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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Monday edition of the Daily Juice podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your house, Matt Paroltier, I'm a betting pros dot

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Speaker 1: com and it is the long version. It's a Monday.

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Speaker 1: Coming up a conversation with the director of Trading from FanDuel,

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Speaker 1: John Shearon. He's going to join us, talking everything sports gambling,

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Speaker 1: about how FanDuel introduced a bunch of new ideas and

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Speaker 1: options in the New Jersey market and has since spread

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Speaker 1: across multiple opportunities in different states now and they're looking

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Speaker 1: to grow even bigger. How the European model has influenced

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Speaker 1: the American sports betting options here, and an update as

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Speaker 1: to what's going to happen this year in Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 1: Some news if you bet with FanDuel, you may like

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Speaker 1: what John Cheron's going to tell you coming up here

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Speaker 1: from Major League Baseball when it comes to the postseason.

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Speaker 1: So stay tuned for that conversation coming up here in

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Speaker 1: just a couple of minutes. But the Picks podcast, HM,

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Speaker 1: let's get back on the winning track, all right. So

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Speaker 1: over the weekend we went four and two with our

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Speaker 1: plays overall, though it was not a good week all right.

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Speaker 1: So we went eleven and eighteen. I picked probably a

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Speaker 1: couple of two. I probably bet too much to be

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Speaker 1: quite honest, but we did not do well. Look, that's

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Speaker 1: our second losing week and it happens, right. We have

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Speaker 1: losing weeks. We've had bad weeks, went three and nine.

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Speaker 1: In week two we went eleven and eighteen. Here we're

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Speaker 1: gonna try to get back on the winning track. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna try to get things rolling in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: But we've got to make some better plays. So three

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Speaker 1: plays coming at you here today. Before we talked to

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Speaker 1: John Cheran from FanDuel too in baseball in one in

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Speaker 1: the NBA, But quickly before we do that, just to

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Speaker 1: recap on golf, which was horrible. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: happened to Brooks Koepka. When you're going south man Brooks

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Speaker 1: keepsko was in a prime spot and he just played pathetically.

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Speaker 1: On Sunday, he finished his way off the pace. Patrick

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Speaker 1: Cantala did make the cut on the number, but after

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Speaker 1: playing well on Saturday, he did not play well on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: So Brooks kept going to come in the top ten

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Speaker 1: at plus one fifty. That did not hit Patrick Canteley

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Speaker 1: to come in the top twenty at plus one twenty

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Speaker 1: that also did not hit. And then the Astros did

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Speaker 1: not win against the A's. They continued to be pathetic.

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Speaker 1: So I tried to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

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Speaker 1: I tried to go five and zero, and I tried

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Speaker 1: to get some plus money, and those three wagers would

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Speaker 1: have actually finished the week, we would have won. We

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Speaker 1: would have been in the money positive money if we

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Speaker 1: had actually hit on all three, but we lost on

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Speaker 1: those three. We did get two hockey bets right with

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Speaker 1: the brilliant under five and a half goals that happened

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Speaker 1: in their game against the Capitals.

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Speaker 2: Easy easy win there.

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Speaker 1: And then first period for Columbus in Toronto, another fifth

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Speaker 1: consecutive game that the first period under hit for Columbus

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Speaker 1: in Toronto won. Nothing was the final score after one,

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Speaker 1: so that cashed for us as well. So a good

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Speaker 1: weekend betting hockey, not really great anything else. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: pause my golf betting for a while because the numbers

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Speaker 1: are really ugly, and I'll probably have some updated numbers

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Speaker 1: as to how I'm doing in different sports. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: try to pull some numbers. Given my golf numbers, they're

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Speaker 1: just not good. I'm really good in hockey, I'm really

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Speaker 1: good in the UFC. I'm just not good in golf.

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Speaker 1: So Monday means new week. Let's turn the page, fresh

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Speaker 1: sheet of paper, and let's get going here with three

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Speaker 1: picks for you. We have two coming up here in

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, in one for the NBA. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with the Twins and the Milwaukee Brewers. So this is

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Speaker 1: a interesting battle of right handers. Randy Dobnick goes to

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Speaker 1: the mound with a two to one record in a

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Speaker 1: point six ERA eight. K's Adrian Hauser want to zero

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Speaker 1: with a point seventy five ERA in nine. K's Houser

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Speaker 1: was great in his last outing, seven scoreless against the

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Speaker 1: White Sox, became the first Brewers pitcher, according to MLB

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Speaker 1: dot Com in twenty twenty, to pitch seven complete frames.

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Speaker 1: Dobnak pitching very well down the stretch. He beat the

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Speaker 1: Pirates in his last start six shutout innings, and the

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Speaker 1: rookie has allowed one run in fifteen innings so far.

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Speaker 1: For the Twins, here's what's wild about the Brewers. They

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Speaker 1: are twenty fifth in batting average, they are twenty fourth

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Speaker 1: in run scored. Their offense is garbage right now, and

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Speaker 1: it continues to be garbage. They're five and seven on

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Speaker 1: the year. They've had a couple of games where they've

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Speaker 1: busted out, but I hate their offense. Christian Yelich, I

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Speaker 1: just don't like what we've seen at all out of

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Speaker 1: this lineup for the Milwaukee Brewers. And you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: they turn a corner, maybe they start hitting the ball

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Speaker 1: at some point, but right now they've just been bad,

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Speaker 1: really bad. The Twins have lost four straight games, and

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Speaker 1: even though the Twins still are fourth in runs in

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, they're third in home runs, they're sixteenth

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Speaker 1: in batting average, and they've been scuffling mightily.

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Speaker 2: Four consecutive losses.

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Speaker 1: Now, I think I have a lean on the Twins

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Speaker 1: to win this game, but I don't like the Brewers offense,

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Speaker 1: and I don't like the way the Twins are swinging

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Speaker 1: the bat. Because things have been going against us, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna try to do my best to limit the variables

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Speaker 1: and just kind of bet on what I know is

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. A week before I think is gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Most likely thing is gonna happen. I think both these

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Speaker 1: teams are gonna struggle to score runs. The totals eight

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Speaker 1: and a half. It's too high in my mind for

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Speaker 1: these two offenses, even though the bullpens can get hit

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Speaker 1: and give up some runs. I'm gonna play the under

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Speaker 1: eight and a half runs here for the Brewers and

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Speaker 1: the Twins, under eight and a half at minus one ten.

