't seen that one, 616 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: and it's been on my watch list for I don't 617 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: even know how many years. I'd be really interested to 618 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: see what you think, because they do pretty well found footage. 619 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: But there's one last note. UFO sightings, as I have 620 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, are fairly common in the Phoenix area, and 621 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: there are reports of strange lights in the desert sky 622 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: multiple times every single year. But it goes a little 623 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: bit further. According to the Washington Post, Arizona has the 624 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: highest number of UFO sightings per capita in the entire 625 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: or United States of America. So if there's anything uh where, 626 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: if there's any situation where something like the Phoenix Lights 627 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: would occur again, it would be Arizona statistically. If you're 628 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: really interested in this stuff. We recommend looking up someone 629 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: named Lynn Katai. She made a documentary about the subject. 630 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: She wrote a book. You can find a lot of 631 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: links and other reporting if you search for for her 632 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: Lynn Katai again. Um k I T E I I believe, Yes, 633 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: it's some interesting stuff. I don't know. We'd love to 634 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: know what you think, so find us talk to us 635 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: on Facebook. We are at Conspiracy Stuff and we have 636 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: a page they're called Here's where it Gets Crazy, where 637 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: you can talk about this episode and any other episode. 638 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 1: You can give us suggestions for future topics, anything you 639 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: want us to talk about. They do us thing for us. 640 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: I would really appreciate if you go to whatever podcast 641 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: platform a choice that you can se whom this show 642 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: on and leave us a nice review, especially Apple Podcast, 643 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: because that's a big helpful way for people to discover 644 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: the show. You can also find us on our personal 645 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: instagrams or Twitter. I am at then Buland on Instagram 646 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: and at then Bolland h s W on Twitter, and 647 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: you can find me on Instagram at how Now Noel 648 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,760 Speaker 1: Brown And just to remember something here in my notes 649 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: that I just didn't even look at that Phoenix City 650 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: councilwoman or former Phoenix City councilwoman. Her name was Francis 651 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: Barwood and she was She was the first public official 652 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,280 Speaker 1: to actually discuss the Phoenix Lights in a public setting 653 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: where she literally was just like, hey, so what was 654 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: that thing? And know what what is it? And the 655 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: council people around her, we're making fun of her and 656 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: all those things. Anyway, you can look it up, you 657 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: can learn more, go ahead and do it. If you 658 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: don't want to do any of that stuff, well you 659 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: can also can you can you call a number? We 660 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: have a number, don't Yes, it is one three three 661 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: std W I t K. You don't like using phones, 662 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 1: Maybe you exist in some sort of cloud of sentient Google. 663 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: Google can exist in cloud form um. Then you could 664 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: probably still find your way into writing an email. There 665 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: must be a way. We are conspiracy at i heart 666 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to Know 667 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For 668 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 669 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 670 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: favorite shows.