1
00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:06,000
Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with very Rid Holds on

2
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. This week on the podcast, another extra special guest,

3
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: Robin Grew, President of man Group one hundred and forty

4
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,959
Speaker 1: five billion dollar publicly traded hedge funds in the UK

5
00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,280
Speaker 1: and soon to be Man Groups CEO. This is a

6
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation about business growth and leadership and management, how

7
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: to run a team, how to recruit and retain the

8
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: best people, and how to use technology as a tool

9
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,320
Speaker 1: to give you an edge not just in investing, but

10
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:51,239
Speaker 1: in the ability to offer clients various solutions improving your efficiency,

11
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 1: effectiveness and productivity as a company. I found this to

12
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: just be a fascinating masterclass in running a giant financial organization,

13
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 1: and I think you will also so with no further ado,

14
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:13,080
Speaker 1: my conversation with Man Groups incoming CEO, Robin Grew.

15
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,040
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Barry.

16
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this for a while and

17
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,360
Speaker 1: when we first booked you you were like a junior analyst.

18
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 1: Then suddenly in the ensuing weeks you can get tagged

19
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: to be CEO. That has to be a little bit

20
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 1: of a surreal experience.

21
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,679
Speaker 2: It is nothing short of surreal. This is obviously new

22
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,320
Speaker 2: news for this particular podcast, and it is you hear

23
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 2: the words that people say, you know, it's an honor

24
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 2: and it's a privilege, and it sounds a little trite,

25
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,640
Speaker 2: and then you find yourself in one of these rare

26
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,319
Speaker 2: positions where somebody is asking you to take on the

27
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 2: CEO and I have to tell you I'm mean it

28
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 2: very authentically. It's an honor and it's a privilege, and

29
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 2: it is slightly surreal and.

30
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 1: For a little context, maybe for some of the audience

31
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: in America who may not be that familiar with Man Group.

32
00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 1: This isn't like a startup. This traces its roots back

33
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,160
Speaker 1: to eighteenth century sugar trading. Right, how old is Man Group.

34
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 2: Well, it's two hundred and forty years old. Put it

35
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 2: that way, seventeen eighty three, and you're right. It traces

36
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,000
Speaker 2: its way back to sugar trading and at one point

37
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,919
Speaker 2: being the monopolistic supplier of rum to the Royal Navy,

38
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 2: which and in those days that was important because everybody

39
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,360
Speaker 2: had a ration in the Royal Navy and everybody wanted

40
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,919
Speaker 2: to use it. And it's the journey, isn't it. It's

41
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 2: the journey of organizations to continue to be relevant. So

42
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 2: two hundred and forty years ago, it's a conversation I

43
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 2: have with people, which is, if we didn't keep changing,

44
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,359
Speaker 2: we'd still be making barrels on the side of the

45
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,399
Speaker 2: River Thames and trading sugar and hoping that the Royal

46
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,080
Speaker 2: Navy still needed a lot of rum. So that's not

47
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 2: where we are today. But the routes are deep and

48
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 2: now we you know, we're just a shive one hundred

49
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 2: and forty five billion dollars of assets under management across

50
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 2: the entire credit curve, trading through US and quant through

51
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 2: discretionary and private markets, reaching investors all over the world.

52
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 1: So we're going to spend a little more time delving

53
00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 1: deep into man groups practice. Let's start with your background, sure,

54
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 1: which doesn't quite go back two hundred and seventy four.

55
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Sam.

56
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 1: You went to law school. Were the plans to become

57
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: a solicitor or a barrister? That that's not the thought

58
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 1: process of someone who wants to go into find it.

59
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 2: You're spot on. I actually qualified as a barrister, which

60
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 2: is the fun words I went to the bar. People

61
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 2: use that all the time to describe me, and you're

62
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 2: right I had thought I was going to be an advocate,

63
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 2: quite frankly, a barrister, you know, the one with the

64
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 2: wigs and the gowns that you see on TV. My

65
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 2: roots were very or reasonably humble. My dad was a

66
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,680
Speaker 2: public GP, you know, in the National Health Service in England,

67
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 2: and my mum was a public school teacher, and quite frankly,

68
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 2: I know what financial services was. It was this thing

69
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 2: that existed somewhere else. And so when I went to

70
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 2: law school and went to the bar, I had every

71
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 2: thought that I was just going to be a barrister

72
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 2: and be another vocational professional in my family.

73
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 1: When did it enter your mind that hey, this finance

74
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 1: stuff looks kind of interesting.

75
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 2: It entered my mind when very early on I found

76
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,159
Speaker 2: myself in a position where I was looking at a

77
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,839
Speaker 2: brief that had come to me, and it was yet

78
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:43,680
Speaker 2: another sort of sketchy criminal defense, a piece where I

79
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 2: had to go and interview a client who had been

80
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,799
Speaker 2: arrested because he had been out on bail and escaped bail.

81
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 2: And I went to a very old magistrates court in

82
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 2: London at Bow Street. It's very close to Covent Garden

83
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 2: and very old cells and the doors of these cells

84
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 2: were built for men, and you, Barry, you have the

85
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 2: you have the benefit of seeing how short I am

86
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,159
Speaker 2: or talk five five foot nothing, And so I couldn't

87
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 2: see through the little window. I just couldn't reach it, right,

88
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 2: I just it wasn't apul So the guards and it

89
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,840
Speaker 2: had to actually stay sort of open the door and

90
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 2: they had to stand either side of me, and they

91
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 2: were worried about me because my client was so out

92
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,480
Speaker 2: of his head on whatever it was he had taken

93
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,600
Speaker 2: that they were actually worried for my safety. And I

94
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 2: went home that night and I went, do you know what,

95
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 2: I might not want to do this forever. This might

96
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,600
Speaker 2: not be this might not be a good idea. And

97
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,920
Speaker 2: I thought, I know what I'll do. I will go

98
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,640
Speaker 2: into commerce. That's what I thought. I will go into commerce,

99
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,480
Speaker 2: or go into business, and then I will go back

100
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,640
Speaker 2: and I will be a commercial barrister where they don't

101
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 2: have to get lists into cells and see whether and

102
00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 2: be worried about the safety they have to deal with

103
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 2: people like me. Now, So that's what the plan was.

104
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,359
Speaker 2: And so it was a plan to get into this space,

105
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,480
Speaker 2: get experienced from being an insider in business, and go back.

106
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,800
Speaker 2: And I got hooked. I just never went back.

107
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: What was the first job in commerce?

108
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 2: In commerce. So there was an advertisement in the newspaper.

109
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,480
Speaker 2: That's a thing, that's how what I am. There was

110
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 2: an advertisement in a newspaper for Fidelity, and I thought, well,

111
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 2: that sounds interesting. They wanted they wanted to have new

112
00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,279
Speaker 2: kind of graduates, postgraduate type people to come and do

113
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 2: a round robin. And that's also expression that that gets

114
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,480
Speaker 2: used with me a lot. And so I applied and

115
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 2: I sent in a letter and I said, yes, it

116
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,160
Speaker 2: sounds terribly interesting. Can you give me a shot at this?

117
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,839
Speaker 2: And I got invited to this interview thing. And it

118
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 2: was a thing because I turned up and there are

119
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,600
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty people in a room. It was

120
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,279
Speaker 2: a Cata caul and totally new to me, and I

121
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,640
Speaker 2: had no idea that this is what happened. So I

122
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,839
Speaker 2: just chatted to everybody I met.

123
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm just chatting online while you're waiting to go for

124
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:09,359
Speaker 1: the interview.

