1 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: Thank you personally, Fuelsman. It's some of the love and 2 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: all things relationships, and that's what we're going to get 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: into all month. But for today, we're talking about a 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: relationship that many people may not even realize they have 5 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: a relationship with money. I'm bringing on a woman this 6 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: week to share why money isn't just math but emotional wiring. 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: She's going to help us unpack our money shames so 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: we can all move forward to have a better relationship 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: with money. This week, I'm joined by Shauna Game. I'm 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: so excited to talk to her all about money stuff. 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: She is the author of Unraveling Your Relationship with Money, 12 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: and we are going to do some unraveling today. That's 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: what's about to happen. Welcome Shauna. Thanks so much for 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: having me de scited to talk to you about all 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: the things. But before we get into that, I love 16 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: to hear the background and why this topic is so 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: important to you. I want to hear a little bit 18 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: of your story and the genesis of all of this 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: before we really dive into the good details of everything. 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: My first sort of foray into business actually was when 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 2: I was in college, and at the time I started 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: what was the first national Student Film Festival, and I 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: ran that for five years and ended up actually selling 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: it to a Hollywood producer. Crazy story, but that was 25 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 2: really like my boots on the ground rogue BA style 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: learning about money, because I had to learn about everything 27 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: budgeting and pr and guests and just all sorts of things. 28 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: And it wasn't until after that I went and got 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: an MBA and my dad had been in the financial 30 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: industry his whole career and he had a small firm 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: and he was like, I'm bored, Do you want to 32 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: come work with me? I'm like, yeah, sure, why not? 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: And it was interesting because at that time he was 34 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: working with people who had a lot of money. This 35 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: was in Los Angeles, people with multimillion dollar estates, and 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: I was working with my MBA corehorts who knew nothing 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: about personal finance. And I started to see the same 38 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: things emerged that regardless of how much money somebody had, 39 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: they all got stuck in the same patterns, in the 40 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: same belief systems and the same sort of mindsets around money. 41 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 2: And that was really my first awakening that hey, there's 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: more to this than just reading a book, right and 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: learning how to do a budget and learning how to 44 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 2: save and all those sorts of things. But it really 45 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: wasn't until I went through a divorce in my very 46 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 2: early thirties where I lost everything. I lost basically had 47 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: to walk away from all my possessions and to pay 48 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: my ex husband, and I saw my money that I realized, like, WHOA, Okay, 49 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: this relationship with money is a thing, and I better 50 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: start practicing what I'm trying to teach clients, because I 51 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: was not, and I was anxious around money. And that 52 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: was really where sort of the genesis of all of 53 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: this came together. And I'm a certified financial planner, a 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: trauma of money expert. But where I love to play 55 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: is with women, and particularly women in what I call 56 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: kind of our midlife. Right, so we've had enough things 57 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: happen to us, and we are anxious about money. We're 58 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: nervous about money. But on the outside, we're like high 59 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: performing women, right, Like we're doing things and we're in 60 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 2: our career and we've got families, and nobody would think 61 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: that inside we're like these nervous, anxious people around money. 62 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: And so I like to really help decode this for 63 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: women and show them that you're not bad with money. Right, 64 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: you just haven't learned the skill set around unraveling your 65 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: relationship with money and coming to a place where you 66 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: know your nervous system can relax and feel safe around money. 67 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's start there, because you talk about the 68 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: relationship with money, and so many people I've watched a 69 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: lot of your videos and their relationship with money as 70 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: the first it comes to debt or what their net 71 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: worth is, or how have I saved for retirement. There's 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: just so much associated with money. But you're the first 73 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: person I've really come across where it's like this relationship 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: with money. So let's start there. Tell me what that 75 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: looks like for you when you're working with people and 76 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: you're seeing relationships with money. 77 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: Morgan, it's just if we're in a relationship with anyone else, 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 2: Like I just read that you got engaged right over 79 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 2: the congratulations, thank you. So it's the same thing as 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 2: if you're in relationship with a partner, right, Like you've 81 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: got to give some sort of teal see to the relationship. 82 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 2: There's a give and take, there's compromise, there's an effort 83 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: that you have to put into like making a relationship, 84 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: and certainly when you're talking about marriage, that's a whole 85 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,559 Speaker 2: other battle of wax. It's the same thing around money, 86 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: because I say that money is the longest relationship we're 87 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: ever going to have in our lives, right, It follo 88 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: from day one all the way until at the very end. 89 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: And so most of us are in some sort of negative, shameful, 90 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 2: guilt ridden relationship around money, like we should do these things, 91 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: but we do the opposite. Or we go spend money 92 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 2: and have drinks to their friends and then we feel 93 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 2: really guilty. Or we read articles right or social media 94 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 2: about people and we're like, oh, I should have a 95 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: seven figure business now and I don't. And it's constantly 96 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 2: around us. And I think the really important thing is 97 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: to first ask yourself, like how do I feel about money? 98 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: And whatever? Your answer to that question is, I need 99 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: to dig a little deeper. Why is that? If I'm 100 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: anxious around money? Why is that? Where does that come from? 101 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: Did I witness that in childhood? Parents or ever raised me. 102 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: Was I in a maybe a relationship where there was 103 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: some sort of financial abuse, or did I struggle when 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: I came out of college? Where does this anxiety come from? 105 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: And that's the police we start at to redevelop and 106 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: sort of rewire this relationship around money. 