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Speaker 1: It's that time time time lucking load. The Michael Very

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Speaker 1: Show is on the.

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Speaker 2: Air, outside cooking into Mica.

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Speaker 1: We gotta feed a beard. I don't plan to shave.

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Speaker 1: And it's good thing, but I just gotta see I'm

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Speaker 1: doing all right, will.

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Speaker 3: I'm mad with supports.

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Speaker 1: I'm beating VERDICTU. That's the truth. It's neither drinking a

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Speaker 1: drug and noo.

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Speaker 4: I'm just turning out all right.

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Speaker 1: It's a right. I know the sun's still shining out

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Speaker 1: a close night eyes.

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Speaker 4: It's hard times in the neighborhood, But whyking every day

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Speaker 4: just as good?

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Speaker 1: Is this going to be the greatest Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: promotional giveaway ever? I don't know, but it's going to be.

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Speaker 1: In the conversation for their game on May twenty ninth

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Speaker 1: against the Kansas City Royals, the Texas Rangers have announced

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Speaker 1: that they will be giving away replica bloodstained Nolan Ryan jerseys.

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Speaker 1: You know the jersey that he's wearing. When was it

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Speaker 1: bo Jackson hit the ball in it? And I think

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Speaker 1: it was Bo Jackson. A ball busted his mouth and

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Speaker 1: he's bleeding and he keeps pitching. In another one, another

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Speaker 1: promotional night, they're going to feature a Nolan Ryan punching

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Speaker 1: bibblehead to honor the can of whoop pass he opened

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Speaker 1: on Robin Ventura in nineteen ninety three. I'm actually surprised

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Speaker 1: he let them do that. He does not brag about that.

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Speaker 1: He should. I would I be walking around, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd have my theme music playing to that. I whooped

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Speaker 1: his young ass. I was twenty years older than him.

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Speaker 1: But he doesn't. He doesn't. Chuck Morgan, the Rangers executive

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Speaker 1: vice president, says about the Nolan Ryan bloody jersey promo Knights,

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Speaker 1: this would rank pretty high in a list of Nolan giveaways.

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Speaker 1: You can go almost to any sports bar in the

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Speaker 1: country and see a picture of that hanging on the wall.

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Speaker 1: It's just an iconic moment, and it is I'm so

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Speaker 1: proud he's from Houston. I really am. You know, A

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Speaker 1: Chemo Lodge one thirty four for the Rockets, Earl Campbell,

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Speaker 1: thirty four for the others, Nolan Ryan, thirty four for

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Speaker 1: the astros.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 1: We've been very fortunate. We've been very fortunate. You can pine,

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Speaker 1: you can lament for what was, but be grateful for

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Speaker 1: what was that we lived through it. This is this

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Speaker 1: is George Brett Star third basement for the for the

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Speaker 1: Royals at the time of Pine tar fame talking about

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Speaker 1: that bloody jersey when Nolan Ryan kept pitching after after

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Speaker 1: his mouth was busted open and his bleeding and listen

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Speaker 1: thisss he gets a little popper and then the ball

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Speaker 1: and got lost in the rain drops. The ball split

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Speaker 1: his lip open.

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Speaker 4: Nolan could stick his tongue through his lip right here

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Speaker 4: because it was like cut from there down. He finished

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Speaker 4: that inning somehow. In between innings he went into the clubhouse.

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Speaker 4: Doctor mcgowski stitched him up, went back out and finished

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Speaker 4: the gage.

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Speaker 1: He think he was intimidated before try facing him. What

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Speaker 1: was ranger uniform just covered with blood? Now that's intimidating.

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Speaker 1: Hey man, You remember George Brett coming out of the

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Speaker 1: dugout when they call that he comes out running with

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Speaker 1: his hands going like a bibble head or what in

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Speaker 1: the world? You know who loved, loved, loved George Brett,

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Speaker 1: rush Limbaugh rush Limbaugh who worked in the PR department

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Speaker 1: for the Kensley Royals and was big buddies with George Brett.

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Speaker 1: So our show sponsor top Gun Range in the News

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Speaker 1: the Dumbass Criminals HPD said there was a gun jugging

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Speaker 1: case in southwest Houston, where a man leaving top gun

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Speaker 1: range was followed by three suspects who tried to robin

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Speaker 1: you're robbing a guy coming out of a gun range.

