1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: We are in a moment of massively high debt levels 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: and massively high inflation. Inflationary pressures weren't caused by economic policy, 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: so a lot of them are caused by a pandemic. 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: We can't look back to that. It's Bloomberg Sound on politics, 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: policy perspective from DC's top name. There is so much 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: speculation right now about the Department of Justice, and it's 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: under a haze of questions. Burden is on Congress to 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: come up with an immigration plan that's comprehensive. Bloomberg Sound 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Congress is back 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: and in action today for the first time in two weeks, 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: and they're starting off by tackling the issue of esgs. 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: We're going to get the take from Virginia Democrat Don Bier, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: and then the war in Ukraine a year on, as 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: we head into year two, why President Biden is hesitant 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: to fulfill one of the country's big asks. This is 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: Sound On. I'm Emily Wilkins and today for Joe Matthew. 18 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: We've got a lot to cover in the next hour. Well, 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: joining us now is a Virginia Democratic Congressman Don Bayer, 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: someone who really has a good finger on the pulse 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: of what's going on with Congress today. Congressman, thank you 22 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Yeah, thanks Emily for the invitation. Well, 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: I wanted to start with what the House is doing 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: this week. One of the big votes that House Republicans 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: have teed up is a vote on rolling back a 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: Biden administration rule that would allow retirement plans to consider environmental, social, 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: and corporate governance factors. And that's, of course something the 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: Biden administration put forward, and now Republicans are trying to 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: overturn it, saying that it should be up to the 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: investors to make the best decisions for those their funds serves. 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: Does that argument have any merit, ask none whatsoever? In fact, 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: that the Biden rule just says that investment firms can 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: make decisions based on environmental impact or the impact on governance. 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't make them do it. And in fact, you 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: still assume that investors are going to make the very 36 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: best decisions for their people whose money they're managing. And surprise, 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: you know, it makes an awful lot of sense to 38 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: invest in things that are environmentally good. That's that's not 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: just a good way to make money, but it's also 40 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: a good way to protect the overall lives of the 41 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: investors that they're serving. And so if this is just voluntary, 42 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: why then is this become such a tension point that 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: Republicans feel the need to overturn it. Do you have 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: some sense of why that is? And you talk to 45 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: some of your colleagues, Yeah, it's it's just part of 46 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: this whole culture war thing. Don't jump on any little 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: thing like you know that that one a thousand children 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: that that want to use a bathroom different from the 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: their sexual orientation or um, you know, some school book 50 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: somewhere that they think goes too far. It's culture war stuff, 51 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: and it has no real impact. Even if they can 52 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: somehow overturn that the Biden rule that says that investors 53 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: money managers can invest in environmental social governmental issues, that 54 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: doesn't stop them from doing it. You know, most of 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: them are still going to do it anyway because it's 56 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: good business. And we should point out that, you know, 57 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: we don't yet know whether this is actually going to 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: be able to pass in the Senate. Of Republicans are 59 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: on board, they've got Joe Mansion, they'll need another Democrat, 60 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: and even if they do, it's very very likely that 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Biden is going to veto this. So we should just 62 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: be clear about what the actual prospects are here going forward. 63 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: But Congressman, it kind of seems like House Democrats are 64 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: in a position right now where if Republicans do want 65 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: to bring some of these more culture war bills forward, 66 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: that they can. And I'm wondering, from the perspective of Democrats, 67 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: what is your game plan here for the next two years, 68 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: Because you guys don't control the floor anymore, how do 69 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: you play defense? Well, we in two ways. One is 70 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: every one of these bills has a debate on the floor, 71 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: at a debate you know, in the editorial pages and 72 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: the op eds, and we're winning those battles every time. Also, 73 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: so far, the things that Republicans have chosen to focus 74 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: on are not the things that everyday Americans, that working 75 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: men and women in this country care about. Most of 76 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: them could care less about ESG investing by big investment firms. 77 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: I'm more concerned about what's my four one kay look like? 78 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: And what am I getting raises in my job? And 79 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: do I have healthcare? And is inflation coming down? And 80 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: those are the things that Joe Biden and his team 81 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: are working on very hard. So until Republicans always start 82 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: paying attention to what is really concerning the American people, 83 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: I don't worry about their silly messaging bills. Well, following 84 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: up on that, you know, later this week you're going 85 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: to be headed up to Baltimore for the House Democrats 86 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: Issues Conference. Number of you and your colleagues will be 87 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: up there. You'll be hearing from leader ship, You'll be 88 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: hearing from leaders within your party. What are you expecting 89 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: to hear and to learn during this conference? That's going 90 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: to sort of give you the mindset for what the 91 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: next two years actually look like for what Democrats can do. Emily, 92 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: I think three things. Probably the most important is what 93 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: are the things that we can work on the Republicans 94 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: with together to actually get things done. We don't want 95 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: two years of just stasis and no movement. There's still 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: a lot of good things that we can do and 97 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: should do together. The second thing is you can actually 98 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: interrupted there to ask if there's anything in specific, if 99 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: there's anything specific that you think you can get done 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: with Republicans. Well, I think on trade policy, there's much 101 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: more that we need to do. I don't want to 102 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: get too nerdy technical, but renewing the general system of 103 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: preferences and miscellaneous tariff bills. These are things that have 104 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: been lagging and we should address. On tax policy, there's 105 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: lots of little and big things to fix. I think, 106 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, we have to get a budget for the 107 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: next two years and solve the debt ceiling crisis. These 108 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: are all things that we're going to have to do together. 