125
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're just you don't know when you're being

126
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 2: interviewed and when you're not being interviewed. Quite frankly, it

127
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 2: was one of the come and meet these people, and

128
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 2: it was I had a great time. I'm a chatty

129
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 2: kind of individual, and off I went round the room,

130
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 2: chatted for a couple of hours and then left and

131
00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 2: drove home. And I was rung the next day and

132
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 2: they said, we really, really would would you like to

133
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,960
Speaker 2: come and join us? And I said, yes, for sure,

134
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 2: let's do that then, and I bounced around. Yes. I

135
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 2: did some legal staff and reg staff, but I you know,

136
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,800
Speaker 2: I went in on the weekends when we did the

137
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,440
Speaker 2: stock certificate count and counted share certificates. That it was

138
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,880
Speaker 2: that long ago. I did early tech kind of pieces.

139
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 2: I manned client call phones, I did everything, and it

140
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 2: was a bit of a blast. It was this kind

141
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 2: of thing of being in the center of for delicious

142
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 2: brokerage arm at that point, not its asset management, it's

143
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 2: brokerage piece.

144
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 1: And then this is late eighties or early nineties.

145
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 2: And then I was exactly and then I was called

146
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 2: into I was called in ninety one, so in that

147
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,040
Speaker 2: nineties period, and then I was called by and by

148
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 2: a headhunter, by a recruiter who said, listen, there's this.

149
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 2: I spent a couple of years at Fidelity. By this time,

150
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 2: there's a role at this thing called life or Liffy, right,

151
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,680
Speaker 2: And they really need somebody who understands a criminal law.

152
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,320
Speaker 2: And they need it because when they conduct interviews, uh,

153
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 2: it's undertaken under this Police and Criminal eavendon Xact thing.

154
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,320
Speaker 2: In other words, it's done in a way that whatever

155
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,199
Speaker 2: is said in that interview could be brought as evidence

156
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,480
Speaker 2: in a court. And I said, well, I know, I know,

157
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,679
Speaker 2: I know that bit of it. I've done. I've done

158
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,080
Speaker 2: that bit. And so I turned up to Life.

159
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,280
Speaker 1: What was the commerce of Liffy.

160
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 2: So it's an exchange, it's an open outcry exchange. In fact,

161
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 2: at that time the biggest open outcry exchange in Europe

162
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,439
Speaker 2: and we had it was a time when Life was

163
00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 2: biggest in the bund contract.

164
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: So I have to ask why the concern about future

165
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: criminal evidence? That seems sort of at odds.

166
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 2: I know, right. So what happens is when you work

167
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 2: in an open outcry environment, there are training practices that

168
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,720
Speaker 2: get investigated. And those training practices are quite they're fun,

169
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,839
Speaker 2: they're interesting, and they're complex because it's all about hand signals.

170
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,960
Speaker 1: Right, and everybody's word is their bond or their gesture.

171
00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 2: Right, And so you're looking at at that point very

172
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 2: forward thinking videotaped evidence. You've got pit observers, and you

173
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 2: are trying to piece if there are malpractices or going on.

174
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,679
Speaker 2: You need to piece that all together. And so at

175
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 2: that point you are you are building a case. You

176
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,040
Speaker 2: are running a market investigations team which is looking at

177
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,479
Speaker 2: ensuring proper conduct. From a regulatory perspective, you are the regulator.

178
00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,800
Speaker 2: You are managing the efficacy of those markets and across

179
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 2: futures and options. And so I went to an interview

180
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 2: and they said how much do you know about futures

181
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,840
Speaker 2: and options? And I said, not a lot. In fact,

182
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 2: I said, And there's a chat who I'm still in

183
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,080
Speaker 2: touch with who repeats this at regular interviews. To my embarrassment,

184
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 2: he says, you said, you know a postage stamp and

185
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 2: you know really large writing. That's how much I know.

186
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 2: But I'm a super quick learner, right and for good

187
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,360
Speaker 2: and for bad and for my benefit, they hired me.

188
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,680
Speaker 1: How long did you stay with Liffy Life?

189
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,520
Speaker 2: A couple of years? Just over again. And then I

190
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 2: got another call. I know, this seems to be a process.

191
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,679
Speaker 2: So I got a call, and this one was ultimately

192
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 2: from a recruiter who was working for Lehman Brothers, an

193
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 2: investment bank, a bond.

194
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 1: House, another one that's a few hundred years old.

195
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 2: And another one that was a few hundred years old,

196
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,559
Speaker 2: again set set up by you know brothers and all

197
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,160
Speaker 2: the rest of it. So and that was another conversation

198
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 2: where they were looking for somebody, quite frankly, who had

199
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: some sort of futures options style of experience, because they

200
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,439
Speaker 2: wanted somebody to go and sit on a fixed income floor.

201
00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 1: Right. I wanted to say, the criminal background turned out

202
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,199
Speaker 1: not to hurt you.

203
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,200
Speaker 2: No, thanks for that. We'll talk about that later, you know.

204
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 2: So the sense of again another opportunity just sort of

205
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 2: thrown in my way. And as I joined Lehman Brothers,

206
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 2: it was the first time that Russia had had a

207
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 2: little bit of a crisis. Andy eight correct, correct spot on.

208
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 2: And I was thrown at a Okay, we now need

209
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 2: to know what have we got in Russia, what's our exposure,

210
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,199
Speaker 2: what our legal contracts? How does this work? And I

211
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,640
Speaker 2: was one of many, many people, but talk about landing

212
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 2: and the rubber hitting the road, And at that point

213
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,680
Speaker 2: Lehman share price had its first sort of crumbs moment,

214
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,199
Speaker 2: and that was fascinating to just be in the inner

215
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,440
Speaker 2: working baptisms of fire I sort of enjoy I shouldn't probably.

216
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: Was a phrase that popped into my head as soon

217
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 1: as you it is right.

218
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 2: It was a baptism of fire, and it was something

219
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 2: which was phenomenal to actually be part of. But for

220
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,679
Speaker 2: the fact that you're living it, does that make sense?

221
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 2: It's as an academic exercise marvelous. When you're in the

222
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,319
Speaker 2: middle of it, you're kind of so caught in it.

223
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 2: And I ended up on working on the fixed income

224
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 2: floors until.

225
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 1: You're working in London, not in New York.

226
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 2: Correct, working in London, and again the first time i'd

227
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 2: worked on the cell side, and that's where I sort

228
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 2: of feel I had my biggest growth and my growing

229
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 2: up was in that Lehman Brothers phase. But in part

230
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,120
Speaker 2: because I again benefited from being in the mix. When

231
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 2: we were the second bank that was raided by the

232
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 2: Japanese regulators after they'd gone into credit Suee and the

233
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,680
Speaker 2: Japanese regulators were having a tough time with cross collatoralization

234
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 2: and issues about whether there were balance sheet accounting issues.

235
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 1: Is this how you ended up living in Tokyo? It

236
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,200
Speaker 1: is how long were you there?

237
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 2: For so well. For the year of that first year

238
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 2: of the investigation, I flew back and forth to London.

239
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,679
Speaker 2: This is becoming a theme with me flying back to

240
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,199
Speaker 2: Force London and then after that another two and a

241
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 2: half years where we actually lived in Japan. Fabulous.

242
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,360
Speaker 1: Tokyo was supposed to be an amazing city.

