WEBVTT - From the Vault: Trains of Terror, Part 2 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:08.880 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:11.600 name is Robert Lamb. Yes, we're in fall break this week, 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.120 but we have lots of Halloween related content for you. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.239 This is going to be Trains of Terror Part two, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.759 which originally published ten three, twenty twenty four. Continuation of 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:23.720 Trains of Terror Part one, So if you have your 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.720 ticket from that episode, we're going to check that ticket again, 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:32.159 but we're going to continue the ride. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.400 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.960 My name is Robert Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick, 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.080 and we're back with part two in our Halloween season 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:56.400 series on locomotive Horror and Trains of Terror. Now. In 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.880 the last episode, we talked about how trains are often 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.280 used in weird fiction and the kinds of themes that 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:08.680 they emphasize, including things like fate and helplessness, isolation, alienation, 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:14.279 and especially in nineteenth century stories, the irresistible changes brought 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.160 by technology brought on by the steam era, how it 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.960 was transforming the landscape, transforming our culture, and highlighting maybe 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:26.000 the fragility of our minds and bodies. We also talked 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.399 about the various inputs leading to the invention of the 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:34.360 steam locomotive, And finally we got to the Victorian panic 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.640 about railway madness, a belief you'll find attested in a 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.240 bunch of British newspapers from the eighteen sixties through about 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.120 eighteen eighty, according to which it is common for men 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.880 to be driven instantly, violently insane by the vibrations of 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.320 a railway carriage in transit. So that was part one. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.120 If you haven't heard that yet, it's definitely worth a listen, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.520 go back and check that out first. But we're here 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.000 today talk about more that's right. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.120 This week, we're going to be getting into the more 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.280 familiar territory of the ghost train. Though even as I 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.280 say that and I start thinking about potential mainstream examples, 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.760 it's really hard for me to think of a straight 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:20.120 up haunted train in popular media like Polar Express maybe 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:25.799 comes to minds like the most mainstream example. Yeah, is 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:27.760 it just me? Or do we just not actually have 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.480 a lot of stories about ghost trains. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.160 Well, it's interesting that you frame it that way, because 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.480 I was thinking about the ghost train as a concept 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:39.200 and thinking about how, yeah, we have the concept of 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.800 ghosts which are spectral, insubstantial entities that take the form 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.919 of a human I guess sometimes an animal usually human 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.240 understood to be like the soul or the animate image 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.640 of a person who has died. So these are individual 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.480 human entities. They usually move around and I don't know, 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.560 they interact in some kind of sensory capacity. You can 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.000 see them, they make noise and so forth. But then 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:10.560 we also have the concept of haunted houses or haunted locations, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.960 for example a church or a cemetery or a battlefield. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:20.480 These are places where hauntings by individual ghosts happen, most 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.920 often understood to be the location of a tragedy or 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.520 a death, or maybe like a place that the ghost 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.680 frequented frequented in life. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.799 But the house, the haunted house is usually an actual house. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:33.320 I guess. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.040 Maybe there are some versions where ooh, there was never 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.280 a house there at all, it was just a vacant lot. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:39.880 But for the most part it's like, oh, it's the 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.080 old the old McCormick place there. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.440 Yeah, yeah, exactly so. But trains are like in this 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.880 in between realm where they I guess they could sort 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.320 of be both, because on one hand, they are moving entities 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.600 like people, and so they can sort of be a 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.040 moving form that could pass in and out of your awareness. 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.640 And the same time, trains are locations like houses. People 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.440 go inside them, inhabit them. They have rooms and corridors 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.120 and doorways. So a train oddly has the ability to 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.720 be like a wandering ghost itself or like a haunted house. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.080 And I was trying to think, is there any equivalent. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.760 I guess like a ship, like a you could have 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.360 a ghost ship or a haunted ship. Though, like you 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.520 were saying, or I think you were alluding to this, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.080 most of the ghost train Lord that I'm aware of 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.080 and that I could turn up and research for this 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:38.560 episode seems to be about beliefs about a spectral train 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.000 that you believe you see passing as an outside observer, 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.960 not a physical train that you get on board and 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.480 then believe to be haunted like a haunted house. The 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.640 latter is possible in concept, it just seems like there's 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:54.240 less of that. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.240 Yeah, I think it is probably an idea that is 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.880 infected by these other concepts, Like you said, haunted house, 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.919 the haunted domicile, and a train is kind of a 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.680 place that you live. It is an environment, but it's 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.760 also a vehicle, and we have a long legacy of 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.400 ghost ship stories. But it's interesting because that doesn't really 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.400 line up one hundred percent because with the idea of 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.599 a ghost train, because with ghost ships you have, of 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.080 course tales of a flying Dutchman and you know, everything 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.680 from a haunted unoccupied vessel maybe it has Dracula on 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.360 it and so forth, or a straight up spectral vessel. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.640 But then a lot of this is based on the 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:37.680 historic reality and even contemporary reality of ships that have 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.039 even been damaged or abandoned or something terrible has happened 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.200 and they are left to be moved around on the 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.279 water by wave and wind, something that isn't really in 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:53.080 the cards for a train, you know, especially in the 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.560 modern air, but even historically, like if you had an 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.919 unknown train moving around and it was a physical reality, 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.800 bad things would happen pretty quickly. And yes, the idea 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.880 does tie into fears of those things happening, and I 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:08.480 think a lot of the examples you can look at 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:15.719 of ghost trains are tied to either memories or anxieties 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.239 concerning train accidents. But yeah, it doesn't really it seems 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.600 to be influenced by all these other concepts but also 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.160 it doesn't line up one with any of them either. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.920 M M yeah, I think that's right. This is kind 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.000 of a tangent. But this also because the train has 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.680 this potential duality that it could be like a haunted 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:38.479 house or like a like a ghost itself. It was 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.800 making me think about the different moral understandings we have 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:46.880 of individual ghostly entities versus haunted locations in horror fiction, 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.200 because I don't know, maybe maybe you have some counter 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.040 examples to this, but I was thinking that in most 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:59.560 horror stories, individual ghosts, though they invoke fright, are usually 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.120 looked on with pity once you know their story. They 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.200 are usually said to be victims in some way, people 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:11.040 who suffered, whereas haunted locations are often characterized as evil 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.640 or malicious in themselves. There's this idea that like a 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.920 haunted house is a bad place. It's like the Overlook hotel. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:20.920 The hotel is evil. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:21.960 Yeah. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.040 Yeah, And yet while a train could be a location 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.200 like this haunted house that you often think of as 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.640 a bad place. When I read through all this ghost 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.120 train lord, I don't get that feeling like, oh the 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.560 ghost train, Ooh that's wicked, it's bad, it's malicious. Instead, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.720 it has more the character of the individual wandering ghost. 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.400 It's something that may be frightening but is mainly to 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.480 be kind of pitied to tell a sad story about. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.120 Yeah, that's the impression I get as well. So we'll 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:51.760 keep that in mind as we roll through some of 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.160 the specific examples here, and perhaps out there there's a 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.680 wish well we'll touch on this again, but there are 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.600 there are a lot of ghost train stories out there. 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.080 There's a lot of train related urban legend. So we 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.320 have things that have been circulating for a while, and 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:09.880 you know, stories that are just kicking up. Perhaps, So 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.000 if you were familiar listener with a story of a 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.000 malicious ghost train, or just any ghost train story that 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.320 we don't mention here, or if you have additional thoughts 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.360 on things we mentioned here, obviously write in because we 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:20.880 would love. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.000 To hear from you. Absolutely contact at stuff to Blow 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.960 your Mind dot com. Please share with us your local 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.440 ghost train story, especially if there's something unusual about it. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.760 Now, before we get into specific ghost trains and ghost 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.920 train stories, I do want to just kind of an 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.760 overview of what seemed to me to be sort of 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:45.360 like three definite types of ghost trains to consider. Okay, okay, 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.760 So the first type we'll come back to this one 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.200 in some specifics here shortly, is the idea of just 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.680 lights and or sounds of trains on or near the 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.440 tracks that never materialize. The idea that I hear the 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:00.760 sound or I see the like to a train that 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.440 should not be here, and then that train never arrives. 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.720 But it causes you a lot of anxiety because, oh, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:08.760 if there's not supposed to be a train here right now, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:09.560 that's a bad thing. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.079 You know, this ties into you. And I were looking 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.319 at an example of a play about a ghost train 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.120 off Mike. We ended up not getting into it in 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.680 our outline really here, but there's a play called The 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:26.600 Ghost Train by an author named Arnold Ridley, which turns 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.240 out to have a quite bizarre twist where there's like 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.000 a story of a ghost train and then it turns 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:36.760 out to be like a communist counter espionage thriller. But anyway, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.319 I think that story was said to be inspired by 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.680 the author's experience of being stuck at a train station 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.839 at night and hearing what sounded like a train approaching 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.720 and thinking it was arriving to pick him up, but 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.360 then it just like seeming to pass without him ever 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.120 seeing it. And the explanation is the train was there 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.120 was a train coming by him, but it was being 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.120 diverted along a different track that was. So he's like 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.720 in the night hearing a train approach and then leave, 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.000 but never sees anything. 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:12.160 You know, the approach of a train is kind of haunting, 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:16.640 almost supernatural occurrence in some ways, you know, because you're 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.400 standing there and perhaps you hear just like that initial 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.839 hum of the rails, maybe the air is suddenly a 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:26.560 little bit different. You get to get to get some 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.520 of that sort of underground air coming at you if 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.640 you're in a subway system, all ahead of the actual 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.920 roar of the train, the lights of the train, and 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.959 so forth, there are a lot of subtle hints leading 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.319 up to the arrival, all right. So that that's the first, 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:48.160 you know, rough categorization for ghost trains. The second one 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.280 I want to highlight are just straight up overtly creepy 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.400 or ghostly trains, straight up spectral trains, trains with ghosts 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.480 on them that are sometimes connected to railway disasters, but 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.160 sometimes to other mishaps and tragedies and so forth. And 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.440 then there's this third area and this is empty trains 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:12.800 witnessed moving down the tracks. And this is a category 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.560 that is going to include both. Just straight up, here's 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.360 a train. It doesn't look like it as people on it, 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.080 but it is a physical train. And also, here's a 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:24.920 train that is you know, there's nothing suspects about who's 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.280 piloting it. We know it's either we can see the 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.600 human or we know that this is an automated rail system, 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.640 whatever the case. But why is there a train with 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.040 no people on it? Why is it stopping and letting 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.320 no one out and then continuing on its way. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.240 You know, it's funny how this connects to the idea 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.640 of the ghost ship which you were talking about, could 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.880 be inspired by sightings of real ships that were saying 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.440 people have abandoned them. And you see a ship drifting 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.440 in the waves with nobody on it. That's a very 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.880 chilling site. But that would be a real thing people 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.880 would observe in various situations. Obviously, a train is a 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:00.840 little bit different because it's the train isn't going to 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.880 be completely abandoned and drifting on the waves. It needs 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.920 to be moving for some reason, like somebody's got to 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.080 push a button to make it go, but it may 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.839 in fact be empty of passengers, and just like seeing 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.120 through the windows and seeing it empty can be a 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.040 creepy site. 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.360 Yeah, absolutely, you know, thinking about the trains that go 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.520 by directly by my house. There's the Marta Train, the 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:27.120 public transportation train system here in Atlanta, and sometimes there 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.960 are empty train cars that are going by because you 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.160 know that one's done for the night. And then there's 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:38.160 the CSX line, and this is freight, not passengers. Though 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.560 at least on one occurrence, I did see some empty 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.800 passenger trains on the tracks. I think they were being 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.080 I assume they were being moved somewhere, you know, either 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.520 I don't even remember how nice they looked. Maybe they 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.559 were brand new being moved somewhere to go into service, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.360 or they were being retired or scrapped or something. But 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.480 you know, there is something potentially creepy about seeing this 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.720 space that is made for people, devoid of people, but 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.840 still in motion, as if it's going somewhere but without people. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.480 A lot of horror movies used to great effect the 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.600 empty subway train. You know, the subway arrives in the station, 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.320 the door is open, there's nobody in sight, Nobody on 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.320 the train. It is a creepy feeling. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.360 Now. I was reading a bit more about this idea 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.840 of ghost trains, and there is this unofficial classification for 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.280 a ghost train, at least in Britain, that has nothing 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.240 to do with hauntings. And these are trains, according to 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.679 Amanda Rugeri and Why Britain Has Secret Ghost Trains twenty 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.560 fifteen BBC, these are low frequency routes that often entail 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.640 mostly empty, if not entirely empty cars, and this is 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.920 a reality that the author describes as being due to 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:50.920 a quote bureaucratic hangover. 