109 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: And then there are things that they may try to do. 110 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: I think Joe Biden pretty much took attacking Medicare and 111 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: Social Security off the table, but there will be other 112 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: things that we're gonna have to play defense on as 113 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: best we can, knowing that we have the backstop of 114 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: a fifty one forty nine Senate slim majority and the President, 115 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: and then there will be a lot of things that 116 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: we just build for for the next two years. I 117 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: have a lot of bills that I know aren't going 118 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: to pass, and Kevin McCarthy ass but maybe in two 119 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: years they'll pass in a Hockey and Jeffreys House. And 120 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: so I'm going to keep working on this absolutely, and 121 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: I know I cut you off a little bit when 122 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: you were asking telling about the Issues Conference, just that 123 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: I feel like anything that houses can pass the House 124 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: right now is always worth keeping an eye on. But 125 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: going back to the Issues Conference later this week, President 126 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden is going to be addressing House Democrats on Wednesday, 127 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: and maybe this is sort of a good segue as 128 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: far as what do you expect to hear from him, 129 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: What does he need his message need to be to 130 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: Democrats at this time. I don't know what his message 131 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: will be, but you know, he's such an optimist. He's 132 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: always believed that, you know, things can get better, which 133 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: is why he stayed in public life for fifty years. 134 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: So my guess is that he's going to not just, 135 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: like in the State of the Union, talk about all 136 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: the good things we've done, but he's going to talk 137 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: about little and big things that we're going to need 138 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: to do in the months to come. That will include 139 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: looking at the safety on rails after the East Palestine crash. 140 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: He really wants to make a big focus on all 141 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: those annoying fees that can add up to fifty or 142 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: seventy five dollars every time you get on an airplane, 143 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: and they'll be big issues and little issues. I'm hoping 144 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: too that he will address how we make sure that 145 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: Social Security is solvent indefinitely. They were still scheduled to 146 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: run out of money by I don't know what the 147 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: year is right now, twenty thirty four, twenty thirty three. 148 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: Now we've got some work to do, and since the 149 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: President's promised not to raise taxes and anybody making less 150 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: than four hundred thousand dollars, we're gonna have to be 151 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: pretty creative to be able to shore of Social Security. 152 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: But we need to do it absolutely. I mean, you 153 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: sit on the powerful Ways and Means Committee obviously that 154 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: deals with taxation, that that kind of has tentacles in 155 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: a lot of different areas. I mean, are you aware 156 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: of any efforts right now in the House to try 157 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to make sure that Social 158 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: Security remains solvent? Yes, I very much hope so. Yeah. 159 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: John Larson, the kind of start from Connecticut has done 160 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: a superlative job the last couple of years with Social 161 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: Security refunding plans. Now there's a Democratic Republican lead in 162 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: Ways and Means, so they'll have to work together and 163 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: I'll help as best I can. An you know that 164 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that Johnna suggested is lifting the 165 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: cap because right now, once you make more than I 166 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: don't know what this year's number is, one hundred and 167 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: twenty nine thousand dollars or whatever, you don't have to 168 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: pay any more Social Security. And yet that's the most 169 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: obvious way to continue to raise money to pay for everything. 170 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: You know, one of the challenge we have emily of 171 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: courses that our population is getting much older and our 172 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: workforce is emptying out at the younger end, so you 173 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 1: have ever fewer people trying to pay for ever more 174 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: retired people. And we get to be creative to overcome that. Sure, 175 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: and of course that's something that Congress has a couple 176 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: of years to figure out. You guys have much much 177 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: less time, of course, when it comes to the debt 178 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: limit and how you have a path forward. I know 179 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: that kind of the ball for at least in the House. 