Speaker 1: All right, who do we get here? We got this pain? Lindsay, No,
Speaker 1: it's not the famous pain. Lindsay, it's not.
Speaker 2: Actually it's his doppelganger.
Speaker 1: What do you do on the show?
Speaker 3: Nothing, I just you know, I'll let you guys do
Speaker 3: all the work and I just take the credit for it,
Speaker 3: you know, preferred method, the Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Way to the show. Yeah, welcome to the bonus the
Speaker 1: show within the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the round table, except for it's square. It's well rectangle.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, true, they can see it. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: was bad at you can't geometry?
Speaker 2: Right? Is that geometry? It is?
Speaker 3: I think it's okay. Yeah, Dylan doesn't know for sure.
Speaker 1: Math.
Speaker 3: One thing Dylan's definitely bad at in terms of math
Speaker 3: is adding up helium particles.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, turns out there's a lot of them.
Speaker 3: It turns out you need ten x what you thought
Speaker 3: you needed.
Speaker 1: We start to fill it up.
Speaker 2: Is it going in there?
Speaker 1: It's filling, It's looking great. I'm getting really excited. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my confidence up percent. This is totally gonna work alright,
Speaker 1: really quick. Then all of a sudden, sh the helium
Speaker 1: tank just fizzles out.
Speaker 3: Didn't think like the whole time that you were driving
Speaker 3: that the car was gonna blow up because of these
Speaker 3: big ass yeah helium tanks.
Speaker 1: Driving through the mountains in Arizona with the big ass
Speaker 1: helium tank in the back just bouncing around. I cracked
Speaker 1: the windows though, So I like how the guy is.
Speaker 1: The guy was like, you don't know anything about this,
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna help you strap this down or anything.
Speaker 1: You just throw it. We'll just throw it in there,
Speaker 1: let it roll around. It's like, you're an American, you
Speaker 1: want to buy some helium? You got it.
Speaker 3: He's like, you've never done this before, right, And you're
Speaker 3: like yet correct.
Speaker 2: He's like cool, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Give him some empty fucking canisters at helium then, and
Speaker 3: we're flows on Sundays, So fuck.
Speaker 1: Off, I'm convincing what happened? Yeah, so what are we
Speaker 1: doing today? Well? We should We kind of need to
Speaker 1: figure that out. We need to figure out what this
Speaker 1: show is going to be about. And when better time
Speaker 1: to figure it out than right now? That's true. I
Speaker 1: think we should do it on UFOs.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, what if we like talked about UFOs as
Speaker 3: an after show of the UFO podcast.
Speaker 1: Just a coincidence?
Speaker 2: Smart?
Speaker 1: I dig that? Have you ever seen an alien?
Speaker 2: No, I wish have you seen an alien?
Speaker 1: Maybe I am an alien? Maybe we're all alien?
Speaker 3: Pain?
Speaker 1: You know, pain is an alien.
Speaker 3: I'd never said that I wasn't an alien. I didn't
Speaker 3: say that I was either, but I didn't say it wasn't.
Speaker 1: We'll find out.
Speaker 3: Also, what if I was an alien? I just didn't
Speaker 3: know it? What if we were all aliens and we
Speaker 3: didn't know.
Speaker 1: It's what I'm saying, it's probably the case.
Speaker 2: Bring the weed out. Let's let's let's talk about this.
Speaker 3: Maybe we talk about I feel like if you listen
Speaker 3: to this podcast asked, then you know, episode one through
Speaker 3: eight we go through different stories with interviews and accounts
Speaker 3: from people that we all met and talked to in
Speaker 3: real life. Maybe we just expand on some of those
Speaker 3: stories and talk about I don't know, maybe even some
Speaker 3: of the theories we had that didn't make it into
Speaker 3: the end of the story, or a little side note
Speaker 3: that might be kind of interesting, you know, yeah, something, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'll start I think, uh, I think his healing take
Speaker 1: with was seeking Yeah that episode five six or something?
Speaker 3: Ye?
Speaker 1: Yeah six.
Speaker 3: The funny part about that is is you were I mean,
Speaker 3: it was not for the show. You were very, very
Speaker 3: disappointed in yourself. You were upset. I thought it was hilarious,
Speaker 3: and I did feel bad for you, and I didn't
Speaker 3: laugh in your face, but I was like, this is
Speaker 3: so fucking funny.
Speaker 1: You bought me a drink at the bar later, and
Speaker 1: I did helped the lot, I'll say.
Speaker 3: And you you just thought this was over, you know,
Speaker 3: you had you had failed, and I mean you did
Speaker 3: fail on the little part of it, but I was like, no,
Speaker 3: this was like, this was an experiment.
Speaker 2: I think that we still use this.
Speaker 3: It's actually interesting to me that we put all this time, money,
Speaker 3: and effort into trying to create a hoax and we
Speaker 3: did fail. Now, I think on a round two we
Speaker 3: would undoubtedly put something in the sky that looks like
Speaker 3: a UFO, absolutely.
Speaker 2: But it took a It was a trial and error.
Speaker 3: We're in the right spot with the right materials, and
Speaker 3: all kind of weird shit went into it, and we
Speaker 3: couldn't get the fucker off the ground. You know. I
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, well, actually that is the story that
Speaker 3: we're putting in there because I think it actually speaks
Speaker 3: to you know, like you were saying, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: when you see something weird in the sky. Odds are
Speaker 3: it is either some sort of optical illusion or somebody
Speaker 3: you know, went through a lot of effort to put
Speaker 3: it up there to look like that, or maybe it's
Speaker 3: actually something, you know, some sort of anomaly, some sort
Speaker 3: of unknown craft. I think, you know, despite our you know,
Speaker 3: failed efforts at getting a UFO in the sky, I
Speaker 3: think we learned the lesson of, hey, maybe some of
Speaker 3: those things you're seeing in the sky are actually weird totally.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was my big takeaway. You know. It's like,
Speaker 1: as sad as it was to not get it off
Speaker 1: the ground, I really, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: in hindsight, I'm kind of glad we didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: because it taught that better lesson, which is like, there
Speaker 1: is this huge level of effort that goes into making
Speaker 1: these things and making them really work, and we couldn't
Speaker 1: do it. You know, we tried. I tried my damnedest,
Speaker 1: I really did. Couldn't do it. And for me, you
Speaker 1: know that that adds some level of credence to a
Speaker 1: lot of these claims of things that float around. You know,
Speaker 1: you see them all the time, and I think it
Speaker 1: just it takes away a little bit of people's ability
Speaker 1: to be able to say like, no, that's man made,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's hard. It's really hard to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's really two camps that I've seen on the
Speaker 1: Internet where it's like, you either believe I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: there's gray area, but you you believe in everything that
Speaker 1: you see. Every video no matter how shitty is a UFO,
Speaker 1: or you don't believe in every video no matter how convincing,
Speaker 1: is not a UFO, and it can't be a UFO.
Speaker 3: I think we'd like, I don't think anyone should blindly
Speaker 3: believe anything. I think that that is a problematic, especially
Speaker 3: if you're trying to solve something. If you're trying to
Speaker 3: figure something out, you cannot just believe whatever is the
Speaker 3: most comfortable for you to believe. That's not a very
Speaker 3: scientific approach to something that has a lot of questions. Still,
Speaker 3: so I think that, you know, for high strange I
Speaker 3: try to stay as objective as possible and kind of test,
Speaker 3: you know, like bringing in someone like Mick West, who
Speaker 3: is known on the Internet as being someone who is
Speaker 3: a major debunker of claims, and from what I can tell,
Speaker 3: most of the time he's right. You know, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of things on the Internet that look like something
Speaker 3: and it turns out to be nothing, So you can't
Speaker 3: just blindly believe everything you see. But there are some
Speaker 3: stories that are harder to debunk and have never been debunked,
Speaker 3: and that was kind of my focus on when it
Speaker 3: came to picking the stories and the cases to cover
Speaker 3: in the series. I wanted to focus on those the
Speaker 3: most because those are the ones that still have a
Speaker 3: lot of questions to them and maybe if we just
Speaker 3: attempt to find some answers to those, we'll learn more
Speaker 3: about it in that process. So let's just start with
Speaker 3: episode one, right, which was kind of an introduction to
Speaker 3: the series, but we touched on Roswell for a second,
Speaker 3: and to be honest, I always thought Roswell was totally
Speaker 3: just some bullshit, you know, because that's the one you
Speaker 3: hear all the time, you know, Roswell, New Mexico, And like,
Speaker 3: you know, for years people have thought that a spaceship
Speaker 3: crashed there, but they've never.
Speaker 2: Been able to prove it.
Speaker 3: So I was like, you know, this is just one
Speaker 3: of those urban legends at this point. But as I
Speaker 3: went through all the information, I realized that undoubtedly something
Speaker 3: had to have happened because of the response that was there.
Speaker 3: There's no way that this flimsy, tiny weather balloon that
Speaker 3: looks like I mean tinfoil fell in the middle of
Speaker 3: the desert and caused all this uproar that wouldn't make
Speaker 3: any sense. No one would even know about it. Something
Speaker 3: had to have happened to spark the attention. Now, maybe
Speaker 3: it went you know, the game of telephone went too
Speaker 3: far over the years, and it wasn't as crazy as
Speaker 3: we thought. But there's no way that it was just
Speaker 3: this flimsy, tinfoil looking weather balloon, and then that's it.
Speaker 3: If it was that clear cut, I wouldn't be talking
Speaker 3: about it right now. And so to me that was interesting.
Speaker 3: Just going back, you'd have to say that all these
Speaker 3: people are lying. So many people, and I bet some
Speaker 3: of them are lying, but power and numbers. You get
Speaker 3: enough people saying something, it makes you at least want
Speaker 3: to listen and dissect it some more and consider it
Speaker 3: as an option. I mean, what was your take on
Speaker 3: the Roswell incident.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was kind of the same way I
Speaker 1: guess I was. I leaned towards not believing it. I
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't think it was complete bullshit like growing up,
Speaker 1: but I was like, you know, there's a big chance
Speaker 1: that never happened and that was not real or anything
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, like you said, which happened with
Speaker 1: a lot of the stories. Researching these stories for this show,
Speaker 1: there was so many times where I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: the further I dive into this, the more I believe it,
Speaker 1: the more like circumstantial evidence adds up that I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: this hold on. There's affidavits of people who were there.
Speaker 1: There's a rancher that's all part of the crash. Then
Speaker 1: there's another person like I think a mile or two
Speaker 1: away that had some in his in his yard or whatever.
Speaker 1: And it's the more you read about you're like, well,
Speaker 1: wait a minute. The Army put out a broadcast saying
Speaker 1: that they recovered a flying disc, and it's like, why
Speaker 1: would they do that if? Is that misinformation? And then
Speaker 1: that goes too far into conspiracy world where it's like,
Speaker 1: that's a crazier conspiracy to me than the Roswell crash
Speaker 1: and it being.
Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, the original broadcast that they
Speaker 3: recovered a flying disc either, that was just a mistake
Speaker 3: in terms of how they described it, just an innocent like,
Speaker 3: why'd you say disc? And then it became some huge
Speaker 3: thing after that or it was the truth. I don't
Speaker 3: think that was I think it was nothing deeper than that.
Speaker 3: But you'd you'd you'd want to think if the military
Speaker 3: is putting out a statement, you know, to concerned citizens
Speaker 3: of New Mexico and beyond of this crash that happened
Speaker 3: in the desert, that they would get the wording right
Speaker 3: because a disc is extremely different than a tenfoil flimsy balloon.