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Speaker 1: Second baseball game, Padres and the Dodgers. Here is Garrett Richards,

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Speaker 1: who has a four point six to zero ERA, Dustin

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Speaker 1: May who's looked really good, one to zero, two point

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Speaker 1: six three eras whoops a little high.

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Speaker 2: Approaching one point two.

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Speaker 1: But these are offensive baseball teams in primetime, the Dodgers

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Speaker 1: in the Padres. Man, oh man, you take a look

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Speaker 1: at some of their offensive numbers right now. Look at

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Speaker 1: home runs. The Dodgers are tied for the Yankees for

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Speaker 1: Major League leading twenty seven home runs, and they hit

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Speaker 1: a bunch of home They're hitting about one and a

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Speaker 1: half home runs every home game right now. But the

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Speaker 1: Padres right behind them have hit twenty three home runs.

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Speaker 1: Fernando Tetis Junior has done incredible things that the plate.

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Speaker 1: I love this lineup for the Padres right now. It

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Speaker 1: is just it's on fire right now. I love what

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Speaker 1: they've been able to accomplish over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: Look at the number of hits for this team. For

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Speaker 1: the Padres, I mean they're doing a great job driving

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Speaker 1: runners in. They're in the top fifteen for that run scored.

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Speaker 1: Here for the Padres their second, the Dodgers are first.

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Speaker 1: These are the two most offensive teams in baseball. The

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Speaker 1: total is eight and a half and I know Dustin

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Speaker 1: May's on the mound, so it might be a little

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Speaker 1: bit dangerous because the Dodgers pitching might hold the Padres down.

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Speaker 1: But I'm gonna play the over here. Over eight and

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Speaker 1: a half runs Dodgers and the Padres to offensive teams

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Speaker 1: in an offensive ballpark in prime time with the ESPN cameras.

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Speaker 1: Rolling Padres Dodgers over eight and a half runs is

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Speaker 1: my second play in baseball coming up here on a Monday,

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Speaker 1: and my final play before we hear from John Chieran

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Speaker 1: from fan Duel and get to our interview.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the only game that I think.

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Speaker 1: Really matters, or at least that I'm interested in watching,

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Speaker 1: coming up on Monday. It's an early game, okay, this

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Speaker 1: is an early start to thirty Eastern time, eleven thirty

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Speaker 1: Pacific time, Suns thunder. So here's what happened over the

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Speaker 1: weekend in case you missed it. We have eliminated two teams.

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Speaker 1: New Orleans and Sacramento are out from the playoff conversation,

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Speaker 1: so watch out for their games. San Antonio, Phoenix, Portland, Memphis.

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Speaker 1: Those four teams are separated by one and a half games.

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Speaker 1: We now have an automatic guarantee play in series which

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Speaker 1: will happen coming up, but we don't know who. The

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Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns are five and oh in the bubble, and

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Speaker 1: they're five and oh against the spread in the bubble.

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Speaker 1: They've got three games left. Portland, San Antonio and Memphis

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Speaker 1: have two games left. Okayse might be resting a bunch

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Speaker 1: of players coming up today and Steven Adams might not play.

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Speaker 1: The Suns need to win and the Suns are playing

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Speaker 1: with a fire right now that I haven't seen from

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Speaker 1: this team in a long long time.

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Speaker 2: They are a.

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Speaker 1: Dangerous, dangerous team with a lot of offensive weapons. But

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Speaker 1: here's the problem. OKAC is the best team against the

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Speaker 1: spread here in the NBA still, Okay, even though they've

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Speaker 1: scuffled a little bit here, you still have Chris Paul.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little dangerous. It's a little scary when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at this minus five for the Suns. Five

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Speaker 1: is a big number against the best team against the

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Speaker 1: spread in the NBA. I know this is gonna be expensive,

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Speaker 1: but man, I just because of where I'm at, I

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Speaker 1: normally don't recommend laying one ninety for juice, and that's

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Speaker 1: what I got it at.

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Speaker 2: But I'm gonna bet it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the Suns on the money line at

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Speaker 1: minus one ninety, and they very well might cover the

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Speaker 1: five point line, and you might go ahead and say,

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Speaker 1: but five points to me, reeks of a last second

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Speaker 1: free throw or a last second jump shot, three pointer

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Speaker 1: or whatnot, that ends up blowing our bet. And simply

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Speaker 1: because we've been so bad, we've been so bad picking

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Speaker 1: games over the last week, I'm just gonna go with

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Speaker 1: what I think is the most likely of all things,

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Speaker 1: is that a win will happen here because it's an

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Speaker 1: important game for the Suns.

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Speaker 2: They've got to.

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Speaker 1: Win to keep going, and if they don't, they could

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Speaker 1: be finding themselves in deep, deep trouble. So young team,

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Speaker 1: they're really fired up, they're really motivated, We'll see what

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Speaker 1: happens coming up here for the Suns on the money

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Speaker 1: line against OKAC, laying minus one ninety. Those are our

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Speaker 1: three plays here on a Monday's Daily Juice. We're going

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Speaker 1: over Padres Dodgers. We're going under Twins Brewers both at

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Speaker 1: eight and a half, and we're taking on the money

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Speaker 1: line the Suns just to win out right over OKAC.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully it's a laugher and an easy victory. If you

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Speaker 1: want to lay the miles one ten, that's too expensive.

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Speaker 1: You can lay the five points here and lay the

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Speaker 1: one ten. But I'm just gonna lay the juice at

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Speaker 1: mouse one ninety, not sweat the points. Just Phoenix Suns

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Speaker 1: win the game, period.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: Beat OKAC and keep pace here in the Western Conference playoffs.