180 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: It's in the Republicans court. But I'm wondering if you 181 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: see any sort of role for House Democrats here in 182 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: terms of either shaping any potential legislation to lower some 183 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: of the federals spending, or is it just a matter 184 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: of continuing to push for a clean raise of the 185 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: det women. Um, well, I think we want to push 186 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: for a clean race. That's the way it's always been done. 187 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: That's the way we did it three times during Donald 188 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: Trump's presidency. But we're still going to talk. You know, 189 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: Joe Biden has said he's going to show us his 190 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: plan here in another week. We'd love to see the 191 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: Republican plan. And I read just today that Janet Yellen's 192 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: beginning conversations with you know, some of the leadership in 193 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: the Senate in the House, to talk about how do 194 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: we reduce the deficit? Um. This, I think is what 195 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: my Republican friends are asking for, Um, that we find 196 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: ways to address this thirty three trillion dollar deficit. They 197 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: would rather do it by cutting wealth. They don't want 198 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: to touch Medicare or medicaids, social Security, the veterans affairs, 199 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: or the military. Doesn't leave you much left when it 200 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: leaves you about temperature of the budget. They're trying to 201 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: find all those savings. I of course want to look 202 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: at the tax cheats. There's the estimated Senator fifty billion 203 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: dollars worth of taxes that are due and owed in 204 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: the United States, not from people at ten ninety nine's 205 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: or W twos, but from people that don't have those 206 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: that we're not collecting right now, and there are some 207 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: some thoughtful ways to be able to go after that. 208 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: We don't have to raise anyays taxes. We just need 209 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: to collect what's actually owed not being paid. Yeah, I know, 210 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: there's definitely some discussion about sort of how to make 211 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: things not just on the cutting side, but on the 212 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: revenue side to increase that as well. Certainly will be 213 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: an interesting one to look at going forward. Congressman, I 214 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: also know that you recently returned from a bipartisan codel 215 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: to Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras. Tell me a little bit. 216 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: Who else was with you on this trip and what 217 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: was your focus during the time. Oh? Yeah, it was 218 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: led by Senator Tom Carper of Delaware, and we as 219 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: Senator Maggie Hassell of New Hampshire, whose birthday is today. Yeah, 220 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: Adrian Smith, who's you know, like number two on the 221 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: House Ways and Means Committee, and Jerry carl who's an 222 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: appropriator from Alabama. Luke Carea from California, the famous Dan 223 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Kilde from Flint, Michigan. It was a great crew and 224 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: it was part of the whole roots strategy. Let's try 225 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: to find out as best we can, how do we 226 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: address the causes of this migration to the southern border. 227 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: It's come down very greatly for those countries in the 228 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: northern triangle, Guatemala, hondur sl Salvador, and way down from Mexico, 229 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: but it's still very real. It's still tens of thousands 230 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: per year. So we were meeting. We met with the 231 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: President of Mexico, at the President of Guatemala and some 232 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: of the leadership from Honduras, just trying to figure out 233 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,479 Speaker 1: how do we get better education, better healthcare, most importantly 234 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: better jobs. And hey, have so many people living in poverty. 235 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: All the surveys of them show the reason they left 236 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: is is to look for a better life, because they 237 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: weren't surviving. We visited a refuge camp of people that 238 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: were shipped back from the United States turned away tible 239 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: forty two literally arrived at the border within the last 240 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: seventy two hours, are already sent back on the plane 241 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: to Honduras. And again all the interviews with them said, 242 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: we've just gone there because we're starving here, there's no work, 243 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: and the violence levels are high, and we want a 244 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: better life in America. Well, given all of that, I 245 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: learned Emily two is that every time one of my 246 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: Republican palace talks about an open border, the people who 247 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: hear that are the people living in place of Lake 248 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: Central America, and they believe them, and then of course 249 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: they get there and they put on an airplane. Is 250 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: that right back, Well, that's actually a great point because 251 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you a little bit about Biden's 252 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: proposed rule last week that would largely ban migrants who 253 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: traveled through other countries on the way to the US 254 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: Mexico border from applying for asylum in the United States, 255 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: and the messages you need to find other ways to 256 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: apply for asylum or be able to, you know, instead 257 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: of coming to the US border and applying to just apply. 258 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that that is a potential rule that 259 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: could help stem some of this migration and some of 260 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: these dangerous journeys that they're taking. Yes, yes, I do. 261 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: I know the rule may end up being a little controversial, 262 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: but when you realize that we have a four year 263 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: backlog of the court cases of people who have come 264 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: and applied legally for asylum at the border, it's just crazy. 265 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: We don't have the judges or the judicial system to 266 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: handle all that, So instead we end up with a 267 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: million people who have applied for asylum who just end 268 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: up staying in this country waiting patiently for their court date. 269 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: The notion of moving to Nicaragua, Cube of Venezuela and 270 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: limiting them to number of views this is worked really, 271 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: really well, and people from those countries have they're people 272 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: showing up. The boarder of dropped by more than nine. 273 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: But this next step of saying you're not automobly entitled 274 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: to apply for asylum maybe just the next step to 275 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: try to get things back and think it'll be very 276 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: interesting to watch that. Congressman Don Buyer, thank you again 277 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today. That was Congressman Don Bayer, 278 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: Democrat from Virginia. Thanks Emily very much. Well, now let's 279 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: go ahead and bring in our panel Bloomberg Politics contributors 280 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: Genichi and Zano and Rick Davis. Rick I want to 281 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: come to you real quick. Obviously, Buyer, you know kind 282 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: of criticizing Republicans as using ESG