Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 1: In a bright egg Friday egg, Frida Egg Friday, fridag
Speaker 1: bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of
Speaker 1: the course.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast.
Speaker 3: I am your host, Andy Johnson. We've got a great
Speaker 3: show today. I'm excited about it. Actually, we had Gary Young,
Speaker 3: he's one of the PGA Tour's chief referees, on to
Speaker 3: talk all things PGA Tour set up. That's me and
Speaker 3: Joseph Lamania talking with Gary. It was enlightening. There was
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff I learned from it about how
Speaker 3: they go about setting up a golf course for a
Speaker 3: PGA Tour event. And then we talked about some of
Speaker 3: the hot topics TiO, pace of play, preferred lies, all
Speaker 3: sorts of stuff. So it was really it was fun
Speaker 3: chat with Gary. I appreciate him coming on and you know,
Speaker 3: answer and answering questions, answering questions that an idiot like
Speaker 3: me has about what he does for his job. But
Speaker 3: before we get to that, we got to do in
Speaker 3: and out Joseph, what are you in on this week?
Speaker 2: Andy?
Speaker 1: I am in on signature events with a cut. This
Speaker 1: week at the Genesis Invitational, we're going to see the
Speaker 1: first signature event the PGA Tour's new model with a
Speaker 1: limited field and a cut. So field of about eighty players,
Speaker 1: they're going to cut down to the top fifty and
Speaker 1: ties after two days. I think that is a wonderful
Speaker 1: recipe for the modern golf product, and I would love
Speaker 1: to see more of these signature events limited fields that
Speaker 1: don't have a cut implement a cut. I think it
Speaker 1: adds something. It's additive. It introduces some competitiveness to the
Speaker 1: event and makes it not feel like a WGC where
Speaker 1: guys are climbing from T sixty one to T forty
Speaker 1: eight on Sunday that really don't need to be on
Speaker 1: the golf course. So I think people are really gonna
Speaker 1: like that cut line this week at Riviera, and it's
Speaker 1: something I'm excited about. I think the signature event should
Speaker 1: have a cut line. So that's what I'm in on.
Speaker 3: I almost went with this also, This was almost what
Speaker 3: I was in on, but I completely agree the other thing.
Speaker 3: The other advantage we're seeing it this week as the
Speaker 3: waste management is barreling into the Super Bowl. As we
Speaker 3: record this segment of this podcast, it is it is on.
Speaker 3: I thought this was gonna be over. I thought we
Speaker 3: were going to be done with this. But you know,
Speaker 3: when you have a big field in eighty players on
Speaker 3: a weekend is a big field. That's what they cut
Speaker 3: to on the PGA Tour, they cut actually off into
Speaker 3: less than eighty players. So the signature events often feature
Speaker 3: more players of the weekend than a regular event. So
Speaker 3: cutting it down to fifty it gives you a lot
Speaker 3: of flexibility. You can withstand weather delay, you can move
Speaker 3: tea times around easier.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: One of the things that makes the product way better,
Speaker 3: and Gary touched on this is t time spacing and
Speaker 3: number of players. So if you could go to Twosome's
Speaker 3: and space it out twelve minutes, it makes the pace
Speaker 3: of play the product better. This is a big I
Speaker 3: completely agree one thing I'm in on, and this is
Speaker 3: reactive to yesterday's telecast. It's just trying new things with
Speaker 3: the telecasts. I thought that Kissner and Smiley on sixteen
Speaker 3: were wonderful. It was just like a nice different thing,
Speaker 3: and I think the key to this is not being
Speaker 3: locked in and can in like they're gonna look at
Speaker 3: this and be like, we can do this all over
Speaker 3: the place. We should do this everywhere, and it's that's
Speaker 3: not the takeaway here. The key here is that this
Speaker 3: worked really well at this event because it fit this event,
Speaker 3: Like the whole atmosphere of sixteen lends itself so well
Speaker 3: to that that little broadcast snippet like them sitting there
Speaker 3: talking it through, talking about the atmosphere, all the things
Speaker 3: that went into that, it works so well right there.
Speaker 3: The key to this idea is finding something like that
Speaker 3: at every event across the board, and it's not always
Speaker 3: going to be the same thing, so that that style
Speaker 3: might work well a few other places on the PGA
Speaker 3: tour where there's holes that have a similar atmosphere or
Speaker 3: stakes you know, that tie to it. The other key
Speaker 3: is finding different formats of that type of idea, like
Speaker 3: a different broadcast, different formats of it that fit, you know,
Speaker 3: another specific of at riviera. Maybe it's people sitting and
Speaker 3: talking about ten or another hole. Right, just change it up,
Speaker 3: try new stuff. But I loved the initiative to try
Speaker 3: something new.
Speaker 1: I agree with you Andy, not to be negative. I
Speaker 1: think there was a little sacrifice on some of the
Speaker 1: shots from the players in contention, So I had a
Speaker 1: little bit of a problem with that on Saturday Night.
Speaker 1: But Smiley and Kevin Kissner themselves were great, and I
Speaker 1: loved that feed and seeing all those shots on sixteen,
Speaker 1: So I think there's a balance there, like also need
Speaker 1: to show the shots from the players in contention, But
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you, that was a great feed.
Speaker 3: I think it was a unique situation also. I mean,
Speaker 3: like Saturday of that event's always going to be about sixteen,
Speaker 3: but there's also the unique situation of like the weather delays, Right,
Speaker 3: what are you out on?
Speaker 1: This is going to be an old person yelling at
Speaker 1: cloud take Andy, but you're not even old. I know
Speaker 1: that's what's crazy about it. But I am out on
Speaker 1: celebrating drunkenness, specifically at the Waste Management Phoenix Open. These
Speaker 1: videos of people like falling over drunk on the cart path.
Speaker 1: I think this year's Phoenix Open got a little out
Speaker 1: of control. And when you kind of the brand of
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Open, I think they do a lot of
Speaker 1: things right. So my favorite events of the year, but
Speaker 1: the more that the rowdiness is celebrated. I think it
Speaker 1: attracts a certain type of person and things maybe got
Speaker 1: a little bit out of control this year. I love
Speaker 1: a lot about the Phoenix Open. I've been I was drinking.
Speaker 1: I'm all for it, but I think some of the
Speaker 1: like the viral clips of people peeing on themselves and stuff.
Speaker 1: Maybe if we cut back on some of that, we
Speaker 1: won't have as many fans yelling at players and taken
Speaker 1: away from some of the events. So I'm out on that.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
Speaker 3: Andy, I've thought about this a lot, and I just
Speaker 3: think this is just in general, the natural progression of
Speaker 3: the way these things work, right, is that you get
Speaker 3: an identity. Everybody finds out how cool it is, and
Speaker 3: it's super fun. It's a party atmosphere. It's unique to
Speaker 3: the tour, and the tour leaned into it. And I
Speaker 3: don't have like a problem with them leaning into it.
Speaker 3: But this is the natural progression of how these things work.
Speaker 3: I went to the University of Illinois. It's known for
Speaker 3: its unofficial Saint Patrick's Day Party. It was a big
Speaker 3: deal when I was there. I think it's still a
Speaker 3: big deal now, but it was like this day, it
Speaker 3: was a Friday, everybody just got wasted and it you know, listen,
Speaker 3: I partaked, I enjoyed it. But every year you're there,
Speaker 3: it gets a little bit worse because you get more
Speaker 3: and more people come from in from out of town. More.
Speaker 3: It becomes less and less of a homegrown type event.
Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the things that happens here,
Speaker 3: is like with this, with the with waste management, it's
Speaker 3: just evolved into this and and what it is is
Speaker 3: that people come in from all over the country to
Speaker 3: party and celebrate, and it's less about like this is
Speaker 3: Phoenix's event, right. It's people that come in there. It's
Speaker 3: their expectation. They treat it like a bachelor party day.
Speaker 3: And you know, this is just the natural progression that's
Speaker 3: going to happen. And it happens with all sorts of things.
Speaker 3: It happens with golf course design, where you know, once
Speaker 3: you say, oh, we're going to start, you know, narrowing
Speaker 3: fairways and growing rough like one course does it, one
Speaker 3: course does it a little bit more, one course does
Speaker 3: it a little bit more. This is the way society works.
Speaker 3: So I don't know where you go from here. If
Speaker 3: you're the waste management, it clearly did. I had some
Speaker 3: friends that were on site, had an awesome time, but
Speaker 3: they they're like, you know, they cut off alcohol sales
Speaker 3: that I talked to. One of them talked to a
Speaker 3: police officer that said that like one hundred and thirty
Speaker 3: people were taken out on stretchers. I don't know how
Speaker 3: you rein this back in because the PGA tour has
Speaker 3: leaned so far into what it is that it seems
Speaker 3: very hard. I don't know what to do. I'm glad
Speaker 3: I don't have to decide this, but yes, this is
Speaker 3: just what happens. The things that are deemed cool is
Speaker 3: that this is they get they spiral out of control.
Speaker 3: That was a long winded answer.
Speaker 1: No, Look, I agree with you. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of things about it are great, right, like even having
Speaker 1: a party identity is fine. But I think it's gotten
Speaker 1: a little out of control, and I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what you do to reign it
Speaker 1: back in, But all right, Andy, what are you out on?
Speaker 3: I you know, I so respect low scorers, I love them,
Speaker 3: but I just am gonna say that the number the
Speaker 3: scorers in the fifties no longer has the same cachet
Speaker 3: that it used to. We saw a fifty seven from
Speaker 3: Crystobauld Dell Solaire on the corn Ferry Tour this week.
Speaker 3: We've just seen, you know, like this year has been
Speaker 3: low score after low score after low scorer. Obviously Joaquin
Speaker 3: Neeman shot fifty nine the week before on Live Tour.