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Speaker 1: Okayse's already in and they very well might be resting

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Speaker 1: a bunch of key players like Steven Adams coming up here.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how many minutes you know, Chris

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Speaker 1: Paul is going to play in this game either. So

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Speaker 1: those are our three plays. Now, we do have an

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Speaker 1: offer to tell you about when it comes to FanDuel

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Speaker 1: Sports books. Before we hear from John Shearon, New Sports

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Speaker 1: will be awarded a free bet of up to five

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars at FanDuel. Once that deposit is approved, players

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Speaker 1: can make their first bet. If they lose, FanDuel reimburse

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Speaker 1: the amount of the wager in betting credits. If they're successful,

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Speaker 1: Scimpally sign up, deposit and you're automatically ordered a free

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Speaker 1: first bet up to five hundred dollars. You must deposit

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Speaker 1: at least you must deposit at least ten dollars. Know

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Speaker 1: it in seven days from the moment that you first

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Speaker 1: sign up for the FanDuel sportsbook account. So very simple.

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Speaker 1: Go to bettingpros dot com, click on the fandual logo

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Speaker 1: on the right hand side. That'll take you right to

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Speaker 1: that offer to click through. So you're set to go

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Speaker 1: from Bettingpros dot com for that five hundred dollars offer

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Speaker 1: from FanDuel. We had a great conversation with John Sharon,

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Speaker 1: the director of Trading from fandrol. This is an incredibly

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Speaker 1: smart guy who we spent some time breaking down FanDuel's

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Speaker 1: introduction to the sports gambling world here in America, his

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Speaker 1: expectations going forward and what he also sees in the

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Speaker 1: future here in America, and some tips as well as

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Speaker 1: to how can you become a better sports gambler. John

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Speaker 1: Cheran from FanDuel join me here on the Daily Juice

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Speaker 1: Podcast for a Monday us now here on the Daily

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Speaker 1: Juice Podcast, it's our time to go in depth with

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Speaker 1: experts in the industry who know a lot about sports gambling.

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Speaker 1: We're talking to John Cheering today. He is the director

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Speaker 1: of Trading for FANDO. Joining us here on the Daily

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Speaker 1: Duce John matparolto are you.

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Speaker 3: Good math, Thanks very much for having me on, but

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Speaker 3: excited to get on so looking forward to our chat.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on.

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Speaker 1: All right, So, for those people who might not know

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Speaker 1: your background, might not know your history, what's a quick bio.

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Speaker 1: How did you get into the industry? How long you've

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Speaker 1: been involved in this fun game of sports gambling?

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Speaker 3: Oh man, it's such a long story. I don't know

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Speaker 3: where to start. Effectively, when I left school, I got

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Speaker 3: into a life assurance industry and the guy that they

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Speaker 3: put me with to train me in who's now one

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Speaker 3: of my best friends and husband for the last twenty years.

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Speaker 3: He was a professional sports better and a bookmaker in Ireland,

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Speaker 3: really centered around greyhound racing, so he kind of got

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Speaker 3: me on board with it. I worked for him for

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Speaker 3: the years that I was living in Dublin, work basically

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Speaker 3: on the track with a bookmaker. Track started off obviously

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Speaker 3: as the clerk riding books into a ledger and recording

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Speaker 3: all the bets as they came in. Obviously being able

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Speaker 3: to calculate kind of exposure on a runner by runner basis,

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Speaker 3: and that kind of got me grounded in probability and

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Speaker 3: odds and being able to do kind of questions quickly

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Speaker 3: in my head, and obviously that kind of gave me

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Speaker 3: a good grounding for the industry that obviously fast forward

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Speaker 3: to today we're so new in the US, but obviously

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Speaker 3: a really really mature market in Europe. My background in

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Speaker 3: terms of odds making is completely centered around horse racing.

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Speaker 3: You know. I always had a really big interest in

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Speaker 3: US sports, but predominantly in US horse racing. So that's

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Speaker 3: kind of where all of the background falls into where

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Speaker 3: we are today. With obviously FANDU, I've been in padding

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Speaker 3: power in betfair and smaller independence in Ireland as well,

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Speaker 3: So twenty years rooted in trying to figure out what

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Speaker 3: the right probability of a horse wing or race amount.

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Speaker 1: Effectively, so you were attracted to it from a match standpoint,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a sports standpoint.

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Speaker 2: Am I hearing that right?

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Speaker 3: That's kind of where my grounding came from, the mathematics

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Speaker 3: of it. But effectively, sports has been in my body

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Speaker 3: since I've been a tiny kid. A lot of soccer,

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Speaker 3: a lot of golf, a lot of Irish Gaelic football.

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Speaker 3: Basically any sport that you can name is probably something

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Speaker 3: that I spent far too much time watching.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the marketplace, in how you see the

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Speaker 1: American sports gambling market, are we progressing towards the European model?

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you seeing in five ten years the

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Speaker 1: similar things that Europe has had for a year, which

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Speaker 1: is basically kiosk gambling inside of different arenas and having

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Speaker 1: the ability to bet on a variety of different options.

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Speaker 2: The expansion of the market.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I look at some of the some of

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Speaker 1: the ways that Europe the bets that are available.

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Speaker 2: And I'm envious.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm here in Las Vegas and I feel

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Speaker 1: like sometimes I'm living in the dark ages compared to

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Speaker 1: what all the parts of the world have been doing.

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Speaker 1: Do you see the US market following the same path

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Speaker 1: to get closer to Europe in the near future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I really don't look at it like

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Speaker 3: Europe and the US. Obviously regulation is different here and

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Speaker 3: much more stringent. The kind of idea of controlling it

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Speaker 3: on a state by state basis is somewhat alien to us.

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Speaker 3: But after that, I think consumers are consumers, and they

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Speaker 3: want opportunity, They want bet types, they want to be

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Speaker 3: able to construct and be involved in the part of

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Speaker 3: whatever game it is that they're watching, regardless of the sports,

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Speaker 3: and not be forced down avenue. So our whole ethos

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Speaker 3: has been giving better's choice, and as long as we

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Speaker 3: continue to do that, I think we'll do really, really

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Speaker 3: well in the marketplace. We've got a brand that's synonymous

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Speaker 3: with US Betters and kind of their psyche in the US,

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Speaker 3: and then with a supporting infrastructure around giving people choice,

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Speaker 3: I think is the secret. I really don't look at

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Speaker 3: it like you said, in terms of Europe VERSUS America.

