WEBVTT - The Sick Day May Be Over for At-Home Workers 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.120 It's Thursday, jan I'm Oscar Emiras from the Daily Dive 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.240 podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. For 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.720 those working remotely, the sick day may be gone. As 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.560 the Amicron variant continues to cause disruptions. Some remote workers 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.480 are experiencing mild symptoms and are opting to work through it. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.320 Some figure that since they're not in the office posing 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.799 a risk to others, they are taking the posture of 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.080 if I can work, I'll work. Katherine Dill, reporter at 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.640 The Wall Street Journal, joins us for Americans complicated relationship 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.640 with taking time off. Thanks for joining us, Katherine, my pleasure. 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.440 Let's talk about the sick day. It seems to be 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.240 going by the wayside now, at least for remote workers. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.760 In some cases, we're seeing all the disruptions obviously that's 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.479 going on because of COVID nineteen. With this Amicron variant, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.159 what we're seeing is a lot of more milder infections. Thankfully, 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.880 you know that's not across the board, but that's what 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.000 we're finding out is happening a lot of times. And 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.400 if you're work from home, you know you're obviously already 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.479 away from the office. You don't have to worry about 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.279 infecting coworkers things like that. So a lot of people 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.320 are opting to just say, hey, you know, it's not 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.119 so bad, I'll work through the day, or even managers 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.720 facing shortages are even asking their employees if you can 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.360 work if you're not so sick. You know, maybe maybe 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.760 hop on a few calls or a few meetings or something. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.280 So Catherine, tell us what's going on with the sick 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.920 day right now. Certainly, well, if this is something we 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.360 were seeing a little bit of before the pandemic, folks 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.920 had a few more options for if they were sick, 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:32.560 and it gave them a little bit of pause to 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.720 think about coming in. And you know, everybody's had that 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:36.679 experience of sitting next to the person who's just like 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.800 hacking away during the work day at their death, but 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.080 you know they're putting in their time. And so this 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.080 was changing a little bit before the pandemic. But then 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.520 with the onset of of COVID, calling your boss and 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.240 saying I've tested positive for COVID was away for some 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.680 workers to actually be able to check out. Certainly they 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.480 were also feeling sick, but it was a way for 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:57.960 folks to say you know, like I have to go 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:59.760 back to bed, I have to rest, I need a 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.080 sick day. With omicron, what we're seeing is that lots 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.360 of people are sick at the same time right now 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.680 because of the extremely high case count, but many people, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.080 because of rising vaccination rates and boosters, are experiencing much 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.760 much milder cases. And that can still mean you feel ill, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.679 but it's not necessarily debilitating. And so we see lots 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.920 of folks choosing to work through the day. You know, 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.000 a few people we talked to you said, there's not 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.760 much to do when you're an adult who's maybe you know, 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.400 isolated part of your house, away from your kids or 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.200 your family. Um, some people chose to work. Others felt cracker. 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:34.359 And of course a lot of employers, as you set, 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.960 are facing worker shortages. So the incentive to continue plugging 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.560 away is high. Now we've talked a lot about this 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.960 for a long time now. Americans have this weird relationship 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.800 with working. Uh, you know, becomes people identities. You feel 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:50.680 like you have to work all the time. You know, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.440 this compared to other countries, let's say, and the Americans 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.600 and notorious for not taking time off. I mean I think, uh, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:02:59.720 some of the stats that we have, a quarter of 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.240 you paid time off was left on the table for 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.079 a lot of Americans sick days to just people aren't 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.680 taking all the available sick time that they have. And 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.680 this is kind of a pre pandemic thing, right. People 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:11.880 would often just go to work even though they had 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.200 a mild cold or something and just work through it. 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.120 But this is that complicated relationship that we have with 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.000 taking time off, you know, as you said, this is 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.160 something that Americans are known for being really bad at. 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.000 And it's true across the board on types of paid 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.480 time off, you know, as you said, like Americans left 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.720 a lot of vacation time on the table even before 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.080 the pandemic, and certainly we saw even more vacation go 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.600 unused because there was also the thinking about, like, well, 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.600 what am I'm not supposed to go anywhere or do anything. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.160 It's not safe, so what am I going to do 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.440 with this time off? But it's true also with sick time, 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:49.040 we see Americans sort of reluctant to take discrete days 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.000 that they have that are satisfied for illness when they 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.200 need them. I should coveyat this by saying that lots 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.120 of Americans do not receive paid sick days, So we 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.000 are talking about folks who have the option and just 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.120 aren't taking it. Yeah, I mean that's an important distinction, right, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.640 people who have the option of having the paid sick time, 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.760 people who have the option of remote work. You know, 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.440 we there's a lot of people that don't have that 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.040 luxury obviously, and if they get sick, you know, the 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.240 way current rules are said, you know, you have to 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.480 stay away from people so you don't get others infected. 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.599 So definitely, you know, a very specific thing we're talking about. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.640 But what would doctors and health experts say about even 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.440 working at home while you're sick. I mean, you might 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:28.480 not feel so bad, but the body does still need 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.760 to rest things like that, Yes, exactly. You know, the 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.080 sense is if this is something that's going to help 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.880 you deal, you know, if you feel well enough that 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.800 working seems like an option that will help you fill 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:45.000 your time while you're sitting out a quarantine. Fine, but 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.400 you do need time to recover, especially with some of 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.400 like the omicron Darry. You know, we're seeing symptoms manifests 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.280 or differently in different people and the onset sometimes it 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.360 is a little bit later for some people. And so 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.000 the medical consensus does seem to be, you know, like 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.120 you need the time, you need the time to rest 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.200 and recover. That being said, we talked to a lot 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.960 of workers who felt that they had flexibility. You know, 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.600 they could say, I got up in the morning and 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:09.320 I felt pretty good, so I said, you know, I 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.840 sent some females, maybe I hopped on a call, maybe 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.440 I got a few things done. But then as my 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.839 energy started to flag, or I got dizzy or something 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.560 like that, I just took a nap, or you know, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:18.960 I went to bed for the rest of the day, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.520 or I had a rest. And so we we see 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.200 we see workers taking advantage of that sort of new 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.160 quote unquote flexibility around this too. And that's such an 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.960 important thing, right because what if people are relying on you, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.000 then midwood day you do feel bad, you know, then 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.200 it just causes all these other problems. It's like, well, 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.200 you should have took the sick day to begin with. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.160 And you know, you spoke to a teacher, a substitute 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.040 teacher um who said, hey, we went to remote learning. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.359 I was sick. I said, let's do the classes. Anyways, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.880 we're remote and uh, even by the end of his session. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.679 You know, he said he was falling asleep on camera almost, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.640 so it still could be you know, caused an issue 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.719 with trying to work through the day without having to 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.320 take the sick time. It's not ideal. So only you 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.320 know this, this flexibility is more available to some workers 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.159 than others. So like, if you have an office job 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.719 and some autonomy and you can't sort of block out 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.040 your time with things like sending emails, are dipping in 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:12.680 and out of a meeting or doing a quick check 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:14.440 in or something like that, this is going to work 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.599 for you a lot better than for someone like the 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.680 example in the story that the substitute teacher who was 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.359 worried there wouldn't be anyone even to replace him and 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.880 needed he needed to be on zoom all day teaching classes. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.760 That flexibility is not going to be available to him, 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:30.080 and the way it would be to somebody with a 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.280 different job. Well, just an interesting look at what's going on. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.120 You know, when the pandemic was happening, people were saying, hey, 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.040 you know, this is a good thing that people are 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.359 actually taking the time to take the sick time and 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.800 get better. But now with the remote work and all 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.000 this stuff, we're going back to our old ways in 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.840 a sense by working through the day anyway, So we'll 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.040 see how it all pans out. Katherine Dill, reporter at 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.200 the Wall Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us. 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:59.760 Great to be here. Thanks. I'm Oscar Romeris and this 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.640 is in reopening America. Don't forget different today's big news stories. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.440 You can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.039 every Monday to Friday. So follow us on I Heart 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.200 Radio or wherever you get your podcast.