243
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 2: It's extraordinary and brilliant, And the things you learn when

244
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 2: you live overseas, I'm not sure I can never really

245
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,559
Speaker 2: put a value on those experiences, being responsible for a

246
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 2: region in which you are very much alien, in that

247
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 2: space where you have to learn cultural cues in the

248
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 2: ways that you've never had to understand them before, where

249
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 2: you're navigating different countries and different relationships between those countries,

250
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 2: which are also tricky. Leman had its headquarters for Asia

251
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,440
Speaker 2: Pack unusually in Tokyo. Most others had a kind of

252
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 2: a Hong Kong piece or a Singapore piece and then

253
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 2: ex Japan piece of it. That wasn't how Liman did it.

254
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 2: So being responsible for Asia Pak was from a Tokyo

255
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 2: base was brilliant.

256
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 1: Quite fascinating. So you were very successful at Leman. You

257
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 1: kind of worked your way up the ranks there. What

258
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 1: else did you focus on outside of putting out fires

259
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: in Japan.

260
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,600
Speaker 2: Well, after running and building up that sort of that team,

261
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 2: I hired my successor, by the way, fabulous thing to do.

262
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 2: I suggest everybody does that, actually, I mean genuinely. We

263
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 2: can talk about it later, but that ability to hire

264
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 2: tremendously strong quality people around you is I think being

265
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 2: a an enormous opportunity and provides you with opportunity, one

266
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 2: with opportunity to move on and do more. So I

267
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 2: got a call. I got a call from the US

268
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,000
Speaker 2: who said, hey, how'd your fancy coming to the US,

269
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:18,280
Speaker 2: And that again was to work at Lehman's headquarters. Fabulous opportunity.

270
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 2: So if we went from Japan to New York, that

271
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 2: was a cultural change.

272
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, say to say the very least, Lehman was very

273
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 1: much a hyper aggressive, macho culture. Dick Fold's nickname was

274
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: the Gorilla. What was it like working in that sort of,

275
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, very much bro culture.

276
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,400
Speaker 2: And I'm slightly worried I'm going to disappoint you with

277
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 2: this answer, but it was fabulous. I had the best time,

278
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 2: and I never encountered that sense of being overwhelmed by

279
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 2: a masculine, overtly bullying kind of culture. In fact, some

280
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 2: of the early work that I did on diversity and

281
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 2: inclusion was that Lehman in New York and was sponsored

282
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 2: by people like Joe Gregory, who was just a real

283
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 2: champion of that that content. So maybe maybe I'm maybe

284
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 2: I'm thick skinned or something, but the truth of the

285
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 2: matter is I loved it. I enjoyed it, and I

286
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 2: think Lehman was I owe a lot to my experiences

287
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 2: of that organization.

288
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 1: As much as Lehman spectacularly crashed and burned in the

289
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: financial crisis, everybody I know who worked there really liked it.

290
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: It was a pure meritocracy. Absolutely, They didn't care if

291
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,680
Speaker 1: you made money, it didn't matter, right, And yeah, it

292
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 1: was a little sharp elbowed. It was a tough place

293
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 1: to work, but people who came through that said it

294
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: was the best experience professionally of their.

295
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 2: Lives, absolutely right. And you know, they had a phrase

296
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 2: which I still use. You know, when you get at

297
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 2: that point in investment banking, you ended up with those

298
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 2: loose sights with various things that you're supposed to a

299
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,360
Speaker 2: mousematch with the little banking things whatever. And they had

300
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 2: one phrase, and I still use it, which is be smart,

301
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 2: be dumb. And it's kind of a piece you're smart,

302
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 2: be dumb, be smart, be dumb. And what that really

303
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 2: translated into was, if you don't understand something that's going on,

304
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 2: if you're in a meeting, you don't get it. If

305
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 2: you're outside of a meeting, don't get it, say something.

306
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,360
Speaker 2: Actually ask the question, because you'd be surprised how many

307
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 2: people can't answer the can't answer the question, by the way,

308
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 2: but also it's it's okay not to know everything. It's

309
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 2: the only way you learn. And I still use that.

310
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,159
Speaker 2: I might have it quite I don't have it on

311
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 2: a loose sight anymore, but I absolutely believe that to

312
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 2: be the case. If you don't get it, ask a question.

313
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to know everything in the room, that's

314
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: not the point, but I would like to understand what's

315
00:17:59,800 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 2: going on.

316
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 1: Huh. Really really intriguing. So let's talk a little bit

317
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: about the history. For those listening who might not be

318
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 1: familiar with a MAN group, what is its focus and specialties?

319
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,240
Speaker 1: Who are its clients?

320
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 2: So Man is a as you said, one hundred and

321
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 2: near one hundred and forty five billion dollar hedge fund.

322
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 2: It's there too, and long only it's not just a

323
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 2: hedge fund. It's not just doing longshore. It's doing long only.

324
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 2: It's got private markets, it's through the credit curve. It

325
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,479
Speaker 2: has core business engines which are driven via style. So

326
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 2: we have large quant businesses CTA and equity compt businesses.

327
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 2: We have a discretionary business what some of you might

328
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 2: have already been familiar with in GLG. We have a

329
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 2: private markets business just focused really on real estate and

330
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 2: that the single family real estate ownership piece and community housing.

331
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 2: And then we have something called solutions, and the solutions

332
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 2: piece is the piece where we work with, in effect,

333
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 2: our institutional clients. We're an institutional client business, but those

334
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 2: institutional clients are pension funds, they're endowments. They are looking

335
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 2: after the pensions and the savings of real individuals, the

336
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 2: individuals that my mum and dad right, the doctors, the teachers,

337
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 2: the metal workers in Holland, wherever they may be. And

338
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 2: we partner with those institutions to return value. And that's

339
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 2: our only goal. When we come in in the morning,

340
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 2: we think about who the real underlying clients are here

341
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 2: and how we partner and ensure that we're returning alpha.

342
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 2: We're an active manager, and that solutions piece is how

343
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,880
Speaker 2: we create bespoke solutions. So we'll take elements or particular

344
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 2: strategies from each part of our discretionary strategy and match

345
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: it with a quant strategy and return it to clients

346
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,600
Speaker 2: because we understand and we work with them on their portfolio,

347
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 2: their exposure, what they need to achieve, their risk management,

348
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 2: to create something that is bespoke for them.

349
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 1: That's very interesting because the typical fund is this is

350
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: our strategy, take it or leave it right, that's pretty

351
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: much it. You sort of have a one foot in

352
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: the financial planning asset management side and another side in

353
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 1: actual fund management. What are the advantages of marrying those

354
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: two together?

355
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 2: I think the reality for me is that more and

356
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 2: more institutional clients need something in a separate managed account.

357
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 2: They want something that's bespoke to them and the portfolio

358
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 2: risk or construction that they need answers to. These are

359
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 2: long strategic relationships where we are investing time and effort

360
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: in partnership within these institutions to understand what their portfolio

361
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 2: construction needs to look like, what they want to achieve,

362
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 2: and then we are part of helping them understand that

363
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 2: and helping them deliver a solution that we can provide

364
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 2: to them to address certain issues. So maybe it's the

365
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 2: combination of strategies. Maybe it's a combination of strategies with

366
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,959
Speaker 2: additional transparency or additional liquidity. Maybe it's leverage. Maybe it's

367
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 2: a tail protection. Maybe it's an overlay hetch. Maybe it's

368
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 2: any number of these things. The capability that man has

369
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 2: to do that is what we have spent time and

370
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: energy and money on and technology on. Let's be clear,

371
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 2: we talk about tech, and I'm sure we'll cover it later.

372
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 2: We talk about how we deploy tech, and we think

373
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: about tech within that quant space, but we deploy technology

374
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 2: throughout the organization to give us scale and capability that

375
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,360
Speaker 2: we use to service our clients.