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Speaker 3: I think Betters here in the last eighteen months and

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Speaker 3: two years since we've been live, I've shown a real

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Speaker 3: big aptitude for betting them one which kind of yes,

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Speaker 3: we knew everyone was betting, you know, offshore or whatever,

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Speaker 3: Vegas or had opportunities with their local books to be

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Speaker 3: able to bet anyway, but it really surprised me the

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Speaker 3: scale of that. You know, we came here with this

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Speaker 3: idea that we need to explain everything to betters, and

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Speaker 3: that absolutely wasn't the case. From the first day we

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Speaker 3: opened the Meadowlands and New Jersey Math, people knew what

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Speaker 3: they were doing. So we just furnished them with choice

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Speaker 3: and try and scale on our market offering as big

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Speaker 3: as we can and give people the different options to

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Speaker 3: be able to pick what they want to bet on.

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Speaker 3: That's effectively my job.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that middle end opening in what happened

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey because initially people did not know, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a race between you and another company, and then

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Speaker 1: you guys that I mean, we have a long way

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Speaker 1: to go here. This is a marathon on a sprint,

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Speaker 1: but you guys have done a great job of kicking

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Speaker 1: over the marketplace, over our large market share of New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: How are you guys able to grow and how are

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Speaker 1: you if you thought people, you know, when you opened up,

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Speaker 1: you didn't know how educated the public was. Were you

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Speaker 1: able to kind of throw gasoline on the fire and realize, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we don't have to spend time educating the public. We

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Speaker 1: can just start now offering options that make us more

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Speaker 1: attractive to the public.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's that's the key mat is. It

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Speaker 3: really was just centered around trying to be as supportive

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Speaker 3: of what the consumer wanted, trying to innovate as quickly

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Speaker 3: as we could. And look, we had teething pains. We

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Speaker 3: had to get live in six weeks effectively, from when

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Speaker 3: Possible was repealed in May of twenty eighteen. It's us

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Speaker 3: actually being on the ground here on the fourteenth of

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Speaker 3: July and open. So of course we were going to

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Speaker 3: have issues. Of course we were going to have problems.

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Speaker 3: You know, we had to deal with a brand new

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Speaker 3: wagering platform that none of us had ever used, that

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Speaker 3: we had to integrate our trading feeds into. We had

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Speaker 3: to mobilize an awful lot more quickly than what people

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Speaker 3: may even realize or care about, frankly, and we did

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Speaker 3: a pretty good job of that. Yes, there was some

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Speaker 3: teething pains like a touchdown. But you know, fundamentally, it

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Speaker 3: was really just about giving betters a different perspective of

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Speaker 3: what betting and US sports looked like. You know, this

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Speaker 3: idea that people wanted a better side or a total

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Speaker 3: and sit there for four hours watching a baseball game.

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Speaker 3: You know, very quickly I realized that the case here.

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Speaker 3: People wanted opportunity, you wanted choice, wanted in game wagering,

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Speaker 3: which has been a massive growth area for US here

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Speaker 3: obviously in Europe and Australia where we have brands already

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Speaker 3: we knew that was the case, but kind of the

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Speaker 3: speed that the US consumer moved to it kind of

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Speaker 3: surprised me so much.

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Speaker 1: Was there a sport that jumped off the page? You

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Speaker 1: ever say football was going to be gigantic because it's America.

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Speaker 1: We love our version of football, not the real version

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Speaker 1: of football, but our version of football. But were you

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Speaker 1: surprised at the level of other sports initially coming out

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Speaker 1: of the gate, either college football, NBA, Major League baseball?

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Speaker 1: Were you surprised at the handle that you were taking

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Speaker 1: in outside of the big one being football.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, Look, from my perspective, we had a

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Speaker 3: really good grounding in both football and NBA. The two

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Speaker 3: of those sports are really material to the European business

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Speaker 3: and NBA in particular to the Australian businesses that we

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Speaker 3: had under our brands, and I felt like we were

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Speaker 3: in a really strong position. We feel like we've got

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Speaker 3: the best offering on those sports in the world. We've

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Speaker 3: got more markets than anybody else. We allow betters to

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Speaker 3: do same game parlays where they can create a parley

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Speaker 3: on a Monday night football, for example, you don't have

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Speaker 3: to you know, just pick a sider total and have

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to bet at minus one ten either side.

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Speaker 3: So I thought we were well forward and where we

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Speaker 3: wanted to be for those two sports. I think we

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Speaker 3: were a little bit behind in baseball and in hockey.

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Speaker 3: Hockey generally, though it is quite surprising in terms of

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Speaker 3: even Las Vegas, you know, six seven eight percent most

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Speaker 3: you'll ever take in a year in terms of percentage

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Speaker 3: you're in total handle on hockey. So we've got a

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Speaker 3: bit of work to do on those two. But the

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Speaker 3: ones that really surprised us, I guess were college and

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Speaker 3: not really because they represented what they did, but more

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Speaker 3: so in the areas and up here, particularly in the

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Speaker 3: northeast on the coast that we're kind of more heavily

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Speaker 3: prevalent right now. It did surprise me how much demand

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Speaker 3: there was for college sports, and I see it as

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Speaker 3: one of our key kind of focus areas moving forward

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Speaker 3: in terms of not taking it from supply outside, but

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Speaker 3: actually doing a really good job internally and bringing compilation,

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Speaker 3: odds making, and then also the trading of that in

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Speaker 3: house as well as we look to kind of grow

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Speaker 3: the opportunity for people to bet on college It really

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Speaker 3: surprised me that somewhere in the region of twenty five

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Speaker 3: to thirty percent of games are the only it is

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Speaker 3: the amount that is offered in game wagering seventy percent,

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Speaker 3: and yes they tend to be smaller games, but seventy

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Speaker 3: percent of them are not even covered in game in

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Speaker 3: the US, And that's a kind of key area focused

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Speaker 3: for me moving forward.

