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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Jason Kelly. I'm Alex Rodriguez, and on this

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Speaker 2: episode of The Deal, George Pine. So George Pine, Alex.

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Speaker 2: He is the former CEO of NASCAR, former president of IMG,

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Speaker 2: now the founder of Bruin Capital. This is a guy

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Speaker 2: that if you are in the sports world, you are

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Speaker 2: one degree from him because he's everywhere. He's got a

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Speaker 2: speed dial like no one else, has been involved in

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Speaker 2: major deals and is looking around the corner constantly for

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Speaker 2: what's happening next in sports.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think in many ways, Jason, guys like you and

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Speaker 4: I we looked up to Warren Buffett and other great CEOs.

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Speaker 4: I think this is a guy that if you're a

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Speaker 4: young entrepreneur you should study.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And the reason why he has a perfect trifecta, I mean,

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Speaker 4: you said it best. He's a wonderful family man. He's

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Speaker 4: built an incredible business in Bruin Capital, and he's got

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Speaker 4: old class relationships with an amazing culture.

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Speaker 2: Here's George Pine. All right, George. Should we start the

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Speaker 2: show always by having people introduce themselves, their names and

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Speaker 2: what they do.

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Speaker 3: George Pine, founder and CEO Brewin Capital, now I could

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Speaker 3: use the Boston accent. George Pine, I.

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Speaker 2: Realized, listen, when you use a Boston accent, it gives

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Speaker 2: this guy PTSD.

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Speaker 5: So your audience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so use that, use that to your advantage. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you don't like it, question, if you don't like

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Speaker 2: a question you asked, just answered, and the boss, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're wondering how to start the conversation with you, you know,

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Speaker 2: looking at all the stuff you've done for your career,

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Speaker 2: what would you say so far? Is your signature deal?

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Speaker 3: Signature deal? You know, I do? You know, I don't

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Speaker 3: really look in terms of that. I think the thing

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Speaker 3: probably if you ask you what am I most proud of?

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Speaker 3: Maybe you know deal. Earnhardt passed away on the last

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Speaker 3: lap of the Daytona five hundred weeks before I was

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Speaker 3: promoted to run the company. Having to lead the safety

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Speaker 3: initiatives at NASCAR through a very difficult period, it's probably

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Speaker 3: the thing I'm most proud of. And then, of course

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Speaker 3: that had two avenues. One was actually putting in safety

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Speaker 3: policies and procedures and creating an R and D center,

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Speaker 3: the first of its kind in the world, and then

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Speaker 3: also too navigating the communications challenges of that because overnight

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Speaker 3: NASCAR became so much more popular at that time. So

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Speaker 3: that of all the things I'm most proud of, I

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Speaker 3: think it is that error and dealing with that challenge,

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Speaker 3: and luckily they've had almost perfect safety record since then.

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Speaker 2: What was that moment, like, I mean, that was a

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Speaker 2: I mean that was a similar moment in the sport.

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Speaker 3: It was to lose your greatest driver of all time,

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Speaker 3: and we had lost three other guys in last eighteen months,

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Speaker 3: and then when the greatest of all time passes away,

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Speaker 3: it just it shook the whole industry right to the core.

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Speaker 3: And of course we were leading the nightly news three

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Speaker 3: nights in a row and we are The scrutiny on

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Speaker 3: the sport was off the charts, So that rattled you.

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Speaker 3: It really rattled you to your course. So having to

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Speaker 3: kind of stabilize and kind of like sports getting out,

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Speaker 3: you got to go back and play the next day

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Speaker 3: and dig in there and find your way through it. It

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Speaker 3: was really probably one of the most challenging things, but

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Speaker 3: we came out the other end and made great strides

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Speaker 3: and had a real impact over a long period of time.

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Speaker 3: So if you look at ask me what I'm most

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Speaker 3: proud of. It's that effort.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about that, George, Because obviously, when the returns

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Speaker 4: are great and you're returning capital to investors and all,

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Speaker 4: that is all wonderful, But in a very very difficult

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Speaker 4: moment leadership wise, what were some of the things that

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Speaker 4: you did over those three days to thirty days to

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Speaker 4: make everybody feel better about themselves?

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Speaker 3: Wow? I think you have to lead by example and

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Speaker 3: taking tough positions. I mean, we installed hans device, which

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Speaker 3: was very unpopular at the time. We put data recorders

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Speaker 3: in the cars, which was also controversial. So pushing through

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Speaker 3: a number of changes that culturally and for other reasons

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Speaker 3: the organization had never done before. But you had to

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Speaker 3: do it right. So what was your option? So having

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Speaker 3: the courage to push through change at a difficult moment

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Speaker 3: and sticking with it and believing it and standing up

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Speaker 3: was really what I took away from that. So I

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Speaker 3: think a leader has to take a stand, do things

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Speaker 3: that are uncomfortable, and be thoughtful at that is, you

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Speaker 3: don't really want to go against the grand to go

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Speaker 3: against the grain, but you know, you to lead, you've

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Speaker 3: got to take a stand and do what you believe in.

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Speaker 2: So over the course of this conversation, we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk a lot about your leadership and candidly like your

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Speaker 2: operational expertise and your operating experience and how that translates

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Speaker 2: into your investment world. But I feel like I have

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Speaker 2: to go all the way back. And Alex knows this

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Speaker 2: because I've known you for a long time. I mentioned

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Speaker 2: when I was basically a kid in Atlanta for our

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Speaker 2: mutual friend Billy, and right, he started out in the

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Speaker 2: real estate where you come out of Brown. What's the

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Speaker 2: quick story of how you get from there me meeting

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Speaker 2: you and Helene, like on club Drive in Atlanta to today.

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Speaker 3: As I tell everyone, there's no way to replicate my journey. Right,

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Speaker 3: I moved to Atlanta, I had five thousand dollars. My

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Speaker 3: wife had a car with ninety thousand miles in no

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Speaker 3: air conditioning. My car had one hundred and seventy thousand

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Speaker 3: miles and only two of the four doors worked right,

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Speaker 3: and we literally had to use our credit credit cards

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Speaker 3: to pay the bills we had. Our friend Billy came

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Speaker 3: over to our apartment and said, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 3: in a college JOm. I said, yeah, this is all

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Speaker 3: my stuff for my college JOm So it was a journey,

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Speaker 3: but again I come from a family of athletes and

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Speaker 3: didn't want to fail. Like I never really cared about winning,

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Speaker 3: but I never wanted to lose, right, And so I

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Speaker 3: moved away went to this new place, Atlanta. Atlanta was great.

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Speaker 3: It was having the Olympics in the Super Bowl, and

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Speaker 3: I worked in a big real estate company and had

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Speaker 3: built twenty seven buildings in downtown Atlanta. And I was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: we should get in the sports business. And my boss

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Speaker 3: thought I was crazy. But on the side, I built

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Speaker 3: a little sports business, signed up NASCAR in nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 3: and people forget today. When I went to NASCAR, it

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Speaker 3: was called Winston Cup. Sixteen races were on the Nashville

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Speaker 3: Network and the company had one office and it was

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Speaker 3: very small. You know, when we left here on Fox.

