WEBVTT - A Chat with the PGA Tour's Setup Czar 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.320 And when I find my ball. 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:11.080 In a bright egg Friday egg, Frida Egg Friday, fridag 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.239 bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.080 the course. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.280 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.120 I am your host, Andy Johnson. We've got a great 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.200 show today. I'm excited about it. Actually, we had Gary Young, 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.559 he's one of the PGA Tour's chief referees, on to 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.040 talk all things PGA Tour set up. That's me and 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.680 Joseph Lamania talking with Gary. It was enlightening. There was 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.200 a lot of stuff I learned from it about how 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.800 they go about setting up a golf course for a 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.640 PGA Tour event. And then we talked about some of 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.040 the hot topics TiO, pace of play, preferred lies, all 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.960 sorts of stuff. So it was really it was fun 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.360 chat with Gary. I appreciate him coming on and you know, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.959 answer and answering questions, answering questions that an idiot like 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.759 me has about what he does for his job. But 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.600 before we get to that, we got to do in 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.040 and out Joseph, what are you in on this week? 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:32.880 Andy? 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:37.679 I am in on signature events with a cut. This 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.880 week at the Genesis Invitational, we're going to see the 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.760 first signature event the PGA Tour's new model with a 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.320 limited field and a cut. So field of about eighty players, 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.320 they're going to cut down to the top fifty and 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.000 ties after two days. I think that is a wonderful 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.680 recipe for the modern golf product, and I would love 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.080 to see more of these signature events limited fields that 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.480 don't have a cut implement a cut. I think it 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.920 adds something. It's additive. It introduces some competitiveness to the 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.960 event and makes it not feel like a WGC where 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.960 guys are climbing from T sixty one to T forty 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.280 eight on Sunday that really don't need to be on 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.800 the golf course. So I think people are really gonna 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.440 like that cut line this week at Riviera, and it's 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.360 something I'm excited about. I think the signature event should 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:27.760 have a cut line. So that's what I'm in on. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.960 I almost went with this also, This was almost what 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.760 I was in on, but I completely agree the other thing. 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.680 The other advantage we're seeing it this week as the 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:43.040 waste management is barreling into the Super Bowl. As we 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.880 record this segment of this podcast, it is it is on. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.200 I thought this was gonna be over. I thought we 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.360 were going to be done with this. But you know, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.240 when you have a big field in eighty players on 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.760 a weekend is a big field. That's what they cut 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.400 to on the PGA Tour, they cut actually off into 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.440 less than eighty players. So the signature events often feature 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.840 more players of the weekend than a regular event. So 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.320 cutting it down to fifty it gives you a lot 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.600 of flexibility. You can withstand weather delay, you can move 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.040 tea times around easier. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:16.560 You know. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.120 One of the things that makes the product way better, 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.200 and Gary touched on this is t time spacing and 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.760 number of players. So if you could go to Twosome's 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.160 and space it out twelve minutes, it makes the pace 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.000 of play the product better. This is a big I 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.400 completely agree one thing I'm in on, and this is 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.440 reactive to yesterday's telecast. It's just trying new things with 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.040 the telecasts. I thought that Kissner and Smiley on sixteen 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.320 were wonderful. It was just like a nice different thing, 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.640 and I think the key to this is not being 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.240 locked in and can in like they're gonna look at 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.040 this and be like, we can do this all over 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.400 the place. We should do this everywhere, and it's that's 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.240 not the takeaway here. The key here is that this 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.720 worked really well at this event because it fit this event, 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.680 Like the whole atmosphere of sixteen lends itself so well 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:19.039 to that that little broadcast snippet like them sitting there 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.840 talking it through, talking about the atmosphere, all the things 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.320 that went into that, it works so well right there. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.880 The key to this idea is finding something like that 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.760 at every event across the board, and it's not always 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.400 going to be the same thing, so that that style 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.160 might work well a few other places on the PGA 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.040 tour where there's holes that have a similar atmosphere or 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:48.159 stakes you know, that tie to it. The other key 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:52.839 is finding different formats of that type of idea, like 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.920 a different broadcast, different formats of it that fit, you know, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:03.120 another specific of at riviera. Maybe it's people sitting and 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.760 talking about ten or another hole. Right, just change it up, 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.159 try new stuff. But I loved the initiative to try 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:11.719 something new. 