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Speaker 1: For sure, that's really exciting to hear, and without getting

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Speaker 1: into the real minutia of it, I mean, how do

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Speaker 1: you go about doing that, because that's one of the

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Speaker 1: big issues I think here for us in Vegas and

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Speaker 1: really in the country in general, is this, you know,

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Speaker 1: the scalability of taking the in game wagering market, which

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Speaker 1: we know is going to be monster. Is this, given

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Speaker 1: what we see in Europe, how prevalent it is overseas,

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Speaker 1: how do you do that?

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Speaker 2: How do you build the in game opportunity?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think first and foremost you do with your

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Speaker 3: constant analytics teams and are traders, and we build out

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Speaker 3: models that are able to support both the predictive modeling

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Speaker 3: elements of it, but also the in game trading. As

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Speaker 3: you touched on, being able to build a derivative markets

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Speaker 3: that we know the public deserve and love that they've

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Speaker 3: taken to really well on the pro sports and being

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Speaker 3: able to migrate that into the NCAA world. So yeah, look,

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Speaker 3: data streaming, TV pictures, they're all challenges, but I do

435
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 3: expect as we move forward those opportunities to grow. As

436
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 3: soon as everybody sees it spread across the country. We

437
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 3: still have only access to legalized sports betting in the

438
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 3: US in terms of fifteen percent of the population. It's

439
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: still a long, long long way to go, and the

440
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 3: numbers are so big right now that I think once

441
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 3: that scales all of the leagues to bodies, even the

442
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 3: NCAA might be motivated to kind of move in that way.

443
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: So during the months of May, June, in parts of July,

444
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 1: we all here in the sports gambling world will trying

445
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: to find different things to entertain ourselves with to get

446
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: through this global pandemic. In terms of the restart, what

447
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 1: were you guys seeing some of the exotic offerings you

448
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: were making and if I don't know if you guys

449
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: were were offering in New Jersey, you know, ping pong

450
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: and Russian bellers and soccer and whatnot. But you know,

451
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 1: as the UFC the PGA tour got back going, they

452
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: were really driving us for a couple of months. Have

453
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: you seen a drastic shift in handle on some of

454
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: those sports that were really important in the month of

455
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: May and June in America? We're now here into August,

456
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: may not have as much attention.

457
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, there's a few things to touch on, and

458
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 3: that first for me was the opportunity for sports betting

459
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 3: when you know a lot of the world was lockdown.

460
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 3: We really framed it as being a recreational Again, I

461
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 3: hate for you know, people watching sometimes ticket book makers

462
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 3: on the customer side, that can't be the case. But genuinely,

463
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 3: we didn't want people to get heavily invested in betting,

464
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: you know, Russian ping pong. It was designed to be

465
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 3: a recreational you know, escape clothes if you will, for

466
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 3: people to be able to take you know, twenty minutes

467
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: out of their normal day of what is lockdown. And

468
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 3: I'm here with my wife and two kids in a

469
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: two bet apartment, so I know well how crazy it gets.

470
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,479
Speaker 3: So being able to take your way yourself away from

471
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 3: that math for me and be able to bet on

472
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 3: some sport that you had access to streaming on that

473
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 3: you would never get on terrestrial cable TV here in

474
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 3: the US, and you may not even know a lot

475
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: about it, but you could have twenty dollars on a

476
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: game and you know, basically have your outcome within fifteen minutes.

477
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: And for me, that was a really good opportunity. It

478
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: was enough for people to keep engaged with our website

479
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 3: to know that they still had an account, and it

480
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: was really designed to be a recreational kind of play

481
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 3: from our perspective. You know, I think the regulators, in

482
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 3: fairness to them, did a good job of realizing, you

483
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: know that these sports are lower tier. You know, we

484
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 3: had things forced on us, like, you know, relatively low

485
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: limits in certain states for certain periods of time, and

486
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: that served the purpose and that's what really what it was.

487
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 3: We had better Russian soccer, we had Ukrainian soccer when

488
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 3: we had table tens, and then we got some of

489
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,719
Speaker 3: the sports starting to come back in Asia before we

490
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 3: got to the world of you know, the return to

491
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: sports here in the US with golf. I think the

492
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: golf and UFC events that were held as we kind

493
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 3: of had that transition from pre lockdown to kind of

494
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: return to sports were incredibly valuable. You know, they were

495
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 3: real big opportunities for people to get back into wagering

496
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: a normal sports as they called them, to reactivate their

497
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 3: accounts and start to play again the way that they

498
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: used to. So they really did serve a purpose, and yes,

499
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 3: they drove the vast majority of our handle. I think

500
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 3: everybody realized that once core sports came back with the

501
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: NBA and the MLB, that volumes and demand for the

502
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 3: other lower tier sports that we've just spoken about would

503
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 3: always decrease. But from my perspective, it's not just about

504
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: the handles. It's about those sports and those products being

505
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 3: good for customers and them enjoying the experience and potentially

506
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 3: coming back to it. So golf is the perfect example

507
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 3: for me. I think golf is kind of a niche

508
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 3: sports betting opportunity that a lot of people find too

509
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: tricky on a Wednesday afternoon to figure out who they're

510
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 3: going to bet on to win a tournament over four days.

511
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: But actually the experience when you have someone in contention

512
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: is really really good, and I love betting on golf.

513
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: For me, it was about putting golf in front of people,

514
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: you know, people betting on the match first and then

515
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 3: the other tournament that we had. Looking then at the

516
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: PGA Tour, and I think what you end up happening

517
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 3: is having is yes and migration back towards the core

518
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 3: sports to handle numbers dropping on the lower tier ones.

519
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 3: But those people will eventually come back, and it's inherent

520
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 3: growth supports as a fan of the sports and from

521
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: a betting perspective, and that's exactly the purpose that they served.