Speaker 3: You know sixties that we saw sixties from Wyndham Clark
Speaker 3: at Pebble Beach. It's just not it's it's like saying,
Speaker 3: you know, I would use this to to like, these
Speaker 3: are major League Baseball records that are being broken on
Speaker 3: a little league field, you know. So I don't think
Speaker 3: he had hit much more than a dgend any hole.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: The the I guess the ability for a golf course
Speaker 3: is to defend themselves against the moundern player or at
Speaker 3: an all time low you know, some equipment modifications and
Speaker 3: rollbacked or coming. I don't really think it's going to
Speaker 3: do much of anything. This might be just the new
Speaker 3: era and I'm just out on it being a huge
Speaker 3: deal because I just think it is. It is what
Speaker 3: it is in today's era of golf. Your thoughts, I
Speaker 3: agree with you, Andy. The Corn Ferry Tour ones were
Speaker 3: a bit of a special circumstance because it was a
Speaker 3: short golf course at altitude. But a score is just
Speaker 3: a number on a card at this point. Getting put
Speaker 3: on fifty nine watch that used to be rare fun
Speaker 3: and now it means basically nothing. Like I don't get
Speaker 3: excited by it anymore. I think the baseball analogy's appropriate. Also,
Speaker 3: NBA players scoring fifty, like, we've seen a huge increase
Speaker 3: in that this year to where it's no longer as
Speaker 3: noteworthy when somebody puts up fifty points. So yeah, scoring
Speaker 3: is all relative. I don't get excited by it either.
Speaker 3: But I think, especially this year, you're going to see
Speaker 3: a lot of low scores, like I think we're in
Speaker 3: for over the next year or two some really low
Speaker 3: scores until there's a rollback. And I agree with you
Speaker 3: that even once once the rollback happens, it's not going
Speaker 3: to have that significant of an impact.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you. I'm out on that too.
Speaker 3: All right, let's get to Gary Young, But first let's
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Speaker 3: dot org slash green section dash CCS. All right, thanks
Speaker 3: to the USGA, and let's get to Gary Young. All right, Gary,
Speaker 3: thank you for coming on. I would love to hear
Speaker 3: about how someone becomes a rules official. How do you
Speaker 3: become the head referee for PGA Tour event? How does
Speaker 3: that even come about? How does your life take you here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably probably well, first of all, thanks for
Speaker 2: having me on. It's probably the most common question that
Speaker 2: we get asked by fans that are walking by and
Speaker 2: see the rules official sticker on the front of the
Speaker 2: golf cart. They're always like, how do you become one
Speaker 2: of those? That sounds like something I'm interested in? I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: it looks like fun right now, but it has its moments.
Speaker 2: You know, everyone on our team comes from various backgrounds.
Speaker 2: Number one, most of us have either work have either
Speaker 2: been golf professionals at some point in the past, whether
Speaker 2: we were PGA of America members. Couple members of our
Speaker 2: team were actually members of the PGA Tour who later
Speaker 2: in their career decided to pursue being rules official, which
Speaker 2: is really I think that's important. It's always great to
Speaker 2: have a player's point of view on our committee. To
Speaker 2: someone like Mark Duce Bobbik, who does our television rules
Speaker 2: analyst role. And Mark was actually a middle linebacker for
Speaker 2: the Minnesota Vikings. How about that. So, you know it's
Speaker 2: something that just post football career, he really dedicated himself.
Speaker 2: He got involved in state and section associations, got a
Speaker 2: lot of experience in administration of golf, got educated on
Speaker 2: the rules, long extensive education on the rules, and eventually
Speaker 2: was hired later by Mark Russell. So, you know, we
Speaker 2: have a very very bad grounds that everyone comes from.
Speaker 2: I think that's what makes us special.
Speaker 3: Do you guys? Is there like a test? You know,
Speaker 3: financial advisors have to take a series seven? Is a
Speaker 3: Is there some sort of tests that you have to
Speaker 3: study for and then upkeep at certain times Like I'm
Speaker 3: just that's something I've always wondered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yes. We all started out by having to
Speaker 2: score very well on the USGA PGA of America. They
Speaker 2: do a joint rules workshop. You intend to workshop for
Speaker 2: about a week. It's a very extensive dive into the
Speaker 2: rules of golf and how to interpret the rules of golf,
Speaker 2: and then you take one hundred question exam and have
Speaker 2: to score exceptionally well on that to be considered so
Speaker 2: and then also it's just continually, like any other profession,
Speaker 2: the continuing education and we are constantly doing a deep
Speaker 2: dive into the rules of golf as they happen across
Speaker 2: all the major tours. We share with one another, rulings
Speaker 2: that we have, we talk about them in depth so
Speaker 2: that we have a better understanding of everything.
Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite obscure rule or ruling, like,
Speaker 3: is there one that that sticks out like that?
Speaker 1: That's literally I was gonna ask Andy, meaning about the
Speaker 1: if you have a golf ball in your pocket and
Speaker 1: you mark your ball, and you put it the ball
Speaker 1: that you just marked in your pocket and then marked
Speaker 1: the exact same way. Gary, correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: but if you're not sure which one you were using,
Speaker 1: I believe that is a lost ball.
Speaker 2: And that was I think that comes more into play
Speaker 2: when we have a ball in play right right, and
Speaker 2: we hit one and we haven't marked it, and we
Speaker 2: get out there and maybe we hit a provisional that's
Speaker 2: the same exact ball, same exact marking. Yeah, that would
Speaker 2: be a situation where if you truly could not tell
Speaker 2: which one was the first one in play, you know
Speaker 2: that particular that first one is deemed to be lost.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so it's always a good idea to mark
Speaker 2: your golf balls differently, for sure.
Speaker 3: Would you then have to hit a third t shot
Speaker 3: if say you hit a provisional now.
Speaker 2: In that situation. I'm trying to remember the exact interpretation
Speaker 2: on that one, but I believe the second the second
Speaker 2: ball would become the ball and play.
Speaker 3: But if you can't, if you don't know one, you'd be.
Speaker 2: Hitting your If you couldn't be hit, couldn't tell either,
Speaker 2: or you know, you would be hitting your fourth shot
Speaker 2: now from from the fair way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I remember reading it within the context
Speaker 1: of marking your ball on the green and like putting
Speaker 1: it in your pocket and then you're not sure because
Speaker 1: you have two balls in your pocket. And I was
Speaker 1: just a crazy situation that probably doesn't come up. Do
Speaker 1: you have a personal fear obscure one?
Speaker 2: I really don't. I really don't. They are all they
Speaker 2: all have their challenge is at times. So that's why
Speaker 2: we have a committee. And you know, when you're out
Speaker 2: there and you get in a situation like that one
Speaker 2: you just threw at me, I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 2: so weird, it's so unusual for something like that to happen.
Speaker 2: I would throw that out to the entire committee for
Speaker 2: everyone's feedback, to make sure that we get the call right.
Speaker 2: And as a matter of fact, I would say, okay, guys,
Speaker 2: before I close this out this ruling, is there anyone
Speaker 2: else that's thinking differently than what we've just heard, Because
Speaker 2: oftentimes there's someone sitting there really thinking about it and
Speaker 2: there's some small little thing that the committee's not thinking about.
Speaker 2: So we have had situations like that, and that's why
Speaker 2: it's important that there are eight of us, nine of
Speaker 2: us there at the course. We truly act as a
Speaker 2: committee on things.
Speaker 1: Well, Gary, when we resperd to PGA Tour setup, who
Speaker 1: all would that entail that? That's a big question I have,
Speaker 1: like who all is coordinating maintenance with respect to how
Speaker 1: long the grass should be green speeds? Can you can
Speaker 1: you explain who all within the PGA Tour orbit that
Speaker 1: term would encompass.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when we talk about setup, we're talking about
Speaker 2: two different things. There is the agronomic setup of the
Speaker 2: golf course, so that would be green speeds, height of
Speaker 2: cut in all of the different areas of the golf course.
Speaker 2: And then there's the other portion of setup, which is
Speaker 2: handled that week of the competition. And I can talk
Speaker 2: a little bit about both. So the first part, the
Speaker 2: agronomic setup. That's really something that is set up by
Speaker 2: the chief referee and the advanced rules official for each event.
Speaker 2: So we have a person that travels to the golf
Speaker 2: course a week in advance and his or her job
Speaker 2: is to prepare the golf course for competition. They work
Speaker 2: with our ronomist and the local superintendent or director of
Speaker 2: agronomy at a facility and they make sure that everything
Speaker 2: that we have. You know, from years of experience playing
Speaker 2: at a venue, we know what optimal conditions are for
Speaker 2: that particular venue. Maybe the height of cut at three
Speaker 2: inches is perfect for that golf course given the grass type.
Speaker 2: Maybe at another place it might be two inches because
Speaker 2: it's bermuda grass. And you know, each type of grass
Speaker 2: represents a different issue at different heights of cut. Same
Speaker 2: thing with height of fairway, speed of greens, it really
Speaker 2: depends upon the architecture of the golf course. You know
Speaker 2: last week at Pebble Beach, that's a really challenging set
Speaker 2: of greens to find quality whole locations. Once the greens
Speaker 2: get above a certain speed, we knew we had big
Speaker 2: wins coming in last week, so we actually backed off
Speaker 2: the green speeds. Our target speed was between eleven and
Speaker 2: a half and twelve. We actually backed it off closer
Speaker 2: to just below eleven, which now allows us to go
Speaker 2: into some more slopier areas. But again, we were trying
Speaker 2: to get high and dry. We were trying to put
Speaker 2: the whole locations up where moisture wouldn't shut us down
Speaker 2: and we could keep playing golf. So that was the
Speaker 2: bonus of being at lower green speeds. Everyone always thinks, oh,
Speaker 2: fast green speeds, that's the challenge, not really, you know,
Speaker 2: if you want to go to some of these really
Speaker 2: quality whole locations on an old golf course, we need
Speaker 2: those green speeds to be lower.