107 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: Okay, and I'm assuming too, based on what you're saying, 108 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: this also relates to their financial trauma that a lot 109 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: of people experience. So they're depending on the things that 110 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: they have experienced through their life and what's gone on. 111 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: There could be this more traumatizing side of that where 112 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: it's not just anxiety and it's not just stressed. It 113 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: might be a little bit even further deeper than that. 114 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I use like trauma's kind of a big word, right. 115 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: We hear the word trauma a lot, and I really 116 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: just want, if you're listening, you to think about it 117 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: as any place that just feels like a little icky 118 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: around money, and it could be something big, like maybe 119 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: you grew up in poverty, maybe there was lack For instance, 120 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: my husband grew up in a family where they were 121 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: always having to move because they were always delinquent on 122 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: home payments because his stepdad would lose jobs and he 123 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: would come up from school and they'd have to like 124 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: move to a new house, the electricity would be off, 125 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: or whatever it might be that created like this deep 126 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: sense of trauma and just nervous always. We can have 127 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: a bill come in and he just you know, immediately 128 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: you can see him go to an anxiety response around that, 129 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: and it's just because it's so wired in him right 130 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: from being so young. So you can have something like that. 131 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: But trauma could also show up in situations like maybe 132 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: you forgot to pay a bill and maybe that bill 133 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: went to collections, and then maybe it lowered your credit score, 134 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: and so every time you like log down to your 135 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: bank app, you're expecting to see something terrible happen, and 136 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: you're just like your body and your nervous system is 137 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: just stuck kind of in that moment and it just 138 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: doesn't know how to figure its way out. So trauma 139 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: can be something big, but it also could be these 140 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: little nuanced moments that don't necessarily have to be negative, 141 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: but they just tell your body like whoa, Okay, we've 142 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: either got a freeze or we got to flee or 143 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: we gotta fights. Right, we have to have some sort 144 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: of response that's happening. 145 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: And I would imagine too, it also goes on the 146 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: flip side of this too, where if you're so stingy 147 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: with money where you save consistently, you don't utilize your 148 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: money for we love to say on social media your 149 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: free will to do things where you'd like to go 150 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: out and explore the world and be adventurous or go 151 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: to dinner with your friends, and you're so stingy. I 152 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: would imagine that's also a side to this, and not 153 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: just that really hardcore side. 154 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up, because that's 155 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: absolutely the truth. Like, we can see it on both sides. 156 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: Sometimes people are stuck in and I see this a 157 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 2: lot with women too. We're stuck in being like older 158 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: conservative because we've got the messaging around money that we 159 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: have to be quote unquote good girls, and we're just 160 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: still not sure what that means. Are we supposed to spend? 161 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: Are we supposed to save? Are we supposed to never 162 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: do something? Are we supposed to be big in our careers? 163 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: Are we supposed to be small in our careers? Like, 164 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: it's just your brain is just on overload, and this 165 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: is all of us, right, you're laughing, but I'm I'm 166 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: sure you probably like, oh. 167 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just honestly, anything with being a woman is 168 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: so complex, and this just adds to another list of 169 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: things where I'm like, yeah, that tracks okay, I just 170 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: pushed it aside and probably a lot of my messaging. 171 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, there isn't necessarily like when we talk 172 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: about relationship with money, we talk about financial trumba. There 173 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: isn't a right or wrong side to be on. And 174 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: that's something I really want people to understand, because I 175 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: feel like there's this falsity out there that there is 176 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: like a perfect way to do money, and there are 177 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 2: these certain like hierarchies that you need to be at 178 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: certain ages, and if you're not at that hierarchy, then 179 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: you know you're not doing something right and you're a 180 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 2: bad person. And so that really ends up breeding even 181 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: and war, shame and guilt into just an already complex 182 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: environment around money. And so I really want to just 183 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 2: break down that stereotypes. There isn't anything perfect. There isn't 184 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: a necessarily always a right choice. You could do this 185 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: or you could do that, but it depends on what 186 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 2: do you ultimately want to do in your life. So 187 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: that's I think what makes it really tricky, and it 188 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: makes it hard to just listen to a money podcast 189 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: episode or just read a book and be like, oh, 190 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: I know instantly what I should do. It's just not 191 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: that easy and I so. 192 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: Want to keep going down this rabbit hole. But something 193 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: in what you just said really taught me something of 194 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: what I've been seeing a lot on social media. Being 195 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: in comment sections is one of my least favorite and 196 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: favorite things. I learn a lot about people. I see 197 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: a lot of main people take what you will. But 198 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: something that I've really noticed about a lot of people, 199 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: especially on financial posts, is you're just seeing a lot 200 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: of there's lost hope in the belief that they can 201 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: have things that their parents had, that they can have 202 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: a house when the finances now look so differently, And 203 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: there's this conversation about this start comparison about what people 204 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: today are experiencing versus what people twenty thirty, fifty years 205 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: ago experience when it came to affording things. And I'm 206 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: curious your take on this because I feel like this 207 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: is something that would be so in your wheelhouse and 208 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: I'm sad reading a lot of it online and just 209 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: vast differences that people are experiencing. 210 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: I think that no matter what generation we're dealing with, 211 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 2: they're gonna be these huge differences. If we look at 212 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: our parents and how they grew up, they did not 213 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: have access to social media, like we have. They were 214 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: not online, they were not running podcasts, like, things were 215 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: just very different. If we look back to our grandparents 216 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 2: and my great grandparents generation, specifically women, they did not 217 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 2: have access to credit they didn't have access to bank accounts, 218 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: they didn't have access to credit cards, right, and so 219 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 2: there's always going to be something different in each generation. 