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Speaker 1: Do you realize you might get a newbie? But you

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Speaker 1: might you might get a guy who knows how to

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Speaker 1: use his gun and is only too ready to put

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Speaker 1: a cap in your ass. He shot one of the

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Speaker 1: suspects in the chin area, they called it, and the

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Speaker 1: other two fled. The story from Khou.

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Speaker 6: Police are saying that this is a type of crime

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Speaker 6: they do see from time to time when a Robert

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Speaker 6: targets something considered high value. Now Here behind me is

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Speaker 6: the gun range where investigators say the victim was leaving.

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Speaker 6: Then less than a mile away from here, he shot

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Speaker 6: one of the suspects during that attempted robbery. Now HPD

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Speaker 6: says this all happened near Rampart Street and the West

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Speaker 6: Park Tollway around four in the afternoon. Investigators see the

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Speaker 6: victim was leaving the gun range when a car followed

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Speaker 6: him and tried to rob him less than a mile away.

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Speaker 6: Police say the suspects grabbed a bag containing guns, but

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Speaker 6: the victim was armed and shot one of the men

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Speaker 6: during the attempted robbery to other suspects ran from the scene,

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Speaker 6: leaving their vehicle behind.

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Speaker 2: So we encourage people when you leave a gun store

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Speaker 2: or you know, anything that's high value, jewelry store, a bank,

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Speaker 2: a gun store, anything that could be a target, to

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Speaker 2: be very cognizant of who's following you. If they follow

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Speaker 2: you out of a parking lot or something, you know,

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Speaker 2: try to take a couple of left turns, see if

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Speaker 2: somebody follows you. If they are following you, call nine

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Speaker 2: to one. Are perceived in the closest police station.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't proceed to the closest police station. He

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Speaker 1: handled the problem himself. This is what the left doesn't

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Speaker 1: want you to be able to do, handle the problem yourself. See,

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Speaker 1: what we need is law abiding citizen is to put

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Speaker 1: a bullet in the brain of bad guys who are

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Speaker 1: trying to steal their stuff. That's what we need. We

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Speaker 1: need the law abiding patriots among us to shoot and

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Speaker 1: kill the burglars, robbers, rapists, pedophiles as they commit their crimes,

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Speaker 1: not to wait around and call the police so that

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Speaker 1: they can a couple hours later write a report. We

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Speaker 1: don't need that anymore. We need to take back our

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Speaker 1: country and guns help you do that, because these turds

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Speaker 1: were up to no good. Let me tell what well,

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Speaker 1: I better not say, better not say that, Ramon hold

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Speaker 1: that one. Jasmine Crockett has struggled getting Jasmine Crockett says

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Speaker 1: that her white opponent. This is the Senate race in Texas.

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Speaker 1: The Democrats have Jasmine Crockett this really stupid black woman,

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Speaker 1: and James Tallerico, this really white liberal. They call him

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Speaker 1: beto with a Bible. Okay, I call him out. And

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Speaker 1: Jasmine Crockett says that he has struggled getting black support.

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Speaker 1: See he not black. He not getting the blacks, so

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Speaker 1: you're not getting the whites. But Colin Allred, who's a

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Speaker 1: black congressman who got out of the race because she

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Speaker 1: told him to. Colin Allred is demanding an apology over

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Speaker 1: tall Rico, who called him mediocre black man. Oh you

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Speaker 1: want a black man to a black man wants him

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Speaker 1: to apologize. Oh that's reminiscent of do you really want

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Speaker 1: to apologize? Are you sure? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, very well. If you want to apologize, I will accept. Oh,

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Speaker 3: thank you, mister Jackson, thank you. Brian get A picture

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Speaker 3: of mister marsh apologizing. Ready to go, sir, kiss it?

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Speaker 3: Huh apologize?

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Speaker 1: Kiss it? You want me to kiss your that's right? Apologize?

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, I'll see here apologize Michael Berry's show. I

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Speaker 1: love to do long form interviews. I finally be a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of fun and people that I find to

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Speaker 1: be interesting. I like to ask questions, and then I guess,

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Speaker 1: I guess the reason I like to do the long

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Speaker 1: form interviews is I can ask people questions that would

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Speaker 1: otherwise be creepy or nosy if we're doing that sort

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Speaker 1: of a profile. So right along with me, won't you.

