WEBVTT - Give Ireland Back to the Irish

0:00:14.824 --> 0:00:22.064
<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Hi everyone, it's Paul muldoon. Before we get to

0:00:22.144 --> 0:00:24.784
<v Speaker 1>this episode, I wanted to let you know that you

0:00:24.864 --> 0:00:29.384
<v Speaker 1>can binge all twelve episodes of McCartney A Life and

0:00:29.464 --> 0:00:35.184
<v Speaker 1>Lyrics right now, add free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber.

0:00:35.904 --> 0:00:40.224
<v Speaker 1>Find Pushkin Plus on the McCartney A Life and Lyrics Show,

0:00:40.304 --> 0:00:48.224
<v Speaker 1>pedge in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm, slash plus.

0:00:49.464 --> 0:00:52.344
<v Speaker 2>The organizers of this civil rights march promised that they

0:00:52.384 --> 0:00:53.904
<v Speaker 2>would be non body.

0:00:57.184 --> 0:01:01.024
<v Speaker 3>There seemed to us to be a perfectly peaceful demonstration

0:01:01.704 --> 0:01:06.064
<v Speaker 3>that had gone wrong, and that our army boys had

0:01:06.384 --> 0:01:10.704
<v Speaker 3>acted indiscriminately and fired on innocent period.

0:01:11.344 --> 0:01:13.584
<v Speaker 2>The army have said throughout the day that they hope

0:01:13.624 --> 0:01:16.824
<v Speaker 2>to use minimum force, But three hours after the procession began,

0:01:17.144 --> 0:01:19.424
<v Speaker 2>this has ended up as Comes onto the bog Side,

0:01:19.544 --> 0:01:22.824
<v Speaker 2>as the worst ever confrontation between the Army and the

0:01:22.824 --> 0:01:24.984
<v Speaker 2>Catholic people of the Kragan and Bog Side.

0:01:25.984 --> 0:01:28.984
<v Speaker 3>It just seemed so sort of wrong to me that,

0:01:29.144 --> 0:01:34.304
<v Speaker 3>even though I wasn't a writer of protest songs, I

0:01:34.504 --> 0:01:37.584
<v Speaker 3>just felt I had to try and say something about this.

0:01:38.544 --> 0:01:46.224
<v Speaker 4>Why didn't you just give Alan back to the big.

0:01:52.624 --> 0:01:55.864
<v Speaker 1>I'm Paul mill doon for a while now, I've been

0:01:56.104 --> 0:01:59.744
<v Speaker 1>fortunate to spend time with one of the greatest songwriters

0:02:00.104 --> 0:02:01.344
<v Speaker 1>of our era, and.

0:02:01.344 --> 0:02:04.264
<v Speaker 3>Will you look at me, I'm going on to I'm

0:02:04.304 --> 0:02:06.064
<v Speaker 3>actually a performer.

0:02:05.904 --> 0:02:09.424
<v Speaker 1>That is Sir Paul McCartney. We worked together other on

0:02:09.464 --> 0:02:11.744
<v Speaker 1>a book looking at the lyrics of more than one

0:02:11.824 --> 0:02:16.184
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty of his songs, and we recorded many

0:02:16.264 --> 0:02:18.144
<v Speaker 1>hours of our conversations.

0:02:18.384 --> 0:02:21.624
<v Speaker 3>It was like going back to an old snapshot album

0:02:21.784 --> 0:02:26.544
<v Speaker 3>looking back on work I hadn't ever analyzed.