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Speaker 3: At NBC we had nine offices.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, I want to stop you there. It was

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Speaker 2: not called NASCAR.

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Speaker 3: It was Winston Cup Racing right as a tobacco sponsor,

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Speaker 3: and people referred to Winston Cup. The NASCAR brand at

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Speaker 3: that point didn't really exist, and NASCAR at the time

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Speaker 3: when I went there was a company that sanctioned the

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Speaker 3: races and administered the races. It wasn't supposed to be

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Speaker 3: in the commercial side, and so they let myself and

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Speaker 3: Brian France were anointed to go try and develop a

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Speaker 3: commercial business. And man, we took off. You hit it hard.

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Speaker 3: I knew we had a big opportunity and it worked out,

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Speaker 3: and so it was an amazing run. The industry was great,

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Speaker 3: but I wasn't a car give so, you know, I

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Speaker 3: was forty years old. It had a little itching me

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Speaker 3: and I want to do something else. And so I

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Speaker 3: had a frantic oldman Sacks and said, hey, you know

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Speaker 3: you should go see this guy Ted Forceman, he just

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Speaker 3: bought IMG. And I was like, all right, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know who Ted was, and I thought I went by

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Speaker 3: I saw Ted. I thought it was go me thirty minutes.

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Speaker 3: It was two hours. And Ted, when he wanted something

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Speaker 3: was pretty compelling. And the notion of good IMG worked

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Speaker 3: for a guy who is a leader in private equity

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Speaker 3: to me was legend in private He said he invented it.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure that too, but I felt like working

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Speaker 3: for him I could learn a lot, which I did.

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Speaker 3: And obviously IMG was in thirty countries and so running

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Speaker 3: a company that operated in thirty countries that was in

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Speaker 3: wide array of sports. Working for a guy like Ted,

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Speaker 3: for me was like, all right, that sounds good.

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Speaker 4: So I like when you mentioned Ted force me because

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Speaker 4: the first time I heard of him was when he

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Speaker 4: bought twenty four hour Fitness from my partner, Mark Mastrow,

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Speaker 4: and I think they did that deal for about a

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Speaker 4: billion eight marchers loved working with him.

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Speaker 5: But tell us a little bit about Ted.

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Speaker 4: Our listeners, probably a little bit younger, don't know much

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Speaker 4: about Ted, but he's a legend. Tell us what he

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Speaker 4: meant to you and what were some of the attributes

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Speaker 4: unless as you learned from him.

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Speaker 3: I had really three great mentors. And Atlanta, a guy

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Speaker 3: named John Portman who was one of the great American

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Speaker 3: architects at twenty five million square feet of real estate,

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Speaker 3: and I work with him through a financial restructuring, and

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Speaker 3: then working at NASCAR for Bill France. Bill France was

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Speaker 3: another billionaire, very successful guy, and then working for Ted Forsman.

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Speaker 3: So I learned different things from different people. Ted what

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Speaker 3: I really learned was he was very conservative and a

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Speaker 3: little bit negative. But boy, if he was able through

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Speaker 3: structure to come up with an idea to minimize the risk.

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Speaker 3: Like the guy was all in right away. And so

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Speaker 3: what I really learned from him was, and I tell

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Speaker 3: my kids, the risk reward ratio, what's the upside, what's

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Speaker 3: the downside? Is it worth it? And if it's worth it,

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Speaker 3: you go for it. That's what I took away from Ted.

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Speaker 3: The other thing from these three guys all highly successful,

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Speaker 3: they all worked, they worked hard, They're smart. I'll tell

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Speaker 3: you one of the funny one is, so my last

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Speaker 3: day at NASCAR, I'm going to lunch with Bill France

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Speaker 3: and Jim France, two billionaires. Where do we go? We

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Speaker 3: go to stake and shit, and they're wearing like short

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Speaker 3: sleeves and we're driving home and I said, I go, guys,

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Speaker 3: can you give me one piece of advice? It's great advice.

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Speaker 3: They said, no, when to squeeze and no when not

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Speaker 3: to squeeze, And that was it, right, But that was

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Speaker 3: kind of having the judgment of knowing when to push

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Speaker 3: and when not to push. So like watching these guys

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Speaker 3: Dan and Dale for me was a great, great learning experience.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what's the transition like from what I mean

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Speaker 2: you go from these two like iconic people in American

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Speaker 2: business and finance. Was there any sort of transition from

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Speaker 2: working for the Frances, you know, you know pretty well

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Speaker 2: codified family business to Ted Force, I mean barbarians at

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Speaker 2: the gate. How do you sort of adjust mentally like

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Speaker 2: what are you going home and saying to Helene of like, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is this is a different world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So NASCAR was because it was a family business.

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Speaker 3: Really all you had to do was convince the family

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Speaker 3: of the right thing to do, and you're doing immediately

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Speaker 3: no politics, which I love, and there was no kind

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Speaker 3: of political maneuvering and so that was great for me.

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Speaker 3: And I was kind of a guy that went out

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Speaker 3: there in the fields and did the work and you know,

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Speaker 3: brought the goods home and did it again and did

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Speaker 3: it again. And when you went to Ted, Ted was

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Speaker 3: an investor, not an operator. And investors sometimes when they

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Speaker 3: don't know a business, there there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: different inputs, and when you're running a global company, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot more politics. And I was not When I

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Speaker 3: first went to I'MGA i was forty years old. I

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Speaker 3: was like, hey, if you're doing a good job and

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Speaker 3: you're driving results, that should be good enough. And what

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Speaker 3: I learned in that environment was that may not be

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Speaker 3: the case. So it's you know, I tell people, you know,

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Speaker 3: you need good style, but also up in substance, and

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Speaker 3: I was more substantive I think at NASCAR, and I

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Speaker 3: needed to work on the style kind of the presenting

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Speaker 3: and being a little more political, which I didn't like

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Speaker 3: quite honestly, and we don't have it brewin today. But

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Speaker 3: that was if you said to me, what was different?

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Speaker 3: You know, working for a global financier who has a

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Speaker 3: lot of inputs, you've got to be a different set

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Speaker 3: of management skills working for a family business and delivering results.

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Speaker 2: And so what was the like you get to IMG

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Speaker 2: and what's the biggest challenge that you took on there?

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Speaker 3: Well, the biggest challenge is trying to reinvent and grow

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Speaker 3: the company, which you know, one of the things with Ted,

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Speaker 3: which was great training for me and I knew it

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Speaker 3: when I took the job, was all right, you know,

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Speaker 3: my job is to grow earnings. Right, Scale doesn't matter, profitless,

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Speaker 3: volume doesn't matter, growing earnings.

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Speaker 2: Because he's an investor.

