WEBVTT - Robyn Grew on Portfolio Construction

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<v Speaker 1>This is Master's in Business with very Rid Holds on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio. This week on the podcast, another extra special guest,

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<v Speaker 1>Robin Grew, President of man Group one hundred and forty

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<v Speaker 1>five billion dollar publicly traded hedge funds in the UK

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<v Speaker 1>and soon to be Man Groups CEO. This is a

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating conversation about business growth and leadership and management, how

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<v Speaker 1>to run a team, how to recruit and retain the

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<v Speaker 1>best people, and how to use technology as a tool

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<v Speaker 1>to give you an edge not just in investing, but

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<v Speaker 1>in the ability to offer clients various solutions improving your efficiency,

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<v Speaker 1>effectiveness and productivity as a company. I found this to

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<v Speaker 1>just be a fascinating masterclass in running a giant financial organization,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think you will also so with no further ado,

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<v Speaker 1>my conversation with Man Groups incoming CEO, Robin Grew.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me, Barry.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been looking forward to this for a while and

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<v Speaker 1>when we first booked you you were like a junior analyst.

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<v Speaker 1>Then suddenly in the ensuing weeks you can get tagged

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<v Speaker 1>to be CEO. That has to be a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a surreal experience.

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<v Speaker 2>It is nothing short of surreal. This is obviously new

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<v Speaker 2>news for this particular podcast, and it is you hear

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<v Speaker 2>the words that people say, you know, it's an honor

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a privilege, and it sounds a little trite,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you find yourself in one of these rare

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<v Speaker 2>positions where somebody is asking you to take on the

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<v Speaker 2>CEO and I have to tell you I'm mean it

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<v Speaker 2>very authentically. It's an honor and it's a privilege, and

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<v Speaker 2>it is slightly surreal and.

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<v Speaker 1>For a little context, maybe for some of the audience

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<v Speaker 1>in America who may not be that familiar with Man Group.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't like a startup. This traces its roots back

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<v Speaker 1>to eighteenth century sugar trading. Right, how old is Man Group.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's two hundred and forty years old. Put it

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<v Speaker 2>that way, seventeen eighty three, and you're right. It traces

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<v Speaker 2>its way back to sugar trading and at one point

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<v Speaker 2>being the monopolistic supplier of rum to the Royal Navy,

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<v Speaker 2>which and in those days that was important because everybody

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<v Speaker 2>had a ration in the Royal Navy and everybody wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to use it. And it's the journey, isn't it. It's

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<v Speaker 2>the journey of organizations to continue to be relevant. So

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and forty years ago, it's a conversation I

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<v Speaker 2>have with people, which is, if we didn't keep changing,

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<v Speaker 2>we'd still be making barrels on the side of the

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<v Speaker 2>River Thames and trading sugar and hoping that the Royal

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<v Speaker 2>Navy still needed a lot of rum. So that's not

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<v Speaker 2>where we are today. But the routes are deep and

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<v Speaker 2>now we you know, we're just a shive one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and forty five billion dollars of assets under management across

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<v Speaker 2>the entire credit curve, trading through US and quant through

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<v Speaker 2>discretionary and private markets, reaching investors all over the world.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're going to spend a little more time delving

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<v Speaker 1>deep into man groups practice. Let's start with your background, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>which doesn't quite go back two hundred and seventy four.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much, Sam.

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<v Speaker 1>You went to law school. Were the plans to become

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<v Speaker 1>a solicitor or a barrister? That that's not the thought

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<v Speaker 1>process of someone who wants to go into find it.

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<v Speaker 2>You're spot on. I actually qualified as a barrister, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the fun words I went to the bar. People

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<v Speaker 2>use that all the time to describe me, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>right I had thought I was going to be an advocate,

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<v Speaker 2>quite frankly, a barrister, you know, the one with the

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<v Speaker 2>wigs and the gowns that you see on TV. My

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<v Speaker 2>roots were very or reasonably humble. My dad was a

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<v Speaker 2>public GP, you know, in the National Health Service in England,

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<v Speaker 2>and my mum was a public school teacher, and quite frankly,

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<v Speaker 2>I know what financial services was. It was this thing

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<v Speaker 2>that existed somewhere else. And so when I went to

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<v Speaker 2>law school and went to the bar, I had every

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<v Speaker 2>thought that I was just going to be a barrister

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<v Speaker 2>and be another vocational professional in my family.

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<v Speaker 1>When did it enter your mind that hey, this finance

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<v Speaker 1>stuff looks kind of interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>It entered my mind when very early on I found

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<v Speaker 2>myself in a position where I was looking at a

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<v Speaker 2>brief that had come to me, and it was yet

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<v Speaker 2>another sort of sketchy criminal defense, a piece where I

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<v Speaker 2>had to go and interview a client who had been

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<v Speaker 2>arrested because he had been out on bail and escaped bail.

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<v Speaker 2>And I went to a very old magistrates court in

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<v Speaker 2>London at Bow Street. It's very close to Covent Garden

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<v Speaker 2>and very old cells and the doors of these cells

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<v Speaker 2>were built for men, and you, Barry, you have the

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<v Speaker 2>you have the benefit of seeing how short I am

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<v Speaker 2>or talk five five foot nothing, And so I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>see through the little window. I just couldn't reach it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I just it wasn't apul So the guards and it

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<v Speaker 2>had to actually stay sort of open the door and

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<v Speaker 2>they had to stand either side of me, and they

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<v Speaker 2>were worried about me because my client was so out

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<v Speaker 2>of his head on whatever it was he had taken

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<v Speaker 2>that they were actually worried for my safety. And I

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<v Speaker 2>went home that night and I went, do you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>I might not want to do this forever. This might

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<v Speaker 2>not be this might not be a good idea. And

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, I know what I'll do. I will go

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<v Speaker 2>into commerce. That's what I thought. I will go into commerce,

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<v Speaker 2>or go into business, and then I will go back

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<v Speaker 2>and I will be a commercial barrister where they don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to get lists into cells and see whether and

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<v Speaker 2>be worried about the safety they have to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>people like me. Now, So that's what the plan was.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it was a plan to get into this space,

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<v Speaker 2>get experienced from being an insider in business, and go back.

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<v Speaker 2>And I got hooked. I just never went back.

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<v Speaker 1>What was the first job in commerce?

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<v Speaker 2>In commerce. So there was an advertisement in the newspaper.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a thing, that's how what I am. There was

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<v Speaker 2>an advertisement in a newspaper for Fidelity, and I thought, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that sounds interesting. They wanted they wanted to have new

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<v Speaker 2>kind of graduates, postgraduate type people to come and do

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<v Speaker 2>a round robin. And that's also expression that that gets

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<v Speaker 2>used with me a lot. And so I applied and

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<v Speaker 2>I sent in a letter and I said, yes, it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds terribly interesting. Can you give me a shot at this?

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<v Speaker 2>And I got invited to this interview thing. And it

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<v Speaker 2>was a thing because I turned up and there are

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty people in a room. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a Cata caul and totally new to me, and I

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<v Speaker 2>had no idea that this is what happened. So I

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<v Speaker 2>just chatted to everybody I met.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just chatting online while you're waiting to go for

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<v Speaker 1>the interview.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you're just you don't know when you're being

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<v Speaker 2>interviewed and when you're not being interviewed. Quite frankly, it

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<v Speaker 2>was one of the come and meet these people, and

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<v Speaker 2>it was I had a great time. I'm a chatty

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<v Speaker 2>kind of individual, and off I went round the room,

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<v Speaker 2>chatted for a couple of hours and then left and

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<v Speaker 2>drove home. And I was rung the next day and

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<v Speaker 2>they said, we really, really would would you like to

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<v Speaker 2>come and join us? And I said, yes, for sure,

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<v Speaker 2>let's do that then, and I bounced around. Yes. I

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<v Speaker 2>did some legal staff and reg staff, but I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I went in on the weekends when we did the

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<v Speaker 2>stock certificate count and counted share certificates. That it was

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<v Speaker 2>that long ago. I did early tech kind of pieces.

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<v Speaker 2>I manned client call phones, I did everything, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was a bit of a blast. It was this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of thing of being in the center of for delicious

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<v Speaker 2>brokerage arm at that point, not its asset management, it's

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<v Speaker 2>brokerage piece.

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<v Speaker 1>And then this is late eighties or early nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I was exactly and then I was called

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<v Speaker 2>into I was called in ninety one, so in that

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<v Speaker 2>nineties period, and then I was called by and by

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<v Speaker 2>a headhunter, by a recruiter who said, listen, there's this.

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<v Speaker 2>I spent a couple of years at Fidelity. By this time,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a role at this thing called life or Liffy, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And they really need somebody who understands a criminal law.

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<v Speaker 2>And they need it because when they conduct interviews, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's undertaken under this Police and Criminal eavendon Xact thing.

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<v Speaker 2>In other words, it's done in a way that whatever

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<v Speaker 2>is said in that interview could be brought as evidence

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<v Speaker 2>in a court. And I said, well, I know, I know,

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<v Speaker 2>I know that bit of it. I've done. I've done

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<v Speaker 2>that bit. And so I turned up to Life.

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<v Speaker 1>What was the commerce of Liffy.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's an exchange, it's an open outcry exchange. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>at that time the biggest open outcry exchange in Europe

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<v Speaker 2>and we had it was a time when Life was

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<v Speaker 2>biggest in the bund contract.

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<v Speaker 1>So I have to ask why the concern about future

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<v Speaker 1>criminal evidence? That seems sort of at odds.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, right. So what happens is when you work

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<v Speaker 2>in an open outcry environment, there are training practices that

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<v Speaker 2>get investigated. And those training practices are quite they're fun,

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<v Speaker 2>they're interesting, and they're complex because it's all about hand signals.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and everybody's word is their bond or their gesture.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And so you're looking at at that point very

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<v Speaker 2>forward thinking videotaped evidence. You've got pit observers, and you

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<v Speaker 2>are trying to piece if there are malpractices or going on.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to piece that all together. And so at

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<v Speaker 2>that point you are you are building a case. You

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<v Speaker 2>are running a market investigations team which is looking at

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<v Speaker 2>ensuring proper conduct. From a regulatory perspective, you are the regulator.

