Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Renee Stubs Tennis podcast.
Speaker 1: I am Renee Stubs and I am joined by the
Speaker 1: ever present in my life in New York, Caitlin Thompson Present.
Speaker 1: What's up, mate? We've lost petgo again. She's in Germany.
Speaker 1: She was working the.
Speaker 2: Labor Cup, hosting a gala.
Speaker 1: Hosting a gala. She wrote a great substack on that,
Speaker 1: being nervous and all that sort of stuff. But she's
Speaker 1: our girl and we are missing her, but she shall
Speaker 1: be back. You asked me before we sat down and
Speaker 1: started looking at things to talk about. Do we have
Speaker 1: to talk about the Labor Cup? I want to talk
Speaker 1: about the Labor Cup, okay, because I want to know
Speaker 1: if you gave up a living, breathing, dead breath about
Speaker 1: watching Labor Cup. No, did you watch any of the
Speaker 1: Labor Cup?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Not that did I not one. I think I flipped
Speaker 1: over like a couple of times when I was watching
Speaker 1: something else on TV and I was like, oh, the
Speaker 1: Labor Cups on a one who's playing? And then I'd
Speaker 1: flick it over and I'd be like, I don't care.
Speaker 2: I don't hate exhibitions. I'm not mad at exhibition matches.
Speaker 2: I don't have like a B and my bonnet about like, well,
Speaker 2: if it's not for points, it doesn't county. I don't
Speaker 2: really care about that. I like uts. I think it's
Speaker 2: kind of innovative, and I like the fact that it's
Speaker 2: like a little silly, you know. I love the fact
Speaker 2: that sometimes in the middle of no tennis we get
Speaker 2: an exhibition here and there and random places preseason. But yeah,
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, the Labor Cup has just never done
Speaker 2: it for me. It just feels so contrived.
Speaker 1: It's so.
Speaker 2: Cheesey, like the branding is cheesy, it's so try hard
Speaker 2: in a way that I just like, I'm sure the
Speaker 2: tennis is good, and I like a lot of the players,
Speaker 2: no disrespect whatsoever, get paid, get your bag, whatever. It's
Speaker 2: just the whole thing feels like a man marketer from
Speaker 2: the eighties. He is trying to convince you that, like
Speaker 2: this isould be.
Speaker 1: Interested in this, and I just can't. Well, they tried
Speaker 1: to obviously do it, right, a cup style tennis for tennis, right,
Speaker 1: That's that was the premise behind it, And the premise
Speaker 1: behind it was you know, Ryder Cup is so popular.
Speaker 2: Which is a golf competition where half if the teams
Speaker 2: are from the women.
Speaker 1: Just played the Solheim Cup, which got great crowds. It
Speaker 1: was great fun. I watched it considerably over that the
Speaker 1: weekend and the days that it was being played. I
Speaker 1: know people are probably out there going lament the golf,
Speaker 1: but it's like, no, it was actually really entertaining, really entertaining.
Speaker 1: It comes down to the wire often Ryder Cups and
Speaker 1: Solheim Cups, and they have like different like ways in
Speaker 1: the days that they play the Solheim and Ryder Club
Speaker 1: where they do see I told you I was going
Speaker 1: to get a cough today where they do a four
Speaker 1: ball best ball, And for those of you who don't
Speaker 1: know golf, it's just like it's basically different ways to
Speaker 1: play at the team events where they support each other. Right,
Speaker 1: one hits an alternate ball, so you hit the drive
Speaker 1: and then and then my partner hits the Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: but with teammates. And then the next day it's best ball,
Speaker 1: meaning you both hit off, you both score the hole,
Speaker 1: and whoever's scores the best on that hole wins the hole.
Speaker 2: Right pick the higher scoring between the two teams. So
Speaker 2: that's cool.
Speaker 1: It's always very like.
Speaker 2: I like innovation in sports.
Speaker 1: I like and that's what it is.
Speaker 2: I like team sports. I like a lot of it.
Speaker 1: And then on the last day to finish off my
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup Soul home thing. On the last day, it's
Speaker 1: one on one, right, So you've gone as a team
Speaker 1: back and forth for three days and then the last
Speaker 1: day it's one on one.
Speaker 2: And who every side counts? Who picks like the best
Speaker 2: player from each team.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's a scoring system to get into the team.
Speaker 1: And then you get a couple of wild card picks
Speaker 1: from the captain.
Speaker 2: So the captain is involved the big choices big time.
Speaker 1: They picked the team, They picked the players, and the
Speaker 1: players are desperate to be on the teams. Like I'm
Speaker 1: talking desperate. It is like you talk to a golfer,
Speaker 1: they'll say one of my you know, the late great
Speaker 1: Pain Stewart, who I was friends with because we lived
Speaker 1: in the same area in Orlando. And one of the
Speaker 1: last conversations I had with Paine was he said, I
Speaker 1: want to win one more major, Stubsy, and I love
Speaker 1: to make the Ryder Cup team again, Like it's so
Speaker 1: important for these golfers. So we need to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to make something very similar in tennis and
Speaker 1: I did tweet out. I think I retweeted a video
Speaker 1: that Nelly call a quarter put out in the first
Speaker 1: hole where the you know, people were going crazy and
Speaker 1: there was music played and it was such a fun atmosphere,
Speaker 1: Like we need this in tennis. Well, meaning not every year.
Speaker 1: We can't have Labor Cup. We talked about this last week,
Speaker 1: Labor Cup, United Cup, Hopman Cup, Blah Blah Cup, a
Speaker 1: Billy Olympian Cup. It's like it's too much in one year,
Speaker 1: particularly during the Olympic years.
Speaker 2: Well, when you were talking about how excited people were
Speaker 2: to make the team, I mean that sounds like the
Speaker 2: Olympics to me, which is like, you know, Daniel Collins
Speaker 2: famously was like, I want to make the Olympics. I'm
Speaker 2: going to need to play X amount of tournament to
Speaker 2: do that between March and you know whatever. The cut
Speaker 2: off date was early summer and right, and like going
Speaker 2: to be on the Olympic team and getting the blazer
Speaker 2: and doing the whole thing is cool, and so you know,
Speaker 2: I don't in any way want to slag the idea
Speaker 2: that we have. You know, old Guard, it was cool.
Speaker 2: I saw some of the photos from Labor Cup. It
Speaker 2: was cool. Seeingianik Noah, who's you know, obviously one of
Speaker 2: my favorite people, which is why I chose to put
Speaker 2: him on the cover of the first issue. You know, Like,
Speaker 2: but I will say the the I don't know. I
Speaker 2: just I can't get that excited about it for reasons
Speaker 2: that it feels like such a simulate crom of of
Speaker 2: a man's marketing fantasy that I just feel like I'm
Speaker 2: being sold a product that I don't want. It feels like,
Speaker 2: you know, Ron Popeel's Pocket Fishermen. It's like, who's this for?
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want this.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, we talked about this last
Speaker 1: week about and some people liked my idea, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's a former Sam Stoza Playout Friend Play Eye coach
Speaker 1: player applied with that said, oh, I never thought about
Speaker 1: the idea of like shutting the season down after the
Speaker 1: US Open and maybe having some of these team events
Speaker 1: where they really become important. Right, you could have a
Speaker 1: mixed event after yeah, the US Open, I would I
Speaker 1: would argue to say, you know, a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 1: you have a massive team event in X you know,
Speaker 1: and then you have a teams event where you combine
Speaker 1: men and women in x whether it be South America
Speaker 1: or you know, places that don't South Africa, Like, let's
Speaker 1: take it to places on the road that don't get
Speaker 1: to have the tour, you know. And if China wants
Speaker 1: to put a shipload of money into tennis, as they.
Speaker 2: Do, and now they have great players with four men,
Speaker 2: have a huge tournament, a deep run this very week,
Speaker 2: can you imagine.
Speaker 1: China against like Australia and asked in a true World
Speaker 1: Cup and I would argue as to say, as much
Speaker 1: as you know how much we both love Billy Jean King,
Speaker 1: have a team's tennis style way to do it and
Speaker 1: the excitement in that playing to six is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Well true the World team from the seventies, eighties and
Speaker 2: nineties World Team Tennis. Yeah, I agree completely, and I think,
Speaker 2: you know, in addition to these season changes, I think uh, shortening, condensing, consolidating. Yeah, like,
Speaker 2: let's make room for this the unique thing that tennis
Speaker 2: has done uniquely for almost a century. I don't know
Speaker 2: when the first mixed event was held, but like mixed
Speaker 2: doubles where men and women play on the same field.
