Speaker 1: David, are you there? I'm here. Wow, David, how are
Speaker 1: you nice? Nice to see you, guys. I mean, I
Speaker 1: am so excited to see you. This is an amusing
Speaker 1: idea talking about talking about turning back to clock. You
Speaker 1: guys probably know how many years it is? Years? God,
Speaker 1: isn't that crazy? I know. I mean, I think one
Speaker 1: of the things that's um so like one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I'm so excited to see you. And you would
Speaker 1: have no unless somebody has told you, you would not
Speaker 1: know this, but um you know I've I've directed now
Speaker 1: almost thirty episodes of children's TV, and any time I
Speaker 1: get asked what it was that made me want to
Speaker 1: be a director, I always referred to you because when
Speaker 1: I think about what I love so much about directing children,
Speaker 1: especially because I do mostly children's TV, I think of
Speaker 1: the way that you and Jeff McCracken treated us as kids,
Speaker 1: and how much respect you had for us. And you
Speaker 1: were truthfully the first person to really give me an
Speaker 1: acting lesson, Like I learned so much from you. I
Speaker 1: couldn't even tell you how much I learned from you,
Speaker 1: and so your impact on my life in the two
Speaker 1: years that I knew you twenty seven to twenty nine
Speaker 1: years ago has literally just changed the course of my life,
Speaker 1: and I I've never really been able to properly thank
Speaker 1: you for that, so I'm super excited to say that
Speaker 1: to you. Well, thank you. I'm glad you know better
Speaker 1: to be a good influenced on avantage. We've had those two. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've had those two. And directing young actors as a
Speaker 1: particular subset of directing, not exactly. It's in many ways
Speaker 1: like directing anybody and other ways, it's gotten some particular Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that is actually a great question to start with. Then,
Speaker 1: I mean, you had you I don't know exactly where
Speaker 1: you started your directing career, but you were most famous
Speaker 1: for directing Designing Women from nine to ninety two, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean before that, I was a theater director and
Speaker 1: before that playwright, so so the roots are in the theater.
Speaker 1: And then came to Los Angeles to direct one episode
Speaker 1: of Designing Women and stayed for four years and became
Speaker 1: one of the producers. So that was that was sort
Speaker 1: of the beginning. But I want to go back for
Speaker 1: a second because I'm fascinated by the fact that you
Speaker 1: came from theater and so did Michael Jacobs. And I
Speaker 1: think we we tend to forget how much multi camera
Speaker 1: sitcom in particular was like a direct descendant of theater,
Speaker 1: and how much what we do as actors and as
Speaker 1: directors in that that context is pretty much theater. I mean,
Speaker 1: was that an easy transition for you or or can
Speaker 1: you talk about what that was like to go because
Speaker 1: you used to I know you used to do Shakespeare
Speaker 1: because you gave me in Ben an amazing Shakespeare lesson
Speaker 1: one day. I don't know if you remember this, but
Speaker 1: we we spent like one time reading, so I know you,
Speaker 1: but I know you were you started in classical theater
Speaker 1: and then here you are doing a kids sitcom. Can
Speaker 1: you talk about how similar or different they are? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you're absolutely right that the multiple
Speaker 1: camera television comes from the theater. And my conviction is
Speaker 1: that it comes from from Flodville. Yeah, Vaudeville shows add
Speaker 1: these short plays between the musical acts, and it gave them,
Speaker 1: you know it it was my set. I mean I
Speaker 1: never it was before my time, but I screamed their beauties.
Speaker 1: A single set would be inserted in the middle, you know,
Speaker 1: in the middle of the stage. And a little play
Speaker 1: of twenty minutes or so we take place and and
Speaker 1: I've read some of them and they're remarkably like what
Speaker 1: we end up doing. So I think that what what
Speaker 1: multiple Camera did was take take the theater and and
Speaker 1: and add to it the resources of movies and and
Speaker 1: specifically of television, because it does here, it is, and
Speaker 1: so it has a lot to do. It has a
Speaker 1: lot to do. I mean almost entirely. So the transition
Speaker 1: is not that hard. Did you watch a lot of
Speaker 1: television before you started directing it? No, not particularly. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the way I actually specifically came to it
Speaker 1: was I directed a plan Broadway that came and played
Speaker 1: Beyoncet and when it played the Honest and you know,
Speaker 1: I had directed seven plays in a year and a half,
Speaker 1: had less money at the end of that, I've got,
Speaker 1: you know, the logical extension of this potters Field someday
Speaker 1: you know, we're not going directly, and I was very
Speaker 1: fortunately I directed good things and good places. But it's
Speaker 1: a it's and it is what it is. So I
Speaker 1: took the opportunity of being in Los Angeles and having
Speaker 1: my name in the newspaper every day because there's a
Speaker 1: big add every day for the squad, so I didn't
Speaker 1: have to explain why I was there. I didn't come
Speaker 1: as a supplicant for a beggar, and sort of poked
Speaker 1: around and figured out how to do it. And then
Speaker 1: Jim Burrows, whom I met, arranged for me to to
Speaker 1: to observe Bill Persky doing Kate. Now, so that was
Speaker 1: where I lived in York, so I sort of made that.
Speaker 1: I took the money I made at the office and
Speaker 1: basically invested in So I didn't work for a year,
Speaker 1: but I had one. I mean, I knew I had
Speaker 1: the money from the n so it was a sort
Speaker 1: of investment in the future that was unclear whether it
Speaker 1: worked out, but then it did. And then and then
Speaker 1: designing women. You know, the women were, if I understand
Speaker 1: it correctly, second hand sort of the women were looking
Speaker 1: for what they called the real director. I know, so,
Speaker 1: you know, a smart agent with most to Harry Johnson.
Speaker 1: I got this guy, and I my understanding because they
Speaker 1: also can said if you don't hire somebody else will
Speaker 1: and get regret it. So Harry and I had a
Speaker 1: long talk on the phone and he hired men and
Speaker 1: you never even met. So when I showed up at
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. I had never seen that was designing with
Speaker 1: a shot up felt. I had never seen a camera close.
Speaker 1: I've seen sweed in New York. You know. Now you're
Speaker 1: in charge of four of the camera what they're doing,
Speaker 1: you know. So it was it was like coming in
Speaker 1: virtually with a blank mom, but with what but understanding
Speaker 1: actors and stage and stuff like that, and let's see
Speaker 1: you go from there. And so you know, you directed
Speaker 1: the first two seasons of Boy Meat's World almost exclusively.
Speaker 1: John Tracy did the pilot and then you came in
Speaker 1: and did every other episode for the first two seasons.