376
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 1: So let's stay with that before we get to the

377
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: tech side of it. All the entities you referred to,

378
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: various foundations and institutions and pensions, many of them have

379
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: a future liability, meaning they have an obligation to pay

380
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: out a certain amount of money to a certain class

381
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: of beneficiaries at some point in the future. So when

382
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: you're just gribing bespoke strategies, I'm assuming you're targeting those

383
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: future liabilities for each of those entities.

384
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: It can be that it can be anything that they want.

385
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: In reality, we are much more about understanding client needs.

386
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 2: And remember they have, as you know, vast portfolios trillions

387
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: of dollars that they're putting to work. We're part of that,

388
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 2: and doing absent understanding what they're trying to achieve is

389
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: less efficient potentially for them. So let me give you

390
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: an example of what I mean by this. I was

391
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: speaking to a couple of clients in the last couple

392
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: of days and they were talking to me and they said, listen,

393
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: what we really would like to do is sit down

394
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: with you, and that there are two or three areas.

395
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 2: And I was like, terrific, What do you want to

396
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: talk about? And they said, well, first of all, we'd

397
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: like to understand data and how you manage data and

398
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: how you manage your technology in that. I said great.

399
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: And then they said, and then the second thing is,

400
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: we'd really like your help in understanding our portfolio construction

401
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 2: and whether what we think it's doing is what it's doing,

402
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: or whether we've got correlation where we didn't think we'd

403
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: have correlation, or how we're positioned. And we said, sure,

404
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: we've got tools that can help you do that. And

405
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: then the third thing they said, I really want to

406
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: talk to you about how you're achieving diversity and equity

407
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: and inclusion.

408
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: Realized that comes up.

409
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 2: And so I was like, Okay, we can talk to

410
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: you about that too. The point is it's not just

411
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: about delivering a fund. Here's a product, let me flog

412
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 2: it to you. It's about a much deeper relationship for us,

413
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: and it's about delivering all of the firm, not just

414
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 2: part of the firm. And that is important to us

415
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: because I think we do a better job. And by

416
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: the way, I'll put this in there as well, we

417
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 2: believe in making our you know, our clients smarter and

418
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 2: better because they make us smarter and better in return.

419
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: There's a there's an interesting piece. I was on a

420
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: podcast listening to Frandly bol it's actually the other day,

421
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 2: and she was talking about the massive loss we had

422
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: in the eighties with the aid crisis of artists. But

423
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: she made this really great point, which is it wasn't

424
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: just the artist we lost it. We lost the audience.

425
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: We lost the discerning audience in that process too. And

426
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 2: it resonated with a bit me about how we think

427
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: about man. We want our clients to be smarter and

428
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: better and equipped with what we can give them because

429
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: they hold us as we hold ourselves accountable. They're the

430
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 2: better audience that makes the better performance.

431
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: Really really quite interesting. So we'll circle back to diversity

432
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: inclusion ESG a little later. Let's stay with technology for

433
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: a minute. How is man deploying new technologies? What are

434
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: you using in your quant work, your trading and how

435
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: does this infiltrate the entire organization?

436
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 2: Well, it's a cinema and let me say, you know,

437
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: we view technology and the adoption of AI technology as

438
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: a fundamental part of innovation, and it's useful across our

439
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: entire organization in the investment process but also through trading

440
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: and execution. It's used at every single juncture. We're constantly

441
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: looking to align the latest technology and latest techniques with

442
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: our underlying investment philosophies, not the other way around. Does

443
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 2: that make sense? So it's one are the tools that

444
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: make us better at delivering what we do. New technologies

445
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: are on a replacement for me, they're rather a compliment

446
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: to what we are trying to achieve, and we're never

447
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: going to be reliant on one technology. This space is

448
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: moving so quickly. It's about adopting the new, finding its application,

449
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: seeing whether we can gain alpha from it, whether it

450
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: makes a smarter whether it allows us to commodifize something

451
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: which reduces costs, whatever it may be, and making that happen.

452
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: I think AI can do much more, for example, than

453
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: just automate. It's innovative, it can increase productivity. We use

454
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: it as part of our processing of data, of large data,

455
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: of looking at our models, at looking portfolio construction. We

456
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: have used it for example for ESG prediction metrics. Let's

457
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: look about whether where we see weather cycles, we look

458
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: at it. And we use it in neuro linguistic programming

459
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: to look to make sense of sentiment in and your

460
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 2: reporting for example. So so many different applications by nature.

461
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: As you know, Barry, we are an open source space.

462
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: We love it. Our developers love it. I mean, I

463
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: wish I was as smart as a developer, but our

464
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 2: developers love open source. It makes them better. When you

465
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: look at GitHub, which is one of these mechanisms which

466
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure most people know. I think we're number two

467
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: on GitHub. But it's this sense of open source technology

468
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: where we use it as much as we can within

469
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 2: the organization, but we're always interested in what else is

470
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 2: out there, so we're not frightened by tech development. We

471
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: want to use it, but we don't depart from philosophically

472
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: where we start and what we need it for.

473
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been a little bit of a backlash against

474
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: things like various AI and chat bots and etc. To me,

475
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: it's always been a tool. All this technology is a

476
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: tool that makes people more productive, more effective, more efficient.

477
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: I've never thought, hey, chat GBT is going to put

478
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: all of us out of business. It's something that can

479
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: be used to the betterment of our work product, and

480
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: it sounds like that's integral to Man's philosophy.

481
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: Kind of agree. Chat GPT is clearly the greatest disruptor

482
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: we've had in the last year. It's been It's been

483
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: given some really quite momentous bylines as well, but it's

484
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: certainly a massive disruptor from my perspective. If you think

485
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: about it negatively, you're missing the mark, right.

486
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: It's it's sure it hallucinates occasionally.

487
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: But but but well, I was going to say something,

488
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: who doesn't, No, that's not true. It's it's but it's

489
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 2: also not going to be the first or the last

490
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 2: piece of AI technology. This isn't a well we've got

491
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 2: chat GPT and now therefore with data that's not going

492
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: to happen. And this this sort of semi hysterical fear

493
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 2: of it, I think is all wrong. There is there

494
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: are undoubtedly going to be benefits for us being able

495
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 2: to use technology to capture large data sources. Look at

496
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: what we've done. And you know, I'm talking to a

497
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: man at Bloomberg, so you will know this. But we

498
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: talked about open architecture a minute ago, and look at

499
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: what we've done with this Arctic dB. So this is

500
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: a piece of technology. We've developed a man group which

501
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: in effect is a super charge database. You know, it's

502
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: able to process large chunks of data which we're all

503
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: trying to deal with in a much more fashion and

504
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: effective way. We actually open sourced it back in twenty fifteen.

505
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: It's first version. But in one of those moments where

506
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: you've got to be carefully or not drinking your own

507
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: cool aid of a bit and we talk about tech

508
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: all the time, we went to Bloomberg and we said, listen,

509
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: we've got this cool piece of kit. Would you like

510
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: to take a look at it? And we came to

511
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: Bloomberg because if there's one place that has a phenomenal

512
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: tech space and a qatrillion developers and all the rest

513
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: of it, it's Bloomberg. So we came here and we

514
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: were testing ourselves back to that audience thing, show me

515
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: how whether we can be better at this, and show

516
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: me whether we've kidded ourselves. Is this really? Is this

517
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: really the thing? And after months and months, it now

518
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: in the hands of Bloomberg and it's been endorsed us

519
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 2: that as a program that is in the mix and

520
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: is part of the Bloomberg offering in that space. So

521
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: we checked our audience. We worked out with a wind

522
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: drink in the kool aid. But it shows you the

523
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: sort of the way that we think about tech and

524
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: how we think about it as something that makes us

525
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: all better. But I will be super clear, it's only

526
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: part of what we have. We have a million models,

527
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: we have our own technology, we have our own philosophical

528
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: investment ideas within each of our engines, and we use

529
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: tech to make us better at that.