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<v Speaker 2>You are managing the efficacy of those markets and across

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<v Speaker 2>futures and options. And so I went to an interview

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<v Speaker 2>and they said how much do you know about futures

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<v Speaker 2>and options? And I said, not a lot. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, And there's a chat who I'm still in

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<v Speaker 2>touch with who repeats this at regular interviews. To my embarrassment,

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<v Speaker 2>he says, you said, you know a postage stamp and

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<v Speaker 2>you know really large writing. That's how much I know.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm a super quick learner, right and for good

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<v Speaker 2>and for bad and for my benefit, they hired me.

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<v Speaker 1>How long did you stay with Liffy Life?

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<v Speaker 2>A couple of years? Just over again. And then I

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<v Speaker 2>got another call. I know, this seems to be a process.

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<v Speaker 2>So I got a call, and this one was ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>from a recruiter who was working for Lehman Brothers, an

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<v Speaker 2>investment bank, a bond.

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<v Speaker 1>House, another one that's a few hundred years old.

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<v Speaker 2>And another one that was a few hundred years old,

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<v Speaker 2>again set set up by you know brothers and all

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of it. So and that was another conversation

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<v Speaker 2>where they were looking for somebody, quite frankly, who had

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of futures options style of experience, because they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted somebody to go and sit on a fixed income floor.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. I wanted to say, the criminal background turned out

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<v Speaker 1>not to hurt you.

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<v Speaker 2>No, thanks for that. We'll talk about that later, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So the sense of again another opportunity just sort of

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<v Speaker 2>thrown in my way. And as I joined Lehman Brothers,

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<v Speaker 2>it was the first time that Russia had had a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of a crisis. Andy eight correct, correct spot on.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was thrown at a Okay, we now need

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<v Speaker 2>to know what have we got in Russia, what's our exposure,

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<v Speaker 2>what our legal contracts? How does this work? And I

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<v Speaker 2>was one of many, many people, but talk about landing

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<v Speaker 2>and the rubber hitting the road, And at that point

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<v Speaker 2>Lehman share price had its first sort of crumbs moment,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was fascinating to just be in the inner

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<v Speaker 2>working baptisms of fire I sort of enjoy I shouldn't probably.

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<v Speaker 1>Was a phrase that popped into my head as soon

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<v Speaker 1>as you it is right.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a baptism of fire, and it was something

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<v Speaker 2>which was phenomenal to actually be part of. But for

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that you're living it, does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 2>It's as an academic exercise marvelous. When you're in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of it, you're kind of so caught in it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I ended up on working on the fixed income

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<v Speaker 2>floors until.

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<v Speaker 1>You're working in London, not in New York.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, working in London, and again the first time i'd

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<v Speaker 2>worked on the cell side, and that's where I sort

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.160
<v Speaker 2>of feel I had my biggest growth and my growing

0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.720
<v Speaker 2>up was in that Lehman Brothers phase. But in part

0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 2>because I again benefited from being in the mix. When

0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.920
<v Speaker 2>we were the second bank that was raided by the

0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.480
<v Speaker 2>Japanese regulators after they'd gone into credit Suee and the

0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Japanese regulators were having a tough time with cross collatoralization

0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and issues about whether there were balance sheet accounting issues.

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Is this how you ended up living in Tokyo? It

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.200
<v Speaker 1>is how long were you there?

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 2>For so well. For the year of that first year

0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.560
<v Speaker 2>of the investigation, I flew back and forth to London.

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.679
<v Speaker 2>This is becoming a theme with me flying back to

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.199
<v Speaker 2>Force London and then after that another two and a

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>half years where we actually lived in Japan. Fabulous.

0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Tokyo was supposed to be an amazing city.

0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 2>It's extraordinary and brilliant, And the things you learn when

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.600
<v Speaker 2>you live overseas, I'm not sure I can never really

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.559
<v Speaker 2>put a value on those experiences, being responsible for a

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 2>region in which you are very much alien, in that

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.319
<v Speaker 2>space where you have to learn cultural cues in the

0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 2>ways that you've never had to understand them before, where

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.960
<v Speaker 2>you're navigating different countries and different relationships between those countries,

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 2>which are also tricky. Leman had its headquarters for Asia

0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 2>Pack unusually in Tokyo. Most others had a kind of

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 2>a Hong Kong piece or a Singapore piece and then

0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 2>ex Japan piece of it. That wasn't how Liman did it.

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:28.120
<v Speaker 2>So being responsible for Asia Pak was from a Tokyo

0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>base was brilliant.

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Quite fascinating. So you were very successful at Leman. You

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of worked your way up the ranks there. What

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 1>else did you focus on outside of putting out fires

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>in Japan.

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, after running and building up that sort of that team,

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 2>I hired my successor, by the way, fabulous thing to do.

0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I suggest everybody does that, actually, I mean genuinely. We

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.480
<v Speaker 2>can talk about it later, but that ability to hire

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 2>tremendously strong quality people around you is I think being

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.240
<v Speaker 2>a an enormous opportunity and provides you with opportunity, one

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.920
<v Speaker 2>with opportunity to move on and do more. So I

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 2>got a call. I got a call from the US

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.000
<v Speaker 2>who said, hey, how'd your fancy coming to the US,

0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:18.280
<v Speaker 2>And that again was to work at Lehman's headquarters. Fabulous opportunity.

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 2>So if we went from Japan to New York, that

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 2>was a cultural change.

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, say to say the very least, Lehman was very

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:35.040
<v Speaker 1>much a hyper aggressive, macho culture. Dick Fold's nickname was

0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>the Gorilla. What was it like working in that sort of,

0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, very much bro culture.

0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 2>And I'm slightly worried I'm going to disappoint you with

0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.120
<v Speaker 2>this answer, but it was fabulous. I had the best time,

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:55.800
<v Speaker 2>and I never encountered that sense of being overwhelmed by

0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.560
<v Speaker 2>a masculine, overtly bullying kind of culture. In fact, some

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>of the early work that I did on diversity and

0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>inclusion was that Lehman in New York and was sponsored

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 2>by people like Joe Gregory, who was just a real

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:17.200
<v Speaker 2>champion of that that content. So maybe maybe I'm maybe

0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:18.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm thick skinned or something, but the truth of the

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 2>matter is I loved it. I enjoyed it, and I

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 2>think Lehman was I owe a lot to my experiences

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 2>of that organization.

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 1>As much as Lehman spectacularly crashed and burned in the

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:36.080
<v Speaker 1>financial crisis, everybody I know who worked there really liked it.

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 1>It was a pure meritocracy. Absolutely, They didn't care if

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you made money, it didn't matter, right, And yeah, it

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>was a little sharp elbowed. It was a tough place

0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.000
<v Speaker 1>to work, but people who came through that said it

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.720
<v Speaker 1>was the best experience professionally of their.

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Lives, absolutely right. And you know, they had a phrase

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 2>which I still use. You know, when you get at

0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 2>that point in investment banking, you ended up with those

0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 2>loose sights with various things that you're supposed to a

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:08.360
<v Speaker 2>mousematch with the little banking things whatever. And they had

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:13.200
<v Speaker 2>one phrase, and I still use it, which is be smart,

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 2>be dumb. And it's kind of a piece you're smart,

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.040
<v Speaker 2>be dumb, be smart, be dumb. And what that really

0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.720
<v Speaker 2>translated into was, if you don't understand something that's going on,

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 2>if you're in a meeting, you don't get it. If

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 2>you're outside of a meeting, don't get it, say something.

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Actually ask the question, because you'd be surprised how many

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.800
<v Speaker 2>people can't answer the can't answer the question, by the way,

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>but also it's it's okay not to know everything. It's

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the only way you learn. And I still use that.

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:48.159
<v Speaker 2>I might have it quite I don't have it on

0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.960
<v Speaker 2>a loose sight anymore, but I absolutely believe that to

0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.879
<v Speaker 2>be the case. If you don't get it, ask a question.

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not supposed to know everything in the room, that's

0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.800
<v Speaker 2>not the point, but I would like to understand what's

0:17:59.800 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 2>going on.

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Huh. Really really intriguing. So let's talk a little bit

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 1>about the history. For those listening who might not be

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.080
<v Speaker 1>familiar with a MAN group, what is its focus and specialties?

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Who are its clients?

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 2>So Man is a as you said, one hundred and

0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.680
<v Speaker 2>near one hundred and forty five billion dollar hedge fund.

0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.480
<v Speaker 2>It's there too, and long only it's not just a

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 2>hedge fund. It's not just doing longshore. It's doing long only.

0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>It's got private markets, it's through the credit curve. It

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.479
<v Speaker 2>has core business engines which are driven via style. So

0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 2>we have large quant businesses CTA and equity compt businesses.

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.840
<v Speaker 2>We have a discretionary business what some of you might

0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 2>have already been familiar with in GLG. We have a

0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:46.119
<v Speaker 2>private markets business just focused really on real estate and

0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:51.800
<v Speaker 2>that the single family real estate ownership piece and community housing.

0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.600
<v Speaker 2>And then we have something called solutions, and the solutions

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 2>piece is the piece where we work with, in effect,

0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 2>our institutional clients. We're an institutional client business, but those

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.639
<v Speaker 2>institutional clients are pension funds, they're endowments. They are looking

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 2>after the pensions and the savings of real individuals, the

0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 2>individuals that my mum and dad right, the doctors, the teachers,

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.160
<v Speaker 2>the metal workers in Holland, wherever they may be. And

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 2>we partner with those institutions to return value. And that's

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:24.720
<v Speaker 2>our only goal. When we come in in the morning,

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.359
<v Speaker 2>we think about who the real underlying clients are here

0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>and how we partner and ensure that we're returning alpha.