220 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 2: And I think it's really easy to highlight the things 221 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: that feel out of our control, right, Like we can't 222 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: control what the stock market's doing, we can't control what 223 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: the interest rates are, we can't control what home prices are, Like, 224 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: there are a lot of things that are just absolutely 225 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 2: out of our control. But it's really easy to highlight 226 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: those because they make really good headlines. And we're taught 227 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: via social media and now with news that if we 228 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: can't capture your attention in the first three seconds, you're 229 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: not going to pay attention. And so we go with 230 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: these big, splashy, big headlines, especially around money, and that 231 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: makes you feel probably usually even worse about yourself that 232 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 2: you're not in that situation. But I want you to 233 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: focus on what you can control, the things that you 234 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: can do, and part of that starts with this relationship 235 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 2: with money, with thinking about how do I want to 236 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 2: spend and save my money and what do I actually 237 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: want to spend and save my moneys? And so I 238 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: think when we can bring the focus more internal, we 239 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: can feel a greater sense of control and even though 240 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: there are so many things that are up against us, 241 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: it doesn't mean we still can't move towards those or 242 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 2: make those happen. If that makes sense. 243 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: It absolutely does, and I love that because again, this 244 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: is just a really hot topic on social media, but 245 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: not even just that people are posting about, but you 246 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: see it on those posts where it goes, if you 247 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: have this amount of money, you can afford this house, 248 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: and you can do this in five years and save 249 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: the rabbit holes of especially AI and chat GBT or 250 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: helping people create this content, right, But really in the 251 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: comment section is where the humanity is happening, and people 252 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: are discussing, Okay, I can't afford this, and there's just 253 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: feels like this lost hope. And I love the idea 254 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: of talking about relationship with money because I do want 255 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: to give people hope. I want them to have control 256 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: of their life back in a sense of what they're 257 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: seeing online may not actually be their reality, even if 258 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: it is broken down in a certain way and a 259 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: certain chart to show some similar thing. And so, speaking 260 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: on that relationship of money, what can somebody do? You 261 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: mention those questions to ask themselves, But what can somebody 262 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: really do to start working on that relationship with money? 263 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: Where does that all begin? 264 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: There's an exercise that sounds really simple that I love 265 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 2: to suggest to people, but I promise you it once 266 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: you do it, there's more complexity to it than it sounds. 267 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: But I want you to get out a blank sheet 268 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: of paper. Don't do this on your computer. You actually 269 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 2: need to like handwrite this out. 270 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: Oh I love a handwriting activity. 271 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: Handwriting. We're going back to handwriting. Set your phone timer 272 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: for fifteen minutes, and I want you to just get out. 273 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: I want you to just write with like reckless, abandon 274 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: everything that you wish you would have done around money, 275 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: that feels unfair, that you're upset about, Like everything you 276 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: feel like is a mistake. I just want you to 277 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: vomit it out on this sheet of paper. When the 278 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 2: timer's up, step away, just walk away. Come back twenty 279 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: four hours later. Quick read over. You're going to notice 280 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: different patterns that start to emerge when you've removed yourself 281 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: a little bit from this. But the last part of 282 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: this exercise is we've got to get rid of it. 283 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: We've got to shred it, burn it, tear it up, 284 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: something whatever feels like the right mechanism for you. There 285 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: is science behind obviously writing things down on paper, getting 286 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: them out of our heads, right, That helps get it 287 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: out of our nervous system. And then there's science behind 288 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: getting rid of something. And it doesn't immediately take this 289 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: stuff away from you, but it starts to tell your 290 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: body and your nervous system. Hey, okay, maybe we don't 291 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: like what's happened to us in the past, but there 292 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: is a way we can recreate something moving forward. So 293 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: then I need you to think about what is it 294 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: I actually really want and what is actually enough. So 295 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: we spend so much time in what we think other 296 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: people's version of enough is that this is where like 297 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: comparison starts to come up, and a lot of guilt 298 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: around money. But I want you to think about what 299 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 2: is enough for me? How much money do I need, 300 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: what kind of career do I want, where do I 301 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 2: want to live, what do I like? Really think about that, right, 302 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: because once we can create what enough looks like for you. 303 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: And my guess is there's already some pieces of that 304 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: you're living today, you just might not be recognizing it. 305 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: But once we have that sketch, then it's okay, Now, 306 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: how do we get our money to actually take us 307 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: in that direction? And so we want to start bringing 308 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: this back internally but in a healthy way, so that 309 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: we can start just baby stepping our way towards what 310 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: that vision of enoughness is. 311 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: Oh enoughness? Yeah, And that's tough, right, because we've been 312 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: taught growing up, and I'll speak from my personal experience, 313 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: you get taught certain things growing up. Or you need 314 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: to make sure you're saving by this point, make sure 315 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: you have this prepared. You need to have a career 316 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: that sustains you. You need to have financial freedom, you 317 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: need to invest, you need to I can tell you 318 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: the messaging that I've just taken in from every corner 319 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: of the world on money, and it's so interesting to 320 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: reframe that to think what actually is enough for me? 321 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: Because I've been listening to everybody else this whole time. 322 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 2: Yes, and you're not alone. That's the beauty. That's the beauty. 