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Speaker 3: He's an investor, and so how to grow ibadah is

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Speaker 3: was the thing that you know, we got trained in

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Speaker 3: and measured, but ironically, you know the one thing that

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Speaker 3: I learned a long time although I going back to

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Speaker 3: Portman when I made a huge mistake, I used to

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Speaker 3: criticize people for not having a plan. When I went

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Speaker 3: ran my first business, I didn't have a plan. I

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Speaker 3: got really taken to the woodshed on that. I said,

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Speaker 3: I'll never run a business without a plan. And so

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Speaker 3: how's a guy that you know his wife taught him

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Speaker 3: how to drive a six shift, run NASCAR and set

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Speaker 3: rules and so forth. Because that I was a very

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Speaker 3: big three year plan guy. So we had to write

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Speaker 3: a business plan and you checked in on a business

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Speaker 3: plan a month on strategy and numbers. And when what

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Speaker 3: happened NASCAR, Bill Frantz is like, you know what, it's

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Speaker 3: working pretty good on the commercial side. Why don't we

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Speaker 3: take this discipline and put it over to the core business.

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Speaker 3: And that's what got me on the racing side from

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Speaker 3: just the commercial side, and that has served me well.

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Speaker 3: It served me really well working for TED because I

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Speaker 3: have a very diligent planning strategy. It's not I look

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Speaker 3: at it this way like numbers are like your blood pressure,

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Speaker 3: cholesterol or whatever. They'll tell you what's right or wrong

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Speaker 3: with the business, but they're not going to solve it. It's

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Speaker 3: the strategy drives the numbers. The numbers can firm the strategy.

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Speaker 3: I always been a big believer in that. Even yesterday

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Speaker 3: I was in a staff meeting. I'm like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 3: you know, let's make sure we have a collaborative approach

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Speaker 3: with our companies and just someone doesn't show up in

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Speaker 3: December and presents me a business plan. Let's start now

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Speaker 3: digging in with people and let's go through the drafting

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Speaker 3: of it. So I found that working with people, developing

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Speaker 3: a strategy and then having the numbers check the strategy

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Speaker 3: has really worked well for me for thirty years. I

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Speaker 3: learned that at Portman. Actually, so I.

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Speaker 4: Specifically on IMG you said one of the things you

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Speaker 4: were looking to do from Teddy's kind of from the top.

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Speaker 5: Is grow ibadat right.

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Speaker 4: Maybe one or two examples of what strategy did you

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Speaker 4: take and how did you move that number in the

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Speaker 4: right direction.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, one of the ones I'm really happy

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Speaker 3: about is IMG Academy. When you take about IMG Academy

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Speaker 3: was they were really great at training athletes, the lead athletes,

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Speaker 3: you know, Kobe Bryant, Serena Williams, Maria shrup of a

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Speaker 3: really great athletes had been through there, but for thirty

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Speaker 3: years it had never been profitable. Right, So I put

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Speaker 3: in a guy today who's at the Barclay Center and

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Speaker 3: running the Nets. Sam's ustman. He was well educated, he

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Speaker 3: went to Stanford Business School, Tel Aviv Law School. Sam

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Speaker 3: came in as my chief of staff and I put

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Speaker 3: him in to run IMS Academy. And Sam's a brilliant guy,

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Speaker 3: but he had worked at McKinsey in yield management and

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Speaker 3: running a sports academy is like running a hotel or

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Speaker 3: in Sam's case, understanding the yield management in the airline industry.

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Speaker 3: So we took IMG from not being very profitable too

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Speaker 3: profitable in a very short amount of time, turning it

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Speaker 3: into more of a place where you could go to

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Speaker 3: go to college versus where we're going to get the

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Speaker 3: next Maria Sharapova. And I was really proud of that.

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Speaker 3: We bought this amazing IMG Academy just SILD for I

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Speaker 3: think roughly one point two billion dollars, like ten or

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Speaker 3: eleven years ago. We bought forty percent. We only owned

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Speaker 3: sixty percent of it when I got there. We bought

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Speaker 3: forty percent of IMG Academy for six million dollars and

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Speaker 3: a two year payment plan. And it was hard because

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Speaker 3: we did it during like nine and you know, cash

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Speaker 3: we were managing cash tight. I had to go to

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Speaker 3: the wall. That was like moving a mountain to get

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Speaker 3: six million dollars to buy forty percent of the academy.

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Speaker 3: They never been profitable for but you know, recently just

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Speaker 3: SILD for like one point two billion dollars. So anyway,

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Speaker 3: so that's one. And then you know, we had a

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Speaker 3: lot of fun building the college business. We'd never been

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Speaker 3: in college. And one thing I learned from Ted which

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Speaker 3: served me well today, was we had to go around

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Speaker 3: and find places to grow earnings that didn't exist. And

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Speaker 3: so we did this. We looked, I looked at everything.

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Speaker 3: We looked at all these different sports. And I had

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Speaker 3: one of my buddies who used to be my CMO

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Speaker 3: at NASCAR. I started getting these numbers on college sports.

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Speaker 3: It was like one hundred and ninety million fans number

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Speaker 3: one with young people, ethnically diverse, a wealthier audience than golf. Right,

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Speaker 3: think about most CEOs went to college, right and gender neutral.

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Speaker 3: I call my guy, I said, his name's Roger Vandersink,

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Speaker 3: he's at the colts now, I said, Roger, I go,

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Speaker 3: where did these numbers come from? He goes, oh, George,

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Speaker 3: we never compared ourselves to college sports, and so we

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Speaker 3: made investments in college sports and it turned out to

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Speaker 3: be a real at IMG, I'm a real growth engine

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Speaker 3: for us, and that was probably in two thousand and ten,

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Speaker 3: and we were the first really guys that got the

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Speaker 3: ball moving there.

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Speaker 2: What does that look like when you're investing into college sports,

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Speaker 2: Like so many things that you've done, they seem so

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Speaker 2: obvious now, but they were not obvious at the time.

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Speaker 2: So how did you invest in college Well, so the

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Speaker 2: idea was I took a look at those numbers. I

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Speaker 2: was a gas, right, and then you start looking at

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Speaker 2: our Take Atlanta. You have the Atlanta Falcons and the

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Speaker 2: Georgia Bulldogs. Now we lived in Atlanta, so you know, like,

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Speaker 2: who's more popular, truthfully the Georgia Bulldogs, it's not really,

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Speaker 2: it's not close.

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Speaker 3: And so like when you look at all, right, what

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Speaker 3: revenue does the Falcons generate and what revenue does the Bulldogs?

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Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, the Falcon's away up here

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Speaker 3: and the Bulldogs are down there. So I'm not the

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Speaker 3: smartest guy, but I was like, you know what I

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Speaker 3: want to do, I'm going with those guys and we

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Speaker 3: should be and try to sell sell like the like

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Speaker 3: the Falcons, And so we had. It was a big restructuring.

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Speaker 3: I mean we I think we had. Unfortunately, we had

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Speaker 3: a reploy had four hundred salespeople replaced three hundred and

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Speaker 3: eighteen months, and so you had it was you had

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Speaker 3: to replace people because you were selling differently. We wanted

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Speaker 3: to sell like the Falcons, not like the Bulldogs, and

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Speaker 3: we had to go out and get guys from the

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Speaker 3: other leagues to come in and help us.

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Speaker 4: You know, Georgia, I'm sorry you lost me a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Take me step back. So you're invested in to the Bulldogs,

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Speaker 4: the Georgia Bulldogs, But what does that mean. I mean

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Speaker 4: that you're managing sponsorships or you're investing into the university

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Speaker 4: walking through that.