Speaker 1: At the same time, World Team tennis.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, but it predated World Team Tennis.
Speaker 1: Well, we have a mixed DOUBLET grant.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Like that alone was innovation in
Speaker 2: and of itself that other sports have only really cottoned
Speaker 2: on too in the last five or so years. Now
Speaker 2: you have an Olympic relay in swimming, you have an
Speaker 2: Olympic really in skiing, like everyone realizes like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: really fun when we get everybody involved. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: Labor Cup. I'm not trying to shut on it. It sounded
Speaker 2: like the Gala. I'm sure because Andrea I hosted. It
Speaker 2: was funny, it was cool to see you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but wouldn't it be great if you had Teblinka
Speaker 1: in that.
Speaker 2: Were to Well that's the album with the Labor Cups.
Speaker 2: For me, it's like, well, yeah, so just a bunch
Speaker 2: of dudes, also the types of dudes.
Speaker 1: That nobody loves Rod Labor more than me. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's the greatest guy in the history of the world.
Speaker 1: He's the nicest man you'll ever meet in your life.
Speaker 1: So it's certainly not a slide. I mean, and listen,
Speaker 1: I I understand why they decided to do I understand
Speaker 1: why Roger thought this is you know, and teammate thought
Speaker 1: this is a Tennis Australia because those that own it,
Speaker 1: those are the people that I know Tennis Australia, and
Speaker 1: teammate funded pretty USDA as well. So the Grand Slams
Speaker 1: had a huge part in this Labor Cup. So guys,
Speaker 1: why not get together and have a world true World
Speaker 1: Cup and really get your money?
Speaker 2: Well, I think you just said way because it involves
Speaker 2: everyone getting together.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a concept we don't understanding.
Speaker 2: Something tennis has yet to grapple with. The if the
Speaker 2: USTs well, that was another thing Australia. So everybody would
Speaker 2: have to play nicely, which we are all waiting for
Speaker 2: you guys to do. Imagine how great this board is
Speaker 2: when we're all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so listen. Another thing to also consider in this
Speaker 1: conversation is what are the lesser players going to do?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Because obviously not everyone's going to make the World Cup
Speaker 1: teams right for Australia, for US or for China, et cetera. Right,
Speaker 1: So what are you going to do with the player
Speaker 1: that's ranked one hundred and fifty to two hundred in
Speaker 1: the world or three hundred in the world or even
Speaker 1: eighty in the world. That's not going to make their
Speaker 1: You know, the Czech Republic could fit seventeen players into
Speaker 1: like top twenty. You know, they could have two teams,
Speaker 1: so you have the smaller tournament. Still you still have
Speaker 1: the one twenty five's maybe two fifties. The WTA and
Speaker 1: ATP get together and try and fit the schedule around
Speaker 1: for the lesser players to play. I shouldn't say lesser players,
Speaker 1: but lower ranked players to play. So you do need
Speaker 1: to have viability for those players to move up in
Speaker 1: the rankings. And then you know people are going to say, well,
Speaker 1: then the top players that are playing these team events
Speaker 1: are not going to get points, right, so they can
Speaker 1: move up and down the ladder. Well, you consider giving
Speaker 1: bonus points for matches one or lost at these events,
Speaker 1: or you figure out a way that the top players
Speaker 1: aren't penalized with points and rankings. Maybe you freeze it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but there's certainly some I just think
Speaker 1: that there's after the I don't give a shit what's
Speaker 1: happening right now.
Speaker 2: Oh I care a lot. I just don't care about
Speaker 2: the layer coat. I watched Korea okay partially because racket.
Speaker 2: I launched a Korean footprint there, you know, but a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't know. Like we showed up hard
Speaker 2: in Korea. We're going to be had to go amazing.
Speaker 2: You brought a ton of tennis newbies who have been
Speaker 2: playing tennis in the basements of malls, which is how
Speaker 2: a lot of Korean young people play sports because spaces
Speaker 2: at a premium and there's a lot of development in
Speaker 2: the city. And we brought them to a pro tennis
Speaker 2: tournament for the first time in partnership with the WTA,
Speaker 2: in partnership with the original beer company, which was like
Speaker 2: the hipster beer, and we made all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: like a big party happened between the grassroots tennis recreational
Speaker 2: players and the pro game, which we want to see
Speaker 2: more of. Like so obviously I watched that. I watched
Speaker 2: Kazakia hadad Maaya that was a great final. I watched
Speaker 2: Emirati Kan who have a couple of top ten or
Speaker 2: top fifty wins which she hasn't.
Speaker 1: Had in a while and now has pulled out a Beijing.
Speaker 2: And now she's pulled out of Beijing because she's hurt again.
Speaker 2: But like I want to watch tennis in all places
Speaker 2: throughout the year. I agree, the season is too long
Speaker 2: and somebody's got to give way, But I'm I care.
Speaker 2: I watched Jijiang and the young up and coming Chinese
Speaker 2: player whose name is escaping me at the moment, who
Speaker 2: are about to play a final I think in hung
Speaker 2: Joe like, I'm into it, and so for me, I
Speaker 2: don't care necessarily where the tennis is taking place. I
Speaker 2: like the fact that it's real, they care about it,
Speaker 2: and for a lot of these players, it's their home soil.
Speaker 2: It's where they get to shine, especially as the sport diversifies.
Speaker 2: So now they haven't met.
Speaker 1: I haven't played that final yet, and it's Jiang and
Speaker 1: Chilich playing a final inhung Zho. They are in the final,
Speaker 1: those two, so we'll know at some point.
Speaker 2: So Juju Young just is cool. He is triple Z TRIPLESZ, TRIPLEZ.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think. You know, we've talked about scheduling
Speaker 2: at nauseum. Something's got to give. I don't think necessarily
Speaker 2: Asia should lose its time. It's time, just maybe not
Speaker 2: this time on the calendar. We need to figure out
Speaker 2: a way to make it a little bit more conducive
Speaker 2: to you know, when people are playing, when the weather
Speaker 2: is cooperated, cooperating, and when it's tough with I know,
Speaker 2: and when we can you know, reasonably expect these players
Speaker 2: to keep their bodies in one piece.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's that's another part of the issue. Right,
Speaker 1: You've got players pulling out left and right, You've got
Speaker 1: you know, igaon Tech has decided that she's just shutting
Speaker 1: it down. By the looks of it.
Speaker 2: Seems like a Bakina shut it down.
Speaker 1: A whole different story.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, we think, but she's saying no. But she's
Speaker 2: saying her back is the issue. She hasn't publicly said
Speaker 2: what it is if it's not an injury. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's not not her back, but I also, you know,
Speaker 2: by her own what she's.
Speaker 1: Kind of injuries is saying listen, that she's got to
Speaker 1: You'd have to be a dummy not to know. There's
Speaker 1: a lot more going on there for sure. And I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a player that I'm written for.
Speaker 2: This girl.
Speaker 1: We all are, by the way. This is you know,
Speaker 1: a player that arguably at her best, is the best
Speaker 1: player in the world. Yeah, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you remember her dismantling Saber Lenka at the start
Speaker 1: of the year in Brisbane, where she made Sabilenka literally
Speaker 1: look like she could not play tennis on her best surface.
Speaker 1: Two weeks later went and won the Austraian Open. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: well three weeks later technically, but what did she do
Speaker 1: after winning Brisbane? Rebeckn I mean pet Coo and I
Speaker 1: talked about this, because we're so on her about this.
Speaker 2: She went and played Adelaide.
Speaker 1: What in the WTF are you going to play Adelaide for?
Speaker 2: What WTA?
Speaker 1: What the WTF are doing going and playing Adelaide prior
Speaker 1: to the Austrain Open when you just won Brisbane? And
Speaker 1: then she went into the Austrain Open and had a
Speaker 1: little bit of an injury and then lost that epic
Speaker 1: tie break to Blinkover and really after that also had
Speaker 1: a couple of great tournaments and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden this obviously something going on with the coach. He
Speaker 1: has disappeared as well from the tour, and his word
Speaker 1: is that he's been banned from the tour. So there's
Speaker 1: just something going on there that we clearly don't know
Speaker 1: first hand knowledge of, but it's pretty bloody obvious.
Speaker 2: That she is obviously okay, and I hope she's being
Speaker 2: taken care of behind the scenes and you know.
