Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Renee Stubs Tennis podcast.
Speaker 1: I am Renee Stubs and I am joined by the
Speaker 1: ever present in my life in New York, Caitlin Thompson.
Speaker 1: Ever Present. What's up, mate? We've lost pet Goo again.
Speaker 1: She's in Germany. She was working the Labor Cup, hosting
Speaker 1: a gala, hosting a gala. She wrote a great substack
Speaker 1: on that, being nervous and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: But she's our girl and we are missing her, but
Speaker 1: she shall be back. You asked me before we sat
Speaker 1: down and started looking at things to talk about. Do
Speaker 1: we have to talk about the Labor Cup? I want
Speaker 1: to talk about the Labor Cup, okay, because I want
Speaker 1: to know if you gave up a living, breathing, dead
Speaker 1: breath about watching Labor Cup. No, did you watch any
Speaker 1: of the Labor Cup? No? Not that did I not one.
Speaker 1: I think I flipped over like a couple of times
Speaker 1: when I was watching something else on TV and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, the Labor Cups on a one who's playing?
Speaker 1: And then I'd flick it over and I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I don't care.
Speaker 2: I don't hate exhibitions. I'm not mad at exhibition matches.
Speaker 2: I don't have like a B and my bonnet about like, well,
Speaker 2: if it's not for points, it doesn't county.
Speaker 1: I don't really care about that. I like uts.
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of innovative, and I like the
Speaker 2: fact that it's like a little silly, you know. I
Speaker 2: love the fact that sometimes in the middle of no
Speaker 2: tennis we get an exhibition here and there and random
Speaker 2: places preseason. But yeah, for whatever reason, the Labor Cup has.
Speaker 1: Just never done it for me. It just feels so contrived.
Speaker 1: It's so.
Speaker 2: Cheesey, like the branding is cheesy, it's so try hard
Speaker 2: in a way that I just like, I'm sure the
Speaker 2: tennis is good, and I like a lot of the players,
Speaker 2: no disrespect whatsoever, get paid, get your bag, whatever. It's
Speaker 2: just the whole thing feels like a man marketer from
Speaker 2: the eighties.
Speaker 1: He is trying to convince you that, like this isould
Speaker 1: be interested in this, and I just can't. Well, they
Speaker 1: tried to obviously do it, right, a cup style tennis
Speaker 1: for tennis, right, That's that was the premise behind it,
Speaker 1: and the premise behind it was you know, Ryder Cup
Speaker 1: is so popular.
Speaker 2: Which is a golf competition where half if the teams
Speaker 2: are from.
Speaker 1: The women just played the Solheim Cup, which got great crowds.
Speaker 1: It was great fun. I watched it considerably over that
Speaker 1: the weekend and the days that it was being played.
Speaker 1: I know people are probably out there going lament the golf,
Speaker 1: but it's like, no, it was actually really entertaining, really entertaining.
Speaker 1: It comes down to the wire often Ryder Cups and
Speaker 1: Solheim Cups, and they have like different like ways in
Speaker 1: the days that they play the Solheim and Ryder Club
Speaker 1: where they do see I told you I was going
Speaker 1: to get a cough today where they do a four
Speaker 1: ball best ball, And for those of you who don't
Speaker 1: know golf, it's just like it's basically different ways to
Speaker 1: play at the team events where they support each other.
Speaker 1: Right one hits an alternate ball, so you hit the
Speaker 1: drive and then and then my partner hits the net.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, but with teammates. And then the next day
Speaker 1: it's best ball, meaning you both hit off, you both
Speaker 1: score the hole, and whoever's scores the best on that
Speaker 1: hole wins the hole. Right pick the higher scoring between
Speaker 1: the two teams. So that's cool. It's always very like
Speaker 1: I like innovation in sports I like, and that's what
Speaker 1: it is. I like team sports. I like a lot
Speaker 1: of it. And then on the last day to finish
Speaker 1: off my Ryder Cup Soul home thing. On the last day,
Speaker 1: it's one on one, right, So you've gone as a
Speaker 1: team back and forth for three days and then the
Speaker 1: last day it's one on one.
Speaker 2: And who every side counts? Who picks like the best
Speaker 2: player from each team.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's a scoring system to get into the team.
Speaker 1: And then you get a couple of wild card picks
Speaker 1: from the captain.
Speaker 2: So the captain is involved the big choices big time.
Speaker 1: They picked the team, they picked the players, and the
Speaker 1: players are desperate to be on the teams. Like I'm
Speaker 1: talking desperate. It is like you talk to a golfer,
Speaker 1: they'll say one of my you know, the late great
Speaker 1: Pain Stewart, who I was friends with because we lived
Speaker 1: in the same area in Orlando. And one of the
Speaker 1: last conversations I had with Paine was he said, I
Speaker 1: want to win one more major, Stubsy, and I love
Speaker 1: to make the Ryder Cup team again. Like it's so
Speaker 1: important for these golfers. So we need to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to make something very similar in tennis, and
Speaker 1: I did tweet out. I think I retweeted a video
Speaker 1: that Nelly call a quarter put out in the first
Speaker 1: hole where the you know, people were going crazy and
Speaker 1: there was music played and it was such a fun atmosphere,
Speaker 1: Like we need this in tennis, well, meaning not every year.
Speaker 1: We can't have Labor Cup. We talked about this last week,
Speaker 1: Labor Cup, United Cup, Hopman Cup, Blah Blah Cup, Billy,
Speaker 1: Olympian Cup. It's like it's too much in one year,
Speaker 1: particularly during the Olympic years.
Speaker 2: Well, when you were talking about how excited people were
Speaker 2: to make the team, I mean that sounds like the
Speaker 2: Olympics to me, which is like, you know, Daniel Collins
Speaker 2: famously was like, I want to make the Olympics. I'm
Speaker 2: going to need to play X amount of tournament to
Speaker 2: do that between March and you know whatever.
Speaker 1: The cut off date was early.
Speaker 2: Summer and right, and like going to be on the
Speaker 2: Olympic team and getting the blazer and doing the whole
Speaker 2: thing is cool, and so you know, I don't in
Speaker 2: any way want to slag the idea that we have.
Speaker 2: You know, old Guard, it was cool. I saw some
Speaker 2: of the photos from Labor Cup. It was cool seeingianik Noah,
Speaker 2: who's you know, obviously one of my favorite people, which
Speaker 2: is why I chose to put.
Speaker 1: Him on the cover of the first issue.
Speaker 2: You know, Like, but I will say the the I
Speaker 2: don't know. I just I can't get that excited about
Speaker 2: it for reasons that it feels like such a simulate.
Speaker 1: Crom of of a.
Speaker 2: Man's marketing fantasy that I just feel like I'm being
Speaker 2: sold a product that I don't want. It feels like,
Speaker 2: you know, Ron Popeel's Pocket Fishermen. It's like, who's this for?
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want this.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, we talked about this last
Speaker 1: week about and some people liked my idea, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's a former Sam Stoza Playout Friend Play Eye coach
Speaker 1: player applied with that said, oh, I never thought about
Speaker 1: the idea of like shutting the season down after the
Speaker 1: US Open and maybe having some of these team events
Speaker 1: where they really become important. Right, you could have a
Speaker 1: mixed event after yeah, the US Open, I would I
Speaker 1: would argue to say, you know, a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: you have a massive team event in X you know,
Speaker 1: and then you have a teams event where you combine
Speaker 1: men and women in x whether it be South America
Speaker 1: or you know, places that don't South Africa, Like, let's
Speaker 1: take it to places on the road that don't get
Speaker 1: to have the tour, you know. And if China wants
Speaker 1: to put a shipload of money into tennis, as they.
Speaker 2: Do, and now they have great players with four men,
Speaker 2: have a huge tournament, a deep run this very week,
Speaker 2: can you imagine.
Speaker 1: China against like Australia and asked in a true World
Speaker 1: Cup and I would argue as to say, as much
Speaker 1: as you know how much we both love Billy Jean King,
Speaker 1: have a team's tennis style way to do it and
Speaker 1: the excitement in that playing to six is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Well true the World team from the seventies, eighties, and
Speaker 2: nineties World Team Tennis. Yeah, I agree completely, and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, in addition to these season changes, I think uh, shortening, condensing, consolidating. Yeah, like,
Speaker 2: let's make room for this the unique thing that tennis
Speaker 2: has done uniquely for almost a century. I don't know
Speaker 2: when the first mixed event was held, but like mixed
Speaker 2: doubles where men and women play on the same field.