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Speaker 1: When I came to Houston nineteen eighty nine, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much later it was, and that wasn't long,

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Speaker 1: but the name Wayne del Chafino kept appearing on my

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Speaker 1: Channel thirteen television, and I didn't have the tools set

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Speaker 1: to understand back then, but I came to learn it

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Speaker 1: was really good storytelling and punchy investigative journalism like people

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Speaker 1: used to do. And then there were lawsuits, and the

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Speaker 1: stations were corporate owned and they had a lot less

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Speaker 1: tolerance for being sued over stories. And then the rating

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Speaker 1: systems changing, and then the dultcha Finoes kind of went away,

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Speaker 1: and you see fewer and fewer of the long form, extensive,

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Speaker 1: in depth investigative journalism the way you used to. It

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Speaker 1: was always punchy and fun and ratings winners, and I

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Speaker 1: missed that. But I thought it would be fun to

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Speaker 1: talk to Wayne Delchafino about his career because it's a

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Speaker 1: career that kind of mirrors my time being in Houston,

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Speaker 1: and I've enjoyed it, and I find him to be

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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting cat. Plus there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people out there like to kill him, and I think

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Speaker 1: that makes you interesting when a lot of people really

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Speaker 1: want to kill you. So welcome to the program, Wayne Delchofino,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, my brother.

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Speaker 5: I was like almost forty years ago that the district's attorney,

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Speaker 5: Johnny Holme, has told me if I was killed, there'd

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Speaker 5: be a thousand suspects, so you could imagine, you can

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Speaker 5: imagine in forty more years, it's probably five thousand now. Yeah, Oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. I had a dinner party recently. Dinner party.

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Speaker 1: I had sent out twenty email, twenty text messages and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: whoever wants to come over and smoke a cigar, and

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Speaker 1: I won't say who it was, it wouldn't be fair

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Speaker 1: to them. But I invited Wayne, and Wayne showed up

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Speaker 1: late and it was dark when we were sitting out

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Speaker 1: around the fire smoking cigars and drinking and Wayne comes

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Speaker 1: in late. I suspect he's late to everything, and he

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Speaker 1: comes trolling up late and doesn't announce his arrival, and

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Speaker 1: everybody there knew who he was. And so there's a

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Speaker 1: whisper that goes around. And then one of the people

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Speaker 1: there has been a subject, fairly or unfairly, it's been

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Speaker 1: on who you asked of Wayne's stories over the years,

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Speaker 1: and so we're going around doing introductions, and it was

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Speaker 1: clear that this other person was no fan of Wayne,

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Speaker 1: although they've kind of buried the hatchet. But I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably what it's like to be Wayne Finot, is

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Speaker 1: that wherever you go, there might be somebody inside there

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Speaker 1: that you've done an expos a that maybe you've forgotten about,

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Speaker 1: that really really wants to kill you right now.

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Speaker 5: I've been in rooms where probably a dozen people totally

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Speaker 5: hated me and some of the others feared me, which

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Speaker 5: is what I prefer. Yeah, if I had my choice, Look,

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Speaker 5: look when you when you choose the career I chose,

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Speaker 5: and when you do investigative journalism like the way it

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Speaker 5: used to be before it died, you were going to

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Speaker 5: make enemies, right. People will love you one minute and

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Speaker 5: they will hate you the next when you're in there,

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Speaker 5: When you're in there pudding, they don't like it. I

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Speaker 5: did one or two stories on police during the years

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Speaker 5: that were I guess we're negative, right, And you think

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Speaker 5: I was on this campaign and I hated cops. I

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Speaker 5: did stories on school districts. People thought I hated teachers.

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Speaker 5: I did stories on you know, bribery in the HISD

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Speaker 5: programs that bought in immigrant teachers right, and learned that

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Speaker 5: their degrees were all falsified. And I was attacked as

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Speaker 5: because I was attacking Hispanic people. I can't keep up

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Speaker 5: with all of the reasons that people think I do things.

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Speaker 5: But I have maintained my Craig Michael in the sense

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Speaker 5: that I do what I think is the right thing

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Speaker 5: to do. I don't fire a shot unless I believe

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Speaker 5: in the shot.

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Speaker 1: Well. I've had people over the years told me because

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Speaker 1: they hear me say something nice about you and the

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Speaker 1: professional respect I have for you and they'll tell me

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Speaker 1: what an SOB you are, and I'll say, look, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to like the guy, but one thing you

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Speaker 1: do have to admire is he's fearless in the sense

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Speaker 1: that that a kama CAUs he is fearless, But he's fearless.