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.640 Okay, so these are trains that are operating normally. They're 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.440 just like they haven't adjusted to the fact that there 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.360 is little or no demand for travel along the route 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.720 where they're they're going. That's correct. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.079 She goes on to write, there is no single definition 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.040 of what constitutes a ghost train, although the general consensus 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.800 is that it's when a service is so infrequent the 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.680 train becomes effectively useless, slippery or not. Though the term 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.880 ghost train seems apt, it implies a service that is 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.200 not exactly whole, something that whispers through towns and countryside, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.840 leaving barely a dent in its wake, And it's really 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.320 interesting to read about these because a lot of a 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.680 lot of people don't you know, aren't even a where 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.840 that these exist. Perhaps, But there are hobbyists, ghost train 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.240 hunters they call themselves, who seek these out. They try 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.200 and find these lines or these particular trains, and sometimes 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.600 they run at strange hours, and you know they're stopping. 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.200 It stops their way out out in the middle of 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.720 nowhere and so forth. But they kind of like pride 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.640 themselves on hunting them down and getting their pictures made 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.160 on them or with them. But as the article explains, 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.280 these trains are are often legal placeholders to keep a 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.120 line from being closed. Absolutely the sort of lines that 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.680 are mostly useless currently, but it would be controversial to 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:16.440 close them. It would be perhaps bureaucratically expensive or require 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.160 a lot of effort to close them. And another big 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:24.120 fact is, of course, you know, populations don't stay the same. 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.000 You know what, maybe a ghost station and a ghost 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:32.440 train line today could be vitally important, say five years 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.360 from now, ten years from now, as population shift and 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:39.320 new communities develop and so forth. The more official name 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.720 for these are parliamentary trains, since in the past and 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.320 at any rate, it took an act of Parliament to 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:50.400 shut down a line, so against speaking to the amount 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:52.360 of effort that it would go you'd have to go 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:56.000 to to actually close one of these. There, of course 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.560 corresponding parliamentary ghost train stations again, and these are also 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.920 sought out by hobbyists, and these trains and these groups 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.600 are still very much around, so I would love to 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.840 hear from any ghost train hunters out there. I also 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.400 have to note that, especially with subway systems, there are 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.600 various examples of ghost stations that are no longer in use, 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:21.680 often for logistical reasons or expansion reasons, such as the 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.680 famous City Hall station in New York City, noted for 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.880 its Romanesque revival architecture. Sometimes stations such as this are 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.160 used on tours or they're repurposed, And yeah, there's something 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.960 captivating about the idea of such places, stops that are 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.600 on the line but no longer stops, human spaces that 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.480 have literally been carved out of the interior of the 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.120 earth but are just no longer used by human beings. 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.040 And you know, after I was putting together my notes 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.720 on this section, I was walking back to my house 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.560 from a place that I was working remotely, and as 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.760 luck would have it, I was walking right past a 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.760 ghost tunnel of the Marta rail system here in Atlanta. 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.199 There's about two hundred feet of tunnel, originally built for 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.760 a Tucker North to cabline expansion that was never completed. 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.600 Now just a yawning urban cave amidst other track structures. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.119 And I really don't think i'd noticed this until yesterday. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.920 I looked up and there's a there's a YouTube page 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.160 called V twelve Productions that does a lot of stuff 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.920 on trains and also some stuff on like urban and 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.359 Atlanta architecture and so forth. They did a nice video 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.679 on it about six years ago. So now I know 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:43.040 all about this kind of haunting cave, this unnatural human 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.760 made cave in the earth, just you know, a stone's 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:46.600 throw from where I live. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.000 Did you take this photo in our outline here? 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.000 I did not. I've thought a lot of people have 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.639 sought this out. I think some people were doing a 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.720 little sneaking around to get in there and get closer, 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.439 because there's it's not just the tunnel, there's also a 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.800 length it's like, what do you call it, a trench 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.720 that was constructed too, Like basically the situation was they 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:15.399 were building out the Marta bridgework overhead, and if they 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.199 were going to do this line, they would need to 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.520 make the tunnel now rather than later. It would be 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.480 just so much cheaper to go ahead and build the 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.440 tunnel early than to do it later once everything else 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:27.359 was built up around it. 