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 2>We're an active manager, and that solutions piece is how

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:41.880
<v Speaker 2>we create bespoke solutions. So we'll take elements or particular

0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:46.080
<v Speaker 2>strategies from each part of our discretionary strategy and match

0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.040
<v Speaker 2>it with a quant strategy and return it to clients

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.600
<v Speaker 2>because we understand and we work with them on their portfolio,

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.880
<v Speaker 2>their exposure, what they need to achieve, their risk management,

0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.640
<v Speaker 2>to create something that is bespoke for them.

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.679
<v Speaker 1>That's very interesting because the typical fund is this is

0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.320
<v Speaker 1>our strategy, take it or leave it right, that's pretty

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.240
<v Speaker 1>much it. You sort of have a one foot in

0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 1>the financial planning asset management side and another side in

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>actual fund management. What are the advantages of marrying those

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 1>two together?

0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 2>I think the reality for me is that more and

0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:30.680
<v Speaker 2>more institutional clients need something in a separate managed account.

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.720
<v Speaker 2>They want something that's bespoke to them and the portfolio

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 2>risk or construction that they need answers to. These are

0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:44.399
<v Speaker 2>long strategic relationships where we are investing time and effort

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.840
<v Speaker 2>in partnership within these institutions to understand what their portfolio

0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.560
<v Speaker 2>construction needs to look like, what they want to achieve,

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.679
<v Speaker 2>and then we are part of helping them understand that

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 2>and helping them deliver a solution that we can provide

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.439
<v Speaker 2>to them to address certain issues. So maybe it's the

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.199
<v Speaker 2>combination of strategies. Maybe it's a combination of strategies with

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.959
<v Speaker 2>additional transparency or additional liquidity. Maybe it's leverage. Maybe it's

0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.159
<v Speaker 2>a tail protection. Maybe it's an overlay hetch. Maybe it's

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.480
<v Speaker 2>any number of these things. The capability that man has

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.480
<v Speaker 2>to do that is what we have spent time and

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 2>energy and money on and technology on. Let's be clear,

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 2>we talk about tech, and I'm sure we'll cover it later.

0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 2>We talk about how we deploy tech, and we think

0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 2>about tech within that quant space, but we deploy technology

0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.160
<v Speaker 2>throughout the organization to give us scale and capability that

0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.360
<v Speaker 2>we use to service our clients.

0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:39.919
<v Speaker 1>So let's stay with that before we get to the

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 1>tech side of it. All the entities you referred to,

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 1>various foundations and institutions and pensions, many of them have

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 1>a future liability, meaning they have an obligation to pay

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:55.920
<v Speaker 1>out a certain amount of money to a certain class

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of beneficiaries at some point in the future. So when

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:04.760
<v Speaker 1>you're just gribing bespoke strategies, I'm assuming you're targeting those

0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.840
<v Speaker 1>future liabilities for each of those entities.

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 2>It can be that it can be anything that they want.

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:16.280
<v Speaker 2>In reality, we are much more about understanding client needs.

0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:20.400
<v Speaker 2>And remember they have, as you know, vast portfolios trillions

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.080
<v Speaker 2>of dollars that they're putting to work. We're part of that,

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and doing absent understanding what they're trying to achieve is

0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:29.480
<v Speaker 2>less efficient potentially for them. So let me give you

0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.760
<v Speaker 2>an example of what I mean by this. I was

0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.480
<v Speaker 2>speaking to a couple of clients in the last couple

0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.880
<v Speaker 2>of days and they were talking to me and they said, listen,

0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>what we really would like to do is sit down

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 2>with you, and that there are two or three areas.

0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:44.680
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, terrific, What do you want to

0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 2>talk about? And they said, well, first of all, we'd

0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 2>like to understand data and how you manage data and

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.760
<v Speaker 2>how you manage your technology in that. I said great.

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.119
<v Speaker 2>And then they said, and then the second thing is,

0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.480
<v Speaker 2>we'd really like your help in understanding our portfolio construction

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:03.439
<v Speaker 2>and whether what we think it's doing is what it's doing,

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.000
<v Speaker 2>or whether we've got correlation where we didn't think we'd

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:09.720
<v Speaker 2>have correlation, or how we're positioned. And we said, sure,

0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.159
<v Speaker 2>we've got tools that can help you do that. And

0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 2>then the third thing they said, I really want to

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.680
<v Speaker 2>talk to you about how you're achieving diversity and equity

0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:17.320
<v Speaker 2>and inclusion.

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 1>Realized that comes up.

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.159
<v Speaker 2>And so I was like, Okay, we can talk to

0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.760
<v Speaker 2>you about that too. The point is it's not just

0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.359
<v Speaker 2>about delivering a fund. Here's a product, let me flog

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:34.120
<v Speaker 2>it to you. It's about a much deeper relationship for us,

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 2>and it's about delivering all of the firm, not just

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:42.640
<v Speaker 2>part of the firm. And that is important to us

0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 2>because I think we do a better job. And by

0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 2>the way, I'll put this in there as well, we

0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:53.439
<v Speaker 2>believe in making our you know, our clients smarter and

0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.199
<v Speaker 2>better because they make us smarter and better in return.

0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 2>There's a there's an interesting piece. I was on a

0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.200
<v Speaker 2>podcast listening to Frandly bol it's actually the other day,

0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:06.120
<v Speaker 2>and she was talking about the massive loss we had

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.919
<v Speaker 2>in the eighties with the aid crisis of artists. But

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.280
<v Speaker 2>she made this really great point, which is it wasn't

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 2>just the artist we lost it. We lost the audience.

0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.200
<v Speaker 2>We lost the discerning audience in that process too. And

0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.160
<v Speaker 2>it resonated with a bit me about how we think

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.040
<v Speaker 2>about man. We want our clients to be smarter and

0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 2>better and equipped with what we can give them because

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 2>they hold us as we hold ourselves accountable. They're the

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:35.639
<v Speaker 2>better audience that makes the better performance.

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Really really quite interesting. So we'll circle back to diversity

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.119
<v Speaker 1>inclusion ESG a little later. Let's stay with technology for

0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.880
<v Speaker 1>a minute. How is man deploying new technologies? What are

0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:52.160
<v Speaker 1>you using in your quant work, your trading and how

0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 1>does this infiltrate the entire organization?

0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a cinema and let me say, you know,

0:24:59.520 --> 0:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>we view technology and the adoption of AI technology as

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:09.240
<v Speaker 2>a fundamental part of innovation, and it's useful across our

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:14.280
<v Speaker 2>entire organization in the investment process but also through trading

0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 2>and execution. It's used at every single juncture. We're constantly

0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 2>looking to align the latest technology and latest techniques with

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.920
<v Speaker 2>our underlying investment philosophies, not the other way around. Does

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 2>that make sense? So it's one are the tools that

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:34.760
<v Speaker 2>make us better at delivering what we do. New technologies

0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.840
<v Speaker 2>are on a replacement for me, they're rather a compliment

0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:42.160
<v Speaker 2>to what we are trying to achieve, and we're never

0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.800
<v Speaker 2>going to be reliant on one technology. This space is

0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:49.480
<v Speaker 2>moving so quickly. It's about adopting the new, finding its application,

0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:53.320
<v Speaker 2>seeing whether we can gain alpha from it, whether it

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>makes a smarter whether it allows us to commodifize something

0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 2>which reduces costs, whatever it may be, and making that happen.

0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:03.280
<v Speaker 2>I think AI can do much more, for example, than

0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:09.639
<v Speaker 2>just automate. It's innovative, it can increase productivity. We use

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:13.600
<v Speaker 2>it as part of our processing of data, of large data,

0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:18.280
<v Speaker 2>of looking at our models, at looking portfolio construction. We

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 2>have used it for example for ESG prediction metrics. Let's

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 2>look about whether where we see weather cycles, we look

0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 2>at it. And we use it in neuro linguistic programming

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:34.879
<v Speaker 2>to look to make sense of sentiment in and your

0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:39.879
<v Speaker 2>reporting for example. So so many different applications by nature.

0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.800
<v Speaker 2>As you know, Barry, we are an open source space.

0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:45.679
<v Speaker 2>We love it. Our developers love it. I mean, I

0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.400
<v Speaker 2>wish I was as smart as a developer, but our

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:51.679
<v Speaker 2>developers love open source. It makes them better. When you

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.560
<v Speaker 2>look at GitHub, which is one of these mechanisms which

0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:57.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure most people know. I think we're number two

0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 2>on GitHub. But it's this sense of open source technology

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 2>where we use it as much as we can within

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.199
<v Speaker 2>the organization, but we're always interested in what else is

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:15.880
<v Speaker 2>out there, so we're not frightened by tech development. We

0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:20.639
<v Speaker 2>want to use it, but we don't depart from philosophically

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:22.680
<v Speaker 2>where we start and what we need it for.

0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's been a little bit of a backlash against

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:32.720
<v Speaker 1>things like various AI and chat bots and etc. To me,

0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.840
<v Speaker 1>it's always been a tool. All this technology is a

0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:40.360
<v Speaker 1>tool that makes people more productive, more effective, more efficient.

0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I've never thought, hey, chat GBT is going to put

0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:48.080
<v Speaker 1>all of us out of business. It's something that can

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:51.200
<v Speaker 1>be used to the betterment of our work product, and

0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:54.280
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like that's integral to Man's philosophy.

0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:58.600
<v Speaker 2>Kind of agree. Chat GPT is clearly the greatest disruptor

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>we've had in the last year. It's been It's been

0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:06.080
<v Speaker 2>given some really quite momentous bylines as well, but it's

0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:10.000
<v Speaker 2>certainly a massive disruptor from my perspective. If you think

0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 2>about it negatively, you're missing the mark, right.

0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:16.280
<v Speaker 1>It's it's sure it hallucinates occasionally.