Speaker 1: Right, So.
Speaker 3: I don't know, But you also make the argument that
Speaker 3: you know, somebody flubbed and you know, just used a
Speaker 3: word that maybe they shouldn't have, not thinking that it
Speaker 3: would not thinking it would cause some crazy conspiracy theories
Speaker 3: for decades after that.
Speaker 2: And it's just as simple as that.
Speaker 3: But then you'd also have to add in that all
Speaker 3: these people would follow suit and create this narrative that's
Speaker 3: all bullshit, but somehow connects to itself.
Speaker 2: This is back in when was it was it?
Speaker 1: Okay, nine, I've got some dates for you. So this
Speaker 1: happened July of nineteen forty seven, right, yeah, okayeah forty
Speaker 1: seven Okay, And then air Force was created in September
Speaker 1: of forty seven. It seems strange to me that, you know,
Speaker 1: it was all like Army I think originally, and then
Speaker 1: they're like, let's make a specialized branch. I'm sure they
Speaker 1: had a type of air force that was like the
Speaker 1: Army Air Force or whatever. Like how they have the
Speaker 1: Navy Air Force or whatever, the Air Force Navy. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not good with the military. But creating
Speaker 1: a specialized branch for the air Force the same year
Speaker 1: as Roswell seems strange to me, Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: And wasn't the guy at Area fifty one he just
Speaker 1: kept talking about nineteen forty seven and how like special
Speaker 1: that date was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, also it's nineteen forty seven. It's like
Speaker 2: today in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: If somebody's creating a hoax or going around, you know,
Speaker 3: spreading some lie that they experienced something extraterrestrial or paranormal,
Speaker 3: they're usually attention seeking people, right There are people who
Speaker 3: are trying to get your attention, and there's so many
Speaker 3: ways to do that.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: You can write a tweet, you can go on Instagram live,
Speaker 3: you can go on a talk show, you can you know,
Speaker 3: write a book all kind of shita. Then if you're
Speaker 3: living in some small town of Roswell in New Mexico,
Speaker 3: which I've been there, it's still small.
Speaker 2: It had to have been even smaller back then, way smaller.
Speaker 3: You're like yelling into a void that something crazy happened.
Speaker 3: I just don't see if you were doing that to
Speaker 3: get attention. I just don't see how they would even
Speaker 3: have got that attention back then. It would have just
Speaker 3: been very unsatisfying for someone who, you know, would be
Speaker 3: making it up for their own gratification.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to what end, you know, me to what ends?
Speaker 1: Right at the time, you know, just sad the stage
Speaker 1: in the nineteen forties, late nineteen forties, we enter World
Speaker 1: War Two in like the peak of it is like
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, nineteen forty six, you know, so you're
Speaker 1: seeing the beginning of the Great the second Great War.
Speaker 1: The whole world is changed by this. But the first time,
Speaker 1: at least an American pop culture that you start to
Speaker 1: hear these accounts of these flying discs. You know, this
Speaker 1: term flying disc came from I'm just a random pilot
Speaker 1: in America who was flying over some mountains somewhere in
Speaker 1: you know, the Midwest, and you know, made a report
Speaker 1: that he saw like a fleet of flying saucer shaped
Speaker 1: like plate shaped discs that were just flying around like
Speaker 1: in a V shape, you know, which is a weird
Speaker 1: thing for a pilot to say, especially at that time.
Speaker 1: It's really bizarre. But then you can see how something
Speaker 1: like that which might blow up in popular culture in
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, when granted, there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: really interesting things happen in nineteen forty five, at least
Speaker 1: media wise. You know, you mean, it wasn't cool in
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, You wouldn't think so.
Speaker 3: Actu's quite cooler because there's less bullshit to deal with
Speaker 3: on the Internet.
Speaker 1: Sure, it didn't exist, there was no Internet. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean you can imagine, you know, how how pop
Speaker 1: culture would take this idea of something like a flying
Speaker 1: disc and then just kind of run rampant with it.
Speaker 1: And you could see how that could spread over a
Speaker 1: year or two to where nineteen forty seven, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, the military is somebody in the military, some
Speaker 1: media rep in the middle. Arry says, we've maybe we
Speaker 1: finally saw this enigma of these flying discs that have
Speaker 1: been in our airspace during World War Two they are
Speaker 1: called the foo fighters, and pilots all over the world
Speaker 1: saw these things and they called them the flying discs
Speaker 1: foo fighters at the times, well before UFO was a term.
Speaker 1: So you can imagine that the army might get a
Speaker 1: hold of something like this and say, we've recovered one
Speaker 1: of these flying discs. Maybe we can now get to
Speaker 1: the very bottom of it.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, idea, was just touch this remote? I touched it,
Speaker 3: I breathed.
Speaker 2: I don't know which one? Oh whoa? All right, what woo?
Speaker 1: Moving around getting all excited talking about aliens.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. You have an excellent point on Roswell.
Speaker 3: I think undoubtedly that all these reports of flying discs
Speaker 3: happening in the forties and in that timeframe have over
Speaker 3: time influenced the Hollywood trope image of a UFO flying
Speaker 3: saucer and probably not probably probably definitely influenced people's accounts
Speaker 3: of seeing stuff that is odd in the sky. But
Speaker 3: I also think that it simultaneously exists with a real phenomena.
Speaker 2: They can both be true. That's the thing.
Speaker 3: I think that all these stories have influenced what people
Speaker 3: claim to see, and I would say, for probably even
Speaker 3: a majority of weird sightings, they're probably something super normal.
Speaker 3: But I think there are some that are not easily
Speaker 3: explained away that could likely be extraterrestrials or some other
Speaker 3: intelligence beyond Earth.
Speaker 2: And it's not that black and white.
Speaker 3: It's easier to look at this topic of UFOs and
Speaker 3: aliens in a very black and white sense, but I
Speaker 3: don't think it's that simple.
Speaker 2: You know, it can all be true as well.
Speaker 3: It could be true that a lot of them are fake,
Speaker 3: and it could be true that some of them are real.
Speaker 3: And if you're someone who doesn't want to believe, you're
Speaker 3: going to focus on the ones that are easily debunked.
Speaker 3: If you're someone who wants to believe, you're going to
Speaker 3: focus on the other ones. But it's like, how do
Speaker 3: we like meet in the middle and recognize that they
Speaker 3: both can coexist and that there likely is something else
Speaker 3: that we haven't been able to scientifically explain yet that
Speaker 3: we'll probably be explained at some point in human history.
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: So I really I didn't stay our lifetime.
Speaker 3: I just said human history, which I hope that's you
Speaker 3: know that we're a part of that one.
Speaker 2: But shit, it could be a long time. I have
Speaker 2: no idea.
Speaker 1: It could be. It could be tomorrow. That's what they
Speaker 1: say on Twitter. It's coming soon.
Speaker 2: You just wait. I actually know everything. I'm just parsoning
Speaker 2: it out.
Speaker 1: Oh that's right. Yeah, some insiders reached out to you recently,
Speaker 1: right they did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the men in black visit. It's hit my house.
Speaker 3: They were super cool. We had cocktails, spoke cigars and
Speaker 3: we just kind of shot the shit, right, and uh yeah,
Speaker 3: they told me everything. But they said, hey, look, don't
Speaker 3: tell them all at once. String them along a little bit, right,
Speaker 3: Tell them every day that something big is coming next,
Speaker 3: and say that until you die. Yeah, and then right
Speaker 3: before you die, say some shit and then make up
Speaker 3: the rest and then just confuse everybody.
Speaker 1: And everybody will say it was a deathbed confession, so
Speaker 1: it must be the truth.
Speaker 2: It has to be the truth.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Those always confuse me though, that the deathbed confession, Like
Speaker 3: it's that you're like last two road, I'd be like,
Speaker 3: before I take my last breath, I'm gonna fuck with
Speaker 3: y'all so hard, I'm gonna say some crazy shit.
Speaker 1: It's not a bad way to go.
Speaker 3: All Aliens and roswal You're like, Okay, what the hell, dude, Like,
Speaker 3: he's not even alive.
Speaker 2: To get a kick out of that.
Speaker 1: I was always like, when I'm old, when I'm ninety
Speaker 1: years old in hospice or whatever, if I make there,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do heroin. That was always my thing, which
Speaker 1: I don't know why what. It's like, Well, what's going
Speaker 1: to happen? You're gonna die? Who cares? Right, that's true,
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, I want to I want to try it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're like ninety years old or above and
Speaker 3: you're in your deathbed, every drug should be legal.
Speaker 2: They should.
Speaker 3: The doctors should go in there with this briefcase like
Speaker 3: out of pulp fiction and be like, what you want
Speaker 3: any of it? All of it, and they'll say, hey,
Speaker 3: this one might kill you, and they're like, that's all good.
Speaker 3: If you don't want to die yet, then maybe they
Speaker 3: shouldn't do that. But you should able to sign a
Speaker 3: waiver that says, yeah, like I want to try LSD
Speaker 3: or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I want to do LSD and heroin if I'm on
Speaker 1: my deathbed same time time.
Speaker 3: You might solve all the world's problems, but then you die,
Speaker 3: so you wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what matter?
Speaker 1: It'd be a fun last ten minutes if I make
Speaker 1: it that long.
Speaker 2: So let's go.
Speaker 3: Let's jump from episode one to episode two. Travis Walden
Speaker 3: is the entire episode pretty much.
Speaker 2: How long has it been there?
Speaker 4: Forty five years? Forty five years and three months.
Speaker 1: But some things don't change, you know what.
Speaker 4: Some things about it haven't gotten any easier at all.
Speaker 4: I wish that this had never happened. It's not been
Speaker 4: a good thing for my life, for my family in
Speaker 4: some ways, they don't even see the real me.
Speaker 3: You know, what are you all thoughts on Travis Walton.
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you guys, because you guys were
Speaker 1: both there for the interview and I was in there,
Speaker 1: so okay, just from your perspective, I mean, you guys
Speaker 1: met him that you talked to him for hours, Like
Speaker 1: what was what were your thoughts about him? Like when
Speaker 1: you met him, I mean it seemed like he was
Speaker 1: completely lying and not No I'm kidding, No, I one
Speaker 1: hundred percent believed him, like I that was one of
Speaker 1: the ones, definitely be When we were doing the research
Speaker 1: for the show and Paine was like, Hey, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: this case, this case, this case, I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know about abduction stuff. You know, I was most
Speaker 1: on the fence about not even on the fence. I
Speaker 1: was on the other side of the fence. I was like, Nah,
Speaker 1: I don't know about abductions. I don't think they're real.
Speaker 1: I don't see how anyone can believe these. After sitting
Speaker 1: there and talking to it or list recording him, I
Speaker 1: have one hundred percent believed him, Like there's no way
Speaker 1: or he's the biggest scam artist I've ever read about
Speaker 1: research anything with. He's like world record holder scammer. If
Speaker 1: that's true, What was it that really like won your
Speaker 1: mind over? What convinced you that he was telling the
Speaker 1: truth honestly, Just the way he was talking, the way
Speaker 1: he was so sincere, the way he was apprehensive about
Speaker 1: even coming to us, Like he wasn't like excited to
Speaker 1: talk to us. I don't think he. If he had
Speaker 1: the choice, I think he if he was not as
Speaker 1: nice of a person, I don't think he would have
Speaker 1: done it.