Speaker 1: But also with Eger, it's interesting that she's decided to
Speaker 1: pull out too, so there's obviously something going on with
Speaker 1: her as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's, to her great credit, she has been
Speaker 2: putting your money where her mouth is and sort of
Speaker 2: saying like, hey, this is really hard on our bodies.
Speaker 2: It's hard on our sleep cycles, it's hard on our
Speaker 2: mental states, you know. And I really respect that about
Speaker 2: a player, especially one who is the number one player
Speaker 2: in the world, using their platform to sort of you know,
Speaker 2: she's not complaining, she's constructively sort of saying like, hey,
Speaker 2: this is another way that this could be better. What
Speaker 2: if we made the season show like you know, And
Speaker 2: I think I respect that tremendously because I think these players,
Speaker 2: especially as they get higher in the ranks and they
Speaker 2: stay there and they get interviewed a and they get
Speaker 2: the chance to use their platforms to make change and
Speaker 2: eventually become part of the you know, player councils or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. You know, they're they're actually using it
Speaker 2: to advocate.
Speaker 1: And we do have to congratulate Eager because she passed
Speaker 1: and became the number one in the world for a
Speaker 1: certain amount of weeks, where she became one of the
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find that. I did take a screenshot
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, she passed as passed number of week
Speaker 1: is spending her one hundred and twenty second career week
Speaker 1: at number one this week, passing Ash Barty for standalone
Speaker 1: seventh most weeks at number one in the w TA
Speaker 1: ranking history. That's impressive. She follows Graf Navradlova, Serena Evatt, Hingus,
Speaker 1: and sell Us Allus. So that is a certainly a group.
Speaker 2: Can we just talk about Monca for a second?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: We published in this last issue of the magazine a
Speaker 2: very glowing remembrance of Monica Sellis pre worst day of
Speaker 2: her life and pre the time that ended up being
Speaker 2: what I think defined a lot of her life and career.
Speaker 2: And it was such a fun story because it reminded
Speaker 2: people that she was not just crushing everyone on court,
Speaker 2: winning you know, something like seven out of eight slams
Speaker 2: terror for the three year period. Right there, you were
Speaker 2: right there. But also like she was bubbly, she was funny,
Speaker 2: she was into Madonna, she was on lead shows, like
Speaker 2: she was well, she.
Speaker 1: Was okay, time out here. I would say Monica was
Speaker 1: the shyest arguably maybe second to maybe No. I think
Speaker 1: she more shy than Stepfi even and both of them. Sure,
Speaker 1: it was interesting because they were both very similar like
Speaker 1: did not like the spotlight, did not like media attention.
Speaker 1: Monica used to wear a wig when she was younger
Speaker 1: to go out in public. I love that because she
Speaker 1: did not want to be recognized and she was very
Speaker 1: paranoid about being out in public. Well, there was a
Speaker 1: versionage she did that and went on to those TV shows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so did. I think. I believe Steffie did as well
Speaker 1: in the top plays you get on those shows at
Speaker 1: the US Open.
Speaker 2: My point is we saw a bubbly version of her
Speaker 2: that was innocent, fun loving, and maybe, yes, she was
Speaker 2: shy for most of it, but I think.
Speaker 1: She was always a little paranoid about stuff.
Speaker 2: Maybe, But I guess the point that I'm trying to
Speaker 2: make by the wooden woman who interviewed her forty times
Speaker 2: is that let's remember that that was part of her
Speaker 2: legacy as well. Let's remember that she was.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anyone else walk out under rolling girls,
Speaker 1: throwing roses, love the crowd, love it. I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I love it was it her?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was her. I was thinking it was Hingus. No, No,
Speaker 1: it was her. Hingus would never Hina was throwing a
Speaker 1: racket into the crash. Can we actually, while I'm talking
Speaker 1: about throwing rackets in the crowd, can we talk about
Speaker 1: Meddi speaking of going back, backing it up, backing it
Speaker 1: up to labor cup. What the living f was he
Speaker 1: doing throwing that racket that went into the It didn't
Speaker 1: go into the crowd because there was like this gap
Speaker 1: between the court and the actual audience, and so for
Speaker 1: him to throw it in the crowd, he'd have to
Speaker 1: really throw it higher or bounce it a lot harder.
Speaker 1: But it went near a couple of the crew and
Speaker 1: a couple of people sitting around the court. I think
Speaker 1: that the WTA and ATP to them need to make
Speaker 1: a blanket rule. If you throw your racket and it
Speaker 1: leaves the court, no matter what, you are defaulted, because
Speaker 1: now the rule is if it doesn't hit anybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, so if I move, if I'm sitting
Speaker 1: in that crowd and I moved my head just a
Speaker 1: little bit to the left and it just misses me, oh,
Speaker 1: that's okay. The same thing happened at Wimbledon. Would sit
Speaker 1: the pass when he piffed a ball and it went
Speaker 1: into the crowd on court one and it almost hit
Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I don't know it hidn't
Speaker 1: hit him hard enough or somebody caught. I mean I
Speaker 1: remember a referee saying to me, and this is a
Speaker 1: true story in Washington, DC. I think it sits a pass.
Speaker 1: Actually he ripped a ball up into the crowd, and
Speaker 1: usually we're trying to hit it out of the crowd,
Speaker 1: so it doesn't quote unquote hit someone, right, because you know,
Speaker 1: if you get it over the crowd, if it does
Speaker 1: hit someone, no one sees it, okay, because no one
Speaker 1: was watching it. A guy caught the ball, caught it
Speaker 1: in his hand, and the referee was sitting next to me,
Speaker 1: and I go ah, and this is what I'm telling you.
Speaker 1: He didn't even get a warning.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting.
Speaker 1: And I looked at this particular referee and I go ah,
Speaker 1: what and he goes, well, it didn't hit anyway, he
Speaker 1: caught it. I go, oh, so that's okay, Yeah, what
Speaker 1: are we doing here?
Speaker 2: I think a very clear designation is in court out
Speaker 2: of court if you yeah, a good point.
Speaker 1: I mean, and listen, I was the worst, Okay. I
Speaker 1: was not a patron saint of humility and happiness on
Speaker 1: the court. I mean, renee got a little bit ungray.
Speaker 1: So this is coming from somebody who did have a
Speaker 1: short fuse on the tennis court. But I didn't do
Speaker 1: that shit, Like I just berated myself half the time
Speaker 1: or an umpire or you know, lines person.
Speaker 2: But I think throwing your stuff around is childish. It's
Speaker 2: a bad look. It's your profession. I understand that people
Speaker 2: get upset, but yeah, Like I think the easy rule
Speaker 2: is anything that leaves your hand, that leaves the court,
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 1: That's it. Boom.
Speaker 2: We can add on to things like, oh, if you
Speaker 2: throw your racket and it hits somebody on the court,
Speaker 2: like a ball kit or something like that, But I
Speaker 2: think the blanket rule is don't throw anything that is
Speaker 2: leaving the field of play. Yea. Otherwise yeah, yeah, you're done.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Can you imagine it's just like, yeah, well they
Speaker 1: just moved the head, so it's fine. Oh so you're
Speaker 1: gonna wape for a racket actually hit someone in the
Speaker 1: middle of the forehead and like cut their skin.
Speaker 2: Well, this is the whole thing with Djokovic where everyone
Speaker 2: was like, but it didn't hit him. It's like, but
Speaker 2: he's been throwing no, no, no, no, not the umpire
Speaker 2: who he did hit with the ball, but he chucked
Speaker 2: a racket and oh yes, it nearly hit the umpire
Speaker 2: and they were like ha ha ha, but it didn't
Speaker 2: and it was like such a joke. It was taken
Speaker 2: not seriously at all by anybody. And it's like no
Speaker 2: because this one fleet footed linesman like jumped out of
Speaker 2: the way. Yeah, like is that going to be the standard? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like you've seen some of the lines of people at
Speaker 2: these tournaments. I mean obviously lines people are generally going away,
Speaker 2: but like there's lots of people on the court. There's
Speaker 2: security people, there's spall kids, there's are we all supposed
Speaker 2: to like make them fly, you know, watch out for
Speaker 2: flying objects that could potentially hurt them. Yeah, while they're
Speaker 2: trying to do their jobs. This is a workplace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's we need to we need to crack down
Speaker 1: on that stuff. I love that.
Speaker 2: I like when we get like scolding and moralized.