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 2>But but but well, I was going to say something,

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.440
<v Speaker 2>who doesn't, No, that's not true. It's it's but it's

0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:23.400
<v Speaker 2>also not going to be the first or the last

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:26.639
<v Speaker 2>piece of AI technology. This isn't a well we've got

0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:29.719
<v Speaker 2>chat GPT and now therefore with data that's not going

0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:33.920
<v Speaker 2>to happen. And this this sort of semi hysterical fear

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.679
<v Speaker 2>of it, I think is all wrong. There is there

0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.680
<v Speaker 2>are undoubtedly going to be benefits for us being able

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:45.479
<v Speaker 2>to use technology to capture large data sources. Look at

0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:47.720
<v Speaker 2>what we've done. And you know, I'm talking to a

0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:50.400
<v Speaker 2>man at Bloomberg, so you will know this. But we

0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:53.440
<v Speaker 2>talked about open architecture a minute ago, and look at

0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 2>what we've done with this Arctic dB. So this is

0:28:57.840 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 2>a piece of technology. We've developed a man group which

0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 2>in effect is a super charge database. You know, it's

0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 2>able to process large chunks of data which we're all

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to deal with in a much more fashion and

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:16.960
<v Speaker 2>effective way. We actually open sourced it back in twenty fifteen.

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 2>It's first version. But in one of those moments where

0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:23.200
<v Speaker 2>you've got to be carefully or not drinking your own

0:29:23.400 --> 0:29:27.360
<v Speaker 2>cool aid of a bit and we talk about tech

0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:30.520
<v Speaker 2>all the time, we went to Bloomberg and we said, listen,

0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:33.960
<v Speaker 2>we've got this cool piece of kit. Would you like

0:29:34.000 --> 0:29:35.040
<v Speaker 2>to take a look at it? And we came to

0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg because if there's one place that has a phenomenal

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:43.560
<v Speaker 2>tech space and a qatrillion developers and all the rest

0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 2>of it, it's Bloomberg. So we came here and we

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 2>were testing ourselves back to that audience thing, show me

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>how whether we can be better at this, and show

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 2>me whether we've kidded ourselves. Is this really? Is this

0:29:56.440 --> 0:30:00.440
<v Speaker 2>really the thing? And after months and months, it now

0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:02.760
<v Speaker 2>in the hands of Bloomberg and it's been endorsed us

0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:05.959
<v Speaker 2>that as a program that is in the mix and

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 2>is part of the Bloomberg offering in that space. So

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 2>we checked our audience. We worked out with a wind

0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:14.880
<v Speaker 2>drink in the kool aid. But it shows you the

0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:17.880
<v Speaker 2>sort of the way that we think about tech and

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:20.520
<v Speaker 2>how we think about it as something that makes us

0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:23.520
<v Speaker 2>all better. But I will be super clear, it's only

0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 2>part of what we have. We have a million models,

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:30.920
<v Speaker 2>we have our own technology, we have our own philosophical

0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>investment ideas within each of our engines, and we use

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 2>tech to make us better at that.

0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Huh. That sounds quite fascinating. Let's discuss the major divisions

0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 1>that at Man Group. I want to try and wrap

0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:47.200
<v Speaker 1>my arms around. First, what is man AHL.

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so think of we have two let me do

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 2>it in a slightly different way. We have two cont engines.

0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>One is Numerican, one is AHL CTA Macro big trading hubin.

0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 1>When I hear CTA, I think kamal is that.

0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Was where it was originally coming from. But it's much

0:31:03.240 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 2>more than that. And then equities rus Premia long only

0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:12.280
<v Speaker 2>piece in Numeric which is also quant GELG. Third engine

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:16.360
<v Speaker 2>discretionary human beings people like you and me. And by

0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the way, the way I started at the firm was

0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:22.600
<v Speaker 2>through Georg. That was an acquisition, which is something that

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.960
<v Speaker 2>we know is part and parcel of how Man has

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:31.280
<v Speaker 2>grown over the years. So Georg discretionary portfolio management. Then

0:31:31.320 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 2>you have what is FRM MSL. So that's that solutions

0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 2>piece we talked about earlier. Although FRM was and you've

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:42.880
<v Speaker 2>spoken to Luke before, so the fund funds business, which

0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 2>was also an acquisition, but that's rolled in solution as well.

0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 2>And we have still got a fund of funds business

0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 2>where people might have thought in the past that that

0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:54.959
<v Speaker 2>was a dying part, not so much. People need some

0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:58.360
<v Speaker 2>help when it comes to selection. Also of managers. That

0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:00.240
<v Speaker 2>are out there, and that's still something that we are

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.800
<v Speaker 2>part and part love. And then the fifth piece is

0:32:02.840 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 2>that private market space where we have that real estate

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.400
<v Speaker 2>piece that we talked about earlier, and we within each

0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 2>of those engines, we also have credit offerings as part

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:12.280
<v Speaker 2>of that.

0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Huh really quite fascinating. So let's talk a little bit

0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:20.800
<v Speaker 1>about your approach to leadership. You've managed to distinguish yourself

0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:24.600
<v Speaker 1>in a very competitive field. Tell us how.

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Here's the answer. Everyone, It's not true, I tell you

0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.360
<v Speaker 2>in perhaps this is a way of thinking about it.

0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:38.080
<v Speaker 2>What I have done, perhaps is the better way of

0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:41.720
<v Speaker 2>saying who I and how I distinguish myself. What I've

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:46.360
<v Speaker 2>done is taken every single opportunity that has come my way.

0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>And I so no master plan. This just you just

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:53.640
<v Speaker 1>stumbled blindly from one gig to the next.

0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the perfect way of summing it up.

0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 2>The way of summing it up is this. If you'd

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.160
<v Speaker 2>have asked me twenty five years ago, do you think

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:05.600
<v Speaker 2>you'll be the CEO of an investment management company? I laughed, right,

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:09.080
<v Speaker 2>I would have done. I didn't have a grand master plan.

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:14.840
<v Speaker 2>What I did have was a somewhat insatiable desire to

0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:18.280
<v Speaker 2>learn and have some fun doing so that. I loved

0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:22.160
<v Speaker 2>being a fixer. I loved being put on planes or

0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:28.160
<v Speaker 2>being sent into areas to solve things. I have innately

0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:34.280
<v Speaker 2>hired people around me and built teams of highly credible

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:40.600
<v Speaker 2>quality people who I have empowered and who I have

0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:45.880
<v Speaker 2>loved to partner in achieving whatever it was that we

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:49.840
<v Speaker 2>needed to achieve, better, faster, smarter than before. And that

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>empowerment piece is huge. The ability to not have to

0:33:54.680 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 2>be the fact in a different way, if I am

0:33:57.240 --> 0:33:58.160
<v Speaker 2>the smartest person.

0:33:58.000 --> 0:33:59.840
<v Speaker 1>In the room, you've done something wrong.

0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 2>I worry. I mean, that's not okay. So on that

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:09.319
<v Speaker 2>basis leadership style, hire brilliant people, Put great minds around you,

0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Put people around you who are willing to disagree with you,

0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 2>or better still, stop you careering off a cliff if

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:17.799
<v Speaker 2>you're heading in the wrong direction way. I can't tell

0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:20.759
<v Speaker 2>you how many times that that is just as important

0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 2>of the sort of the rugby tackle to your knees bit,

0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.839
<v Speaker 2>if you've suddenly got yourself into a frame of this

0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 2>is where we're going. And I have enormously benefited from

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:38.040
<v Speaker 2>that style of management, which is inclusive. It's about delegation,

0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 2>and it's about empowering people to sometimes be really horrible.

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:45.960
<v Speaker 1>So let's stick with the delegation and the empowerment because

0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 1>those are key themes. You don't sound like you're a

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 1>micro manager. You sound like you tell people this is

0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:56.680
<v Speaker 1>what we want you to do, tell us what you

0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:58.719
<v Speaker 1>need to get it done, and now go do it.

0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.640
<v Speaker 2>That's our job as great leaders. And I mean that

0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 2>sounded arrogant. I don't mean that I'm just anyone any leaders.

0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 2>I think any great leader, any capable leader. Maybe that's

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:12.960
<v Speaker 2>a better way of framing you, any capable leader. That's

0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:16.160
<v Speaker 2>one of the hallmarks. It feels to me high great

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:19.680
<v Speaker 2>people empower them if they can't deliver. If you've got

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 2>the wrong person, change the person, don't micromanage, don't find

0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the fix in making it. You do the job or

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 2>somebody else. Swap swap, that's right, And so that has

0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.360
<v Speaker 2>always been away. I also find that really smart people

0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:37.960
<v Speaker 2>want that they want to be given the keys. They

0:35:38.000 --> 0:35:41.400
<v Speaker 2>want to run these things. And the smartest people know

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>when they don't know. The most frightening person is the

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:47.919
<v Speaker 2>person who doesn't know. They don't know. The best person

0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:49.399
<v Speaker 2>who works for you is the one who goes, yet

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:51.839
<v Speaker 2>don't know the answer this, leave it with me, or

0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:54.319
<v Speaker 2>we've got to find the best solution here, not the

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:58.359
<v Speaker 2>perfect solution here. You've got to be able to move dynamically.

0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>You have to be able to think, You have to

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>be able to find solutions and be execution driven. If

0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:07.680
<v Speaker 2>you're working with me.

0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:12.200
<v Speaker 1>So you clearly have great insights and leadership skills. But

0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.600
<v Speaker 1>you've said you're a surprise that you got named CEO

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 1>of this large financial firm. Why the surprise?

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 2>I was well, And by the way, I'm.

0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Calling you out for a little false humility here, defend yourself.

0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Defend excellent. Here, I go on, goes the barrass again. Parised,

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 2>we can count Let me say I think there are

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 2>tremendously strong people. We have a great bench of senior

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:40.200
<v Speaker 2>management at Man Group. It is a bit of a

0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 2>privilege and it sounds a bit trite, just happens to

0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:46.279
<v Speaker 2>be true that we have a phenomenal bench of high

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:50.680
<v Speaker 2>quality people. I don't want to assume, and didn't want

0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 2>to assume that I'd be named the CEO. I am thrilled.