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Speaker 3: So there were companies, small companies at the time that

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Speaker 3: had the marketing rights to these companies, and what we

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Speaker 3: did is we rolled them up and when we left

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Speaker 3: were representing eighty five universities WOW on sponsorship and local

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Speaker 3: media rights, and then two hundred universities in licensing.

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Speaker 2: So you were repping the schools and essentially replacing an

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Speaker 2: infrastructure that was probably like local or regional right like.

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Speaker 3: We were trying to That was kind of the whole,

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Speaker 3: ye whole, So your point makes sense now, But transformation

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Speaker 3: at that time, Oh yeah, go ahead of the cur

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Speaker 3: that was the big driver of growth during the IMG time.

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00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,879
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00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,479
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Speaker 2: dot com slash Bloomberg Podcast Today. It's really interesting to

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Speaker 2: think about that sort of trifectave experiences. But what were

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Speaker 2: you seeing in the business of sports that you found

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Speaker 2: so compelling as you moved along.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you think about sports anywhere in the world,

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Speaker 3: it's the only thing that aggregates hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 3: people together around something as a statement of who you

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Speaker 3: are and what you stand for. So that connection, which

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Speaker 3: at NASCAR, those fans were loyal in college is you're

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Speaker 3: loyal Yankees fan, very loyal, and so what you really

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Speaker 3: want to do is try and tap into that loyalty

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Speaker 3: that's unmatched. And you know, in this world now where

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Speaker 3: media consumption is fragmented, there are very few things that

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Speaker 3: pull people together, right, And then when you think about

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Speaker 3: all these new devices that can deliver content, you're really

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Speaker 3: tapping into the consumer. I look at sports today like

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Speaker 3: in a fragmented world, sports become more valuable. And where

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Speaker 3: I think sports is going is this whole concept of

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Speaker 3: the lifetime value of the consumer, right, because really it's

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Speaker 3: a one to one relationship and I'm going to you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm a Yankees fan. I want Yankees content. I want

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Speaker 3: to know everything about the New York Yankees. And having

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Speaker 3: that one to one relationship might give me permission to

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Speaker 3: suggest products and services that are relevant, you know, to

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Speaker 3: the Yankees. And by the way, you can take that

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Speaker 3: to Europe. It's the same thing in any of those

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Speaker 3: football clubs or leagues. It's the passion of sports and

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Speaker 3: that one to one connection that's unlike anything else and

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Speaker 3: will become more valuable because the media and the way

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Speaker 3: we communicate so much more fragmented today than it was

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Speaker 3: ten years ago.

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Speaker 2: So take us through, you know, arguably the biggest sort

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Speaker 2: of personal deal you make, which is you've been working

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Speaker 2: for these like big companies. You've had these incredible, like

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Speaker 2: iconic business figures you've worked for, and then you decide like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do my own thing, and not just

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do my own thing, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to move from being an operator to being an investor.

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Speaker 2: Like what's that thought process?

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Speaker 3: Like the thought process was you had success in growing

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Speaker 3: earnings and I could now apply this to a different

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Speaker 3: area for myself. And I think we had talked a

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Speaker 3: little bit about you know, the transitions. You know, when

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Speaker 3: you're in a company, it's political, and I wanted to

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Speaker 3: have a more horizontal, entrepreneur, results oriented kind of situation.

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Speaker 3: So that was appealing to me. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: was forty eight years old, and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: if i'm forty years old, i fail, you know, I'll

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Speaker 3: be fifty two or fifty three and I'll come back

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Speaker 3: and take a job. Right But I said, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to wait till i'm sixty to take my shot.

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Speaker 3: I was like, it's the age always meant a lot

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Speaker 3: to me. You know, I was forty years old at NASCAR.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, do I see myself here? Twenty years old?

433
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 3: I want to take a shot at something else. You know,

434
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 3: I'm forty eight years old. You know, now's the time

435
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 3: to take a shot. I'm twenty five, I'm going to

436
00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 3: move away from home. I have no money, so what

437
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 3: if I feel like can always move back home again? Right,

438
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 3: So like I'm forty years old, it's time to take

439
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 3: a shot now. It was a big difference. You know,

440
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 3: I'm in the one hundred and eighty eight dollars a

441
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 3: square foot forty fourth floor of the GM building with

442
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 3: all the great trappings, and you know, I'm in white

443
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 3: planes at the Regis temporary office. I didn't even have

444
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 3: a secretary. I mean I had, I didn't everyone to

445
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 3: answer the phone. So really, literally was that journey. And

446
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 3: I have to say, forty years old, it was nice

447
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 3: to know that I was still that scrappy, you know

448
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 3: that I still I still could get in there and go.

449
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 3: And we built this thing from nothing, right, and we

450
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 3: built it up, and yeah we're you look at Bruin today.

451
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 3: We operate in seventy one countries. We have people on

452
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: the ground in twenty countries. You know, we work with

453
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 3: every major League of federation in the world. And you know,

454
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 3: I literally started from regis temporary office in White Plans,

455
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 3: New York.

456
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 4: So, George, let's go back to when you were forty

457
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 4: eight you said you want to take your shot. Now

458
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 4: you talked about a three year plan. Walk us through

459
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 4: your three year plan. How much are you raising, what

460
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 4: are you trying to invest in? And there's for in

461
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 4: laymans terms for viewers and listeners who don't know much

462
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 4: about brow and walk us through that a little bit.

463
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what the idea was was to invest in

464
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 3: things that were very similar to the businesses that we built.

465
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 3: You know, NASCAR, we came in, there were four people

466
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 3: in the commercial division. When we left, there were hundreds.

467
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 3: I don't know how many, but a lot of people, right,

468
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 3: And so we built a media capability, We built a

469
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: pure capability under scrutiny, you know, we built a sponsorship capability,

470
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 3: a licensing capability, of marketing capability. Right then and then

471
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 3: at IMG we're in thirty countries or in wide ranges

472
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: of sports. We had to do a lot of restructuring,

473
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 3: which I hadn't done a lot of NASCAR was more

474
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 3: organic growth, and IMG was restructuring and then investing right

475
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 3: working for a demanding guy who was really quite bright.

476
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: So the idea was I did good at that for

477
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 3: other people. You know. I had a friend of mine

478
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 3: and said, hey, why don't you do it for yourself

479
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 3: and your partners? I said, well, how do you do that?

480
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: He goes, I'll help you do it, and you know,

481
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 3: here we are.

482
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: Can you tell us who that friend was?

483
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 3: Cave Cars thro Shi at Allen Company. Cave was like,

484
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 3: in the day that it was announced that Endeavor was

485
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 3: buying IMG, called me up. He said that you're ready

486
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 3: to go yet, And of course I wasn't ready at

487
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 3: the time, but he you know, I had been I

488
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: knew IMG was going to sell, and so I had

489
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 3: to think about, like what do I want to do?

490
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: What's the next step for me? And so I had

491
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 3: been thinking about this probably two years prior to the sale,

492
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: and Cavet was like, hey, man, you got to do it.

493
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 3: And I was, you know, first of all, when you

494
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 3: were at least I and I work, I loved the company.