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Speaker 1: And I really like people that have the strength of

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Speaker 1: their convictions and who cannot be intimidated. One thing you

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Speaker 1: guys say about the dude, he can't be intimidated. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what you do now and will work backward

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Speaker 1: to your days at KTRH. Really the high point of

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Speaker 1: your career when you were at ktr's, But let's talk

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Speaker 1: about what you do now. So if somebody goes to

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Speaker 1: I subscribe to your to your YouTube channel, I really

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Speaker 1: enjoy it because one of the things about you is

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Speaker 1: that you're an entertaining storyteller. The other thing is that

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Speaker 1: you expose allegations of corruption and insider dealing and brother

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Speaker 1: in law deals, whether it's a small town or big city,

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Speaker 1: and you go after people. You don't hold back. How

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Speaker 1: did it come to pass when you left thirteen that

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Speaker 1: you started Deltaphino Media. Did you look at other stations,

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Speaker 1: did you look at other opportunities or did you say

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Speaker 1: I want to be my own boss.

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Speaker 5: No, Because I was a really high paid feel for reporters,

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Speaker 5: high paid guy. I mean, the days used to be

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Speaker 5: that the important TV players would make three, four or

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Speaker 5: five hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 5: They make a small fraction of that now, okay, which

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Speaker 5: is part of the reason that the industry is dying,

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Speaker 5: like local television is dying, which is a horrible thing

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Speaker 5: for communities. But I began to realize probably seven years

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Speaker 5: before I left, that the lawyers were getting more and

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Speaker 5: more involved and making it almost impossible to do what

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Speaker 5: you do. They would come to you and say, well,

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Speaker 5: can't someone else do this first, which was like back

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Speaker 5: in my heyday, was like an outrageous thing to suggest, right,

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Speaker 5: and you have a story that's important to tell people,

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Speaker 5: but you're going to wait for someone else to do it,

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Speaker 5: and it got unworkable. So when I left left that

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Speaker 5: high priced job, I was looking for what the next

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Speaker 5: step was, and I thought that maybe the next step

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Speaker 5: was helping people package investigations do a lot of the

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Speaker 5: legwork that the TV stations didn't have to do as much. Right.

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Speaker 5: That was not a smart thing for me to do

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Speaker 5: because the reality is people want content, they want their

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Speaker 5: stories told, and so more and more became obvious that

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Speaker 5: you have to create a content creation company and just

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Speaker 5: start doing your own thing the way you used to

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Speaker 5: do it. So we're hired by people, hired by companies,

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Speaker 5: or hired by politicians, whired by all kinds of folks,

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Speaker 5: and people will question their motives for hiring you. The

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Speaker 5: reality is there's only two ways to do investigative journalism anymore.

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Speaker 5: When is the non profit model you find some billionaire

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Speaker 5: Michael like you to fund it or do what I did,

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Speaker 5: but I'm the only one really doing it. Is a

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Speaker 5: full profit model where we are hired, paved like a

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Speaker 5: law room would be paid and reinvestigate, and if we

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Speaker 5: decided it to editorially correct, we publish it.

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Speaker 2: We are going to be changing the name of the

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Speaker 2: Golf of Mexico to the Golf of Michael Vary, which

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Speaker 2: has a beautiful lay.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is rained old fields. I've said this on

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Speaker 1: the air before about what you do. It's really no

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Speaker 1: different than what James O'Keefe does. There are other fit

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Speaker 1: Nick Shirley, you know the Somali fraud in Mogadis, Minnesota

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Speaker 1: that was exposed, and the scale and scope of it

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Speaker 1: in the anecdotal cases it proved it were from a

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Speaker 1: twenty three year old kid with an iPhone. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's possible you just happen to have the chops of

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Speaker 1: a guy that was the top investigator journalist for decades.

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Speaker 1: But there are people doing this work now on their own.

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Speaker 5: One of the.