Speaker 2: He definitely didn't want to talk to us. No fact, it.
Speaker 1: Seemed like he was reliving drama one and it seemed
Speaker 1: like he didn't want to talk about it, and it
Speaker 1: just seemed like it wasn't comfortable for him, like all
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3: I mean when I read the story on the internet first,
Speaker 3: I was like, this is so batshit crazy that I
Speaker 3: want to talk to the person who's claiming this happened
Speaker 3: to them. Like I felt like, no matter what, that's
Speaker 3: going to be interesting if someone's making this totally bizarre,
Speaker 3: wild claim, you know, all these years later too, Like
Speaker 3: what's he going to say about it now?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And so that was just my you know, general interest
Speaker 3: at first, but I guess I was kind of taken
Speaker 3: aback by how serious he was about it, Like, to me,
Speaker 3: it the way that he told the story to us,
Speaker 3: the way, you know, the way he was emotionally when
Speaker 3: he was telling it, those were all signs of something
Speaker 3: that I've seen before in someone who's had, you know,
Speaker 3: reliving something that was traumatic that happened to them. So
Speaker 3: even if he did make it all up, it's like
Speaker 3: he's somehow reliving this story today telling us it like
Speaker 3: it's a memory.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's one of.
Speaker 3: Those stories where it's so out there it's almost just
Speaker 3: easy to dismiss on the surface, but there's so many
Speaker 3: different parts to it. And I've seen people online who
Speaker 3: you know, are like he's lying, blah blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 3: and like, you know, somebody said, uh, I don't know
Speaker 3: where it was that. You know, he's been proven to
Speaker 3: have lied. Uh. They actually made all this up because
Speaker 3: they were about to lose their logging contract. I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's not fucking true. It isn't I've researched this case
Speaker 3: pretty hard. That isn't true, and that's not a good
Speaker 3: enough reason two for forty plus years keep up some
Speaker 3: crazy lie. They don't even work out there anymore. They
Speaker 3: don't even do that anymore.
Speaker 1: How much were they even? I feel like they weren't
Speaker 1: even making that much money to like, it wasn't like
Speaker 1: a there's.
Speaker 3: No way a logger in nineteen seventy five in Snowflake,
Speaker 3: Arizona is making shit tons of money. I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't have the statistics, but I wouldn't even need to
Speaker 3: look like if I'm dead wrong then that would be interesting.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no way. There's no way. And also just
Speaker 1: all of them lying to the police when it got serious.
Speaker 1: That's like something I found out after the travel want
Speaker 1: an interview that was like okay, well, this back's it
Speaker 1: even more like, why would they do that? Why would
Speaker 1: they all lie about this? Five different accounts or six accounts.
Speaker 3: You're seven total if you're counting Travis. Yeah, so I've
Speaker 3: landed on this as a theory. You know, I'll never
Speaker 3: know for certain if Travis is telling the truth about
Speaker 3: what he experienced, because I wasn't there. There's nothing he
Speaker 3: can tell me to really prove it entirely, and there's
Speaker 3: nothing I can do to really disprove it at this point.
Speaker 3: But I think that if Travis is making it up,
Speaker 3: he's only making up the part where he's on the spaceship.
Speaker 2: I think that without.
Speaker 3: A doubt, all these people on the logging crew definitely
Speaker 3: saw something weird in the sky, and Travis did run
Speaker 3: out there, and then they left and came back and
Speaker 3: Travis was gone. So if he's making it up, it
Speaker 3: started right then. And then you have to think about, Okay,
Speaker 3: if he did make it up, did he just seize
Speaker 3: the opportunity? Was he like, oh man, we did see
Speaker 3: some UFO looking thing in.
Speaker 2: The sky that spooked us.
Speaker 3: Do I hide out for five days and come back
Speaker 3: with this crazy story? That's one way, but it's just
Speaker 3: hard to explain where he was, and I think that
Speaker 3: genuinely his other crew members didn't know where he was,
Speaker 3: so he had been tricking them too. And then you'd
Speaker 3: have to say, okay, well where was he His brother
Speaker 3: and his mother were genuinely looking for him, so were
Speaker 3: they in on it too?
Speaker 1: Where did he hide for five days? Like what happened?
Speaker 3: Or did something strike him and he went into some
Speaker 3: comba state and then just came too, Like that would
Speaker 3: make more sense than him just saying cool, they're gone,
Speaker 3: All right, what's my story? I'm going to live off
Speaker 3: the land for five days and then come back with
Speaker 3: this crazy story?
Speaker 2: What for? What? Why?
Speaker 1: Yeah? It's not even like media was that big back then,
Speaker 1: Like there wasn't like a CNN that he could go on,
Speaker 1: you know at that time, right, like there wasn't this
Speaker 1: huge thing where he's like, Oh, I'm gonna make it big,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be on all the shows and we had right,
Speaker 1: was he gonna be on Johnny Carson? Like no?
Speaker 2: What? No?
Speaker 1: I would be interested to see, knowing the internet this
Speaker 1: has to exist somewhere, but I'd be interested to see
Speaker 1: sort of a breakdown of when he started telling the
Speaker 1: different aspects of his story on a timeline, like I'd
Speaker 1: like to see when if his story has evolved over
Speaker 1: the years, or if he's told the same story the
Speaker 1: same way for what fifty odd years, Like I'm really
Speaker 1: interested if if his story is made up in response
Speaker 1: to people pushing back on him, or if even like
Speaker 1: his first accounts to the police, told the entire story
Speaker 1: as he tells it today. You know, I think that
Speaker 1: would bring a lot of credence to his his accounts.
Speaker 1: For myself anyway, I don't think he's really changed any
Speaker 1: details throughout the years.
Speaker 3: Not really nothing major where you know you'd be caught
Speaker 3: in some lie. If anything, I think certain parts have
Speaker 3: become more descriptive. Yeah I was gonna say that, which
Speaker 3: I mean, he could be embellishing those parts, and you know,
Speaker 3: he's just adding to the story where it's like the
Speaker 3: classic grandpa talking about walking uphill both ways to school
Speaker 3: in the snow, and there's always a new detail.
Speaker 2: You're like, bullshit, or how big was that fish?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: Was it this big? Or was it this big?
Speaker 3: It's like there could be some of that going on,
Speaker 3: but doesn't take away the fact the basic elements of
Speaker 3: the story that he was on some spaceship.
Speaker 2: That's like that part's never changed.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Honestly, what I noticed because after we recorded him,
Speaker 1: I listened to the tape and then I went back
Speaker 1: to the times he said it before. For that exact reason,
Speaker 1: I was like, let me see if he changed his story,
Speaker 1: you know, coming from the true crime world's what we
Speaker 1: would do. We'd listen to how did you tell it
Speaker 1: to dateline? And then how are you telling it to us?
Speaker 1: And is there any weirdness with your story right now?
Speaker 1: Is there something you're caught you in that lie? There
Speaker 1: was nothing he told. Did he talk to Barbara Walters?
Speaker 1: I don't remember now, but he told somebody in the
Speaker 1: nineties a couple more details. I'm like, oh, dang, he
Speaker 1: didn't even like he didn't even say that to us,
Speaker 1: But like.
Speaker 3: There wasn't an outlet like you'd have now to tell
Speaker 3: that story, like immediately in seventy five, in the middle
Speaker 3: of nowhere Arizona.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: One of my thoughts was if he made it up,
Speaker 3: I just think that's such a big commitment that would
Speaker 3: be your life.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: He had to commit when he was in his early
Speaker 3: twenties that I'm going to go the rest of my
Speaker 3: life with this as my identity. And maybe you know,
Speaker 3: he did make it up and he regretted doing that
Speaker 3: in his thirties, but had to stick with it because
Speaker 3: he didn't want to be, you know, labeled a liar.
Speaker 3: But man, what a big commitment. And one more thing
Speaker 3: about this story is that there's not a lot of
Speaker 3: these stories, right. There's not a lot of cases of
Speaker 3: people of a mass sighting of different people who were
Speaker 3: not that close of what seems to be a real
Speaker 3: UFO in the sky and then someone being missing for
Speaker 3: a period of time with a very bizarre story at
Speaker 3: the end. Now there's other cases where a lot of
Speaker 3: people saw something, but like there's probably like five cases
Speaker 3: total where it's like this locked up, So it's it's
Speaker 3: an anomaly either way. It's interesting because of those elements.
Speaker 3: If Travis just came out of the woods himself and
Speaker 3: said this story, I'd have less reason to believe him.
Speaker 2: It's because of.
Speaker 3: All of his coworkers who were there who claim to
Speaker 3: see the same thing, who were then under suspicion for murder,
Speaker 3: That to me is gives credence to it.
Speaker 2: So if he was tricking anyone, he was tricking them first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And going off of that, started reading a book.
Speaker 1: I think it's by Robert Mack. It might be John Mack,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, but it's a book all about abductions.
Speaker 1: And once I started believing Travis's story and like, hey,
Speaker 1: this I think he was abducted, not saying it's aliens,
Speaker 1: not saying it's I don't know what it was, but like,
Speaker 1: maybe it's people that abducted him. Maybe it is some
Speaker 1: secret government thing that abducted him and did experiments too deep.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was that. But then I started
Speaker 1: looking at all these other abduction cases where it was
Speaker 1: just a single person doing the same thing and like
Speaker 1: the in hypnosis with regressive therapy and having very similar
Speaker 1: things happen and seeing similar beings. And the author of
Speaker 1: that book, when I started reading it, he kind of
Speaker 1: goes into like I'm talking to people who have never
Speaker 1: talked to each other, never put their story out there,
Speaker 1: like it's not public knowledge, and they're saying the same thing.
Speaker 1: They're they're having the same kind of encounters. So either
Speaker 1: this is like a sleep paralysis type thing where it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we all see the same thing, or like when people
Speaker 1: trip on DMT. They all see the machine elves or
Speaker 1: whatever they are, and it's like something just locked deep
Speaker 1: in our brain that like gets unlocked at this point.
Speaker 1: But like it is really weird to be a strange
Speaker 1: coincidence if all these people saw similar beings and there's
Speaker 1: like it's like narrowed down to like a few different
Speaker 1: types of beings and then they do kind of the
Speaker 1: same thing. It's like these weird medical things with like
Speaker 1: experimentations with tools we've never seen before, but like kind
Speaker 1: of a focus on reproductive stuff. I know. It's it's
Speaker 1: strange when you add it all up.
Speaker 3: Even if he had some like if he had some
Speaker 3: hypnosis like episode out there, not hypnosis, if he had
Speaker 3: some sort of paralysis episode out there, the fuche state,
Speaker 3: the fugue state, right then he would have had to
Speaker 3: stumble far enough out of sight where when they pretty
Speaker 3: much very quickly came back to look for him and
Speaker 3: he wasn't there, and then somehow not kill himself in
Speaker 3: all those days in the woods, and then come too
Speaker 3: with the story that he believes that just is a
Speaker 3: very big pill to swallow.
Speaker 2: If you're taking like that would be.
Speaker 3: That would be crazier to me, that could be what happened,
Speaker 3: But that is fucking crazy, like seriously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a crazy story. You know. You can go down this
Speaker 1: rabbit hole of like what are the aliens? What's their
Speaker 1: purpose here? Or people seeing the same aliens or they
Speaker 1: seeing different aliens from different galaxies.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's once this idea of like these sci fi elements
Speaker 1: or aliens gets into the like public zeitgeist, and everybody
Speaker 1: starts to think about it, everybody starts to build on them.