522
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 3: So a long winded way of saying, yes, I expect

523
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: handle to drop on those lower tier sports and move

524
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 3: towards the core sports as we're used to, but I

525
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 3: do think that there will be some growth from the

526
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: experiences the betters had in that time.

527
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: I want to go back real quick talking about in

528
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: game could you mentioned golf and it kind of triggered

529
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: something in my brain. I've always looked at the game

530
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: of golf as the perfect in game wagering sport because

531
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: of the length of time between activities between shots, where

532
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, you could bet on hit the green, hit

533
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: the fair way, bet on birdie versus bogie. You could

534
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: do all sorts of different you know, in game opportunities

535
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: given because the computer will have the time and the

536
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: player will have the time to get the odds. Think

537
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: about the odds and in place the wager is that

538
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: is that a sport that really could benefit if in

539
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: game does become mature here in America, that that sport,

540
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: the handle on golf could take off.

541
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I think it's already pretty big. I think

542
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: the PGA Tour are working very hard to improve the

543
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 3: data set that we get out of them, and if

544
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: they do that, then it opens up a ton of

545
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 3: opportunity for different wagering types. I think in the next

546
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: six to twelve months, you're going to see the golf

547
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: in play products completely evolve. It's going to look completely

548
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: different to what it does right now. You know, we

549
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 3: support a lot of markets like who will he hit

550
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: the fair way? Will who hit the closest to the flag?

551
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: In a group? Will they hit the green? Yes or no?

552
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 3: Things like that are really popular. But I think if

553
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 3: you watch this space in the next twelve months, given

554
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 3: what you know, the noise we're hearing out of some

555
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 3: of the data sets out of the PGA to I

556
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 3: think golf's come to look completely different and therefore you

557
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: will get that rising and play handled for sure.

558
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: Could baseball follows a similar path, I mean, just sports

559
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: that do have some time in between. I know there's

560
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: I remember back when PAPSA was being argued, we had

561
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: some people come up on the other side. We're saying that,

562
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: you know, you can't have people who are going to

563
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: bet on balls or strikes. And back in the day

564
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: here in Las Vegas, I mean, we had a company

565
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: here that had had essentially a handheld device that you

566
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: you you would use inside the book and you could

567
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: bet basically on battered by batter. Now that has been

568
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: taken away, but that was like the first that was

569
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: not done online, but that was done in the book.

570
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: But that was the first time I ever really experienced

571
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, trying to bet on things that are happening

572
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: right away, but is baseball also prime for for for

573
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: in game wagering as well?

574
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 3: Without a shotow of that, Baseball bat betting is built

575
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: for micro markets, as we call them.

576
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: I have.

577
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: A lot of hope that we will have at bat

578
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: betting probably in the next four to six weeks at FANDIL,

579
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 3: definitely for the postseason. We've already tried it and tested

580
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: in some of the kind of your high profile games

581
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 3: last year by offering them manually, and what we saw

582
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: was a huge demand for it, and I don't expect

583
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: baseball to be any different. The length of the game overall,

584
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: I think lends itself to people dipping in and out,

585
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 3: and having Aaron judge at bat markets right now would

586
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: be amazing in terms of the way that he's hitting

587
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: the ball, so you know, whether the outcome of his

588
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: next at bat results in a single, you know, two

589
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: or more bases, a home run, a strikeout, or whatever.

590
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: I think is absolutely built for people to bed and

591
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 3: I absolutely hope it will be a good product for us,

592
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 3: and like I expect to see in the next you know,

593
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 3: four to eight weeks.

594
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: Wow, So this year during the playoffs in the word

595
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: Aaron Judges in the World series Bando better is maybe

596
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to in game wager on Aaron Judge

597
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: at bat.

598
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, without a shadow of that.

599
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: Wow, that is absolutely exciting to hear. That's really really interesting.

600
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk quickly about philosophy here. And I've

601
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: loved watching you do a lot of media, and you're

602
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: really good at explaining things. I think people are able

603
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: to understand, you know, through your eyes and how you're

604
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: approaching different markets in different games. But you know, is

605
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: there I always ask this question to everybody who comes

606
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Is there a mistake that you see

607
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: the average gambler make a lot that you think? Man,

608
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: I wish that the average person wouldn't do that because

609
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense.

610
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, look, I don't want to appear like

611
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: I'm preaching to everybody, and I definitely don't have all

612
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: the answers. I guess my perspective of a couple of

613
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: things that I would say is, you know, American media

614
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 3: are really keen to push this idea of the sharks

615
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: against the squares. And you know, one thing that really

616
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: kind of grates on me a little bit. Is the

617
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 3: consensus on a Sunday in the NFL that all the

618
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: sharp money is on the Dolphins plus eighteen against against

619
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 3: the Patriots like it was at the start of last season,

620
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: for example. The truth of it is that by the

621
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: time you were hearing that news, all the sharp players

622
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: have taken and moved the line accordingly. So the sharp

623
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: side may actually be the opposite way to the way

624
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: that the line has ended up. There was a market

625
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: I think two days ago. I think it was in

626
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: the NBA. Just alluding me now as to which game

627
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 3: it was, there was a total that was bet really

628
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: sharply down. I think it was the Jazz and somebody else.

629
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 3: A couple of days ago. It moved from I think

630
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: two I want to say two twenty four and a

631
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 3: half to two twenty within twenty minutes in the middle

632
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: of the afternoon, and I remember looking at that line

633
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 3: and all this narrative. All the sharks were out on

634
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: social media saying how you had to bet the under

635
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: the way, the shot efficiencies, free throw attempts from both teams,

636
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: and I just looked at the line. I was like,

637
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: if anybody is betting now, they've got a bet the

638
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: other way. It was down at two nineteen and a half,

639
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: come to jump, and we all know what happened from there.

640
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 3: I think it went way over. But I guess the

641
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 3: perspective and the point for me is, by the time

642
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: you hear this narrative about what way the Sharks have bet,

643
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: the value is probably more often than not long gone.

644
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 3: And I would tend to try and fade that as well.