530
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: Huh. That sounds quite fascinating. Let's discuss the major divisions

531
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: that at Man Group. I want to try and wrap

532
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: my arms around. First, what is man AHL.

533
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: Okay, so think of we have two let me do

534
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: it in a slightly different way. We have two cont engines.

535
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: One is Numerican, one is AHL CTA Macro big trading hubin.

536
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: When I hear CTA, I think kamal is that.

537
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: Was where it was originally coming from. But it's much

538
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: more than that. And then equities rus Premia long only

539
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: piece in Numeric which is also quant GELG. Third engine

540
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 2: discretionary human beings people like you and me. And by

541
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: the way, the way I started at the firm was

542
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: through Georg. That was an acquisition, which is something that

543
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: we know is part and parcel of how Man has

544
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: grown over the years. So Georg discretionary portfolio management. Then

545
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 2: you have what is FRM MSL. So that's that solutions

546
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: piece we talked about earlier. Although FRM was and you've

547
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: spoken to Luke before, so the fund funds business, which

548
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: was also an acquisition, but that's rolled in solution as well.

549
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: And we have still got a fund of funds business

550
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: where people might have thought in the past that that

551
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 2: was a dying part, not so much. People need some

552
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: help when it comes to selection. Also of managers. That

553
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: are out there, and that's still something that we are

554
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: part and part love. And then the fifth piece is

555
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: that private market space where we have that real estate

556
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: piece that we talked about earlier, and we within each

557
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: of those engines, we also have credit offerings as part

558
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: of that.

559
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: Huh really quite fascinating. So let's talk a little bit

560
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: about your approach to leadership. You've managed to distinguish yourself

561
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: in a very competitive field. Tell us how.

562
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: Here's the answer. Everyone, It's not true, I tell you

563
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: in perhaps this is a way of thinking about it.

564
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: What I have done, perhaps is the better way of

565
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: saying who I and how I distinguish myself. What I've

566
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: done is taken every single opportunity that has come my way.

567
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: And I so no master plan. This just you just

568
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: stumbled blindly from one gig to the next.

569
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the perfect way of summing it up.

570
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: The way of summing it up is this. If you'd

571
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: have asked me twenty five years ago, do you think

572
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: you'll be the CEO of an investment management company? I laughed, right,

573
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: I would have done. I didn't have a grand master plan.

574
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: What I did have was a somewhat insatiable desire to

575
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: learn and have some fun doing so that. I loved

576
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: being a fixer. I loved being put on planes or

577
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: being sent into areas to solve things. I have innately

578
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: hired people around me and built teams of highly credible

579
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: quality people who I have empowered and who I have

580
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: loved to partner in achieving whatever it was that we

581
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: needed to achieve, better, faster, smarter than before. And that

582
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: empowerment piece is huge. The ability to not have to

583
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: be the fact in a different way, if I am

584
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: the smartest person.

585
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: In the room, you've done something wrong.

586
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: I worry. I mean, that's not okay. So on that

587
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: basis leadership style, hire brilliant people, Put great minds around you,

588
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: Put people around you who are willing to disagree with you,

589
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: or better still, stop you careering off a cliff if

590
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: you're heading in the wrong direction way. I can't tell

591
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: you how many times that that is just as important

592
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: of the sort of the rugby tackle to your knees bit,

593
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 2: if you've suddenly got yourself into a frame of this

594
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: is where we're going. And I have enormously benefited from

595
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: that style of management, which is inclusive. It's about delegation,

596
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: and it's about empowering people to sometimes be really horrible.

597
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: So let's stick with the delegation and the empowerment because

598
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: those are key themes. You don't sound like you're a

599
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: micro manager. You sound like you tell people this is

600
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: what we want you to do, tell us what you

601
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: need to get it done, and now go do it.

602
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: That's our job as great leaders. And I mean that

603
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: sounded arrogant. I don't mean that I'm just anyone any leaders.

604
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: I think any great leader, any capable leader. Maybe that's

605
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: a better way of framing you, any capable leader. That's

606
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: one of the hallmarks. It feels to me high great

607
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: people empower them if they can't deliver. If you've got

608
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: the wrong person, change the person, don't micromanage, don't find

609
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: the fix in making it. You do the job or

610
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: somebody else. Swap swap, that's right, And so that has

611
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: always been away. I also find that really smart people

612
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: want that they want to be given the keys. They

613
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: want to run these things. And the smartest people know

614
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: when they don't know. The most frightening person is the

615
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 2: person who doesn't know. They don't know. The best person

616
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 2: who works for you is the one who goes, yet

617
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 2: don't know the answer this, leave it with me, or

618
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 2: we've got to find the best solution here, not the

619
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 2: perfect solution here. You've got to be able to move dynamically.

620
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: You have to be able to think, You have to

621
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: be able to find solutions and be execution driven. If

622
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: you're working with me.

623
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: So you clearly have great insights and leadership skills. But

624
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: you've said you're a surprise that you got named CEO

625
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: of this large financial firm. Why the surprise?

626
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: I was well, And by the way, I'm.

627
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: Calling you out for a little false humility here, defend yourself.

628
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: Defend excellent. Here, I go on, goes the barrass again. Parised,

629
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: we can count Let me say I think there are

630
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: tremendously strong people. We have a great bench of senior

631
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: management at Man Group. It is a bit of a

632
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: privilege and it sounds a bit trite, just happens to

633
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: be true that we have a phenomenal bench of high

634
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: quality people. I don't want to assume, and didn't want

635
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: to assume that I'd be named the CEO. I am thrilled.

636
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: Let me tell you that I am going to be

637
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: the CEO from the first of September, but that there

638
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: are so many capable individuals that it doesn't do you

639
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 2: any harm to step back and recognize the skills and

640
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: the qualities of those people who you have worked with

641
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: and who you want to work with going forward. So

642
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: that that has been something that I think has held

643
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: me in good stead actually to have perspective and to

644
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 2: keep my feet very firmly grounded. I think what perhaps

645
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: surprised me in reality, and yet it shouldn't have done,

646
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: was the press coverage that the announcement garnered.

647
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: Meaning I don't want to put words in your mouth,

648
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: but I've read everything you've written. You would genuinely surprised

649
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: people focused on you as a woman taking the CEO.

650
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: I mean, this is still a pretty especially in finance. Look,

651
00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: there isn't gender parody in business generally, and finance lags business,

652
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: and hedge funds lag finance. So why so surprised?

653
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: Well, that's the point. I think this is where I

654
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: call myself out and say, why, you know, you kind

655
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: of go, yeah, well, obviously, when you put it like that,

656
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: I think perhaps I was so focused on the job.

657
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: I was so focused on this being something that I

658
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: looked at internally rather than I perhaps focused on the

659
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: external ramification or impact of it, and it's humbling when

660
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 2: that happens. And it's been heartening and in some ways

661
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: overwhelming and brilliant all at the same time. And of

662
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: course you get one gets a thousand emails and a

663
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: thousand messages and all of those things, and some of

664
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: the most touching are those from people who are really

665
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: just saying, do you know, thanks, thank you, Robin, but

666
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: thank you man for breaking that, for giving us somebody

667
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: who is underrepresented. And it means that we all think

668
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: we now you've got you're one more people, one more person.