495
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 3: So it's always hard to lead like when I left NASCAR,

496
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 3: I cried right, and it's like it's hard leaving these

497
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 3: places when you give everything you have. But it was

498
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: just an itch I needed to scratch. Whatever that was

499
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 3: saying is.

500
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 4: So, George, I want to go back to when you

501
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 4: were forty eight. I'm forty nine, so I'm obsessed to

502
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 4: this time of your time.

503
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 3: There.

504
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 5: There's nothing harder than raising a first time fund.

505
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 4: You're an entrepreneur, you're an operator, but you haven't really

506
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 4: raised a lot of capital at that point.

507
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 5: A how scary is it?

508
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 4: How big of a fund were you trying to raise,

509
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 4: and how difficult was it for you or how easy

510
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 4: was it for you to raise that money?

511
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 3: Well, by the way, it was a lot harder. It's

512
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 3: a lot harder than I realized when I started. I

513
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: was lucky that my friend Cave essentially went to his

514
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 3: clients and said, believe in this guy. And if it

515
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 3: wasn't for Cave, I would not have I wouldn't be

516
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: sitting here right now. And if I knew how hard

517
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: it was to raise money, I think stupidity in this

518
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 3: case was a real asset for me. And if I

519
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: knew how hard it was, I probably wouldn't have done it,

520
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 3: but uh, but having surrounding myself with good people and

521
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 3: uh and people that believed in me. You know, Cave

522
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 3: really delivered. And I have to think you know Martin

523
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: Cerell too. Martin Crell is the CEO of w PP,

524
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: and he came up to me and said, hey, I'm

525
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: in for a third of the raise as w PP,

526
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 3: no matter what the amount of money. Wow, you raised it.

527
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: And of course, of course for me that was helpful

528
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: in the race. So between you know, Martin Cerell and Cave,

529
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: those two guys really, you know, meaningful. And you can

530
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: hear my voice, I'm very appreciative of those two people,

531
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 3: you know, to this very day.

532
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 5: How much was it I'm going to take here.

533
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 3: It didn't take very long. It was like six or

534
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 3: nine months and we raised two hundred and fifty million. Nice, Holy,

535
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 3: so amazing. Well, you know, Alex, you transitioned from you know,

536
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: really probably as well as anyone. I know. What was

537
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: it like transitioning from being a successful athlete to being

538
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,360
Speaker 3: a successful entrepreneur? And how are you able to Why

539
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: do you think you're able to do that? Because you've

540
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 3: done amazing?

541
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 5: Thank you, George.

542
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 4: You know, First of all, I think I've had some

543
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 4: incredible mentors, you know, starting with George Steinbrener. So watching

544
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 4: George Steinbrenner execute what I call VCP that he had

545
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 4: the vision hit the capitol and he has great people,

546
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 4: and those people have been there for north of twenty

547
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 4: five years, so continuity was really important. I saw there

548
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 4: was a great arbitrage in people and duration of those people.

549
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 4: When I thought about my career, I said, well, if

550
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 4: I can surround myself with the best people and take

551
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 4: a forty or fifty year outlook in my business versus

552
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 4: my competition was about the next five months or the

553
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: next year, more transactional, I felt that was something that

554
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 4: was really good. And then kind of staying in my

555
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 4: circle of competence sports and real estate is what I

556
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: know best, and I'm pretty dangerous in those spots, and

557
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 4: I'm pretty like I don't know much about much else

558
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 4: after that, and I just try to stay in those

559
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 4: two places, bring in the best people, and just you know,

560
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 4: run the heck out of these companies and do the

561
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 4: best I could.

562
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 3: Well it's amazing. I think it's amazing what we did

563
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 3: in baseball, obviously, but I think the real estate, and yeah,

564
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 3: what you've done in business is more amazing because there

565
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: are a lot of amazing baseball players and athletes out there,

566
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: but there aren't people that were the best at the

567
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 3: athlete and being able to transition and do what you've

568
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: done in business. So congrats man, thank you. Because I've

569
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: been around this thing a long time.

570
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've seen it not go that way. And so

571
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: one of the things that's so interesting, and we sort

572
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: of alluded to this at the top, is you're getting

573
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: into the sports ecosystem, which again seems so obvious now.

574
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: And listen, we look around. We see all these funds

575
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 2: that have been created. We see your friend Roger Goodell

576
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 2: at the NFL like embracing private equity, which we never

577
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: thought might happen. But you clearly saw something from an

578
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: investment perspective in the broader ecosystem early. What was it, Well.

579
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: You know what I saw with TED and IMG. Ted

580
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 3: was early an early adapter. Maybe there's one or two

581
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: others where he invested. He was a private equity guy

582
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 3: that invested in IMG. Yeah, which at the time was

583
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: unheard of and somewhat controversial. And what I saw was

584
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: if you could deploy capital against good ideas and sports

585
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: you could get great results. And so the idea was, Okay,

586
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: we've done that a few times at IMG ted deployed capital.

587
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 3: We deployed capital and got great results. You know, now

588
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: we can do you can do this on your own.

589
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 2: And you're thinking of like IMG Academy, like specific initiative.

590
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: IMG College or other businesses that we bought along the

591
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: way and saying, hey, we had a lot of success

592
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: with that. You know, there's more opportunity here. And of course,

593
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: you know when you kind of look back on me, now,

594
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: what was unique was IMG was in thirty countries, and

595
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: so we have a globe at Bruin, we have a

596
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: global network. You know, we have fourteen Bruined advisors, many

597
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: guys who had work with me at IMG, some people

598
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: who compete with me at im G or now brew

599
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 3: an advisor. So we have a global network. And sports

600
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 3: there are investment opportunities literally in sports all around, all

601
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: around the world. So when you look at it from

602
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: a global standpoint or international and so there's a there's

603
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: a big world out there.

604
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is you're not buying teams, or at

605
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: least not yet. You have you know, really invested it again,

606
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: I'm over using this, but like in the in the ecosystem,

607
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: in some of the adjacencies. So what's the underlying theory there.

608
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 3: Well, I think when you look at lower middle market,

609
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 3: private equity traditionally has huge growth potential and you can

610
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 3: take these businesses and really grow them. And so when

611
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 3: we come in there, we're able to We've been through

612
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: this now, we've we've experienced growing companies now brewing a

613
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: fair amount. So we go into these middle market companies

614
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: at you know, one stage and can add a lot

615
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: of operational expertise and then obviously with our network now

616
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: we open up markets and we can take these companies

617
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: around the world that you know, quite honestly, they couldn't

618
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: do it on their own. An example would be Delta Trade.

619
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: When we acquired Delta Tree and had no US business.

620
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: When we sold Delta Tree, half the business was was us.

621
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: What does that company? They do? Webs apps and streaming

622
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: and so you know, when you look at you look

623
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: at us, we're able to open up new markets, whether

624
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 3: it be you know, I said, we do business in

625
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: seventy one countries, but we're big in Europe, we're big

626
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 3: in the United States, and we have a big presence

627
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 3: in Australia and we're able to cross sell, so that's

628
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: a real value add on opening markets. And then you know,

629
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 3: we have a team of people that really work in

630
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: operations and I'm an operator, right, so like, you know,

631
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: we're still I'm still pretty hands on, you know, I was.