323 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: And this is a thing that if I could go 324 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: out and just create this movement of especially women. If 325 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: we could just talk about all the things that we 326 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: really struggle with around money, we would see that we 327 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: are so much alike. It's so funny because every time 328 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: I work with a woman or I have a group 329 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: cohort program and I have twenty women at a time, 330 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: they say the exact same things around money. It's just 331 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: like clockwork. And so it's really interesting because like, regardless 332 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: of how much money we make, regardless of our demographic, 333 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 2: regardless of our backgrounds and our ethnicities, we tend to 334 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: fall in the same sort of patterns and mistakes and 335 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 2: beliefs around money. We just don't talk about it, so 336 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 2: it feels like super isolating and you feel like I 337 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 2: must be the only one who has not done this 338 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: or who has done this. 339 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: And I'd love to if you feel like you can, 340 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear some of those patterns or behaviors 341 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: that we're all similar, because sometimes we have to have 342 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: it spelled out to really think, oh, that is me, 343 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: because they could be listening right now, whoever it is, 344 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: and be like, that's not me. I haven't done that. 345 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: But then you start to hear the language and you're like, 346 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: oh crap, that is me. I am in that group. 347 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: So some of those patterns, behaviors, things that you see 348 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: a lot of people alike having these same thoughts and 349 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: feelings on if you're able to share, would be awesome. 350 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: For sure, and they're I'm going to just throw them 351 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 2: out and we can dissect whichever ones you want to. 352 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 2: But certainly the first one is always around this enough thing. Right, 353 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 2: So it's always some form of I don't have enough, 354 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: I will never have enough, there isn't enough, and it's regardless. Again, 355 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: I worked with someone a couple weeks ago who made 356 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: over seven figures a year, and the first thing out 357 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: of her mouth was, my biggest fear is there's not enough. 358 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: And so there's just this feeling I think of just 359 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: constant lack, and it's just perpetuated by social media and 360 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 2: society and all of this. Right, So this idea of 361 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 2: I'm behind, I'm just chronically behind. I'm never going to 362 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: be able to catch up. Another one is that your money, 363 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 2: and this kind of goes with career, that it should 364 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: be a solid upward line that if there are any blips, 365 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: if I get laid off or a client fires me, 366 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 2: or whatever it might be in your line of work. 367 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: That doesn't happen to other people. And I'm going to 368 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: tell you other people might not admit it, but it 369 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: happens all the time, all the time. It is never 370 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 2: an upward line, and anyone who tells you it is 371 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: is just lying through their teeth, right. It's their twists 372 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: and turns. And people have to do things like people 373 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: have to pull money out of their retirement plans, people 374 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: have to ask parents for loans, people have to turn 375 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 2: to credit cards. There is just stuff that happens. And 376 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 2: so that makes us feel very shameful when we're up 377 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 2: against those types of decisions because we feel like I'm 378 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: filling the blank age. I should not need to ask 379 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 2: my parents for help, or I should not have to 380 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: put this on a credit card, or I should not 381 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: be in debt, or I should not have to pull 382 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: money out of my retirement plan. And so that feels 383 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: very lonely, right, and it goes back to this idea 384 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: of I'm not good with money, I can't be trusted 385 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: with money. Look at me, I just did this. A 386 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: lot of women and a lot of people have this 387 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: scenario where you get out of debt and then you 388 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: get back in debt, and then you might get out 389 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: of debt, then you might get back in debt, and 390 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: you feel so terrible when you're in the place of debt. 391 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: And so what we also tend to do is associate 392 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 2: whatever numbers in our bank account with our identity. That 393 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: if I have X amount of dollars, ooh, I feel 394 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 2: a certain way about myself. But if I get a raise, ooh, 395 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: I feel a different way. And oh then I lost 396 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: my job. Oh now I'm feeling And so we tie 397 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: these two things together that really need to be separated, 398 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: otherwise we're just constantly going to be drug around by 399 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: this thing called money. 400 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: Love to know too, because I'm hearing you share all 401 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: of these and what is the balance? Right? We talk 402 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: about what is enough? But then it's okay, there is 403 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: a level of I do need to save and I don't. 404 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to be in debt, and I also 405 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: would like to live my life. Where is this middle ground? 406 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: Where do we find that? How do we find that? 407 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 2: I think it comes from really thinking out the choices 408 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 2: that we're making and really having some ownership, which kind 409 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: of sucks a lot at the time. Over it, I 410 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: will say I struggle with this myself, I don't really 411 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: want to do that, or oh, I really want to 412 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 2: go out and spend the money. And so I like 413 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 2: to teach like a pause. So you're up against a 414 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: spending decision, right, just built in half a second pause 415 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 2: where you can ask yourself, Okay, this is really what 416 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 2: I want to do. If the answer is yeah, I 417 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: really want to do it, Okay, am I gonna be 418 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: okay with it tomorrow? I don't know, build yourself in 419 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 2: this little questioning model. Now A lot of times the 420 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 2: answer can be yes, right, because this is not we're 421 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 2: not going for absolute perfection here. We're going for seventy 422 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: percent of the time. Maybe I pause and decide, Okay, 423 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: I'm gonna you know what, I'm gonna wait till tomorrow, 424 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: and if I still want to buy the thing tomorrow, 425 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 2: then I'll go ahead and do it right. And we 426 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: know usually tomorrow comes and we've already decided we don't 427 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 2: need the thing. 428 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: Right. 