669
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 2: Sorry too. That's broken through that barrier, whatever that barrier

670
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: may look like. And that was that was touching. I

671
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: have to say.

672
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: It's also when you're on the inside, you see the

673
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: changes that others won't see manifest for years or decades,

674
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: so you're aware that things might be a little better

675
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: than they appear from the outside. So maybe there's a

676
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: little surprise there. I have to mention at this point

677
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: that by the time you become CEO on September first,

678
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 1: the chairman replacing John Cryon will be Anne Wade. You'll

679
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: be not only led by women, the firm will be

680
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: led by two women. There's nothing like that in the

681
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: hedge fund universe at all.

682
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: It's phenomenal and and is a superstar. I'm very, very

683
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 2: lucky to also work with a board. We're very lucky

684
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: to work with a board at Man that is brilliant

685
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: and engaged and highly qualified, and that with Anne has

686
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: been again the master of transition, the master of how

687
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: we think about succession at Man has been very deep

688
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 2: in the way that the board has thought about the

689
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: succession of the chair has also been a very very

690
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: in depth assessment and analysis by happenstance. We are in

691
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: this position with Anne and myself. I've got to tell

692
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: you it's going to be brilliant. But it's not because

693
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: we're women. It's because we're the best people to take

694
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: these roles.

695
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the best people. The firm is

696
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: one forty four point seven billion in assets. Let's round

697
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: it up to one forty five. As much as my

698
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: compliance people hate when I do that, how do you

699
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: guys plan on growing the assets? Do you have any

700
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: targets in mind? Do you want to get to two

701
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: hundred billion? Is it a trillion dollar firm? A decade

702
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: from now, what are you thinking about?

703
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: And it's a great question, it's also an early question.

704
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: Let's be clear. So I'm going to phaps not give

705
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: you the satisfactory answer you want. Nevertheless, you'd expect me

706
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: to do exactly what I'm just about to do. The

707
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 2: firm is brilliant. I mean, it has a cracking core

708
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 2: business and my number one job, apart from anything, is

709
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 2: not to break that because that is value and it's

710
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: real and it will continue to grow. We will continue

711
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: to see the value of technology, and we have thirty

712
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: five years, forty years of quant and data and tech

713
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: behind us, and we will continue to invest in that space.

714
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: We will continue to look for opportunities in an M

715
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 2: and A format. We've made it very clear to the market.

716
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: Can't guess what they're going to be. Couldn't tell you

717
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: if I did know, But I can't guess what that's

718
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: going to be. What I will tell you is it

719
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 2: will be additive. It will be additive for our clients. Ultimately,

720
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 2: this is about having deeper and better client offerings. It's

721
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: that piece about the solutions that we talked about earlier.

722
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: How do I ensure that I've got each of the

723
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: components that can provide made a better offering for our

724
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: institutional clients, and we'll grow that us massively important to

725
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: US deep capital market. You'll absolutely see us putting effort

726
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: and time into building our presence here too.

727
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: Looking forward to that, tell us a little bit about

728
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: your background in environmental, social and governance based investing.

729
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 2: It certainly has become a little bit controversial here, but yes,

730
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: let me talk. Let me talk about our background. In

731
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: the early two thousands we had our first sort of

732
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: involvement in creating and thinking about climate and signing up

733
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: to various supplies of information when it came to climate data.

734
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 2: But really, let's be clear, it's ESG as a concept

735
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: has really hotted up. If I'm allowed to use that

736
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: force with ESG in the last pun intended, maybe a

737
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: tiny pun intended in the last five years or so,

738
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: where you've seen the massive change in the European regulatory environment,

739
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: where you have these Article eight and Article nine funds,

740
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 2: which are responsible investing funds. You know they have to

741
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: have a certain percentage of responsible investing investments within them.

742
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: That can differ between Article nine and Artical eight. Where

743
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 2: we've moved away from exclusion this where things are becoming

744
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: more complex and where data points are becoming more interesting

745
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: to drive investment decisions. We have certainly seen an uptick

746
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:34,959
Speaker 2: of investment interest in ORI in Europe. You know, there's

747
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: almost a point where you can't have a conversation with

748
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: somebody in Europe with a client without there being an

749
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: RI piece.

750
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: To it, meaning responsible investing in.

751
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: My apologies and so ESGRI interchangeable in this space. But

752
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 2: a comment I would say more generally is since when

753
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: didn't we take into account governance and risk in investment

754
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: decision making? That's the bit that I find quite in

755
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: interesting here. So when I answer your question, I answered

756
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: it in the format of what you're really asking me,

757
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: which is the ESG kind of concept. But actually, when

758
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: you extract governance and you say do we look at

759
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 2: good governance of issuers? Who doesn't?

760
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: It's a risk screen.

761
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: If anything, it's a risk screen. And so the way

762
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: that we think about ESG at Man is not as

763
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: an evangelical point where I soapbox you into saying what

764
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 2: is right and wrong. That's not what we're here to do.

765
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: We're here as as product providers, solution providers to our

766
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: clients and So if a client comes to us and says,

767
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: I want to have a portfolio which has which reduces

768
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 2: its carbon impact, if I want to look at biodiversity,

769
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: if I want to invest in and this has not happened,

770
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: by the way, but you know it only boards which

771
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: I only want to invest in publicly listed companies where

772
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the boards are made up of diverse

773
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: candidates doesn't happen. But these criters, that's where we are

774
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: placed now. The difference that Man has is that what

775
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 2: is happening is there is a chunk of data out

776
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: there that is wholly inconsistent, highly complex, multiply sourced, and

777
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: downright contradictory. And what we can do with that is

778
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: apply that thirty five forty years of data science, quant

779
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: and tech capability. I can throw five hundred people at

780
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: that if I want to. We don't need to understand

781
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 2: what the signals are in that space. But it isn't

782
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: that everything we do at Man Group is now has

783
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: to be ESG. It's what a clients want, and we

784
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: certainly have clients who will only want something that is

785
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 2: responsibly invested in some format, and we have a lot

786
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: of clients who don't.

787
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: So when you say that data is contradictory, there's been

788
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: some studies that have shown that ESG doesn't generate any

789
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: form of alpha rautperformance very often tied to how well

790
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: oil companies are doing, because if you pull those out,

791
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: it's a major component. And there's others that say, we

792
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: mentioned the risk component. Hey, if you have a lot

793
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: of companies with bad governance, they have a disconcerting tendency

794
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: to blow up and crash. How do you reconcile these

795
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 1: different data points or is it all in the framing

796
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: and the definition of what ESG is or what diversity

797
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: and inclusions?

798
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 2: Great question, Barry. I think what you are pulling out

799
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: there is the complexity of the question alone the answer.

800
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 2: So fundamentally, yes, it has something to do with strategy.

801
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: If you were in a growth strategy last year that

802
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: had DSG, didn't matter, didn't matter if right, So some

803
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: of this is also about extracting the ESG factor, not

804
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: just understand and understanding it as against the strategy that

805
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: DSG was attached to. Absolutely, you're finding if you're in

806
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 2: a you're a hydroelectric company and where your hydroelectric base

807
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 2: is now suffering from drought every year. If you are

808
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: a wind company and wind patterns for the last few

809
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: years have been off considerably. These are climate change, but

810
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: they take into account effectively the effectiveness of your business. Now,

811
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: so how do you how do you extract the various

812
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: points of that to make it a decent a decent thesis.