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Speaker 1: Criticisms of you will be it has been, I've heard it,

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Speaker 1: is that you're a paid journalist. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: that necessarily sticks. I don't know if people care, But

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Speaker 1: how do you respond to that? You do have to

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Speaker 1: get paid, and you do often go in because someone

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Speaker 1: says that their opponent's doing awful things. You do a

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Speaker 1: story that they're allegedly doing awful things. What is your

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Speaker 1: reaction to, Oh, he's just a hard gun.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. So look, we're clearly hired, right, and clearly there

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Speaker 5: are ethical challenges right in the sense that you know,

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Speaker 5: people will hire you and say Michael Berry did X right,

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Speaker 5: and you'll look at Michael Berry and try to find

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Speaker 5: X and you just don't find it right. And so

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Speaker 5: you often had to go back to clients and say

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Speaker 5: we ran down that trail, and it's a dead end.

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Speaker 5: I ain't ring for anyone I've ensued. I was like

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Speaker 5: the ABC legals a propect matter of the year once

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Speaker 5: because I've ensued so much, so I've been sued dozens

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Speaker 5: of times. I'm not going to risk my company and

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Speaker 5: my credibility in reporting something that I don't firmly believe

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Speaker 5: is true or that has been made by a credible allegation.

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Speaker 5: We're investigating a suicide in Liberty County that the family

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Speaker 5: doesn't think it was a suicide, and turns out that

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Speaker 5: the woman was having an affair with someone in the

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Speaker 5: Liberty County Sheriff's office, and they worked the case right.

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Speaker 5: That screwed up. We investigate all kinds of stuff. We

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Speaker 5: do political stuff, we do crime stuff, we do family

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Speaker 5: law stuff. We do a lot of that. I mean,

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Speaker 5: we're all over the place, Michael, because quite honestly, as

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Speaker 5: I told you privately, if I was just doing public

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Speaker 5: corruption in small towns, I be in a week. I

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Speaker 5: have eleven employees because it takes time to investigate. You

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Speaker 5: mentioned Nick Shirley real quick. So Nick Shirley had the

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Speaker 5: benefit of a whistleblower who had done a bunch of research, right,

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Speaker 5: and said go to the Leering Daycare Center. You'll see

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Speaker 5: their sciencement spell over there. Right. So all Nick Shirley

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Speaker 5: really did was go to the place that he was

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Speaker 5: told to go to. In Harris County for instance, in Houston,

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Speaker 5: for those Subsidonialharas County, biggest, one of the biggest counties in

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Speaker 5: the country. They fight you on every single request you make.

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Speaker 5: Everyone Okay, the laws are screwed up over public records.

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Speaker 5: I'm a fundamentalist. We pay for all these people, we

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Speaker 5: pay for all this prap. We should have a fundamental

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Speaker 5: right to see what over the hell we want to

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Speaker 5: That's my view.

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Speaker 1: Yes, in the sense that people don't understand anything in

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Speaker 1: the public domain should be reviewable by the public. The

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Speaker 1: transparency as justice, Brandeis said. Brandeis said, sunlight is the

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Speaker 1: best disinfected if you open things up to be reviewed

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Speaker 1: and investigated and you put these you know people, computer

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Speaker 1: people now but used to citizen activists to review things.

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Speaker 1: That will keep the process more honest than anything else.

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Speaker 1: That was the basis confetter of election returns campaign finance

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Speaker 1: returns is that people won't take money if they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be able to defend against it in the public domain.

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Speaker 1: It's not necessarily true, but it is one safeguard you

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Speaker 1: can build into the process. So, but here's the problem.

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Speaker 5: But here's the problem. All over the country, in every

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Speaker 5: small town, every city, government people will try to find

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Speaker 5: ways to keep the public from seeing their stuff. And

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Speaker 5: unless you have people in journaling them or even a

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Speaker 5: local guide fly, I don't have to insult them, but

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Speaker 5: you know, troublemaker, local troublemaker. Unless you have those people

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Speaker 5: doing the work, who does the work Nobody? That's the problem.

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Speaker 5: We're running out of people that do their work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And what worries me and you and I have

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Speaker 1: had this conversation, is that we're running out of because

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Speaker 1: it's not monetizable anymore, primary news reporters. And that's why

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Speaker 1: I don't jump on stories the day of a lot

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Speaker 1: of people like to do breaking news. I think that's

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Speaker 1: dangerous because the breaking news used to be a reporter

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Speaker 1: who might have their own biases and prejudice, prejudices. Now

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Speaker 1: the reporter, if there is one who's a primary reporter,

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Speaker 1: is probably some kid with ten minutes of experience, and

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Speaker 1: he's not in any position to report on what he's doing,

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Speaker 1: So you need some time to kind of say, all right,

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Speaker 1: what really happened, not what's being reported, because that first

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Speaker 1: round of reporting is not going to be very good.