Speaker 1: Yes, especially me, who's such a cycle on the court.
Speaker 1: I love it. I know that you're a little depressed
Speaker 1: coming in here today because it's fall. Oh my god, see,
Speaker 1: I know you so well. I walked out of my
Speaker 1: apartment today and it was cold, and I went, oh,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, Caitlin's gonna hate. It's gonna hate today.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to I'm trying to practice manifestation of positivity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to become a fall person. All right, Great
Speaker 2: now because also I'm going to port a Fino in
Speaker 2: two weeks, so I don't have to wait.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to port Afino in two weeks to
Speaker 2: do a big project for Racket. We're going to do
Speaker 2: a giant.
Speaker 1: Couldn't you have done that around the Billy Jean Kinkop
Speaker 1: so I could come.
Speaker 2: There's a chance that we made us to be doing
Speaker 2: a project in Spain. Let's see.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, you can let me know when we're not
Speaker 1: doing this podcast.
Speaker 2: But I hopefully it'll also be warm and coastal Italy.
Speaker 1: I know everyone wants to hit tennis stuff, but I
Speaker 1: just want to update everyone on the fact that the
Speaker 1: New York Liberty won. They're opening a playoff game yesterday
Speaker 1: and I am a huge WNBA fan. I freaking love
Speaker 1: watching women's basketball, and I'll tell you why. As a
Speaker 1: tennis player. Yes, I think tennis is arguably the hardest
Speaker 1: sport in the world to play, just physically mentally. I
Speaker 1: mean it matches out matches in Asia this last week
Speaker 1: in the women's matches, they were going over four hours, brutal.
Speaker 2: And also it was like one hundred percent of humanity
Speaker 2: and exprutal.
Speaker 1: Sigamund just leves playing over four hours, and cats Akina
Speaker 1: and all these guys. But you know, I watched the
Speaker 1: physicality of women's basketball basketball in general, but women's basketball.
Speaker 1: You know why they wear sleeves because they get cut
Speaker 1: all the time with their nails and people banging. Notice
Speaker 1: how basketball players wear.
Speaker 2: Sleep I thought that was for like muscle.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's to stop them from bleeding literally because
Speaker 1: they get cut. Because even if you have short nails
Speaker 1: and you you know, your hand comes down. The bruising
Speaker 1: on w NBA players just look at their arms when
Speaker 1: they go and play. They're bruised out the wazoo because
Speaker 1: they're getting beat up like hell under it. So for
Speaker 1: you guys not watching, turn on ESPN because ESPN has
Speaker 1: all the playoffs and the games yesterday were great. And
Speaker 1: your son and your wife Claire went to the game.
Speaker 2: They did thanks to you.
Speaker 1: Never seen Peter your son looking more excited ever. So
Speaker 1: it's just a.
Speaker 2: Great family experience. I love he apparently got on the
Speaker 2: jumbo tround. I was weaving his flag.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It was great.
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm as somebody who doesn't like the sport of basketball.
Speaker 2: I support good for you, all right. We got a
Speaker 2: lot of questions.
Speaker 1: Of course. Naomi Osaka is present with Patrick Moritaglu in Asia.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of interesting comments coming on that situation.
Speaker 1: We will see where it turns out. And oft when
Speaker 1: you start working with a player and you're new, they
Speaker 1: do have good results early on because they're like, they
Speaker 1: feel fresh, they feel like they get enthusiastic about doing stuff,
Speaker 1: and they get a new voice in their head. And
Speaker 1: we've seen it happen over the last year with some
Speaker 1: players with new coaches and bang they have great results
Speaker 1: and then it slowly fizzles out because you know relationships, right,
Speaker 1: it's like being in a relationship having coached player. So
Speaker 1: see how long it lasts. And we'll see if he
Speaker 1: can turn her around. But certainly in.
Speaker 2: Your view as a coach, what would you suggest to Naomi,
Speaker 2: what's the solution here? Well, I mean, look, she's moving better.
Speaker 2: She started the year not moving great. She ended at
Speaker 2: least in the last couple of tournaments moving better. Her
Speaker 2: groundstrokes were as fearsome as ever. She just when she's
Speaker 2: what do you think she's actually like it needs to
Speaker 2: be addressed here.
Speaker 1: Just you know, she just needs to cut down our
Speaker 1: enforced errors. Like this is a woman that can hit
Speaker 1: a winner from anywhere. And I think once she gets
Speaker 1: into that rhythm of not missing, and when she was
Speaker 1: at her very best, she could make five, six, seven
Speaker 1: balls and then go bomb.
Speaker 2: But can you coach somebody to be like, hey, make
Speaker 2: less error?
Speaker 1: You can tell them to rather than try that.
Speaker 2: I would like that advice, but I don't. But there's
Speaker 2: nothing more to it than that.
Speaker 1: Well, you have to practice it first of all. So
Speaker 1: it comes in the form of discipline on the practice court.
Speaker 1: It comes in, you know, the discipline to not get
Speaker 1: upset at yourself on the practice court, making sure your
Speaker 1: players not getting down about stuff that they're doing that
Speaker 1: you want them to do. Let's just say you know,
Speaker 1: when you're running for a fourhander, you're running for a backhand.
Speaker 1: The majority of players, as you'll see, will hit it
Speaker 1: back cross court. It's over the lower part of the
Speaker 1: debt percent higher percentage, more room to hit the ball,
Speaker 1: and you would then force your opponent to make a
Speaker 1: choice do I go line, do I change the direction
Speaker 1: of the ball, or do I go back cross court
Speaker 1: as well. Now, most players, when you them hit a
Speaker 1: ball on the run cross court, often they would just
Speaker 1: sort of stand in that area because they know, oh,
Speaker 1: you want to go line, go for it. So most
Speaker 1: players will go cross It's why you see these cross
Speaker 1: court rallies, cross court rallies, cross cross and then finally
Speaker 1: someone goes, fay, I'm going line, you know, and they
Speaker 1: go for it. Right now, they might hit a great shot.
Speaker 1: Now your opponent is really moving. Now you can, you know,
Speaker 1: get up to the ball hopefully don't hit to go anyway.
Speaker 1: The reason I'm telling you that is it's just simplicity, right.
Speaker 1: Tennis is really quite simple in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: It's how many more balls can I make than you
Speaker 1: in the court, and my depth of shot is going
Speaker 1: to force you to have to go cross court and
Speaker 1: I'm going to stand here and wait for my short ball,
Speaker 1: and so it's length on ball, it's length length in
Speaker 1: the court. It's not going for the sideline all the time.
Speaker 1: She has the power to be able to hit through someone,
Speaker 1: even if it's you know, three feet from the baseline,
Speaker 1: maybe two feet from the base line and three feet
Speaker 1: from the sideline. So I would just be practicing discipline
Speaker 1: with her, you know, like make every one of these balls.
Speaker 1: And then it's sort of like how Coco played last year,
Speaker 1: where she didn't make an error and then she waited,
Speaker 1: she didn't make an err on a forehand, then she
Speaker 1: waited for the back ends, and then you know, after
Speaker 1: five or six shots, players get panicky and they don't
Speaker 1: know where to go. Where do I go? On Coco,
Speaker 1: That's how it was last year, and that's how Naomi
Speaker 1: has to sort of set up her way of playing
Speaker 1: as well, Shit, where do I go? Because I know
Speaker 1: if I hit anything short, She's going to crush me.
Speaker 1: So it's a matter of discipline on the practice court,
Speaker 1: on the match courts, and clearly making her serve the
Speaker 1: weapon that it is and not losing serve. I would
Speaker 1: focus on two things with her control your service games
Speaker 1: and cut down your unforced eras. Go for a little
Speaker 1: more percentage, but still go for it, but just bring
Speaker 1: the margins in a little bit. It's really simple with her.
Speaker 1: And then the longer points she plays Caitlin, the more
Speaker 1: fits you get, the faster she gets.
Speaker 2: The more confident she gets totally, and those become like virtuous.
Speaker 1: She doesn't need it mentally to be told you can
Speaker 1: win a Grand Slam. No, no, no, yeah, which is a
Speaker 1: big step, right, just not everybody has that. Now has
Speaker 1: the belief, oh I made a final.
Speaker 2: She played well in a finale.
Speaker 1: I can win one. So now the mental side for
Speaker 1: Jessica has shifted a lot. Right now, it's well, she's
Speaker 1: not worrying about quarters anymore or even semis that that
Speaker 1: is broken. She never has to think about that ever again.