0:02:26.864 --> 0:02:33.024
<v Speaker 1>This is McCartney, A life in lyrics, a masterclass, a memoir,

0:02:33.584 --> 0:02:37.784
<v Speaker 1>an improvised journey with one of the most iconic figures

0:02:37.784 --> 0:02:42.864
<v Speaker 1>in popular music. In this episode give Ireland Back to

0:02:42.984 --> 0:02:49.024
<v Speaker 1>the Irish, one might well ask who had taken Ireland

0:02:49.344 --> 0:02:55.864
<v Speaker 1>from the Irish. When Ireland gained independence from England in

0:02:55.944 --> 0:03:00.664
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty two, the northern region of the island remained

0:03:00.984 --> 0:03:06.864
<v Speaker 1>under British rule. Those who felt Northern Ireland should continue

0:03:06.944 --> 0:03:10.064
<v Speaker 1>forever as a part of the United Kings Kingdom were

0:03:10.104 --> 0:03:14.264
<v Speaker 1>known as loyalists, and so for decades they were locked

0:03:14.264 --> 0:03:18.664
<v Speaker 1>in conflict with Republicans, those who wished for a united

0:03:18.744 --> 0:03:24.824
<v Speaker 1>Ireland with no tie to Great Britain. This was all

0:03:25.064 --> 0:03:30.064
<v Speaker 1>further complicated by centuries of antagonism in the country between

0:03:30.224 --> 0:03:35.904
<v Speaker 1>Catholics and Protestants, and had burst into political violence in

0:03:35.944 --> 0:03:41.744
<v Speaker 1>the late nineteen sixties and seventies, a period called the Troubles.

0:03:43.384 --> 0:03:47.984
<v Speaker 1>British soldiers were installed in border towns and the Northern

0:03:48.024 --> 0:03:53.744
<v Speaker 1>Ireland capital of Belfast. The mainly Catholic Irish Republicans who

0:03:53.824 --> 0:03:57.704
<v Speaker 1>lived in Northern Ireland came to fail that they resided

0:03:58.104 --> 0:04:03.624
<v Speaker 1>under a kind of occupation. On Sunday, the thirtieth of

0:04:03.704 --> 0:04:09.944
<v Speaker 1>January nineteen seventy two, British soldiers shot twenty six un

0:04:10.104 --> 0:04:14.584
<v Speaker 1>armed civilians at a peaceful protest in the northern Irish

0:04:14.584 --> 0:04:22.464
<v Speaker 1>city called Derry. Several of the victims were shot while

0:04:22.544 --> 0:04:27.624
<v Speaker 1>fleeing from the soldiers, and others were shot while trying

0:04:27.664 --> 0:04:30.624
<v Speaker 1>to help the wounded. There's an image from that day

0:04:30.664 --> 0:04:34.144
<v Speaker 1>of a priest, father Daily, moving through the crowd with

0:04:34.184 --> 0:04:37.984
<v Speaker 1>this white handkerchief held out as a flag of truce.

0:04:38.424 --> 0:04:42.104
<v Speaker 1>That's absolutely seared on my mind's eye.

0:04:42.624 --> 0:04:44.304
<v Speaker 2>Father, how many dead have you seen in the box

0:04:44.304 --> 0:04:45.904
<v Speaker 2>side appearing.

0:04:45.504 --> 0:04:46.144
<v Speaker 3>You to be dead?

0:04:46.184 --> 0:04:48.424
<v Speaker 4>There are the three in that Saracen card. There are

0:04:48.864 --> 0:04:50.744
<v Speaker 4>two men laying at the end of this block of flats.

0:04:50.744 --> 0:04:52.904
<v Speaker 4>There's another man at least very close to being dead.

0:04:52.944 --> 0:04:54.984
<v Speaker 5>There's one, there are two others up there.

0:04:55.784 --> 0:05:01.344
<v Speaker 1>Fourteen people die. The incident became known as the bog

0:05:01.504 --> 0:05:04.904
<v Speaker 1>Side massacre or Bloody Sunday.

0:05:05.664 --> 0:05:08.504
<v Speaker 3>There was immediately a cover up. No, they wanted listen

0:05:08.584 --> 0:05:12.384
<v Speaker 3>throughout rifles they're all there. But when you saw the

0:05:12.384 --> 0:05:16.744
<v Speaker 3>footage of it all, it just looked yeah, and they

0:05:16.784 --> 0:05:19.864
<v Speaker 3>could have just left these people to be And if you've.