Speaker 1: And you could argue that a lot of these like
Speaker 1: abduction cases, even Travis Waltens is maybe he saw some
Speaker 1: sci fi film, you know, and he saw something like that.
Speaker 1: He saw some aliens and an old the daylier stood
Speaker 1: still in like nineteen fifties or whatever, and he just
Speaker 1: formulates a story around it and then just sticks to it.
Speaker 1: And he tells it once and it's out there, it's
Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist, and he has to stick to it forever,
Speaker 1: and he can embellish it as the years go on,
Speaker 1: but he knows that it becomes more and more it
Speaker 1: becomes harder to disprove his story. The longer he tells it,
Speaker 1: and because he's been telling it for so long, it's
Speaker 1: hard to disprove. You know, he's made it bulletproof, he's
Speaker 1: built the walls around it, he's made it perfect. And
Speaker 1: there's always in this subject, there's always two sides, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're always gonna have evidence for either you're gonna
Speaker 1: have evidence that he says this or she says that,
Speaker 1: But then also somebody on the other side that's always
Speaker 1: going to be able to disprove whatever they say. And
Speaker 1: that's the hardest thing about researching this is like is
Speaker 1: the evidence you have good? Is it made up by
Speaker 1: somebody on the internet? Is it usable? Can you build
Speaker 1: on it? And you just never really truly know. I mean,
Speaker 1: no matter how much information you have, you can never
Speaker 1: really know if it's the truth.
Speaker 3: One of the problems I think is people instinctually need
Speaker 3: some sort of deeper reason behind everything. You know, they
Speaker 3: start asking the questions like you just posed, why are
Speaker 3: they here, what are they doing? What do they want
Speaker 3: from us? And I think that's such a naive take.
Speaker 3: I think that you're overlooking all the things that are important.
Speaker 3: If we're talking about some advanced intelligence, then that has
Speaker 3: to be accounted for.
Speaker 2: When you're thinking about it, It's like if we're.
Speaker 3: If we're in elementary school and there's twenty kids out
Speaker 3: there playing on the playground, and nineteen of them are
Speaker 3: super big for their age, and could you know, beat
Speaker 3: any of the other kid's asses, and there was one
Speaker 3: smaller kid who hadn't had his growth spurt yet.
Speaker 2: They're not going to all just pick on that kid.
Speaker 3: So like, I feel like the idea of the fear
Speaker 3: of them wanting to do something to us, I think
Speaker 3: is a little bit I know, I guess unwarranted.
Speaker 2: And I also think that it's how do I say this?
Speaker 3: Like, I think that we want there to be some
Speaker 3: special reason because we're so used to being at the
Speaker 3: top of the food chain. We need there to be
Speaker 3: some you know, romantic reason as to why they're here,
Speaker 3: as if we're going to just join forces and take
Speaker 3: over the universe together. I think that if you're coming
Speaker 3: from a place that's so far away we can't see
Speaker 3: it or close by, and we can't see it in
Speaker 3: crafts that we can't mimic what they do, then you
Speaker 3: already won. It's like, you know, the car has been
Speaker 3: around for how long like that was like a nineteen
Speaker 3: hundred thing, like it really became a thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, we're way so far behind that that.
Speaker 3: It's just almost it's silly to think that they would
Speaker 3: want anything from us.
Speaker 1: What would they want? What would we have to offer water?
Speaker 3: I mean, like, for real, I think that you gotta
Speaker 3: and I don't know anything. But it's such a small
Speaker 3: minded take to feel like if there's some advanced civilization
Speaker 3: out there that they owe us anything, or that they
Speaker 3: would be interested in us to the point where we're
Speaker 3: going to sit down and have tea and talk about something.
Speaker 3: They're like, look, we already know all that shit. We
Speaker 3: know that you guys don't know that shit yet we're
Speaker 3: not even going to talk about it because you won't
Speaker 3: even believe us. And if we showed ourselves to the world,
Speaker 3: we already know that you guys would probably end up
Speaker 3: killing yourselves because it would just dismantle a lot of
Speaker 3: our fundamental beliefs.
Speaker 2: If they're that advanced, they would.
Speaker 3: Know that, they would Yeah, we would know that if
Speaker 3: it was the other way around, right, absolutely, So it's
Speaker 3: I think that's what it is. And and shit, they
Speaker 3: may have seen that before. They may have you know,
Speaker 3: gone to the planet. Oh, yeah, don't touch that. It's
Speaker 3: like the same thing of like there being some you know,
Speaker 3: part of a national park where it's like, don't go
Speaker 3: in there, don't touch those plants. You know, this is
Speaker 3: like a sacred you know, don't mess up their environment
Speaker 3: in the swamp.
Speaker 2: It's, you know, same idea.
Speaker 3: It's like if you do, will be a ripple effect
Speaker 3: and the animals are gonna die.
Speaker 2: Right, It's like a what's the word for.
Speaker 1: That, the the like a quarantine.
Speaker 2: No, Like it's like sacred.
Speaker 3: It's like a reserve, yes, nature reserve, a nature reserve, Yeah,
Speaker 3: sacred nature. Sacred nature reserve, one of those. It's sacred. No,
Speaker 3: But I mean it's it's like, yeah, a nature reserve.
Speaker 3: You can't touch anything, you can't get too close to it.
Speaker 3: They don't want humans fucking it up. I would think
Speaker 3: that the aliens would probably think the same way. We're
Speaker 3: not gonna go fuck shit up. And it's just super
Speaker 3: naive to think that they would need anything from us
Speaker 3: when clearly they figured out how to go here and
Speaker 3: back for thousands of years without us knowing for sure
Speaker 3: they exist. So I mean that kind of says it all. Yeah,
Speaker 3: or we're just insane and we think there's aliens and
Speaker 3: there's not.
Speaker 1: Who knows. That'd be disappointing though, yeah, yeah, that would suck.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could it could be other things though.
Speaker 1: It could be another dimension, It could be some kind
Speaker 1: of paranormal thing. It could be who knows, it could
Speaker 1: be us from I mean, that's a big theory, is
Speaker 1: that there was a huge apocalyptic disaster, Like let's say
Speaker 1: that's what like the flood with Noah's Ark was like
Speaker 1: talking about, right that a whole earth flooded at one point,
Speaker 1: the smartest of society left. They fleed because they're like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, the world's we're having a problem. But they
Speaker 1: had like advanced technology back then. All got wiped away,
Speaker 1: all the evidence of it. We got a couple of
Speaker 1: people writing little scriptures about it, but they don't really
Speaker 1: you know, it gets translated over time. It's telephone, game
Speaker 1: and telephone. But then they come back they're like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: they're dumb again.
Speaker 3: It's like, damn, these guys haven't grown up at all.
Speaker 3: They do have a cool new car, though that lambow
Speaker 3: looks pretty sick, but anyway, it's boying like here's what.
Speaker 2: Out of my spaceship, it's possible. Elon this shit's dope.
Speaker 2: Your shit sucks well.
Speaker 1: And then so you know, this has been a theory
Speaker 1: I've been going with for a while. I've talked to
Speaker 1: Dylan about this. But this started happening in the forties, right,
Speaker 1: we started seeing these and that's probably around when commercial
Speaker 1: flights became a thing, or that's when we started bugging
Speaker 1: around up there, right, So more often like they're like,
Speaker 1: maybe they're like, well, what are they doing down there
Speaker 1: or whatever. Let's say they're in the ocean, Like, what's
Speaker 1: going on up there? How did they get up there?
Speaker 1: Are they advancing? Let's not touch them? Like you said,
Speaker 1: it's a sacred reserve.
Speaker 3: So there's probably an alien or a group of aliens
Speaker 3: and a UFO at some point, and like the thirties
Speaker 3: or forties and was like, oh shit, look at that thing.
Speaker 2: What are they doing up here? They're like, oh damn it,
Speaker 2: they figured that part out.
Speaker 3: Well, gotta treat this shit differently from this point forward,
Speaker 3: and then eventually we're up there all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like that would that would have been a place
Speaker 3: that we would never be because we didn't even know
Speaker 3: how to go there or know that we could go
Speaker 3: there eventually.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all the stuff in the past, if you
Speaker 1: look at it, pretty much every religion stuff comes from
Speaker 1: the sky right before we could fly, way before we
Speaker 1: could fly. They're like, there's stuff up there in the
Speaker 1: heavens and the above us, angels, whatever, all the gods, Greek,
Speaker 1: it's whatever. They're all up there, right. Maybe they saw more,
Speaker 1: maybe that it's like maybe they were zipping around up
Speaker 1: there at one point, and then we just had leftover
Speaker 1: stories from that. Now that once we started going up,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we got to kind of hide out
Speaker 1: a little bit. We need to get away, but let's
Speaker 1: not get spotted by them. Let's let them figure out
Speaker 1: their thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are our thoughts on the new stuff, the
Speaker 3: new reports, the modern day maybe pilot sightings, the stuff
Speaker 3: that the Pentagon's talking about, you know, the genesis of
Speaker 3: the UFO Task Force. What are our thoughts on these
Speaker 3: modern day incidents that are sparking a conversation in twenty three.
Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting because I don't even know
Speaker 1: if I describe them as modern day incidents, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's the same stuff we've always been seeing.
Speaker 1: I think what makes this unique is that for the
Speaker 1: first time, the government is acknowledging it. You know, they're
Speaker 1: acknowledging that they're recording these things off the coasts of America,
Speaker 1: off the Navy ships or fighter pilots are recording these
Speaker 1: really crazy videos of things that none of them can explain,
Speaker 1: you know. And I like to think that this stuff
Speaker 1: has always been happening. This is nothing new, maybe even
Speaker 1: for thousands of years. It's always been recorded in somebody's history.
Speaker 1: But I think what's interesting about this and what's unique
Speaker 1: is that we're finally talking about it. There's a real
Speaker 1: discussion that's taking place globally, and I think it's really
Speaker 1: leading to like large leaps, like large things that are
Speaker 1: now changing in the world, and big things are happening.
Speaker 3: But regardless of what happened and what didn't happen in
Speaker 3: the last fifty years, what was true and what wasn't true,
Speaker 3: you could just look at today's incidents in the last
Speaker 3: ten years, totally ignore every other story you've heard about
Speaker 3: an abduction or roswell. Just throw it out, screw it,
Speaker 3: throw it out, and just look at what's happening today
Speaker 3: and actually have a interesting and sometimes complex conversation about it,
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of unknowns. I don't know why
Speaker 3: the government would create a UFO Task Force if there
Speaker 3: wasn't something interesting or abnormal about what they were seeing.
Speaker 3: I don't think that they're all just big sci fi buffs.
Speaker 3: I think that that would be ridiculous. I think that
Speaker 3: the actual pilots themselves experienced something strange, and that's what
Speaker 3: prompted all of this to begin with. And so you can't,
Speaker 3: you know, you have to. If we're believing navy pilots,
Speaker 3: then there's something to explore here. And I'm just curious.
Speaker 3: You know, what's your take on the modern day stories.
Speaker 3: You know, the tic TAC, the balloons over Alaska, you know,
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I think they're in a way losing some control over
Speaker 1: what could be leaked and what can't be leaked. Like
Speaker 1: I think back in the sixties they had a little
Speaker 1: more control over what was classified and what wasn't, and
Speaker 1: now certain things are like slipping through the cracks. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's a giant government cover up per se,
Speaker 1: mainly because I don't think they understand it. I think
Speaker 1: they know it. I think they know it's non human
Speaker 1: intelligence or have assumed based on all of the evidence
Speaker 1: they've collected, but they don't know what it is, or
Speaker 1: like have an explanation for it. And how do you
Speaker 1: tell you know, people who look up to you, who
Speaker 1: are like, okay, what are the answers?