Speaker 1: Can I Yes, she knows I can, right, So that's done.
Speaker 1: So that's that you know, you ticked lists right when
Speaker 1: you're when you're coaching a player and you say, do
Speaker 1: you think you can make a SENTI? Well I think
Speaker 1: so what let's talk about this, right, Let's really why
Speaker 1: can't you? So that's when you've got to go through
Speaker 1: all the mental.
Speaker 2: Stuff as a coach and is Patrick the going to
Speaker 2: do this?
Speaker 1: Only time will tell, Caitlin, Only time work will tell.
Speaker 2: One thing that we were complimented for but also ripped
Speaker 2: a little was that we did not talk about Brad
Speaker 2: and oh Coco split because are coaching?
Speaker 1: Well, because it hadn't happened when we spoke.
Speaker 2: Last episode had predated the news. It seemed pretty inevitable. Yes,
Speaker 2: but also, you don't know until you know. You don't
Speaker 2: know until you know, and I wonder, you know, we've
Speaker 2: talked at length about what Coco should be doing. I
Speaker 2: hope she does what she was doing last year that
Speaker 2: was so effective. You know, I think pretty much everyone
Speaker 2: in the sport, pretty much everyone watching the sport thinks
Speaker 2: the sport is better with Coco going deep, contending, playing
Speaker 2: great and not looking.
Speaker 1: Listen, tell my ESPN executive producers that absolutely they want
Speaker 1: Coco deep. For sure brings great numbers for TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's bringing fanship and enthusiasm and people are
Speaker 2: you know, really really really excited when she's playing.
Speaker 1: Well, let's get to these questions then, for everybody, thank
Speaker 1: you for writing in so yeah, this is so fun,
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah. Yeah, So let's start speaking of
Speaker 1: Joe Yesharoff, I hope I said that right enough. I
Speaker 1: didn't Palajz. You told views exactly what Coco was doing
Speaker 1: wrong on her serve in front of Brad, which was awesome.
Speaker 1: By the way, Why don't you become her next coach? Well, Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just.
Speaker 2: An accident.
Speaker 1: I actually hadn't read that. I mean, I'd sort of
Speaker 1: breeze through them, but no, I wanted to answer them
Speaker 1: alive on air because I don't make those decisions, Joe.
Speaker 1: Those decisions with any coaching situation comes from the agent
Speaker 1: in her. In respect to Coco, I would imagine her agents,
Speaker 1: her parents, and then Coco and the three of those
Speaker 1: will talk amongst themselves. I'm sure would.
Speaker 2: You do it?
Speaker 1: Oh, of course I would do it. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say no to an opportunity working with a
Speaker 1: great player. There's no way. Of course I would do it.
Speaker 1: But that's not a decision for me to make. And
Speaker 1: I love Coco. I think she's an incredible kid. And
Speaker 1: I can say kid because she's like more than half
Speaker 1: my age, a lot more than half my age. And
Speaker 1: I think she's an incredibly hard worker. I respect the
Speaker 1: heck out of her, and she has only ever been
Speaker 1: an amazing person to be around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a good human.
Speaker 1: She responds to you, she looks you in the eye.
Speaker 1: I do see she's a lot more stressed on the
Speaker 1: court over the last twelve months. I don't know the
Speaker 1: answer to that. I don't know why. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of it has to do with just not having
Speaker 1: this success that she wanted to have immediately after winning
Speaker 1: the US Open. So it's a lot on her shoulders.
Speaker 1: But look, I just hope whoever she chooses, here's a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of experience, and you know it can work
Speaker 1: on the little technical flaws. She has to have someone
Speaker 1: like that to work on those technical floors and not
Speaker 1: be afraid to work on those technical flaws, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, even with my time with Carolina Plishkova, one
Speaker 1: of the first things I did was say, your serf
Speaker 1: can be way better, and everyone probably looked at me like, well,
Speaker 1: she's like aces, she's the ace queen. Yeah, well there
Speaker 1: are technical flaws still wrong with her surf, for example,
Speaker 1: that you know, you've got to be willing to go
Speaker 1: in there and say I don't need this job. But
Speaker 1: I want this job and I want to help you,
Speaker 1: And those are the two things a lot coaches don't do.
Speaker 1: They go and say, can you pay my rent for me?
Speaker 1: That's true? Yeah, you know?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: Next? All right? Were you oh gosh, it's just one
Speaker 1: after the other. Were you surprised at Cocoa and Brad
Speaker 1: parted ways? And who do you think her next coach
Speaker 1: will be? Julia Eager? I don't know, and I think
Speaker 1: we kind of sort of answered that question. Okay, Ron buckmele,
Speaker 1: you'll like this one. Should real tennis fans care about
Speaker 1: Labor Cup or only when Kully toss plays it?
Speaker 2: I mean I care about Corolitos plenty too, in any context.
Speaker 2: I guess it just wasn't enough to get me to
Speaker 2: watch the Laver Cup. Should real tennis flans? I think
Speaker 2: real tennis fans can define themselves however they want. Real
Speaker 2: tennis fans can watch their neighborhood, you know, Ladder, They
Speaker 2: can what a local club, the high school team. I
Speaker 2: think they can do whatever they want. I think for
Speaker 2: me to take the Labor Cup seriously, I would like
Speaker 2: for it to include women, and I would like for
Speaker 2: it to be a little bit more thoughtful about where
Speaker 2: it travels peror our conversation earlier exactly, Okay, James. Also
Speaker 2: the law and Order font. I just can't get over this.
Speaker 2: It looks like a guy from Ohio who's an agent,
Speaker 2: had the entire hand and doing all of this, and
Speaker 2: I just the taste level is so bad. I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about anyone in particular.
Speaker 1: Go on, Okay, good j Miller delighted with the WTA
Speaker 1: Tour players, a little worried about today's all court game though,
Speaker 1: and how tennis always a gladiator sport, now daily battle
Speaker 1: of attrition with huge impact on players time on court injuries,
Speaker 1: when everyone becomes an adule to win a point. We
Speaker 1: have a problem.
Speaker 2: She's talking about like counterpunching grind she.
Speaker 1: Or a he. It's Miller, Miller o Popolis and it's
Speaker 1: a photo of a cat. A cat lady could be
Speaker 1: a cat lady, well, a cat and gentlemen, oh no,
Speaker 1: it's not a cat. It's a dog. My apologies. I
Speaker 1: wasn't zooming in.
Speaker 2: We don't know anything about you, Miller. Ye will answer
Speaker 2: your question.
Speaker 1: I will say I agree with you. And one of
Speaker 1: the things that I did say number of years ago
Speaker 1: was the next great tennis player, particularly on the men's side,
Speaker 1: and I would argue to say that this could be
Speaker 1: also the women's side has to be better at coming
Speaker 1: forward into the net and improve on the volleys and
Speaker 1: have a shot that's a little different. And you know,
Speaker 1: I got a bit of shit a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: ago shocker from Shocker fans about my comments about Carlos
Speaker 1: bringing the drop shot in right, and in my opinion,
Speaker 1: no one has used that shot more than him. Ever, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he is in response right in tennis, particularly off the
Speaker 1: forehand right. And then I got he didn't invent the
Speaker 1: drop shot. I'm like, you, calm down, everybody. I know
Speaker 1: the drop shots. Guess what I used to play, and
Speaker 1: guess what I used to hit a drop shot. I
Speaker 1: know that the drop shot has existed in tennis. But
Speaker 1: his forehand drop shot is a shot we've never seen.
Speaker 2: It's incredibly well disguised. He hits it from anywhere, and
Speaker 2: he executes it flawlessly almost all the time. Yes, it's insane,
Speaker 2: So it's truly a weapon.
Speaker 1: It's truly a weapon. And when you guys, guys standing
Speaker 1: one hundred feet behind the baseline, and some of these
Speaker 1: when as well, like in egashion tech players that play
Speaker 1: way back. If you can implement a fourhand, particularly fourhand
Speaker 1: drop shot, a lot of the women do it off
Speaker 1: the back end. Donnovekich hits that drop shot so well.
Speaker 1: On I think on Zubur brought in the drop shot
Speaker 1: to women's tennis a lot more. And you know, it's
Speaker 1: all we could talk about. It's all people can talk about.
Speaker 1: So it's like, so my my point in telling you
Speaker 1: this is the next great player outside of the Sabalancas
Speaker 1: and all this, they will have an extra shot that
Speaker 1: goes whoa finally, you know, and Mukhova, for.
