WEBVTT - Building a Better Period-Tracking App 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.480 I think it's a it's a problem that we have 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.920 become used to having free digital services and free in 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.520 quotation mark because of course we've been really paying without 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:16.120 private data. These days, there seems to be a smartphone 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.520 app for just about everything. One of the more popular 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.400 categories are apps that track menstrual cycles. More than a 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.040 hundred million women around the world already use them. Some 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.320 are trying to get pregnant, others are trying to avoid 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.600 getting pregnant, and many just want to better handle on 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:38.440 what their bodies are doing. But these free apps have 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.320 trade offs. Some use sensitive health information to place targeted ads. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.479 The apps all need to make money, and that might 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.400 mean in a big picture sense, their main product is 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:57.480 actually their users data. Welcome to Prognosis, Bloomberg's podcast about 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.280 the intersection of health and technology and the unexpected places 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.800 that is taking us. I'm your host, Michelle fe Cortes. 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.000 For most of us, giving away our data is just 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.199 the deal we make when we're using a free app. 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.520 But a growing number of women are saying no, thank you, 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.520 and some are taking matters into their own hands. Bloomberg's 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.200 Naomi Kraski went to meet a group of feminist coders. 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.120 Our story starts at the Rainbow Factory, a community space 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:33.720 in Berlin's hot spot for startups, the Kreuzburg neighborhood. I'm 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.520 standing in the cafe at the community space. It's packed 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.400 with about two dozen people crammed around mismatched schoolroom style 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.959 tables and shares. Someone just popped open a bottle of 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.400 East Germans sparkling wine behind the bar, and they're handing 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:55.760 it out for free. People are here to celebrate. Everyone 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.280 stops hosting each other and settles down, turning their attention 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.520 to a project and screen. Next to that screen is 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.080 Marie cox Seek, a thirty year old sociologist and software developer. 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.679 She pulls up a slide with a grid of logos 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.040 for different period tracking apps. Don't get me wrong, I 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.359 don't think pink is a bad color. I just think 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:22.440 it's not the only one. And I also think flowers 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:27.600 or the herd, or what butterfly? Or this this very 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:32.480 cute girl with these big eyes. They don't really represent 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.480 represent me, They don't really represent us. Marie is one 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.800 third of the leadership team for Bloody Health, the coding 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.280 collectives that just released the first female developed open source 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.680 menstrual cycle tracker. In English, it's called DRIP. And this 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.320 is the launch party. Now after all these things, oh no, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.720 there's like no privacy, no security, black box algorithms, Genno stereotypes. 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.000 Now this is DRIP. The seats for the project were 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:06.040 sewn back in when Marie got her first smartphone. It 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.880 was an Android. She was a bit of a late 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.200 adopter on the smartphone, but she knew what she wanted 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.040 to download right away. I looked into the play store 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.919 and I found a period app, um, and I just 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.160 took like the first one. Yeah, I think it was Womanlock, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.160 which is also the icon with a pink flower on 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.960 the black screen, and it was. It was the first 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:33.200 app that I've seen. And the very same day, I 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.120 met with a friend of mine and I was very 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.480 excited and I told her, oh my god, I just 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.320 found this cool period app. It's so useful. I love it. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.800 If you have ever had a period, you know why. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.520 Marie was so happy at first when she found that app. 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.200 Periods can turn up at the most annoying times. They 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.200 can ruin your sheets and your Tinder dates. But period 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.839 apps promised to do more than just help you keep 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.360 act of bleeding. The broader pitch is that if you 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.160 give the app and of details, you can get a 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.680 heads up on all the others, sometimes frustrating changes that 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.360 come with your cycle. Why am I feeling depressed? What 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.320 the heck is going on with my digestion? Could I 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.919 be pregnant? The desire to connect the dots between the 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.039 period and everything else has helped make the apps so popular. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.680 They're consistently in the top ten most downloaded in the 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:34.520 app Store. Just about every commercial period app lets you 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.000 do more than just click a calendar day so you 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.719 remember when your last one happened. They also make predictions 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.719 about when your next period will come. They let you 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:48.440 track everything from sex and boozy nights out to ovulation tests, 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:54.839 vaginal discharge, and resting body temperature. But apps don't necessarily 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.960 have to meet the privacy standards of say, doctor or 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:03.400 hospital records. In fact, as one of Marie's friends told her, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.800 the commercial apps can use your data for plenty of 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.359 things that do not have anything to do with keeping 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.240 track of your period. This first looked at me. She 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.200 was a very close friend, so she looked at me 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.360 and said, like, Marie, have you read the privacy policy? 