645
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: I think general narratives as well. Week to week in

646
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: the NFL is another mistake that people make. You know,

647
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 3: the Ravens have covered three straight week, so therefore the

648
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: right line is to bet the minus in the fourth week,

649
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: regardless of through their player what the number is. And

650
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: I just see so much of that. I mean, we

651
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: can literally predict what where our books are going to

652
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: look on it on any given Sunday. In relation to

653
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: those teams, they're the heaviest bet teams. Everybody's taking the minus,

654
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: And there's just so so much wrong information, wrong betting

655
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: strategy in that that, you know, betters really do struggle.

656
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: If I was a better in the US market, I

657
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: would look for the micro markets and I would look

658
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: to bet against somebody's opinion. You mentioned there you know,

659
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 3: hold the whole betting in golf, for example, if you're

660
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: betting with fan due against on those markets, you're betting

661
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: against one of our traders, and literally one, I mean

662
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: one trader who is yes, he's got a lot of data,

663
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: Yes he's got a good model in front of him,

664
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: but it's his opinion against yours. And you've got a

665
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 3: huge chance of being right at least more often than wrong.

666
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: And if you're betting an NFL side on a Sunday,

667
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: that market is so liquid, the opportunity for you to

668
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 3: win over any stretch of you know, period of time

669
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 3: is just so small that it really doesn't make any

670
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 3: sense when you bring it down.

671
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's great to hear you say that because

672
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: I preached that a lot here about trying to do Look,

673
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: it's tough to do math. It's tough to find the

674
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: time in your busy work day. And then you know,

675
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: you have a family, and you've got a job, and

676
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: you have other things. So so you know the time

677
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: to sit there and really drill down on data and

678
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: really do a lot of map to break down the probability.

679
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: But you know, oftentimes people do say okay, they've will have.

680
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: Won three games in a row, so they're due to lose.

681
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: You know that this idea that the games have any

682
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: You know, games are very much their own silos, and

683
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: you guys are looking approaching at them from a data

684
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: perspective and you're doing in depth deep dives. So getting

685
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: to fifty three percent is really difficult to do. It's

686
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: a really hard way. It's a hard activity that that

687
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: we're all that we're all doing. I mean, how do

688
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: you feel about people that try to go for the

689
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: five dollars parlay to hit one thousand dollars? I know

690
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: that's a big core for most sports books in terms

691
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: of business, but in terms of winning and a winning strategy.

692
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: What's your take on parlays?

693
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the key differentiator. If you're a

694
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: recreational vetter on a Sunday in an NFL game and

695
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: you want to have a sixteen ten dollars parlay because

696
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: you like the payoff, I have no problem with that.

697
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: You know, people go to a bar and spend thirty

698
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: forty dollars on a few beers to watch your game.

699
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: You know, if you want to do that, I've got

700
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: absolutely no issue. Sure, you're going to hit every now

701
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: and then. I guess the key point is every time

702
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: you add a leg you're giving us more advantage. Right,

703
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: So there's juice in every line that you pick, and

704
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: every time you multiply the juice by itself. For every

705
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: pick that you add, the more legs you put in,

706
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 3: the more valuable that bet is to the book maker effectively.

707
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: And that's the way I look at it. If you're

708
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: trying to have a strategy of winning money and you're

709
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: betting parlays, I mean, unless you're beating the line by

710
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: a significant amount, you're just not going to win any

711
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: money long term. It's so so it's impossible, it's not

712
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: even difficult. Unless you're picking off lines that are four

713
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: and five points wrong in every single game, you're just

714
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: not going to win money long term. So I guess

715
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: if it's a strategy to win money, you probably shouldn't

716
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 3: be a betting paralay's full stop.

717
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: How do you feel about teasers? As being a map guy?

718
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: You know, the NFL lines are so sharp. It's the

719
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: only time I ever think about doing teasers is in

720
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: the NFL, because if you can figure things out and

721
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: you can move things, you know, three and seven being

722
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: your key numbers obviously three, you know, three, seven, ten,

723
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: fourteen and on. How do you feel about teasing NFL games?

724
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's so much juice being paid for

725
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: teasers in general that you have to be really, really

726
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 3: disciplined and find unique opportunities to be able to tease

727
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 3: two or three games through those two key numbers or

728
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: even some of the totals. Sometimes betting the pluses with

729
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 3: the seven point teasers and really low totals can sometimes

730
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 3: represent some opportunity, but in general, the book is applying

731
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: enough big to cover those scenarios more often than not.

732
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 3: I had a look. We've been looking at our teasers

733
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: pretty heavily in the last few weeks and months, and

734
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: hopefully we plan to expand our teasers out from six,

735
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: six and a half and seven in the NFL to

736
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 3: potentially every number between three and fourteen. And you what

737
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: it has kind of shown me is the probabilities of

738
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: each of those in an average game. And that piece

739
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 3: of work has kind of showed to me that you

740
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: got to be so so lucky to kind of find

741
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: multiple opportunities to be able to tease it through those

742
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: numbers or in the scenarios that I just referenced that realistically,

743
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: teasers are really the bookmaker's best friend. Even in the NFL, I.

744
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: Try to do two leg teasers. I think last year

745
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: I was paying basically one forty juice on two team

746
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: teasers and trying to get the best value by moving

747
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: the number I did.

748
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: I did pretty well.

749
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: I think I end up hitting around fifty eight to

750
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: fifty nine percent last football season doing it, so it

751
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: was it was slightly profitable. But yeah, I mean you're

752
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: paying the jews that when you do go on a

753
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: cold streak, you do end up getting getting taken down

754
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: pretty pretty quickly, and it hurts, you know, to the

755
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: NBA for a second. And you mentioned obviously NFL football

756
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: being a core in an NBA basketball being a core.

757
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: Anything surprised you from a numbers perspective in the bubble,

758
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: either the offense, the shooting percentages, you know, TJ. Warren,

759
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: anything surprised you right now with the NBA, with how

760
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: many points are being scored.

761
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: TJ. Warrens will it's probably one of the most incredible streaks.