Speaker 2: Example, is a true would talk about it.
Speaker 1: She's a true all court player and maybe one shot
Speaker 1: she can implement is the drop shot herself. But she
Speaker 1: has every shot in the book. So Fali's comes in, so.
Speaker 2: I actually think we're in the midst of seeing this happen.
Speaker 2: I think between a curlytos between Arena Sebleka. Everyone talks
Speaker 2: about how fast her groundstrokes are and how huge are
Speaker 2: fourhand is, but she moves forward, she hits great valley.
Speaker 2: She's won several slams in doubles. Like, to me, that
Speaker 2: is so exciting because it's not just power baseline tennis.
Speaker 2: It's really it's really varietive and creative, and I know it,
Speaker 2: and I think you're right. I'd love to see more
Speaker 2: of it. And Mukhova being healthy and making a strong
Speaker 2: showing this year I think shows a lot of people like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is we have a style of tennis we can
Speaker 2: get excited about that we haven't seen so much of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it brings back a little bit of ash
Speaker 1: Barty type that we loved to watch obviously. Okay, monkey Bread,
Speaker 1: I'd like to know how much during a match are
Speaker 1: players thinking, if I win this match, it's twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars more in prize money. How much do you
Speaker 1: think players think about things like this?
Speaker 2: I think it depends on player. Right.
Speaker 1: You've also written something else. I'm curious why the announcers
Speaker 1: never mentioned maybe this stuff. I cut the end of
Speaker 1: that question off, but oh no, there it is. I'm
Speaker 1: also curious why the announcers never mentioned prize money. Fritz
Speaker 1: Foux over Foe was an extra five hundred k I've
Speaker 1: heard them mention, Okay, so I can tell you this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we always mentioned that as announcers, the money. But you know,
Speaker 1: we don't want to get to caught in the weeds
Speaker 1: with that, because honestly, is not important. I will say
Speaker 1: as a player, when I got a little bit older
Speaker 1: and I knew that my time was running out of
Speaker 1: how big a check can I make as a tennis player?
Speaker 1: Because you know, arguably I'll never make checks like that
Speaker 1: ever again. You know, the potential of making a check
Speaker 1: for you know, a couple of hundred thousand dollars or
Speaker 1: something like that. It's podcast money, Yeah, it's podcast money.
Speaker 1: But so I started thinking about a little bit more
Speaker 1: at the end of my career, think is shit, if
Speaker 1: we won this tournaments, you know, one hundred and fifty thousand,
Speaker 1: like that's really great. But honestly, it's not really what
Speaker 1: motivates any tennis player. I think winning and losing is
Speaker 1: more important. Like winning is more important. And then you
Speaker 1: think about what it can bring for you ranking points wise,
Speaker 1: and then inevitably you're always thinking about money in a way,
Speaker 1: but you're not really on the court thinking, oh, this
Speaker 1: is worth another twenty thousand to me. I mean it
Speaker 1: might cross your mind.
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like Sloan Stephens sort of famously
Speaker 2: kind of owns that yeah, which I kind of really
Speaker 2: love about her. Yeah, Like I'm not sure she's thinking
Speaker 2: about it every match, but definitely she's like chit ching
Speaker 2: and maybe, like.
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of players that come
Speaker 1: from very poor backgrounds.
Speaker 2: The lines evens coming from.
Speaker 1: No, I think she comes from a middle class family.
Speaker 1: But but it's arguably you talking players from Ukraine, from
Speaker 1: Russia or from wherever they're poor.
Speaker 2: There's absolutely if you're getting into tournaments about its getting
Speaker 2: your teeth and there's a difference between you know, your
Speaker 2: entire year's earnings on the line. Like sure, yeah, I
Speaker 2: think you're right. It doesn't seem I.
Speaker 1: Mean when you're talking about it for a Sinner and
Speaker 1: Djokovic and you know, even Fritz and Foe and all
Speaker 1: these guys, they're not thinking, oh god, this is worth
Speaker 1: another hundred K to me. No, Okay, players Jpeg hits flat.
Speaker 1: That's a connotation for it, Jessica pol players who hit
Speaker 1: super flat or with a lot of spin. I Epergula
Speaker 1: who hits flat? Can she easily play with more shape
Speaker 1: if needed? Not? Really, Yes, she can, but that's not
Speaker 1: her game. The way she hits the ball and the
Speaker 1: way her sort of her wrist action is and all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. She's not about to change that now.
Speaker 1: Now I know that there's times that she probably has
Speaker 1: put more spin on the ball, and can You can
Speaker 1: put more spin on the ball as a player, but
Speaker 1: it's not really your nature to go to and it's
Speaker 1: not natural for you. Then it becomes a bit harder.
Speaker 1: It's certainly something to work on because it can be
Speaker 1: the difference making against a certain player. You want to
Speaker 1: get the ball out of the hitting zone for example.
Speaker 1: For example, hitting spin against jask Is is a good idea.
Speaker 1: You want to try and get it above her shoulders
Speaker 1: because if you don't, you're in all sorts of trouble
Speaker 1: because she hits all so well. She's like a five
Speaker 1: foot version five foot four. I don't want to make
Speaker 1: it shorter than she is. She's I think six or
Speaker 1: five six, not five seven, maybe five six. Listen, she's
Speaker 1: not I'm not a sabalanca. She's not sabal ancha. I
Speaker 1: was going to compare her to her way she plays
Speaker 1: is like a five foot six or seven version of
Speaker 1: Lindsay Davenport.
Speaker 2: She's flattening and hard.
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like they're hitting the ball hard, but
Speaker 1: my god, the ball comes flying off her racket and
Speaker 1: it is really hard to control. Okay, Jay Miller again,
Speaker 1: if a second question is possible, Yeah, it is, because
Speaker 1: I'm already READI it. Still having a really hard time
Speaker 1: seeing tennis with betting outfits as major tour sponsors, slippery
Speaker 1: slope players harassed by gamblers is unacceptable. Are the tours
Speaker 1: going to do anything on this or even give the
Speaker 1: players a percent of sponsorship? Well, great question. I always
Speaker 1: think that's funny too, because I remember a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago they did such a big investigation into players
Speaker 1: gam I know, are they throwing matches and are their
Speaker 1: players out there doing Yes, of course there are players
Speaker 1: doing it, but they're in the small, lower level tournaments
Speaker 1: like five thousands in Brazil. Those are the players that
Speaker 1: are tanking matches to make money. Need the money from
Speaker 1: the gambling syndicates. So if you want to bet on
Speaker 1: a fifty thousand or five thousand tournament or ten thousand
Speaker 1: k tournament in Brazil and your player doesn't win, suck
Speaker 1: on it, okay, because if you want to riding them
Speaker 1: on social media telling them you couldn't hold serve and
Speaker 1: why would you double fault this happens all the time
Speaker 1: to players, it happens, they get abused non stop, and
Speaker 1: they're all gamblers. So but the Australian Open, I remember
Speaker 1: they had a sponsorship of a gambling company on their
Speaker 1: you know, sponsorship behind the court and everything, and everyone
Speaker 1: was up in arms. How can you do that? You're
Speaker 1: doing an investigation and a gambling and tennis and you've
Speaker 1: got a gambling sponsorship. I'm like, and gambling has been
Speaker 1: a part of every single Grand Slam forever. They just
Speaker 1: don't promote it, but they're always been a part of it.
Speaker 1: And I have no problem with a gambling company sponsoring
Speaker 1: a tennis tournament or a sporting event because people gamble
Speaker 1: on sports. It's been happening in Australia for one hundred
Speaker 1: billion years, in the UK and Europe, and finally the
Speaker 1: US is finally like, oh we can make money on this.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's unbelievable to me that US has taken
Speaker 1: so long to have the Draft Kings and you know, ESPN,
Speaker 1: Bet and all these companies, because it happens all the
Speaker 1: time and it's a great It makes a lot of money. Now,
Speaker 1: if you want to be stupid enough to throw your
Speaker 1: money down on tennis events, and you apply losers if
Speaker 1: you feel the need to harass them, you're a fucking loser.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I do think what's your thought on this? Well,
Speaker 2: I sort of think of it from a platforming perspective,
Speaker 2: which is kind of similar to the Twitter conversation we
Speaker 2: had the other day where people are like, oh, do
Speaker 2: you you know Twitter? And what do you think about
Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't think anything about Twitter. Twitter
Speaker 2: doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't send traffic to media people,
Speaker 2: it doesn't. It's not where the conversation is. It's a
Speaker 2: bunch of Reddit virgins.