Speaker 3: Is that a tough conversation just you know, you hear
Speaker 3: PGA tour players talk about when they go to the
Speaker 3: say the Open Championship, and they say always talk about, oh,
Speaker 3: the greens are slower than I'm used to. There's a period.
Speaker 3: Is it hard to have a little bit slower greens
Speaker 3: when you have, like I'm thinking in my head, Sedgefield
Speaker 3: as a great example where the greens have is an
Speaker 3: old golf course. It's a Donald Ross design that has
Speaker 3: a lot of slope and it's one of the one
Speaker 3: of the places I feel like you see four footers
Speaker 3: with the most break you'd see anywhere on tour. Is
Speaker 3: it a hard thing to accomplish with players that are
Speaker 3: used to act speed.
Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting comment because we don't try. We
Speaker 2: are definitely not a cookie cutter tour, meaning we're not
Speaker 2: looking to be twelve every week. We're not looking to
Speaker 2: be you know, three inch height of rough. It really
Speaker 2: is driven by the architecture of the golf course. You
Speaker 2: mentioned Sedgefield, that's a great example of a very challenging
Speaker 2: set of greens, and we just know historically if we
Speaker 2: if we have the green speeds too high, can really
Speaker 2: lose quality whole locations, ones that are going to challenge
Speaker 2: the player on their approach shot to the green. And
Speaker 2: so almost like when we become too fast on a
Speaker 2: set of greens, we tend to have to go towards
Speaker 2: the middle of the green with the whole locations, and
Speaker 2: you don't get the variation in whole locations you're looking for. So,
Speaker 2: you know, you mentioned the Open Championship that they do
Speaker 2: a great job with their golf course setup and some
Speaker 2: of the most challenging whole locations. I'm always you know,
Speaker 2: when I'm walking with a group at the Open Championship,
Speaker 2: I'm always looking at Hoss saying, wow, I mean if
Speaker 2: we try that on the PGA Tour. But their green
Speaker 2: speeds are such that they can go to those places, so,
Speaker 2: you know, I think that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: And I think your original question to players, do they
Speaker 2: mind it? Yeah, I mean they have to make adjustments
Speaker 2: to you know, that their stroke for sure. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes if it's a little on the slower side, you
Speaker 2: have to pop it a little bit more than just
Speaker 2: that normal flowing stroke that they have kind of week
Speaker 2: in and week out. So I think it's tougher to
Speaker 2: use the aim point that way.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the agronomics part of the setup, and
Speaker 1: then you'd mentioned there being the other piece of the setup.
Speaker 1: Maybe if you can elaborate that on that And one
Speaker 1: question I had is what is the PGA Tour's goal
Speaker 1: with setup and in your opinion, what are the ingredients
Speaker 1: of a proper PGA Tour test. So maybe if you
Speaker 1: want to take those questions in whatever order you see fit.
Speaker 2: The goal of any PGA Tour event any day is
Speaker 2: to try to set up the most difficult course we
Speaker 2: can yet fair, difficult yet fair. We're trying to challenge
Speaker 2: the best players in the world. You see some events
Speaker 2: where the numbers are are high, you know, like it's
Speaker 2: you know high meaning under par. Seems like the guys
Speaker 2: are shooting lights out there. Well certain venues just you know,
Speaker 2: they don't have maybe the challenge of some of something
Speaker 2: like a Tory Pines or a pebble beach or other
Speaker 2: places where you can kind of ratchet things down a
Speaker 2: little bit by having tougher whole locations. So our goal
Speaker 2: every day is difficult yet fair given the day's conditions.
Speaker 2: So we have two setup guys each week, or we
Speaker 2: also have women, so I shouldn't just say guys, but
Speaker 2: we have two set up people each week, and their
Speaker 2: job is to communicate with one another on how they're
Speaker 2: setting up their nine each day. One's doing the front,
Speaker 2: one's doing the back. They want to make sure they
Speaker 2: have four different clubs in the player's hands on par three's.
Speaker 2: Usually a golf course has four of them, so we're
Speaker 2: looking for variety, variety in the whole location and shot shape.
Speaker 2: We're also looking for variety in the yardage. So the
Speaker 2: goal is to have four different clubs in their hands,
Speaker 2: and then throughout the golf course, just balance between right,
Speaker 2: right hand, left hand, whole locations front, middle, back. You're
Speaker 2: looking at it so that when a player looks at
Speaker 2: a whole location sheet, they see nice balance and it
Speaker 2: almost looks like one person is setting up the golf
Speaker 2: course rather than two distinct ones. And that's something that
Speaker 2: we work hard at is, you know, working with the staff,
Speaker 2: and they do a great job. Already. We have a
Speaker 2: really terrific staff and they understand golf and they've been
Speaker 2: doing it a long time, so they know how to
Speaker 2: set up a challenging course, but really looking for that
Speaker 2: balance so that doesn't appear that it's two distinct people
Speaker 2: setting it up.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I could ask you a million questions on
Speaker 1: pin locations alone. One that maybe a couple parts to
Speaker 1: this question, but something I always think about how the
Speaker 1: golf course plays in the morning versus how it plays
Speaker 1: when it gets a little firmer in the afternoon, and
Speaker 1: how wind interacts with that. So can you maybe talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about some of those considerations, And for example,
Speaker 1: are you trying to get similar difficulty on Thursday and
Speaker 1: Friday because you have players who play one morning one
Speaker 1: afternoon and maybe how you change that over the course
Speaker 1: of the four days. So again a few questions that
Speaker 1: I just threw at you, but very interested in how
Speaker 1: that impacts pin locations and what you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2: Now, those are really good questions. You know, you are
Speaker 2: trying to keep the golf course a little more balanced.
Speaker 2: For sure, on Thursday and Friday, each player is going
Speaker 2: to have a chance to play in the morning in
Speaker 2: the afternoon wave, and you hope to keep the conditions
Speaker 2: as similar as possible. You're looking to strike that balance
Speaker 2: because weather oftentimes doesn't allow that, so you're factoring that
Speaker 2: into your decision making, and you're always setting up for
Speaker 2: the worst conditions that are going to be faced. So
Speaker 2: what might appear to be an easy set up in
Speaker 2: the morning for the guys playing in the morning, you're
Speaker 2: really trying to keep it fair for the guys in
Speaker 2: the afternoon who are going to face maybe high winds
Speaker 2: or a driving rain or something like that. So you're
Speaker 2: always thinking about equity, and that's what the most important
Speaker 2: function of rules committee is to keep the event as
Speaker 2: equitable as possible, the competition equitable. And then again, you
Speaker 2: know there's some places that are just a challenge. You know,
Speaker 2: we go to places with high altitude. I can always
Speaker 2: remember we used to play out in Reno and the
Speaker 2: golf course we played there, we had to really water
Speaker 2: the heck out of it overnight, and the guys would
Speaker 2: always complain about how how damp it was in the morning,
Speaker 2: and yet in the afternoon it was rock hard. And
Speaker 2: it was like, well, if we don't get it damp
Speaker 2: in the morning, guess what, it's gonna be dead by
Speaker 2: the afternoon. It's going to look like all these mountains
Speaker 2: around us where there's no vegetation. We are in the
Speaker 2: middle of an arid area where moisture is needed. So
Speaker 2: you're always trying to strike that balance. You don't want
Speaker 2: it to be too soft for the guys in the morning,
Speaker 2: but you got to give it enough moisture to get
Speaker 2: it through the day.
Speaker 3: Over your time at the PGA Tour, how would you
Speaker 3: say that setup has evolved both from the aspect of
Speaker 3: player revolution they're hitting it further, but also from an
Speaker 3: agronomic standpoint. Never is agronomy bet better. Never have we
Speaker 3: been able to push courses to the same standard as
Speaker 3: we can today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're hitting on a good point there,
Speaker 2: because distance is something that we hear about all the time,
Speaker 2: and although I don't disagree, people are hitting it a
Speaker 2: little bit further each year, and we see that the
Speaker 2: athletes are getting bigger and stronger every year. The ability
Speaker 2: for them to talk to to fine tune their equipment
Speaker 2: is getting better and better with the use of track
Speaker 2: Man data, so they're optimizing everything about their equipment. But
Speaker 2: going to the agronomic side, there's no doubt that our
Speaker 2: agronomy team for sure has gotten better and better at
Speaker 2: providing just outstanding conditions and that has an impact on
Speaker 2: distance as well, no doubt about it. We've been mowing
Speaker 2: fairways at lower tolerances for sure, constantly asking courses to
Speaker 2: dry it down because our players want firm, fast conditions
Speaker 2: and that's what we try to provide each week. So
Speaker 2: that has a big has a lot to do with
Speaker 2: the distance debate. Is part of it is the data
Speaker 2: that's coming from our tour is being driven by just
Speaker 2: superior conditions week in and week out. I guarantee it
Speaker 2: last week that stop and wet mess we played in
Speaker 2: the distance was not a big factor because balls were
Speaker 2: hitting and stopping right there, So that would be a
Speaker 2: week that would skew the numbers severely.
Speaker 3: In terms of your stance. You were just kind of
Speaker 3: talking about tests early on. What do you see from
Speaker 3: your chair on the best way to test the modern
Speaker 3: PGA tour player.