Speaker 1: At the same time, World Team tennis.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, but it predated World Team Tennis. Well,
Speaker 2: we have a mixed doublet gran That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Like that alone was innovation in and of itself that
Speaker 2: other sports have only really cottoned on too in the
Speaker 2: last five or so years. Now. You have an Olympic
Speaker 2: relay in swimming, you have an Olympic really in skiing,
Speaker 2: like everyone realizes like, oh, it's really fun when we
Speaker 2: get everybody involved. And so yeah, Labor Cup. I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to shut on it. It sounded like the Gala. I'm
Speaker 2: sure because Andrea I hosted. It was funny, it was
Speaker 2: cool to see you know, a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but wouldn't it be great if you had Teblinka
Speaker 1: in that.
Speaker 2: Were to Well that's the album with the Labor Cups.
Speaker 2: For me, it's like, well, yeah, so just a bunch
Speaker 2: of dudes, also the types of dudes.
Speaker 1: That nobody loves Rod Labor more than me. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's the greatest guy in the history of the world.
Speaker 1: He's the nicest man you'll ever meet in your life.
Speaker 1: So it's certainly not a slide. I mean, and listen,
Speaker 1: I I understand why they decided to do I understand
Speaker 1: why Roger thought this is you know, and teammate thought
Speaker 1: this is a Tennis Australia because those that own it,
Speaker 1: those are the people that I know Tennis Australia, and
Speaker 1: teammate funded pretty Usta as well. So the Grand Slams
Speaker 1: had a huge part in this Labor Cup. So guys,
Speaker 1: why not get together and have a world true World
Speaker 1: Cup and really get your money?
Speaker 2: Well, I think you just said way because it involves
Speaker 2: everyone getting together.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a concept we don't understanding.
Speaker 2: Something tennis has yet to grapple with. The if the USTs.
Speaker 1: Well, that was another thing Australia.
Speaker 2: So everybody would have to play nicely, which we are
Speaker 2: all waiting for you guys to do. Imagine how great
Speaker 2: this board is when we're all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so listen. Another thing to also consider in this
Speaker 1: conversation is what are the lesser players going to do?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Because obviously not everyone's going to make the World Cup
Speaker 1: teams right for Australia, for US or for China, et cetera. Right,
Speaker 1: So what are you going to do with the player
Speaker 1: that's ranked one hundred and fifty to two hundred in
Speaker 1: the world or three hundred in the world, or even
Speaker 1: eighty in the world. That's not going to make their
Speaker 1: You know, the Czech Republic could fit seventeen players into
Speaker 1: like top twenty. You know, they could have two teams,
Speaker 1: so you have the smaller tournament. Still you still have
Speaker 1: the one twenty five's maybe two fifties. The WTA and
Speaker 1: ATP get together and try and fit the schedule around
Speaker 1: for the lesser players to play. I shouldn't say lesser players,
Speaker 1: but lower ranked players to play. So you do need
Speaker 1: to have viability for those players to move up in
Speaker 1: the rankings. And then you know people are going to say, well,
Speaker 1: then the top players that are playing these team events
Speaker 1: are not going to get points, right, so they can
Speaker 1: move up and down the ladder. Well, you consider giving
Speaker 1: bonus points for matches one or lost at these events,
Speaker 1: or you figure out a way that the top players
Speaker 1: aren't penalized with points and rankings. Maybe you freeze it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but there's certainly some I just think
Speaker 1: that there's after the I don't give a shit what's
Speaker 1: happening right now?
Speaker 2: Oh I care a lot. I just don't care about
Speaker 2: the layer out. I watched Korea okay partially because racket.
Speaker 2: I launched a Korean footprint there, you know, but a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't know. Like we showed up hard
Speaker 2: in Korea. We're going to be had to go amazing.
Speaker 2: You brought a ton of tennis newbies who have been
Speaker 2: playing tennis in the basements of malls, which is how
Speaker 2: a lot of Korean young people play sports because spaces
Speaker 2: at a premium and there's a lot of development in
Speaker 2: the city. And we brought them to a pro tennis
Speaker 2: tournament for the first time in partnership with the WTA,
Speaker 2: in partnership with the original beer company, which was like
Speaker 2: the hipster beer, and we made all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: like a big party happened between the grassroots tennis recreational
Speaker 2: players and the pro game, which we want to see
Speaker 2: more of. Like so obviously I watched that. I watched
Speaker 2: Kazakia hadad Maaya that was a great final. I watched
Speaker 2: Emirati Kan who have a couple of top ten or
Speaker 2: top fifty wins which she hasn't.
Speaker 1: Had in a while and now has pulled out a Beijing.
Speaker 2: And now she's pulled out of Beijing because she's hurt again.
Speaker 2: But like I want to watch tennis in all places
Speaker 2: throughout the year. I agree the season is too long
Speaker 2: and somebody's got to give way, But I'm I care.
Speaker 2: I watched Jijiang and the young up and coming Chinese
Speaker 2: player whose name is escaping me at the moment, who
Speaker 2: are about to play a final I think in hung
Speaker 2: Joe like, I'm into it, and so for me, I
Speaker 2: don't care necessarily where the tennis is taking place. I
Speaker 2: like the fact that it's real, they care about it,
Speaker 2: and for a lot of these players, it's their home soil.
Speaker 2: It's where they get to shine, especially as the sport diversifies.
Speaker 1: So they haven't met. I haven't played that final yet,
Speaker 1: and it's Jiang and Chilich playing a final inhung Zho.
Speaker 1: They are in the final, those two, so we'll know
Speaker 1: at some point. So Juju Young just is cool. He
Speaker 1: is triple Z TRIPLESZ, TRIPLEZ. So yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: You know, we've talked about scheduling at nauseum. Something's got
Speaker 2: to give. I don't think necessarily Asia should lose its time.
Speaker 2: It's time, just maybe not this time on the calendar.
Speaker 2: We need to figure out a way to make it
Speaker 2: a little bit more conducive to you know, when people
Speaker 2: are playing when the weather is cooperated, cooperating, and when
Speaker 2: it's a tough w I know, and when we can
Speaker 2: you know, reasonably expect these players to keep their bodies
Speaker 2: in one piece.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's that's another part of the issue. Right,
Speaker 1: You've got players pulling out left and right. You've got
Speaker 1: you know, igaon Tech has decided that she's just shutting
Speaker 1: it down. By the looks of it, seems like a
Speaker 1: Bakina shut it down a whole different story.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, we think, but she's saying no. But she's
Speaker 2: saying her back is the issue. She hasn't publicly said
Speaker 2: what it is if it's not an injury. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's not not her back, but I also you know,
Speaker 2: by her own what she's.
Speaker 1: Kind of injuries is saying listen, that she's got to
Speaker 1: You'd have to be a dummy not to know. There's
Speaker 1: a lot more going on there for sure. And I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a player that I'm written for. This girl.
Speaker 1: We all are, by the way. This is you know,
Speaker 1: a player that arguably at her best, is the best
Speaker 1: player in the world. Yeah, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you remember her dismantling Saber Lenka at the start
Speaker 1: of the year in Brisbane, where she made Sabilenka literally
Speaker 1: look like she could not play tennis on her best surface.
Speaker 1: Two weeks later went and won the Austraian Open. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: well three weeks later technically, but what did she do
Speaker 1: after winning Brisbane? Rebeckn I mean pet Coo and I
Speaker 1: talked about this, because we're so on her about this.
Speaker 1: She went and played Adelaide. What in the WTF are
Speaker 1: you going to play Adelaide for? What WTA? What the
Speaker 1: WTF are doing going and playing Adelaide prior to the
Speaker 1: Austrain Open when you just won Brisbane? And then she
Speaker 1: went into the Austrain Open and had a little bit
Speaker 1: of an injury and then lost that epic tie break
Speaker 1: to Blinkover and really after that also had a couple
Speaker 1: of great tournaments and then all of a sudden this
Speaker 1: obviously something going on with the coach. He has disappeared
Speaker 1: as well from the tour, and his word is that
Speaker 1: he's been banned from the tour. So there's just something
Speaker 1: going on there that we clearly don't know first hand
Speaker 1: knowledge of, but it's pretty bloody obvious.
Speaker 2: That she is obviously okay, and I hope she's being
Speaker 2: taken care of behind the scenes and you know, but.