0:05:19.704 --> 0:05:22.184
<v Speaker 4>Been shot then maybe you know.

0:05:22.824 --> 0:05:27.344
<v Speaker 3>But it seemed to me like it was a reasonable demonstration,

0:05:28.344 --> 0:05:31.744
<v Speaker 3>the kind of which had been happening in the black

0:05:31.784 --> 0:05:36.864
<v Speaker 3>communities and then all sorts of communities throughout recent history

0:05:36.864 --> 0:05:41.664
<v Speaker 3>and throughout history. So I was kind of shocked by

0:05:41.704 --> 0:05:47.544
<v Speaker 3>this whole idea, mainly that our soldiers had perpetrated this,

0:05:47.624 --> 0:05:49.864
<v Speaker 3>because up until that point I thought our boys were

0:05:49.864 --> 0:05:50.944
<v Speaker 3>all great.

0:05:51.584 --> 0:06:06.624
<v Speaker 6>I was great supporter, you are to me, nobody does that.

0:06:03.864 --> 0:06:13.144
<v Speaker 3>Really what I do? Across the see, I just startedn't

0:06:13.144 --> 0:06:17.464
<v Speaker 3>worry a minute. You know what if there were Irish

0:06:17.504 --> 0:06:22.624
<v Speaker 3>soldiers behaving that way in Liverpool where I was growing up,

0:06:22.624 --> 0:06:25.464
<v Speaker 3>and you couldn't go here, you couldn't go there because

0:06:26.184 --> 0:06:29.744
<v Speaker 3>these soldiers were God's armed soldiers were.

0:06:29.624 --> 0:06:31.024
<v Speaker 4>Going to stop you going down the street.

0:06:33.064 --> 0:06:34.424
<v Speaker 6>What do you lie.

0:06:36.584 --> 0:06:39.904
<v Speaker 4>If on your where to work.

0:06:41.544 --> 0:06:45.344
<v Speaker 5>You were stop restals?

0:06:46.944 --> 0:06:48.424
<v Speaker 6>Would you lie down?

0:06:49.584 --> 0:06:50.384
<v Speaker 3>Do you know them?

0:06:52.104 --> 0:06:52.704
<v Speaker 2>Would you give?

0:06:58.424 --> 0:07:01.104
<v Speaker 4>And so it just seemed so sort of wrong to me.

0:07:02.104 --> 0:07:04.304
<v Speaker 3>Why aren't you going to United Island and get down

0:07:04.344 --> 0:07:24.384
<v Speaker 3>because to sort it out.

0:07:26.504 --> 0:07:29.824
<v Speaker 1>Even though the Beatles were writing in the nineteen sixties

0:07:30.104 --> 0:07:34.264
<v Speaker 1>during what seemed like a renaissance of protest music, they

0:07:34.264 --> 0:07:39.104
<v Speaker 1>had never released a song that was overtly political. After

0:07:39.144 --> 0:07:43.344
<v Speaker 1>the dissolution of the Beatles, however, McCartney went to New

0:07:43.464 --> 0:07:46.184
<v Speaker 1>York and paid a visit to John Lennon and Yoko

0:07:46.184 --> 0:07:50.584
<v Speaker 1>Ono in Greenwich Village, where political art was very much

0:07:50.744 --> 0:07:52.384
<v Speaker 1>part of the zeitgeist.

0:07:53.504 --> 0:07:56.824
<v Speaker 7>This song is called The Luck of the Irish, and

0:07:57.344 --> 0:07:59.464
<v Speaker 7>the proceeds from this song and record will go to

0:07:59.504 --> 0:08:03.424
<v Speaker 7>the Civil Rights Defense in North Island, Civil Defense, whatever

0:08:03.424 --> 0:08:03.824
<v Speaker 7>it's called.