Speaker 2: Probably the best way is to have a challenging set
Speaker 2: of greens. This is just my take on it from
Speaker 2: watching it play out. It's all about I think architecture
Speaker 2: where water is able to leave the green, it doesn't
Speaker 2: kind of shots that hit close to the green tend
Speaker 2: to get repelled away from the green if they're not precise,
Speaker 2: rather than architecture that almost rewards a shot that's maybe
Speaker 2: hit just a little more offline, hit something and ricochet's
Speaker 2: back onto the green. So if I were designing a
Speaker 2: course to challenge the best players right now, it would
Speaker 2: all be about precision on iron shots into the green
Speaker 2: and then of course a nice challenging set of greens
Speaker 2: that doesn't have severe slopes, but just subtle, subtle features
Speaker 2: that are very difficult for the player to read. And
Speaker 2: I think I noticed that our players love the older
Speaker 2: courses as opposed to some of the modern courses, and
Speaker 2: I think a lot of that has to do with
Speaker 2: some of the most classic designs that you think of.
Speaker 2: Probably some of your favorite courses were built in a
Speaker 2: period where and most of those courses were built by hand,
Speaker 2: by horse and plow and labor, you know, manual labor
Speaker 2: with rakes, and they get all those fine little details
Speaker 2: that you really have to search for with your eye.
Speaker 2: It's not so obvious as you know nowadays with some
Speaker 2: of the larger dozers and things like that that they use.
Speaker 2: It's I think there are certain architects in the modern
Speaker 2: era that that tend to be able to provide that
Speaker 2: same type feel that I'm talking about some of the
Speaker 2: classic courses.
Speaker 3: I agree, like there is a thing where when you're
Speaker 3: not sure, it seems like it's hard. When the guys
Speaker 3: struggle the most when they can't really tell which way
Speaker 3: a putt breaks right and they think it might be
Speaker 3: on the right edge, and then it moves just a
Speaker 3: fraction to the right instead, and that's what kind of
Speaker 3: flummoxes them. It gets the it gets that Pete's I quote.
Speaker 3: It gets them thinking right, you win, right, I get
Speaker 3: them thinking from your perspective, and obviously this is all opinion.
Speaker 3: Do you think the older courses because of history, also
Speaker 3: get away with a little bit more severity in features
Speaker 3: because that's the way it's always been, versus when you
Speaker 3: go to say a newer venue or a course that's
Speaker 3: been renovated in something news introduced that's different from what
Speaker 3: it used to be.
Speaker 2: I think you're hitting on a good one there. You know,
Speaker 2: if you show up the US Open and it's being
Speaker 2: played at Wingfoot, where that can have some crazy features,
Speaker 2: right th.
Speaker 3: I feel like those screens wouldn't work at like TPC Scottsdale.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I think if someone showed up and someone had just
Speaker 2: designed that golf course or that set of greens complexes,
Speaker 2: the players would probably be, you know, saying some nasty
Speaker 2: things about it. But yeah, you do tend to just
Speaker 2: accept some of the older architecture. And I think that
Speaker 2: the guys understand that, you know, those greens were designed
Speaker 2: when the golf ball well just wasn't rolling at the
Speaker 2: speeds that that we have greens rolling at now. So
Speaker 2: there is a balance there. And again, you know, I
Speaker 2: think the USGA does a great job. They do a
Speaker 2: great job setting up the US Open each year. I
Speaker 2: think we enjoy, you know, the challenge they present and
Speaker 2: they've been nice enough to have us there, uh with them,
Speaker 2: just asking questions as they're as they're setting up, but
Speaker 2: they do an outstanding job presenting a good challenge.
Speaker 3: Well, while we're here, I you know, one the the
Speaker 3: course of what you were discussed discussing about testing the
Speaker 3: world's best, it sounded a lot like Pinehurst number two
Speaker 3: greens that repel with kind of subtle slopes in them.
Speaker 3: But while we're on the major championship setup stuff. You know,
Speaker 3: you you attend majors, you were, you work majors. How
Speaker 3: do you kind of look when you look at take
Speaker 3: a step back and look at those setups versus the
Speaker 3: PGA Tour setups. How do you think they differ? How
Speaker 3: do you think they're similar. I'd just be curious in
Speaker 3: your perspective of majors versus the setups that you guys
Speaker 3: do as your for your organization.
Speaker 2: I think, first and foremost, it starts with the ability
Speaker 2: to nail down some of the some of the most
Speaker 2: iconic venues. You know, and when you are bringing a
Speaker 2: major championship to some of the most iconic venues in
Speaker 2: our country, sometimes they're willing to host those events. You know,
Speaker 2: obviously they're more open to it. So it starts with
Speaker 2: the quality of the architecture, and that is one thing
Speaker 2: it seems like they get right every year, and then
Speaker 2: the ability to create a firm, fast condition. So this
Speaker 2: year at Pinehurst, it should. You know, everything tells you
Speaker 2: that that place should at that time of year be paying, playing,
Speaker 2: firm and fast and has the architectural value to really
Speaker 2: challenge the best players in the world. Now. I think
Speaker 2: another venue that they played recently a US Open was
Speaker 2: the country Club and Brookline and everyone was wondering, well,
Speaker 2: what's that going to be like, you know, and I
Speaker 2: had no doubt in my mind it was still going
Speaker 2: to present a serious challenge because it had some real
Speaker 2: strength in that those greens complexes, and I knew they
Speaker 2: was going to challenge the guys and they were not
Speaker 2: going to have the memory recall because not many of
Speaker 2: them have played there, and it stood up to be
Speaker 2: a terrific challenge. But a lot of it was they,
Speaker 2: you know, the USGA did a great job setting that
Speaker 2: place up that week, and they had us there and
Speaker 2: they asked a lot of questions and I respect them
Speaker 2: for that because we're with the players week in week out,
Speaker 2: and the fact that they even asked our opinion. You know,
Speaker 2: we're flattered by that and we're proud to be part
Speaker 2: of our our national championship. We probably have more input
Speaker 2: at the US Open with them than than any other major, which,
Speaker 2: you know, but I respect all of the organizations that
Speaker 2: run them, and I think they do a great job
Speaker 2: presenting a really tough challenge. I mean, sometimes it can
Speaker 2: have our players scratching their heads, but you know what,
Speaker 2: it always it's fair. It's not it's not across the line.
Speaker 2: They do a good job of keeping things in check.
Speaker 3: Now, So I imagine you kind of look at them
Speaker 3: and think, oh, how nice it must be to be
Speaker 3: able to like really focus in on one event for
Speaker 3: you know, for a long period of time. But on
Speaker 3: the flip side, they look at you guys, and it's like, God,
Speaker 3: it must be nice to do this every week.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I don't think that we can push things
Speaker 2: sometimes as hard as they do. They're not gonna be
Speaker 2: They're not gonna be facing the players week in and
Speaker 2: week out, There's no doubt about it. But yeah, that
Speaker 2: is a luxury. I wish I had that luxury of
Speaker 2: just doing it once a year, but they all do
Speaker 2: a good job. Carrie Haig from the PGA of America
Speaker 2: does an outstanding job every year, and you know you
Speaker 2: would think that I would hear criticism, but never do.
Speaker 2: I mean, he just does a great job.
Speaker 1: Gary, going back to one of your answers from a
Speaker 1: couple questions ago about what an ideal test is and
Speaker 1: when you hit a shot that's not perfectly struck, it
Speaker 1: repels away. I think you're not to put words in
Speaker 1: your mouth, but kind of getting at the relationship between
Speaker 1: hitting a shot online and experiencing a consequence, and with that,
Speaker 1: I think a hot topic always on social media that
Speaker 1: I'd love to get your perspective on is t i
Speaker 1: I relief where there's there are infrastructural requirements of a
Speaker 1: PGA Tour event and any professional golf event, but oftentimes
Speaker 1: hit a shot offline and you're able to get a
Speaker 1: free drop, not experience as much of a consequence as
Speaker 1: maybe fans on social media. I'd count myself in this
Speaker 1: camp I would like to see. Curious for your perspective
Speaker 1: on TiO relief. Is it? Are there solutions? Do you
Speaker 1: think it's a problem on tour? I'd just love to
Speaker 1: get the PGA Tour's perspective on that subject.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you you know, it's an important part
Speaker 2: of it, right, these tournaments run, they raise a lot
Speaker 2: of money for charity, you know, and and we sell
Speaker 2: those venues, and it's an important part of the formula
Speaker 2: of a successful PGA Tour event. We're trying to get
Speaker 2: people close to the action, especially sometimes on the closing
Speaker 2: holes of an event. That's it's important that all those
Speaker 2: structures are there. Not to mention that our own infrastructure
Speaker 2: to provide data for everything right now in the sport,
Speaker 2: whether it be gaming, whether it be our broadcasts, all
Speaker 2: there's things popping up all over the golf course. So
Speaker 2: when you go and play a golf course as the
Speaker 2: average player, you don't encounter all these things. And we
Speaker 2: certainly can't punish the players for ending up in an
Speaker 2: area where something is on their line of play, so
Speaker 2: we do. I mentioned the advance official. The advance official
Speaker 2: works almost year round with an event, working with the
Speaker 2: proper placement of everything on the golf course. He's trying
Speaker 2: to strike a balance between the location of a structure
Speaker 2: from an entertainment standpoint and then also from the design
Speaker 2: of the golf course and trying to protect the design
Speaker 2: features the golf course. You don't want to have structures
Speaker 2: right up right up against the eighteenth green where it's
Speaker 2: almost creating a backboard. And I think that's probably what
Speaker 2: you're getting at is, you know, it's a balance there.
Speaker 2: So we're always asking more room, more room, and unfortunately
Speaker 2: some venues don't provide enough room for all these things.