632
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: I was talking to a CEO yesterday. We had a problem,

633
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: and I'm a little I'm a little more polished than

634
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 3: they used to be. But h we had a pretty

635
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: substantial problem, and I, you know, knowld ME might have

636
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: been a little more progressive. I was like, look, you know,

637
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 3: you got a great business and doing great things. And

638
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: then I said, look, I've made a lot of mistakes

639
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: and here's a list of all my mistakes. So let's

640
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: be honest with one another. Let's work to figure it out.

641
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: Our guys like that. So if you talk to our CEOs,

642
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: we do because they're our best sales. When we buy

643
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 3: a company, like, they're happy. And it's quite different than

644
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: other forms of private equity because typically because the people

645
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: that lead the deals or deal guys, they're not subject

646
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: matter experts. So like when you do something with us,

647
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: there are no boards, there are no committees, Like, we

648
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: actually know what we're doing now. I have it the

649
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 3: advisors and experts, but we have people that actually have

650
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 3: done it, right, not somebody like I know two people

651
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: that used to do it. So they're gonna whisper in

652
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: my ear and I'm gonna they're gonna tell me what

653
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 3: to do. Like, we know what we're doing, and we're not.

654
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: We're not doing healthcare, we're not doing these that we're

655
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: doing sports and media and entertainment.

656
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 4: So George talking about Brun, if Jason was selling you

657
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: on a pitch, right, walk us through what is the

658
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 4: perfect what I call the two oh fastball right down

659
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: the meadow for Brun meaning here's a space and we

660
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 4: can make it up. Here's the earnings, here's the ibadah,

661
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: and walk us to what excites you about that and

662
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: how you think about growing and helping Jason as a found.

663
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it would be if somebody earning ten or

664
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: twenty million of EBITDA right that you know we've invested

665
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: mostly in technology, not always well why technology, because the

666
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: growth fundamentals are in technologies. Right. So occasionally we'll see

667
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: things on location proof in the putting, we'll see a

668
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: few things along the way where we think through our

669
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 3: expertise we can add a lot but most of its technology.

670
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: So it would be probably a check or data related

671
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: company that had on its own great growth fundamentals and

672
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 3: really you really like the CEO. And what the lens

673
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: I always look through is can this company grow or

674
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: not on its own? And if I don't believe in

675
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: the growth, we can't touch it. Then the other lens

676
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: we look at is through our network, can we add value?

677
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: And it's important because if you have a great investment,

678
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: then we can make it even better. And if, by chance,

679
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: which happens, we're wrong, we can prop it up.

680
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: Okay, So in this case, Jason's company is throwing off

681
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: ten minutes dollars of ibadah most of a free cash flow.

682
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 5: He wants ten times, you want five times. How do

683
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 5: you land on?

684
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: Like?

685
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 5: Is it seven and a half?

686
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: Is it six?

687
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 4: Obviously depends on the growth trajectory. Walk us a little

688
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: bit through how you think about it? Yeah, well I

689
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 4: like this company.

690
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: This is great.

691
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: You're just doing the number. Yeah, exactly. Well, usually there's

692
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: a there's a margin of what what the multiple is.

693
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: Now I will say for us, like, we don't want

694
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 3: to be with someone who if it's all about I

695
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: want to get the last nickel. Ironically and thankfully most

696
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: a lot. I think you know, more than half our

697
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: deals are one on one deals where people have just

698
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: sought us out. There's not really a process because if

699
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: you think about it, if you do your diligence on us,

700
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: and you're a founder, like we're quite compelling if who

701
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 3: you sell to matters, right, because like I've worked my

702
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: whole life, I've built this company up, and now you know,

703
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: I want to take a little cash off the table

704
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: and I'm probably going to take more risk because we'll

705
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: deploy CAW to do acquisitions, we'll open up markets, and

706
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 3: of course we're going to be pushing for growth. So

707
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: then if you're a founder like, well, who do I

708
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: want to do that with the guy who said listed

709
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: all his mistakes when someoneent wrong before we get into

710
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: what went wrong, or somebody who's highly educated wagging their

711
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: finger at you that's never run a business, And that's

712
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: really where So that with our discussions not so much

713
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: about the multiples, it's about hey, do we culturally agree?

714
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: And I always tell the guys because I am a

715
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 3: bit of a salesman like, I'm not and I don't

716
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: want to sell it. I'm not selling anything. Like once

717
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: we acquire your company, we can never part ways, so

718
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: I don't want to convince you to do something you're

719
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 3: going to do. So I'm always like, hey, if we

720
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: buy a company, these are the expectations. Are you comfortable

721
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 3: with it? And if you're comfortable with it, this is

722
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 3: how we roll. And you know that's kind of how

723
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: it works. So we don't the price thing. You know

724
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: that there's a range of the price. We're going to

725
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 3: pay a fair value whatever that might be. But if

726
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 3: you're about the last nickel, it's probably not a guy

727
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: that I want to spend the next X amount of

728
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: years with.

729
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: I'm not about the last night. I'm not about it

730
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: the last night.

731
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: I'm Mike.

732
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give it back to you. But it sounds

733
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 4: a lot like the Berkshire Hathaway. Yeah, Charlie Munger Wander.

734
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: One of the areas obviously very near and dear to

735
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: us is the media world. You know, we're sitting here

736
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: on our podcast. You invested in Box to Box, I

737
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: believe not too long ago, which we I mean everyone,

738
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: I'm guessing listening to or watching this show has consumed

739
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: something that Box to Box made, especially Drive to Survive,

740
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 2: which I feel like revolutionized the way we think about

741
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: sports and sports media. Talk to us about that deal,

742
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 2: how it came about.

743
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: What you saw at this moment with that deal, Well,

744
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: a couple of things. I see two great CEOs, James

745
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: and Paul are very talented people. I have a good

746
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 3: friend of mine, David Hill, who used to run Fox Sports,

747
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: and I called Dave and he raved about them. It

748
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 3: meant a lot to me. And then their product is

749
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: really good. They do drives in full swing. They do

750
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 3: kind of the behind the scenes for sports, you know,

751
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 3: around the world. They're a market leader, and they fit

752
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 3: well with us because they're they're global, right. We're helping,

753
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: you know, we've been able to add some relationships and

754
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 3: contacts with them as well. But I felt like I

755
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: always wanted to get in media if I could find

756
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: a smart way to do it, and where we see

757
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 3: growth for them. You know, they podcast short form media.

758
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 3: They haven't really done they haven't invested capital, they've never

759
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: taken risk on the deal, they've never done acquisitions. I

760
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 3: think there's opportunities for branding content so we saw four

761
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 3: or five things that we think we could add, but

762
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 3: again we were it was guys we believed in and

763
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: guys we felt like we could add add something to

764
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: In terms of a few client doors for them. They

765
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: don't need too many because they're very global themselves. But

766
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 3: they're great at what they do. And I love being

767
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 3: with them because you get on a phone with them

768
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: and like zoom, and they want to be great. I mean,

769
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 3: I'll give you a little example. So one of the things,

770
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 3: you know, my companies are very under leveraged. It's good

771
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: in one way, but we have to be a little

772
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 3: better at that. And so we put brought all our

773
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: companies together in London, and I brought in an expert

774
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 3: on debt because I'll never I don't I learned a

775
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: long time ago making adults do things they don't want

776
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 3: to do probably not going to work out too good

777
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 3: for you. So I brought in this expert on capital

778
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: markets and had them talk to the companies and these

779
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: guys like embrace it and we just got our first

780
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 3: credit facility for the company. But it was because they

781
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 3: were interested and as I say, the guys, look, we're

782
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 3: not going to lever it up will below lower leverage

783
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: than everybody else, but let's be the best we can be,

784
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 3: and they want to be the best they can be.