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.919 Of this app, and um, I was a bit annoyed 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.000 at her because she kind of took away my joy 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.279 in that moment um. But the following day I deleted 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.120 the app. All of that data can be used for 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.760 the same type of business that Facebook, Instagram and other 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.680 major apps use it for. Facebook is already controversial, but 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.720 here we're talking about even more personal data than what 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.400 most people share with social media. Joanna Baron, a Brazilian 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.600 researcher and digital rights activists who leads the group Coding Rights, explains, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.480 so it's a lot, a lot, a lot of information 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.799 that is collected and the information that you get back 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.960 it's a when's your period and when's your fertile moment. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.159 It doesn't need to ask all those questions to have 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:12.080 this outcome as an information. So of course this is 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.080 going somewhere else. And then if you go and look 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.080 at the terms of services, they say we might give 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:24.400 it to the data to third parties for advertisement purposes 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.880 and for whatever purpose that's not the purpose of the app. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.800 Joanna's group did a study of period apps called Menstrue 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.719 Apps how to turn your period into money for others. 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.600 They found that information users give the apps can be 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:46.520 shared with third parties, including social media platforms, marketing agencies, 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:53.000 research institutes, employers, and Google Analytics. Flow, the biggest period 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.400 app in the US, has collected more than thirteen billion 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.520 data points about its users. Flow says the day helps 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.599 women monitor irregular periods and has helped a lot of 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.200 its users get pregnant. The app, based out of Mintsk 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.920 in Belarus, got into hot water recently over sharing some 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:15.200 user data with Facebook. After an uproar, the company said 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.239 it was only using Facebook analytics to improve the user 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:23.040 experience and that it would stop. But in China, where 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.160 the biggest period apps in the world are based, companies 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.119 have gone much further. Diema, one of the market leaders there, 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.160 said it crunches its users data to find out whether 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:39.320 to show them ads for tampons or ads for ovulation kits. Still, 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.160 Joanna's group found that when it comes to privacy policies, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.880 not all commercial period apps are created equal. They cited Clue, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.560 a Berlin based period app that's especially popular in Europe, 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:56.000 as an example of a clear privacy policy. Clue also 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.840 lets you store your health tracking data on your phone 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.320 without sharing it with the company, as long as you 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.320 do not set up a user account. I wanted to 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.800 get an industry perspective on this open source backlash against 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.120 commercial period apps, so I went to visit Clue CEO. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:20.000 I'd a ten. I never started this company because of 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.000 wanted to build a business. I wanted to solve a problem, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.000 and so I think there are definitely many nasty ways 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.040 that you can be commercial in this industry, and that 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.160 is happening. I do understand their sentiment. I still believe 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.920 that there must be a different way. I think it's 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.720 an it's the problem that we have become used to 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:42.640 having free digital services and free incuptation mark because of course, 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.600 within really paying without private data. Cluse terms of service 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:51.040 allow user data to be shared with academic researchers, and 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:57.240 it doesn't explicitly rule out commercial use. However, i'd just 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.800 said she does not want to run targeted at or 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.840 sell user data. But Clue has thirty million dollars in 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.280 capital from investors, and she's wrestling right now with how 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.760 to turn her period app into a sustainable business. She 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.240 wouldn't talk about exactly how that might work, except to 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.960 say that she has three concrete ideas that she's working 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:24.040 on right now. Clue has already experimented with a subscription model, 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.560 charging women about one dollar a month for more data analysis. 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.160 Marie started seriously thinking about period apps after doing a 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.800 study of Clue. She was working on her master's thesis 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:43.079 and sociology and early and she interviewed ten women about 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.640 how they used the app and what they were getting 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:50.160 out of it. Some more bisexual, some heterosexual, Some wanted 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.079 to get pregnant, and some did not. They were all 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.040 getting something different out of the app. At some point, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.280 I had like nine different period apps on my phone 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.760 and I was trying to track see how different they are. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.680 And that's where we get back to the idea of 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.000 a black box. Murray had all these different apps on 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.200 her phone, but she could not see into any of them. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.800 She didn't have access to any of the code. Even Clue, 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.679 with it's easy to understand privacy policy didn't let her 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.559 see what was going on behind the screens. If we 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.240 use technology, um and we think it's useful and we 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.400 think it makes her life easier, but at the same 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.240 time we can't look behind the scenes, We can't understand 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.200 what is actually happening with the data we generate. What 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.120 is the code actually about? It became more and more 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:46.080 important to me UM to uh, to rely on open 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.840 source software. UM and so I was in a way 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.000 like unsatisfied with period apps and with I think with 0:10:55.080 --> 0:11:01.520 health trekking apps in general. By September teen, Marie was 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.640 toying with the idea of writing her own open source 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.920 period app. She had already linked up with one potential collaborator, 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.839 a thirty year old mathematician named Tina Baumant. Marie turned 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.920 to Twitter to see if anyone else was interested in 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.920 making it a more serious project. She tweeted in German 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.160 something along the lines of who wants to fiddle around 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.160 with an open source menstrual cycle app? With me? She 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.000 included a gift of a little girl with a lot 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.840 of attitude. Yeah, it's just a gift showing UM a 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:41.080 small girl UM throwing very confidently giving away three tampons. 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.560 I guess I just thought, in this moment, Okay, let's 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.840 just give it a try, and let's see what happens 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:51.880 if I tweet about it, UM and I got um 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.840 quite a few retweets, quite a few likes. More than 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.280 a dozen people responded. Among them was Julia Frazel, a 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.120 thirty four year old software developer. She became the third 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.840 member of the team and brought the coding experience they needed. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:12.040 But there was one important thing. They were still missing money. 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.280 In order to work full time on the period app project. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.480 They needed some other way to pay the rent. In 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:23.600 early they got a German government grant called the Prototype Fund. 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.600 It's designed to promote open source technology and public interest projects. 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.720 And it felt like, um, okay, this is it. We 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:36.559 really was super motivated by this fund and we thought, okay, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.679 this is our chance, now or never. Marie and her 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.760 team already had a list of ways they knew they 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.000 wanted their period app to be different. Some of them 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.840 had to do with design things like no gendered colors, pictures, 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.880 or text. Some had to do with making the tech 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.400 open source, and some had to do with how the 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.720 app itself would work and what kinds of predictions it 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:06.160 would make or not make. Beyond the privacy issues, predicting 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:10.440 when women might get pregnant is probably the most controversial 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.760 thing about period apps. Most of the commercial apps you'll 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.120 find in the app store will show you a few 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.679 days or a week when you should be most fertile. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.560 Some even give the likelihood of whether you'll get pregnant 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.880 on a certain day down to the tenth of a percent, 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:30.839 based purely on when your last periods started. But everyone's 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.960 cycle is slightly different and some irregularity is common. Cycles 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.360 can last anywhere from twenty one days to forty days. 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.439 Period apps do not come close to being fail proof 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:48.640 as contraceptives. The Drip team decided they needed to base 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.400 their app on science. They turned to Patre Frankermen, a 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:58.280 gynecologist at Heidelberg University Hospital. PIT is an expert on 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:03.880 what's called FAB or fertility awareness based methods for determining 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:08.040 when women can get pregnant. Recently, she has become interested 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.920 in period apps since more than thirty years, I'm doing 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:16.000 research on the fertile window of the female cycle and 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.560 on FAV methods, and of course I'm very interested in 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:24.320 app supporting women in using those methods. And my second 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:29.920 motivation was is that as a gynecologist, I meet young 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.920 women and teens, or I met already young women and 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:38.520 teens who experienced unplanned pregnancies with those apps, even the 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.640 daughter of a close friend of mine. Page Cluss surveyed 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.480 a dozen apps that were already on the market last 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.760 year and which claimed to help women choose the best 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.040 time of the month to have sex in order to 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.880 get pregnant. She graded then on a thirty point scale 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.760 based on how they determined the fertile window, what study 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.600 results existed to back up that less it, what study 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.000 results they had to show the app works, and whether 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.440 they offer any counseling to users. All the calendar based 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:14.720 apps she reviewed, including Clue and Flow, got zero out 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.520 of thirty points. Even Natural Cycles, a Swedish app that 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.440 asks women to input their resting body temperature or basil 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.520 body temperature for better accuracy, got only two out of 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.840 thirty points in the survey. Part of the reason PA's 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.480 team graded all the apps solo is that there's not 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.840 much independent research to show whether they work. The other 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.680 reason is that when it comes to periods, past performance 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.480 is no guarantee of what will happen in the future. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.320 Most of the apps to predictions, even if they use, 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:55.560 for example, parameters like the temperature. This is for example, 0:15:55.640 --> 0:16:01.200 the apt Natural Cycles. It does predictions as well, and 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:06.840 in our opinion, therefore they are useless for contraception. When 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.200 you say predictions, do you mean making predictions based on 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:15.320 past cycles? Past the predictions on fertile days on the 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.440 basis of past scientists. Okay, and that is is not 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.920 going to help you not get pergnant yes, or get 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:29.680 pergnant yes. Yes, due to the variation of O eolation 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:35.360 and day and fertile face even in women with fairly 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.160 regular scientists think that's something that a lot of women 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.120 don't realize. Yes, yes, that's true. This is this is 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.000 the point. So do you think people should be trusting 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:51.120 their family planning to these apps? Um? No, because most 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:56.240 apps are lacking scientific standards or they showed poor results 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:01.080 up to now. Your body can actually tell you more 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.760 about when you're likely to get pregnant. There's a method 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.200 that's been around for decades called the Symptoms thermal method. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.040 It involves taking your resting body temperature every morning and 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.680 checking your vaginal secretions to see when the cervical mucus 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.440 turns clear and stretchy like rag whites. It's a lot 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.359 more work than taking off days on a calendar, but 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.800 it fits the ethos of the project, which is helping 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.280 when and learn about their own bodies and take control 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.359 of their own fertility. I think that's the point that 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.120 you can't really predict anovulation will happen, but you can 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.160 only like watch your body symptoms to see when it happened, 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.840 and so you can only be sure after it happened. 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.640 But like I don't know, bodies are defended. Also depends 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:55.440 on your stress level or yeah, I think time zones, traveling, sleeping. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.720 There's so much it can influence of relation. At the 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.520 time of relation. That was Tina, the mathematician on the 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.080 DRIP team. Before the team could start work on the 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:12.320 project in Earnest, something ironic happened. Tina got pregnant. I 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.960 was kind of afraid to tell them because I didn't 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:17.480 know if this would mean like the end of the 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.080 project for me. I was sitting down the kitchen, like 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.520 I have to tell you something. Um no, I pricked 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.920 it in, like oh how cool, And I'm like, yeah, 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.920 I don't know what this means for the project, and 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.760 they're like, oh, we make it work. The team finally 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.720 started work on their app in April of last year. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.880 In late June, Tina had her baby. A few weeks 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.520 after that, they were back to weekly meetings at Tina's apartment, 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.960 working on the project while she breast fed. But the 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.119 prototype funding from the German government was only good for 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.439 about six months of work, and the team knew that 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.760 they would not be able to finish the entire project themselves. 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.119 They needed the open Sore part of the app to 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.280 really come into play. They needed a bigger team of 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.359 people to help code, and so we actually organized events, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.480 I think three at least. We said, hey, if you're 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.239 interested in contributing, or if you like, if you want 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.280 to see what the project is all about, you can 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.800 meet us and we will set up the project together. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.800 Because it's a little bit of a pain and I 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.480 think sometimes it even took two hours from like saying 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.679 hello to the first person having the app running on 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.600 their phone. But I think it was like it's kind 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.520 of nice to get people over this sometimes painful step, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.280 like not sitting at home and you're like, oh, why 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.080 do I get this error message? Um, and then maybe 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.560 quitting but you're sitting there all together like talking a 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.560 little bit, but also important person might be already a 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.600 step ahead and they can tell you, like what they did. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.119 The Drip team won another fellowship from the Mozilla Foundation 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.679 and that help them get the word out about the 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:06.240 project and they joined some programming workshops called Code and Cake. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.239 The workshops are run by a group of programmers who 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.720 use the coding language Ruby on rails, and they helped 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.040 teach newcomers to code. They found a lot of interest. 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.560 A designer helped figure out the user interface. Another designer 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.960 made a logo It's not Pink and Curly, and over 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.520 the course of a few months, they created an app 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.960 that lets users track population and other symptoms while keeping 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.760 their personal data privates. Along the way, the number of 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:39.720 code contributors grew from three Marie, Tina and Julia to seventeen. 