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Speaker 1: But as you know, Wayne, Wayne Delta Fino's our guests,

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Speaker 1: there's no money in I'm reporting anymore, so we're all

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Speaker 1: sitting around. The money's in commentary what I do. So

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Speaker 1: everybody wants somebody else to do the primary so that

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Speaker 1: we can get it being lazy, have it come across

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Speaker 1: our computer, and then offer opinions on it. People don't

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Speaker 1: want to know what the news is anymore. They want

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Speaker 1: to know what you think about the news.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, it's the average reporter, the average dailer reporter

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Speaker 5: or ngemizations anywhere in the country right may spend three

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Speaker 5: or four hours on a story, okay, which is why

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Speaker 5: I always advise people talk to the reporter early. There's

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Speaker 5: no comment nonsense.

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Speaker 1: I used to love people that said.

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Speaker 5: They'll come in because it allowed me to spend three

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Speaker 5: and a half minutes meet on someone and they didn't

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Speaker 5: say they said no comment. Okay, So I always tell

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Speaker 5: people get it early because the narratives get formed. You're

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Speaker 5: talking about you know, young people that don't even know

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Speaker 5: the context of the city they live in. Right, There's

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Speaker 5: very few of those those stables a veteran reporters anymore,

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Speaker 5: So we don't know crap about the story. So the

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Speaker 5: first person that talks to them will sometimes affect where

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Speaker 5: they go, what they do. If they have three or

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Speaker 5: four hours, it's probably including lunch, Michael, So they're not

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Speaker 5: going to get anything other than the surface of the story.

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Speaker 5: Today and TV news, local TV news, it's the dead

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Speaker 5: people and the press conferences that get the media to cover.

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Speaker 5: And most times they were even sending reporters to the

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Speaker 5: press conferences, so you're relying on someone to watch the

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Speaker 5: tape and then regurgitated out and so they even have

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Speaker 5: less time. That's the biggest problem I see with especially

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Speaker 5: local news.

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Speaker 1: What I don't understand, and I'm asking you to speak

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Speaker 1: against yourself, but maybe you can talk about the business

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Speaker 1: of it. What I don't understand. If I'm a planet's

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Speaker 1: attorney and I'm filing a lawsuit against Corporation X for

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Speaker 1: a product liability, which is trouble damages that can be

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Speaker 1: big cases or an awful thing that they allowed to happen,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why every planet's attorney in town doesn't

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Speaker 1: hire you to You know, what people don't realize is

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Speaker 1: whether it's Busby or used to be John Eddy Williams

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Speaker 1: or any of these John O'Quinn, these high powered planet's

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Speaker 1: attorneys jojamail Is. They first come and bust you across

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Speaker 1: the jaw, and then they go, hell, you want to negotiate.

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Speaker 1: It's that first bit of Sometimes people negotiate a settlement

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Speaker 1: for the sole purpose, even if they don't think they're wrong,

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Speaker 1: just to make the pain end. I'm surprised more folks

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Speaker 1: don't hire you on the front end to tell their

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Speaker 1: story because you're so good at it. Is there a reason?

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Speaker 1: Are you just too expensive? Is that the reason? Because

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Speaker 1: if I was a planet attorney, that's what I do.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're not cheap, but I would tell you that.

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Speaker 5: And this is not a swipe at all lawyers. But

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Speaker 5: I do investigate lawyers, So what the hell? A lot

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Speaker 5: of lawyers look like me, like you, probably are egocentric. Right,

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Speaker 5: They want to control the pie, so they get as

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Speaker 5: big of a chunk as they can, right. I think

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Speaker 5: that is a lot of the driver. I think the

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Speaker 5: mistake they make is that I think public pressure is

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Speaker 5: far more significant than legal pressure and less Johnson and

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Speaker 5: Johnson's stuff as an example, right, he had so many losses.

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Speaker 5: They paid billions of dollars literally for cancer causing stuff

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Speaker 5: right in their product. Yet there's very little publicity about it.

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Speaker 5: I would argue that a campaign to expose it. I

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Speaker 5: got your stories right now on stanting optical right, which

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Speaker 5: is an eyeglass here, they pay it. They are going

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Speaker 5: to a judge to say make him take it down. Okay.