Speaker 2: Like what?
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean? Like that that's how
Speaker 1: people take it, Like okay, so there's these things in
Speaker 1: the in our atmosphere that we don't know what they are.
Speaker 1: We don't know who's piloting them, we don't know who's
Speaker 1: in control of them, we don't know where they came from.
Speaker 1: That's not like you don't want to tell people that.
Speaker 1: Like if you're the teacher at a school, you got
Speaker 1: a bunch of kids and like, you know, so ask
Speaker 1: you something you don't know why is this guy blue?
Speaker 1: And you're like, actually, I don't, I have no idea.
Speaker 1: How do you explain that to them? And then how
Speaker 1: do they look up to you for the rest of
Speaker 1: the class and go, oh wait, I thought they were
Speaker 1: supposed to know everything. I thought they were supposed to
Speaker 1: have all the answers. Not saying government's expected to know
Speaker 1: all the answers, but if they're presenting these and going, hey,
Speaker 1: here's some slides of these things. We've been studying since
Speaker 1: the fifties, since the nineteen forty seven Roswell crash, and
Speaker 1: we still have no idea what it is. That's like
Speaker 1: a little concerning. I mean, if they can't figure out,
Speaker 1: they can't figure out.
Speaker 3: But plus, if that is the case, which it probably is,
Speaker 3: you know, you don't want your adversaries to know that
Speaker 3: you don't know. You're gonna want them to think that
Speaker 3: you do know. And they're thinking the same way. They
Speaker 3: don't want to show their hand and be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we have these really cool looking spaceships from nineteen forty seven,
Speaker 3: but that thing has not turned on since then. And
Speaker 3: you know, in the event that you know, Russia or
Speaker 3: China has one too, and they've been able to turn
Speaker 3: it on or reverse engineer it, then we just showed
Speaker 3: our hand, or we showed that we don't know. And
Speaker 3: now they're going to use the fact that maybe they
Speaker 3: don't know either, but they're gonna pretend like they do.
Speaker 3: And it's just like this wargame shit. It's like you
Speaker 3: you don't want to show your hand, and that's what
Speaker 3: you ultimately have to do. If there's ever gonna be
Speaker 3: some disclosure of UFO alien truth, you're gonna have to
Speaker 3: say that this stuff exists. We know for sure, it's
Speaker 3: not from Earth. It's more advanced. We've got this to work,
Speaker 3: and this still isn't working. That's all we know. That's
Speaker 3: gonna be scary to certain people. I think the younger
Speaker 3: generation will care less about it, but it'll kind of,
Speaker 3: you know, mess with some people's fundamental beliefs. And you
Speaker 3: also signal to your adversaries that you don't know. And
Speaker 3: I don't think any of the powerful countries in the
Speaker 3: world are willing to do that yet totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody wants to show their hand. And ultimately it's
Speaker 1: going to be a global effort for something like disclosure
Speaker 1: to really happen, to really come out totally. And I
Speaker 1: think I think we live in a time now where
Speaker 1: we have all the tools necessary at our disposal to
Speaker 1: make something like that happen. We have the Internet, We
Speaker 1: have the ability to where anyone can talk to anyone.
Speaker 1: We can get the data together, we can share it,
Speaker 1: we can repost it, we can talk about it, we
Speaker 1: can discuss it, and you know, you see these communities
Speaker 1: like Reddit, where a lot of cool stuff comes out,
Speaker 1: you know, government sanctioned things. There was something that came
Speaker 1: out that Jeremy corbell I sent you guys last night.
Speaker 2: Late last Yeah, watched that video.
Speaker 1: It's cool. It was like, it's supposedly it's pretty weird.
Speaker 1: Supposedly it's a leaked video from Congress from the UAP
Speaker 1: Task Force showing one of the UFOs in the ocean
Speaker 1: captured by you know, one of our navy destroyers. But
Speaker 1: that just goes to show, you know, it's like, I personally,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that the government or the military or
Speaker 1: the people who should be leading disclosure. I really think
Speaker 1: if it's ever going to come out because of all
Speaker 1: those things, because of governments not wanting to lose control
Speaker 1: or show their hands, I don't think they'll ever give
Speaker 1: us everything. They'll give us pieces. Disclosure is of no importance.
Speaker 3: If you're someone in the government now, as the citizen,
Speaker 3: you would say, yes, it is, we should know the truth.
Speaker 3: But they gain nothing by telling you that they don't
Speaker 3: know anything. They lose something, They lose something, and they
Speaker 3: could stand to lose a lot. Actually, so actually I
Speaker 3: understand it. It's just frustrating but there's no benefit in
Speaker 3: disclosing anything, especially when you only have little pieces to
Speaker 3: the puzzle.
Speaker 2: When you don't have everything that that is scarier.
Speaker 3: So what are your thoughts on the balloon extravaganza of
Speaker 3: a few months ago? You know, my take on it
Speaker 3: was that there was so many parts of it that
Speaker 3: were blatantly contradictory of itself. You know, if you zoom
Speaker 3: out and you look at what happened that week. It
Speaker 3: first started with a balloon in the sky, clearly a balloon.
Speaker 3: It was white, it was a balloon. Citizens took videos
Speaker 3: of it. It was flying low enough to be able
Speaker 3: to actually get like a glimpse of it, and it
Speaker 3: was immediately determined to be a Chinese balloon. Pretty much immediately.
Speaker 3: They shot that thing down in American fashion, and they
Speaker 3: scooped that thing up out of the ocean, and they
Speaker 3: released pictures of them scooping it out of the ocean.
Speaker 2: So okay, pretty straightforward.
Speaker 3: Then not too long after, there was reports of other
Speaker 3: balloons anomalies in the sky. The descriptions of them were
Speaker 3: kind of different, though, and in the course of a
Speaker 3: couple days they shot down three more things in the
Speaker 3: sky that they've I mean, clearly they felt like they
Speaker 3: should shoot them down because as they were either not
Speaker 3: supposed to be there or you know, I don't know,
Speaker 3: but I look at that and I say, Okay, the
Speaker 3: timing of those two things cannot be a coincidence. I
Speaker 3: don't think there's some conspiracy here. I think that because
Speaker 3: it was publicly known that there was a balloon in
Speaker 3: the sky that hung out there for several days before
Speaker 3: we did anything about it, that if there's more anomalies
Speaker 3: in the sky, that we're gonna, you know, tell our
Speaker 3: citizens and the rest of the world that we're gonna
Speaker 3: have a fast response to stuff like this, and they did.
Speaker 3: The problem is the description of the third balloon in
Speaker 3: the sky is not a balloon. And I mean I
Speaker 3: don't have it in front of me, but the way
Speaker 3: they initially described it was kind of like the Tic tac.
Speaker 3: It was cylindrical in shape, you know, size of the
Speaker 3: car or bigger, moving in weird ways, and that means
Speaker 3: they don't know what it is. Just my theory here,
Speaker 3: I feel like they seize the opportunity to take that
Speaker 3: fucker down, to take that thing down and try to
Speaker 3: study it. It's weird how there are you know, lots
Speaker 3: of pictures of the other balloons. There's even like a
Speaker 3: twenty megapixel photo from the cockpit of one of the
Speaker 3: jets a pilot took of this balloon, clearly being a balloon.
Speaker 1: It's a great shot. It looks pretty cool.
Speaker 3: It's a selfie. It's a selfie. I mean, that's a
Speaker 3: badass selfie. But there is nothing at all of the
Speaker 3: third balloon over Alaska, and.
Speaker 1: Of any the three after. There's no Yeah, there's no photos.
Speaker 1: It's classified. You can't even like, you can't request it.
Speaker 1: Why would it be classified If it's the same thing
Speaker 1: that we all saw publicly from China, why is it classified?
Speaker 1: Or if it's you know, some you know, citizens experiment
Speaker 1: that got out of hand, why would they ever be classified?
Speaker 1: Just come out and say, guys, like it's really a
Speaker 1: nothing burger, it's actually this unless it wasn't. So my
Speaker 1: theory on this is that when the first Chinese balloon
Speaker 1: flew across you know it's a surveillance balloon. It flew
Speaker 1: across the United States, basically people were reporting it in
Speaker 1: like Montana and stuff. They're like, oh shit, this is
Speaker 1: that's actually not ours. Let's let's go ahead and wait
Speaker 1: until it gets over the ocean. They got over the Atlantic,
Speaker 1: they shot it down. They're like, let's, uh, maybe we
Speaker 1: should adjust our radars a little bit, you know, dial
Speaker 1: them into like like maybe you filter it out so
Speaker 1: you don't pick up all these weather balloons that are
Speaker 1: actually flying around, because there's a lot of stuff up
Speaker 1: in the air that's just floating around. That's whether it's
Speaker 1: a hobby thing or you know, a weather balloon got
Speaker 1: bothering info. We're studying all kinds of stuff in the
Speaker 1: sky now when they adjust it to like filter out
Speaker 1: less and allow the smaller things like oh crap, there's
Speaker 1: what are all these things we're seeing? And then my
Speaker 1: theory is that they tried to shoot them down, these
Speaker 1: three other objects, and they were unsuccessful and they didn't
Speaker 1: actually shoot anything else down, but they may have got
Speaker 1: the supposedly got well.
Speaker 3: There was a guy in Alaska who was taking footage
Speaker 3: of them. They went to a place in the middle
Speaker 3: of nowhere. I mean I'm talking about middle of nowhere
Speaker 3: Alaska in the Arctic to recover something. So clearly they
Speaker 3: went there because something came down, except it wouldn't be
Speaker 3: it wasn't an easy place to get to.
Speaker 1: Now, what if that's a hobby balloon and you just
Speaker 1: spent a five hundred thousand dollars missile sidewind her missile
Speaker 1: to shoot it down. That's embarrassing. You know.
Speaker 3: If it was a hobby balloon, then the hobbyists would
Speaker 3: come forward and say that was my balloon because it's missing.
Speaker 2: That hasn't happened.
Speaker 1: Well one, so somebody tried. I don't remember if it
Speaker 1: was that one or the one over the Great.
Speaker 2: Lakes handing back for my balloon.
Speaker 1: No, I think it was. I think this was the
Speaker 1: one over the Great Lakes. But this is one thing
Speaker 1: that happened. So somebody said. You know, of course all
Speaker 1: the news media is like ran with it, and they're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: this explains all of them. They were like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: did have a weather balloon up around that area that
Speaker 1: stopped the transponders stop talking to us. It may have
Speaker 1: been ours over the Great Lakes. I'm pretty sure it
Speaker 1: was the one over the Great Lakes. But they're like,
Speaker 1: they also go down all the time, so it may
Speaker 1: not have been ours. So maybe, but like, you don't
Speaker 1: come looking for your balloon if you're setting up ten
Speaker 1: of these and you're like, well, like three or four
Speaker 1: of them are going to fall out of this guy eventually.
Speaker 1: You don't really like, You're not like, where's my balloon?
Speaker 1: Pay me back for my balloon? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like it's the casualty.