0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Let me tell you that I am going to be

0:36:57.040 --> 0:37:01.319
<v Speaker 2>the CEO from the first of September, but that there

0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:05.239
<v Speaker 2>are so many capable individuals that it doesn't do you

0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:08.360
<v Speaker 2>any harm to step back and recognize the skills and

0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:10.920
<v Speaker 2>the qualities of those people who you have worked with

0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:14.440
<v Speaker 2>and who you want to work with going forward. So

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:18.160
<v Speaker 2>that that has been something that I think has held

0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:23.239
<v Speaker 2>me in good stead actually to have perspective and to

0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 2>keep my feet very firmly grounded. I think what perhaps

0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:31.640
<v Speaker 2>surprised me in reality, and yet it shouldn't have done,

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:36.880
<v Speaker 2>was the press coverage that the announcement garnered.

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:40.719
<v Speaker 1>Meaning I don't want to put words in your mouth,

0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:45.560
<v Speaker 1>but I've read everything you've written. You would genuinely surprised

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:49.680
<v Speaker 1>people focused on you as a woman taking the CEO.

0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:55.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is still a pretty especially in finance. Look,

0:37:55.160 --> 0:38:01.240
<v Speaker 1>there isn't gender parody in business generally, and finance lags business,

0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:05.360
<v Speaker 1>and hedge funds lag finance. So why so surprised?

0:38:05.400 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's the point. I think this is where I

0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:09.839
<v Speaker 2>call myself out and say, why, you know, you kind

0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>of go, yeah, well, obviously, when you put it like that,

0:38:12.680 --> 0:38:15.759
<v Speaker 2>I think perhaps I was so focused on the job.

0:38:16.080 --> 0:38:18.640
<v Speaker 2>I was so focused on this being something that I

0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:22.600
<v Speaker 2>looked at internally rather than I perhaps focused on the

0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 2>external ramification or impact of it, and it's humbling when

0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:30.799
<v Speaker 2>that happens. And it's been heartening and in some ways

0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:35.120
<v Speaker 2>overwhelming and brilliant all at the same time. And of

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:38.880
<v Speaker 2>course you get one gets a thousand emails and a

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.440
<v Speaker 2>thousand messages and all of those things, and some of

0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:45.880
<v Speaker 2>the most touching are those from people who are really

0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:49.560
<v Speaker 2>just saying, do you know, thanks, thank you, Robin, but

0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:55.000
<v Speaker 2>thank you man for breaking that, for giving us somebody

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:59.040
<v Speaker 2>who is underrepresented. And it means that we all think

0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:02.040
<v Speaker 2>we now you've got you're one more people, one more person.

0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Sorry too. That's broken through that barrier, whatever that barrier

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:09.840
<v Speaker 2>may look like. And that was that was touching. I

0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:10.359
<v Speaker 2>have to say.

0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:13.759
<v Speaker 1>It's also when you're on the inside, you see the

0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:17.920
<v Speaker 1>changes that others won't see manifest for years or decades,

0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:20.680
<v Speaker 1>so you're aware that things might be a little better

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:23.640
<v Speaker 1>than they appear from the outside. So maybe there's a

0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:27.640
<v Speaker 1>little surprise there. I have to mention at this point

0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 1>that by the time you become CEO on September first,

0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:38.439
<v Speaker 1>the chairman replacing John Cryon will be Anne Wade. You'll

0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:41.600
<v Speaker 1>be not only led by women, the firm will be

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:44.840
<v Speaker 1>led by two women. There's nothing like that in the

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 1>hedge fund universe at all.

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:52.000
<v Speaker 2>It's phenomenal and and is a superstar. I'm very, very

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:54.879
<v Speaker 2>lucky to also work with a board. We're very lucky

0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 2>to work with a board at Man that is brilliant

0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:03.520
<v Speaker 2>and engaged and highly qualified, and that with Anne has

0:40:03.600 --> 0:40:08.040
<v Speaker 2>been again the master of transition, the master of how

0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:11.239
<v Speaker 2>we think about succession at Man has been very deep

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:12.800
<v Speaker 2>in the way that the board has thought about the

0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:16.040
<v Speaker 2>succession of the chair has also been a very very

0:40:16.160 --> 0:40:20.920
<v Speaker 2>in depth assessment and analysis by happenstance. We are in

0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:24.160
<v Speaker 2>this position with Anne and myself. I've got to tell

0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:27.680
<v Speaker 2>you it's going to be brilliant. But it's not because

0:40:27.680 --> 0:40:31.600
<v Speaker 2>we're women. It's because we're the best people to take

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:32.200
<v Speaker 2>these roles.

0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:34.840
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about the best people. The firm is

0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:39.200
<v Speaker 1>one forty four point seven billion in assets. Let's round

0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:41.400
<v Speaker 1>it up to one forty five. As much as my

0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 1>compliance people hate when I do that, how do you

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:47.799
<v Speaker 1>guys plan on growing the assets? Do you have any

0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:50.040
<v Speaker 1>targets in mind? Do you want to get to two

0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:52.840
<v Speaker 1>hundred billion? Is it a trillion dollar firm? A decade

0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:54.440
<v Speaker 1>from now, what are you thinking about?

0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:57.080
<v Speaker 2>And it's a great question, it's also an early question.

0:40:57.200 --> 0:41:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Let's be clear. So I'm going to phaps not give

0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:03.920
<v Speaker 2>you the satisfactory answer you want. Nevertheless, you'd expect me

0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:06.239
<v Speaker 2>to do exactly what I'm just about to do. The

0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:09.919
<v Speaker 2>firm is brilliant. I mean, it has a cracking core

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 2>business and my number one job, apart from anything, is

0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:16.399
<v Speaker 2>not to break that because that is value and it's

0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:19.880
<v Speaker 2>real and it will continue to grow. We will continue

0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:22.960
<v Speaker 2>to see the value of technology, and we have thirty

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:26.480
<v Speaker 2>five years, forty years of quant and data and tech

0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 2>behind us, and we will continue to invest in that space.

0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 2>We will continue to look for opportunities in an M

0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.880
<v Speaker 2>and A format. We've made it very clear to the market.

0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Can't guess what they're going to be. Couldn't tell you

0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 2>if I did know, But I can't guess what that's

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 2>going to be. What I will tell you is it

0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:48.320
<v Speaker 2>will be additive. It will be additive for our clients. Ultimately,

0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:52.839
<v Speaker 2>this is about having deeper and better client offerings. It's

0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 2>that piece about the solutions that we talked about earlier.

0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:58.040
<v Speaker 2>How do I ensure that I've got each of the

0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:02.680
<v Speaker 2>components that can provide made a better offering for our

0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.440
<v Speaker 2>institutional clients, and we'll grow that us massively important to

0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:11.080
<v Speaker 2>US deep capital market. You'll absolutely see us putting effort

0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:13.560
<v Speaker 2>and time into building our presence here too.

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Looking forward to that, tell us a little bit about

0:42:16.320 --> 0:42:21.160
<v Speaker 1>your background in environmental, social and governance based investing.

0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:24.399
<v Speaker 2>It certainly has become a little bit controversial here, but yes,

0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:27.000
<v Speaker 2>let me talk. Let me talk about our background. In

0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:30.200
<v Speaker 2>the early two thousands we had our first sort of

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:35.440
<v Speaker 2>involvement in creating and thinking about climate and signing up

0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 2>to various supplies of information when it came to climate data.

0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:46.280
<v Speaker 2>But really, let's be clear, it's ESG as a concept

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 2>has really hotted up. If I'm allowed to use that

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:54.279
<v Speaker 2>force with ESG in the last pun intended, maybe a

0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:57.000
<v Speaker 2>tiny pun intended in the last five years or so,

0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:01.800
<v Speaker 2>where you've seen the massive change in the European regulatory environment,

0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:04.520
<v Speaker 2>where you have these Article eight and Article nine funds,

0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:07.840
<v Speaker 2>which are responsible investing funds. You know they have to

0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:13.000
<v Speaker 2>have a certain percentage of responsible investing investments within them.

0:43:13.320 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 2>That can differ between Article nine and Artical eight. Where

0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:20.280
<v Speaker 2>we've moved away from exclusion this where things are becoming

0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:24.480
<v Speaker 2>more complex and where data points are becoming more interesting

0:43:25.000 --> 0:43:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to drive investment decisions. We have certainly seen an uptick

0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:34.959
<v Speaker 2>of investment interest in ORI in Europe. You know, there's

0:43:35.000 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 2>almost a point where you can't have a conversation with

0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:40.680
<v Speaker 2>somebody in Europe with a client without there being an

0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:41.600
<v Speaker 2>RI piece.

0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 1>To it, meaning responsible investing in.

0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:48.920
<v Speaker 2>My apologies and so ESGRI interchangeable in this space. But

0:43:49.400 --> 0:43:52.359
<v Speaker 2>a comment I would say more generally is since when

0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:56.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't we take into account governance and risk in investment

0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:59.920
<v Speaker 2>decision making? That's the bit that I find quite in

0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:03.200
<v Speaker 2>interesting here. So when I answer your question, I answered

0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:05.680
<v Speaker 2>it in the format of what you're really asking me,

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:09.040
<v Speaker 2>which is the ESG kind of concept. But actually, when

0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:12.440
<v Speaker 2>you extract governance and you say do we look at

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:16.240
<v Speaker 2>good governance of issuers? Who doesn't?

0:44:16.800 --> 0:44:17.840
<v Speaker 1>It's a risk screen.

0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:20.520
<v Speaker 2>If anything, it's a risk screen. And so the way

0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:24.319
<v Speaker 2>that we think about ESG at Man is not as

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:28.640
<v Speaker 2>an evangelical point where I soapbox you into saying what

0:44:28.760 --> 0:44:30.879
<v Speaker 2>is right and wrong. That's not what we're here to do.