762
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 3: I think he thirty nine points again yesterday or the

763
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: day before, whichever day was. It's been incredible to see

764
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: I think the NBA have done an amazing job. I mean,

765
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: the totals the first day probably had an awful lot

766
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: of lack of atmosphere. We'd seen how it kind of

767
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: looks in the MLB at that stage, and the totals

768
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: and the first day, for a lot of understandable reasons,

769
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: were really far down. I think we opened our opening

770
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: game at two hundred and nineteen and a half and

771
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: by the time tip off came it was like ten

772
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: points higher or something, and the undercash, which is even worse.

773
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: It was such a bad beat for anybody. I think

774
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: the NBA did an incredible job of making the bubble

775
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: look like regular season basketball. I've been amazed by the atmosphere,

776
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: the intensity of the players, the way the games have

777
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 3: been played, and how exciting they've been. Obviously, the first

778
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 3: night boat games went down to buzzer beaters, including the

779
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: Lakers and the Clippers, which was all a really good watch.

780
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: But I think that's been the most surprising thing from

781
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 3: my perspective, how organized they were to be able to

782
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: get the basketball court looking sound like regular season, and

783
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: then that the players buy into the intensity of it.

784
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 3: So from that perspective, I think that set the kind

785
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 3: of platform for it to be totals that we're used

786
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 3: to seeing in the regular season. For me, it's such

787
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 3: a small sample size. Even still not that I still

788
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: feel like the narrative is probably being exaggerated and therefore

789
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 3: you got to probably bet a lot of the unders.

790
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 3: In my opinion, because the games are getting bet so

791
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: heavily in terms of over is that that's probably where

792
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 3: the value is lying. But like I said, it's such

793
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: a small sample size. I wouldn't be certain about anything yet.

794
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean some of the swings were dramatic. You

795
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: mentioned this is the first game but we've seen and

796
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: this goes back to your point about media consumption. You know,

797
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: there were some well respected people in the media, some

798
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: professional betters who do a lot of media appearances. Who

799
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: are you hammering you guys, saying you were setting these

800
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: numbers way too low and then so many of them.

801
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, two four forty six were being

802
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: bet up. People are saying, Okay, keep on hammering the number,

803
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: and we're getting like these ridiculous or nearly two fifty

804
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: for totals, and then the original number that you guys hung.

805
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's coming in ten points below that, and

806
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: I think people do get a little bit stuck and

807
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: a little bit caught listening to people because I mean,

808
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: sure they may have more time and more energy and

809
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: more ability in more you know, computer algorithms to pull numbers.

810
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, so do you guys.

811
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: So it's not like you're.

812
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: You're in the in the world of not being prepared

813
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: for the amount of money. But are you still seeing

814
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: people come in heavy on the over still with with

815
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: NBA basketball?

816
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look to general public, the easiest way

817
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: to describe it is nobody wants to root for nothing

818
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: to happen, regardless of what sport you're on. If you're

819
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: petting onders, it's the most tortuous sweat you're ever going

820
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: to have. Right, there's definitely a lot of that big

821
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: didn't to lines. I mean, look, our job, particularly we

822
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: fan do is we try to be you know, less

823
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: swayed by that kind of rush of money because we

824
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: understand where it comes from. Right. If there's totals getting

825
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 3: bet up in the NBA now, it's probably because people

826
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 3: look at the Bucks game and the MAVs last night.

827
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 3: You see, you know, two thirty four all the way

828
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: up to two thirty eight by the jump, and obviously

829
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 3: we get overtime, but it's gone over in regular play anyway.

830
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 3: And then you just get this narrative of everybody saying,

831
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 3: you know, it's the bubble, it's the scenario, and therefore

832
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 3: every game is an overbed, and we try to remove

833
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: ourselves as best we can. Obviously we don't want to

834
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 3: be hung too far from the market in terms of

835
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 3: where that sits. But a lot of the time, if

836
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 3: we believe the line is right, we just won't move

837
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 3: it regardless of what our position is. And I think

838
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: that's one of the key differences. That we try and

839
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: look at what the true probability is in our opinion,

840
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 3: and if the market differs from that, we'll still try

841
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 3: and hold our position and try and have somewhat of

842
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 3: an upsided book because we just believe that that's the

843
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 3: best way to run a book long term.

844
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: John, this was a ton of fun. Thank you so

845
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: much for joining us.

846
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: If in closing, is there anything that you would you

847
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: would want the public to know about FanDuel and about

848
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing.

849
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 3: Look, for me, it's just simply the points that I

850
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 3: raise that you know, we want to give consumers the

851
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: opportunity to be able to bet on whatever it is

852
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 3: they want. I don't want to funnel people towards one

853
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 3: market or another. I want to give everybody a fair

854
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: bet where we can do it. We try and do that,

855
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: and I think most people would be aware that that

856
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: is the case. Yeah, that's that's effectively it, and you know,

857
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 3: let people make their decisions from there effectively.

858
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 2: Much thank you for a time. I really appreciate it.

859
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: Sure, happy to happy to be here. Thank you.

860
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: All right, that's going to do it for the Diligence podcast.

861
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: Thanks John Sheeran for coming on in. That was a

862
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: great conversation. Hopeing you guys enjoyed it. We're back tomorrow

863
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: with another Picks podcast. If you've not gone to Apple

864
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: or Stitcher to leave the review, we're counting down the

865
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 1: days here. Okay, it's August tenth. You get five days

866
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: left to win the Dalvin Cook autograph sign Jersey. Take

867
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: the screenshot of your review positive negative, send it in

868
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: to contest at Bettingcrows dot com and you can win that.

869
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: Potentially that autograph sign Jersey will pull one lucky winner

870
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: coming up on August the fifteenth. That's this week and

871
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: we will announce the winner this week. Clock is sticking.

872
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: Go do that for sure. I'm at Parolt. Follow me

873
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: on Twitter at sports Talk Matt. Best of luck to

874
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: us on our three plays once again to recap Twins,

875
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 1: Brewers under Dodgers, padres Over, and sons on the money

876
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: Line coming up here for a Monday. I'll talk to

877
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: you tomorrow for a Tuesday's edition of the Daly Juice

878
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: Podcast a Betting crows dot com