Speaker 2: So as upset as the home viewer may be getting,
Speaker 2: you know, it's within the rules of the game and
Speaker 2: they don't have to encounter all of these things when
Speaker 2: they play a golf course. It presents challenges, good and bad.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes it does reward the player, and if
Speaker 2: we've placed something wrong and it happens to player gets
Speaker 2: rewarded for that, you know, we're making notes of that
Speaker 2: and we'll make darn shore next year that same thing
Speaker 2: isn't located there. But it's it's a balance. We're always
Speaker 2: trying to provide an entertainment vehicle for all of you
Speaker 2: to see at home, and at the same time, you know,
Speaker 2: we've got to have the ability to entertain people on
Speaker 2: site and provide data for all those other folks.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot, there's a lot to balance. I
Speaker 1: know one thing I've seen at major championships in the past,
Speaker 1: and maybe this has happened that PGA Tour venues, is
Speaker 1: sometimes they'll have a designated drop area that's like a
Speaker 1: bad lie. Whether it's a little bit of fescue or something.
Speaker 1: Is that something that the PGA Tour has considered, or
Speaker 1: are there any counterbalancing solutions to the backboarding issue for example?
Speaker 2: Uh, We've always we have always shied away from drop
Speaker 2: zones or drop areas because quite frankly, we just believe
Speaker 2: there's a rule in place that that keeps the ball
Speaker 2: in a more similar area to where where struck. You know,
Speaker 2: where it was lying. So we would rather operate off
Speaker 2: the TiO local rule rather than bring a player to
Speaker 2: the nearest drop zone and have them all playing from
Speaker 2: within there and creating divots in there and everything every
Speaker 2: other possibility. We just believe there's a rule in place,
Speaker 2: and we all understand it, and we have we're very
Speaker 2: comfortable operating under it. I think it's more the home
Speaker 2: viewer that doesn't understand sometimes what we're doing. But you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes it's not always creating an easy up and down situation.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it creates a worse situation than the player would
Speaker 2: have been facing if that thing wasn't there. So yeah,
Speaker 2: this plus is and minuses. I think everyone just gets
Speaker 2: upset when they see a player somehow get rewarded for
Speaker 2: hitting a bad shot. And I get that.
Speaker 1: I get that you're referencing with a lot of the
Speaker 1: infrastructure that's out on tour. Shot link towers, for example,
Speaker 1: are a big part of that. And I'm curious, does
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour what is PJ Tour setups relationship with data?
Speaker 1: Are you looking at certain scoring averages and hoping that
Speaker 1: you get a certain distribution of birdies and bogies on
Speaker 1: particular holes based on how you've set it up? Are
Speaker 1: you evaluating a setup based on some of the data
Speaker 1: that you're getting back. Just curious what your relationship is
Speaker 1: with data and maybe how that's changed since you've been
Speaker 1: the PJ Tour.
Speaker 2: We we've come a long way and we're good. It's
Speaker 2: only going to get better. We're doing a deeper dive
Speaker 2: into the data all the time. And you know that's
Speaker 2: one thing that we the PGA Tour has made a
Speaker 2: huge investment in data through shot link and shot link
Speaker 2: has been a huge help for us in our daily
Speaker 2: setup of the golf course and our planning. And you know,
Speaker 2: I talked about our setup team and their ability to
Speaker 2: take a deep dive into the data, looking at when
Speaker 2: the whole location is in this section of the green
Speaker 2: in this wind direction. They can look back at the
Speaker 2: data and they can see where the shot dispersion pattern
Speaker 2: was off of the tee. They can make adjustments based
Speaker 2: on all that data, thousands and thousands of shots that
Speaker 2: are being struck. And it's almost getting to the point
Speaker 2: where I think in the future we can actually select
Speaker 2: a golf course and almost have the ability to predict
Speaker 2: what the score is going to be just based on
Speaker 2: you know, the computer will figure out that whole location
Speaker 2: with that wind and do it for each hole and
Speaker 2: almost predict what the average score is going to be
Speaker 2: and what, you know, what the winning score might be.
Speaker 2: You know, it's really a neat tool in our toolbox,
Speaker 2: and it's just just in its infancy right now. We
Speaker 2: are come a long way, and we've got a lot
Speaker 2: of great people working in the background. The PGA Tour
Speaker 2: has not stopped with everything going on in professional golf.
Speaker 2: Right now, I can tell you. The folks at the
Speaker 2: PGA Tour are hard at work trying to figure out
Speaker 2: how we can be better and continue to distance ourselves
Speaker 2: from our competition, especially in that end of the business.
Speaker 2: We are getting stronger and stronger every day.
Speaker 3: Do you have a specific example of maybe how data
Speaker 3: changed the way you thought about something with your job
Speaker 3: right where you thought for years And I feel like
Speaker 3: this happens to me all the time with golf data,
Speaker 3: where oh I thought this, but actually this was the case.
Speaker 3: It could be a whole location, it could be you know,
Speaker 3: a way, it could be a variety of things.
Speaker 2: Obviously, I think probably where in my day to day
Speaker 2: oftentimes we're talking about making changes to golf holes on
Speaker 2: certain courses, and our team now has the ability, through
Speaker 2: all the shot linked data and through all this technology
Speaker 2: that they've developed, before we make the change to the
Speaker 2: golf hole, and if we're thinking of moving a bunker
Speaker 2: or shifting something or bringing the rough line in, they
Speaker 2: can take all of the shot dispersion data and overlay
Speaker 2: that and make the changes to the hole and it
Speaker 2: will figure out and simulate what the balls that end
Speaker 2: up in the rough what the average score was, and
Speaker 2: you can see ahead of time, before you spend any
Speaker 2: money making those changes to a golf course, are you
Speaker 2: really going to have the impact that you're looking for? So,
Speaker 2: you know, the Players Championship is a great example TPC Sawgrass.
Speaker 2: We are constantly looking at that golf course. How can
Speaker 2: we present a better challenge to that golf course? And
Speaker 2: it's not just distance oftentimes it's shifting features, slightly changing angles,
Speaker 2: you know, constantly trying to make the player think out there.
Speaker 2: So before we spend money on it, we can on
Speaker 2: CAD designs they can shift, change things and calculate is
Speaker 2: that worth it? Is it going to change the average
Speaker 2: score for.
Speaker 3: The whole With regards to making changes, especially you know,
Speaker 3: architectural changes at a place, you know with say Stagress
Speaker 3: designed by one of the greatest architects of all time.
Speaker 3: When you're looking at that, are you guys looking at
Speaker 3: pure difficulty? How do we get this average up? Or
Speaker 3: is more the goal to how do we create a
Speaker 3: wider range of outcomes like where where we have more
Speaker 3: low scores but also more high scores.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think you hit on it. We've never
Speaker 2: We love the fact that the range of champions at
Speaker 2: TPC Sawgrass is really wide. You know, you have players short,
Speaker 2: short hitters, medium and long, and it's never favored any
Speaker 2: one particular type of player. So that's why we personally
Speaker 2: love the course and we continue to tweak the place.
Speaker 2: Pete Die was just an unbelievable architect who challenged you
Speaker 2: physically and mentally, and it was important to us that
Speaker 2: if as we move forward there at TPC Sawgrass, it
Speaker 2: was important to us that we get player feedback from
Speaker 2: people who have played it in the past, and we've
Speaker 2: gotten a lot of feedback, especially from Davis. Davis Love,
Speaker 2: who is now involved in making future adjustments to Pete's design.
Speaker 2: He absolutely was a big fan of Pete Pete's design
Speaker 2: and he's very thoughtful in his own architecture, and we
Speaker 2: thought he was the perfect guy to bring on board.
Speaker 2: So he has been really deeply invested in future adjustments
Speaker 2: to the golf course there and making sure that he
Speaker 2: is being true to pete thoughts on how to play
Speaker 2: that golf course. And also Tiger has also had some
Speaker 2: input with Davis. They've talked extensively about how the course
Speaker 2: used to play, and we value their opinion obviously, any
Speaker 2: any of the past champions who really want to see
Speaker 2: that golf course be the true challenge.
Speaker 1: Gary, I'm really glad you brought up TPC saw grass
Speaker 1: because I think one debate I've kind of had with
Speaker 1: people recently, what's the best time to play TPC saw grass.
Speaker 1: How does it play differently in May versus March. Really
Speaker 1: interested in your perspective on how it plays differently in
Speaker 1: March than in it's history, oracles at least where it
Speaker 1: used to be in May, and what some of the
Speaker 1: differences are in setting up the course firmness levels. Really
Speaker 1: curious for your perspective on how that moved to March
Speaker 1: has changed how TBC sawgrass plays.
Speaker 3: Move move back to March. Joseph might be too might
Speaker 3: be too young to remember the March days before the
Speaker 3: May days.
Speaker 2: Joe's a young one. Huh. I'll be honestly it uh.
Speaker 2: We we had the benefit of knowing how it would
Speaker 2: play in March. We had been playing it in May,
Speaker 2: and we're providing a very firm, fast golf course. It
Speaker 2: didn't quite have the color that it has. It didn't
Speaker 2: have the appeal visually, you know, because the Bermuda was
Speaker 2: still somewhat you know, not coming fully out of dormancy,
Speaker 2: and I think that everyone felt that the golf course
Speaker 2: presents itself better in March. Just visually striking the rough
Speaker 2: is certainly a challenge. Still, we have the ability to
Speaker 2: it's all overseed, so we have the ability to beef
Speaker 2: the rough up and it's thick and juicy. It's just
Speaker 2: not going to play as firm and fast. So we
Speaker 2: know that the scoring is going to be good, and
Speaker 2: I think that's it's always produced somewhere in that fourteen
Speaker 2: to fifteen under par region, somewhere in there, so and
Speaker 2: we're okay with that. We think that at the end
Speaker 2: of a week, we want to see some scoring. It's
Speaker 2: all about the competition itself. Was it a compelling competition.