0:08:04.664 --> 0:08:08.024
<v Speaker 1>John and Yoko had written The Luck of the Irish

0:08:08.224 --> 0:08:11.864
<v Speaker 1>at the end of nineteen seventy one, inspired by a

0:08:11.944 --> 0:08:15.704
<v Speaker 1>protest they attended the year before in support of the

0:08:15.744 --> 0:08:17.424
<v Speaker 1>Irish Republican Army.

0:08:18.384 --> 0:08:23.504
<v Speaker 8>If you had the luck of the Herridge you'd be

0:08:23.864 --> 0:08:29.224
<v Speaker 8>sorry and wish you were dead. You should have the

0:08:29.544 --> 0:08:35.504
<v Speaker 8>luck of the herriage, and you'd wish you was English instead.

0:08:36.984 --> 0:08:41.504
<v Speaker 1>In early nineteen seventy two, in a furious response to

0:08:41.544 --> 0:08:47.064
<v Speaker 1>the Bogside massacre, John and Yoko also wrote Sunday Bloody Sunday.

0:08:48.384 --> 0:08:53.064
<v Speaker 8>For Sunday, bloody Sunday when the shot the people left

0:08:53.904 --> 0:08:56.064
<v Speaker 8>to cry a thirty miles.

0:08:55.944 --> 0:08:58.264
<v Speaker 7>To build a breed very head?

0:08:59.304 --> 0:09:03.024
<v Speaker 8>Is there any one amongst you? Instead of payment on

0:09:03.264 --> 0:09:05.584
<v Speaker 8>the kids not sold yet?

0:09:05.784 --> 0:09:11.664
<v Speaker 1>I was deeded when they live. McCartney was similarly furious

0:09:11.704 --> 0:09:16.864
<v Speaker 1>about the British soldiers unprovoked attack on Irish civilians, even

0:09:16.904 --> 0:09:21.184
<v Speaker 1>though he's rarely found anger to be generitive for his art.

0:09:21.784 --> 0:09:26.544
<v Speaker 3>I realized this actually, that sometimes I really want to

0:09:26.584 --> 0:09:31.744
<v Speaker 3>sit down and write a song that sums up my

0:09:32.984 --> 0:09:38.224
<v Speaker 3>dismay and anger at the political situation that I read

0:09:38.264 --> 0:09:40.984
<v Speaker 3>about every bloody Moore, you know, and I read about

0:09:41.744 --> 0:09:44.384
<v Speaker 3>politicians saying this and this and this and this.

0:09:44.904 --> 0:09:49.144
<v Speaker 4>It's like, God, what twork? This guy is a complete idiot,

0:09:49.264 --> 0:09:49.464
<v Speaker 4>you know.

0:09:50.184 --> 0:09:53.704
<v Speaker 9>So I'll sit down and think, Okay, you are an idiot.

0:09:54.584 --> 0:09:57.744
<v Speaker 9>But I can't do it. It doesn't really work. I wrote,

0:09:57.744 --> 0:10:01.104
<v Speaker 9>the song was called angry. It was an attempt at that,

0:10:01.224 --> 0:10:04.544
<v Speaker 9>but it's not angry, you know. It seems to be

0:10:04.624 --> 0:10:08.904
<v Speaker 9>something I can feel in myself. I can't easily tran

0:10:09.104 --> 0:10:11.184
<v Speaker 9>slate that into a.

0:10:13.344 --> 0:10:19.384
<v Speaker 4>Song. Yeah, so that's not one of my genres.

0:10:20.224 --> 0:10:24.264
<v Speaker 1>McCartney may not feel protest music is an easy genre

0:10:24.384 --> 0:10:28.304
<v Speaker 1>to access, but Give Arland Back to the Irish is

0:10:28.384 --> 0:10:34.424
<v Speaker 1>a passionate protest song. Instead of focusing on anger and accusations, though,

0:10:34.864 --> 0:10:39.104
<v Speaker 1>the song is an appeal for empathy, asking the British

0:10:39.344 --> 0:10:42.144
<v Speaker 1>to imagine themselves in Irish shoes.