Speaker 1: Did you one? What was were we your first experience
Speaker 1: working then with kids? And what was that like? Well,
Speaker 1: you guys were great and fun. I mean I remember
Speaker 1: certain kinds of specifics. And presumably we will get into
Speaker 1: this like Danielle, how we got to you? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can't wait for that story. Can wait for that story
Speaker 1: for two of us? Yeah, I mean I think we
Speaker 1: could actually get into it here. Instead of when we
Speaker 1: talk about the episode, there a lot of other things
Speaker 1: to talk about the episode. Um, let's talk about how
Speaker 1: I became Topanga because I actually just learned something from
Speaker 1: David for when it When I was trying to get
Speaker 1: David to come on the show and we were emailing
Speaker 1: back and forth, David said to me, yes, of course,
Speaker 1: how could I forget that Friday night, Michael had gone home,
Speaker 1: Michael Jacobs had gone home for Shabbat, and the actress
Speaker 1: we had hired us to Panga, was not working out. So,
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, I had auditioned for the
Speaker 1: role of Topanga and I did not even get a
Speaker 1: call back. And I know exactly why, because I had
Speaker 1: zero idea what acting was and welcome to the club.
Speaker 1: All I had done up until that point were commercials
Speaker 1: where all I was doing was playing a cute, bubbly
Speaker 1: ten or eleven year old. And I had done two
Speaker 1: episode a Full House, where again I was just kind
Speaker 1: of playing a slightly different version of myself. It was
Speaker 1: just the tiniest bit different. And I didn't know that
Speaker 1: you could change how you said things, or that you
Speaker 1: could pretend to be someone. I didn't know that at all. Truthfully,
Speaker 1: I did not know that I was. I had had
Speaker 1: no training at all. And you were cast in the
Speaker 1: episode you had one of those you were one of
Speaker 1: those girls, right, I mean the girls who are doing
Speaker 1: the science experiment. Yeah, and the girls who were talking
Speaker 1: about corries. Well, what recollection? You were one of the exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was the fish pulled out the dead. So I
Speaker 1: didn't get a call back for Topanga, but the next
Speaker 1: day I got the audition to be one of those
Speaker 1: two girls, and I booked that role, and so then
Speaker 1: I got to set and I was one of the
Speaker 1: girls who had a couple of lines the Fish Girl,
Speaker 1: and I saw David working with the actress they had
Speaker 1: cast as Tapanga. Now, I was not there for all
Speaker 1: of the topa Anga scenes because if my character wasn't
Speaker 1: in the scene, I was in school or something. But
Speaker 1: in a couple of scenes where Tapenga and the Fish
Speaker 1: Girl were together, I got to watch David work with her,
Speaker 1: and I it was literally the first lightbulb of what
Speaker 1: we were doing as actors went off in my head
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh wow, And I had that
Speaker 1: feeling you get as a kid where you're like can
Speaker 1: I can I try again? Like I really feel like
Speaker 1: I get it now? And David was working with her,
Speaker 1: and I specifically remember one line that I don't think
Speaker 1: was in the episode where when she walks away, she
Speaker 1: says peace and um, the actress, I remember this whole moment.
Speaker 1: It was just a moment that really stuck out because
Speaker 1: I remember being repeated over and over again. Her natural
Speaker 1: inclination was to say piece and walk away, and and
Speaker 1: David was saying, it's when you say it like that,
Speaker 1: it sounds down or sad, it's not. It's it's just peace.
Speaker 1: And I remember them going back and forth peace and
Speaker 1: being like, oh man, in my head, I'm hearing myself
Speaker 1: say it going I know, I think, I know. Just
Speaker 1: remember that. I remember that Friday rehearsal. It was this
Speaker 1: the whole episode was a disaster at that point. It was,
Speaker 1: and it was day one. And so for the record,
Speaker 1: the girl's name is not actually fish Girl, just so
Speaker 1: she's got her. Her name was Megan Parlor. Megan Parlor.
Speaker 1: But so anyway, long story short, Friday, the very first day,
Speaker 1: that actress who was playing to Peana gets let go.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to then let David take it because
Speaker 1: now this is stuff I don't have the inside knowledge on,
Speaker 1: but David does. David, what happened? This is what I think. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's sort of problems that you think you can solve,
Speaker 1: and then there's problems that you think you can't solve.
Speaker 1: And sort of by working with her, she moved from
Speaker 1: one camp to the other, Kip to the insoluble camp.
Speaker 1: So Michael had gone home. I mean, the way things
Speaker 1: working those days, you guys can remember it's been and
Speaker 1: I do. We had a table reading on Friday. You
Speaker 1: can bank school hours on Friday, so you guys all
Speaker 1: went to school and then late in the afternoon you
Speaker 1: got out of school and we rehearsed. But by then,
Speaker 1: if it was sundown or close to it, Michael went home.
Speaker 1: He'd done the rewriting anyone home for Shabba, So that
Speaker 1: basically in that situation, I was on stage, and Ed
Speaker 1: and John were the guys upstairs, and just Ward were
Speaker 1: the guys upstairs. So even LOUI of Michael. So I
Speaker 1: remember calling them, I think, and saying, disaster, we gotta
Speaker 1: get rid of her, and you know, what what are
Speaker 1: we gonna do? I said, no, no no, no, no, we
Speaker 1: got it. Is he here, I've seen her, right, So
Speaker 1: that's what I recollect. I think it wasn't oh this
Speaker 1: I got I don't mean I got this, but we
Speaker 1: got this we got this and again I think maybe
Speaker 1: they came down and maybe you did part of Oh no,
Speaker 1: I know exactly what happened there. Guys did a reading.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was it was said yes, yes, I mean
Speaker 1: it was self evidence that you were prints. So that okay.
Speaker 1: So that's the that's some of the holes that are
Speaker 1: filling in for me now, because we definitely did an audition.
Speaker 1: At the end of the rehearsal day, they said, Marla, Danielle,
Speaker 1: we can you guys come with us and we're going
Speaker 1: to have you read these this scene. I don't remember
Speaker 1: what scene it was, but it all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it was a parent that Marlin I were re auditioning
Speaker 1: for this other character, which um is also a kind
Speaker 1: of an uncomfortable situation because Marlin I have spent all
Speaker 1: day kind of being pals and buds and the two
Speaker 1: of us are here, you know, we're friends, were playing
Speaker 1: these scenes together where we play friends, and now all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like we're both auditioning for a
Speaker 1: marching exactly. It's like thousands of domes for and so
Speaker 1: Marla went in first, and Marla did the scene, and
Speaker 1: my mom and I are sitting outside and we can
Speaker 1: hear laughing going on, talking going on, and I'm looking
Speaker 1: down at the scene being like laughing, I don't know
Speaker 1: that there are there is there? Okay, I guess there's
Speaker 1: a laugh, Like I'm stressed. Marla's going is in there.
Speaker 1: She's in there for a while. It's very talkie talkie
Speaker 1: and friendly, and I can just hear a lot of chatter.