as a bit of 283 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: a culture war issue. Want to see do you agree 284 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: with that and do you think that Republicans are actually 285 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: trying to find some sort of policy way to move 286 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: forward when it comes to ESG investing. Yeah, I don't 287 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: think the Republicans have any real interest in trying to 288 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: actually do anything positive related to ESG investing. I think 289 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: they just see it as a cat call that they 290 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: can use to try and create more wokeness in the process. Right, 291 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, someone's going to make an investment decision 292 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: that might have something to do with, you know, having 293 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: good governance. Well, that's all investments are supposed to have 294 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: good governments. Oh my god. You know the environment might 295 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: be taken into consideration. Well, if anyone hasn't been paying attention, 296 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: you better take the environment into consideration when making investments. 297 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: So look, I think that the Republicans are kind of 298 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: off track on this one, and I don't think they're 299 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: going to connect with electorate other than the ones that 300 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: are already solidly in their camp. So they're kind of 301 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: like just talking to themselves. Frankly, Yeah, Gin, we only 302 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: have about ten seconds left. But I'm wondering, do you 303 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: actually see ESG becoming a big campaign issue? No, I don't. 304 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I think you're a discussion with representative Buyer. He said 305 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: it right. This is not something Americans care about. And 306 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: to Rick's point, this is all about keep repeating the 307 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: word woke and hope that the small minority of Republicans 308 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: out there are disgusted by it and vote on it, 309 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: and they won't. This is Bloomberg Son on with Joe 310 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. This is Emilie Wilkins in for 311 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew today. Well, Republicans have made it clear that 312 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: at the top list of their priorities for the next 313 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: two years is immigration. You had dozens of House Republicans 314 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: visiting the border in the last two weeks. You saw 315 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: a number of panels taking place there, you saw committees 316 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: meeting there, and you saw Speaker Kevin McCarthy taking a 317 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: visit with a number of lawmakers who are going to 318 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: face some tough races next year. And McCarthy was very 319 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: clear there. He blamed the worst issues at the border 320 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: on the Biden administration policies. There has been no legislation change. 321 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: But why has the border, Why has this region gone 322 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: from sixty six thousand people come across to two hundred 323 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand. Why is everybody who comes across here 324 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: where camouflage outfit and rugs on their feet. Why are 325 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: we catching so much Finnale. The only thing that change 326 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: was the administration and the administration policies. This is certainly 327 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: not the last we're going to hear on this issue. 328 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: Of Republicans have made clear that they want to look 329 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: into Homeland Security Secretary at a Jundro Mayorkas. There's even 330 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: been some talk about potentially impeaching him for the job 331 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: that he's done at the border. To get a sense 332 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: on where everything stands. Bringing back our panel Bloomberg Politics 333 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: contributors Genie Chianzano and Rick Davis. Rick wanted to start 334 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: off with you because we've seen a lot of these 335 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: House Republicans visiting the border, but we haven't seen a 336 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: lot of legislation yet. We saw one bill go forward 337 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: from chip Roy on asylum, but that didn't have enough 338 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: vote so it wasn't able to get to the floor. 339 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: We haven't really seen any big immigration bills since the 340 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: start of this Congress. Then, is this all theatrics or 341 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: could House Republicans actually put together some real policy ideas 342 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: that they could get through in the next two years. Well, 343 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: I think there's a little reverse engineering that's needed because 344 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: House Republics are smart enough to know that they might 345 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: be able to pass a few things in the House 346 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: where they have a very slim majority, but they don't 347 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: have the majority in the Senate. And so whatever they 348 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: do is either going to have to be bipartisan in 349 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: nature to attract some votes in the Senate to get 350 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: into the President's desk, or it's just an exercise in 351 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: shaping policy. Right, and and this isn't I think that 352 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: falls squarely in immigration. There's no consensus on immigration, there's 353 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: no bipartisanship. There's some efforts underway in the Senate to 354 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: try and forge a bipartisan alliance, but not out of 355 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: the House. And so I think the House has probably 356 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: got other things they want to do. They look at 357 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: the political schedule and say, how do we maintain our 358 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: majority in the next two years, and and they've chosen, 359 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: like one of the very first things are going to 360 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: do is we were talking the last block, was to 361 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: go on after ESG where they think they can create 362 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: this sort of anti woke drumbeat that they're hearing out 363 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: in the country and play into that. So these aren't 364 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: really I think really solid legislative initiatives, and I think 365 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: immigration is going to suffer because this is one of 366 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: those issues it's just begging for a solution. Most of 367 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: the solutions are well known, and it just takes a 368 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: matter of pulling the other Congress, House and Senate Republicans 369 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: and Democrats to actually pass some of these measures. Well, 370 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: I gotta push back on you there, at least a 371 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: little bit, because what we've seen is that when the 372 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: House is controlled by one party and the administration another, 373 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: it's a lot of messaging bills, and it's a lot 374 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: of telling voters, hey, if you give the rest of 375 