429 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: So I think you need to create a system for 430 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: yourself where you build in some of these tiny little 431 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: pauses where you can think through your spending and saving 432 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: decisions in a way that feels a little bit more 433 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: grounded and a little less like, especially around spending right, 434 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: a little less I need a dopamine hit. Can I 435 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: get my dopamine hit somewhere else? Like maybe I should 436 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 2: just go have a piece of chocolate or go for 437 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 2: a walk or something. And then sometimes it's no, I 438 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 2: need the dopamine hit. I'm just gonna go buy the thing. 439 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: But bringing this sense of intention so instead of feeling 440 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: like you're out of control with it, especially if you 441 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: have debt, right and you want to pay off the debt, 442 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 2: it's bring it back into your body, bring it back 443 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: into your nervous system and saying, okay, let me try 444 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 2: to be a little bit more intentional with the decisions 445 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 2: I make, and that then is going to help me 446 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 2: be more intentional with how I approach paying off this debt. 447 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: That's really good and it's so funny you mentioned that 448 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: because I really think about this conversation that I have too, 449 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: because you mentioned the side of women and how we think, 450 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: and my fiance has this more different mindset whereas we 451 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: can always make more money, and I'm like, but I 452 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: don't think we can. I'm not going to ever think 453 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: that way. Money's not it doesn't grow on trees. I 454 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: learned that my whole life growing up. It doesn't come 455 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: out of nowhere. And it's not that he's not even 456 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: reckless with money. It's just more that he is really 457 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: much more intentional about also enjoying our life and being 458 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: happy while also doing the things that we need to 459 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: do and striking that balance that you're talking about of 460 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: intention and something that I've found that really works, especially 461 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to purchases, because I'm also trying to 462 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: not just buy a bunch of stuff. I don't like 463 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: to have a lot of stuff. And I always sit 464 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: there for a few days if it's a big purchase 465 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: that I'm about to make, me big purchase over one 466 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: hundred dollars, right, like an a lot of things that 467 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: cost almost one hundred dollars by themselves these days, but 468 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: all over one hundred dollars, And I look at it 469 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: and I say, do I love this? Is it going 470 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: to just make me the happiest person in the world 471 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: to own whatever I'm about to buy? And if I 472 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: can't confidently say yes, I love this, this is everything 473 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 1: that I need, I'm going to think about it. If 474 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: I leave and I don't buy it, then I won't 475 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: get it. If I do not feel so much overlapping 476 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,239 Speaker 1: joy over this one thing, I won't get it. And 477 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: that's what you're talking about with that pause. 478 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's such a beautiful example. And you bring up 479 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: your your fiance, and this is where money gets really 480 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: tricky with relationships, because we tend to choose the person 481 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: who has a different money personality than we have, and 482 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: also that person has grown up with their own belief 483 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 2: systems around money and their own experiences, and so you 484 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 2: put that on top of us individually having really no 485 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 2: idea what our own relationship is around money, and you're 486 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: trying to bridge two people coming together, and it usually 487 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: is this is where arguments come up because you don't 488 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: even necessarily understand why you might be anxious or why 489 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 2: you might get in arguments about money, and your partner 490 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily know either, right, and so you're just like 491 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 2: to force this classing into each other and it's really learning, Okay, 492 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 2: what are your strengths, what are my strengths? And how 493 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: do we move just half an inch inward towards each 494 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 2: other knowing that your strengths are going to continue to 495 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: be yours and mine are going to continue to be mine. 496 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 2: And we're going to obviously have differences around this thing, 497 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: but let's see if we can do it in a 498 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: way that doesn't ignite one or both of our sort 499 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: of nervous system reactions all the time. 500 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: Yes, And that's why I'm such a listen. I'm a 501 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: big person who I was single for a significant amount 502 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: of time and dating and going through the whole thing, 503 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: and I firmly believe in bringing up financial conversations very 504 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: early on in relationships. If this is somebody that you're 505 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: considering dating, you better at least understand who they are 506 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: with money and what they think about money, and what 507 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: do they like to save, do they not like to save? 508 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: Just what is their whole as we talk about it, 509 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: relationship with money. And I'm such a huge believer in 510 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: that I acted out in that believe. I'm pretty sure 511 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: my fiance we were like three or four days and 512 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, so let's talk about this really quick. What 513 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: am I getting into here? What's so funny is he 514 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: already knew me pretty well at that point to be like, 515 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: I anticipated you to have these very bold conversations early on, 516 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: and I really am so happy that I did that, 517 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: and I just I wish more people would have those 518 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: conversations very early. I think it would save people a 519 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: lot of this grief and these stress that they enter into. 520 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: And I think too, if you can come at it 521 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: with a sense of curiosity and not blame, that is 522 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 2: the best way in opening these conversations. So really trying 523 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 2: to understand, ask questions, Ask open ended questions, and let 524 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: the person respond and don't say something like I wouldn't 525 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 2: do it that way. Learn about how they interact with money, 526 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 2: learn about what makes them nervous or anxious around money, 527 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: learn about their childhood around money, like all of this 528 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: is really important information. But if we come at the 529 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 2: place where we start judging and passing blame, which most 530 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: of us do, then we get into the real sort 531 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: of danger area around this. So I say, just start 532 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: with questions and just if you have to sow your 533 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: mouth shut, just go the h okay, that's interesting, right, 534 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: and just keep it as information that going forward without 535 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 2: replying something negative. 536 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's how we should approach most conversations, right. 