0:10:43.424 --> 0:10:43.944
<v Speaker 3>Tell me.

0:10:45.424 --> 0:10:46.664
<v Speaker 8>What do you lie?

0:10:48.944 --> 0:10:51.424
<v Speaker 4>If you too?

0:10:51.584 --> 0:10:51.824
<v Speaker 2>Well?

0:10:53.904 --> 0:10:57.664
<v Speaker 4>You wis the results?

0:10:59.304 --> 0:11:00.224
<v Speaker 6>Would you lie down?

0:11:04.464 --> 0:11:05.064
<v Speaker 5>Would you give?

0:11:18.784 --> 0:11:22.104
<v Speaker 1>McCartney wrote Give Ireland Back to the Irish from the

0:11:22.144 --> 0:11:27.624
<v Speaker 1>British perspective, but the conflict in Ireland must have struck

0:11:27.704 --> 0:11:32.664
<v Speaker 1>a personal chord due to his family's Irish roots. In fact,

0:11:32.904 --> 0:11:38.704
<v Speaker 1>the two opposing signs represented in the troubles were replicated

0:11:38.864 --> 0:11:40.784
<v Speaker 1>within McCartney's own household.

0:11:41.224 --> 0:11:46.344
<v Speaker 4>My mom was Catholic, being more Irish than my dad.

0:11:46.384 --> 0:11:49.264
<v Speaker 3>My dad was like Liverpool Irish when a few generations back.

0:11:49.504 --> 0:11:52.304
<v Speaker 3>My mom was a bit more recent right.

0:11:52.264 --> 0:11:55.544
<v Speaker 4>From Ireland, and so she was Cathy.

0:11:55.624 --> 0:12:05.544
<v Speaker 3>My dad was Protestant, must be free.

0:12:18.224 --> 0:12:20.384
<v Speaker 5>Do you mean it looks like me because I look Irish?

0:12:20.624 --> 0:12:24.144
<v Speaker 4>What it means is no, not really.

0:12:24.184 --> 0:12:26.944
<v Speaker 3>I was thinking that deeply into it when I see

0:12:26.984 --> 0:12:29.824
<v Speaker 3>that now as I'm kind of rereading it.

0:12:30.424 --> 0:12:34.184
<v Speaker 4>No, I was more meaning that it could be me. Yes,

0:12:34.224 --> 0:12:35.704
<v Speaker 4>it could be this guy. This could be me.

0:12:35.784 --> 0:12:39.224
<v Speaker 3>You know, if we're talking about England where we were,

0:12:40.064 --> 0:12:41.944
<v Speaker 3>how would you like it if on your way to work?

0:12:43.144 --> 0:12:46.544
<v Speaker 3>So as a moment looks like me. There's just a

0:12:46.584 --> 0:12:50.344
<v Speaker 3>way of saying, you know, he's it's just like you.

0:12:50.424 --> 0:12:52.984
<v Speaker 3>I could have said, or it's just like you and me.

0:12:53.224 --> 0:12:56.144
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he's not other an mean.

0:13:05.024 --> 0:13:08.704
<v Speaker 1>As I revisited this song, I couldn't help but think

0:13:08.704 --> 0:13:13.664
<v Speaker 1>about my own childhood in County armyor just one county

0:13:13.784 --> 0:13:18.424
<v Speaker 1>over from County Monaghan, where Paul McCartney's family had lived.

0:13:18.704 --> 0:13:20.304
<v Speaker 4>Were you involved in the troubles?

0:13:21.744 --> 0:13:23.344
<v Speaker 5>Not as an active participant?

0:13:24.024 --> 0:13:25.104
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:13:25.104 --> 0:13:32.584
<v Speaker 3>No, No, who was around about that time wouldn't be

0:13:32.584 --> 0:13:34.064
<v Speaker 3>in consumable.