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: us the majority, a Republican president, Republican Senate, a Republican 376 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: House in twenty twenty four, here is an example of 377 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: something that we can get done. And I'm wondering, then, 378 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: if immigration does become very important for elections as we've 379 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: seen in the past, isn't it important wouldn't it help 380 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: House Republicans to have something to point to and say, see, America, 381 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: this is what we'll do if you vote for us. Yeah. 382 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of a legacy of Donald Trump, right, 383 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: I mean, Donald Trump did nothing but demagogue immigration, talked 384 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: about building his wall. He got a lot of the 385 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: wall built, He got a private initiative that people went 386 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: to jail around to build a wall, and then the 387 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: wall became like, you can't use that term anymore, right, 388 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: Oh my god, don't say you're going to build a wall, 389 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: because everyone knows that that's not going to fix the problem. 390 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: And so, you know, what was once a talking point 391 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: that everybody used if you were a Republican to sort of, 392 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, generate popular support for your solutions to immigration 393 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 1: is now sort of off the table. You don't hear 394 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: anybody talking about that anymore. Jennie. From the democratic perspective here, 395 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: I mean, what do Democrats need to kind of come 396 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: up with a plan. Do they still need to be 397 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: talking about immigration? We saw a House a minority leader 398 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: haking Jeffreys go to the border. Is that something that 399 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: more Democrats should do. We have seen a number of 400 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: Democrats at the border, and you just talked to Representative 401 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: Buyer about that, and they have gone. And the reality 402 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: is this is a messaging bill in a political year 403 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: by the Republican Party. If they were intent on passing 404 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: the bill, they would be working across the aisle to 405 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: construct a bill. I'm looking at the latest Fox News poll, 406 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: for instance, and what do they find. They find three 407 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: quarters a huge number of Americans favor things like increasing 408 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: the number of border agents and immigration judges and asylum 409 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: moving faster. They also favor making it easier for people 410 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: to immigrate to the United States legally and to incentivizing 411 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: people to choose legal pathways. So there's a lot of 412 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: support in the publics when you look at the public 413 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: sphere for common sense ideas to move these bills forward. 414 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: But the reality is the incentive here is political and 415 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: it's not to pass legislation, and that's why we're seeing 416 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: Republicans descend to the border. Some people are saying moving 417 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: Congress to the border because they want to make this 418 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: case politically. But we're seeing very little specifics in terms 419 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: of bills, and they can't do anything but message unless 420 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: they reached across the aisle, and we haven't seen that yet. Well, 421 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: Democrats and Congress can't, but certainly Biden Genie is able 422 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: to move a bit unilaterally with some of his orders, 423 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: like the proposed rule that we've seen come out that 424 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: would basically require immigrants that want to seek asylum in 425 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: the US to apply elsewhere first and to actually physically 426 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: to the southern border. What do you make of that? 427 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: What is Biden trying to do here? You know, he's 428 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: trying to address what we've seen, which is really a 429 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 1: crisis at the border in terms of the number of 430 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: people coming to seek asylum, and so they were trying 431 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: to find a way to address that. I think there's 432 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: a lot of challenges with this issue that they've raised 433 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 1: in terms of this app that they've put forward, and 434 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: we've seen that. But the reality is the Biden administration 435 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: has said correctly all along, we can't do it alone. 436 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: The President said in the State of the Union, this 437 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: is something we've got to work with Congress on. We 438 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: saw what happened when Barack Obama tried to address Dhaka 439 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: unilaterally via an EO. The Republicans said they might need 440 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: to impeach him over it. Even he said he wasn't 441 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: sure he had the power to do it, and then 442 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: he threw up his hands and he did it. And 443 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: so the reality is this is something that Congress has 444 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: to address. The president only has limited power in this area. 445 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: Can try to exercise that as much as possible, but 446 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: it's got to be done via Congress, and that's going 447 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: to require in a congress this you know, this closely 448 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: divided that they work across the aisle. There is the 449 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: will to do this, I think to a certain extent, 450 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: maybe not this year, but going forward in the Senate. 451 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: But it's in the House where we're seeing this struggle. 452 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we talk about immigration, but 453 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: immigration touches on a whole variety of different things with 454 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: the economy. I mean, I'm thinking about how we have 455 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: this current labor crunch right now where Julie Paulo has 456 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: come out said we're short over four million workers. Is 457 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: there something that could be done that Congress should be 458 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: doing or Biden should be doing to kind of use 459 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: immigrants and migrants to the US to bridge that gap 460 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: from that labor shortage that we're currently experiencing. Yeah. Absolutely, 461 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean this is the what's dumbfounding about the debate 462 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: around immigration is we actually aren't attracting the people we 463 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: need to fill the jobs that help our economy continue 464 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: to grow. I mean, there is a current debate around 465 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: H onebvs as these are highly skilled tech workers who 466 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: have added a great deal to our economy and our 467 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: competitiveness