0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:35.319
<v Speaker 2>We're here as as product providers, solution providers to our

0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 2>clients and So if a client comes to us and says,

0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I want to have a portfolio which has which reduces

0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:45.320
<v Speaker 2>its carbon impact, if I want to look at biodiversity,

0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:49.200
<v Speaker 2>if I want to invest in and this has not happened,

0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:51.160
<v Speaker 2>by the way, but you know it only boards which

0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I only want to invest in publicly listed companies where

0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:57.520
<v Speaker 2>fifty percent of the boards are made up of diverse

0:44:57.560 --> 0:45:02.120
<v Speaker 2>candidates doesn't happen. But these criters, that's where we are

0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:06.640
<v Speaker 2>placed now. The difference that Man has is that what

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:09.879
<v Speaker 2>is happening is there is a chunk of data out

0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:17.120
<v Speaker 2>there that is wholly inconsistent, highly complex, multiply sourced, and

0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:21.440
<v Speaker 2>downright contradictory. And what we can do with that is

0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:25.840
<v Speaker 2>apply that thirty five forty years of data science, quant

0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:30.319
<v Speaker 2>and tech capability. I can throw five hundred people at

0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that if I want to. We don't need to understand

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:37.319
<v Speaker 2>what the signals are in that space. But it isn't

0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:40.120
<v Speaker 2>that everything we do at Man Group is now has

0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:43.200
<v Speaker 2>to be ESG. It's what a clients want, and we

0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 2>certainly have clients who will only want something that is

0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:50.839
<v Speaker 2>responsibly invested in some format, and we have a lot

0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:52.640
<v Speaker 2>of clients who don't.

0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:56.240
<v Speaker 1>So when you say that data is contradictory, there's been

0:45:56.480 --> 0:46:01.239
<v Speaker 1>some studies that have shown that ESG doesn't generate any

0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:05.760
<v Speaker 1>form of alpha rautperformance very often tied to how well

0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:08.319
<v Speaker 1>oil companies are doing, because if you pull those out,

0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:11.320
<v Speaker 1>it's a major component. And there's others that say, we

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.160
<v Speaker 1>mentioned the risk component. Hey, if you have a lot

0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:18.680
<v Speaker 1>of companies with bad governance, they have a disconcerting tendency

0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:23.680
<v Speaker 1>to blow up and crash. How do you reconcile these

0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:26.720
<v Speaker 1>different data points or is it all in the framing

0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:31.160
<v Speaker 1>and the definition of what ESG is or what diversity

0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:32.080
<v Speaker 1>and inclusions?

0:46:33.160 --> 0:46:35.879
<v Speaker 2>Great question, Barry. I think what you are pulling out

0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:39.640
<v Speaker 2>there is the complexity of the question alone the answer.

0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:44.840
<v Speaker 2>So fundamentally, yes, it has something to do with strategy.

0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:46.600
<v Speaker 2>If you were in a growth strategy last year that

0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:51.799
<v Speaker 2>had DSG, didn't matter, didn't matter if right, So some

0:46:51.840 --> 0:46:55.480
<v Speaker 2>of this is also about extracting the ESG factor, not

0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>just understand and understanding it as against the strategy that

0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 2>DSG was attached to. Absolutely, you're finding if you're in

0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:08.600
<v Speaker 2>a you're a hydroelectric company and where your hydroelectric base

0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:12.520
<v Speaker 2>is now suffering from drought every year. If you are

0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:15.600
<v Speaker 2>a wind company and wind patterns for the last few

0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:21.040
<v Speaker 2>years have been off considerably. These are climate change, but

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:25.640
<v Speaker 2>they take into account effectively the effectiveness of your business. Now,

0:47:26.600 --> 0:47:29.840
<v Speaker 2>so how do you how do you extract the various

0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:33.680
<v Speaker 2>points of that to make it a decent a decent thesis.

0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:36.520
<v Speaker 2>And the argument is, what is it you want to

0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:40.120
<v Speaker 2>achieve as a client, what are you after? And are

0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:42.520
<v Speaker 2>you willing and some points of this, And this is

0:47:42.520 --> 0:47:46.000
<v Speaker 2>the discussion out there that happens with some clients. Is

0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:48.280
<v Speaker 2>is it all about P and L, is it about

0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:52.600
<v Speaker 2>alpha capture? Or is there a willingness here to actually say, actually,

0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:55.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm more interested in I want P and L, I

0:47:55.160 --> 0:47:58.440
<v Speaker 2>want alpha capture, and I actually want social impact or

0:47:58.480 --> 0:48:02.399
<v Speaker 2>I want climate impact or I want decarbonization. The other

0:48:02.480 --> 0:48:05.799
<v Speaker 2>piece of this is there are absolute strategies which are

0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:11.240
<v Speaker 2>about transition, and transition is about recognizing the journey between

0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>where we are today in carbon and greenhouse gas versus

0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:18.000
<v Speaker 2>where a company might be going. So you will have

0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:20.239
<v Speaker 2>and we have had clients who so I'm interested in

0:48:20.440 --> 0:48:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I still want to look at oil and gas and

0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:25.080
<v Speaker 2>fossil fuels, but I'm interested in the transition I'm interested

0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:28.080
<v Speaker 2>in who is really putting money to work to transition

0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:33.759
<v Speaker 2>from those fossil fossil fuels into renewables, for example. So

0:48:34.040 --> 0:48:39.520
<v Speaker 2>a complex question which then begets unfortunately a complex answer.

0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk a little bit about diversity and inclusion. How

0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:47.080
<v Speaker 1>do you think about that as a manager, and then

0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:49.000
<v Speaker 1>how do you think about that as an investor?

0:48:49.640 --> 0:48:52.320
<v Speaker 2>We turn a mirror on ourselves, Let's be clear. You

0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:57.640
<v Speaker 2>know that's important. We continue to put every effort into

0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:01.520
<v Speaker 2>seeking and having different in our organization, I mean real

0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:05.080
<v Speaker 2>difference as well. I think this piece about I'm not

0:49:05.200 --> 0:49:09.040
<v Speaker 2>really interested in the person who is different on the

0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:12.040
<v Speaker 2>outside but actually went through all the same educational processes

0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.000
<v Speaker 2>in the same training. I think we need difference in.

0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:16.160
<v Speaker 1>The right the way. That's it's funny you mentioned that,

0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:19.719
<v Speaker 1>But there was just a study recently, and I don't

0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:22.160
<v Speaker 1>remember if it was the Times or Wall Street Journal

0:49:22.200 --> 0:49:25.600
<v Speaker 1>of Bloomberg that had the story. The vast majority of

0:49:25.640 --> 0:49:30.000
<v Speaker 1>economists working in finance went to the same six grad schools.

0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:31.920
<v Speaker 1>So what does it matter how they look. It's the

0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:34.840
<v Speaker 1>same widget coming out of the same factory.

0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:36.640
<v Speaker 2>And we've got to get comfortable as well. Let's be

0:49:36.719 --> 0:49:39.640
<v Speaker 2>clear we have to be comfortable with discomfort if you

0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:40.960
<v Speaker 2>want real diversity.

0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Again, comfortable with discomfort.

0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Comfortable with discomfort. When you're in a room and you

0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:48.399
<v Speaker 2>can connect over your whatever it may be, It doesn't

0:49:48.440 --> 0:49:51.040
<v Speaker 2>really matter what your connection is, your school or your

0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:55.960
<v Speaker 2>experience in life, where you your football teams. By that,

0:49:56.040 --> 0:50:00.920
<v Speaker 2>I meant soccer, soccer anyways, that thing. That's what we

0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:03.440
<v Speaker 2>do as human beings. As human beings, we try to

0:50:03.440 --> 0:50:08.040
<v Speaker 2>connect with each other. That is how we smooth the conversations,

0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:11.479
<v Speaker 2>how we move things forward. Actually, when you have real

0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:14.759
<v Speaker 2>difference in the room, it feels a little kind of uncomfortable,

0:50:15.000 --> 0:50:17.239
<v Speaker 2>It feels a little bit jarring from time. Well, what

0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.440
<v Speaker 2>do you mean you don't understand that, you don't get that,

0:50:19.600 --> 0:50:23.239
<v Speaker 2>or that wasn't as easy a conversation. We gravitate as

0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:27.040
<v Speaker 2>human beings towards easier conversations where we find commonality. And

0:50:27.080 --> 0:50:30.160
<v Speaker 2>what we're asking of our organizations is to make it

0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:34.239
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more friction full, not friction less in

0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:37.360
<v Speaker 2>that space. But I am a thousand percent and I

0:50:37.480 --> 0:50:39.279
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't say that. I know it's a bad phrase. I'm

0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:40.440
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent right.

0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:42.799
<v Speaker 1>I thank you so much for that. By the way,

0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:46.759
<v Speaker 1>because my question has always why why not?

0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:52.359
<v Speaker 2>Two thousand, one hundred percent sure that we need and

0:50:52.440 --> 0:50:55.799
<v Speaker 2>there is a war for the best talent. And if

0:50:55.800 --> 0:51:01.000
<v Speaker 2>we think if the premise that only the best people

0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:07.239
<v Speaker 2>come from certain demographics, your tribe, your tribe, right is,

0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:10.759
<v Speaker 2>when you say it out loud, a nonsense. So how

0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:15.400
<v Speaker 2>we get people into our organizations that feel, look and

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.480
<v Speaker 2>have difference, and how we ensure that we give them

0:51:18.480 --> 0:51:22.239
<v Speaker 2>the space to be that different in our organizations. That's

0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:26.080
<v Speaker 2>the criticality to it, that bit of yeah, yeah, it's okay,

0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:28.560
<v Speaker 2>we'll have you, and then please can you be like us?