Speaker 1: Also with Eger, it's interesting that she's decided to pull
Speaker 1: out too, so there's obviously something going on with her
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's, to her great credit, she has been
Speaker 2: putting your money where her mouth is and sort of
Speaker 2: saying like, hey, this is really hard on our bodies.
Speaker 2: It's hard on our sleep cycles, it's hard on our
Speaker 2: mental states, you know. And I really respect that about
Speaker 2: a player, especially one who is the number one player
Speaker 2: in the world, using their platform to sort of you know,
Speaker 2: she's not complaining, she's constructively sort of saying like, hey,
Speaker 2: this is another way that this could be better. What
Speaker 2: if we made the season show like you know, And
Speaker 2: I think I respect that tremendously because I think these players,
Speaker 2: especially as they get higher in the ranks and they
Speaker 2: stay there and they get interviewed a and they get
Speaker 2: the chance to use their platforms to make change and
Speaker 2: eventually become part of the you know, player councils or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. You know, they're they're actually using it
Speaker 2: to advocate.
Speaker 1: And we do have to congratulate Eager because she passed
Speaker 1: and became the number one in the world for a
Speaker 1: certain amount of weeks where she became one of the
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find that. I did take a screenshot
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, she passed as passed number. It is
Speaker 1: of we is spending her one hundred and twenty second
Speaker 1: career week at number one this week, passing Ash Barty
Speaker 1: for standalone seventh most weeks at number one in the
Speaker 1: w TA ranking history. That's impressive. She follows Graf Navradlova,
Speaker 1: Serena Evatt, Hingus, and sell Us Allus. So that is
Speaker 1: a certainly a group. Can we just talk about Monca
Speaker 1: for a second. Sure?
Speaker 2: We published in this last issue of the magazine a
Speaker 2: very glowing remembrance of Monica Sellis pre worst day of
Speaker 2: her life and pre the time that ended up being
Speaker 2: what I think defined a lot of her life and career.
Speaker 2: And it was such a fun story because it reminded
Speaker 2: people that she was not just crushing everyone on court,
Speaker 2: winning you know, something like seven out of eight slams
Speaker 2: terror for that three year period right there, you were
Speaker 2: right there. But also like she was bubbly, she was funny,
Speaker 2: she was into Madonna, she was on lead shows, like
Speaker 2: she was well, she.
Speaker 1: Was okay time out here. I would say Monica was
Speaker 1: the shyest arguably maybe second to maybe No. I think
Speaker 1: she more shy than Stepfi even and both of them. Sure.
Speaker 1: It was interesting because they were both very similar like
Speaker 1: did not like the spotlight, did not like media attention.
Speaker 1: Monica used to wear a wig when she was younger
Speaker 1: to go out in public. I love that because she
Speaker 1: did not want to be recognized and she was very
Speaker 1: paranoid about being out in public. Well, there was a
Speaker 1: versionage she did that and went on to those TV shows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so did. I think. I believe Steffie did as well
Speaker 1: in the top plays you get on those shows at
Speaker 1: the US Open.
Speaker 2: My point is we saw a bubbly version of her
Speaker 2: that was innocent, fun loving, and maybe, yes, she was
Speaker 2: shy for most of it, but I think.
Speaker 1: She was always a little paranoid about stuff.
Speaker 2: Maybe, But I guess the point that I'm trying to
Speaker 2: make by the wooden woman who interviewed her forty times
Speaker 2: is that let's remember that that was part of her
Speaker 2: legacy as well. Let's remember that she was.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anyone else walk out under rolling girls,
Speaker 1: throwing roses, love the crowd? Love it. I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I love it was it her? Yeah, it was her.
Speaker 1: I was thinking it was Hingus. No, No, it was her.
Speaker 1: Hingus would never Hina was throwing a racket into the crash.
Speaker 1: Can we actually, while I'm talking about throwing rackets in
Speaker 1: the crowd, can we talk about Meddi speaking of going back,
Speaker 1: backing it up, backing it up to labor Cup. What
Speaker 1: the living f was he doing throwing that racket that
Speaker 1: went into the It didn't go into the crowd because
Speaker 1: there was like this gap between the court and the
Speaker 1: actual audience, and so for him to throw it in
Speaker 1: the crowd, he'd have to really throw it higher or
Speaker 1: bounce it a lot harder. But it went near a
Speaker 1: couple of the crew and a couple of people sitting
Speaker 1: around the court. I think that the WTA and ATP
Speaker 1: to them need to make a blanket rule. If you
Speaker 1: throw your racket and it leaves the court, no matter what,
Speaker 1: you are defaulted, because now the rule is if it
Speaker 1: doesn't hit anybody. Yeah, I'm like, oh so if I
Speaker 1: if I'm sitting in that crowd and I moved my
Speaker 1: head just a little bit to the left and it
Speaker 1: just misses me, oh, that's okay. The same thing happened
Speaker 1: at Wimbledon. Would sit the pass when he piffed a
Speaker 1: ball and it went into the crowd on court one
Speaker 1: and it almost hit a lot of people. And I
Speaker 1: don't know it hidn't hit him hard enough or somebody caught.
Speaker 1: I mean I remember a referee saying to me, and
Speaker 1: this is a true story in Washington, DC. I think
Speaker 1: it sits a pass. Actually he ripped a ball up
Speaker 1: into the crowd, and usually we're trying to hit it
Speaker 1: out of the crowd, so it doesn't quote unquote hit someone, right,
Speaker 1: because you know, if you get it over the crowd,
Speaker 1: if it does hit someone, no one sees it, okay,
Speaker 1: because no one was watching it. A guy caught the ball,
Speaker 1: caught it in his hand, and the referee was sitting
Speaker 1: next to me, and I go ah, and this is
Speaker 1: what I'm telling you. He didn't even get a warning.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting. And I looked at this particular referee and
Speaker 1: I go ah, what and he goes, well, it didn't
Speaker 1: hit anyway, he caught it. I go, oh, so that's okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? I think a very clear.
Speaker 2: Designation is in court out of court if you yeah,
Speaker 2: a good point.
Speaker 1: I mean, and listen, I was the worst, Okay. I
Speaker 1: was not a patron saint of humility and happiness on
Speaker 1: the court. I mean, renee got a little bit ungray.
Speaker 1: So this is coming from somebody who did have a
Speaker 1: short fuse on the tennis court. But I didn't do
Speaker 1: that shit, Like I just berated myself half the time
Speaker 1: or an umpire or you know, lines person.
Speaker 2: But I think throwing your stuff around is childish. It's
Speaker 2: a bad look. It's your profession. I understand that people
Speaker 2: get upset, but yeah, Like I think the easy rule
Speaker 2: is anything that leaves your hand, that leaves.
Speaker 1: The court, that's it. That's it. Boom.
Speaker 2: We can add on to things like, oh, if you
Speaker 2: throw your racket and it hits somebody on the court,
Speaker 2: like a ball kit or something like that, But I
Speaker 2: think the blanket rule is don't throw anything that is
Speaker 2: leaving the field of play. Yea.
Speaker 1: Otherwise yeah, yeah, you're done. Yeah. Can you imagine it's
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, well they just moved the head, so
Speaker 1: it's fine. Oh so you're gonna wape for a racket
Speaker 1: actually hit someone in the middle of the forehead and
Speaker 1: like cut their skin.
Speaker 2: Well, this is the whole thing with Djokovic where everyone
Speaker 2: was like, but it didn't hit him. It's like, but
Speaker 2: he's been throwing no, no, no, no, not the umpire
Speaker 2: who he did hit with the ball, but he chucked
Speaker 2: a racket and oh yes, it nearly hit the umpire
Speaker 2: and they were like ha ha ha, but it didn't
Speaker 2: and it was like such a joke. It was taken
Speaker 2: not seriously at all by anybody. And it's like no
Speaker 2: because this one fleet footed linesman like jumped out of
Speaker 2: the way. Yeah, like is that going to be the standard? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like you've seen some of the lines of people at
Speaker 2: these tournaments. I mean obviously lines people are generally going away,
Speaker 2: but like there's lots of people on the court. There's
Speaker 2: security people, there's spall kids, there's are we all supposed
Speaker 2: to like make them fly, you know, watch out for
Speaker 2: flying objects that could potentially hurt them. Yeah, while they're
Speaker 2: trying to do their jobs. This is a workplace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's we need to we need to crack down
Speaker 1: on that stuff. I love that.
Speaker 2: I like when we get like scolding and moralized.