Speaker 3: I mean, my thing is like, since when do we
Speaker 3: shoot down balloons? I mean, I guess since a couple
Speaker 3: months ago we do that now haven't done it since then? Though,
Speaker 3: going back on the timeline of when those stories were
Speaker 3: coming out, I believe it was within a twenty four
Speaker 3: hour period that all three of those balloons, you know,
Speaker 3: with quotations here, balloons were shot down, right.
Speaker 1: I think it was a week or three or four
Speaker 1: days maybe, but it was like every couple days there
Speaker 1: was another one, maybe two in a row. But I
Speaker 1: don't it was yeah, can you yeah, I'll take you
Speaker 1: look it up. Either way, it was within a couple
Speaker 1: of days, right. I feel like.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was a good time, like it was a
Speaker 3: it was a win win if the government actually saw
Speaker 3: something in the sky that looked like it could be
Speaker 3: some sort of advanced craft which could come from anywhere.
Speaker 3: It could have it could have came from China, or Russia, right,
Speaker 3: or you know, another planet or dimension. Who knows if
Speaker 3: they saw something that you know, gave those characteristics, what
Speaker 3: a perfect time to seize that opportunity to take it down.
Speaker 3: So maybe you take that one down and you take
Speaker 3: down two balloons with it, and it's just super gray
Speaker 3: now what happened? And then the media just kind of
Speaker 3: stopped talking about it, because well, there's nothing more for
Speaker 3: us to learn, you know. But I think that there's
Speaker 3: so much you know, picture evidence of these obvious balloons,
Speaker 3: but the most interesting one of them all that was
Speaker 3: conveniently shot down in the middle of nowhere, Alaska. What
Speaker 3: a perfect time to do that. It's like, I'm not
Speaker 3: saying I'm not trying to speak in conspiracy theory terms.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about, like, what an efficient time to do that.
Speaker 3: Take down what could be some sort of advanced craft,
Speaker 3: not saying where it's from, just an advanced craft, take
Speaker 3: it down over the middle of nowhere, Alaska where literally
Speaker 3: no citizen could get to and do it at the
Speaker 3: same do it during the same week that these Chinese
Speaker 3: balloons are taking over the media, and this response could
Speaker 3: look good. It's like, Hey, we're defending our country we're
Speaker 3: not gonna have just random things in the sky. We're
Speaker 3: gonna take them down, and it's just like a win win.
Speaker 3: And you know, that theory could be completely debunked if
Speaker 3: we saw the photos and read the reports of what
Speaker 3: it really was and it ended up being some commercial balloon.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't have I don't have that, so
Speaker 3: I don't know that. So I'm you know, I'm having
Speaker 3: to speculate. But based on the initial reports of what
Speaker 3: it looked like, how it was moving in the sky,
Speaker 3: and the lack of information following, that makes me think that,
Speaker 3: uh oh, I think we shot down something weirder than that,
Speaker 3: and we're definitely not gonna tell you what it is
Speaker 3: because they don't they still don't know what it is.
Speaker 3: They're gonna have to go back channel and go with
Speaker 3: some random guy in some department like, oh yeah, that
Speaker 3: guy's familiar.
Speaker 2: With these things, whatever they are. So I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just find it very strange that all that happened
Speaker 3: in the same week, and the most interesting one of
Speaker 3: them all is the most mysterious one of them all,
Speaker 3: with the least amount of information, the zero pictures, zero reports,
Speaker 3: zero concrete evidence, and shot down over the most you know,
Speaker 3: convenient place in America, the middle of nowhere, Alaska. We're
Speaker 3: not a single soul is going to see what you
Speaker 3: recover from that Arctic floor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, you know, I really don't think it's a
Speaker 1: coincidence that all of these things happened in the same week.
Speaker 1: You know, if you put yourself in the perspective of
Speaker 1: the government or the military, or even like somebody like
Speaker 1: President Biden, you know, like you get this report of Hey,
Speaker 1: the Chinese are flying a spycraft over America right now,
Speaker 1: what are you going to do about it? You know,
Speaker 1: he's going to make a second decision. He's got to
Speaker 1: give the military something to do. And we have this
Speaker 1: huge military. We don't want to look globally like these
Speaker 1: people who just let China just spy in our airspace.
Speaker 1: We're supposed to have the greatest air force in the world.
Speaker 1: We're supposed to have our skies locked down. So when
Speaker 1: something like that does happen, whether or not it was
Speaker 1: an accident by China or it was on purpose, who's
Speaker 1: to say, but the fact is it happened.
Speaker 3: I've also I've said this theory to other people before,
Speaker 3: Like just like at a bar or something, and someone
Speaker 3: who is against the idea, their immediate response is, well,
Speaker 3: if they're so advanced, how can we shoot them down?
Speaker 3: Like okay, you know, good point, But I'm like, what
Speaker 3: if what they shot down is just some you know,
Speaker 3: basic drone thing that's unmanned that's just still out there
Speaker 3: doing a job that it doesn't even do anymore, and
Speaker 3: it's just like dinking around out there. I think that
Speaker 3: an fatem could totally just go potential and they could
Speaker 3: also miss but like it's not impossible to take it down.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's like I'm not saying it's like
Speaker 3: a bunch of aliens, like you know, we're at war
Speaker 3: with them and they're like not able to dodge a missile.
Speaker 3: I think that it's probably some sort of like like
Speaker 3: listen to what Aviy Lobe was saying where he thinks
Speaker 3: that some of these you know, UFOs or maybe self
Speaker 3: generating drones from so far away, then they're just they're
Speaker 3: still doing a thing. They could be from some civilization
Speaker 3: that's long lost and like its mission is over and
Speaker 3: it's just out there. It's just still works, but it's
Speaker 3: like not really relevant anymore. And that to me would
Speaker 3: make sense of how you could potentially shoot down some
Speaker 3: advanced technology, not saying that's correct. Also, I'm not even
Speaker 3: saying that the government should come forward necessarily and say
Speaker 3: what they shot down. I'm just pointing out the fact
Speaker 3: that I think it's more interesting than they're saying it is.
Speaker 3: And if anything, I get kind of excited about that
Speaker 3: because it looks like at least the government and the
Speaker 3: military are reacting to these things.
Speaker 1: Now, admitting to reacting to them, you know, admitting to
Speaker 1: reacting to them. They probably have been all along, sure,
Speaker 1: but finding out about it now.
Speaker 3: Yes, And so I think that no matter what it is,
Speaker 3: it's like, the whole point of this conversation about UFOs
Speaker 3: is there's stuff in the sky that we don't know
Speaker 3: what it is. So that's really all we're trying to
Speaker 3: figure out here. You know, the idea of there being
Speaker 3: aliens from another planet, that's a fun one. I like
Speaker 3: that idea, but that doesn't take away from the search
Speaker 3: or the mission that's you know, I don't want that
Speaker 3: to necessarily be the answer. I think it's just a possibility.
Speaker 3: And so if you start, you know, actually trying to
Speaker 3: crack the code here and solve the mystery of the
Speaker 3: unknown objects in the sky, then maybe you'll get closer
Speaker 3: to finding out what some of these other anomalies are
Speaker 3: that seemingly do stuff that defies our technology.
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear the timeline? I do? Okay,
Speaker 1: So Wednesday, February first Chinese spy balloon is spotted above
Speaker 1: Montana right February fourth, three days later shot down by
Speaker 1: an F twenty two off the coast of South Carolina.
Speaker 1: So three days it covered the whole US. February ninth,
Speaker 1: first UFO is detected off coast of Northern Northern and Alaska,
Speaker 1: the one you were talking about February tenth. That one
Speaker 1: is shot down by an F twenty two over Dead Horse, Alaska, Saturday,
Speaker 1: February eleventh. A day later, second UFO is shot down
Speaker 1: by an F twenty two over Yukon, Canada. This supports
Speaker 1: my theory. Actually it was the weird one. First. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: seize the opportunity.
Speaker 3: We just shut down a balloon, shoot that fucking thing down,
Speaker 3: whatever the hell that is, because we're responding to these
Speaker 3: things now, and shoot down two other commercial balloons that
Speaker 3: we can easily prove are something that's you know, completely nothing.
Speaker 2: Burger.
Speaker 1: The third the third one, Nora d claims it was
Speaker 1: a radar anomaly. So is that the national.
Speaker 2: In all that happened in what span of time?
Speaker 1: Uh? Got a week? Right?
Speaker 2: Not the first one? Like I don't care about the
Speaker 2: first one that we o.
Speaker 1: Nine eleven, twelve, Yeah, four days in February. Yeah. See,
Speaker 1: this timeline is really important, right because like this idea
Speaker 1: of like the Chinese weather bloom being the first, it
Speaker 1: really shows you, like where the mindset of the military
Speaker 1: was once they realized there was something invading our airspace
Speaker 1: and now America knows about it, everybody in the world
Speaker 1: knows about it. They go on high alert and they say, okay,
Speaker 1: there's something in airspace. We need to really double our
Speaker 1: efforts and look for anything else that's invading our airspace
Speaker 1: right now. We need to make sure Chine is not
Speaker 1: launching another balloon or they're not using this opportunity to
Speaker 1: find holes in our defenses. And you can imagine in
Speaker 1: that scenario, when they're on high alert, they're pointing everything
Speaker 1: they have, all their radars and everything into our skies.
Speaker 1: They start to see all these other little things popping
Speaker 1: up at the exact same time, in the same three
Speaker 1: day period, and they go, oh, there's another one. What
Speaker 1: is that? We don't know what that is. Shoot it down.
Speaker 1: Let's safe, get rid of it.
Speaker 3: You know. I want to reiterate that I don't think
Speaker 3: that the government as a whole is all knowing or something,
Speaker 3: and we're like, okay, like we're just going to collectively,
Speaker 3: you know, trick our citizens into thinking this. I think
Speaker 3: it could have been something very casual, like President Biden
Speaker 3: there's a report of something else in the sky and
Speaker 3: he's like, shoot it down, and they're like, well, sir,
Speaker 3: it's actually it's kind of got characteristics of X y Z,
Speaker 3: you know, like something that's kind of that insinuates that
Speaker 3: it's an advanced craft of some sort. Okay, shoot it
Speaker 3: down anyways, and then shoot down two more things while
Speaker 3: you're at it, because like, Okay, it's like that happened
Speaker 3: when that was February, okay, and it is mid May.
Speaker 2: So have there been no more balloons in this guy
Speaker 2: since then?
Speaker 1: No chance?
Speaker 3: So why was it important that week and that week only?
Speaker 3: I think because there was a balloon that showed itself
Speaker 3: to the public that was clearly a Chinese balloon, and
Speaker 3: the US government made that known pretty much immediately it
Speaker 3: was shot down, and then other things were shot down
Speaker 3: right after that. That I think were taking advantage of
Speaker 3: the timing, and they also could have went to go
Speaker 3: like I'm not even saying that, Like I mean, because
Speaker 3: the president has to give the order to do.
Speaker 1: That, right, which somebody recently or not recently, during when
Speaker 1: all this was happening, somebody went on TV and was
Speaker 1: like a Navy pilot and said, like, it's very strange
Speaker 1: for the president to make the call on shooting something down.
Speaker 1: It's like that doesn't happen, that's like warshit. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So my point is, though I'm not even saying that
Speaker 3: the president knew what he was shooting down. I think
Speaker 3: that they probably didn't know exactly, but it was similar
Speaker 3: enough to these other reports. Why is it like almost
Speaker 3: a carbing copy description of the tic TAC it is
Speaker 3: pull up the initial description of that thing.