813
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 2: And the argument is, what is it you want to

814
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: achieve as a client, what are you after? And are

815
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: you willing and some points of this, And this is

816
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: the discussion out there that happens with some clients. Is

817
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 2: is it all about P and L, is it about

818
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: alpha capture? Or is there a willingness here to actually say, actually,

819
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: I'm more interested in I want P and L, I

820
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 2: want alpha capture, and I actually want social impact or

821
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 2: I want climate impact or I want decarbonization. The other

822
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: piece of this is there are absolute strategies which are

823
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 2: about transition, and transition is about recognizing the journey between

824
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: where we are today in carbon and greenhouse gas versus

825
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: where a company might be going. So you will have

826
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: and we have had clients who so I'm interested in

827
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: I still want to look at oil and gas and

828
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: fossil fuels, but I'm interested in the transition I'm interested

829
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: in who is really putting money to work to transition

830
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: from those fossil fossil fuels into renewables, for example. So

831
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: a complex question which then begets unfortunately a complex answer.

832
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about diversity and inclusion. How

833
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: do you think about that as a manager, and then

834
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: how do you think about that as an investor?

835
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: We turn a mirror on ourselves, Let's be clear. You

836
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: know that's important. We continue to put every effort into

837
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: seeking and having different in our organization, I mean real

838
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: difference as well. I think this piece about I'm not

839
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: really interested in the person who is different on the

840
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: outside but actually went through all the same educational processes

841
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: in the same training. I think we need difference in.

842
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: The right the way. That's it's funny you mentioned that,

843
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: But there was just a study recently, and I don't

844
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: remember if it was the Times or Wall Street Journal

845
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg that had the story. The vast majority of

846
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: economists working in finance went to the same six grad schools.

847
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: So what does it matter how they look. It's the

848
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: same widget coming out of the same factory.

849
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: And we've got to get comfortable as well. Let's be

850
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: clear we have to be comfortable with discomfort if you

851
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 2: want real diversity.

852
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: Again, comfortable with discomfort.

853
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: Comfortable with discomfort. When you're in a room and you

854
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 2: can connect over your whatever it may be, It doesn't

855
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: really matter what your connection is, your school or your

856
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: experience in life, where you your football teams. By that,

857
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: I meant soccer, soccer anyways, that thing. That's what we

858
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: do as human beings. As human beings, we try to

859
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: connect with each other. That is how we smooth the conversations,

860
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,479
Speaker 2: how we move things forward. Actually, when you have real

861
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: difference in the room, it feels a little kind of uncomfortable,

862
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: It feels a little bit jarring from time. Well, what

863
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: do you mean you don't understand that, you don't get that,

864
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 2: or that wasn't as easy a conversation. We gravitate as

865
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: human beings towards easier conversations where we find commonality. And

866
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: what we're asking of our organizations is to make it

867
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: a little bit more friction full, not friction less in

868
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 2: that space. But I am a thousand percent and I

869
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 2: shouldn't say that. I know it's a bad phrase. I'm

870
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: one hundred percent right.

871
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: I thank you so much for that. By the way,

872
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: because my question has always why why not?

873
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 2: Two thousand, one hundred percent sure that we need and

874
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 2: there is a war for the best talent. And if

875
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: we think if the premise that only the best people

876
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: come from certain demographics, your tribe, your tribe, right is,

877
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: when you say it out loud, a nonsense. So how

878
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: we get people into our organizations that feel, look and

879
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 2: have difference, and how we ensure that we give them

880
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: the space to be that different in our organizations. That's

881
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: the criticality to it, that bit of yeah, yeah, it's okay,

882
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: we'll have you, and then please can you be like us?

883
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,479
Speaker 2: You've got to know how to create an organization which

884
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 2: actually gives people the space to be different, because that's

885
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: what you're getting them for. It's a bit like an

886
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: acquisition where you understand the commercial reality of it. You

887
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: buy something because of its commercial differentiation, and then you

888
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 2: bring it in and you're trying to sqush it into

889
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 2: something that degrades that commercial benefit. It's the same with people.

890
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: You've got to bring people in, you've got to let

891
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: them fly, and you've got to be comfortable, perhaps being

892
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: a little bit more uncomfortable than you work before.

893
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: All the academic studies say, if you want to avoid

894
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: group think, if you want better decisions, the more diverse

895
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: the group, the more likely you are to reach a

896
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: better decision. So even that discomfort, there's some academic research

897
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: that supports it right.

898
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Over and over again, you see the academic research.

899
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 2: And yet I think there's an arrogance that we've had

900
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 2: in our industry a little bit, which has been that

901
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: great people will come to us. And then we suddenly

902
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: woke up a little while ago, especially as tech became

903
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 2: so incredibly important to all of us, that there were

904
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: other options for these very smart people that they didn't

905
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: have to come and work at hedge funds, or maybe

906
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: they weren't interested in finance. What how could that possible?

907
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 2: How could that be? Barry? You and I, it's shocking, right,

908
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 2: I'll let you.

909
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: An a secret. I'm a recovering attorney myself, so I

910
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: get it right.

911
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: So that attorney's anonymous, we need to go to anyway

912
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: that aside. So we suddenly found ourselves believing that actually

913
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 2: we are great, therefore great people will come, and actually

914
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: not so much that those new generations have many more

915
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 2: choices on how to deploy that expertise, and actually they

916
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 2: look at us and they say, why would I come

917
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 2: and work for an organization where you don't look like me,

918
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: you don't feel like me, you don't understand me, and

919
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 2: you'll make me do stuff I don't want to do.

920
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 2: And by the way, I've watched billions, and I mean,

921
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 2: this is the difficulty with podcasts. I just made a

922
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 2: funny face, but the point being, we have to do

923
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: and we've had to do a much better job. I

924
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: think in joining up the dots for that brilliant talent

925
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 2: that's coming through about what we do and why we're valuable,

926
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: and why it matters that we do what we do,

927
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: and why they are important part of ensuring financial security

928
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: for millions of people who have worked very, very hard

929
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 2: their whole lives and deserve a high qual return on

930
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: their pension.

931
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: So I've always imagined the competition for the best talent

932
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: is between financial companies. What you're really saying is finance

933
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: as an entity collectively has to compete against other.

934
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely field institution every day of the week, every day

935
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: of the week. And maybe it's startups, maybe it's that piece,

936
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 2: or maybe it's Testa, or maybe it's Facebook or maybe

937
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: it's Google, or maybe it's any number of these other

938
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 2: spaces that are tech enabled, and where they're doing this,

939
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 2: their pr their PR is better, has been smarter than ours.

940
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 2: And that piece where we used where people you know,

941
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: skateboard in the office bit, you know, And I think

942
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: we've had to be a little bit smarter and a

943
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 2: little less scathing and a little bit more humble to

944
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 2: ensure that we really are the employer or the industry

945
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 2: or version of that choice for the best and the brightest.

946
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: And that includes people who are different and they look

947
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: at financial services and they don't see difference.

948
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: Huh. So let me dredge up a quote of yours

949
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: that I thought was quite fascinating. You told somebody recently,

950
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: and I believe it was after you were named incoming CEO. Quote.

951
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: I've never been in the majority, whether because I was

952
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: a woman and or someone who proudly identifies as part

953
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: of the LGBTQ community, and that can create challenges and

954
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: means that prejudice has been a reality for me at

955
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: different points in my career. How does that affect how

956
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: you run a company, how you engage in recruitment, and

957
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: how you think about diversity and inclusion.