Speaker 1: And then Marla comes out and Sally Steiner, the casting director,
Speaker 1: follows her out, and in front of us, Sally is
Speaker 1: asking for Marla's mom every possible way she can get
Speaker 1: in touch with Marla over the weekend because Marla was
Speaker 1: going up north, which I think is where she lived.
Speaker 1: She was going back up north to see her family
Speaker 1: for the weekend, and Sally was nervous, like, how are
Speaker 1: we going to get in touch with you? This is
Speaker 1: before the days of cell phone, So I need to
Speaker 1: have the house number where you live, your agents man,
Speaker 1: your agents paid, your number, your man. I need any
Speaker 1: ways of us we're going to call you over the
Speaker 1: weekend and if and if you have to come in
Speaker 1: on Monday, I need to let you know over this weekend.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking, Okay, that audition went really well,
Speaker 1: and now Daniel Fisher and now go ahead, gentleman. Daniel
Speaker 1: and I walked in and I did the scene, and
Speaker 1: then I was done. There was no like extended chatter.
Speaker 1: I walked out and turned around to see if Sally
Speaker 1: was following behind me. No one followed behind me. I've
Speaker 1: written down my numbers in case you need to get
Speaker 1: in touch of me over the record. Do you need
Speaker 1: my factor? Who's my page number? My mom's page number?
Speaker 1: It was crickets and I then my mom and I
Speaker 1: walked out and I burst into tears. I was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. I didn't nail it. It was
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. I just obviously Marla was
Speaker 1: better because I they wanted they It was clearly they
Speaker 1: want her. And I was sad, and I was like,
Speaker 1: but it's gonna be okay. I didn't you know an
Speaker 1: hour ago this part wasn't mine either, Like you know,
Speaker 1: who cares. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: And my mom, it's now two hours past the time
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be home, and my dad has no
Speaker 1: idea where we are. He's been paging my mother like
Speaker 1: like where are you? And so my mom says, we
Speaker 1: need to call your father. And we had a Zach
Speaker 1: Morris car phone. So I call my father on the
Speaker 1: Zach Morris car phone and I am in tears and
Speaker 1: I'm trying to explain to him what happened. So we
Speaker 1: were rehearsing and there's this girl and then and then
Speaker 1: so Marlon I and he's like what He's like trying
Speaker 1: to understand what I'm saying, like why what are you
Speaker 1: even talking about? And then he goes, hold on, hold on, sorry,
Speaker 1: I have a call waiting, and he just comes back
Speaker 1: and I look at my mom and like, go waiting
Speaker 1: holding the phone like this. And then my dad comes
Speaker 1: back and says, that was someone named Sally Steiner and
Speaker 1: she told you to come back on Monday. As to Panga,
Speaker 1: none of these things are words. My dad had any
Speaker 1: idea what they meant. He didn't know Sally Steiner was.
Speaker 1: He had never heard the name to Panga. He didn't
Speaker 1: understand what was going on. And I just scream and
Speaker 1: my mom looks at me and go or we just
Speaker 1: start screaming in the car. It was I mean, it
Speaker 1: will it is a moment I will remember. I get
Speaker 1: chills thinking about it. I remember, I will remember it
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. They couldn't find Marlow's number.
Speaker 1: It's so what's so funny is that it was a
Speaker 1: huge deal to you because being the guest star in
Speaker 1: a leading role was a big deal. But actually it
Speaker 1: didn't mean that much. It's you know, now it means everything.
Speaker 1: It changed your life. But actually from the perspective of like,
Speaker 1: you know, if if, if it had to Pango was
Speaker 1: supposed to be a one one episode, right it was
Speaker 1: from right, Yeah, it's like that, it was like, right,
Speaker 1: So it's so funny that it only it's like snowballed,
Speaker 1: you know, throughout the years. So this moment, which was
Speaker 1: a big deal for an elven year old, but like, actually,
Speaker 1: if your life had gone on and the part of
Speaker 1: you know whatever, it probably would have just faded away
Speaker 1: and been one of those fun like childhood memories. But
Speaker 1: now it's become this defining characteristic of your life. It's
Speaker 1: fascinating that's how it works. Though not because I agree
Speaker 1: with that, but when a writer like Michael writes apart
Speaker 1: like that, where there's a connection, yeah, implicitly, there's a
Speaker 1: hope that it goes on. Yeah, my honestly, so that
Speaker 1: from your point of I mean, I think every step
Speaker 1: of the way, it's like you're the fish girl, then
Speaker 1: you're auditioning, then you're happy, then you're sad, then you're happy. Right, right,
Speaker 1: that's the scene, and if it ends there is like
Speaker 1: but but from from the show's point of view, there's
Speaker 1: always about a short term storytelling in a longer short term.
Speaker 1: So I think there was it was important that the
Speaker 1: right he be cast in that part from the show's
Speaker 1: point view, or else you would have had to read
Speaker 1: do you had to find another way to introduce Corey
Speaker 1: to somebody who's going to be It's yeah, So I
Speaker 1: think it's two things. It's unimportant or or important only
Speaker 1: in retrospect and at the time really important. Well that's
Speaker 1: actually really that's a good question. Do you do you
Speaker 1: have any memories of what what I mean? Do you
Speaker 1: because at that point the show is still defining itself,
Speaker 1: The show is still trying to find its voice in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. And had you when when you
Speaker 1: took the job to direct the first season, I'm presuming
Speaker 1: you had seen the pilot and that's why you took
Speaker 1: the job. Well, I mean I took the job because
Speaker 1: you know, it's not worth going into all the details.
Speaker 1: But my mind, Michael had wanted Michael I had a
Speaker 1: prior relationship on another show, And and then what means
Speaker 1: the world is I was supposed to Michael wanted me
Speaker 1: to do the pilot, and I did something else, and
Speaker 1: the other things fell through, and some it's like, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a whole sort of like story upon the second
Speaker 1: second podcast doesn't have any care. Okay, well then I
Speaker 1: guess the question becomes, what do you do you remember
Speaker 1: being a part of developing the voice of Boyme's World
Speaker 1: or developing a tone, and and do you remember what
Speaker 1: those conversations were like, like did did it feel like
Speaker 1: the show was sort of baked into the pilot and
Speaker 1: into the writing, or were you still kind of fishing
Speaker 1: around for a character like to Panga, a best friend
Speaker 1: like Sean, you know, finding the parents. And I think
Speaker 1: these things are they are the thing that Boy's World
Speaker 1: have from the beginning. And I was trying to parenthetically,
Speaker 1: I was trying to think how many shows I did
Speaker 1: Jacks and I would say, okay, it's three. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: there's another four, Oh wait, there's another, just like six
Speaker 1: conceivably seven things I did with Michael over a period
Speaker 1: of say four years. Boy's World was a perfect expression
Speaker 1: of Michael's voice and I was dead. So the thing
Speaker 1: was pitched perfect from the beginning because of the connection
Speaker 1: between Michael as a writer and a voice and then
Speaker 1: as an accur so the rest thing it fell in around.