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Speaker 5: They are more worried about the public pressure than they

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Speaker 5: are about the pape of.

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Speaker 1: Lawyers in town. A conversation with Wayne Doltrafino. He's made

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Speaker 1: a lot of people mad, He's entertained to a lot

432
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: of people. He's exposed a lot of people. He's been

433
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: around a long time. I find him to be a

434
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: fascinating character. Wayne Oltrafino is our guest. I'm not trying

435
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: to drum up business for you got all the business.

436
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: I'm more surprised because if that was my racket, I'd

437
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: want to be the best at it, and I would

438
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: want the other side to understand that not only have

439
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: you done wrong, and there's going to be a cost

440
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: to make my client whole. But the public should know

441
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: what you've done wrong. I'm a big believer in shaming,

442
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: and the way the public is going to know it

443
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: is Dultcha. Female's going to create a very slick video.

444
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: He's going to be standing there sounding like he just

445
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: smoked smoked eight cigarettes asking you these questions. You're gonna

446
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: look like a fool, and then we're gonna blast that

447
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: out to everybody who will watch it, and nobody wants that.

448
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: You know who's done that for years? Quant Alex did that,

449
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: Jesse Jackson did that, and they were often wrong. But

450
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: your stuff comes with the credibility of this is a

451
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: guy that has been on Channel thirteen, the number one

452
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: news station with Schera and Marvin and Dave for all

453
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: those years. I wouldn't want you outside my door saying, hey,

454
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: are you gonna answer our questions or not?

455
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 5: It's not good news for those people. I think. I

456
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 5: think some lawyers have understood it. Some lawyers don't. We

457
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 5: have done some videos for lawyers internally that they could

458
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 5: use in mediation, and a number of cases have settled

459
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 5: because they say, this is what is going to happen

460
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 5: to you. Right when it's packaged in a seven eight

461
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 5: nine minute video day in the life of somebody, it's

462
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 5: very harmful to them. I have strongly urged lawyers to

463
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 5: be more aggressive on the front end because it saves

464
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 5: their money on the back end.

465
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: Okay, I got to say most of your stuff, and

466
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: I've told you I watch everything you post. I think

467
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: you're very smart about the fact that you post things

468
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: in bite sized pieces, which is five to thirteen minutes,

469
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: so that I can get in and get out. Most

470
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: people the subject is interesting, but it's just too long,

471
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: and nobody has time for that, especially in today's world.

472
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: And so if it's you know, before I go to sleep,

473
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: I will always every night, after I'm finished with show

474
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: prep and everything else, I need something to decompress, I'll

475
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: go over and I'll say, let's see if Donlta Finoes

476
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: put something up, and I will just I would just

477
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: watch the storytelling. I love the concept of storytelling and

478
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: how you do it. I think is as good as

479
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: anybody in the way that you do it kind of

480
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: an advocacy journalism. And the length, first of all, is

481
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: very effective. But the other thing is you use clever things.

482
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: I remember you did a story one time. You chase

483
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: the guy down the street. But in the middle of

484
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: one of those stories, you had cartoons and things. You

485
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: had one this past week of digging a hole, and

486
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: you quoted Will Rogers if you find that you're digging

487
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: a hole, if you're digging yourself into a hole, stop

488
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: and you quoted the great lines you had Nate Bargatsy

489
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: and different things. I think that's very clever storytelling that

490
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: nobody else seems to be doing that. But let me

491
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: ask you this. Most of your pieces tend to revolve

492
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: around local governments in smaller towns ripping off the consumer,

493
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: not doing their job, taking money that should be for

494
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: road paving, picking on someone who's just an average citizen

495
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: because they want to take his property, or you know,

496
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: a bad divorce case or whatever. How do you get

497
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: paid on those deals? Because good government doesn't have a lobbyist.

498
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 5: So I'm usually on the wrong side of those fights.