around the world, and some parts of that program 468 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: are now expiring. There's no effort in Congress right now 469 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: to update that legislation to keep that program working. And 470 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: in fact, many people would argue that that program needs 471 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: to be significantly expanded in order to be more competitive 472 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: in the US for around the world. So it's just 473 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: a good example of how broken our system is that 474 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 1: you have tens of millions of jobs unfilled that immigration 475 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: could could could help support. We're in a highly competitive 476 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: tech environment around the world, especially with China, and we're 477 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: letting our you know, one of our major tools of 478 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: engagement in that go through various forms of expiration, and 479 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: yet Congress is silent. They just want to use this 480 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: opportunity to demagogue. We've seen some measures pass in the past. 481 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: In two thousand thirteen, a very comprehensive bill went through 482 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: the Senate, couldn't get through the House. I mean, it 483 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: sounds a lot like what would happen this year if 484 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: we had some productivity. So I just think it's one 485 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: of these messages that need to go out this year 486 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: before it becomes too political, that the administration and Congress 487 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: need to band together to find a way to solve 488 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: some of these intractable problems, you know, with immigration, and 489 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: the other way to do it really is through a 490 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: comprehensive reform program. Sure, and of course at this point 491 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: that seems like something that you know, neither side's really 492 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: able to dig into if there's the willingness there that 493 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: politics keeps them from doing it. Rick, Genie, thank you 494 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: so much for really covering the current immigration policy landscape. 495 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: Seems like at this point we're going to have many 496 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: more trips to the border for members of Congress, but 497 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: perhaps no additional legislation to speak of at this point. 498 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch US 499 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: Live weekdays at five Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, ther 500 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: Herd Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App on demand 501 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: wherever you gets well. Biden has said it, Yellen has 502 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: said it, Key House Republicans have said it's bipartisan. The 503 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: US will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes, 504 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean the US is giving Ukraine everything 505 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: at wants. Ukrainian President of Vladimir's Lensky is asking for 506 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: F sixteen fighter jets, but the White House is concerned 507 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: that it could escalate the conflict. National Security Council spokesman 508 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: John Kirby spoke with Bloomberg's David Weston on Balance of 509 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: Power today about the need for air defense in Ukraine. 510 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: The big need right now in terms of the air 511 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: picture is air defense. And even in just this last 512 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: package that the President announced, there's more air defense capabilities 513 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: and they'll be more coming. That's what they really need now. 514 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember that at no time 515 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: over the course of this year, no time have the 516 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: Russians ever achieved air superiority over Ukraine. Well, to discuss 517 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: this issue and take us down to explaining exactly what 518 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: is going on, it's Melinda Herring. She's a senior fellow 519 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center, an expert on Ukraine, 520 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: an expert on Russia, someone who's just been following this 521 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: conflict very closely for the last year. Melinda, thank you 522 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. I just wanted to jump 523 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: right in with this whole debate over the F sixteens. 524 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: Why are these planes so important and why is it 525 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: the Biden administration willing to give them to Ukraine. Hey, Emily, 526 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: great to be back with you on Bloomberg. So the 527 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: F sixteen debate is a longstanding debate, and Ukraine has 528 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: been begging for fighter jets for a long time. It 529 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: is a big deal that one year in that the 530 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: Russians do not control the airspace. And that's partly because 531 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: Ukrainian pilots are really, really good and very inventive. But 532 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: the Washington and other Western powers are afraid of the 533 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: long time it takes to train pilots, so they think 534 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: that it'll take up to a year to get Ukrainian 535 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: pilots up to speed on Western systems. So it's a 536 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: long commitment and we can't get the planes and pilots 537 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: there in time. And they're also afraid of escalation that 538 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: if we were to give fighter jets to the Ukrainians, 539 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: they're afraid of Moscow's response. Well, let's back up there 540 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: to the escalation piece of it, because I feel like, 541 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: you know, if you're talking about the timing component, I 542 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,239 Speaker 1: think a lot of us are surprised that we're now 543 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: in the second year of this war, and there's certainly 544 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: a question for how long that lasts. But for the 545 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: escalation piece of it, would it simply be a matter 546 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,719 Speaker 1: of the US provides these jets to Ukraine and Russia 547 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: used that as an escalation or is this something that 548 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: would play out a little further. I think that it's 549 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: this constant and continual debate we've had for the last year. 550 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: So we keep self deterring ourselves. Washington keeps saying we 551 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: can't give them X weapons system because Moscow will freak 552 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: out and use nuclear weapons. So we have this endless 553 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: debate about how Moscow will react what we do, even 554 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: though we don't have boots on the grounds and we 555 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: don't even know if there is indeed a red line. 556 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of experts don't think that that 557 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: Putin will use nuclear weapons. Period. You know, it is 558 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: an open debate. It's a serious debate. But that's that's 559 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: the bottom line. What keeps us and prevents US from 560 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: sending planes. Well, Putin actually said over the weekend that 561 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: NATO bears culpability for what they are sending to Ukraine 562 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: in terms of missiles and weapons. I mean, how real 563 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: of a threat is it at this point for the 564 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: war to be expanding from just Ukraine and Russia to 565 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: other countries. So Putin loves to make threats. He's made 566 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: about three dozen nuclear threats, and he never follows up 567 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: on them. So I don't put much stock in them, 568 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of other experts don't put a whole 569 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: lot of stock in them. And one of the reason, 570 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: Emily that I sleepball at night is because it's not 571 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: just the White House telling Putin to stand down and 572 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: don't use nuclear weapons. It's also the Indians, in the Chinese. 