Speaker 1: You know, it felt, it felt okay, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't remember. I mean, I remember, Michael's not any who guys,
Speaker 1: Michael's not a day at the beach. Depends on the
Speaker 1: kind of day it's not. So so it's not like
Speaker 1: it was smooth and no new shows every smooth. Michael
Speaker 1: makes things harder sometimes then we have to be at
Speaker 1: the same time. This was great. I mean it was like, man,
Speaker 1: a writer has a speaker, like the Michael Benn connection,
Speaker 1: You've got yourself from the basis of real since and
Speaker 1: everything else. And I mean, I think going back to
Speaker 1: June and you know, you know that in so many
Speaker 1: ways it was evident, And I think it was evident
Speaker 1: to me even when that other girl was still there
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, I can't I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be able to make her right, this one, this one
Speaker 1: with the fish. She seems good, you know, is you
Speaker 1: can sort of feel what will do? Confuel. Well, going
Speaker 1: back to what you said about the roller coaster of
Speaker 1: you know, you're happy, you're sad, You're happy, you're sad.
Speaker 1: After I get that phone call on Friday night, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got the part. Show back up on Monday as Topanga.
Speaker 1: I did. I showed up on Monday as to Panga,
Speaker 1: and I was now the person David was working with
Speaker 1: trying to get the you know, the right tone, the
Speaker 1: right intonation, the right deliveries, the right physicality. And it
Speaker 1: was hard for me. I was a bubbly, fast talking
Speaker 1: spunky and and uh yeah, I I it was very
Speaker 1: hard to speak slowly. It's still hard for me to
Speaker 1: talk slowly. And we worked all day and then we do,
Speaker 1: as we've discussed on the podcast before, what are weeks
Speaker 1: were like? Monday was producer run through at the end
Speaker 1: of the night, and David, I I would love to remember,
Speaker 1: and I've loved to know what your memory of this
Speaker 1: night is, because I can tell you my memory was
Speaker 1: that we we do the producer run through and we
Speaker 1: sit down from Michael's marathon note session, and I had
Speaker 1: I had never been a part of his marathon note sessions.
Speaker 1: This was my very first one because it was my
Speaker 1: very first week. And Michael starts off the notes by saying, um, Danielle,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to I'm going to give you
Speaker 1: your notes all in one time at the end. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to give everyone else their notes now,
Speaker 1: because if I made everyone sit here through all of
Speaker 1: the notes I have for you, we would all be
Speaker 1: here for hours and no one would ever get to
Speaker 1: go home. So you're just gonna wait for the end.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. And I and I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: I remember like from that moment on my eyes welled
Speaker 1: up because you know, I'm honest. I'm now in front
Speaker 1: of everybody, everybody, all the producers, all the writers, all
Speaker 1: the cast, and all eyes are on me for a second,
Speaker 1: and then he just quickly moved on and for the
Speaker 1: rest for maybe the next hour, while he did go
Speaker 1: through page one, line one notes for everyone else, I
Speaker 1: have tears in my eyes, like, Okay, I don't know
Speaker 1: what's coming for me, but it's not going to be good.
Speaker 1: And then after he did everyone else's notes, he called
Speaker 1: my mom down. My mom had been sitting in the stands,
Speaker 1: like where the studio audience sits um alone, and she
Speaker 1: came down and he sat us down at the Matthews
Speaker 1: family kitchen table and literally opened up the script and
Speaker 1: went through every single one of my lines and what
Speaker 1: he wanted and what I wasn't doing right and how
Speaker 1: slow I needed to talk. And I don't remember if
Speaker 1: you were there for I don't remember if you stuck
Speaker 1: around for that or if you weren't there. I was
Speaker 1: like laser focused on my script. And I can see
Speaker 1: by the way I'm sorry, I can see this still
Speaker 1: affects you. Oh yeah, I can say profusely right now
Speaker 1: as we talked about it, it's still affects well. Because
Speaker 1: the other thing that Michael said in front of everybody,
Speaker 1: and maybe it wasn't in front of everybody, maybe it
Speaker 1: was just to my mom and I. But what I
Speaker 1: know specifically was said was all I know is if
Speaker 1: you don't come back tomorrow doing this entirely differently, you
Speaker 1: are also not going to be here referencing. Okay, I
Speaker 1: worked for like four years, okay, in multiple SIPs. This
Speaker 1: is a hateful still. I used to drive to work
Speaker 1: and go past that Bob Hope, and many days I
Speaker 1: wanted to stop and show because of how unpleasant it
Speaker 1: was to do and how I mean, there's many wonderful things,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean believe there's many ones, but
Speaker 1: there's hateful. This is one. Yeah. It's like to hear
Speaker 1: this your sweating. I'm pissed you, I'm really pissed. And
Speaker 1: it's enough to make me want to like sign off
Speaker 1: from this podcast associated with anything that does no. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this it's just not how this is. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: great that it became a hit with you know, I'm
Speaker 1: glad of everything like this, but this is just but
Speaker 1: what I will say is, and I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not. I'm not deflecting from that. But
Speaker 1: I did go home that night with my mom, and
Speaker 1: my mom and I stayed up until probably three or
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning, going over every single line
Speaker 1: my mom would, just because I wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: I had it. And it was my mom saying to
Speaker 1: me slower, slower, yeah, slower, and going okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: And so the next day I showed up and it's Tuesday,
Speaker 1: and I rehearse again all day with David, and again
Speaker 1: I always felt so safe with you. I knew you have. Again,
Speaker 1: let me say everybody who worked with Michael understood, implicitly
Speaker 1: or explicitly, wherever Michael lurched to one side of the boat,
Speaker 1: everybody went to the other set. Yes, yes, yeah, the
Speaker 1: job was That's why I hate it ultimately, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can put this on radio. Um is the job
Speaker 1: was to do your job right, whatever that was, but
Speaker 1: also to prevent swamping and drown right. So go on.
Speaker 1: So Tuesday we do our network run through, and I again,
Speaker 1: can wait wait before we jump to that, can I
Speaker 1: ask you a very quick question. The night it's three
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, you're studying with your mom. Are
Speaker 1: you doing this from a place now of god, I
Speaker 1: really want to get this right? Are you doing this
Speaker 1: from a place based in fear? I really wanted to
Speaker 1: get it right. I am a type a perfectionist and
Speaker 1: I always have been. And so what is getting it
Speaker 1: right in this content? Right means making Michael happy? And
Speaker 1: that's that's the problem to me. That's what I do.