Speaker 2: Let's not get focused on how many under par wins
Speaker 2: the tournament. And that's something that I don't like is
Speaker 2: when people start placing, you know, they start saying something
Speaker 2: about a venue, they say, oh, they shoot a twenty
Speaker 2: something under par there. It's all about the competition. What
Speaker 2: people remember in the end was the exciting finish and
Speaker 2: was it a duel coming down the stretch? Was there
Speaker 2: a playoff? An exciting playoff? I don't think many people
Speaker 2: actually remember what the winning score was, so we don't
Speaker 2: get hung up on that.
Speaker 3: I think the whole score things kind of silly if
Speaker 3: you look at how many player you know, Look, when
Speaker 3: Tiger came out, nobody hit the ball over three hundred yards.
Speaker 3: Now half the tour hits the ball over three hundred yards.
Speaker 3: I think the scoring competition, the scoring conversation is crazy.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, the the quality of a golf
Speaker 3: course cannot be determined by what you know. Par is relative.
Speaker 3: Have you, guys ever talked about like dramatically. I know
Speaker 3: you've done it in occasions where like TPC Craig Ranch
Speaker 3: went down in par one shot. Have you ever talked
Speaker 3: about going to like a par sixty eight for one
Speaker 3: week and just seeing how what the general reaction would be.
Speaker 2: I don't know that. We've just discovered us doing that. There
Speaker 2: are times where we look at a par say there's
Speaker 2: a par five, and when you look at the end
Speaker 2: of the week and the average for that hole is
Speaker 2: four point zero or four point one, that's really a
Speaker 2: par four for our players. You know on the card
Speaker 2: it's a par five. So there have been times where
Speaker 2: we have we've changed the par value on a hole.
Speaker 2: But when we do that, we want to make sure
Speaker 2: that the green is one that is receptive to a
Speaker 2: long club being hit to it, so that we can
Speaker 2: truly call it a par four and have the players
Speaker 2: have it feel like it's a true par four. They
Speaker 2: understand hitting a longer club. In where they get critical
Speaker 2: is when it's a green that was really designed to
Speaker 2: receive a wedge and where and they're hitting you know,
Speaker 2: long clubs to it.
Speaker 3: I've done some research on this subject and if you
Speaker 3: go back to when par was created in nineteen tens,
Speaker 3: it was determined that a par five was a hole
Speaker 3: that is reached with three shots by an expert player,
Speaker 3: that would be the normal. And my question with that
Speaker 3: is like, are there actually you know, we just saw
Speaker 3: it with pebble stopping. We pebble guys hitting irons into fourteen,
Speaker 3: which has traditionally been one of the few real three
Speaker 3: shot par fives on tour. My question is is it,
Speaker 3: I mean, do par fives really even exist in the
Speaker 3: pro game today?
Speaker 2: It's it's there's not many. There's not many that require
Speaker 2: three shots anymore. Let's let's be honest, you know. So
Speaker 2: that's where sometimes our whole locations on that particular hole
Speaker 2: will be challenging, knowing that they are going to be
Speaker 2: somewhere up there around the green flipping a wedge. Well,
Speaker 2: the balance is going to be urine and have a
Speaker 2: really difficult up and down to achieve a birdy there.
Speaker 2: You know that should should mean something, so but yeah,
Speaker 2: they just it's a function of the game and how
Speaker 2: it's evolved. And you're right, there aren't many that they
Speaker 2: don't reach into anymore.
Speaker 1: Gary. In terms of sports leagues, PGA Tour other sports
Speaker 1: leagues as well, modernizing, one hot topic is always pace
Speaker 1: of play, speeding the game up. You know, Major League
Speaker 1: Baseball recently implemented a pitch clock. You are uniquely positioned
Speaker 1: to just discuss some of the complications in implementing a
Speaker 1: shot clock in golf. It's something that gets thrown around
Speaker 1: a lot. Really curious for your perspective on the difficulties
Speaker 1: of implementing a solution like a shot clock and kind
Speaker 1: of how what the tour stance is on that right now.
Speaker 2: And I'll forgive you guys for the pop shots that
Speaker 2: you take at us once in a while about our
Speaker 2: lack of addressing pace of play. But honestly, I so.
Speaker 3: It takes a long It's a big commitment to watch golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we hear. Don't worry. I'm being honest with you, guys.
Speaker 2: It's all about having the ability to spread the groups out. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's spreading the tea time intervals out, and clubs across
Speaker 2: America would help the pace of their own pace of
Speaker 2: play by creating more space. What happens is when the
Speaker 2: fields get large, then we get one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: six players in a field. We've got to have t
Speaker 2: time intervals so close together. And then, as you just said,
Speaker 2: par fives really are all reachable, right, so you can
Speaker 2: almost assure yourself that every par five is going to
Speaker 2: have a weight. So now you've got four weights occurring
Speaker 2: throughout the golf course, and with all of them starting
Speaker 2: so close to one another, and knowing that these weights
Speaker 2: are occurring, how do you time anyone? You know, It's
Speaker 2: just you kind of lose your ability, and the slower
Speaker 2: players can tend to hide in those situations, they don't
Speaker 2: stand out as much. When we get to situations where
Speaker 2: our fields are smaller and we can spread the tea
Speaker 2: times out, you see the results in the pace of play.
Speaker 2: The pace of play suddenly goes from north to five
Speaker 2: hours to suddenly now we're playing about four hours and
Speaker 2: forty five minutes, which for professional golf and everything they're
Speaker 2: playing for is acceptable. This is not some round of
Speaker 2: golf that you're playing on a weekend with your buddies.
Speaker 2: These guys are playing for their lives. And we all
Speaker 2: know that we have a system in place that I
Speaker 2: firmly believe in through the shot Link system, and it
Speaker 2: tracks average shot time data on each player. We have
Speaker 2: moved to that system rather than and yet we will
Speaker 2: still t groups if they fall out of position with
Speaker 2: the groups ahead of them. They all have a responsibility
Speaker 2: to stay in position with the group ahead of them,
Speaker 2: and we will warn groups and we will time groups.
Speaker 2: But the bigger thing is the slowest players on the
Speaker 2: PGA Tour are going to end up paying fines at
Speaker 2: the end of the year if they set themselves apart
Speaker 2: from the rest and they and they don't. You know,
Speaker 2: I've always said to the slower players when when they
Speaker 2: get a what we call an ast infraction. So at
Speaker 2: the end of each event, there's an average time to
Speaker 2: hit a shot. The slowest basically the slowest five percent
Speaker 2: ends up getting an ast infraction if they get ten.
Speaker 2: During the course of the year, fines start to kick
Speaker 2: in and it starts to accumulate quickly, and we don't
Speaker 2: discuss that publicly with anyone the amounts, but they're hefty amounts,
Speaker 2: and what it is, it's just encouraging people to play.
Speaker 2: We're looking like cars on a highway. We don't want
Speaker 2: people going one hundred and we want people going forty.
Speaker 2: We're looking for everyone traveling right around sixty five seventy
Speaker 2: miles per hour going down the highway. And if everyone's
Speaker 2: spaced the same, traffic flows nicely. Things are gonna happen
Speaker 2: during a round of golf. We're gonna have lost balls,
Speaker 2: We're gonna have rulings. These are things that happen that
Speaker 2: don't happen at your club each week, and the average
Speaker 2: person doesn't understand, like why is it taking them five
Speaker 2: hours to play? Well, there's ruling calls, there's drive backs
Speaker 2: to the tee. How often does someone go back to
Speaker 2: the tee at your club when you're playing or you're
Speaker 2: just throwing down in the field.
Speaker 1: They don't.
Speaker 3: They don't have a cart. They got to run back
Speaker 3: that's right. The junior golf days, the junior golf and
Speaker 3: the amateure golf days, the runback of shame. We either
Speaker 3: got to compose yourself after you sprint three hundred yards
Speaker 3: and hit the next teach. It's not a good feeling
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: Of There's a lot of components to pace of play,
Speaker 2: but the biggest component is having the ability to space
Speaker 2: groups out. And that's why we've always preached you know,
Speaker 2: although we're a membership organization, we look at a maximized
Speaker 2: starts at the same time, just understanding that smaller fields
Speaker 2: will provide us the best opportunity to improve pace of play.
Speaker 3: I guess you know where where I'm going to push
Speaker 3: back because obviously I think I'm on a I have
Speaker 3: very well documented my feelings here. But the thing that
Speaker 3: frustrates me the most is that playing slow is rewarded
Speaker 3: on the On the PGA tour, you hear players talk
Speaker 3: about I used to play fast. We heard brooks Ka
Speaker 3: talk about how he realized he was trying to play
Speaker 3: too fast, and that's what he did at Okill. One
Speaker 3: of the changes he made from the Masters to o'kill
Speaker 3: was I slowed down. I just took my time I
Speaker 3: went to the bathroom when I didn't need to go
Speaker 3: to the bathroom. When you talk about the end consumer,
Speaker 3: that's tough to hear. But with the with regards to
Speaker 3: you know, you have this system in place, you can
Speaker 3: identify who the slow players are. They're timed every SHOT's time.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't struck wouldn't the most effective strategy be to to
Speaker 3: dock strokes not fined because with the amount of money
Speaker 3: that's being played for now, these fines are completely inconsequential
Speaker 3: to versus Like a shot or two. I know, if
Speaker 3: I if I saved myself two shots when I'm playing
Speaker 3: well because I play slow, I'm going to make up
Speaker 3: five hundred thousand dollars and that's going to pay for
Speaker 3: all my fines. No matter what the subject, it just
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like all the the considerations are aligned here
Speaker 3: with like the most the only place to me that
Speaker 3: ever is going to dissuade a PGA Tour player from
Speaker 3: playing slow is saying we're taking away shots in this tournament.