Speaker 1: Yes, especially me, who's such a cycle on the court.
Speaker 1: I love it. I know that you're a little depressed
Speaker 1: coming in here today because it's fall. Oh my god, see,
Speaker 1: I know you so well. I walked out of my
Speaker 1: apartment today and it was cold, and I went, oh,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, Caitlin's gonna hate. It's gonna hate today.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to I'm trying to practice manifestation of positivity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to become a fall person. All right, Great
Speaker 2: now because also I'm going to port a Fino in
Speaker 2: two weeks, so I don't have to wait.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to port Afino in two weeks to
Speaker 2: do a big project for Racket.
Speaker 1: We're going to do a giant couldn't you have done
Speaker 1: that around the Billy Jean Kinkop so I could come.
Speaker 2: There's a chance that we made us to be doing
Speaker 2: a project in Spain.
Speaker 1: Let's see. Okay, Well, you can let me know when
Speaker 1: we're not doing this podcast.
Speaker 2: But I hopefully it'll also be warm and coastal Italy.
Speaker 1: I know everyone wants to hit tennis stuff, but I
Speaker 1: just want to update everyone on the fact that the
Speaker 1: New York Liberty won. They're opening a playoff game yesterday
Speaker 1: and I am a huge WNBA fan. I freaking love
Speaker 1: watching women's basketball, and I'll tell you why. As a
Speaker 1: tennis player. Yes, I think tennis is arguably the hardest
Speaker 1: sport in the world to play, just physically mentally. I
Speaker 1: mean it matches out matches in Asia this last week
Speaker 1: in the women's matches, they were going over four hours.
Speaker 2: Brutal and also it was like one hundred percent of
Speaker 2: humanity and.
Speaker 1: Exprut Sigmund just leves playing over four hours and cats
Speaker 1: Akina and all these guys. But you know, I watched
Speaker 1: the physicality of women's basketball basketball in general, but women's basketball.
Speaker 1: You know why they wear sleeves because they get cut
Speaker 1: all the time with their nails and people banging. Notice
Speaker 1: how basketball players wear sleep I thought that was for
Speaker 1: like muscle. Oh no, it's to stop them from bleeding
Speaker 1: literally because they get cut. Because even if you have
Speaker 1: short nails and you you know, your hand comes down.
Speaker 1: The bruising on w NBA players just look at their
Speaker 1: arms when they go and play. They're bruised out the
Speaker 1: wazoo because they're getting beat up like hell under it.
Speaker 1: So for you guys not watching, turn on ESPN because
Speaker 1: ESPN has all the playoffs, and the games yesterday were great,
Speaker 1: and your son and your wife Claire went to the game.
Speaker 1: They did thanks to you. Never seen Peter your son
Speaker 1: looking more excited ever. So it's just a great family experience.
Speaker 1: I love he apparently got on the jumbo tround. I
Speaker 1: was weaving his flag. That's what I'm saying. It was great.
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm as somebody who doesn't like the sport of basketball.
Speaker 2: I support good for you, all right. We got a
Speaker 2: lot of questions.
Speaker 1: Of course. Naomi Osaka is present with Patrick Moritaglu in Asia.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of interesting comments coming on that situation.
Speaker 1: We will see where it turns out. And oft when
Speaker 1: you start working with a player and you're new, they
Speaker 1: do have good results early on because they're like, they
Speaker 1: feel fresh, they feel like they get enthusiastic about doing
Speaker 1: stuff and they get a new voice in their head.
Speaker 1: And we've seen it happen over the last year with
Speaker 1: some players with new coaches and bang they have great
Speaker 1: results and then it slowly fizzles out because you know relationships, right,
Speaker 1: it's like being in a relationship having coached player. So
Speaker 1: see how long it lasts. And we'll see if he
Speaker 1: can turn her around. But certainly in.
Speaker 2: Your view as a coach, what would you suggest to Naomi,
Speaker 2: what's the solution here? Well, I mean, look, she's moving better.
Speaker 2: She started the year not moving great. She ended at
Speaker 2: least in the last couple of tournaments moving better. Her
Speaker 2: groundstrokes were as fearsome as ever. She just when she's
Speaker 2: what do you think she's actually like it needs to
Speaker 2: be addressed here.
Speaker 1: Just you know, she just needs to cut down our
Speaker 1: enforced errors. Like this is a woman that can hit
Speaker 1: a winner from anywhere. And I think once she gets
Speaker 1: into that rhythm of not missing, and when she was
Speaker 1: at her very best, she could make five, six, seven
Speaker 1: balls and then go bomb.
Speaker 2: But can you coach somebody to be like, hey, make
Speaker 2: less error?
Speaker 1: You can tell them to rather than try that.
Speaker 2: I would like that advice, but I don't. But there's
Speaker 2: nothing more to it than that.
Speaker 1: Well, you have to practice it first of all. So
Speaker 1: it comes in the form of discipline on the practice court.
Speaker 1: It comes in, you know, the discipline to not get
Speaker 1: upset at yourself on the practice court, making sure your
Speaker 1: players not getting down about stuff that they're doing that
Speaker 1: you want them to do. Let's just say, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're running for a fourhander, you're running for a backhand.
Speaker 1: The majority of players, as you'll see, will hit it
Speaker 1: back cross court. It's over the lower part of the
Speaker 1: debt percent higher percentage, more room to hit the ball,
Speaker 1: and you would then force your opponent to make a
Speaker 1: choice do I go line, do I change the direction
Speaker 1: of the ball, or do I go back cross court
Speaker 1: as well. Now, most players, when you them hit a
Speaker 1: ball on the run cross court, often they would just
Speaker 1: sort of stand in that area because they know, oh,
Speaker 1: you want to go line, go for it. So most
Speaker 1: players will go cross It's why you see these cross
Speaker 1: court rallies, cross court rallies, cross cross and then finally
Speaker 1: someone goes, fay, I'm going line, you know, and they
Speaker 1: go for it. Right now, they might hit a great shot.
Speaker 1: Now your opponent is really moving. Now you can, you know,
Speaker 1: get up to the ball hopefully don't hit to go anyway.
Speaker 1: The reason I'm telling you that is it's just simplicity, right.
Speaker 1: Tennis is really quite simple in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: It's how many more balls can I make than you
Speaker 1: in the court, and my depth of shot is going
Speaker 1: to force you to have to go cross court and
Speaker 1: I'm going to stand here and wait for my short ball,
Speaker 1: and so it's length on ball, it's length length in
Speaker 1: the court. It's not going for the sideline all the time.
Speaker 1: She has the power to be able to hit through someone,
Speaker 1: even if it's you know, three feet from the baseline,
Speaker 1: maybe two feet from the base line and three feet
Speaker 1: from the sideline. So I would just be practicing discipline
Speaker 1: with her, you know, like make every one of these balls.
Speaker 1: And then it's sort of like how Coco played last year,
Speaker 1: where she didn't make an error and then she waited,
Speaker 1: she didn't make an err on a forehand, then she
Speaker 1: waited for the back ends, and then you know, after
Speaker 1: five or six shots, players get panicky and they don't
Speaker 1: know where to go. Where do I go? On Coco,
Speaker 1: That's how it was last year, and that's how Naomi
Speaker 1: has to sort of set up her way of playing
Speaker 1: as well, Shit, where do I go? Because I know
Speaker 1: if I hit anything short, She's going to crush me.
Speaker 1: So it's a matter of discipline on the practice court,
Speaker 1: on the match courts, and clearly making her serve the
Speaker 1: weapon that it is and not losing serve. I would
Speaker 1: focus on two things with her control your service games
Speaker 1: and cut down your unforced eras. Go for a little
Speaker 1: more percentage, but still go for it, but just bring
Speaker 1: the margins in a little bit. It's really simple with her.
Speaker 1: And then the longer points she plays Caitlin, the more
Speaker 1: fits you get, the faster she gets.
Speaker 2: The more confident she gets totally, and those become like virtuous.
Speaker 1: She doesn't need it mentally to be told you can
Speaker 1: win a Grand Slam. No, no, no, yeah, which is a
Speaker 1: big step, right, just not everybody has that. Now has
Speaker 1: the belief, oh I made a final, she played well
Speaker 1: in a finale. I can win one. So now the
Speaker 1: mental side for Jessica has shifted a lot. Right now,
Speaker 1: it's well, she's not worrying about quarters anymore or even
Speaker 1: semis that that is broken. She never has to think
Speaker 1: about that ever again. Can I Yes, she knows I can, right,
Speaker 1: So that's done. So that's that you know, you ticked
Speaker 1: lists right when you're when you're coaching a player and
Speaker 1: you say, do you think you can make a SENTI?
Speaker 1: Well I think so what let's talk about this, right,
Speaker 1: Let's really why can't you? So that's when you've got
Speaker 1: to go through all the mental.
Speaker 2: Stuff as a coach and is Patrick they going to
Speaker 2: do this?
Speaker 1: Only time will tell, Caitlin, Only time work will tell.
Speaker 2: One thing that we were complimented for but also ripped
Speaker 2: a little was that we did not talk about Brad
Speaker 2: and oh Coco split because are coaching?
Speaker 1: Well, because it hadn't happened when we spoke.
Speaker 2: Last episode had predated the news. It seemed pretty inevitable. Yes,
Speaker 2: but also, you don't know until you know. You don't
Speaker 2: know until you know, and I wonder, you know, we've
Speaker 2: talked at length about what Coco should be doing. I
Speaker 2: hope she does what she was doing last year that
Speaker 2: was so effective. You know, I think pretty much everyone
Speaker 2: in the sport, pretty much everyone watching the sport thinks
Speaker 2: the sport is better with Coco going deep, contending, playing
Speaker 2: great and not looking.
Speaker 1: Listen, tell my ESPN executive producers that absolutely they want
Speaker 1: Coco deep. For sure brings great numbers for TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's bringing fanship and enthusiasm and people are
Speaker 2: you know, really really really excited when she's playing.
Speaker 1: Well, let's get to these questions then, for everybody, thank
Speaker 1: you for writing in so yeah, this is so fun,
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah. Yeah, So let's start speaking of
Speaker 1: Joe Yesharoff, I hope I said that right enough. I didn't. Palojz.
Speaker 1: You told views exactly what Coco was doing wrong on
Speaker 1: her serve in front of Brad, which was awesome. By
Speaker 1: the way, Why don't you become her next coach? Well, Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just an accident. I actually hadn't read that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd sort of breeze through them, but no,
Speaker 1: I wanted to answer them alive on air because I
Speaker 1: don't make those decisions, Joe. Those decisions with any coaching
Speaker 1: situation comes from the agent in her. In respect to Coco,
Speaker 1: I would imagine her agents, her parents, and then Coco
Speaker 1: and the three of those will talk amongst themselves. I'm
Speaker 1: sure would.
Speaker 2: You do it?
Speaker 1: Oh of course I would do it. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say no to an opportunity working with a
Speaker 1: great player. There's no way. Of course I would do it.
Speaker 1: But that's not a decision for me to make. And
Speaker 1: I love Coco. I think she's an incredible kid. And
Speaker 1: I can say kid because she's like more than half
Speaker 1: my age, a lot more than half my age. And
Speaker 1: I think she's an incredibly hard worker. I respect the
Speaker 1: heck out of her, and she has only ever been
Speaker 1: an amazing person to be around. Yeah, she's a good human.
Speaker 1: She responds to you, she looks you in the eye.
Speaker 1: I do see she's a lot more stressed on the
Speaker 1: court over the last twelve months. I don't know the
Speaker 1: answer to that. I don't know why. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of it has to do with just not having
Speaker 1: this success that she wanted to have immediately after winning
Speaker 1: the US Open. So it's a lot on her shoulders.
Speaker 1: But look, I just hope whoever she chooses, here's a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of experience, and you know it can work
Speaker 1: on the little technical flaws. She has to have someone
Speaker 1: like that to work on those technical floors and not
Speaker 1: be afraid to work on those technical flaws.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You know, even with my time with Carolina Plishkova, one
Speaker 1: of the first things I did was say your serf
Speaker 1: can be way better, and everyone probably looked at me like, well,
Speaker 1: she's like aces, she's the ace queen. Yeah, well there
Speaker 1: are technical flaws still wrong with her surf, for example.
Speaker 1: That you know, you've got to be willing to go
Speaker 1: in there and say I don't need this job but
Speaker 1: I want this job and I want to help you,
Speaker 1: And those are the two things a lot coaches don't do.
Speaker 1: They go and say, can you pay my rent for me?
Speaker 1: That's true? Yeah, you know? All right? Next, all right?
Speaker 1: Were you oh gosh, it's just one after the other.
Speaker 1: Were you surprised at Cocoa and Brad parted ways? And
Speaker 1: who do you think her next coach will be? Julia Eager?
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I think we kind of sort
Speaker 1: of answered that question. Okay, Ron buckmele, you'll like this one.
Speaker 1: Should real tennis fans care about Labor Cup or only
Speaker 1: when Kully toss plays it?
Speaker 2: I mean I care about Corolitos plenty too, in any context.
Speaker 2: I guess it just wasn't enough to get me to
Speaker 2: watch the Laver Cup. Should real tennis flans? I think
Speaker 2: real tennis fans can define themselves however they want. Real
Speaker 2: tennis fans can watch their neighborhood, you know, Ladder, They
Speaker 2: can what a local club, the high school team. I
Speaker 2: think they can do whatever they want. I think for
Speaker 2: me to take the Labor Cup seriously, I would like
Speaker 2: for it to include women, and I would like for
Speaker 2: it to be a little bit more thoughtful about where
Speaker 2: it travels peror our conversation earlier exactly, okay, James. Also
Speaker 2: the law and Order font. I just can't get over this.
Speaker 2: It looks like a guy from Ohio who's an agent,
Speaker 2: had the entire hand and doing all of this, and
Speaker 2: I just the taste level is so bad.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about anyone in particular. Go on, Okay,
Speaker 1: good j Miller delighted with the WTA Tour players, a
Speaker 1: little worried about today's all court game though, and how
Speaker 1: tennis always a gladiator sport, now daily battle of attrition
Speaker 1: with huge impact on players time on court injuries, when
Speaker 1: everyone becomes an adule to win a point. We have
Speaker 1: a problem. She's talking about like counterpunching grind she or
Speaker 1: a he. It's Miller, Miller o Popolis. And it's a
Speaker 1: photo of a cat. A cat lady could be a
Speaker 1: cat lady, well, a cat and gentlemen, oh no, it's
Speaker 1: not a cat. It's a dog. My apologies. I wasn't
Speaker 1: zooming in.
Speaker 2: We don't know anything about you, Miller. Ye will answer
Speaker 2: your question.
Speaker 1: I will say I agree with you. And one of
Speaker 1: the things that I did say number of years ago
Speaker 1: was the next great tennis player, particularly on the men's side,
Speaker 1: and I would argue to say that this could be
Speaker 1: also the women's side has to be better at coming
Speaker 1: forward into the net and improve on the volleys and
Speaker 1: have a shot that's a little different. And you know,
Speaker 1: I got a bit of shit a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: ago shocker from Shocker fans about my comments about Carlos
Speaker 1: bringing the drop shot in right, and in my opinion,
Speaker 1: no one has used that shot more than him. Ever, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he is in response right in tennis, particularly off the
Speaker 1: forehand right. And then I got he didn't invent the
Speaker 1: drop shot. I'm like you, calm down, everybody. I know
Speaker 1: the drop shots. Guess what I used to play, and
Speaker 1: guess what I used to hit a drop shot. I
Speaker 1: know that the drop shot has existed in tennis. But
Speaker 1: his forehand drop shot is a shot we've never seen.
Speaker 2: It's incredibly well disguised. He hits it from anywhere, and
Speaker 2: he executes it flawlessly almost.
Speaker 1: All the time.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's insane, So it's truly a weapon.
Speaker 1: It's truly a weapon. And when you guys, guys standing
Speaker 1: one hundred feet behind the baseline, and some of these
Speaker 1: when as well like in egashion tech players that play
Speaker 1: way back. If you can implement a fourhand, particularly fourhand
Speaker 1: drop shot, a lot of the women do it off
Speaker 1: the back end. Donnovekich hits that drop shot so well.
Speaker 1: On I think on Zubur brought in the drop shot
Speaker 1: to women's tennis a lot more. And you know, it's
Speaker 1: all we could talk about. It's all people can talk about.
Speaker 1: So it's like, so my my point in telling you
Speaker 1: this is the next great player outside of the Sabalancas
Speaker 1: and all this, they will have an extra shot that
Speaker 1: go whoa finally, you know, and Mukhova, for example, is
Speaker 1: a true would talk about it. She's a true all
Speaker 1: court player and maybe one shot she can implement is
Speaker 1: the drop shot herself. But she has every shot in
Speaker 1: the book. So Fali's comes in, so.
Speaker 2: I actually think we're in the midst of seeing this happen.
Speaker 2: I think between a curlytos between Arena Sebleka. Everyone talks
Speaker 2: about how fast her groundstrokes are and how huge are
Speaker 2: fourhand is, but she moves forward, she hits great valley.
Speaker 2: She's won several slams in doubles. Like, to me, that
Speaker 2: is so exciting because it's not just power baseline tennis.
Speaker 1: It's really it's.
Speaker 2: Really varietive and creative and of it. And I think
Speaker 2: you're right. I'd love to see more of it. And
Speaker 2: Mukhova being healthy and making a strong showing this year
Speaker 2: I think shows a lot of people like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is we have a style of tennis we can get
Speaker 2: excited about that we haven't seen so much of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it brings back a little bit of ash
Speaker 1: Barty type that we loved to watch obviously. Okay, monkey Bread,
Speaker 1: I'd like to know how much during a match are
Speaker 1: players thinking, if I win this match, it's twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars more in prize money. How much do you
Speaker 1: think players think about things like this? I think it
Speaker 1: depends on player.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You've also written something else. I'm curious why the announcers
Speaker 1: never mentioned maybe this stuff. I cut the end of
Speaker 1: that question off, but I know there it is. I'm
Speaker 1: also curious why the announcers never mentioned prize money. Fritz
Speaker 1: Foux over Foe was an extra five hundred k I've
Speaker 1: heard them mention, Okay, so I can tell you this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we always mentioned that as announcers, the money. But you know,
Speaker 1: We don't want to get to caught in the weeds
Speaker 1: with that, because honestly, is not important. I will say
Speaker 1: as a player, when I got a little bit older
Speaker 1: and I knew that my time was running out of
Speaker 1: how big a check can I make as a tennis player?
Speaker 1: Because you know, arguably I'll never make checks like that
Speaker 1: ever again. You know, the potential of making a check
Speaker 1: for you know, a couple of hundred thousand dollars or
Speaker 1: something like that. It's podcast money, Yeah, it's podcast money.
Speaker 1: But so I started thinking about a little bit more
Speaker 1: at the end of my career, think is shit, if
Speaker 1: we won this tournaments, you know, one hundred and fifty thousand,
Speaker 1: like that's really great. But honestly, it's not really what
Speaker 1: motivates any tennis player. I think winning and losing is
Speaker 1: more important. Like winning is more important. And then you
Speaker 1: think about what it can bring for you ranking points wise,
Speaker 1: and then inevitably you're always thinking about money in a way,
Speaker 1: but you're not really on the court thinking, oh, this
Speaker 1: is worth another twenty thousand to me. I mean it
Speaker 1: might cross your mind.
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like Sloan Stephens sort of famously
Speaker 2: kind of owns that, Yeah, which I kind of really
Speaker 2: love about her. Yeah, Like I'm not sure she's thinking
Speaker 2: about it every match, but definitely she's like chit ching
Speaker 2: and maybe, like.
Speaker 1: I think, there are a lot of players that come
Speaker 1: from very poor backgrounds the lines evens coming from No,
Speaker 1: I think she comes from a middle class family. But
Speaker 1: but it's arguably you talking players from Ukraine, from Russia
Speaker 1: or from wherever they're poor.
Speaker 2: There's absolutely if you're getting into tournaments about its getting
Speaker 2: your teeth and there's a difference between you know, your
Speaker 2: entire year's earnings on the line.
Speaker 1: Like sure, yeah, I think you're right. It doesn't seem
Speaker 1: I mean when you're talking about it for a Sinner
Speaker 1: and Djokovic and you know, even Fritz and Foe and
Speaker 1: all these guys, they're not thinking, oh god, this is
Speaker 1: worth another hundred K to me. No, Okay, players Jpeg
Speaker 1: hits flat. That's a connotation for it, Jessica pol players
Speaker 1: who hit super flat or with a lot of spin.
Speaker 1: I Epergula who hits flat? Can she easily play with
Speaker 1: more shape if needed?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: Really, yes, she can, but that's not her game. The
Speaker 1: way she hits the ball and the way her sort
Speaker 1: of her wrist action is and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: She's not about to change that now. Now I know
Speaker 1: that there's times that she probably has put more spin
Speaker 1: on the ball, and can You can put more spin
Speaker 1: on the ball as a player, but it's not really
Speaker 1: your nature to go to and it's not natural for you.
Speaker 1: Then it becomes a bit harder. It's certainly something to
Speaker 1: work on because it can be the difference making against
Speaker 1: a certain player. You want to get the ball out
Speaker 1: of the hitting zone for example. For example, hitting spin
Speaker 1: against jask is a good idea. You want to try
Speaker 1: and get it above her shoulders because if you don't,
Speaker 1: you're in all sorts of trouble. Because she hits the
Speaker 1: ball so well, she's like a five foot version five
Speaker 1: foot four. I don't want to make it shorter than
Speaker 1: she is. She's I think six or five six, not
Speaker 1: five seven, maybe five six. Listen, she's not I'm not
Speaker 1: a sabalanca. She's not sabal ancha. I was going to
Speaker 1: compare her to her way she plays is like a
Speaker 1: five foot six or seven version of Lindsay Davenport. She's
Speaker 1: flattening and hard. It doesn't look like they're hitting the
Speaker 1: ball hard, but my god, the ball comes flying off
Speaker 1: her racket and it is really hard to control. Okay,
Speaker 1: Jay Miller again, if a second question is possible, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is, because I'm already READI it. Still having a
Speaker 1: really hard time seeing tennis with betting outfits as major
Speaker 1: tour sponsors, slippery slope players harassed by gamblers is unacceptable.
Speaker 1: Are the tours going to do anything on this or
Speaker 1: even give the players a percent of sponsorship? Well, great question.
Speaker 1: I always think that's funny too, because I remember a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago they did such a big investigation
Speaker 1: into players gam I know, are they throwing matches and
Speaker 1: are their players out there doing Yes, of course there
Speaker 1: are players doing it, but they're in the small, lower
Speaker 1: level tournaments like five thousands in Brazil. Those are the
Speaker 1: players that are tanking matches to make money. Need the
Speaker 1: money from the gambling syndicates. So if you want to
Speaker 1: bet on a fifty thousand or five thousand tournament or
Speaker 1: ten thousand k tournament in Brazil and your player doesn't win,
Speaker 1: suck on it, okay, because if you want to riding
Speaker 1: them on social media telling them you couldn't hold serve
Speaker 1: and why would you double fault this happens all the
Speaker 1: time to players, it happens, they get abused non stop,
Speaker 1: and they're all gamblers. So but the Australian Open, I
Speaker 1: remember they had a sponsorship of a gambling company on
Speaker 1: their you know, sponsorship behind the court and everything, and
Speaker 1: everyone was up in arms. How can you do that?
Speaker 1: You're doing an investigation and a gambling and tennis and
Speaker 1: you've got a gambling sponsorship. I'm like, and gambling has
Speaker 1: been a part of every single Grand Slam forever. They
Speaker 1: just don't promote it, but they're always been a part
Speaker 1: of it. And I have no problem with a gambling
Speaker 1: company sponsoring a tennis tournament or a sporting event because
Speaker 1: people gamble on sports. It's been happening in Australia for
Speaker 1: one hundred billion years, in the UK and Europe, and
Speaker 1: finally the US is finally like, oh we can make
Speaker 1: money on this. I mean, it's unbelievable to me that
Speaker 1: US has taken so long to have the Draft Kings
Speaker 1: and you know, ESPN, Bet and all these companies, because
Speaker 1: it happens all the time and it's a great It
Speaker 1: makes a lot of money. Now, if you want to
Speaker 1: be stupid enough to throw your money down on tennis events,
Speaker 1: and you apply losers if you feel the need to
Speaker 1: harass them, you're a fucking loser.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I do think what's your thought on this? Well,
Speaker 2: I sort of think of it from a platforming perspective,
Speaker 2: which is kind of similar to the Twitter conversation we
Speaker 2: had the other day where people are like, oh, do you.
Speaker 1: You know Twitter?