0:13:34.024 --> 0:13:36.624
<v Speaker 5>No, not at all. It could easily have happened, honestly.

0:13:36.864 --> 0:13:40.064
<v Speaker 5>But my mother, I think very like your mother, was

0:13:40.104 --> 0:13:45.264
<v Speaker 5>a very protective person and she wanted us to do

0:13:45.464 --> 0:13:47.584
<v Speaker 5>well in the world, and she didn't want us to

0:13:47.624 --> 0:13:50.024
<v Speaker 5>get involved in these guys who were done at the end.

0:13:49.944 --> 0:13:50.504
<v Speaker 4>Of the lane.

0:13:53.864 --> 0:13:56.984
<v Speaker 1>This period of history has of course crept into my

0:13:57.064 --> 0:14:01.184
<v Speaker 1>own poetry. That a poem, for example, called Ireland, which

0:14:01.224 --> 0:14:07.704
<v Speaker 1>goes as follows Ireland, the Volkswagen part in the gap,

0:14:08.384 --> 0:14:14.504
<v Speaker 1>but gen ticking over. You wonder if it's lovers and

0:14:14.544 --> 0:14:20.464
<v Speaker 1>not men hurrying back across two fields and a river

0:14:23.664 --> 0:14:27.144
<v Speaker 1>with that somewhat ominous feel at the end there of

0:14:27.824 --> 0:14:32.544
<v Speaker 1>men probably armed, probably up to no good, going about

0:14:32.584 --> 0:14:37.224
<v Speaker 1>their business in the country, and the river of course

0:14:37.544 --> 0:14:41.304
<v Speaker 1>representing the separation of those two fields.

0:14:41.944 --> 0:14:46.624
<v Speaker 3>So when you talk about that in your poems, yes,

0:14:46.704 --> 0:14:49.184
<v Speaker 3>you're recounting stuff.

0:14:49.504 --> 0:14:51.824
<v Speaker 1>Just while I was there being a person on the

0:14:51.824 --> 0:14:54.304
<v Speaker 1>street with it all happening around you.

0:14:54.464 --> 0:14:54.664
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:14:55.624 --> 0:14:55.984
<v Speaker 3>City.

0:15:12.064 --> 0:15:15.424
<v Speaker 1>Paul McCartney was still on his trip to New York

0:15:15.704 --> 0:15:20.544
<v Speaker 1>when he heard news of Bloody Sunday. He rushed to

0:15:20.824 --> 0:15:23.944
<v Speaker 1>organize a recording of the track with some of the

0:15:24.024 --> 0:15:28.064
<v Speaker 1>musicians from his new band Wings. It was the first

0:15:28.304 --> 0:15:33.544
<v Speaker 1>Wings recording that included the guitarist Henry McCullough, who was

0:15:33.624 --> 0:15:36.704
<v Speaker 1>himself a Northern Irishman, so.

0:15:36.704 --> 0:15:39.864
<v Speaker 3>He made the record, and then I sent it over

0:15:39.904 --> 0:15:44.464
<v Speaker 3>to EMI. Immediately got a phone call from Sir Joseph Lockwood.

0:15:44.744 --> 0:15:48.944
<v Speaker 3>It was the head of AMI, but Sir Joe, he said.

0:15:48.904 --> 0:15:51.904
<v Speaker 4>Paul, you can't put this record out of the Irish situation.

0:15:52.304 --> 0:15:53.464
<v Speaker 4>I said, look, said, Joe said.

0:15:53.504 --> 0:15:58.024
<v Speaker 3>The thing is, I'm not really a protest songwriting, but

0:15:58.224 --> 0:16:00.984
<v Speaker 3>this is a factory deeply, and I feel like I've

0:16:01.024 --> 0:16:01.944
<v Speaker 3>got to say something.

0:16:02.464 --> 0:16:05.584
<v Speaker 4>He said, oh, record, please don't put it out. Reconsider.