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.879 Here are two of the volunteers, Sophia and Maria, a 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.120 Russian couple who live in Berlin, talking about how they 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.640 got involved. We were standing outside the Rainbow Cafe during 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.760 a break in the Drip launch party. So, okay, I 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.400 will reveal the secret. So I'm my older they working 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.800 this programmer and they is my wife and she was 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.040 really curious about programming. She actually has a degree in programming. 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.560 But it's never gonna yeah, yeah, So we decided to 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.920 make something real, like to find some project to work 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:18.479 on it on, something grills that we can potentially also use. 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.280 Sophia doesn't even have an Android phone, so she cannot 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:26.639 use drip herself, but Maria does. She had been using Flow, 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.200 the Belarusian app that came under fire for sharing data 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.359 with Facebook. So which from this ink and faery floor 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.760 and try to drip out for iditon at clue. The 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.399 Bloody Health Collective and the Drip app are a sign 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:47.040 of the times. She thinks people are caring more and 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.840 more about what health apps and the rest of the 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.679 tech industry do with their data. When a group of 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.879 people get together and say, hey, let's just build this, 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:57.919 I think that's great. I mean, it's the same that 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.679 I did, right and and very years to talk to 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:02.880 them because I think we have, you know, very much 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:04.760 on the same mission. And I would be very curious 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:06.560 also to ask them, like, what is it that you 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.560 feel that we are doing that doesn't meet your requirements? 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:12.840 Why did you feel that there is a need for this. 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.480 Widea argues that for lots of users, having their data 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.639 stored somewhere else than their phones is actually a really 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.280 good thing. It helps ensure they don't lose years worth 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.600 of period tracking data if they lose their phones. It 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:30.919 could help researchers use aggregated data from lots of different 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:36.439 users to learn more about periods themselves. And finally, because 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.520 clues developers can see how users are interacting with the app, 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.239 it's a lot easier for them to fix things that 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.560 go wrong. And then maybe they have something also to 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.080 learn from me. Who have you know, maybe seen the 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.240 limitations of what happens when you don't have a back end, 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.520 when you don't like well, maybe they want to do 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.800 something different. Now, I don't know. I don't haven't spoken 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.359 to them, but I'd be very curious to the bad sekend. 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.040 All the parts of the app that users don't really 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.639 see will be a bigger challenge for Marie and Tina's group. 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.840 They are dependent on users telling them what's working with 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.000 the ab and what isn't they cannot see it themselves. 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:18.160 And another challenge is that for now, Drip is only 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:22.520 available on git lab and Open Source Software Forum. It's 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.120 not in the app stores where most people download new 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:31.720 programs for their phones. To make the first female designed 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:36.040 open source period app a success, Drip first needs a 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.560 lot more people to start using it and even more importantly, 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.720 to give feedback about how to make it better, and 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:45.199 Marie and the team will eventually need to focus on 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:50.920 other jobs, so they need coders to contribute to it too. Yes. 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.680 One important step in creating that team was the launch 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:59.119 party at their Rainbow factory. The initial response was good. 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:02.840 Here Tam Eastley, a Canadian developer who has lived in 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.720 Berlin for years. The first thing that I was really 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:08.399 excited about is normally, when you download an app, it 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.040 says this app is going to have access to like 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.520 your camera, your location. You're like this random folder you 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:16.719 didn't even know existed, and then you you have to 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:20.280 agree otherwise you can't use it, and you're so rarely 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.040 aware of what you were agreeing to and you just 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:24.800 end up saying okay because you want to use it. 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:27.160 But with this app, it was like, this app will 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:30.080 not have access to anything on your device, and I forget. 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:32.040 I assume you had to say okay to this, but 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:34.880 I was just like, I've never ever seen this before 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:37.919 and an app this is so cool. They will need 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:40.600 to find a lot more users like Tam to make 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:43.920 drips self sustaining and to ensure that the work they've 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.320 put into it so far won't be in vain. A 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.399 few weeks after the launch, Marie told me that about 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.199 fifty beta testers had downloaded the app and suggestions for 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:58.280 tweaks to the code we're pouring in. Marie is optimistic. 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:02.919 It's also about switching the role of this passive user 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.320 to an active contributor, if you want to see it 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:09.880 like that, So being like, do I actually like that? 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:12.439 Did I expect something else? And this is kind of 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:16.240 the question that everybody can answer. Next month, the team 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.200 is planning to add Drip to f Roid, an app 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:23.240