Speaker 1: The one over Alaska. Mm hmmm, because I know him.
Speaker 1: The he's in the word car because that's it was
Speaker 1: like a TV or something some weird He specifically said
Speaker 1: it was not a balloon, and then they took that out.
Speaker 3: Of the the they report retroactively deleted that part.
Speaker 1: From the minutes of him talking, and when they would
Speaker 1: easily just be like.
Speaker 3: A, oh oops, that was not really that that was
Speaker 3: an accident, Like, you know, it's not some super it's
Speaker 3: not some big conspiracy.
Speaker 2: It's just a little thing you can do real quick.
Speaker 3: They kind of just you know, little smoke a mirror
Speaker 3: is just enough to buy some time to figure out
Speaker 3: this shit. Like that's what you're doing, right, Like that's
Speaker 3: what I would do if I was in charge of
Speaker 3: making sure they didn't know. I'm like, okay, like a
Speaker 3: little smoke and mirrors here, you know, make sure that
Speaker 3: line's not in the report. And some interns like are
Speaker 3: your shirt yes? Or you're fired?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's weird how reminiscent it is to Roswell, you know,
Speaker 1: like our present day roswell for a new age. You know,
Speaker 1: it's super similar. But it's crazy to think like a
Speaker 1: little word change like that could have huge ramifications, like
Speaker 1: changing a flying disc to a weather balloon in nineteen
Speaker 1: forty seven. You know, it expands.
Speaker 3: The reason why I still think about it is because
Speaker 3: if it was just nothing, it's in their best interest
Speaker 3: to prove that it was nothing, it would be show
Speaker 3: us that it was a balloon, show us the evidens
Speaker 3: all shut up and be like, yeah, I was, you know,
Speaker 3: I was a little out there on that one. I was,
Speaker 3: you know, I was speculating a little too hard. But like,
Speaker 3: they would have that information, so they would share it,
Speaker 3: and unless it was something that would be concerning, confusing
Speaker 3: or alarming or puzzling, then they.
Speaker 2: Would share it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's something this idea of like making things
Speaker 1: top secret because of national security implications is something that
Speaker 1: Brian Bender talks a lot about. M He talks about
Speaker 1: all the time that I think Leslie King did as well,
Speaker 1: that the government's mo is always too classify, classify, classify, classify, yep.
Speaker 1: And I mean, ultimately that's the reason why we haven't
Speaker 1: seen any pictures or any video of these things. They
Speaker 1: definitely have it, and they have it in HD quality,
Speaker 1: you know, but they're always going to say even if
Speaker 1: it was a weather balloon, if it was absolutely nothing,
Speaker 1: if it was a commercial, private funded weather balloon, we'll
Speaker 1: probably still never see it because they don't want us
Speaker 1: to know, because they would rather have it classified and
Speaker 1: not have to worry about the implications or the ramifications
Speaker 1: down the road of giving away anything. It isn't even
Speaker 1: always about the craft itself. If it were weather bloom,
Speaker 1: they may not want you to know that they've got
Speaker 1: a satellite that could zoom in ten thousand times and
Speaker 1: see something super clearly on the ground, and that may
Speaker 1: be what they took a picture with, and they don't
Speaker 1: want our enemies to know that we have that up there,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, you just never know what the
Speaker 1: national security implication is. But that's a lot of reasons
Speaker 1: why we have so little evidence.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't it be okay to say, hey, we shot
Speaker 3: something down of our own and everything's fine, but like
Speaker 3: it's classified.
Speaker 1: Is that just? Is that giving away too much to
Speaker 1: the adversaries? No, But I think saying that people naturally
Speaker 1: would say prove it, you know, like show us how
Speaker 1: you know that, and then if they say we can't
Speaker 1: do that, then you're kind of just back at square
Speaker 1: one and you've done nothing. Really, So why even give
Speaker 1: that information away? Why not just say it's classified and
Speaker 1: move on.
Speaker 3: It just bothersome to me because it was a very
Speaker 3: short period of time, in less than a week, that
Speaker 3: they treated one incident this way and another one differently.
Speaker 3: They treated one where they blatantly said what it was,
Speaker 3: showed off with high quality pictures what it was and video,
Speaker 3: and that they had shot it down and scooped it
Speaker 3: up and then twenty four hours later it's something similar
Speaker 3: and silence totally.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they said it was cylindrical and silverish gray,
Speaker 1: about the size of a small car.
Speaker 3: So why would like you could even argue that that
Speaker 3: could be a balloon? Well, why would a balloon way
Speaker 3: out there be of interest unless it wasn't?
Speaker 1: And I remember if I remember correct, then it could
Speaker 1: be wrong, so fact check me on this. But this
Speaker 1: thing was moving pretty quick, right, Like, wasn't the jet
Speaker 1: struggling to keep up with it? Or they were like
Speaker 1: matching speed which would have been like four hundred miles
Speaker 1: an hours.
Speaker 2: Is there a description of how it moved or.
Speaker 1: Did they say that it was stationary? I could be wrong.
Speaker 2: They didn't say it was stationary, I don't think.
Speaker 1: Well, they do say it seemed to be floating without
Speaker 1: any sign of propulsion, was at the whim of the wind,
Speaker 1: But they said did not have enough information to determine
Speaker 1: if it was balloon, like they said it wasn't manned.
Speaker 1: M let's see, it interfered with the pilot's plane sensors.
Speaker 1: That's the weird part. That's the weirdest part.
Speaker 3: And interfered so not picked up on it, but interfered with.
Speaker 1: Pilots couldn't figure out how it was staying in the air,
Speaker 1: which seems to rule out balloon.
Speaker 3: So no propulsion, not a balloon. Silver Metasa are pilots
Speaker 3: who are flying the most advanced craft that we know
Speaker 3: about in the world. That's interesting, And it's even more
Speaker 3: interesting that they closed the book on it immediately after,
Speaker 3: when days before they were an open book about allegedly
Speaker 3: the same thing.
Speaker 1: Just saying yeah, it's bizarre. You know, I really think
Speaker 1: that it was just it was a situation where they
Speaker 1: got in over their head. They you know, they saw
Speaker 1: this balloon. They like they knew they need to shoot
Speaker 1: down the bloon, and they did. But because so many
Speaker 1: people's eyes are now in the sky watching everybody at
Speaker 1: the time. You remember, everybody's got their phones out. Everybody's
Speaker 1: looking in the sky hoping another balloon's going to fly
Speaker 1: over their state and they can get a video of it.
Speaker 1: Knowing so many people are watching the sky, they've got
Speaker 1: to double their efforts to make sure nothing else is
Speaker 1: going to fly through the sky. Nothing's going to fall
Speaker 1: on a town kill somebody. So they're just on high
Speaker 1: alert they see these other things. The other thing that
Speaker 1: I remember from the article that was interesting is the
Speaker 1: reason they decided they needed to shoot these down was
Speaker 1: because there was it was it was flying an elevation
Speaker 1: that was dangerous to commercial aircraft, which those were the taks. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: All these things seem to fly around like forty thousand feet.
Speaker 1: So when you say that and you say, Okay, we
Speaker 1: don't know what this is. It's not coming up in
Speaker 1: like the FA's database of approved things that should be
Speaker 1: in the skies. It's on our radars because we've tuned
Speaker 1: them differently to like check for these things. Now, what
Speaker 1: do we do with it. We got to air on
Speaker 1: the side of caution and get it out of the sky,
Speaker 1: because if it interferes with the plane and kills four
Speaker 1: hundred people, that's going to be a much bigger deal
Speaker 1: than if we just can shoot something down with one
Speaker 1: missile somewhere in Alaska. Right, whether or not it's an
Speaker 1: alien or not. From that perspective, being in the military,
Speaker 1: you have a responsibility to the citizens to get rid
Speaker 1: of it, to get it out of it. And it's
Speaker 1: very likely that if it were UFO, even if it weren't,
Speaker 1: if they suspected that it were, they'd want to shoot
Speaker 1: it down and collect it. You know, if there's something
Speaker 1: they could learn from it, if they could develop our
Speaker 1: air force better, give us better technology, you're obviously you're
Speaker 1: going to want to do that. At the time what happened, Actually,
Speaker 1: I think so too. I subscribe to that. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: also said it wasn't an aircraft per se per se,
Speaker 1: it's more like a disc, like a hovercraft.
Speaker 3: I mean, it is uncanny how similar the description is
Speaker 3: to the TIC tact though, And it's like I would
Speaker 3: i'd totally if I was wrong and it was just
Speaker 3: some balloon, and I would just say, well, you know,
Speaker 3: there were things that you said that made me think otherwise,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe be a little more clear on your
Speaker 3: description to the public of what it is.
Speaker 2: But I think I don't think it's that deep.
Speaker 3: I think it's probably is what it is, and on
Speaker 3: the surface, I don't have to go very far to think, eh,
Speaker 3: it's a little weird. I think that they shot down
Speaker 3: something that was, you know, a little more interesting than
Speaker 3: the other things, and they don't want to tell us
Speaker 3: about it because they don't fully know either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to like build on this and also tie it
Speaker 1: back into another episode. When we talked to Ryan Graves,
Speaker 1: he mentioned being out on I think it was the
Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean, somewhere like sixty miles out and for years
Speaker 1: he would see these things off the coast of America.
Speaker 1: And there have been reports from the Navy from both
Speaker 1: coasts that these things that I mean exactly match that description,
Speaker 1: just float out in armadas, I mean in like several,
Speaker 1: like I don't know how many. I think they said
Speaker 1: they had like six on the Tiktak video. Like, these
Speaker 1: things just seem to float out one hundred miles off
Speaker 1: our coast. And if they're out there, and they've been
Speaker 1: there since if I remember, he said since like twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen is when he first started seeing them, it's likely
Speaker 1: these things are all over the world, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: in hidden places or places where there's not heavy population.
Speaker 1: But the odds that we shoot down two in a week,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not crazy that they were there. Maybe they're
Speaker 1: all over the place and we just happened to see
Speaker 1: those two because we were looking.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, so I think you're right about that.
Speaker 1: The thing that makes me just most like this wasn't
Speaker 1: a balloon is that they were scrambled on in the
Speaker 1: most expensive jets. Right, they did visuals, got images, right,
Speaker 1: definitely took photos of it, shot it down. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: they didn't. They say they recovered pieces of it. But
Speaker 1: when John Greenwald requested any images or photos or videos
Speaker 1: from these events, they're all classified. So why why, like,
Speaker 1: is it some secret Russian or Chinese thing that we
Speaker 1: can't see? Which why can't we see We can't even
Speaker 1: see the debris of it like that. It's very very
Speaker 1: fishy that they're not just like, hey, guys, it was
Speaker 1: just a balloon. Here's some pictures of it.
Speaker 3: Because a few days ago, you guys basically told us
Speaker 3: that you will show us, Hey, look this is that
Speaker 3: balloon and we got it for you America and it
Speaker 3: was the Chinese, and we you know, we show them
Speaker 3: and it's like okay. Then just a few days later
Speaker 3: the complete opposite. That tells me that it's something different,
Speaker 3: something more important in some sort of way.
Speaker 1: And what if it was what if it was theirs? Right?
Speaker 3: It was it was some secret, some blunder like government. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was Joe's weather balloon. It's always a weather balloon. No.
Speaker 1: I meant like, let's say it was skunkworks or something.