Speaker 1: It's gross.
Speaker 2: And I think very similarly when you think about platforms,
Speaker 2: in no way, shape or form should any of the
Speaker 2: players be subjected to harass, right, and so what I'm
Speaker 2: told to die? Yeah, they're told way worse things than
Speaker 2: to die. So, without getting into but actually, Caroline Garcia's
Speaker 2: podcast Tennis Insider has had a number of conversations about
Speaker 2: this where players are very candid about talking about it.
Speaker 2: She herself, yeah, put stuff on their for a long time,
Speaker 2: but I really applaud her for kind of taking it
Speaker 2: on pretty regularly. So to me, it's a platform issue.
Speaker 2: If you are a draft Kings or a FanDuel member
Speaker 2: or executive and you see players or your betters being
Speaker 2: reported for harassment, kick them off the platform. Will they
Speaker 2: create another account under another name. Maybe, But the idea
Speaker 2: is that it's not platforming hate speech and the sooner
Speaker 2: you police that. If you're a platform, then you're a publisher.
Speaker 2: And that's a distinction that almost nobody is going to
Speaker 2: appreciate or get. But as a media person, if you're
Speaker 2: platforming people, meaning giving them the chance to speak, you
Speaker 2: are actually a publisher and you're bound by the laws
Speaker 2: of the land, which in this case indicate hate speech.
Speaker 2: And going after players with hate speech means not only
Speaker 2: are you liable, but also you need to be the deplatform.
Speaker 1: And anyone who writes to a player an abusive message
Speaker 1: and it's daily, I just think you really should get
Speaker 1: a life.
Speaker 2: And you know, well, they don't have life. This is
Speaker 2: their whole thing. So I would just say.
Speaker 1: Abuse, it's so bad. It's like, what is that going
Speaker 1: to do. It's not going to help you later on.
Speaker 1: And I hope anyone who writes an abusive tweet or
Speaker 1: a text or anything to anyone's Instagram or social I
Speaker 1: hope you lose every bit of your money, all of it.
Speaker 2: Well, they probably are good.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to doctor Sook. It's a good name.
Speaker 1: Holgas started annoying but strong, now less annoying, but losing
Speaker 1: was his immature swagger, key to his game. He has
Speaker 1: three questions, so we'll answer that one first. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that he's matured a little bit, and I
Speaker 1: think as we've noted mostly on this pod, and I
Speaker 1: said some controversial things about whole Garuno, but I actually
Speaker 1: like the kid a lot, and I think that time
Speaker 1: will tell. I think he's got a few technical flaws
Speaker 1: as well. The forehands a little bit funky. But I
Speaker 1: think he's going to be fine. He's going to mature.
Speaker 1: I think he's going to get better with age.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 1: He's a good all court player, and I think he's
Speaker 1: going to mature and get older. I think he had
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on his shoulders early on when
Speaker 1: he came out and had such great success.
Speaker 2: So well, he came up with curlyitos, and I feel
Speaker 2: like the two of them were sort of hailed as
Speaker 2: a very section and when one of them takes off
Speaker 2: the other one doesn't to the same hates. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: becomes a lot of pressure. Now. I found him really
Speaker 2: introspective and thoughtful in his the Netflix episode about him,
Speaker 2: and I thought, oh, he's cocky, but in a way
Speaker 2: that's like sort of a little self aware. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it made me like him a lot more. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think when he goes and has Twitter rants
Speaker 1: with people that give him shit, I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: feel bad because he's like obviously is very sensitive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like him anyway, and I do like it.
Speaker 2: I'm written for him.
Speaker 1: Okay, tiafa dump Wayne, but seems to have more problems
Speaker 1: bless with physical and technical game. Is he Is he
Speaker 1: too muscle bound? Same? Doctor Sook said that No, he's
Speaker 1: definitely not too muscle bound. He sweats a lot. He
Speaker 1: ran out of gas against Taylor because arguably Taylor just
Speaker 1: has a little bit more firepower, particularly on the serve. Well,
Speaker 1: now Francis has a great serve. I just think he
Speaker 1: talked about being very nervous. He was very close to
Speaker 1: winning that match in four sets. Taylor was, you know,
Speaker 1: looking a bit down himself. But I give Taylor older
Speaker 1: credit for winning that match, And no, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think Look, Francis is always going to have these
Speaker 1: funky swings. I mean, self taught tennis player essentially, which
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest stories in tennis. He'll be fine,
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Mukhova is great. But do Checks
Speaker 1: have mental wobble? What that is the third question from
Speaker 1: doctor Zok, So enough from you, doctor Suk.
Speaker 2: No, she doesn't think. Yeah, the answer is no.
Speaker 1: I think. Look, I think that she definitely could be
Speaker 1: mentally a little bit stronger. I think she's starting to
Speaker 1: hopefully believe in herself. But this is a woman that
Speaker 1: just come back from a major, major, major risk surgery.
Speaker 2: And has had two Grand Slam semifinals and a final year.
Speaker 2: I don't think the question is about the Checks. I
Speaker 2: mean I think if you want to look at the Checks,
Speaker 2: like are the Checks the most mentally strong people in
Speaker 2: the history of tennis? Maybe maybe listen between Lendell and Martina, like,
Speaker 2: come on, the tradition is strong. I think it's more
Speaker 2: a Mukova specific back. Well, it's also like this is
Speaker 2: how long this has been a dynasty, and they're really
Speaker 2: responsible I think for the generations that followed, right, So
Speaker 2: I think when I think of check players. Even at
Speaker 2: the level that I play, I play with a lot
Speaker 2: of check players. They're tough as nails. So I think
Speaker 2: it's a Mukova thing, which is I'm coming back from
Speaker 2: injury and I have a very high creative game, high
Speaker 2: creativity inspired game, which I think you can get a
Speaker 2: little bit lost in the saw sometimes about that.
Speaker 1: It was one fourhand volley away from being a set
Speaker 1: and three love up against Jess a few breaks. I
Speaker 1: don't think she loses that match if she makes that volley.
Speaker 2: Well, she made the valley, she didn't pay away.
Speaker 1: No, no, she missed the volley.
Speaker 2: She didn't. She hit it right back to Jess, and
Speaker 2: Jess hit a passenger.
Speaker 1: She missed the toppy foehand into the net.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll have to go to the tap. My god,
Speaker 2: I was doing please please just keep going.
Speaker 1: Okay, I was doing the match and I said, wow,
Speaker 1: she normally it actually went long. It went long.
Speaker 2: When I'm edicated this, it'll be really exciting for us.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull it up right now after the questions. Okay,
Speaker 1: So R. M. Jackson five like the name, and he's
Speaker 1: a white guy. That's great. Why is Muhova so fun
Speaker 1: to watch. Does she have compact or long strokes? Is
Speaker 1: she a mix of old school Borg Macenroe and current techniques? Well,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a little bit of a confusing question,
Speaker 1: but I do appreciate it. RM Jackson five. She is
Speaker 1: fun to watch. I would say her strokes are very
Speaker 1: classic strokes. There's nothing about her strokes or her game
Speaker 1: that are really that flawed, and I think that's what
Speaker 1: makes us so fun to watch. I think the most
Speaker 1: thing that I love to watch is the fact that
Speaker 1: she serves and bollies. The fact that she comes into
Speaker 1: the net every opportunity she can, and on any short
Speaker 1: forehand she plays the right shot. She hits that forehand
Speaker 1: inside out, down the line and comes into the net
Speaker 1: and finishes it off with a volley, And I just
Speaker 1: absolutely love watching her play. Yes, so all right, let's
Speaker 1: get to b hd t TL wacky WTA. I think
Speaker 1: WTA should make round talking about the ball standard on
Speaker 1: all surfaces to reduce injuries. I go one serve only
Speaker 1: to reduce serve boddying. Like uts, it'll make WS games
Speaker 1: more watchable. What's wrong with women's tennis? I'm not even
Speaker 1: going to answer this question. Women's game more watchable in
Speaker 1: my opinion, XD balls cause so many shoulder injuries. Blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Okay, wacky WTA. I will say this, you
Speaker 1: can't have the same ball every week because balls and
Speaker 1: ball sponsors like Wilson and Penn and Technic Fiber and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah and Babbelatt and all of them, they
Speaker 1: all make balls and they all want them to be
Speaker 1: used at a tournament, so they give the tournament money
Speaker 1: to use their balls. It's called promoting their ball. So
Speaker 1: of course a tournament is going to take a fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars from a Wilson or one hundred thousand from
Speaker 1: a Wilson to use their balls in the tournament. So
Speaker 1: that's why you don't have the same uniformity of a ball. Now,
Speaker 1: if you did, then the w T A a TP
Speaker 1: should get together with a Wilson or a Pan or
Speaker 1: whoever and say this is our ball all the time.