958
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 2: I think it's given me insight. I think when you

959
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 2: live it, when it's your lived experience, you know it

960
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 2: and you feel it. I think also, I am now

961
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: in a position and have been I guess for the

962
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 2: last few years of being proof positive that people who

963
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 2: are different can can be in senior positions and can

964
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 2: now run companies. I think that the prejudice for me

965
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 2: just kind of made me more punchy and made me

966
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 2: more determined to succeed. So I think it makes me

967
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: better at understanding what it feels like when you don't belong,

968
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: when you're on the outside of conversation, when the culture

969
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 2: of an organization genuinely isn't inclusive, and that it's not

970
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 2: about ticking boxes. It's about investing in your culture and

971
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: your organization in a way that's very, very authentic. I'm

972
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: lucky in many ways. I never struggled with the I

973
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 2: shouldn't be this, This isn't you know, this isn't what

974
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 2: society wants. I'm never going to succeed. I kind of

975
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: don't know what happened, but that bypassed me luckily, and

976
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: so I've always been the way I really am today,

977
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 2: and that has been extraordinarily good for me in large part,

978
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 2: but it's not been without issue. I just think that

979
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 2: I've overcome those issues, which makes them something I'm alive

980
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: for other people in my organization, and beyond that, those

981
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: struggles are still real.

982
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: Hum really really quite fascinating. Let's jump to our favorite

983
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: questions that we ask all of our guests, starting with

984
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: what have you been entertaining yourself with? What are you

985
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: listening to or watching or streaming?

986
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 2: So? What guilty? Guilty? What I'm watching? I have? I

987
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: love ted Lasso?

988
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: What's not to love?

989
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: It's like, it's a delightful show. It's a brilliant show,

990
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: and I think that it seems too. It's the feel

991
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: good thing we kind of all need at the moment.

992
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: It feels to me as well, So Ted Lasso.

993
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: I don't even think that's a guilty guilty. The writing

994
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: is so sharp. People like that are embarrassed, like, oh,

995
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: I like ted Lasso, Why shouldn't you like that?

996
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: I find myself quoting ted Lasso, perhaps not Ted Lasso himself,

997
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: but there are definitely points where I may be channeling

998
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: some of the other characters. Definitely podcasts. I well, obviously

999
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 2: it would be wrong Barry for me not to say

1000
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 2: you but stop stop. But I do find some of

1001
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg series very useful. I find some of the

1002
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: Gold and Stuff very useful. But I also find when

1003
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 2: I dip into you know, talk Easy, or I'll dip

1004
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 2: into Dak Shepherd from time to time, because it's really

1005
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: interesting hearing some of that sort of outside arts culture,

1006
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 2: or finding yourself with somebody different, asking people like us

1007
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 2: different questions really intriguing.

1008
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: Tell us about your mentors who helped shape your career.

1009
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: Goodness. This isn't an Oscar's exception speech, but I've been

1010
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 2: super lucky through every part from my university day through.

1011
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 2: Here's something I'll admit to. There is not one company

1012
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 2: that I've worked for or regulator that I've worked for

1013
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: where I'm not still in touch with my old bosses.

1014
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: And that is because they took the time to work

1015
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 2: out who I was and then they put me to work.

1016
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: And I will forever be grateful for that willingness to

1017
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: step back, not tick a box, but invest in me

1018
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 2: as an individual and then work out what I was

1019
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: good at and then make it better. And so there's

1020
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 2: not one person through any part, you know, But I

1021
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: would say one of the most transformational mentors or allies

1022
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 2: or sponsors or whatever is Luke. I have had enormous

1023
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: benefit from having his confidence, and he has pushed me

1024
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 2: like no one else.

1025
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: Huh. Really really quite intriguing. I very much enjoyed my

1026
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: conversation with him. Also fascinating person. He's really fascinating.

1027
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: He's everything and more.

1028
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of your favorite books and what

1029
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: you're reading lately.

1030
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: So living in Japan it gives you a bit of

1031
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 2: an insight of many things. So any Japanese author Murakami,

1032
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 2: minute Murakami puts anything out, I read it, and then

1033
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 2: I read it again.

1034
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're reading the translated version of English, not

1035
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: in the original.

1036
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 2: Do you know, I wish I was that smart. I

1037
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: tell you something, actually, bar it's a really good point.

1038
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 2: The translators of these books, aren't they gifted? I mean,

1039
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: because it's not just a word. It's not like put

1040
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 2: it into Google and see what you get. It's everything,

1041
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: And that is fine. That is just an extraordinary capability.

1042
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: So anything in that sort of Murakami space, what's open

1043
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 2: on my bedside table right now is that I can't

1044
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: tell you how many times I've read it, but is Orlando,

1045
01:00:54,400 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 2: and really there is something extraordinary about that transformational through time,

1046
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: through gender, through experience. There's something that's really quite fascinating.

1047
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's an easy book to read. I'm

1048
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 2: just saying it just happens to be the one I

1049
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 2: reopened a month ago. I'm still going through.

1050
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: Interesting and now we're down to our final two questions.

1051
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: What sort of advice would you give to a recent

1052
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: college grad who was thinking about a career in finance?

1053
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: Do it? Would? I mean, I think if don't expect

1054
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 2: it to be what you think it is, experience it

1055
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: without any form of prejudice in some ways or without

1056
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 2: any form of expectation. I would also say go for

1057
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 2: it in a take the opportunities what finance does, which

1058
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 2: is I had not anticipated. But it's why I'm still

1059
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 2: in it is it's fast, it's intellectually demanding, it has

1060
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 2: reached beyond its real estate footprint. It has impact, it

1061
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 2: is topical, it covers geopolitical risk. There isn't a part

1062
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: of the world on society it doesn't impact, and if

1063
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 2: you embrace it on that basis, the opportunities are actually endless.

1064
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: So be yourself, go for it. Don't think too much

1065
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 2: about ladders and what your next title is or whatever

1066
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: of that stuff is. Just immerse yourself in it and

1067
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: take every opportunity that's given to you.

1068
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: Really interesting advice, and our final question, what do you

1069
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,959
Speaker 1: know about the world of investing and finance and hedge

1070
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: funds for that matter, that you wish you knew twenty

1071
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: five thirty years ago when you were first starting out.

1072
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 2: I don't think I wish i'd known anything. I think

1073
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 2: that my slightly wide eyed, slightly intrigued, slightly uneducated start

1074
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 2: point in finance was almost a gift because my expectations

1075
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 2: weren't there because I didn't need to know, as I

1076
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 2: just was hungry to learn, because I didn't really think

1077
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: about corporate structure and where my next job was, and

1078
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: it was freeing. And I look back on my career

1079
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 2: and I look back on the experiences, and I look

1080
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: back on the people, some of whom now still work

1081
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 2: for me, and I'm not sure i'd changed that, and

1082
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: so I'm okay with where I was.

1083
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: Quite fascinating. Robin, thank you for being so generous with

1084
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: your time. This has been absolutely intriguing. We have been

1085
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: speaking with Robin Grew. She is the incoming chief executive

1086
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: officer at Man Group. If you enjoy this conversation, well,

1087
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: be sure and check out any of the other five

1088
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: hundred or so we've done over the past eight years.

1089
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: You can find those at Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, or wherever

1090
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: you find your favorite podcasts. Be sure and sign up

1091
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: for our daily reads at reholts dot com. Follow me

1092
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Ridholts, follow all of the fine family

1093
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcasts at Podcasts. I would be remiss if

1094
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: I did not thank the crack team that helps put

1095
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: these conversations together each week. Bob Bragg is my audio engineer.

1096
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: Attika of Albron is our project manager. Paris Wald is

1097
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: our producer. Sean Russo is my head of research. I'm

1098
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: Barry Ridholts. You've been listening to Masters in Business on

1099
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.