785
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 3: And it was kind of a new area. So like,

786
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 3: that's somebody that wants to be great at everything they do.

787
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 3: They want to embrace new things and they're just hungry

788
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 3: and they're really are and creative. So I'm really happy

789
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: with those guys.

790
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 2: And so what is it So when you're assessing when

791
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: you're getting to know as CEO or a founder, like,

792
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: what's that process like? Because I know you to be

793
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: like incredibly personable, very humble, great family man. What's your vibe? Like,

794
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: how are you getting.

795
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 3: To know someone? Well? You got to often you go

796
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 3: to dinner with them and try to socialize. And what

797
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: I'm really trying to decide is is the person driven?

798
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: What's the team?

799
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: Like?

800
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 3: Do I believe in the growth fundamentals of that business?

801
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 3: And if I believe the growth fundamentals of the business

802
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: and I really believe in the CEO, then it's you know,

803
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 3: it feels good? And can I add value? Can we

804
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: can we add value? If we don't? If we can't

805
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: add value, then all we are is placing a bet

806
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: on something and I'm not. I'm not a better I

807
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 3: got to know, like I can add value to something

808
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: great or if it goes wrong, can I add value?

809
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: I want to go back to college sports if we can.

810
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 2: Because one of the really interesting things about you I'm

811
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: totally like taking advantage of, like knowing a lot about

812
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: you I'm here is that you obviously you know, have

813
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: been involved with college sports from a business perspective, but

814
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: also as a dad. Your son Drew is a very

815
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: successful quarterback on the college level. I do wonder like

816
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: being able to wear those different hats. What's your perspective

817
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: on sort of college sports at this moment, because it

818
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: feels like such a revolutionary and kindidly like sort of

819
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 2: fraught moment for college sports. How does it feel to you?

820
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's going through change, right, it's going

821
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: through change because it's very successful, and it's so successful

822
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 3: that the money became so significant that you know you

823
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: have to share it with the players. I mean, you know,

824
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: when you think about the college football playoff game, one

825
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: game eighty four million dollars in meteorites before all the

826
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: other things. If you have eighty thousand people paying one

827
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 3: hundred bucks a ticket and all the concessions.

828
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one game is worth eighty four million million dollars.

829
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 3: Do you think for two or three hour game? Three

830
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 3: hour game, If that game's generating over one hundred million

831
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 3: dollars for three hours, don't you think the guys on

832
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 3: the field should participate? I estimated to be six to

833
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 3: eight billion dollars a year generating college sports. Shouldn't the

834
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 3: play people that are on the field at play. And

835
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 3: so what's happened is the courts used to be deferential

836
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: to the college model, but in this amount of revenue,

837
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: the courts have now sided with the players. And so

838
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: you're going to have to change. And by the way,

839
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 3: change isn't easy, and it's hard in college because nobody's

840
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: in charge. There's you know, everyone's their own independent person.

841
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 3: If you know, USC and UCLA were part of a

842
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 3: conference till they weren't right, right, So you have a

843
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 3: bunch of competitors that work for their self interest. And

844
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 3: so with no one in charge in a highly successful industry,

845
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 3: you're going to have a little bit of turbulence. But

846
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: I think at the end of the day, it'll all

847
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: work itself out. You know, we went through all this

848
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: with the Olympics, right, Oh, we shouldn't play the athletes,

849
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 3: So we shouldn't play the athletes. Boy, I thought the

850
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: Paris Olympics were amazing, unbelieva right, So like, and those

851
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: are everyone's making money, No, nobody cares. In five or

852
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 3: ten years from now, this thing will you know, make

853
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: its way through. And you know, I have a little

854
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 3: bit of laughter about this because I you know, semi

855
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 3: knowledgele on football and my family's been playing college football

856
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: for over one hundred years. You know, those playoff games

857
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 3: last year Michigan and Alabama, you know it went down

858
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: to the last play. Yeah, right, Like the product on

859
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 3: the field pretty good. Yeah, So all this talk about

860
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: yeah you're gonna blow it's the Florida State game was

861
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 3: a blowout and then whatever bullet was. But so what

862
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 3: there are always blows but those playoffs yeah amazing. So

863
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: like the off field stuff of how what the player

864
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 3: movement is, do the players get paid? It'll get figured

865
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 3: out and it won't be easy.

866
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: I mean. One of the things that I know, Alex

867
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: and I both admire about you and have watched over

868
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 2: the years in various venues, some of which you've been

869
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: you know, the convenor of you know everyone, I mean,

870
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: you really have like cultivated and unbelievable that there's no

871
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: one that I talked to in sports who's more than

872
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: like two degrees and often one degree away from you.

873
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: Is that purposeful? Like, what's the what's the method to that?

874
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: Well? I think a couple of things. There's a little

875
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 3: bit of a track record, right, NASCAR was a good job, right,

876
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: and then at IMG a lot of people we were

877
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 3: their clients. But I think truthfully, you know, like an

878
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: old shoe, you know, if you're around long enough and

879
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 3: you're a good person and you deliver results and you

880
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 3: do what you say you're going to do, you know,

881
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: it pays out for you. Now everyone's got their angle, right,

882
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 3: that's my angle, you know if I tell you, and

883
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: I learned it from Bill Bill Frantz when he hired me,

884
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: because I got three things where you said, tell the truth,

885
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: work hard, don't embarrass the company. I'm still quoting it today, right, Yeah,

886
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 3: And I knew that if I told somebody and ask her,

887
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: we were going to do it. We were going to

888
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: do it. And so like that had an influence on me.

889
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: And even Ted was honorable and so to me. It's like, hey,

890
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 3: you know, tell someone you're going to do something, you

891
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 3: do it. Yeah, you try and do it in a

892
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 3: nice way. I try to emulate Roger Penske. I told

893
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 3: Roger I was with them this summer. I'm like, you know,

894
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 3: some of these guys had impact on me. You know,

895
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 3: So I think that is the basis from which you

896
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 3: build out trust and respect over decades, right, And that's

897
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 3: what you're seeing in the benefit. That's my stick. Doesn't

898
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: mean it's everybody's stick, but that's my stick.

899
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: And so, you know, one of the things that's fascinating

900
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: about you, George too, is that, like you're so tight

901
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: at the highest levels of all the major sports in

902
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 2: the US and abroad. You're one of the only people

903
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: I know who I feel like can call every commissioner

904
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: of every league and like, get on the phone. What

905
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 2: do you hear from those folks these days about sort

906
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: of the state of the sports leagues? Because obviously that

907
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 2: has a big direction in terms of your own investment

908
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: thesis of where things are going, Like take us inside,

909
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 2: some of those conversations.