Speaker 1: You know, that's what I remember feeling, and that's what
Speaker 1: I don't think is healthy. And I don't agree that
Speaker 1: that's story. This is one I mean because you know,
Speaker 1: anticipation of telling sort of things come back into your head.
Speaker 1: So I did a show Michael basically acts as a
Speaker 1: ventrilogist and actors as things who voice whatever, like like
Speaker 1: a puppet. Right. So that's it, that's the that's Michael's reality.
Speaker 1: And that's the reason I say Ben is so important.
Speaker 1: This is because Ben was perfect, perfect, and when I
Speaker 1: watched the episodes that, yeah, he's phenomenal. He carried the
Speaker 1: whole show astounding representation of that world and that stuff.
Speaker 1: But I did a shout with Michael with Marie Osmin
Speaker 1: and Betty White and Craig Ferguson, right, and it was
Speaker 1: it was not a successful show because again Michael's voices
Speaker 1: my two dads and Boemon's world and Betty White and
Speaker 1: Marie Ostend are from bas other solar system. Well loved.
Speaker 1: But I remember this because this is when I thought
Speaker 1: I got Betty was doing something. And Betty and I
Speaker 1: became really good friends over time, and I worked with
Speaker 1: her multiple times and I adored she was doing something.
Speaker 1: She's doing so and it wasn't the way Michael and
Speaker 1: Michael said to be ever do it like Florence standing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys never Florence Stanley's flander standing.
Speaker 1: I think it's the mother of a grandmother on my
Speaker 1: two deaths. But she was basically a perfect representative of
Speaker 1: Michael's before and the antithesis. But Michael take someone else's voice,
Speaker 1: and he said, have her do it like Florence. Now,
Speaker 1: tell her to do it. What Florence, Well, I didn't
Speaker 1: tell walk up to or talk about something else to
Speaker 1: come back exactly. But that's how that's your experience a
Speaker 1: three o'clock in the morning, Yeah, being told to Florence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he had a he had a very direct, very
Speaker 1: very precise vision for what he wanted, and there was
Speaker 1: very there was this very small margin of error outside
Speaker 1: of that that he was willing to let anybody play.
Speaker 1: And that's you know, I mean, that's fine. It's his show,
Speaker 1: it's his it's his brain child. But so we do
Speaker 1: the network run through, and all I want, all I
Speaker 1: want all day is you know, I don't see Michael
Speaker 1: during the day. Michael's not on set while we're rehearsing,
Speaker 1: so I don't see Michael at all, and all I
Speaker 1: all I want is approval. I want Michael's specifically Michael's approval,
Speaker 1: because I had lost it the day before. I did
Speaker 1: not want to lose I want and do it the
Speaker 1: exactly why I wanted tomorrow. Are you not here exactly?
Speaker 1: I have the past? Yeah, and I had already seen
Speaker 1: that happen. Well, you are twelve, it's time to learn
Speaker 1: that lesson, right, So I we do. Then we do
Speaker 1: the network run through. We sit down for the note
Speaker 1: session and again I'm sweating profusely and I have no
Speaker 1: idea what's coming. And Michael says, this time Danielle, and
Speaker 1: I'm like yes, And he stands up and all the
Speaker 1: writers stand up alongside him, and he says, let's let's
Speaker 1: give Danielle a round of applause. You know, you did
Speaker 1: exactly what I asked of you. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, congratulations. It was wonderful. He gave
Speaker 1: me some praise about p ccivic things, and then he
Speaker 1: just started notes and I then got to sit in
Speaker 1: on a normal note session, and yeah, there were still
Speaker 1: notes for me, but it was, you know, there were
Speaker 1: no more threats of being fired. It was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I had I had done the work, I had shown
Speaker 1: him I was worthy. And then the next day we
Speaker 1: were we were taping. But that's I mean, that's exactly
Speaker 1: he's I mean, he not to harp on this, but
Speaker 1: he set it up in such a way for now,
Speaker 1: when he gives you the standing ovation, it's like the
Speaker 1: sun is shining on you, like, I can't look at
Speaker 1: look what I've done it. I've made him feel so good.
Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with your acting or it's
Speaker 1: just make Michel and I will not lie that. It
Speaker 1: then totally sets up that you go after that. Every
Speaker 1: week you're chasing the dragon of Michael approval. You're you
Speaker 1: every week you're like, Wow, that was that was such
Speaker 1: a high. The next week, I'm going to go after that,
Speaker 1: and if you don't get it, you're you feel a like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't I didn't hear that I was bad,
Speaker 1: But I also didn't hear that I was good. Like
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, what does that mean? I didn't hear
Speaker 1: anything good or bad? You guys were all kids. Michael
Speaker 1: couldn't pull the stuff. Yeah, now we couldn't pull the
Speaker 1: stuff with people who weren't not yet secure in their
Speaker 1: own right. Yeah. I mean I think the most the
Speaker 1: one of the most damaging parts is creative too, which
Speaker 1: is that I remember, this sensation of the show is
Speaker 1: either working, the episodes working, or it's not, it's falling apart.
Speaker 1: And in my mind, that was something definable and concrete
Speaker 1: that everybody could see and that everybody knew or did
Speaker 1: not know in retrospect. That was whatever Michael had written
Speaker 1: that week and whatever he wanted it to be. And
Speaker 1: that's a huge distinction because as an actor, the worst
Speaker 1: thing you can do to approach material is think that
Speaker 1: there's a pre existing perfection that you need to like
Speaker 1: reach up for that that that takes away your agency,
Speaker 1: that takes away your creativity, that removes you from the process.
Speaker 1: And it was something I didn't learn until my twenties
Speaker 1: when I actually had to learn how to act and
Speaker 1: realize like, oh, what we were doing was not acting.
Speaker 1: What we were doing was what you were saying would
Speaker 1: be sort of this puppetry, this you know, showing up
Speaker 1: and and and and. Creatively, I feel like it stunted
Speaker 1: me incredibly because it didn't allow me the creative joy
Speaker 1: of discovery and experimentation and recognition that there is no
Speaker 1: right or wrong in art. There's just what we want
Speaker 1: to make. As a team as a collaborative, you know,
Speaker 1: exercise together. Uh, And we never had that atmosphere on set.
Speaker 1: We I never had that sensation. Especially as a kid,
Speaker 1: you just feel like, oh, where we're missing something. Somebody's
Speaker 1: gonna get fired if something is not right or if
Speaker 1: we don't make this one person happy. And in my mind,
Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, it wasn't even always conscious that
Speaker 1: it was one person, because you have an entire system
Speaker 1: of people enabling that, you know, work to keep that
Speaker 1: power dynamic in places. And that's why I appreciated the
Speaker 1: directors you, Jeff McCracken, you know, name your director that
Speaker 1: we had, but especially in those early years, because you
Speaker 1: guys always let us know that we were creative individuals
Speaker 1: with our own input. And I know that you were
Speaker 1: in a tough position, but it was exactly why I
Speaker 1: wanted to direct on Girl Meets World. And that's what
Speaker 1: I sort of wanted to crack open for those kids,
Speaker 1: was to was to sort of say to them like, hey,
Speaker 1: you get to make your own choices here, you know,
Speaker 1: like the acting is a creative endeavor that you bring.