537 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: If you're having a hard conversation, it should be you're 538 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: listening with the intent to listen, not to respond, and 539 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: I know we're all guilty of that. It's hard not 540 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: to because we want to. I don't know if you're 541 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: like me, but I want to help them, Like I 542 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: can help with that. I know what we can do, 543 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: and I very much didn't. And I was proud of 544 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: myself in this situation. I was like, Okay, yeah, and 545 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking my mind, I can work with that. 546 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: This is stuff that like, we clearly are similar in 547 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but it also reminds me of 548 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: I see a lot of people talk about how they 549 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: either grow up with SODA's and apps family, or they 550 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: grew up with a water only family. This is also 551 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: a topic of conversation. 552 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 2: That's a great way to open up the conversation. 553 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, were you getting only waters or did you also 554 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: experience a lot of joy around the dinner table when 555 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: you go on to eat with every food item you 556 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: could possibly have. It's a very easy way to start 557 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: having that conversation. I actually love it. It's funny to 558 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: see the differences of people through that. 559 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: That is great. I love that and any questions like that, right, 560 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: if we can just be if we can laugh about it, 561 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: if we can have fun with it, especially when you're 562 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: dating somebody that just takes the person off from immediately 563 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 2: like feeling defensive, maybe about having to justify something. And 564 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: if the other person is in debt or has student 565 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: loan debt or whatever it might be, or business failed 566 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 2: or something like that, they already feel bad enough. I 567 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: guarantee you about it. So yeah, I love that. Come 568 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: with fun, come with compassion, and it will change how 569 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: you interact. 570 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: We talk about money, but money's another one of those 571 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: like really which is so interesting to me. Another thing, 572 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: especially as women, we've been told not to talk about money. 573 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: Don't talk about your finances, don't talk about what this is, 574 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: don't talk about how much you make. Don't you dare 575 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: find out what anybody else makes. There's this very kind 576 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: of hard conversation about not talking about money, and I 577 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: have liked to be a little devil on the shoulder 578 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: with that one and not done that. I very much 579 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: like to talk about money. So I'm curious your thoughts 580 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: on this because I think it's important. That's why we're 581 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: having this whole episode. 582 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: I think it's really important. Like I wish when we 583 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: went out with our girlfriends we would talk about not 584 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 2: just like getting the raises and scoring the big deals, 585 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: but also talk about oof, I spent way too much 586 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: last month, or oh I'm paying off that last bit 587 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 2: of debt, or oh whatever it might be like, talk 588 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 2: about the things that feel shameful, maybe the things that 589 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: we never say out loud, but open them up as 590 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,479 Speaker 2: conversations because I think that it helps the other person 591 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 2: as much as I know that it helps you. And 592 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: we can bring this this language around talking about money, 593 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 2: maybe we can change the dynamic, and we can change 594 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: how we ternalize it, just from the act of being 595 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 2: able to talk about these topics that feel very taboo, 596 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: especially around money. 597 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: Very much so. And again, I don't want it to 598 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: be taboo anymore. If you're listening to this, I hope 599 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: you start having these conversations with girlfriends at dinner or 600 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: you're just talking about it a little bit more here 601 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: and there, maybe not to like the cashier at Kroger, but. 602 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: You know, that could be like a really good conversation. 603 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: You never know, Dang, I. 604 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: Can't believe my hunter for me that could open up. 605 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: Grocers are intensive right now. So you also talk a 606 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: lot about how people feel shame around money, and that's 607 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: really not how it's supposed to be, but feeling that 608 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: way makes them feel stuck, and the stuckness is what 609 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: gets a lot of people caught when it comes to 610 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: finances and moving forward. We discussed that how to do 611 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: something about where you're feeling right now. But I'm so 612 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: curious about this stuck face that a lot of people 613 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: get in because cycles love to repeat themselves, and if 614 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: we can avoid that would be awesome for a lot 615 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: of people. 616 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 2: I think she is the most prevalent emotion around money 617 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 2: that people feel like it's just built in almost We 618 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: live in a very scarcity driven society, so it's hard 619 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 2: to escape it. Even you turn on the TV and 620 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 2: watch the commercials, and if you watch it from like 621 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: a different lens, you'll notice how many times money has 622 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 2: talked about, and how many times it's talked about in 623 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 2: the context of you're not where you should be, or 624 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: you're behind, or just something like that. Right, You're just 625 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 2: constantly hearing these messages over and over again. And I 626 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 2: think what's interesting about shame is it could be something 627 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 2: tiny that maybe caused a sense of shame, or could 628 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: be something big, and so we all have a different 629 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 2: definition or a different experience I should say around shame, 630 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: but we all internalize it and it creates a stuckness 631 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: because when we're in a pattern of feeling shameful about 632 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 2: whatever it might be, it doesn't tell our nervous system. 633 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: It actually tells our nervous system you can't be trusted 634 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 2: around money. And when you feel like you can't be 635 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: trusted about around money, you're not going to make decisions 636 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: that are in your best interest, or usually you don't 637 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: make any decision at all because you just get in 638 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 2: this freeze place where it's if I just don't do anything, 639 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 2: maybe that will make me feel better, and so it 640 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 2: doesn't spoiler alert. And so this stuckness is really getting 641 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 2: to what is it? Why am I stuck? 642 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. 