0:16:06.304 --> 0:16:09.344
<v Speaker 4>So I gave it a couple of days and just

0:16:09.424 --> 0:16:10.584
<v Speaker 4>ran back. No.

0:16:10.664 --> 0:16:12.624
<v Speaker 3>You know, I've got a p said, it'll be banned,

0:16:12.704 --> 0:16:21.344
<v Speaker 3>It'll get banned. No good, Oka, I've got microstraate. This

0:16:21.504 --> 0:16:26.624
<v Speaker 3>thing was big enough event in my history, in my

0:16:26.784 --> 0:16:30.624
<v Speaker 3>country's history, to take some kind of a style.

0:16:40.104 --> 0:16:46.224
<v Speaker 1>Joseph Lockwood's concerns about the song were perhaps vindicated. When

0:16:46.264 --> 0:16:50.024
<v Speaker 1>the song was released, The BBC Radio Luxembourg and other

0:16:50.384 --> 0:16:55.784
<v Speaker 1>organizations banded from broadcast. It was too provocative, they said,

0:16:56.264 --> 0:17:02.144
<v Speaker 1>too controversial. Most radio stations in the United States also

0:17:02.624 --> 0:17:03.944
<v Speaker 1>avoided playing the song.

0:17:04.384 --> 0:17:07.224
<v Speaker 10>The British Broadcasting Corporation will play your song.

0:17:07.704 --> 0:17:08.744
<v Speaker 4>What do you think about that?

0:17:09.624 --> 0:17:11.504
<v Speaker 10>I think they're silly, you know, I think any kind

0:17:11.544 --> 0:17:14.384
<v Speaker 10>of repression like that. You know, it always ends up

0:17:14.424 --> 0:17:18.784
<v Speaker 10>in the person who is being banned getting more out

0:17:18.824 --> 0:17:21.024
<v Speaker 10>of it than the people who ban it. Witnessed this,

0:17:21.184 --> 0:17:22.944
<v Speaker 10>you know, you want an interview about it. It's such

0:17:22.984 --> 0:17:24.144
<v Speaker 10>big news because they ban.

0:17:24.144 --> 0:17:24.664
<v Speaker 4>It and all that.

0:17:25.064 --> 0:17:29.744
<v Speaker 1>On an ABC special report, McCartney was explicit in his

0:17:29.864 --> 0:17:32.584
<v Speaker 1>support of the Irish nationalists.

0:17:33.704 --> 0:17:36.504
<v Speaker 5>You think the British should get.

0:17:36.304 --> 0:17:39.624
<v Speaker 10>Out, Yeah, you know, eventually, that's what I think.

0:17:39.704 --> 0:17:41.944
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I was brought up to be proud of it.

0:17:41.984 --> 0:17:45.304
<v Speaker 10>You know, the British Empire obviously own most of the

0:17:45.304 --> 0:17:48.384
<v Speaker 10>world at one time, almost gradually had to sort of

0:17:48.384 --> 0:17:51.104
<v Speaker 10>give it back because people said, hey, listen, it's ours,

0:17:51.144 --> 0:17:53.544
<v Speaker 10>you know, not yours, and they want to back Well,

0:17:53.584 --> 0:17:55.624
<v Speaker 10>I just see that's the same thing in Ireland. You know,

0:17:55.664 --> 0:17:58.224
<v Speaker 10>it's a little bit of territory we've gained in the past.

0:17:58.464 --> 0:18:00.544
<v Speaker 10>And I think there's Bloody Sunday, you know, where the

0:18:00.584 --> 0:18:04.624
<v Speaker 10>British parachute Regiment went in and sort of shot at

0:18:04.664 --> 0:18:08.184
<v Speaker 10>the people. Me as a British citizen, I don't like

0:18:08.264 --> 0:18:11.784
<v Speaker 10>my army going around shooting my Irish brothers. In a way,

0:18:11.864 --> 0:18:14.104
<v Speaker 10>if people are shooting at them, they can't just sit

0:18:14.144 --> 0:18:17.104
<v Speaker 10>there and not shoot back, you know. So whilst I

0:18:17.144 --> 0:18:19.344
<v Speaker 10>don't dig it, it's inevitable, you know that if they

0:18:19.384 --> 0:18:20.944
<v Speaker 10>get shot at, they'll shoot back.