0:51:29.520 --> 0:51:32.479
<v Speaker 2>You've got to know how to create an organization which

0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:37.720
<v Speaker 2>actually gives people the space to be different, because that's

0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:39.480
<v Speaker 2>what you're getting them for. It's a bit like an

0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:42.560
<v Speaker 2>acquisition where you understand the commercial reality of it. You

0:51:42.640 --> 0:51:46.360
<v Speaker 2>buy something because of its commercial differentiation, and then you

0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:49.800
<v Speaker 2>bring it in and you're trying to sqush it into

0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:55.280
<v Speaker 2>something that degrades that commercial benefit. It's the same with people.

0:51:55.920 --> 0:51:57.960
<v Speaker 2>You've got to bring people in, you've got to let

0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.600
<v Speaker 2>them fly, and you've got to be comfortable, perhaps being

0:52:00.640 --> 0:52:02.680
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more uncomfortable than you work before.

0:52:02.800 --> 0:52:05.520
<v Speaker 1>All the academic studies say, if you want to avoid

0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:08.840
<v Speaker 1>group think, if you want better decisions, the more diverse

0:52:08.920 --> 0:52:12.200
<v Speaker 1>the group, the more likely you are to reach a

0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:17.600
<v Speaker 1>better decision. So even that discomfort, there's some academic research

0:52:17.640 --> 0:52:18.680
<v Speaker 1>that supports it right.

0:52:18.640 --> 0:52:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, Over and over again, you see the academic research.

0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:23.880
<v Speaker 2>And yet I think there's an arrogance that we've had

0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:27.319
<v Speaker 2>in our industry a little bit, which has been that

0:52:27.480 --> 0:52:30.080
<v Speaker 2>great people will come to us. And then we suddenly

0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:33.160
<v Speaker 2>woke up a little while ago, especially as tech became

0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:35.839
<v Speaker 2>so incredibly important to all of us, that there were

0:52:35.880 --> 0:52:38.840
<v Speaker 2>other options for these very smart people that they didn't

0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:41.040
<v Speaker 2>have to come and work at hedge funds, or maybe

0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:44.680
<v Speaker 2>they weren't interested in finance. What how could that possible?

0:52:44.920 --> 0:52:48.759
<v Speaker 2>How could that be? Barry? You and I, it's shocking, right,

0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:49.480
<v Speaker 2>I'll let you.

0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:52.200
<v Speaker 1>An a secret. I'm a recovering attorney myself, so I

0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:53.520
<v Speaker 1>get it right.

0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:57.560
<v Speaker 2>So that attorney's anonymous, we need to go to anyway

0:52:57.600 --> 0:53:02.680
<v Speaker 2>that aside. So we suddenly found ourselves believing that actually

0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:05.440
<v Speaker 2>we are great, therefore great people will come, and actually

0:53:05.520 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 2>not so much that those new generations have many more

0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:13.359
<v Speaker 2>choices on how to deploy that expertise, and actually they

0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:16.400
<v Speaker 2>look at us and they say, why would I come

0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:19.239
<v Speaker 2>and work for an organization where you don't look like me,

0:53:19.600 --> 0:53:22.560
<v Speaker 2>you don't feel like me, you don't understand me, and

0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:24.160
<v Speaker 2>you'll make me do stuff I don't want to do.

0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:28.120
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, I've watched billions, and I mean,

0:53:28.640 --> 0:53:30.320
<v Speaker 2>this is the difficulty with podcasts. I just made a

0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:33.359
<v Speaker 2>funny face, but the point being, we have to do

0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:36.120
<v Speaker 2>and we've had to do a much better job. I

0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:41.320
<v Speaker 2>think in joining up the dots for that brilliant talent

0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:45.880
<v Speaker 2>that's coming through about what we do and why we're valuable,

0:53:46.160 --> 0:53:48.120
<v Speaker 2>and why it matters that we do what we do,

0:53:48.320 --> 0:53:53.440
<v Speaker 2>and why they are important part of ensuring financial security

0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:57.560
<v Speaker 2>for millions of people who have worked very, very hard

0:53:57.600 --> 0:54:00.960
<v Speaker 2>their whole lives and deserve a high qual return on

0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:01.480
<v Speaker 2>their pension.

0:54:01.800 --> 0:54:06.320
<v Speaker 1>So I've always imagined the competition for the best talent

0:54:07.000 --> 0:54:11.800
<v Speaker 1>is between financial companies. What you're really saying is finance

0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:17.040
<v Speaker 1>as an entity collectively has to compete against other.

0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely field institution every day of the week, every day

0:54:21.000 --> 0:54:24.120
<v Speaker 2>of the week. And maybe it's startups, maybe it's that piece,

0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:26.359
<v Speaker 2>or maybe it's Testa, or maybe it's Facebook or maybe

0:54:26.360 --> 0:54:29.560
<v Speaker 2>it's Google, or maybe it's any number of these other

0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:33.239
<v Speaker 2>spaces that are tech enabled, and where they're doing this,

0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:39.880
<v Speaker 2>their pr their PR is better, has been smarter than ours.

0:54:40.239 --> 0:54:43.320
<v Speaker 2>And that piece where we used where people you know,

0:54:43.640 --> 0:54:46.640
<v Speaker 2>skateboard in the office bit, you know, And I think

0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:48.480
<v Speaker 2>we've had to be a little bit smarter and a

0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:51.520
<v Speaker 2>little less scathing and a little bit more humble to

0:54:51.680 --> 0:54:55.279
<v Speaker 2>ensure that we really are the employer or the industry

0:54:55.480 --> 0:54:58.960
<v Speaker 2>or version of that choice for the best and the brightest.

0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:01.480
<v Speaker 2>And that includes people who are different and they look

0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:05.560
<v Speaker 2>at financial services and they don't see difference.

0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Huh. So let me dredge up a quote of yours

0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:13.360
<v Speaker 1>that I thought was quite fascinating. You told somebody recently,

0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:18.080
<v Speaker 1>and I believe it was after you were named incoming CEO. Quote.

0:55:18.360 --> 0:55:21.239
<v Speaker 1>I've never been in the majority, whether because I was

0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 1>a woman and or someone who proudly identifies as part

0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:29.239
<v Speaker 1>of the LGBTQ community, and that can create challenges and

0:55:29.360 --> 0:55:32.759
<v Speaker 1>means that prejudice has been a reality for me at

0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:37.000
<v Speaker 1>different points in my career. How does that affect how

0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.759
<v Speaker 1>you run a company, how you engage in recruitment, and

0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.200
<v Speaker 1>how you think about diversity and inclusion.

0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:46.319
<v Speaker 2>I think it's given me insight. I think when you

0:55:46.360 --> 0:55:50.000
<v Speaker 2>live it, when it's your lived experience, you know it

0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:53.960
<v Speaker 2>and you feel it. I think also, I am now

0:55:53.960 --> 0:55:56.239
<v Speaker 2>in a position and have been I guess for the

0:55:56.320 --> 0:56:00.680
<v Speaker 2>last few years of being proof positive that people who

0:56:00.719 --> 0:56:03.839
<v Speaker 2>are different can can be in senior positions and can

0:56:04.239 --> 0:56:08.400
<v Speaker 2>now run companies. I think that the prejudice for me

0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:12.640
<v Speaker 2>just kind of made me more punchy and made me

0:56:12.960 --> 0:56:19.799
<v Speaker 2>more determined to succeed. So I think it makes me

0:56:20.520 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 2>better at understanding what it feels like when you don't belong,

0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:28.920
<v Speaker 2>when you're on the outside of conversation, when the culture

0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:33.600
<v Speaker 2>of an organization genuinely isn't inclusive, and that it's not

0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:38.200
<v Speaker 2>about ticking boxes. It's about investing in your culture and

0:56:38.239 --> 0:56:42.640
<v Speaker 2>your organization in a way that's very, very authentic. I'm

0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:47.400
<v Speaker 2>lucky in many ways. I never struggled with the I

0:56:47.440 --> 0:56:50.239
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be this, This isn't you know, this isn't what

0:56:50.360 --> 0:56:52.920
<v Speaker 2>society wants. I'm never going to succeed. I kind of

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:56.839
<v Speaker 2>don't know what happened, but that bypassed me luckily, and

0:56:56.920 --> 0:57:01.200
<v Speaker 2>so I've always been the way I really am today,

0:57:01.280 --> 0:57:05.480
<v Speaker 2>and that has been extraordinarily good for me in large part,

0:57:05.600 --> 0:57:09.120
<v Speaker 2>but it's not been without issue. I just think that

0:57:09.200 --> 0:57:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I've overcome those issues, which makes them something I'm alive

0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:18.200
<v Speaker 2>for other people in my organization, and beyond that, those

0:57:18.200 --> 0:57:19.400
<v Speaker 2>struggles are still real.

0:57:19.480 --> 0:57:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Hum really really quite fascinating. Let's jump to our favorite

0:57:23.160 --> 0:57:27.800
<v Speaker 1>questions that we ask all of our guests, starting with

0:57:28.480 --> 0:57:31.120
<v Speaker 1>what have you been entertaining yourself with? What are you

0:57:31.240 --> 0:57:33.160
<v Speaker 1>listening to or watching or streaming?

0:57:34.160 --> 0:57:40.320
<v Speaker 2>So? What guilty? Guilty? What I'm watching? I have? I

0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>love ted Lasso?

0:57:42.120 --> 0:57:42.880
<v Speaker 1>What's not to love?

0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:47.000
<v Speaker 2>It's like, it's a delightful show. It's a brilliant show,

0:57:47.200 --> 0:57:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and I think that it seems too. It's the feel

0:57:52.640 --> 0:57:54.480
<v Speaker 2>good thing we kind of all need at the moment.

0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:56.680
<v Speaker 2>It feels to me as well, So Ted Lasso.