910
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 3: Really have to be kind of bullish right now, because

911
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 3: when you look at the NBA to get two and

912
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 3: a half times on their media deal is really amazing.

913
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 3: Adam did an amazing job there. When you look at

914
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: the NFL with all the contracted television revenue, they have

915
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 3: really strong. NHL's got a long term deal, strong, Baseball's

916
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 3: doing well. Everyone seems to be doing I mean, NASCAR

917
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 3: did a great TV deal. Like all this stuff about

918
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 3: how the media is changing and the fragmentation, nevertheless, the

919
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 3: sports have held up really strong. So I don't know.

920
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 3: I think I think the big issue in sports today

921
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 3: is that you do see institutional investors coming into sports.

922
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: Capital is going to change the game. And so my

923
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 3: advice to someone is, hey, if I'm running a sports team,

924
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 3: I'm running a league in an organization, I need a

925
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: capital plan to differentiate myself from my competitor number one,

926
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: number two, I need a defensive capital plan. So whether

927
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 3: I want to act on it, I need I need

928
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 3: a phone call like, hey, if I'm if something's coming

929
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 3: in with capital is going to disrupt my sport, what

930
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 3: am I going to do about it? So I don't

931
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: think you can just sit back, maybe like you used to,

932
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 3: and say, well that's not for us. You have to

933
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: have a capital plan and look at golf. I mean,

934
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: I'm not going to make any commentary on what's good

935
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: or bad. But look, somebody with capital showed up and

936
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 3: the game changed. The other guy, I do he had

937
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 3: to go out and raise capital, right, and a lot

938
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 3: of it and a lot of it, and so like,

939
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: if you're in sports, whoever you are, you better have

940
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 3: a capital plan to go on offense and defense.

941
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting but I hadn't thought about it

942
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: exactly that way. But you know, you think about the NFL.

943
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: If private equity is going to come into you know,

944
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: even a half a dozen franchises, that doesn't just change

945
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: those franchises, It changes the other twenty six is what

946
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: like in terms of them, you know, having to figure

947
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: out what their plans are going to be in terms

948
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: of they're spending or.

949
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 3: Well, it's going to change it, right, So you're you know,

950
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 3: I think they've done a really good job of limiting

951
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: it right and making sure that you know that the

952
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: investors have really no say right, right, and so they're

953
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 3: not their life's not really changing for the NFL, but

954
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 3: they're benefiting from an influx of institutional capital into the industry.

955
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 3: That money is going to go to provide liquidity for

956
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 3: limited partners that might have had a hard time getting liquidity,

957
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 3: might solve some family issues on some of these teams

958
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 3: that are family owned. And it's going to provide capital

959
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: perhaps for real estate investment and reinvent in the franchise.

960
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 3: In lastly, it's going to increase the value of the

961
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 3: franchises because you have more bidders. So again, the institutional capital,

962
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: well controlled in this case, is changing the game, right

963
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 3: and so, and probably over time will change it more.

964
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 3: As you know better than I that other sports, the

965
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 3: number is higher than ten percent. And in order for

966
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 3: these franchises to keep growing and growing in value, you're

967
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: going to have to look at different outlets for capital.

968
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 3: I mean, to buy an NFL team, now you need

969
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 3: two three billion dollars. Ear gets a little thin, and

970
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 3: think about what rights you get. You know, if you're

971
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 3: one of the guys in the Commanders that put four

972
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 3: or five hundred million year for no rights, right, so

973
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 3: that's getting harder and harder.

974
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: That's a pretty expensive season ticket and it's a nice.

975
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 3: Problem to have, but you're the victim of your own success.

976
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: So you're going to have to understand the capital markets

977
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 3: and have a long term capital plan. But again, it's

978
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 3: all against the backdrop of success, right, everybody would love

979
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: to have these problems.

980
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: I think, all right, so let's do a quick rapid

981
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: fire around. So this is the only thing I'll say

982
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: is like, keep it tight. We'll bounce it back and forth.

983
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 2: What's one word to describe your deal making style?

984
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: Decisive?

985
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 4: What's more important to you your instant gut or data

986
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 4: instant gut.

987
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: Who's your dream deal making partner?

988
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: Someone's well capitalized and smart.

989
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal

990
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: making or business? No?

991
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 3: Whe to squeeze and when no, not to squeeze.

992
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 5: What's the worst piece of advice you ever received?

993
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. I didn't pay attention.

994
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 2: Do you have a hype song before you go into

995
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: a big meeting or negotiation?

996
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: No? But a good work. It's a good substitution.

997
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 5: If you can only watch one sport for the rest

998
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 5: of your.

999
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: Life, what's sport?

1000
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: What it be football? Football? American football?

1001
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 5: And what's your favorite team?

1002
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: Uh? Patriots? My dad play for the Patriots. I have

1003
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: to go for Patriots.

1004
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: What team do you want to see win a championship

1005
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: more than any?

1006
00:46:58,880 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 3: Missouri tires.

1007
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 5: There you go, go for your son answer.

1008
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 4: One fun fact about George Pine that if your colleague

1009
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 4: chart about it, they would be shocked.

1010
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: They're surprised I played the veal. O. Wow. Listen, this

1011
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: was really, really fun. I feel like it's decades in

1012
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: the making. So thank you so much for doing this.

1013
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 2: It's great to see you and great to be with you, guys.

1014
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the opportunity. Thanks, thanks, sure,

1015
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: thanks so much for listening to the Deal. If you

1016
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: never want to miss a story, become a Bloomberg dot

1017
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: com subscriber today. Check out our special intro offer right

1018
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: now at Bloomberg dot com Slash Podcast Offer or click

1019
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 2: the link in the show notes. You'll also unlock deep reporting,

1020
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 2: data and analysis from Bloomberg reporters all around the world.

1021
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.

1022
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly.

1023
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: Our producers are Anamazarakis, Stacey y Wong, Lizzie Phillip, and

1024
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: Victory Veyees. Original music and engineering by Blake Maples. Our

1025
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: managing editor is David E. Ravella. Our executive producers are

1026
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly Brendan, Francis Newnham, Jordan Opplinger, Trey Shallowhorn, Kyle Kramer,

1027
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: Andrew Barden, Kelly Laferrier, and Ashley Hoenig. Sage Bauman is

1028
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: our head of podcasts, Additional support from Rachel Scaramazzino and

1029
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: Elena Los Angeles. Joshua Devaux is our director of photography.

1030
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: Rubob Shakir is our creative director. Art direction is from

1031
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Kessler. Casting by Julia Manns. Our associate producer is

1032
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: Natasha Abelard. Camera operation by Ryan Cavtero, Jesse Ridner, and

1033
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: Suma Hussain. Our gaffer is Alex Brown, and our grip

1034
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: is Max Garstak. Our production assistant is Gabriella Demataes. Alex

1035
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: Diacanis is our video editor. Listen to the Deal on

1036
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You can

1037
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: also tune into The Video Companion on Bloomberg Originals and

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00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg TV. Thanks for listening.