573 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: No one wants of Vladimir Putin to use nuclear weapons, 574 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: and also not in his interest. He can probably only 575 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: get away with it once and then he's going to 576 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: be incredibly isolated. And we see if you step back 577 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: and look at when he resorts to nuclear threats, it's 578 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: usually when things are not going well on the battlefield. 579 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: It's one of his old tropes that he goes back to. 580 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: Should we take it seriously, Yes, but we shouldn't. We 581 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: shouldn't take it too seriously, would be my argument. You've 582 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: seen a couple of Republicans, I'm thinking about Foreign Affairs 583 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: Chairman Michael McCall in the House call on the Biden 584 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: administration to provide these F sixteen planes. Sounds like seems 585 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: like Republicans are undergoing a pressure campaign, right now could 586 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: that work. I mean, obviously it's not Biden's own party, 587 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: but it is a party that at least controls one 588 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: chamber and certainly you know, has a lot of sway 589 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: over the government right now. Yeah, so it's great that 590 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: he's speaking out in favor of F sixteens. I think 591 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: the US should absolutely authorize F sixteens, but I don't 592 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: expect it to happen. And from a military perspective, it's 593 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: more important that Ukraine gets long range rockets now. That 594 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: is what will make a difference. So it's long range 595 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: rockets and sustained supplies of ammunition. So some people are 596 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: calling the war where it is right now a race 597 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: to resupply, and and it's basically which side can get 598 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: the ammo there quicker. So we need to make sure 599 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: that the Ukrainians have AMMO and long range rockets so 600 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: they can start striking crimea. That that's really more important 601 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: at this point than fighter jets because it's going to 602 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: take so long to get the guys trained on Western systems. 603 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: We should do it all, but I don't think that 604 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: the White House is very sympathetic, and honestly, I expect 605 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: to see sort of a redux of what we saw 606 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: it with London and Poland before with tanks. I think 607 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: the Brits will stick their necks out again and then 608 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: eventually Berlin and Washington will follow. I mean Ukrainians they 609 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: do have some long range missiles now right, I mean, 610 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: can Ukraine win the war with the supplies that the 611 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: West is currently sending? No, it needs more. It can't 612 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: at this current pace. And if you talk to military analysts, 613 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: they'll say, it's really remarkable. The Ukrainians made a lot 614 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: of progress last year with their counter offensives in her 615 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: Son and then in Harkiev. But then there was nothing 616 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: after that, and the Ukrainians didn't have the weapons that 617 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: they were begging for, and those Leopard tanks, those beautiful 618 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: Leopard tanks, and the Abrams tanks that we've promised have 619 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: not arrived in time for the Ukrainians to really launch 620 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: more counter offensives. So I'm going to quote a good 621 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: friend at IW George Barrows. He says that twenty twenty 622 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: three is going to be the year of Ukrainian counter offensives. 623 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: Is not going to be one, It's going to be 624 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: multiple ones. If the West delivers on its promises. Melinda, 625 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: we are Bloomberg. So I do have to ask about 626 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Janny Yellen, who made a secret trip to 627 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: Kiev today continuing Biden's message of support and economic aid. Obviously, 628 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: Biden is a globally recognizable figure. Yellen obviously very important, 629 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: very well respected, but just not so much of an 630 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: international figure. What do you make of her being in Ukraine? 631 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: What is the message there? So the message last week 632 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: they got all the headlines was fabulous with Biden, you know, 633 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: it was symbolically important. And I think he had his 634 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: blue and yellow tie on. You know, it shocked everyone. 635 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: You could only criticize Biden for not showing up sooner. 636 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: That's the only thing I could think of to criticize him. 637 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: His message was perfect. But Yellen's visit is, I would say, 638 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: as important. So budget support is the unsexy part of 639 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: our support. Last year, the United States gave nine billion 640 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: dollars with a bee to Ukraine to keep the state afloat. 641 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: Ukraine is not Afghanistan in part because of this budget 642 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: support that the United States and the European Union has provided. 643 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: It's paying for pensions, it's keeping the railways alive, the 644 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: schools open the hospitals afloat. So without this budget support, 645 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: Ukraine can't win the war. It needs both the military 646 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: assistance and the budget support. So I think the Biden 647 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: administration was emphasizing that today with the Yellen visit. Melinda, 648 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: I know we only have about thirty seconds left, but 649 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: I did want to very quickly ask you about China. 