643 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 2: I keep using the debt example, but it's the most 644 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 2: prevalent example. Maybe it's I'm in some debt, whether I 645 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 2: have a student loan debt or whatever it might be, 646 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 2: and I feel stuck. I make some payments, I get ahead, 647 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 2: and then there's more interest and like I just can't 648 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 2: get ahead. So it's really thinking about, Okay, what does 649 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 2: it go back to this? What is in my control? 650 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: What is that in my control? Is there any way 651 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 2: I could find like an extra twenty bucks a month. Yeah, okay, 652 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 2: maybe I could do that. Okay, maybe that twenty extra 653 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: buck is like the springboard to start paying more of 654 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: that debt off. And then maybe that thinking about you 655 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 2: know what I could do that. Maybe then that tells 656 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: my nervous system, ooh there's other things I could do. 657 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: Oh I could do this and this, and oh oh 658 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 2: I can make this decision instead of that decision. And 659 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: maybe I have drinks at home and I only have 660 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 2: one drink out with my friends or whatever it might be, 661 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 2: and you start to see opportunities. So when you're in 662 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 2: the place of shame, you're just in a shutdown mode 663 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 2: and you just it's not that you don't have the skills, 664 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 2: it's not that you're not smart, it's not any of 665 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 2: those things. It's just your body is wired to keep 666 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 2: you in that place because we're still like that way back. 667 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 2: We're still like the people where we're trying to outrun 668 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 2: the tigers. Our bodies still feel that same way, and 669 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 2: so start thinking about what is a tiny little something 670 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 2: I can do, tiny little thing, tiny little step. If 671 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: we're in five thousand dollars a debt going to pay 672 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,479 Speaker 2: it all off tomorrow, But could I pay off ten 673 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 2: dollars this month? Maybe that's a tiny step. And those 674 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: tiny steps are going to budge you out of that 675 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 2: place of stuckness, and it's also going to help tame 676 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 2: down that shame a little bit. It doesn't all go away, 677 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: but it's just going to start moving you forward. And 678 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: when you can start to see progress, your body, your brain, 679 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 2: everything starts to respond to that happening. 680 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: And I love this so much because I do feel 681 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 1: debt is such a unfortunately important topic for so many people, 682 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: even though we don't talk about that often, just like 683 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: we don't talk about finances. A lot of people don't 684 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: talk about their debt and the things because it's associated 685 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: with shame, and nobody wants to admit that they're in 686 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: debt or that they have things. And there's so many 687 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: people that are dealing with this, and debt is that 688 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: like hot button of I feel like as soon as 689 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: you even say that word, it triggers people to something 690 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: in them, just me idiately, like shivers where they're just 691 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: I have to identify this, and I am curious your take. 692 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: I love the tools to be able to start paying 693 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: off that debt, but somebody who is in it and 694 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: they're trying to figure things out with their life, but 695 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: they also want to live because there is this also. 696 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: I know I always have this thought in my mind 697 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: where I really want to save money, but what if 698 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: I'm not alive tomorrow and I don't ever get to 699 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: spend it? And that thought creeps in my mind way 700 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: more often than it probably should. But I imagine a lot 701 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: of people who are experiencing debt also have that where they're, yes, 702 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: I want to pay it off, but what happens if 703 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm not here tomorrow and I never did anything I 704 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: wanted to do? So how do you handle that subject 705 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: where it's, yes, you need to pay this off and 706 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: take care of it, but also you want to live 707 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: life a little bit. It is such a good. 708 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 2: Question, and I will say, and I talk about this 709 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 2: in my book with extreme honesty. I am a money expert, 710 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 2: and I have been in and out of debt myself. 711 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: I have probably made every money mistake humanly possible. And 712 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 2: I feel like it's important for someone like me to 713 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 2: say that because I know all the things you should do. 714 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 2: I know all the tips the tricks, like I know 715 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 2: all of that, and yet I've still had these things happen, 716 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 2: and I've still battled with exactly what you're talking about myself. First, 717 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: just know this is a very normal human reaction. And 718 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of things to think about. 719 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 2: One is that you are on your own personal journey 720 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 2: and your own personal relationship with money, and you are 721 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 2: the one that gets to set the rules. So if 722 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 2: you're in debt, but you're like, you know what, I 723 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 2: really want to go on a vacation with my friends 724 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 2: or my partner, that's your decision to make, and you 725 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 2: can actually make that decision. You could make that decision, Yeah, 726 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: I need to go on the vacation, Like the vacation 727 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 2: is going to give me a mental health break. I'm 728 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 2: gonna have fun, it's gonna be memories, blah blah blah, 729 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 2: whatever it is. You don't have to justify that to yourself. 730 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: You just go on the vacation. Or you could decide 731 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 2: and I really want to focus on paying off the debt, right, 732 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 2: But only you get to decide what is right and 733 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 2: what is wrong. No one else gets to tell you 734 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 2: what that is. So that's the first thing I want 735 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 2: you to know. Even though all the textberoks, all the 736 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 2: experts will say, Nope, you have to stay home and 737 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 2: just pay off your debt. Right, You're human, like you said, 738 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 2: So sometimes you're gonna make the choice of I need 739 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 2: to live. This thing is really important for me, I 740 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 2: need to see the ocean, et cetera, et cetera. And 741 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 2: I want you to just go do it without shame. 742 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: If that is your choice, just pick it and go 743 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 2: and tell yourself, I'm making a choice. There's no shame 744 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: involved in this. But then also if we're looking at okay, 745 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 2: but I'm in debt, I really want to pay off debt, 746 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: we tend to limit ourselves around what we think we 747 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 2: can do. There is so much more you can do 748 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 2: than you think you can do. I tell everyone this, 749 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 2: I can find money in your bank account. I can 750 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 2: find money in absolutely anybody's bank account because I'm looking 751 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 2: for opportunities to find ways we could do something better. 