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.440 The steep cutting in the earth is reminding me of 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.240 that haunting descriptive passage from the signalman, right. You know, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.400 there's just the strip of sky and seeing the stone 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.679 on either side the damp walls. But it's one of 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.080 these visions that's both gloomy and beautiful at the same time. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:58.240 Yeah, Now getting into some more examples of like straight 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:02.679 up ghost trains, actual spectrum trains, haunted trains, trains associated 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:07.000 with ghosts or supernatural creatures. We're going to turn briefly 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.199 here once more to Japan. I want to add the 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.640 caveat that again. There are so many ghost train traditions 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.000 around the world, and some of them are rather popular, 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:17.800 but we ultimately had to focus on ones that maybe 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.359 had just a little more in some cases, a little 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.080 more scholarship around them, or just a few more just 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:24.959 interesting things to point out because some of them are 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.800 just like, hey, there's a ghost train rides around. We're 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.040 not sure where it's going, where it's coming from. Maybe hell, 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.960 we don't know, And you know those are fun and 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.800 that maybe there's less meat to chew on. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:38.280 There for us. 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.080 But anyway, there are a few different traditions in Japan, 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.600 one of which concerns the legendary tanukis of Japan. We've 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:51.040 discussed these before you have. These are the youkai versions 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:55.720 of the actual Japanese raccoon dog, which, to be clear, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.600 are far more closely related to dogs. They are part 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.720 of the kind of day family, so they are there 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.439 essentially dog can. They are not raccoon can except in 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:08.640 a very distant sense. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.199 They look like raccoons, though they've got that kind of 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:13.400 head shape and coloration. 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.760 Now, if you've ever watched the excellent nineteen ninety four 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.960 Studio Ghibli film Pom Poko, then you know all about 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.280 these guys, and if you haven't, you should go watch it. 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.160 It's I believe it's on Max in the States, and 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.720 it's excellent, taking viewers into the world of shape shifting 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:34.760 by way of their testicles. Bake danuki. These are yokai 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:40.760 tanuki supernatural tanuki and their struggles alongside a changing, modernizing world. 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.600 And this last bit is a common theme in tanuki lore, 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:49.159 especially during the Meiji era. The tanuki are a symbol 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.120 of the folkloric wilds of rural life. The traditional tanuki 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:57.000 statue also entails multiple symbols for good luck, and you'll 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.480 find them in both rural and urban Japanese neighborhoods today, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.919 in front of homes and so forth. In Pandemonium and 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:09.399 Parade Japanese Monsters and the Culture of Yokai, Michael Dylan 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.960 Foster describes ways in which the tanuki and the locomotive 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.879 stand in stark opposition to each other. So you know, 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.959 reminder here the first Japanese rail line opened in eighteen 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.840 seventy two and remains an impressive and highly connected form 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:26.280 of public transportation. There. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.600 Yeah, but I recall reading and by the way, Michael 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.080 Dylan Foster is a folklorist I've cited on the show before. 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.960 His book of Yokai is great, but I think I've 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.960 seen him write that there was some on record, some 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:46.520 ambivalence about the edition of the Railroad to Japanese life. 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.400 Yeah, yeah, and that seems to be reflected in these 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:55.520 tales of the Tanuki. They're sort of two main legends 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.320 slash accounts to take into account here concerning the uki 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.600 and the train, and they both occur where these two 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.119 worlds meet, you know, the world of the folklore, magical 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:13.400 wild and this rapidly modernizing world. So you know, imagine 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.959 a lonely train track running through the wilderness in Japan. 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.600 And and you're if if you're aboard one of these trains, 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.080 or maybe you're working on the rail, or maybe you're 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:27.560 at some sort of like very rural train station and 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.000 suddenly you hear the sounds or you see the lights 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.719 of an oncoming train, well that's a cause for alarm 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.760 for all the reasons we've cited so far. So if 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:39.920 you're if you're if you're on a boarded train, perhaps 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.359 you slow or stop. If you're working, well, then you know, 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.280 you freak out. You try and get in touch with 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.160 with with the folks and let them know that there's 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:49.960 some sort of unexpected train on the track. But then, 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.360 as is the case with ghost trains, sometimes it never 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:56.760 shows up. It becomes clear that this was a false alarm, 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.159