Speaker 3: That that to be like, nobody wants to be penalized
Speaker 3: ever in a golf tournament, and that is the ultimate
Speaker 3: versus finds like if I play better because I play slow.
Speaker 3: They're going to pay for themselves.
Speaker 2: At some point, at some point they're going to hurt,
Speaker 2: hurt enough to change your mind, I promise you. And
Speaker 2: it has happened. So finds finds due work, believe it
Speaker 2: or not, it bothered. Even when you're a person that
Speaker 2: makes a lot of money playing. When the finds escalate,
Speaker 2: it gets their attention and it has changed behavior. I
Speaker 2: can speak from experience that there are players who have
Speaker 2: changed their ways when the finds got to be a
Speaker 2: certain amount. But to your other point, the strokes, there's
Speaker 2: a huge inequity there. Okay, so you're a guy who
Speaker 2: is playing brutally slow and you miss the cut, or
Speaker 2: you just make the cut and you get hit with
Speaker 2: one stroke penalty. Doesn't really harm you much. You're another
Speaker 2: guy who's played at a great pace the whole tournament,
Speaker 2: but now coming down the stretch, you're in contention, and
Speaker 2: something happens to you and you're on the clock, your
Speaker 2: group's on the clock, and get you get a couple
Speaker 2: bad times, and all of a sudden, we're hitting you
Speaker 2: with a one stroke penalty. That one stroke penalty could
Speaker 2: cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars if not nowadays
Speaker 2: could cost you a million dollars for that one shot
Speaker 2: if you end up losing by one. Where's the equity
Speaker 2: in that? You know? So you know that's that's kind.
Speaker 1: Of why.
Speaker 2: We look, we won't hesitate to get to that one
Speaker 2: shot and we have given the one shot penalty out. Okay.
Speaker 2: I it's just we believe that there's a big inequity
Speaker 2: there and the way the system is designed to get
Speaker 2: to that point, you'd have to be a fool. I
Speaker 2: mean you've been your group's been warned, okay, and then
Speaker 2: the next step is you don't make up time and
Speaker 2: your group gets put on the clock or you get
Speaker 2: put on the clock individually, and now you're being timed
Speaker 2: and you go over your time. Now I've got to
Speaker 2: come out and tell you that I had you for
Speaker 2: a bad time, and I have to explain to you
Speaker 2: that the next time that happens, it's going to be
Speaker 2: a one stroke penalty. So that's like three or four
Speaker 2: stages that we go through before that, And that's the
Speaker 2: way the system's designed by the players themselves.
Speaker 3: Get I guess, like where I would every other sport.
Speaker 3: What amazes me about professional athletes in general. Is the
Speaker 3: difference between Tom Brady and someone with first round, top
Speaker 3: five pick measurables is the way that Tom Brady is
Speaker 3: able to quickly process coverages and make decisions under the
Speaker 3: gun under the highest pressure situations. To me, one of
Speaker 3: the things about professional golf is that when the pressure
Speaker 3: ratchets up when it is the time to go win,
Speaker 3: I want to see players have to continue to make
Speaker 3: decisions pull the trigger when they are in uncertain times.
Speaker 3: Tom Brady throwing a pass before he knows the receivers
Speaker 3: open in making that play is like a player not
Speaker 3: really sure about the wind having to trust his gut
Speaker 3: and pull the trigger, hit the shot under a stipulated time.
Speaker 3: To me is a more compelling product. And obviously you
Speaker 3: can disagree here, but there's also a physical fitness aspect
Speaker 3: of this. Right If I have to climb the eighteenth
Speaker 3: hill at Riviera and I'm up and I hit the
Speaker 3: shortest T shot and I have forty seconds to play,
Speaker 3: I might be breathing a little bit harder. There is
Speaker 3: a there's a real like when you talk about a
Speaker 3: is golf a sport or is this really like just
Speaker 3: a you know, we can wait and we can wait
Speaker 3: out win until it dies down to hit the shot
Speaker 3: and wait two minutes because I know I'm in the
Speaker 3: last group and I'm not going to get popped for
Speaker 3: this this one time. Like to me, there seems to
Speaker 3: be like a little bit of a clash with pace
Speaker 3: of play and the idea of competition and playing an
Speaker 3: outdoor sport with like with levers that are pulled against
Speaker 3: you as a competitor.
Speaker 2: I agree with every point you're making there. I would
Speaker 2: love to see everyone again. Like I told you, our
Speaker 2: goal is to identify the slowest players, get them to
Speaker 2: understand that the numbers don't lie, that they are a
Speaker 2: slow play and that they need to change. And that's
Speaker 2: that's a big part of our job is to get
Speaker 2: them to understand that we're not looking to make them
Speaker 2: a fast player. I just want you to be an
Speaker 2: average speed player. That's all I'm asking of you. We
Speaker 2: want everyone playing about the same amount of time. You know,
Speaker 2: So I think to your point there is they get
Speaker 2: too cerebral and you're looking for them to be more
Speaker 2: reactionary and be athletes out there make a decision and
Speaker 2: go with it. And I have the same frustrations as
Speaker 2: you at times because I love the product as well,
Speaker 2: and that you know, I'm a fan as well as
Speaker 2: you know working out there, so I want to see
Speaker 2: it go quicker. We all do. But you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's a balance every It's like everything in life. There's
Speaker 2: a balance there, and we've got to get these guys
Speaker 2: to see the numbers and the numbers don't lie. And
Speaker 2: you can give all the excuses you want, but the
Speaker 2: numbers do not lie. You're everyone's being treated the same.
Speaker 2: It's it's mechanized. Now. You can't tell me that it's
Speaker 2: a volunteer that you had, that it was hitting the
Speaker 2: button a little late. It's now a fully automated system
Speaker 2: that is doing it. When someone hits a shot, it
Speaker 2: records right away and then the clock starts on the
Speaker 2: next person. And it's very well thought out system that
Speaker 2: throws out all the bad data in four or five
Speaker 2: different categories. So it's it's holding everyone to the same uh,
Speaker 2: same measurements.
Speaker 3: All right, Let's let's get out of here with a
Speaker 3: few fun questions.
Speaker 2: Now, let's ask some good ones here. Come on, heat
Speaker 2: on me here.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, you know, I don't want to I don't
Speaker 3: want to be like Bryson with anhill.
Speaker 2: You know, here're a couple of layups. Will you.
Speaker 3: What's your what's your favorite golf course to go to
Speaker 3: to set up? Like what what's the place that you
Speaker 3: find is to be for you and your job where
Speaker 3: you nerd out and have the most fun doing a
Speaker 3: tournament at.
Speaker 2: We just came from it. I hate to say it.
Speaker 2: I mean, Pebble beat You can't beat it. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just so beautiful. It can be such a great
Speaker 2: golf course if it's the right time and the conditions
Speaker 2: are right, it can be just an outstanding golf course.
Speaker 2: And it has been. You know, I hate to say it.
Speaker 2: People complain about where we are in the schedule. Well,
Speaker 2: that we've had like stretches of four or five years
Speaker 2: with perfect conditions out there. It's just unfortunate. You know,
Speaker 2: you're going to get a couple now and then with
Speaker 2: this Pineapple Express, El Nino and.
Speaker 3: The mainstream it comes with it.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like I said, it's the price of
Speaker 2: being imperative. It's but that's my I love being at
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach. I love I love working the Masters tournament.
Speaker 2: I mean, such a gorgeous place, great people, everything about
Speaker 2: the event. I really cherish going to the Open Championship
Speaker 2: and the tradition of the Open. Yeah, it's all those
Speaker 2: iconic venues. Very very blessed to do what I do.
Speaker 1: Is there a golf course that you think it hasn't
Speaker 1: been on the PGA Tour, but maybe you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: I would love to see that be a PGA Tour
Speaker 1: venue and might have the space to accommodate some of
Speaker 1: the infrastructure. Any in Young's dream bucket list to add
Speaker 1: this to the PGA Tour rotation.
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know. I've played some
Speaker 2: great courses over in Ireland that just I loved. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys have ever played old
Speaker 2: Head in kin Sale if you If you haven't, you
Speaker 2: put that on your bucket list. You know there's great
Speaker 2: courses over there, Waterville, bally Bunyon. I mean, gosh, Scotland's
Speaker 2: littered with courses. I'd love to see us play and
Speaker 2: see how the guys could do. And who knows. Who
Speaker 2: knows what the future brings. You knows as we as
Speaker 2: we there's a lot of talk about international play in
Speaker 2: the future and maybe that will give us the opportunity
Speaker 2: to go to some of these great, great iconic venues
Speaker 2: and around the world. So yeah, I don't have anyone
Speaker 2: that jumps out.
Speaker 3: Is your least favorite thing to do? Preferred lies? Is
Speaker 3: that your least favorite part of the job. When you
Speaker 3: got an institute preferred lies?
Speaker 2: My least favorite part of the job is interviews. But
Speaker 2: preferred lies it's a necessary evil for professional golf. We
Speaker 2: have to have certain standards and the ability to improve
Speaker 2: your lie within a club length when the golf course
Speaker 2: reaches a point of saturation like we had last week.
Speaker 2: It allows us to continue to play golf right, but
Speaker 2: it also can lead to some scenarios where a player
Speaker 2: can gain a significant advantage. So I understand why. You know,
Speaker 2: some of the major championships are reluctant to ever put
Speaker 2: preferred lies into play. But sometimes you've got to make
Speaker 2: sure that you're going back out onto a golf course
Speaker 2: that you can continue play on. So there's a balance there, all.
Speaker 3: Right, last question, I promise, all right, you're off a
Speaker 3: red eye. We can't ask anymore. What is what is it?