Speaker 3: There's so many damn weather balloons up there. Why can
Speaker 3: the meteorologists get the rain right? I mean, like, at
Speaker 3: this point, it's just maybe weather balloons just didn't really
Speaker 3: work that well or something.
Speaker 2: It was a primitive idea.
Speaker 3: Some meteorologist is gonna tweet it me like actually, and
Speaker 3: that's fine, Like I actually don't know, please tweeted me.
Speaker 3: But I'm like, weather balloon, that seems like an archaic
Speaker 3: thing at this point. I'm sure we still use them,
Speaker 3: but like they're not getting the weather from that, are they?
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I think after one hundred years, people would just stop
Speaker 1: losing their weather balloons.
Speaker 2: There's too many damn weather balloons to not have more
Speaker 2: accurate weather.
Speaker 1: It's true. Seriously, Well it's aliens in there here.
Speaker 3: So before we wrap up this roundtable, I want to
Speaker 3: figure out a way to keep this podcast going, keep
Speaker 3: High Strange going, keep talking about this stuff right, And
Speaker 3: obviously I want to do a second season of some
Speaker 3: sort I want to be able to dive into more cases,
Speaker 3: interview more people, even expand it beyond America. I've had
Speaker 3: a lot of questions from people saying, well, you know,
Speaker 3: I was compelled by the podcast, but it seems like
Speaker 3: it might just be an American thing.
Speaker 2: And I totally get that. It does on the surface
Speaker 2: kind of seem that way.
Speaker 3: But you know, just from our basic research, it's happening
Speaker 3: all over the place, and there's other stories that are
Speaker 3: in some ways even more compelling than what we told
Speaker 3: in this series, that have happened all over the globe,
Speaker 3: And so one I want to do a second season
Speaker 3: the way like season one, where it's a deep dive
Speaker 3: into this concept, this idea, and talk to the people
Speaker 3: who've witnessed things and really you know, challenge their stories,
Speaker 3: put together, put together the evidence, and lay it out
Speaker 3: there for the listener to decide for themselves, and just
Speaker 3: expand on it a little deeper. Now that we've had
Speaker 3: our introduction to the topic, let's dive even deeper, now
Speaker 3: that we're not thinking about just the basics of whether
Speaker 3: or not this is interesting to you. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, you know, it took us shit at least
Speaker 3: a year and a half to make high strange logistically,
Speaker 3: it was hard traveling all over the country to talk
Speaker 3: to these people. But the cool part about it now
Speaker 3: is that so many people email us and you know,
Speaker 3: reach out to us with their stories and all the
Speaker 3: people that I've met along the way other journalists have
Speaker 3: kind of plugged us into the pipeline a little bit,
Speaker 3: which has been really cool. And we'll have a lot better,
Speaker 3: more efficient access to do with season two.
Speaker 1: All that to say, what do we do in the interim?
Speaker 3: I feel like we should keep talking about this stuff
Speaker 3: like us and we decide we should decide right now
Speaker 3: to commit to a season two and just dive headfirst
Speaker 3: in again. And in the meantime we should talk about
Speaker 3: the subject like a traditional podcast. And I kind of
Speaker 3: want to get just a temperature from the listeners those
Speaker 3: out there hearing this, like would that be of interest
Speaker 3: to you? Would you listen to that? If you would,
Speaker 3: then I think that we could keep going and also
Speaker 3: have on tons of guests. I mean, we have so
Speaker 3: many people we've met and there's probably unanswered questions even
Speaker 3: from us on certain guests that we're on season one,
Speaker 3: that we could dive a little deeper into and just
Speaker 3: keep the conversation going and evolving and not get stale.
Speaker 3: So I want to know from the listeners, those out
Speaker 3: there hearing this, would you want us to keep going
Speaker 3: and talk about this in this way while we put
Speaker 3: together a buttoned up season two?
Speaker 2: Would you do that? If the answer is no, it's
Speaker 2: all good.
Speaker 3: But I feel like, selfishly, selfishly, I want to do
Speaker 3: it because now this topic I can't get out of
Speaker 3: my head, and I feel like we could offer a
Speaker 3: different sort of approach to this, just like the podcast
Speaker 3: was before. But why just shut it down and wait?
Speaker 3: Why not keep talking about it? We might be able
Speaker 3: to find more interesting stuff to put in season two.
Speaker 3: I don't know, what are your thoughts still on?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I mean the podcast itself is it's such a unique
Speaker 1: look into this subject. It comes from a really unique place,
Speaker 1: which is very fact based, very evidence based, talking to
Speaker 1: people who are very reputable people, you know, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people in this space. Nothing against them, because
Speaker 1: it is fun to talk about, but a lot of
Speaker 1: people just love to talk about like the the outer limits,
Speaker 1: you know, the wild side of this, the crazy things
Speaker 1: you could never prove or disprove, and that's fun. To
Speaker 1: talk about. But I think what's really going to push
Speaker 1: this conversation forward is stuff like this, you know, like
Speaker 1: High Strangers the podcast, and even like this, like Roundtable.
Speaker 1: It's like this is unique even on top of that
Speaker 1: in that it's much longer form. You know, we've been
Speaker 1: going for an hour and a half just shooting the
Speaker 1: ship talking about what. Yeah, tell me about it.
Speaker 3: Shotgun the first upstairs bathroom. I'm serious, I might not
Speaker 3: making it an adult I'm sure I've had like four
Speaker 3: bottle waters in the past like three hours. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I keep an empty bottle. I'm too hydrated.
Speaker 1: I'm over hydrated. Yeah, but it's uh, it's it's a
Speaker 1: cool platform, you know. So I hope we get to
Speaker 1: keep doing it and get to expand on it, because
Speaker 1: it'd be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: If if, if you're if your game as a listener
Speaker 3: to keep hearing us ramble and and also you know,
Speaker 3: have some cool interviews and you know, unpack some details
Speaker 3: for real, then I would love to know your thoughts
Speaker 3: on that, and we'll promise you a badass second season
Speaker 3: and we'll update you right here along the way.
Speaker 1: Do we have like a tip line or something people
Speaker 1: can email.
Speaker 2: Still it's three.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. Someone's gonna be like cool. So if
Speaker 3: it starts with three and he almost said one, but
Speaker 3: what what are the could you do that?
Speaker 1: Could you figure out?
Speaker 2: There'd be a lot of combinations. Good luck.
Speaker 3: If you call me and that's how you found it,
Speaker 3: then I'll talk to you for real. I'll put it
Speaker 3: in the we can just add that, like we should
Speaker 3: make a number. I think that I actually would. I
Speaker 3: would love to talk to listeners about this. I also
Speaker 3: want more opinions in the room, more takes. I think
Speaker 3: that you know, we made this podcast not really having
Speaker 3: a fully formulated take on this, and it's it's an
Speaker 3: ever evolving thing in my head, and I want to
Speaker 3: talk to tons of different people, all walks of life
Speaker 3: and just kind of get their two cents, Like, what
Speaker 3: are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2: How does this make you feel? You know, what kind
Speaker 2: of theory do you have?
Speaker 3: Like, let's just spark the discussion and maybe we'll get
Speaker 3: somewhere through that. You know, no one's right or wrong here,
Speaker 3: It's just it's an unsolved mystery. It's still unsolved, but
Speaker 3: it's going to stay that way unless we talk about it.
Speaker 3: Even if we learn tomorrow that it's all fake, which
Speaker 3: I think would be impossible at this point, I think
Speaker 3: that we would have probably helped push it to that answer. Still,
Speaker 3: So regardless of what it is, I think until we
Speaker 3: know for certain, you know, a healthy conversation wouldn't hurt.
Speaker 2: Mike. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you should also send in all of
Speaker 1: your hate mail.
Speaker 3: If the answer is no, I'm gonna get a hundred
Speaker 3: emails of people saying, hell, no, dude, I don't want
Speaker 3: to hear you talk. Go make that show. And you
Speaker 3: guys are be like, so what do they say? I'm like, dude,
Speaker 3: they really dig it. They love this idea, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I gotta I gotta tell them.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, if if they listen this far
Speaker 1: into this episode and send a you're lying. You listen
Speaker 1: to it and you liked it, so you're getting more
Speaker 1: either of course.
Speaker 3: And here's the thing, Like I would probably get annoyed
Speaker 3: of hearing myself, to be honest, but I feel like
Speaker 3: it could be interesting to get a little insight on
Speaker 3: you know, even us just making the damn thing.
Speaker 2: It's uh, and we'll give you some nuggets.
Speaker 3: We'll spoil some stuff for you, you know, not too much,
Speaker 3: but like enough for you to stay interested. But I'm like,
Speaker 3: it'd be kind of cool if we just decided, you know,
Speaker 3: we didn't know what was going to happen with High Strange.
Speaker 3: We didn't know if people would like it, if it
Speaker 3: was you know, if it was too kooky, if it
Speaker 3: was you know, not interesting enough. But I think now
Speaker 3: that it's you know, the last episode is out, where
Speaker 3: do we go from here? I want to make a
Speaker 3: second season even better than the first, But how do
Speaker 3: we keep this thing alive, you know, between now and none?
Speaker 3: Maybe we just meet every week or once a month
Speaker 3: or I don't know what it is and just kind
Speaker 3: of shoot the shit about this kind of stuff and
Speaker 3: further unpack the details of season one, and also bringing
Speaker 3: back all these guests and invite the listeners to ask
Speaker 3: questions and just make it an open, an open conversation
Speaker 3: that I think could be a lot of fun and
Speaker 3: we might learn something.
Speaker 2: Maybe not, but it does sound fun. You know, Mike,
Speaker 2: you haven't said very much.
Speaker 3: Mike's just like, I'm just thinking about trying to think
Speaker 3: of a good joke. He's like, what's funny that I
Speaker 3: could say.
Speaker 1: I think we do it. I think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: an endless topic. That's I'm fully consumed in it since
Speaker 1: before we, you know, start researching it for high strange,
Speaker 1: I was kind of really into UFOs, aliens, high strangeness.
Speaker 1: I really like Bigfoot, all kinds of things. I like him.
Speaker 1: I've met him.
Speaker 2: Okay, he's a nice guy.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, No, I'm fascinated with all of the unexplained,
Speaker 1: even with people who go missing without a trace. That's
Speaker 1: fascinating me. Any any mystery in the world. Like you,
Speaker 1: I'm just like you. Where I loved the Twilight Zone.
Speaker 1: I love the unexplained, the mysterious, that out there stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm very into it. So I can talk about this
Speaker 1: stuff all day, every day, and I enjoy to talk
Speaker 1: about it. So, yeah, I won't send you hate mail
Speaker 1: saying don't do it. We'll try it not to you. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're gonna do it. Yeah, I'm like this, bro. I
Speaker 1: know this is a fake email address, it still has it.
Speaker 3: I can see it. I saw it on your phone.
Speaker 3: Minds you not Mike at gmail dot com. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: so yeah, please email us tell us your thoughts, send
Speaker 3: us an email. Send us an email at tips at
Speaker 3: high strange dot com. I'm gonna go make a phone
Speaker 3: number for this and I'll add it after this this roundtable.
Speaker 3: But yeah, tell us what you think, and we're pretty
Speaker 3: energized about doing a second season. I think that it'd
Speaker 3: be super fun and there's so much more to explore
Speaker 3: if you guys are down for that, you know, we'd
Speaker 3: love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: And would you entertain hearing us shoot the ship for
Speaker 2: a little
Speaker 3: Bit in between them if we gave you some cool stuff,
Speaker 3: right secrets, secret information,