Speaker 2: And what do you think about And it's like, I
Speaker 2: don't think anything about Twitter. Twitter doesn't matter anymore. It
Speaker 2: doesn't send traffic to media people, it doesn't. It's not
Speaker 2: where the conversation is. It's a bunch of Reddit virgins.
Speaker 1: It's gross.
Speaker 2: And I think very similarly when you think about platforms,
Speaker 2: in no way, shape or form should any of the
Speaker 2: players be subjected to harass, right, and so what I'm
Speaker 2: told to die? Yeah, they're told way worse things than
Speaker 2: to die. So, without getting into but actually, Caroline Garcia's
Speaker 2: podcast Tennis Insider has had a number of conversations about
Speaker 2: this where players are very candid about talking about it.
Speaker 2: She herself, yeah, put stuff on their for a long time,
Speaker 2: but I really applaud her for kind of taking it
Speaker 2: on pretty regularly. So to me, it's a platform issue.
Speaker 2: If you are a draft Kings or a FanDuel member
Speaker 2: or executive and you see players or your betters being
Speaker 2: reported for harassment, kick them off the platform. Will they
Speaker 2: create another account under another name. Maybe, But the idea
Speaker 2: is that it's not platforming hate speech and the sooner
Speaker 2: you police that. If you're a platform, then you're a publisher.
Speaker 2: And that's a distinction that almost nobody is going to
Speaker 2: appreciate or get. But as a media person, if you're
Speaker 2: platforming people, meaning giving them the chance to speak, you
Speaker 2: are actually a publisher and you're bound by the laws
Speaker 2: of the land, which in this case indicate hate speech.
Speaker 2: And going after players with hate speech means not only
Speaker 2: are you liable, but also you need to be the deplatform.
Speaker 1: And anyone who writes to a player an abusive message
Speaker 1: and it's daily, I just think you really should get
Speaker 1: a life.
Speaker 2: And you know, well, they don't have life. This is
Speaker 2: their whole thing.
Speaker 1: So I would just say abuse, it's so bad. It's like,
Speaker 1: what is that going to do. It's not going to
Speaker 1: help you later on. And I hope anyone who writes
Speaker 1: an abusive tweet or a text or anything to anyone's
Speaker 1: Instagram or social I hope you lose every bit of
Speaker 1: your money, all of it. Well, they probably are good. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get to doctor Sook. It's a good name. Holgas
Speaker 1: started annoying but strong, now less annoying, but losing was
Speaker 1: his immature swagger, key to his game. He has three questions,
Speaker 1: so we'll answer that one first. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think that he's matured a little bit, and I think
Speaker 1: as we've noted mostly on this pod, and I said
Speaker 1: some controversial things about whole Garuno, but I actually like
Speaker 1: the kid a lot, and I think that time will tell.
Speaker 1: I think he's got a few technical flaws as well.
Speaker 1: The forehands a little bit funky. But I think he's
Speaker 1: going to be fine. He's going to mature. I think
Speaker 1: he's going to get better with age.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 1: He's a good all court player, and I think he's
Speaker 1: going to mature and get older. I think he had
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on his shoulders early on when
Speaker 1: he came out and had such great success.
Speaker 2: So well, he came up with curlyitos and I feel
Speaker 2: like the two of them were sort of hailed as
Speaker 2: action and when one of them takes off the other
Speaker 2: one doesn't to the same hates Yeah, becomes.
Speaker 1: A lot of pressure.
Speaker 2: Now. I found him really introspective and thoughtful in his
Speaker 2: the Netflix episode about him, and I thought, Oh, he's cocky,
Speaker 2: but in a way that's like sort of a little
Speaker 2: self aware.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it made me like him a lot more.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think when he goes and has Twitter rants
Speaker 1: with people that give him shit, I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: feel bad because he's like obviously is very sensitive.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like him anyway, and I do like it. I'm written
Speaker 1: for him. Okay, tiafa dump Wayne, but seems to have
Speaker 1: more problems bless with physical and technical game. Is he
Speaker 1: Is he too muscle bound? Same? Doctor Sook said that, No,
Speaker 1: he's definitely not too muscle bound. He sweats a lot.
Speaker 1: He ran out of gas against Taylor because arguably Taylor
Speaker 1: just has a little bit more firepower, particularly on the serve. Well,
Speaker 1: now Francis has a great serve. I just think he
Speaker 1: talked about being very nervous. He was very close to
Speaker 1: winning that match in four sets. Taylor was, you know,
Speaker 1: looking a bit down himself. But I give Taylor older
Speaker 1: credit for winning that match, And no, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think look Francis is always going to have these
Speaker 1: funky swings. I mean, self taught tennis player essentially, which
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest stories in tennis. He'll be fine,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Mukhova is great. But do Checks
Speaker 1: have mental wobble? What that is the third question from
Speaker 1: doctor Zok So enough from you, doctor Suk. No, she
Speaker 1: doesn't think. Yeah, the answer is no. I think. Look,
Speaker 1: I think that she definitely could be mentally a little
Speaker 1: bit stronger. I think she's starting to hopefully believe in herself.
Speaker 1: But this is a woman that just come back from
Speaker 1: a major, major, major.
Speaker 2: Risk surgery and has had two Grand Slam semifinals and
Speaker 2: a final year. I don't think the question is about
Speaker 2: the Checks. I mean I think if you want to
Speaker 2: look at the Checks, like are the Checks the most
Speaker 2: mentally strong people in the history of tennis? Maybe maybe
Speaker 2: listen between Lendell and Martina, like, come on, the tradition
Speaker 2: is strong. I think it's more a Mukova specific back. Well,
Speaker 2: it's also like this is how long this has been
Speaker 2: a dynasty, and they're really responsible I think for the
Speaker 2: generations that followed, right, So I think when I think
Speaker 2: of Check players, even at the level that I play.
Speaker 2: I play with a lot of check players. They're tough
Speaker 2: as nails. So I think it's a Mukova thing, which
Speaker 2: is I'm coming back from injury and I have a
Speaker 2: very high creative game, high creativity inspired game, which I
Speaker 2: think you can get a little bit lost in the.
Speaker 1: Saw sometimes about that. It was one fourhand volley away
Speaker 1: from being a set and three love up against Jess
Speaker 1: two breaks. I don't think she loses that match if
Speaker 1: she makes that volley. Well, she made the valley, she
Speaker 1: didn't pay away. No, no, she missed the volley. She didn't.
Speaker 1: She hit it right back to Jess, and Jess hit
Speaker 1: a passenger. She missed the toppy foehand into the net. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll have to go to the tap.
Speaker 2: My god, I was doing please, please just keep going.
Speaker 1: Okay, I was doing the match and I said, wow,
Speaker 1: she normally it actually went long. It went long.
Speaker 2: When I'm edicated this, it'll be really exciting for us.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull it up right now after the questions. Okay,
Speaker 1: So R. M. Jackson five like the name and he's
Speaker 1: a white guy. That's great. Why is Muhova so fun
Speaker 1: to watch? Does she have compact or long strokes? Is
Speaker 1: she a mix of old school Borg Macenroe and current techniques. Well,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a little bit of a confusing question,
Speaker 1: but I do appreciate it. RM Jackson five. She is
Speaker 1: fun to watch. I would say her strokes are very
Speaker 1: classic strokes. There's nothing about her strokes or her game
Speaker 1: that are really that flawed, and I think that's what
Speaker 1: makes us so fun to watch. I think the most
Speaker 1: thing that I love to watch is the fact that
Speaker 1: she serves and bollies. The fact that she comes into
Speaker 1: the net every opportunity she can, and on any short
Speaker 1: forehand she plays the right shot. She hits that forehand
Speaker 1: inside out, down the line and comes into the net
Speaker 1: and finishes it off with a volley, And I just
Speaker 1: absolutely love watching her play. Yes, so all right, let's
Speaker 1: get to b hd t TL wacky WTA. I think
Speaker 1: WTA should make round talking about the ball standard on
Speaker 1: all surfaces to reduce injuries. I go one serve only
Speaker 1: to reduce serve boddying. Like uts, it'll make WS games
Speaker 1: more watchable. What's wrong with women's tennis? I'm not even
Speaker 1: going to answer this question. Women's game more watchable? In
Speaker 1: my opinion, XD balls cause so many shoulder injuries. Blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, Okay, wacky WTA. I will say this, you
Speaker 1: can't have the same ball every week because balls and
Speaker 1: ball sponsors like Wilson and Penn and Technic Fiber and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah and Babelatt and all of them, they
Speaker 1: all make balls and they all want them to be
Speaker 1: used at a tournament, so they give the tournament money
Speaker 1: to use their balls. It's called promoting their ball. So
Speaker 1: of course a tournament is going to take a fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars from a Wilson or one hundred thousand from
Speaker 1: a Wilson to use their balls in the tournament. So
Speaker 1: that's why you don't have the same uniformity of a ball. Now,
Speaker 1: if you did, then the w T A, a TP
Speaker 1: should get together with a Wilson or a Pan or
Speaker 1: whoever and say this is our ball all the time.