Speaker 1: It's not just it's better. Yeah, and people people have
Speaker 1: used a good word where their agency is eating. But
Speaker 1: of course going to what you were saying though about
Speaker 1: writers saying, you know, kind of letting us do our
Speaker 1: own thing, and uh, you know, supporting us and doing
Speaker 1: our own thing and encouraging us to do our own thing.
Speaker 1: You I was in a strange position when the show
Speaker 1: started right around these episodes, because it was there was
Speaker 1: kind of we always talk about the two boy meets worlds,
Speaker 1: and there was kind of the boy meets role that
Speaker 1: was happening in the school where you're now introducing to Panga.
Speaker 1: Sean is starting to get a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a voice. Corey's there, who's just like a tiny little
Speaker 1: stand up comedian who is carrying the show and is
Speaker 1: hitting beats that are well beyond his age that I'm
Speaker 1: noticing now as an adult, where I'm just going, how
Speaker 1: did he put He's he's phenomenal. He's phenomenal and really
Speaker 1: carried the show. And then you had the family dynamic,
Speaker 1: which was the parents relationship with Corey his relationship with them,
Speaker 1: and then Morgan and Eric would come in and say
Speaker 1: like a funny line here or there and leave. So
Speaker 1: I was kind of like floating around at this point
Speaker 1: and I remember having a conversation with you, and it
Speaker 1: was one of the brief ones because again I had
Speaker 1: no character really and they didn't know what Eric was
Speaker 1: gonna do or was going to become. And it was
Speaker 1: this moment where it was it's what every actor kind
Speaker 1: of needs to hear, where we were having a talk
Speaker 1: about that where I said, well, you know, I'm just
Speaker 1: kind of coming in and saying the line and not
Speaker 1: really establishing anything, and you looked at me and said,
Speaker 1: that's why you gotta make account. And you turn and
Speaker 1: you walked away. And it's that more and it's that
Speaker 1: exact moment I remember of Hey, if I have one line,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get the biggest laugh of the show, because
Speaker 1: then next show I'm going to have to you know.
Speaker 1: So it was that kind of those little acting gems
Speaker 1: you would throw out occasionally, just like well all right,
Speaker 1: you got one line, make account and you turn and
Speaker 1: walked away. And it was that kind of little thing.
Speaker 1: Those are the things that stick with an actor. It's
Speaker 1: not the the I don't remember the three hour note sessions.
Speaker 1: I remember the length of the sessions, but I don't
Speaker 1: remember what was actually imparted any of the wisdom that
Speaker 1: was imparted, but little really, No, man, I think you
Speaker 1: were older and you were more secure, and you were
Speaker 1: coming in, you know, as a professional actor should, which is,
Speaker 1: I've only got two lines. I'm gonna make them count,
Speaker 1: and you are able to scaffold your way up to
Speaker 1: the character and to the part in in in a conversation,
Speaker 1: a healthy creative conversation with the writing staff right where
Speaker 1: you're like, they write a couple of jokes for you.
Speaker 1: You come in, you do your thing, the audience responds.
Speaker 1: Next week they add more, and then you add more,
Speaker 1: and then you add more, and you can see that
Speaker 1: That's how Eric became the entire comic relief of Bodey's world,
Speaker 1: which is wonderful. But you know that it was in
Speaker 1: a healthy creative conversation. You know, I don't think that
Speaker 1: for Danielle and I or you know, I will speak
Speaker 1: for myself. I didn't have that same sort of creative conversation.
Speaker 1: I felt like I was living up to someone else's
Speaker 1: expectations and needing to match them in the dramatic sphere.
Speaker 1: Less so, because you know, and I think that's where
Speaker 1: I ended up thriving on the show as a more
Speaker 1: of a dramatic actor because I kind of tapped out
Speaker 1: of the comedy by season three, like and I think
Speaker 1: we'll see as we're watching, I think I just gave
Speaker 1: up because I was like, I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: that guy, Like I'm not that, you know. I just
Speaker 1: wasn't as interested in it first of all. But I
Speaker 1: also didn't want to compete in that field, you know,
Speaker 1: and it just was like no, whereas in the drama side,
Speaker 1: I felt much more comfortable. I felt like I could
Speaker 1: own it more. I felt like mine in a way
Speaker 1: because it was somewhat unexpected, and I don't think it was,
Speaker 1: you know, as as as built into the sitcom form,
Speaker 1: so I could sort of. I mean, the best part,
Speaker 1: the best moments in Going its World are funny, but
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily jokes, although frankly they're all jokes right right, right,
Speaker 1: but jokes can be better or worse delivered. They detonated
Speaker 1: in a certain way or not. Dramatic stuff it's arrived
Speaker 1: at differently and rendered different, so that that is a
Speaker 1: place where it's really hard to say. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can say something stupid like cry, Now that's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: I've got so very quickly. I've got a very funny
Speaker 1: David Trainer story because I was thinking to myself, like
Speaker 1: what sticks out in my head, and here's one of
Speaker 1: my favorites. We're doing a family scene in the kitchen
Speaker 1: and lially like they hurt. Lily's on running gag was
Speaker 1: loving something and then throwing it away, like where it's like,
Speaker 1: I love this and then they chuck it away and
Speaker 1: she wasn't getting it right. She had a doll. It
Speaker 1: was it was not this episode, it was a later episode,
Speaker 1: but she had a doll where she has to come
Speaker 1: down I love this doll and throw it away, and
Speaker 1: she wasn't throwing it right. David, You're getting a little
Speaker 1: more frustrated, a little more frustrated. So finally you go, Lily,
Speaker 1: it's not that hard. You just do this, and you
Speaker 1: picked at the doll and you threw it right through
Speaker 1: the window. It smashed right through the window and actually,
Speaker 1: actually that's right, it's just right through there. And we
Speaker 1: all lost it that everybody on the set was laughing
Speaker 1: astirday and he's like, it's not that hard. You just
Speaker 1: do this and smashes it right through the glass. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like the six ft four, How tall are you? David?