0:18:21.784 --> 0:18:25.704
<v Speaker 1>Give Ireland Back to the Irish may have been banned

0:18:25.784 --> 0:18:31.024
<v Speaker 1>in Britain and overlooked in America, but in Ireland it

0:18:31.144 --> 0:18:35.464
<v Speaker 1>hit number one on the charts. It also curiously hit

0:18:35.544 --> 0:18:38.864
<v Speaker 1>number one in Spain, where McCartney believes it may have

0:18:38.984 --> 0:18:44.624
<v Speaker 1>resonated with the Basque struggle for self determination. Much of

0:18:44.664 --> 0:18:48.024
<v Speaker 1>the violence surrounding the Troubles came to an end with

0:18:48.104 --> 0:18:53.144
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen ninety eight Good Friday Agreement, which restored self

0:18:53.184 --> 0:18:58.704
<v Speaker 1>government to Northern Ireland, but the aftershocks of Bloody Sunday

0:18:59.144 --> 0:19:05.184
<v Speaker 1>still reverberate, and they raise questions about what, if any,

0:19:05.264 --> 0:19:09.024
<v Speaker 1>punishment should be faced by those involved in the killing.

0:19:09.104 --> 0:19:14.104
<v Speaker 11>Yes, it was a moment where, you know, there was

0:19:14.104 --> 0:19:19.744
<v Speaker 11>a sense that art could respond to that situation, which

0:19:19.864 --> 0:19:23.664
<v Speaker 11>either way is a situation still hasn't really been resolved.

0:19:24.344 --> 0:19:25.584
<v Speaker 4>Bloody something itself.

0:19:25.664 --> 0:19:46.744
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, I know this is a very thorny issue.

0:19:48.264 --> 0:19:51.984
<v Speaker 1>Give Arland Back to the Irish a single released by

0:19:51.984 --> 0:19:57.784
<v Speaker 1>Paul McCartney and Wings in February nineteen seventy two. In

0:19:57.904 --> 0:19:59.384
<v Speaker 1>the next episode.

0:19:59.624 --> 0:20:04.024
<v Speaker 3>John, being older and at art school, would go to

0:20:04.224 --> 0:20:09.064
<v Speaker 3>art school parties, which NNT George normally wouldn't have an

0:20:09.344 --> 0:20:14.744
<v Speaker 3>entree into. But I remember going to one and I

0:20:14.784 --> 0:20:18.984
<v Speaker 3>took my guitar, so I'm sitting enigmatically in the corner

0:20:20.104 --> 0:20:24.864
<v Speaker 3>with my black pole and neck sweater. I remember sort

0:20:24.864 --> 0:20:30.824
<v Speaker 3>of lounging around and trying to look interesting to this

0:20:30.984 --> 0:20:40.544
<v Speaker 3>older crowd to One of the weapons that I used

0:20:41.504 --> 0:20:47.944
<v Speaker 3>was to play this sort of frenchy sounding song and

0:20:48.064 --> 0:20:55.784
<v Speaker 3>sort of make gottural noises, kind of half thinking that

0:20:55.824 --> 0:20:58.584
<v Speaker 3>someone will think, well, he's French.

0:20:58.744 --> 0:21:09.984
<v Speaker 1>Probably Michelle. That's next time on McCartney A Life in Lyrics.

0:21:11.464 --> 0:21:15.424
<v Speaker 1>McCartney A Life in Lyrics is a co production between

0:21:15.584 --> 0:21:19.744
<v Speaker 1>iHeartMedia NPL and Pushkin Industries.