Speaker 3: When you think back to like one ruling, like it's
Speaker 3: the ruling that pops in your head the most often,
Speaker 3: what is it in the history of your career, Like,
Speaker 3: there's got to be one that just like jumps to
Speaker 3: mind every time.
Speaker 2: Well, probably one of the most painful ones was with
Speaker 2: Webb Simpson and this was that the Zurich Classic of
Speaker 2: New Orleans, and web was I think at the time
Speaker 2: he was leading by one shot and I got called
Speaker 2: to the green on I want to say, his whole fifteen, yeah, fifteen,
Speaker 2: and he had put his putter down behind the ball
Speaker 2: and the ball moved. But he had put his putter down,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe in half an inch to an inch
Speaker 2: behind the ball, and it wasn't like you put it
Speaker 2: down firm the way he was describing it to me.
Speaker 2: But at that time, the weight of the evidence went
Speaker 2: against the player. His feet were in the position, in
Speaker 2: the address position. Everything was saying that he was taking
Speaker 2: his address to make the stroke, and it led to
Speaker 2: him being penalized and he ended up losing the tournament,
Speaker 2: and shortly after that the rule ended up changing. Thankfully,
Speaker 2: when accidental movement occurs on the putting green, and thank
Speaker 2: god that has happened, and we've avoided a lot of
Speaker 2: silly penalties through the years where I think it was
Speaker 2: a situation where the ball just hadn't quite settled, you know.
Speaker 2: It was maybe it was on the edge of a
Speaker 2: spike mark or something, or a little spike imprint, and
Speaker 2: it ended up falling and it just did it happened
Speaker 2: to do it while the guy's potter was behind the ball.
Speaker 2: You hated that. That was really hard. And then I
Speaker 2: had one ruling over at the President's Cup years ago
Speaker 2: in Korea that we ended up getting wrong as a committee.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure, and I put it out to the
Speaker 2: committee and we had some of the best rules minds
Speaker 2: in the entire world there on site, and it was
Speaker 2: one of these real obscure ones. We had the one
Speaker 2: ball rule in effect, and Phil Mickelson had changed his
Speaker 2: ball without announcing it to anyone, and it was four
Speaker 2: ball match play, and I told him that I believed
Speaker 2: he was disqualified from the hole, but it didn't disqualify
Speaker 2: as partner, and I put it out over the radio,
Speaker 2: and long story short, in the end, we ended up
Speaker 2: getting it wrong and it affected the match.
Speaker 3: And easiest guy to deal with than that, it was
Speaker 3: just it was.
Speaker 2: Just a really weird, weird moment and to keep my
Speaker 2: head straight for the rest of the match, knowing that
Speaker 2: we had made this blunder and I was a big
Speaker 2: part of it. And you know, in the end, in
Speaker 2: the end, the match ended up being tied. So thank
Speaker 2: goodness it didn't cost anyone, you know, big.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's like I grew up caddying and
Speaker 3: when you're caddying in a club championship match and you
Speaker 3: give like a bad read and that's all you can
Speaker 3: think about like the next like like you're they asked
Speaker 3: you to read another putt and you're like like you
Speaker 3: just like don't even want to step up and read
Speaker 3: the putt because you just you know, you just butchered
Speaker 3: the last read.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a good, good analogy right there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Gary, Where where will we see you next?
Speaker 1: What's uh? And uh?
Speaker 3: Thank you obviously for the time. Coming off of a
Speaker 3: long week here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I'm actually headed to the Mexico Open at
Speaker 2: Vedanta and then the Players Champions following that. So I've
Speaker 2: got a little bit of a break in my schedule
Speaker 2: right now, which is good. I need a little little
Speaker 2: time off, go do something different for a few days
Speaker 2: and get away from golf.
Speaker 3: It's a good time to be in North Florida. Too,
Speaker 3: good time of a year to have a little time.
Speaker 2: I'm headed to Maine. Oh wow, I go snowmobiling up
Speaker 2: in Maine, so I just kind of get away from it.
Speaker 2: I'm here in Massachusetts, so I'll look forward to a
Speaker 2: little break for a few days, regroup, and then come
Speaker 2: back come back at it.
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks so much, Gary, and look forward to
Speaker 3: seeing you at a tournament sometime soon.
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks guys, Thanks for having me on a lot
Speaker 2: of fun.
Speaker 1: Thanks Garry.
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks to Gary Young. That was he was
Speaker 3: more than generous with his time, and he was coming
Speaker 3: off of red Eye. That was a effort as he
Speaker 3: fended off some of our questions and concerns about pace
Speaker 3: of play. Joseph, do you have a recommendation for everybody?
Speaker 1: I do, Andy, And I'm curious if you've watched this.
Speaker 1: So I'm going the golf route actually this week. And
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things to do is watch old
Speaker 1: golf tournaments on YouTube. Generally I watch old editions of
Speaker 1: the Masters, a lot of two thousand and five to
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen nineteen, a lot in that range. I like
Speaker 1: to go back and watch, but recently, I stumbled upon
Speaker 1: I didn't realize the twenty sixteen Open Championship at Royal
Speaker 1: Truon is on YouTube. Went back and watched that, the
Speaker 1: epic duel between Phil Mickelson and Henrik Stenson, all time
Speaker 1: golf tournament. It is a delightful watch. And the added
Speaker 1: bonus is that the Open Championship this year is at
Speaker 1: Royal Truon where it was in twenty sixteen, so helps
Speaker 1: you get prepped for the upcoming Open Championship and you
Speaker 1: get to relive an all time, all time duel between
Speaker 1: two excellent ball strikers. So it was really fun to
Speaker 1: go back and rewatch. That would highly recommend it. Andy,
Speaker 1: have you watched that tournament since twenty sixteen?
Speaker 3: I have not. I remember it vividly. I remember where
Speaker 3: I watched it. I was at I was in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: I remember just like I was, you know, waking up
Speaker 3: at weird hours, West Coast and I just like vividly
Speaker 3: remember watching that golf tournament epic shots go crazy. That
Speaker 3: was a duel. I'm going to go back and watch that.
Speaker 3: That's a good recommendation. I have a recommendation on YouTube
Speaker 3: as well. All right, two YouTube recommendations I am. I
Speaker 3: would say that I'm not like a huge Bryson De
Speaker 3: Shamba fan. That being said, I stumbled across his YouTube
Speaker 3: page recently and I watched the Sergio Garcia Bryson De
Speaker 3: Shambo one club nine hole match. Awesome. It was so
Speaker 3: awesome and I think think it was just like an
Speaker 3: amazing thing to watch Sergio do. As somebody who has
Speaker 3: watched basically Sergio Garcia's entire career, to watch him play
Speaker 3: nine holes with a five iron, they probably and just
Speaker 3: but with a putter, yep, But he used a five iron.
Speaker 3: He was just he hit some just extraordinary shots and
Speaker 3: it makes you just like long for a little bit
Speaker 3: tougher equipment so that you could see guys have to
Speaker 3: hit shots again because he was amazing in this like
Speaker 3: and I think Bryson, like by the end of it,
Speaker 3: Bryson I think got like punched in the face right
Speaker 3: at the start. He was This is not the type
Speaker 3: of golf that Bryson plays. Like shot making, it's very
Speaker 3: you know, this had blasted up there, hit a wedge,
Speaker 3: you know, and this is a way different golf for
Speaker 3: a golf with one club. Bryson uses seven iron but
Speaker 3: by the end of it, Bryson was hitting some really
Speaker 3: cool shots. I thought it was an amazing YouTube video, like, honestly,
Speaker 3: like one of the best, maybe the best golf YouTube
Speaker 3: video I've ever watched. Is this one club match between
Speaker 3: Bryson Deshambeau and uh Sergio Garcia. Awesome golf, Awesome golf shots.
Speaker 3: It's really like, if you're into golf, that's what you
Speaker 3: want to see from a YouTube video.
Speaker 1: I've watched it, I believe. Is it a Austin golf club, Andy.
Speaker 3: Uh No, it's that it's at Spanish Oaks.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, that's right. Yeah, I've watched it. It's pretty short.
Speaker 1: I want to say, it's like an hour and a
Speaker 1: half or maybe not even that long.
Speaker 3: Not even I think it's like forty five minutes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's really see some cool shots. Sergio's working
Speaker 1: the ball both ways. Bryson's like hitting a seven iron
Speaker 1: over trees from like a thing.
Speaker 3: They flopped it flopped, it flopped a seven iron like
Speaker 3: sixty yards over a big tree and stopped on a dime.
Speaker 3: I mean, incredible, some incredible shots.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, it's a good watch. I like that.
Speaker 3: Andy, legitimately some of the best golf shots I've seen
Speaker 3: hit in a long time from Sergio. I'm with you,
Speaker 3: all right. That does it for this show. Big thanks
Speaker 3: to Matt Rusis for producing and editing this podcast. As
Speaker 3: a reminder, we got a huge week in CLUBTF. If
Speaker 3: you're not a member of CLUBTFE, maybe check it out.
Speaker 3: But it's Riviera week. I know Garrett is going to
Speaker 3: get a Riviera profile up sometime this week. On the
Speaker 3: golf course. I did a little one thing about every
Speaker 3: hole at Riviera that'll be up early this week. But yeah,
Speaker 3: if you if you don't yet sign up for CLUBTFE,
Speaker 3: it is one hundred and twenty dollars for the year.
Speaker 3: We also just announced our summer member guest that is
Speaker 3: at an awesome golf course on Long Island. But yeah,
Speaker 3: and you can get access to that if you're a member,
Speaker 3: So big thanks. For more information on CLUBTF go to
Speaker 3: thefridagg dot com slash membership and you can see all
Speaker 3: the all the benefits you get there. But big thanks
Speaker 3: to Joseph for coming on. And we will be back
Speaker 3: later this week with a new episode of the Friday Podcast.