Speaker 1: Like towered over the basically came up to my kneecap
Speaker 1: and she the whole thing. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: jump ahead to the you know, at the end of
Speaker 1: the season, like this imperial capacity, but I'm blame. Came
Speaker 1: up before the show with the act after introduce in
Speaker 1: them you know here tonight to the audience and I
Speaker 1: just well, an we picked up for the season, and
Speaker 1: every you know, we all cheered and clapped and we're excited,
Speaker 1: and where she starts screaming, I don't want to do
Speaker 1: this so well, you know what that was? Actually that
Speaker 1: was actually the back nine of our fat was when
Speaker 1: we were taping the thirteenth episode and we got the
Speaker 1: back nine and Michael announced it in front of the
Speaker 1: audience and literally just started balling. Yeah, because that's the
Speaker 1: downside of you know, Danielle, you talk about you and
Speaker 1: clearly all three of you, how to ceiling for wanting
Speaker 1: to be performance, and how to be performance on your
Speaker 1: own terms, and how to relate to the needs the
Speaker 1: demands that made it she didn't want to Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was actually when you watch it, I think, who's
Speaker 1: that Wait, what little thing. Just wa you feel bad?
Speaker 1: I know, I I mean, yeah, we I'd love to
Speaker 1: I wish, I hope, I hope. I'd love to have
Speaker 1: her on to talk about her memories and her thoughts
Speaker 1: on it. And she's wonderful and doing very well and
Speaker 1: she's got a beautiful she's doing great. Um So, David,
Speaker 1: why did you not direct anymore after season two? Where
Speaker 1: did you go? What was what's the situation? Why didn't
Speaker 1: we see more of you? You know? We? I think
Speaker 1: I came back once or twice and did sort of
Speaker 1: like pop in and because it was fun to see
Speaker 1: you guys and fun to come back. My recollect I
Speaker 1: had done might have been showed before BOMs World called
Speaker 1: Where I Lived with Ducky Duck and I directed most
Speaker 1: and that like got twelve episodes and cancel something like that,
Speaker 1: although it was a lot of fun to do. And
Speaker 1: then and then after Bomi's World, we did another show
Speaker 1: or other shows like that might have been Betty White
Speaker 1: and very awesome. So I sort of moved on, and
Speaker 1: then we did we did another show called You Could
Speaker 1: Tell This was a Disaster. And they're making Misery Loves Company.
Speaker 1: That sounds like one of the there was this wonderful
Speaker 1: guy work for Michael years with Michael. You're saying, Bob
Speaker 1: Young credibly gifted, funny, gracious, he just heaven, you know,
Speaker 1: And we were preparing to do a part. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really are just dividly sitting in Michael's office at
Speaker 1: Disney Animation and we were casting, when we were doing
Speaker 1: something listen and Bob Young said, in this wonderful, faux
Speaker 1: plaintive voice, Oh, Michael, just once, can't we try to
Speaker 1: be successful? You know, the misery loves company. That's Michael
Speaker 1: things right that. I don't know that that's what Bob
Speaker 1: was addressing, but it was like that, like one of
Speaker 1: these really missed the guy. The ideas that Mike cos
Speaker 1: They's world however, however, was it was a very successful
Speaker 1: mix of aliments. That's the reason such a big success.
Speaker 1: And that's the reason that she met watched and remember, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you went on to direct every single episode of
Speaker 1: that sevent I was thinking about that. We were talking
Speaker 1: about it because those those guys when we started were
Speaker 1: a little older. They were sort of mid late teens.
Speaker 1: I think Meal with fifteen because I remember going to
Speaker 1: Meal a sixteenth birthday party, so I know she was fifteen,
Speaker 1: but which is older than twelve. I mean, it's yes,
Speaker 1: a big difference. She had acted a lot as it.
Speaker 1: But that was so freeing. Those guys were so inventive
Speaker 1: and that and the way we worked. You were left
Speaker 1: alone and did it, and they brought some characters, became them,
Speaker 1: and they became the characters, I mean the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And the writers. You know, the way I was thinking, writer,
Speaker 1: you were saying something before which I think it's been
Speaker 1: the truth. In an ideal world, a week of rehearsal
Speaker 1: on a multiple camera comedy is a conversation the writer's
Speaker 1: writers script, the actors were hurst on the show, and
Speaker 1: the writers responded, and the right respond to what the writers,
Speaker 1: and this conversation goes on back and forth until Friday night,
Speaker 1: or in the case of one's borth Thursday night, and
Speaker 1: then it's done. The conversations over when you shot, and
Speaker 1: then you started another conversation. The next Yeah seventies show
Speaker 1: was eight years of really engaging, interesting, funny conversations, and
Speaker 1: we got so we could do that show. We pre
Speaker 1: shot some stuff, but we do. We do two and
Speaker 1: a half hour, started, six thirty, be done. We do
Speaker 1: things twice and move on maybe with the line, but everybody,
Speaker 1: everybody was like so the freedom to be themselves and
Speaker 1: then to be remarkable. So I look at that, even
Speaker 1: though it's different in some respects because of the age difference,
Speaker 1: it's still about kids, right, So it's just an antithetical experience.
Speaker 1: And heaven, we'll look how successful and most of the
Speaker 1: cast has been after the show. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of that also comes from having that kind
Speaker 1: of environment to grow as an actor to where then
Speaker 1: you you have a love of of the craft and
Speaker 1: you want to go on and pursue it. Where a
Speaker 1: lot of us when we finished, boy were like, I'm
Speaker 1: done for a little while. Um, And I think that's
Speaker 1: a there's a big difference. I mean truly, well they
Speaker 1: had you guys were I think that's right. You know
Speaker 1: that you you whatever great gifts Because you look at
Speaker 1: the Sharmena and I see the gifts that you guys
Speaker 1: broke to you. You come away and think this was
Speaker 1: not fun. It was not seventy show was blast completely.
Speaker 1: Times are times and didn't. It's like episodes, they're not
Speaker 1: all bliss, but overall, Yeah, and I don't think that
Speaker 1: any of you would say, yeah, I got I got
Speaker 1: a little I got away with it a little more.
Speaker 1: I had a little more of the freedom. I was
Speaker 1: kind of left alone a little bit more, which gave
Speaker 1: me a little more love of the genre that I
Speaker 1: think the younger cast was. Who I think we're beating
Speaker 1: up a little more than I was. I mean there
Speaker 1: were times where I just kind of slid under the
Speaker 1: radar and would do what I wanted to do, and
Speaker 1: you guys would be kind of battered a little bit. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh, different experiences on different sets. I guess would
Speaker 1: be high. I know some guys we're talking about their
Speaker 1: sons who were good baseball in high school and you know,
Speaker 1: come up towards college and come up there with stent
Speaker 1: verging on being able to keep professional basebook place, and
Speaker 1: they would have a high school coach that we beat
Speaker 1: the love of the game. By the time they got
Speaker 1: out of high school, they didn't want to play basebook.