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.000 I agree with you Andy, not to be negative. I 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.640 think there was a little sacrifice on some of the 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:20.920 shots from the players in contention, So I had a 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.800 little bit of a problem with that on Saturday Night. 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.760 But Smiley and Kevin Kissner themselves were great, and I 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.000 loved that feed and seeing all those shots on sixteen, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.520 So I think there's a balance there, like also need 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.880 to show the shots from the players in contention, But 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.799 I totally agree with you, that was a great feed. 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.599 I think it was a unique situation also. I mean, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.400 like Saturday of that event's always going to be about sixteen, 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.920 but there's also the unique situation of like the weather delays, Right, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:50.440 what are you out on? 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.880 This is going to be an old person yelling at 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.080 cloud take Andy, but you're not even old. I know 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.760 that's what's crazy about it. But I am out on 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:06.760 celebrating drunkenness, specifically at the Waste Management Phoenix Open. These 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.480 videos of people like falling over drunk on the cart path. 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.080 I think this year's Phoenix Open got a little out 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.520 of control. And when you kind of the brand of 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.320 the Phoenix Open, I think they do a lot of 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.800 things right. So my favorite events of the year, but 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.000 the more that the rowdiness is celebrated. I think it 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.800 attracts a certain type of person and things maybe got 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.320 a little bit out of control this year. I love 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.240 a lot about the Phoenix Open. I've been I was drinking. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.039 I'm all for it, but I think some of the 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.760 like the viral clips of people peeing on themselves and stuff. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.839 Maybe if we cut back on some of that, we 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.080 won't have as many fans yelling at players and taken 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.680 away from some of the events. So I'm out on that. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:47.479 What do you think about that? 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.039 Andy, I've thought about this a lot, and I just 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:55.000 think this is just in general, the natural progression of 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.960 the way these things work, right, is that you get 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:05.000 an identity. Everybody finds out how cool it is, and 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.599 it's super fun. It's a party atmosphere. It's unique to 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.160 the tour, and the tour leaned into it. And I 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.680 don't have like a problem with them leaning into it. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.880 But this is the natural progression of how these things work. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.000 I went to the University of Illinois. It's known for 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:26.320 its unofficial Saint Patrick's Day Party. It was a big 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.880 deal when I was there. I think it's still a 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.320 big deal now, but it was like this day, it 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.360 was a Friday, everybody just got wasted and it you know, listen, 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.480 I partaked, I enjoyed it. But every year you're there, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:40.880 it gets a little bit worse because you get more 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.880 and more people come from in from out of town. More. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.080 It becomes less and less of a homegrown type event. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.520 And I think that's one of the things that happens here, 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.800 is like with this, with the with waste management, it's 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.040 just evolved into this and and what it is is 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.280 that people come in from all over the country to 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.320 party and celebrate, and it's less about like this is 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.840 Phoenix's event, right. It's people that come in there. It's 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.600 their expectation. They treat it like a bachelor party day. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.080 And you know, this is just the natural progression that's 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.880 going to happen. And it happens with all sorts of things. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.360 It happens with golf course design, where you know, once 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.360 you say, oh, we're going to start, you know, narrowing 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.680 fairways and growing rough like one course does it, one 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.560 course does it a little bit more, one course does 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.880 it a little bit more. This is the way society works. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.840 So I don't know where you go from here. If 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.960 you're the waste management, it clearly did. I had some 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.120 friends that were on site, had an awesome time, but 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.199 they they're like, you know, they cut off alcohol sales 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.240 that I talked to. One of them talked to a 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.080 police officer that said that like one hundred and thirty 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.160 people were taken out on stretchers. I don't know how 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.640 you rein this back in because the PGA tour has 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.120 leaned so far into what it is that it seems 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.520 very hard. I don't know what to do. I'm glad 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.720 I don't have to decide this, but yes, this is 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.560 just what happens. The things that are deemed cool is 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.920 that this is they get they spiral out of control. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:10.640 That was a long winded answer. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:12.480 No, Look, I agree with you. I think a lot 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.960 of things about it are great, right, like even having 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.839 a party identity is fine. But I think it's gotten 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.360 a little out of control, and I agree with you. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:20.920 I don't know exactly what you do to reign it 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:22.840 back in, But all right, Andy, what are you out on? 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:30.840 I you know, I so respect low scorers, I love them, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.360 but I just am gonna say that the number the 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.320 scorers in the fifties no longer has the same cachet 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.560 that it used to. We saw a fifty seven from 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:46.800 Crystobauld Dell Solaire on the corn Ferry Tour this week. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.959 We've just seen, you know, like this year has been 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.400 low score after low score after low scorer. Obviously Joaquin 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.040 Neeman shot fifty nine the week before on Live Tour. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.840 You know sixties that we saw sixties from Wyndham Clark 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.200 at Pebble Beach. It's just not it's it's like saying, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.719 you know, I would use this to to like, these 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.360 are major League Baseball records that are being broken on 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.400 a little league field, you know. So I don't think 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.520 he had hit much more than a dgend any hole. 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:17.120 You know. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:22.240 The the I guess the ability for a golf course 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.040 is to defend themselves against the moundern player or at 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:29.520 an all time low you know, some equipment modifications and 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.800 rollbacked or coming. I don't really think it's going to 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.439 do much of anything. This might be just the new 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.640 era and I'm just out on it being a huge 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.600 deal because I just think it is. It is what 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:46.760 it is in today's era of golf. Your thoughts, I 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.480 agree with you, Andy. The Corn Ferry Tour ones were 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.680 a bit of a special circumstance because it was a 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.640 short golf course at altitude. But a score is just 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.760 a number on a card at this point. Getting put 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.480 on fifty nine watch that used to be rare fun 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.439 and now it means basically nothing. Like I don't get 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.680 excited by it anymore. I think the baseball analogy's appropriate. Also, 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.280 NBA players scoring fifty, like, we've seen a huge increase 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.440 in that this year to where it's no longer as 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.480 noteworthy when somebody puts up fifty points. So yeah, scoring 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:19.360 is all relative. I don't get excited by it either. 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.120 But I think, especially this year, you're going to see 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.960 a lot of low scores, like I think we're in 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.520 for over the next year or two some really low 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.560 scores until there's a rollback. And I agree with you 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.840 that even once once the rollback happens, it's not going 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:34.800 to have that significant of an impact. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:36.400 So I'm with you. I'm out on that too. 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.160 All right, let's get to Gary Young, But first let's 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.800 talk about our friends from the USGA and the the 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.880 USGA Greed Section, which has been helping golf facilities provide 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.719 better playing conditions for over one hundred years. When you 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.160 schedule a course consulting visit with the USGA agronomist, you'll 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.000 get more than just an expert in grond me. You'll 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.120 get a trusted partner who's familiar with your region and 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.880 your course conditions. USGA agronomus can help you formulate a 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.599 plan to communicate to your course leadership, staff and golfers, 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.400 and they can also help you plan and prioritize your 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:17.560 resources more effectively. USGA consultants can provide an unbiased assessment 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.760 of your course maintenance and reservation needs, so you can 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.200 assure you're getting the trusted advice you need to make 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:28.240 key maintenance decisions. Book a course consulting visit by March 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.280 thirty first, and you'll receive five hundred dollars off your 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:36.600 first visit. That's not an inconsequential amount of money. So 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.439 that's five hundred dollars off your first visit. And for 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.120 more information on how to schedule a visit, go to 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:48.559 USGA dot org slash green section dash CCS. That's USGA 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:53.360 dot org slash green section dash CCS. All right, thanks 0:12:53.400 --> 0:13:04.960 to the USGA, and let's get to Gary Young. All right, Gary, 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.800 thank you for coming on. I would love to hear 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.439 about how someone becomes a rules official. How do you 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.200 become the head referee for PGA Tour event? How does 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.800 that even come about? How does your life take you here? 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.320 Yeah, it's probably probably well, first of all, thanks for 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.840 having me on. It's probably the most common question that 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.640 we get asked by fans that are walking by and 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.000 see the rules official sticker on the front of the 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.520 golf cart. They're always like, how do you become one 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.440 of those? That sounds like something I'm interested in? I said, yeah, 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.680 it looks like fun right now, but it has its moments. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.240 You know, everyone on our team comes from various backgrounds. 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.440 Number one, most of us have either work have either 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.120 been golf professionals at some point in the past, whether 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.040 we were PGA of America members. Couple members of our 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:05.600 team were actually members of the PGA Tour who later 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:11.000 in their career decided to pursue being rules official, which 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.400 is really I think that's important. It's always great to 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.640 have a player's point of view on our committee. To 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:22.040 someone like Mark Duce Bobbik, who does our television rules 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.600 analyst role. And Mark was actually a middle linebacker for 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.440 the Minnesota Vikings. How about that. So, you know it's 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.720 something that just post football career, he really dedicated himself. 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:42.360 He got involved in state and section associations, got a 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:47.920 lot of experience in administration of golf, got educated on 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.240 the rules, long extensive education on the rules, and eventually 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.880 was hired later by Mark Russell. So, you know, we 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.600 have a very very bad grounds that everyone comes from. 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.200 I think that's what makes us special. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.240 Do you guys? Is there like a test? You know, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.600 financial advisors have to take a series seven? Is a 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.600 Is there some sort of tests that you have to 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.840 study for and then upkeep at certain times Like I'm 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.480 just that's something I've always wondered. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.200 Yeah, absolutely, yes. We all started out by having to 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:31.000 score very well on the USGA PGA of America. They 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:35.040 do a joint rules workshop. You intend to workshop for 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.560 about a week. It's a very extensive dive into the 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.640 rules of golf and how to interpret the rules of golf, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:45.400 and then you take one hundred question exam and have 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:50.360 to score exceptionally well on that to be considered so 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:55.080 and then also it's just continually, like any other profession, 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:59.520 the continuing education and we are constantly doing a deep 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:04.000 dive into the rules of golf as they happen across 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.600 all the major tours. We share with one another, rulings 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.680 that we have, we talk about them in depth so 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.000 that we have a better understanding of everything. 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:18.280 Do you have a favorite obscure rule or ruling, like, 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.720 is there one that that sticks out like that? 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:27.320 That's literally I was gonna ask Andy, meaning about the 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.120 if you have a golf ball in your pocket and 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.560 you mark your ball, and you put it the ball 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.440 that you just marked in your pocket and then marked 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.600 the exact same way. Gary, correct me if I'm wrong, 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.000 but if you're not sure which one you were using, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:41.800 I believe that is a lost ball. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.400 And that was I think that comes more into play 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.720 when we have a ball in play right right, and 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.480 we hit one and we haven't marked it, and we 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.800 get out there and maybe we hit a provisional that's 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:58.200 the same exact ball, same exact marking. Yeah, that would 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.960 be a situation where if you truly could not tell 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.480 which one was the first one in play, you know 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.479 that particular that first one is deemed to be lost. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.359 And yeah, so it's always a good idea to mark 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.399 your golf balls differently, for sure. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.720 Would you then have to hit a third t shot 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.080 if say you hit a provisional now. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:22.560 In that situation. I'm trying to remember the exact interpretation 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.520 on that one, but I believe the second the second 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.520 ball would become the ball and play. 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.400 But if you can't, if you don't know one, you'd be. 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.280 Hitting your If you couldn't be hit, couldn't tell either, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.679 or you know, you would be hitting your fourth shot 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.720 now from from the fair way. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.000 Yeah, I think I remember reading it within the context 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.040 of marking your ball on the green and like putting 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.120 it in your pocket and then you're not sure because 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:49.919 you have two balls in your pocket. And I was 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.679 just a crazy situation that probably doesn't come up. Do 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:54.879 you have a personal fear obscure one? 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.880 I really don't. I really don't. They are all they 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.320 all have their challenge is at times. So that's why 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.760 we have a committee. And you know, when you're out 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.760 there and you get in a situation like that one 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.640 you just threw at me, I mean, you know, it's 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.439 so weird, it's so unusual for something like that to happen. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.520 I would throw that out to the entire committee for 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.040 everyone's feedback, to make sure that we get the call right. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.760 And as a matter of fact, I would say, okay, guys, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.640 before I close this out this ruling, is there anyone 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.560 else that's thinking differently than what we've just heard, Because 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:37.040 oftentimes there's someone sitting there really thinking about it and 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.359 there's some small little thing that the committee's not thinking about. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.680 So we have had situations like that, and that's why 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.080 it's important that there are eight of us, nine of 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.480 us there at the course. We truly act as a 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:50.560 committee on things. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.480 Well, Gary, when we resperd to PGA Tour setup, who 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.159 all would that entail that? That's a big question I have, 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:04.240 like who all is coordinating maintenance with respect to how 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.960 long the grass should be green speeds? Can you can 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.560 you explain who all within the PGA Tour orbit that 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:12.760 term would encompass. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.120 Yeah. So when we talk about setup, we're talking about 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:21.600 two different things. There is the agronomic setup of the 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.080 golf course, so that would be green speeds, height of 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.000 cut in all of the different areas of the golf course. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.520 And then there's the other portion of setup, which is 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.880 handled that week of the competition. And I can talk 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.040 a little bit about both. So the first part, the 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.640 agronomic setup. That's really something that is set up by 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.440 the chief referee and the advanced rules official for each event. 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.000 So we have a person that travels to the golf 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.560 course a week in advance and his or her job 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.480 is to prepare the golf course for competition. They work 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:04.320 with our ronomist and the local superintendent or director of 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.480 agronomy at a facility and they make sure that everything 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.679 that we have. You know, from years of experience playing 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.159 at a venue, we know what optimal conditions are for 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.520 that particular venue. Maybe the height of cut at three 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.080 inches is perfect for that golf course given the grass type. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.639 Maybe at another place it might be two inches because 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:30.280 it's bermuda grass. And you know, each type of grass 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:35.080 represents a different issue at different heights of cut. Same 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.439 thing with height of fairway, speed of greens, it really 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.520 depends upon the architecture of the golf course. You know 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.280 last week at Pebble Beach, that's a really challenging set 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:51.880 of greens to find quality whole locations. Once the greens 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.000 get above a certain speed, we knew we had big 0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:00.159 wins coming in last week, so we actually backed off 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.800 the green speeds. Our target speed was between eleven and 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.040 a half and twelve. We actually backed it off closer 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:11.080 to just below eleven, which now allows us to go 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:16.639 into some more slopier areas. But again, we were trying 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.880 to get high and dry. We were trying to put 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.520 the whole locations up where moisture wouldn't shut us down 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.320 and we could keep playing golf. So that was the 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.840 bonus of being at lower green speeds. Everyone always thinks, oh, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.480 fast green speeds, that's the challenge, not really, you know, 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.919 if you want to go to some of these really 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.960 quality whole locations on an old golf course, we need 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:41.960 those green speeds to be lower. 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:46.080 Is that a tough conversation just you know, you hear 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.879 PGA tour players talk about when they go to the 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.440 say the Open Championship, and they say always talk about, oh, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:57.600 the greens are slower than I'm used to. There's a period. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:02.119 Is it hard to have a little bit slower greens 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.760 when you have, like I'm thinking in my head, Sedgefield 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.719 as a great example where the greens have is an 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.960 old golf course. It's a Donald Ross design that has 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.160 a lot of slope and it's one of the one 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.040 of the places I feel like you see four footers 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.040 with the most break you'd see anywhere on tour. Is 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:25.760 it a hard thing to accomplish with players that are 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:27.320 used to act speed. 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:32.520 Well, it's an interesting comment because we don't try. We 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:37.040 are definitely not a cookie cutter tour, meaning we're not 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.199 looking to be twelve every week. We're not looking to 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.639 be you know, three inch height of rough. It really 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:48.159 is driven by the architecture of the golf course. You 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.879 mentioned Sedgefield, that's a great example of a very challenging 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.959 set of greens, and we just know historically if we 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:00.480 if we have the green speeds too high, can really 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.560 lose quality whole locations, ones that are going to challenge 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.399 the player on their approach shot to the green. And 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.399 so almost like when we become too fast on a 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.840 set of greens, we tend to have to go towards 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.000