752 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 2: And there are lots of things like I call my 753 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: cell phone carrier every six months and say, hey, am 754 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 2: I on the best plan? Is there a better plan? 755 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 2: And I would say probably eight out of ten times, 756 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 2: I end up saving like twenty or thirty bucks a 757 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: month because there's a better plan that comes out, or 758 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 2: shopping my car insurance or things like that that may 759 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,720 Speaker 2: seem like a chore, but these are like little extra 760 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 2: buckets of money that I can find where I don't 761 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 2: have to earn more money, but then I can reposition 762 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 2: that towards debt or towards whatever I want it to 763 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 2: go towards. There are opportunities inside your bank account right now. 764 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 2: You just need to find them. And you can find 765 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 2: them when you start letting go of the shame and 766 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 2: just saying, let me see if there's like some interesting 767 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: things I can do here. But there are other options 768 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 2: to pay off debt. Right Maybe you're gonna have to 769 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: get a personal loan. Maybe you might have to get 770 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 2: a second job just to pay off that debt. We 771 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 2: get stuck in like our own. I don't want to 772 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 2: do that. I have a friend who lost their job, 773 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 2: and I'm like, you go Trader Joe's right now and 774 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 2: get like probably a really good paying job to bring 775 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: in some man. Oh, I don't know that. What does 776 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 2: that say about me? And I've got degrees, and I'm like, 777 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 2: what choice do you want to make? Like you have options, 778 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 2: you have things in your control So that's the second 779 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 2: part of this, right, is what do I want and 780 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 2: broadening the vision to go, oh, there are actually some 781 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 2: things I can do right, and it's actually maybe not 782 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,720 Speaker 2: that hard. Like I can actually do a few things. 783 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,919 Speaker 2: I love to bake cupcakes, and so I bake cupcakes, 784 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 2: and everybody hires me for like their parties and things. 785 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 2: It's an extra fifty bucks every time somebody buys a 786 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 2: dozen of cupcakes. I can take that money and I 787 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 2: can put it towards something else. So those are just 788 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 2: a couple of things. I wish there was like a 789 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 2: magic answer, but those are just a couple of things 790 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 2: to think about. But I really want you to know 791 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 2: like you have ultimate choice in what you decide. Yeah, 792 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 2: I want you to be human too, and I also 793 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 2: want you to pay off debt. And you don't have 794 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 2: to do the two things all at once, Like you 795 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 2: can pick and choose, but pick and choose without that 796 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:06,760 Speaker 2: sense of shame. 797 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: I know you said there's no magic answer, but I 798 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: really liked your answer. I thought it was great, and 799 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: I gave us the ability to have both because that 800 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: is the human experience right there. There is not a 801 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: single person in this world who doesn't want to not 802 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: pay off their debt, who doesn't want to save money, 803 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: who would also like to go on vacations, who would 804 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 1: also like to do the things that they allow them 805 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: to live their life. There's not a single person who 806 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: would not disagree with any of those things. And so 807 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: to really start to understand that relationship that we have 808 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: with life is what you're doing to help people truly 809 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: get a better way of living with their finances. And 810 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: I think that's so cool. So magic answer to me. 811 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: I know it's not the actual magic answer, and we 812 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: can't just like any boppityboo and debt is gone. That 813 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: would be great, but I loved your answer. I thought 814 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: it was awesome, So thank you. I do love to 815 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: end the podcast with a piece of advice or a 816 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: piece of motivation or inspiration or just something maybe we 817 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: didn't talk about where you it feels really heavy for 818 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: you that you were like, I need to share this information. 819 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: So it's where I just hand the platform over to 820 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: you and you're gonna take us on whatever journey you 821 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: want to end this thing. 822 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 2: Wow, we have talked about so much when it comes 823 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 2: to money. I also give you just one extra little 824 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 2: something to do a little journal prompt for the journal 825 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 2: listeners out there. This is something I love to do. 826 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 2: I end every night with this. I write myself what 827 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 2: I call a Hey shawna letter, so whatever your name is, 828 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 2: a Morgan, whatever, and I literally just get out everything 829 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 2: around money that has been stored up during the day. 830 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 2: So sometimes it's good things, sometimes it's bad things. Sometimes 831 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 2: it's me cursing at the it. Sometimes it's me can't 832 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 2: decide what I'm doing about a certain option, but I 833 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 2: just get it out of my head and get it 834 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 2: down on paper. And I would say, find something we 835 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 2: talked about lots of different tools, but find something that 836 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,359 Speaker 2: works for you, that feels like you can have some 837 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 2: sort of ease around money, because that's what I want 838 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 2: you to feel, not that it's always going to be easy, 839 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 2: but that you can sit in the messy and you 840 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 2: still have this sense of ease. 841 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: Oh that's really good. And you loved us with something 842 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: to do. I love an activity. My journal has all 843 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,760 Speaker 1: kinds of different scribbles in it. Now it'll have another 844 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: scribble in it of different things. So Shanna, thank you 845 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,720 Speaker 1: so much for your expertise and being vulnerable and sharing 846 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: parts of your story. Too, and it was just really 847 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:35,600 Speaker 1: awesome to have you on. 848 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 2: Thanks so much. 849 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: If you resonated with Shawna's story, you can connect with 850 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: her more on social media at Shauna Game or check 851 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: out her book, Unraveling Your Relationship with Money. More to 852 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: come in the next few weeks on all things love 853 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 1: and relationships. If there's anything you want me to address 854 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: under that umbrella, then dm me on Instagram at take 855 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: this personally. If this is where I leave you, I 856 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: hope you have a great week, Stay safe. Thanks for 857 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: being here with me, and I love you. Please tell 858 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,439 Speaker 1: more people that you love them. That's what this month 859 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: is actually all about, reminding people that we care, we're there, 860 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: and hey, I love you.