Speaker 1: I have two friends that had that with the where
Speaker 1: the kids were really good and the coach over stressful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just said, not playing. Yeah, it's so when I
Speaker 1: hear those stories, I'm so sad. Do you have a
Speaker 1: favorite episode looking back, have you, first of all, have
Speaker 1: you watched other than us asking you to rewatch episode
Speaker 1: number one oh four for us? Have you ever watched
Speaker 1: another another episode? Do you remember any other episodes? Do
Speaker 1: you have a favorite? No, I remember because I haven't
Speaker 1: really watched it. I don't really watched stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't even really watch that seventy show once in
Speaker 1: a while. I mean I remember going to a gym
Speaker 1: where it was on sometimes the city I'd look up
Speaker 1: and say that was mine back to But but I
Speaker 1: I really don't like watching, so I liked what I
Speaker 1: liked watching the episode that we were watched here. What
Speaker 1: I remember is basically troupe setups, things like the classes
Speaker 1: or the bed or the you know, you remember that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff because half our comedies like this are
Speaker 1: made up of recognizable elements that are assembled differently every right,
Speaker 1: the character elements are different, and seeing it or the storytelling,
Speaker 1: the elements are different. But it's like, I mean, I
Speaker 1: just a ridiculous analysis of forgiving me. But it's like
Speaker 1: classical ballet. There's five steps, right, that's it. There's flavet steps.
Speaker 1: Look what you can do flast steps? Yeah, I say
Speaker 1: the blues is three chords, but some people can play
Speaker 1: it really, really well. Did you keep in touch with
Speaker 1: anyone producers? Writers? Are you in touch with Michael? Is
Speaker 1: there anybody who kept no no David Kendall over the years,
Speaker 1: Dandy Kendall a divine again, Like, here's this interesting thing
Speaker 1: Michael attracted really Yeah, and they ended up there about
Speaker 1: but they were like David Kendall and jump, you know,
Speaker 1: great David. David Kendall and I still have a great relationship,
Speaker 1: a wonderful smart When I started directing, I shadowed Kendall
Speaker 1: and it was it was crazy. It was like, man,
Speaker 1: look at us thirty years later. He's such a good guy,
Speaker 1: and he's gay, and and Bob Young just stupendously Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and sort of again, what's interesting about that? Very
Speaker 1: accomplished and high people with high standards, but temperamentally relaxed.
Speaker 1: I think of myself. I don't know whether I'm temperamentally
Speaker 1: relaxed or not. I wasn't relaxed here, Michael. I was
Speaker 1: throwing up in Babo Park, right. But basically that Michael
Speaker 1: picked people to work with him who would go to
Speaker 1: the other side of the book, who understood that balancing.
Speaker 1: So they're wonderful gods. I mean, David Candid as a prince.
Speaker 1: Do you quick question, do you remember working with April Kelly? Yes, dimly.
Speaker 1: You know, she got marginalized as a voice quite early.
Speaker 1: What a surprise based on and then I think by
Speaker 1: the second year she had withdrawn drawn because I see
Speaker 1: it was who knows that's about mine? Well, she's listed
Speaker 1: as a writer on both this episode one oh four
Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about next and one oh
Speaker 1: three that we talked about last week. We had Bill
Speaker 1: and Bonnie on and she's listed as a writer and
Speaker 1: both of those and both of those episodes are incredible. Um.
Speaker 1: And so it is such a shame that she didn't
Speaker 1: stick around and didn't, you know, get to do more
Speaker 1: because I never saw her again, by the way, never know,
Speaker 1: nothing absolutely disappeared. And I think it was probably there's
Speaker 1: no room for another voice. Can't have two generals in
Speaker 1: that room, and and and so she had to be gotten.
Speaker 1: But so she's like she's like our J. D. Salinger though,
Speaker 1: like where is she in the world? Make a mission
Speaker 1: of this podcast? Knows what she remembers and what she
Speaker 1: would you know, I'm still wherever I've said in this podcast,
Speaker 1: I'm still holding that like crazy, So I go along.
Speaker 1: But you know, but there wasn't room for another. There
Speaker 1: wasn't room for and it's it's sort of undignified. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to be co creator and then to be treated like
Speaker 1: cast off. Are you speaking? Yeah? Yeah, well yeah, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say it's hard. It's it was really hard
Speaker 1: to be a girl and a woman in um in
Speaker 1: that environment. For that is a very democratic way of saying, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's you know something, And here's what's important. The president
Speaker 1: of Michael's company was Dog Turnosky, a woman of tremendous
Speaker 1: and smart and I mean did for Michael, held the business,
Speaker 1: held that dysfunctional part of Michael's universe, held it together,
Speaker 1: and she became, you know, the head of head of
Speaker 1: the c W. She's a major platify. She's really smart
Speaker 1: and nice and great and she so in a funny way, Michael,
Speaker 1: it's not an environment for women. And yet there was
Speaker 1: somebody absolutely central to the Yes, it was Yes, I
Speaker 1: remember don she was, I remember her being ridiculously smart. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Susan Jansen was another one. I remember, being a Harvard
Speaker 1: lad and I don't stay tough, and I stay tough
Speaker 1: with admiration, you know, with a with a willingness and
Speaker 1: ability to take it whatever it was. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: when people say you're just so resilient, and you know
Speaker 1: they mean it as a compliment, and yet really how
Speaker 1: you feel is I wish I didn't have to be
Speaker 1: so resilient, which were amazing. Yeah. Well, coming up next,
Speaker 1: we are going to recap episode number one oh four
Speaker 1: Corey's Alternative Friends. We're going to walk through um so
Speaker 1: many memories, including how I came up with the choreography
Speaker 1: for the famous Doughnut in the Sky dance while also
Speaker 1: being terrified that I was going to get fired. So
Speaker 1: that'll be fun, and David is sticking around, So join
Speaker 1: us for episode the next episode one oh four Corey's
Speaker 1: Alternative Friends, where David Trainer joins us to talk about
Speaker 1: the episode. First time we see Tapanga, that's the first
Speaker 1: time we see Tapanga. Can't amazing, amazing, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: And the first time we meet my sister Stacy. Yes,
Speaker 1: the last legend, and it's also the last time we
Speaker 1: meet your last Stacy reference. All right, don't forget. You
Speaker 1: can follow us on pod Meets World Show on Instagram,
Speaker 1: and also be sure to email us your thoughts, your opinions,
Speaker 1: what you want to hear more of things you love,
Speaker 1: things you don't love. You can email us at Pod
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Speaker 1: produced and hosted by Daniel Fishel Wilfred L and Ryder
Speaker 1: Strong Executive producers, Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in
Speaker 1: charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Taara soup Boch, producer,
Speaker 1: Lorraine Vurez, Engineering Boy meets World super fan Eastern Allen.
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Speaker 1: us at Pod Meats World Show at gmail dot com