650 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: Anthony B. Lincoln has said that China is considering sending 651 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: supplies to Ukraine. China has denied it. Is it becoming 652 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: harder for China to maintain a neutral position here, So 653 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: China's were trying to play a double game. They've put 654 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: together a peace plan that's nonsense and it doesn't recognize 655 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: Russia as an aggress or give me a break. And 656 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: they're also giving not non lethal assistance to Russia, and 657 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: they're likely to give lethal assistance if they deliver AMMO. 658 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: And this is where the Russians and Ukrainians are going 659 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: to have shortages. A lot of a lot of skepticism there. 660 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: Melissa Harrying, Senior Fellow, thank you so much for joining us. 661 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the 662 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at five pm. Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 663 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: the tuning app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 664 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 665 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: flagship New York's to just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven. Well, 666 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: we have a number of folks, about forty three million 667 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: student borrowers, who are hoping that they can get some 668 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: forgiveness on their student loans. Since student debt forgiveness is 669 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: facing a do or die moment tomorrow. Remember President Biden 670 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: that program that he rolled out that's going before the 671 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: Supreme Court tomorrow for oral arguments. Just a refresher if 672 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: you don't remember this for several months ago, because we've 673 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: basically been through a thousand news cycles since then. This 674 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: is that thing where President Biden was under a lot 675 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: of pressure to forgive student loans, so he had an 676 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: executive order that would forgive up to twenty thousand dollars 677 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: in student debt. Of course that depends on you know, 678 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: if you were a low income student, It depends what 679 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: you're currently making. But up to twenty thousand dollars. This 680 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: has been held up by lawsuits. Two of them will 681 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,399 Speaker 1: be in part of the debate tomorrow. One is from 682 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: six Republican led states and another is from a conservative 683 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: advocacy organization. To break it down, we bring back all 684 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: our all Start panel with Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie Chienzano 685 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: and Rick Davis. Genie, Biden got a ton of pressure 686 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: from progressives to forgive student debt. If SCOTUS does wind 687 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: up striking this down, if the Supreme Court winds up 688 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: deciding that the way Biden did this as a no 689 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: go is Biden's still going to be on the hook 690 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: from all these progressives to find a way to forgive 691 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: student loans. Oh. I think they are going to keep 692 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: pressuring him to do that, and rightly so, Emily, as 693 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: you know, as I know, intimately, the cost of higher 694 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: education in this country is outrageous. Students bear the largest 695 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: debt of any single group in the country, and it 696 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: must be addressed. The problem is the big question of 697 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: whether this is the way to do it, And I 698 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: think there are serious constitutional problems with the way the 699 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: President did this. I suspect if they do eke out 700 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: a win here, they being the administration, it's going to 701 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: be the court saying the people who sued and now 702 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: standing to sue. But I have serious doubts as to 703 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: whether they will agree that the president has the power, 704 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: because this is all about presidential power, has the power 705 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: to do this, And of course the other looming question 706 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: are we still in a COVID emergency or not. That's 707 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: a hard case to make when the president himself several 708 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: months ago has said the emergency is largely over. So 709 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: so many issues here, but the real victims here are 710 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: students and families paying these huge amounts for college education 711 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: in this country, and that is probably not going to change. Unfortunately, 712 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: some really good points there, Genie, I mean, Rick, I 713 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: want I want you to take this from the perspective 714 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: of the court. Of course, a very conservative leaning court. 715 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: Right now, what are we expecting in terms of arguments? 716 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: What are you going to be listening for? Yeah, I think, 717 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: as you point out, I mean, there are you know, 718 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 1: six conservative judges versus three you know that that are 719 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: more progressive, and so the court is stacked on this issue. 720 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: I think that a lot of the focus, I know, 721 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: on the conservative side the six judges that would be 722 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: considered part of that group, is going to be whether 723 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: or not the president simply didn't have the standing to 724 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: make a decision like this. You know, we've gotten so 725 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: used to executive privilege, executive power being flogged by these presidents. 726 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: And it's not a partisan issue. Republicans Democrats have like 727 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: have tried to expand the power of the presidency in 728 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: lieu of the role of Congress to write statutes. And 729 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 1: so I think that certainly the Republican leaning Supreme Court 730 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: justices are going to look at whether or not this 731 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: is just an overreach by this current president and whether 732 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,479 Speaker 1: or not the appropriate role would have been to try 733 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: to get something passed by statute, you know, in the Congress. 734 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: And I can't imagine a situation where this Supreme Court 735 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: is going to actually side with the president. Yeah, this 736 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: feels like a very similar dance here. Congress doesn't move, 737 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: so the president winds up moving and the Supreme courts 738 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: like president had too much power. Well, Jennie Chanzano, Rick Davis, 739 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 1: thank you guys both so much for joining us today. 740 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: That is our fantastic panel. We'll be keeping a close 741 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: eye on the Supreme Court arguments and the eventual outcomes. 742 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: This has been Bloomberg Sound on Bloomberg Daybreak. Asia is 743 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: next