Speaker 1: Does seem like a opportunity. It does, but it's not
Speaker 1: going to happen. So there you go. And yes, the
Speaker 1: reason they're using regular duty at the US Open is
Speaker 1: because it does cause problems for the player, especially the
Speaker 1: women with their wrists, with their elbows, and their shoulders.
Speaker 1: So that's why they went back to regular duty. And
Speaker 1: that's it. And I don't appreciate b h dtl's little
Speaker 1: slant on women's tennis. You should think about men's tennis
Speaker 1: a little bit more being unwatchable, I think so. I
Speaker 1: know you're a fan, but that just bothers me. He
Speaker 1: has another question. Should Goff have parted ways with Gilbert?
Speaker 1: Who do you think as coach? We've already okay, right
Speaker 1: a kana, Yeah, these are all being answered. Why is okay,
Speaker 1: it's maybe someday who we love? Why isn't there a
Speaker 1: Slam for South America? Yeah, Caitlin, thank you, agreed. Let's
Speaker 1: she wants to take the Australian Open and put in
Speaker 1: South America. So we are done with this question. Not necessarily.
Speaker 1: I think I could have a major, not a major, tonment,
Speaker 1: not a major like a Grand Slam, but that'sn't a
Speaker 1: big tournament down.
Speaker 2: I think we can well, we can do literally anything
Speaker 2: we want.
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, one hundred years ago this was.
Speaker 2: A globe ruled by kingdoms and you know blood no.
Speaker 2: But my point is nothing matters. The world can change.
Speaker 2: Nobody could have a Slam in October until the French
Speaker 2: Open did it like anything can happen. The Australian Open
Speaker 2: wasn't really a major until it was the Open major.
Speaker 1: It has not.
Speaker 2: Was it a bigger deal than the Canadian Open or
Speaker 2: the Italian Open. No. Up until a certain time it wasn't.
Speaker 2: So my point is why not at a fifth Slam?
Speaker 1: But it wasn't always a major?
Speaker 2: Sure, But my point here is you can do whatever
Speaker 2: we want with the calendar. What I would love to
Speaker 2: see is the tours consolidate, decide which thousands mattered most,
Speaker 2: and then let's change the definition of a Slam so
Speaker 2: that it becomes, you know, as prestigious because the Southern hemisphere.
Speaker 2: This this, by the way, is my way of appeasing
Speaker 2: you and not taking away the Australian Open. But instead
Speaker 2: let's add a fit Slam. Maybe it's in Argentina, a
Speaker 2: very strong tennis playing country.
Speaker 1: You cannot add another.
Speaker 2: You can do anything, You can do anything, you just
Speaker 2: want to South America, Argentina.
Speaker 1: Everybody does. What can club torontosaurus flex? Who we love?
Speaker 1: What can club doubles players do more? Poach to win? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Move the net more? Yeah, move the net more? Or
Speaker 1: if the net player is stinking it up. Just keep
Speaker 1: hitting it at them over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: Nowadays, I play a lot of club level doubles.
Speaker 1: It's called two against one.
Speaker 2: The difference between the college players like me and the
Speaker 2: players who are good but did not play college doubles
Speaker 2: is they don't poach. Yeah, poach, They just stand there.
Speaker 2: They just stand there and wait for you. Ye.
Speaker 1: Look overall, we appreciate you writing us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are great. I like getting questions from the audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah you do, I do? I know you do you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do too. That's why I put the tweet out. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we're going into Beijing starting. My interest level is two percent.
Speaker 1: I mean, I shouldn't say that I will watch more
Speaker 1: of Beijing. I did not watch any hardly anything of
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. I didn't barely watch Labor Cup.
Speaker 1: I was more interested in the WNBA postseason and the
Speaker 1: Solheim Cup and a lot of other women's sports. But
Speaker 1: I will get back into the tennis now that Beijing
Speaker 1: is starting. But it's just I don't know, just something
Speaker 1: about I mean, Serena used to shut down after the
Speaker 1: US Open, literally did not play after the US Open
Speaker 1: for many many years, and you know she could afford
Speaker 1: to pay the fine. She didn't play the WTA finals.
Speaker 1: I wasn't okay with that. I wish she had done that,
Speaker 1: just because it's our biggest tournament WT Finals. But those
Speaker 1: are going to be in Jedda this year in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: So your thoughts on that, because you might.
Speaker 2: Go, I'm I'm taking the Billygian King line.
Speaker 1: Can't change it unless you're there. Yeah, and you really
Speaker 1: think that's gonna happen? Yeah, okay, yeah I do.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm let's keep in mind my background is in politics. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't believe systems are immutable, and I also think,
Speaker 2: you know, we live in a world where all of
Speaker 2: a sudden we can decide the borders of country is
Speaker 2: changing overnight. So yeah, I mean, am I incredibly optimistic
Speaker 2: as a gay person, as a lum of the Washington Post. No,
Speaker 2: there's there's some reservations I have, and I'm certainly not
Speaker 2: going to use this platform to defend. But i will say, like,
Speaker 2: if you.
Speaker 1: Go to Saudi Raybe, you're not taking Claire, and I
Speaker 1: certainly not. That's said.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm I'm curious and I believe in like, okay,
Speaker 2: let's do some let's do some engagement here. You know,
Speaker 2: I think if the tour went back to China post
Speaker 2: punk SHUEI, and it shouldn't always be on the women,
Speaker 2: by the way to lead the charge.
Speaker 1: The men have decided. Oh, the men have been going
Speaker 1: there forever forever.
Speaker 2: So for me, like my my general approach at this
Speaker 2: point is let's say, let's let's have a conversation and.
Speaker 1: Let's finish this pod off. You had a great article
Speaker 1: in the New York Times.
Speaker 2: What a fun article in the New York Times. Yeah,
Speaker 2: after a tumult a transformation at rack of magazine was
Speaker 2: the headline. And you know, having a business for almost
Speaker 2: a decade that we've been trying to you know, illuminate
Speaker 2: the stories, grow, do all this stuff. You know, sometimes
Speaker 2: you need to make some changes. And I think what
Speaker 2: I was most excited about is the fact that in
Speaker 2: the New York Times we had a chance to sort
Speaker 2: of talk about all the amazing things that this last
Speaker 2: year has brought, especially you know, making the magazine is amazing.
Speaker 2: Turning it from a sort of you know, hobbyist kind
Speaker 2: of setup where it wasn't paying for itself to something profitable.
Speaker 2: This year has been a tremendous effort with the best,
Speaker 2: most amazing writers, creators, editors.
Speaker 1: Et cetera. Yeah, I liked the last line in the
Speaker 1: article where it's it do you remember it?
Speaker 2: I do, but I'll let you know you say it.
Speaker 2: It will be profitable for the first time. And I
Speaker 2: think for me really this year, and I think for
Speaker 2: me not coincidentally, bringing on an all team of women,
Speaker 2: having the larger footprint where we get to do amazing
Speaker 2: things with brands and with events and with collabs. You know,
Speaker 2: for me, I think this is just a very modern
Speaker 2: way of doing media. Does it mean I'm going to
Speaker 2: be right all the time or make a thousand percent
Speaker 2: of my you know bets correctly? No, But I'm ambitious,
Speaker 2: and you know how society feels about ambitious women, which
Speaker 2: is I think speaks to a love of them, a
Speaker 2: little bit of the grist for the mill. So for me,
Speaker 2: the fact that we got to talk about all the
Speaker 2: amazing stuff we've done, including but not limited to trying
Speaker 2: to take over our first club space here in New York,
Speaker 2: which would have us running a tennis court.
Speaker 1: Will it happen? I don't know quick. Do I get
Speaker 1: priority on the court, you get free membership?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Okay? Well on that note, this great that the end
Speaker 1: story is if you want to do a company, just
Speaker 1: have all women run. All right, guys, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3: See you next week.
Speaker 2: H