499
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 5: I have a lot of cases where we're going up

500
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 5: against billionaires, billionaires right, who if they want, can splash

501
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 5: us like a bug. Right. But I don't, you know,

502
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 5: I don't really care about that stuff. But that is,

503
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 5: you know, sometimes people hire us. I've got people from

504
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 5: the small towns who are who I thought would just

505
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 5: you know, country folk reading neck folks come in and

506
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 5: telling me a great story, right, And it turns out

507
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 5: that there are no richest crap and want to fight

508
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 5: at dial. There was a guy who Rodney Pauld, who

509
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 5: was a commissioner in Angelia County, who came into my

510
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 5: office years ago and told us a great story about

511
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 5: all the crubs he was seeing. And he walked out

512
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 5: and I said, man, I'd love to be in that case,

513
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 5: but I don't think he's got any money. Turns out

514
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 5: he had tens of millions, right, and we raised a

515
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 5: war or that resulted in the DA resigning. Right. The

516
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 5: problem is, Michael, it's the death of local newspapers in

517
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 5: these small towns that is most problematic. They either have

518
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 5: to depend on the government to fund them to advertising,

519
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 5: or they're like chamber of commerce papers. I wanted to

520
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 5: so many investigations in the Galves and Million News. Every

521
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 5: time they called me. I know they're calling me to

522
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 5: give me crap about something, right, But I talk to

523
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 5: them anyway because it's entertaining and nobody reads the damn thing.

524
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 5: But it's fun. But the local papers of these towns

525
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 5: become chamber of commerce mouthpieces. The other problem is all

526
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 5: these small town newspapers, most of them have been gobbled

527
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 5: up by bigger papers like the Chronicle, right, And so

528
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 5: you're not getting that small town advocacy that it needs

529
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 5: to happen anymore. The ones that do it don't last

530
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 5: long because they pardon my French, kiss off the big boys.

531
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I grew up in an era of

532
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: I practically worshiped people who would be referred to as

533
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: a gadfly. And you know, in these small towns throughout America,

534
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: before the national corporate ownership, before Hirst really went on

535
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: a consolidation spree, you would have the local guy who

536
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: owned the paper and lived off the paper, and he

537
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: was the editor, and he was a pompous, arrogant ass,

538
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: but he cared about exposing corruption and things being done right,

539
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: and he had a certain power in town, and that

540
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 1: was the power of the press. He bought Ink by

541
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: the barrel, and I think you've seen mostly the death

542
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: of that, and you're right. What you're left with is

543
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: a paper that is basically a thinly veiled chamber of

544
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: commerce gloss piece. And they don't dare want to take

545
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: on people because it might affect the revenues, and they're

546
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: living on the edge anyway. And that's unfortunately, because I

547
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: do think that that affects the quality of government in

548
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: local communities. You've had no end of gold to mine

549
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: of just bad stories in little towns that I thought

550
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: of as wonderful, idyllic places to live, and yet you

551
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: exposed corruption. Give me an example of one that really

552
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: hit you as my goodness, this is over the top.

553
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 5: So I've been in a lot of places right as

554
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 5: you know. I think South Pottery Island is a corp

555
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: show right where the officials own the bars in the

556
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 5: entertainment district. Instead a lot of money in enriching themselves,

557
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 5: they screw with people who try to open up competing businesses.

558
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 5: They have cut off the public entrance to the bay,

559
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 5: which some have suggested to me, not proven, that drugs

560
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 5: may be coming in that way. That's an example. In

561
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 5: Freeport and a lot of these towns, I'm seeing stark

562
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 5: racial divisions, okay, and that's that's a problem. There was

563
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 5: a case I did have a little town up north

564
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 5: to here where it clearly was a black white thing.

565
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 5: You know, in a lot of these small towns in Texas,

566
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 5: they have elected the first black mayors, right, which is

567
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 5: like who cares except that those mayors then in some

568
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 5: cases try to punish the white folk, right, And a

569
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 5: lot of people are afraid to say it, but it's true.

570
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: It just is what it is, right, And so you

571
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 5: have those divisions you have in small towns. You have

572
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 5: the local church, maybe the local Baptist church, right, if

573
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 5: you go to that church, then you're connective, or the Masons. Right.

574
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 5: Every town has its own sort of storyline. I will

575
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 5: tell you they are not used to a guy like me.

576
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 5: I went to San Angelo, who had see in their

577
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 5: garbage contracts, and I chased the mayor and that video

578
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 5: got hundreds of thousands of views, real views, right, not

579
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 5: the fake views, because they never they don't get that,

580
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 5: they don't see that, and there's a real market for it.

581
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 5: I believe. The sad thing is, Michael is regular folks

582
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 5: can't hire us, they can't afford us. And that's what's

583
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 5: really sad. The day of fighting the big boys for

584
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 5: some you know, a regular person is over.

585
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 1: It's over. We'll continue talking to Wayne Delchafino coming up