Speaker 2: Does seem like a opportunity.
Speaker 1: It does, but it's not going to happen. So there
Speaker 1: you go. And yes, the reason they're using regular duty
Speaker 1: at the US Open is because it does cause problems
Speaker 1: for the player, especially the women with their wrists, with
Speaker 1: their elbows and their shoulders. So that's why they went
Speaker 1: back to regular duty. And that's it. And I don't
Speaker 1: appreciate b h dtl's little slant on women's tennis. You
Speaker 1: should think about men's tennis a little bit more being unwatchable,
Speaker 1: I think so. I know you're a fan, but that
Speaker 1: just bothers me. He has another question. Should Goff have
Speaker 1: parted ways with Gilbert? Who do you think as coach?
Speaker 1: We've already okay, right a kana, Yeah, these are all
Speaker 1: being answered. Why is okay, it's maybe someday who we love?
Speaker 1: Why isn't there a Slam for South America?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Caitlin, thank you, agreed. Let's she wants to take
Speaker 2: the Australian Open and put in South America.
Speaker 1: So we are done with this question.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily.
Speaker 1: I think I could have a major, not a major, tonment,
Speaker 1: not a major like a Grand Slam, but that wasn't
Speaker 1: a big tournament down.
Speaker 2: I think we can well, we can do literally anything
Speaker 2: we want. Keep in mind, one hundred years ago this
Speaker 2: was a globe ruled by kingdoms and you know blood no.
Speaker 2: But my point is nothing matters. The world can change.
Speaker 2: Nobody could have a Slam in October until the French
Speaker 2: Open did it like anything can happen. The Australian Open
Speaker 2: wasn't really a major until it was the Open major.
Speaker 2: It has not. Was it a bigger deal than the
Speaker 2: Canadian Open or the Italian Open. No. Up until a
Speaker 2: certain time it wasn't. So my point is why not
Speaker 2: at a fifth Slam?
Speaker 1: But it wasn't always a major.
Speaker 2: Sure, But my point here is you can do whatever
Speaker 2: we want with the calendar. What I would love to
Speaker 2: see is the tours consolidate, decide which thousands mattered most,
Speaker 2: and then let's change the definition of a Slam so
Speaker 2: that it becomes, you know, as prestigious because the Southern hemisphere. This, this,
Speaker 2: by the way, is my way of appeasing you and
Speaker 2: not taking away the Australian Open. But instead let's add
Speaker 2: a fit Slam. Maybe it's in Argentina, a very strong
Speaker 2: tennis playing country.
Speaker 1: You cannot add another.
Speaker 2: You can do anything, You can do anything, you just
Speaker 2: want to South America, Argentina. Everybody does.
Speaker 1: What can club torontosaurus flex? Who we love? What can
Speaker 1: club doubles players do? More?
Speaker 2: Poach to win?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Move the net more? Yeah, move the net more?
Speaker 1: Or if the net player is stinking it up, just
Speaker 1: keep hitting it at them over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: Nowadays, I play a lot of club level doubles.
Speaker 1: It's called two against one.
Speaker 2: The difference between the college players like me and the
Speaker 2: players who are good but did not play college doubles
Speaker 2: is they don't poach. Yeah, poach, They just stand there.
Speaker 2: They just stand there and wait for you. Ye.
Speaker 1: Look overall, we appreciate you writing us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are great. I like getting questions from the audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah you do, I do?
Speaker 2: I know you do you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too. That's why I put the tweet out. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we're going into Beijing starting. My interest level is two percent.
Speaker 1: I mean, I shouldn't say that I will watch more
Speaker 1: of Beijing. I did not watch any hardly anything of
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. I didn't barely watch Labor Cup.
Speaker 1: I was more interested in the WNBA postseason and the
Speaker 1: Solheim Cup and a lot of other women's sports. But
Speaker 1: I will get back into the tennis now that Beijing
Speaker 1: is starting. But it's just I don't know, just something
Speaker 1: about I mean, Serena used to shut down after the
Speaker 1: US Open, literally did not play after the US Open
Speaker 1: for many, many years, and you know she could afford
Speaker 1: to pay the fine. She didn't play the WTA finals.
Speaker 1: I wasn't okay with that. I wish she had done that,
Speaker 1: just because it's our biggest tournament WT finals. But those
Speaker 1: are going to be in Jedda this year in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: So your thoughts on that, because you might.
Speaker 2: Go, I'm I'm taking the Billygian King line.
Speaker 1: Can't change it unless you're there. Yeah, and you really
Speaker 1: think that's gonna happen? Yeah, Okay, yeah I do.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm let's keep in mind my background is in politics. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't believe systems are immutable, and I also think,
Speaker 2: you know, we live in a world where all of
Speaker 2: a sudden we can decide the borders of country is
Speaker 2: changing overnight. So yeah, I mean, am I incredibly optimistic
Speaker 2: as a gay person, as a lum of the Washington Post. No,
Speaker 2: there's there's some reservations I have, and I'm certainly not
Speaker 2: going to use this platform to defend. But i will say, like,
Speaker 2: if you.
Speaker 1: Go to Saudi Raybe, you're not taking Claire and I
Speaker 1: certainly not.
Speaker 2: That's said I'm gonna I'm I'm curious and I believe
Speaker 2: in like, okay, let's do some Let's do some engagement here.
Speaker 2: You know, I think if the tour went back to
Speaker 2: China post punk SHUEI, and it shouldn't always be on
Speaker 2: the women, by the way to lead the charge. The
Speaker 2: men have decided.
Speaker 1: Oh, the men have been going.
Speaker 2: There forever forever. So for me, like my my general
Speaker 2: approach at this point is let's say, let's let's have
Speaker 2: a conversation.
Speaker 1: And let's finish this pod off. You had a great
Speaker 1: article in the New York Times.
Speaker 2: What a fun article in the New York Times. Yeah,
Speaker 2: after a tumult a transformation at rack of magazine was
Speaker 2: the headline. And you know, having a business for almost
Speaker 2: a decade that we've been trying to you know, illuminate
Speaker 2: the stories, grow, do all this stuff, you know, sometimes
Speaker 2: you need to make some changes. And I think what
Speaker 2: I was most excited about is the fact that in
Speaker 2: the New York Times we had a chance to sort
Speaker 2: of talk about all the amazing things that this last
Speaker 2: year has brought, especially you know, making the magazine is amazing.
Speaker 2: Turning it from a sort of you know, hobbyist kind
Speaker 2: of setup where it wasn't paying for itself to something profitable.
Speaker 2: This year has been a tremendous effort with the best,
Speaker 2: most amazing writers, creators, editors, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I liked the last line in the article where
Speaker 1: it's it do you remember it?
Speaker 2: I do, but I'll let you know you say it.
Speaker 2: It will be profitable for the first time. And I
Speaker 2: think for me really this year, and I think for
Speaker 2: me not coincidentally bringing on an all team of women,
Speaker 2: having the larger footprint where we get to do amazing
Speaker 2: things with brands and with events and with collabs. You know,
Speaker 2: for me, I think this is just a very modern
Speaker 2: way of doing media. Does it mean I'm going to
Speaker 2: be right all the time or make a thousand percent
Speaker 2: of my you know bets correctly? No, But I'm ambitious,
Speaker 2: and you know how society feels about ambitious women, which
Speaker 2: is I think speaks to a love of them, a
Speaker 2: little bit of the grist for the mill. So for me,
Speaker 2: the fact that we got to talk about all the
Speaker 2: amazing stuff we've done, including but not limited to trying
Speaker 2: to take over our first club space here in New York,
Speaker 2: which would have us running a tennis court. Will it happen.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Quick do I get priority on the court,
Speaker 2: you get free membership? Right?
Speaker 1: Okay? Well on that note, this the end story is,
Speaker 1: if you want to do a company, just have all women.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, thanks for joining us. See you next week.