0:57:56.680 --> 0:58:00.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't even think that's a guilty guilty. The writing

0:58:01.040 --> 0:58:04.200
<v Speaker 1>is so sharp. People like that are embarrassed, like, oh,

0:58:04.200 --> 0:58:05.840
<v Speaker 1>I like ted Lasso, Why shouldn't you like that?

0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I find myself quoting ted Lasso, perhaps not Ted Lasso himself,

0:58:11.000 --> 0:58:14.360
<v Speaker 2>but there are definitely points where I may be channeling

0:58:14.400 --> 0:58:20.200
<v Speaker 2>some of the other characters. Definitely podcasts. I well, obviously

0:58:20.240 --> 0:58:21.960
<v Speaker 2>it would be wrong Barry for me not to say

0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:26.920
<v Speaker 2>you but stop stop. But I do find some of

0:58:26.960 --> 0:58:28.960
<v Speaker 2>the Bloomberg series very useful. I find some of the

0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Gold and Stuff very useful. But I also find when

0:58:31.520 --> 0:58:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I dip into you know, talk Easy, or I'll dip

0:58:34.600 --> 0:58:38.720
<v Speaker 2>into Dak Shepherd from time to time, because it's really

0:58:38.800 --> 0:58:42.200
<v Speaker 2>interesting hearing some of that sort of outside arts culture,

0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:46.240
<v Speaker 2>or finding yourself with somebody different, asking people like us

0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:48.240
<v Speaker 2>different questions really intriguing.

0:58:48.560 --> 0:58:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Tell us about your mentors who helped shape your career.

0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Goodness. This isn't an Oscar's exception speech, but I've been

0:58:56.200 --> 0:59:00.439
<v Speaker 2>super lucky through every part from my university day through.

0:59:01.600 --> 0:59:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Here's something I'll admit to. There is not one company

0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:10.200
<v Speaker 2>that I've worked for or regulator that I've worked for

0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:14.560
<v Speaker 2>where I'm not still in touch with my old bosses.

0:59:14.920 --> 0:59:19.320
<v Speaker 2>And that is because they took the time to work

0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:21.760
<v Speaker 2>out who I was and then they put me to work.

0:59:22.360 --> 0:59:26.880
<v Speaker 2>And I will forever be grateful for that willingness to

0:59:26.920 --> 0:59:30.400
<v Speaker 2>step back, not tick a box, but invest in me

0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:32.920
<v Speaker 2>as an individual and then work out what I was

0:59:32.960 --> 0:59:35.800
<v Speaker 2>good at and then make it better. And so there's

0:59:35.840 --> 0:59:38.720
<v Speaker 2>not one person through any part, you know, But I

0:59:38.720 --> 0:59:41.960
<v Speaker 2>would say one of the most transformational mentors or allies

0:59:42.080 --> 0:59:47.560
<v Speaker 2>or sponsors or whatever is Luke. I have had enormous

0:59:47.600 --> 0:59:51.160
<v Speaker 2>benefit from having his confidence, and he has pushed me

0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:52.880
<v Speaker 2>like no one else.

0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Huh. Really really quite intriguing. I very much enjoyed my

0:59:56.640 --> 1:00:01.120
<v Speaker 1>conversation with him. Also fascinating person. He's really fascinating.

1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:02.320
<v Speaker 2>He's everything and more.

1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about some of your favorite books and what

1:00:06.160 --> 1:00:07.000
<v Speaker 1>you're reading lately.

1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:11.080
<v Speaker 2>So living in Japan it gives you a bit of

1:00:11.120 --> 1:00:16.400
<v Speaker 2>an insight of many things. So any Japanese author Murakami,

1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:19.680
<v Speaker 2>minute Murakami puts anything out, I read it, and then

1:00:19.720 --> 1:00:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I read it again.

1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:23.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm assuming you're reading the translated version of English, not

1:00:23.840 --> 1:00:24.400
<v Speaker 1>in the original.

1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you know, I wish I was that smart. I

1:00:26.960 --> 1:00:28.960
<v Speaker 2>tell you something, actually, bar it's a really good point.

1:00:30.120 --> 1:00:34.439
<v Speaker 2>The translators of these books, aren't they gifted? I mean,

1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:37.160
<v Speaker 2>because it's not just a word. It's not like put

1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:39.920
<v Speaker 2>it into Google and see what you get. It's everything,

1:00:39.960 --> 1:00:44.280
<v Speaker 2>And that is fine. That is just an extraordinary capability.

1:00:44.560 --> 1:00:48.400
<v Speaker 2>So anything in that sort of Murakami space, what's open

1:00:48.480 --> 1:00:51.360
<v Speaker 2>on my bedside table right now is that I can't

1:00:51.360 --> 1:00:53.800
<v Speaker 2>tell you how many times I've read it, but is Orlando,

1:00:54.400 --> 1:01:00.920
<v Speaker 2>and really there is something extraordinary about that transformational through time,

1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:06.800
<v Speaker 2>through gender, through experience. There's something that's really quite fascinating.

1:01:06.840 --> 1:01:08.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying it's an easy book to read. I'm

1:01:08.440 --> 1:01:10.320
<v Speaker 2>just saying it just happens to be the one I

1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:13.720
<v Speaker 2>reopened a month ago. I'm still going through.

1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Interesting and now we're down to our final two questions.

1:01:17.480 --> 1:01:19.920
<v Speaker 1>What sort of advice would you give to a recent

1:01:20.120 --> 1:01:24.080
<v Speaker 1>college grad who was thinking about a career in finance?

1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Do it? Would? I mean, I think if don't expect

1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:31.920
<v Speaker 2>it to be what you think it is, experience it

1:01:32.440 --> 1:01:35.200
<v Speaker 2>without any form of prejudice in some ways or without

1:01:35.200 --> 1:01:38.560
<v Speaker 2>any form of expectation. I would also say go for

1:01:38.640 --> 1:01:43.920
<v Speaker 2>it in a take the opportunities what finance does, which

1:01:44.000 --> 1:01:47.720
<v Speaker 2>is I had not anticipated. But it's why I'm still

1:01:47.720 --> 1:01:53.280
<v Speaker 2>in it is it's fast, it's intellectually demanding, it has

1:01:53.840 --> 1:01:58.720
<v Speaker 2>reached beyond its real estate footprint. It has impact, it

1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:03.080
<v Speaker 2>is topical, it covers geopolitical risk. There isn't a part

1:02:03.160 --> 1:02:05.800
<v Speaker 2>of the world on society it doesn't impact, and if

1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:11.120
<v Speaker 2>you embrace it on that basis, the opportunities are actually endless.

1:02:11.800 --> 1:02:15.560
<v Speaker 2>So be yourself, go for it. Don't think too much

1:02:15.560 --> 1:02:18.120
<v Speaker 2>about ladders and what your next title is or whatever

1:02:18.160 --> 1:02:21.240
<v Speaker 2>of that stuff is. Just immerse yourself in it and

1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:22.800
<v Speaker 2>take every opportunity that's given to you.

1:02:23.080 --> 1:02:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Really interesting advice, and our final question, what do you

1:02:26.360 --> 1:02:29.959
<v Speaker 1>know about the world of investing and finance and hedge

1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:32.640
<v Speaker 1>funds for that matter, that you wish you knew twenty

1:02:32.640 --> 1:02:35.800
<v Speaker 1>five thirty years ago when you were first starting out.

1:02:36.400 --> 1:02:41.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I wish i'd known anything. I think

1:02:42.160 --> 1:02:52.240
<v Speaker 2>that my slightly wide eyed, slightly intrigued, slightly uneducated start

1:02:52.240 --> 1:02:57.400
<v Speaker 2>point in finance was almost a gift because my expectations

1:02:57.440 --> 1:03:00.320
<v Speaker 2>weren't there because I didn't need to know, as I

1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:04.360
<v Speaker 2>just was hungry to learn, because I didn't really think

1:03:04.400 --> 1:03:08.040
<v Speaker 2>about corporate structure and where my next job was, and

1:03:09.040 --> 1:03:13.680
<v Speaker 2>it was freeing. And I look back on my career

1:03:13.720 --> 1:03:15.560
<v Speaker 2>and I look back on the experiences, and I look

1:03:15.600 --> 1:03:18.520
<v Speaker 2>back on the people, some of whom now still work

1:03:18.640 --> 1:03:22.320
<v Speaker 2>for me, and I'm not sure i'd changed that, and

1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:24.600
<v Speaker 2>so I'm okay with where I was.

1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Quite fascinating. Robin, thank you for being so generous with

1:03:28.680 --> 1:03:32.360
<v Speaker 1>your time. This has been absolutely intriguing. We have been

1:03:32.440 --> 1:03:37.320
<v Speaker 1>speaking with Robin Grew. She is the incoming chief executive

1:03:37.360 --> 1:03:42.400
<v Speaker 1>officer at Man Group. If you enjoy this conversation, well,

1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:44.240
<v Speaker 1>be sure and check out any of the other five

1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:47.280
<v Speaker 1>hundred or so we've done over the past eight years.

1:03:47.320 --> 1:03:52.480
<v Speaker 1>You can find those at Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, or wherever

1:03:52.560 --> 1:03:56.280
<v Speaker 1>you find your favorite podcasts. Be sure and sign up

1:03:56.320 --> 1:03:59.360
<v Speaker 1>for our daily reads at reholts dot com. Follow me

1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:03.320
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at Ridholts, follow all of the fine family

1:04:03.440 --> 1:04:08.200
<v Speaker 1>of Bloomberg Podcasts at Podcasts. I would be remiss if

1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:10.280
<v Speaker 1>I did not thank the crack team that helps put

1:04:10.320 --> 1:04:15.440
<v Speaker 1>these conversations together each week. Bob Bragg is my audio engineer.

1:04:15.680 --> 1:04:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Attika of Albron is our project manager. Paris Wald is

1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:23.440
<v Speaker 1>our producer. Sean Russo is my head of research. I'm

1:04:23.480 --> 1:04:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Barry Ridholts. You've been listening to Masters in Business on

1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio.