1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 1: Well, it seems to me that the term spin doctor 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: is something the press is manufactured to really deal with 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: the problem the press has. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: This is Herbschmirtz, the ultimate spin doctor we met in 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: our last episode. He's complaining about his favorite target, the press. 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: The press, by and large, would like to control the 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: agenda and the terms of reference of all debates, and 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: they'd like to decide what information they're going to deliver 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: and what information they're. 10 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 2: Not going to deliver it. If you haven't listened to 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: episode four, go back and do that. This is part 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 2: two of our Herbschmertz episode, and you need to listen 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: to part one. I'm Amy Westerveldt and this is Drilled 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: season three, The mad Men of Climate Denial. It seems 15 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: almost unimaginable now, but before Herbschmirtz, it wasn't really okay 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: for corporate executives to be assholes to journalists. The prevailing 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: idea was that if you wanted the media to cover 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: you positively, you had to be nice to journalists. You 19 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: had to build a friendly relationship with them. This was 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: one of Ivy Lee's big rules, and it didn't change 21 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: for almost fifty years because it had mostly worked. It 22 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: had tamped down on muck raking and given companies a 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 2: way into the press. But then came the sixties and seventies, 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: Vietnam and Watergate, and suddenly everyone was suspicious of those 25 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: in power again. And the perfect spin doctor for such 26 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: a time was not a genteel Southerner who could smooth 27 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: talk a story like Ivy Lee. It was a sharp 28 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: litigator with an even sharper tongue, Herbschmertz. He'd been a 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: labor lawyer for years before getting into pr, so he 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 2: wasn't afraid of a little confrontation, and he quickly found 31 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: it to be an effective tool when dealing with the press, 32 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: particularly at a time when Americans were really pissed at 33 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: oil companies over ongoing shortages, and Mobile, as the second 34 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: largest oil company at the time, was a prime target. 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: You've go goddamn, he's done a bullet. Goddamn. Yet the 36 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: late situation, I will not take the plank fortest thing. 37 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: I will not take the crap and the harassments on 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: these customers. 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: This is the owner of a mobile station in New 40 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: Jersey who has had it with people getting pissed off. 41 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: A hymn for his station never having enough gas. 42 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 3: I'll let him police it or stop selling gas. 43 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 4: Anger and bewilderment are growing. Is more and more Americans 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 4: cope with gasoline lines and empty pumps. 45 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: If he didn't like how mobile was depicted in a story, 46 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: Schmertz would accuse the journalist or the TV channel or 47 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: the newspaper of being biased, unfair, not giving both sides 48 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: of the story, and because they weren't really used to 49 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: publicists or company spokespeople doing this, in most cases, they 50 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: would overcorrect in his favor in a lot of ways. 51 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: Schmertz is the guy who brought false equivalents into modern journalism. 52 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 2: False equivalence is the idea that every view has an 53 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: equally valid opposing view. Climate change coverage was riddled with 54 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: this crap for years. Every climate story had to include 55 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 2: a legit scientist and the head of some right wing 56 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: think tank who thought climate change was a hoax. That 57 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: way it was balanced. Newspapers finally ditched this approach in 58 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: the past decade, but cable news has just come around 59 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 2: in the last couple of years. In twenty eighteen, for example, 60 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 2: on Meet the Press's Big Climate episode, Chuck Todd had 61 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: on a spokesperson from the American Enterprise Institute, a known 62 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 2: industry funded front group that regularly pushes climate science denial. 63 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: So you had climate scientists and policy experts and then 64 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: this lady. 65 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 5: The problem for Mannie is that they perceived this as 66 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 5: an agenda that is much more about corporate and much 67 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 5: more about law, and much more about the kind of 68 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 5: governance that America has, and much less about climate. So 69 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 5: from the standpoint of those who have doubts about this, 70 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 5: and I don't think we can have any doubts that 71 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 5: there is climate change, whether it's anthropogenic, I don't know. 72 00:03:58,920 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: I'm not a scientist. 73 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 5: I look at this as a citizen and I see it, 74 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 5: so I understand it. 75 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: Equating this woman's opinion with the actual research of climate 76 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: scientists is a perfect example of false equivalents. And it's 77 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: something Schmertz really pushed for. He watched for every single 78 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: mention of Mobile in the news, and if it was 79 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: critical at all, he went after the journalist and accused 80 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: them of bias. Here he is explaining that strategy to 81 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: Charlie Rose, a few years after he'd left Mobile and 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: started his own PR firm. You made your reputation attacking 83 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: the press. 84 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 5: Well, in part. 85 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: Schmertz believed so much in the strategy of attacking the 86 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: press that he wrote an entire book about it. But 87 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: it wasn't just because he liked confrontation. 88 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: In terms of attacking them, it was it was a 89 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: tactic to get them to present my point of. 90 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: View or myrtus when you were representing President and it was. 91 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: It was attacked to get them to present Mobile's point 92 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: of view by attacking them on the accuracy and reliability. 93 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: You had a public relation problem because oil companies. Absolutely, 94 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was the worst. 95 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: It didn't always work. Of course, there's this hilarious passage 96 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: in Schmertz's book Goodbye to the Low Profile, The Art 97 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: of Creative Confrontation, about a meeting that he demanded with 98 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal editors in nineteen eighty four. He 99 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: planned to cover a long list of examples of how 100 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 2: they'd been unfair to Mobile, but he gets to just 101 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: the first bullet point, and halfway through, the executive editor, 102 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 2: a guy named Frederick Taylor, says, everything you're saying is bullshit. 103 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: A small win for journalism, but then Schmertz retaliates. He 104 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 2: pulls all advertising from the journal. He takes them off 105 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: his press release list. He refuses to let anyone at 106 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: Mobile speak to reporters there. He won't even give them 107 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: access to basic numbers like earnings reports, word spreads throughout 108 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: the media. By nineteen eighty six, Taylor's retired and Mobil's 109 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: working with the Wall Street Journal again. Schmertz was fiery 110 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: and petty that way, but for all his fighting journalists, 111 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 2: he also saw their value. In nineteen seventy, Schmertz convinced 112 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: Mobil to underwrite a new program on PBS. 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 5: Good Evening, I'm Alice to Cook. 114 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: I found a transcript of an interview with Schmertz from 115 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one. It was part of the research for 116 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: a book about Masterpiece Theater, and there's this whole part 117 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: where Schmertz talks about how Alistair Cook, the guy you 118 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: just heard there, the host of Masterpiece, was embarrassed to 119 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: be associated with Mobile. Schmertz says, quote, I think that 120 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: he did not feel comfortable being associated with Mobile, and 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: he went to great lengths to avoid being associated beyond 122 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: what was necessary for the show. He didn't want to 123 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: appear to be flacking for an oil company. But it's 124 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: clear that Schmertz is kind of hurt by this. He 125 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: respected this guy. He talks about him as having style 126 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: and class, and then he talks about why he always 127 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: wanted journal hosting the shows that Mobile produce. He says, quote, 128 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: I think actors don't really have as much credibility as 129 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: journalists when they're talking about these kinds of shows. What's 130 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: also clear in that interview is that Schmertz was very 131 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: hands on with his work at PBS. He had script approval, 132 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: casting approval, and was one of, if not the key 133 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: decision maker on which shows ran during Masterpiece. In fact, 134 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: it was Schmertz who pushed them to air Upstairs Downstairs, 135 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: which the PBS team thought was to quote unquote, Commercial 136 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 2: Mobile CEO Rolly Warner was actually the first one to 137 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: recommend the show to Schmertz. It went on to be 138 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: Masterpiece's biggest hit. By the nineteen eighties, Mobil was spending 139 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: three million dollars a year on PBS programming, and Schmertz 140 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: was one of the most important men in British television. 141 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: In a weird way. You probably have him to thank 142 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: for Downton Abbey. Somehow he knew that the people he 143 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,679 Speaker 2: wanted to reach the influencers all hard for British TV. 144 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: He even specifically told the writers not to try to 145 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: write for an American audience, to keep it British. In 146 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, Mobile ran a survey and found that 147 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: thirty one percent of upscale Americans chose Mobile gas. Second place, 148 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: by a long shot was Exxon at sixteen percent. It 149 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: was all part of what Schmertz called affinity of purpose marketing. 150 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: This is why Schmertz kept sticking with PBS. It reached 151 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: the precise audience he was after that, and it was cheap. 152 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: He talked a lot about what a bargain it was, 153 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: which is kind of a bummer for PBS, who at 154 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,119 Speaker 2: the time was taking so much money from oil companies, 155 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: not just Mobile but also Exxon, Texico, and Chevron that 156 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: people were regularly referring to it as the petroleum Broadcasting system. 157 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 2: The oil companies, though, they were all getting a big 158 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: reputational boost, and that was the entire point. 159 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: Those I'd argue that this practice amounts to pseudo philanthropy, 160 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: in which course operations and the public are under a 161 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: false impression that something is actually being given away for 162 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: humanitarian purposes. 163 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: That's Schmertz on a panel about corporate philanthropy and whether 164 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 2: it actually exists. Spoiler alert, companies only spend money on 165 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: stuff that helps their bottom line. 166 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that I'd be that severe, but I 167 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: will tell you that this is one of the fastest 168 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: growing areas of tie in between corporate giving and marketing, 169 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: and it shows a sophistication and awareness on the part 170 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: of corporations that they can tie their business interests to 171 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: other interests in the cultural and educational and philanthropic area 172 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: and yet be able to show to whomever is interested, 173 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: whether it be shareholders or whatever, that there is a 174 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: bottom line payout for the giver. 175 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: When Schmertz wanted to combine the magic of his New 176 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: York Times dvertorials with his new taste for TV, he 177 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: was thwarted by a now forgotten piece of policy that 178 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: we talked about in season one, the Fairness Doctrine. Who 179 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: was an FCC policy that basically required balance not just 180 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: in coverage but advertising too. So if you ran an 181 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: ad for a liquor company, for example, you'd have to 182 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: give some free space to mothers against drunk driving, that 183 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: sort of thing. Schmertz made multiple different mobile advertorials and 184 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: He tried to get them placed on broadcast TV, at 185 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: first for free and then is paid advertising, but they 186 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: all turned him down, citing the fairness doctrine. So after 187 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 2: a lot of public complaining and accusing them of bias 188 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: and censorship, he made his own network, the Mobile Showcase Network. 189 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: It only produced shows occasionally, but Schmertz would find once 190 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 2: he liked, buy them, get them produced, and then offer 191 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: them to the fifty five or so stations in his network. 192 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: They were regular TV shows, totally just entertainment, but they 193 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: had these little Mobile Showcase ads before them that would 194 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: show mobile oilmen being good guy or talking about how 195 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: great energy was like this one. 196 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: Because I am the foreigner in another man's country. Every 197 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: time I look in the mirror, I say, who is that? 198 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 5: Yep, that's old vern Porter. 199 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 4: He didn't have to look over his shoulder at anybody because. 200 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: He's given it everything he's gotten. 201 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 4: Every day, vern Porter and other mobile people working around 202 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 4: the world to find and produce oil strive to build 203 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 4: deeper understanding between our culture and others. Watch for another 204 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 4: Mobile Showcase presentation. 205 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: Schmertz was great at finding ways around regulations on what 206 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 2: or how mobile could advertise and when he couldn't get 207 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: around them. He worked to change them. Here's environmental sociologist 208 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: Bob Rule. 209 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: And Mobile was one of the leading corporations to fight 210 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: for that legal right. There was a pretty big effort 211 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 3: to get a Supreme Court ruling that basically supported corporate 212 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 3: speech and the right of corporations to do advertising product advertising, 213 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 3: but of their positions. 214 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: That case was in nineteen seventy eight First National Bank 215 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: of Boston versus Bellatti, way before met Romney called corporations people, 216 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 2: this case determined their personhood. 217 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 3: And I don't think people really appreciate how big of 218 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 3: a deal that was in shifting the rules of speech 219 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: in the public space that now suddenly corporations could use 220 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: their budgets, which are enormously larger than individuals, to advocate 221 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 3: their position in the public space. And as a sociologist, 222 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 3: I would say that what this did was it allowed 223 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 3: for a systematic distortion of the public space. Is that 224 00:12:53,440 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 3: it gives corporations basically a loudspeaker to amplify their voice 225 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 3: above everybody else's. Bellatti is a very big deal, I think, 226 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: bigger than Citizens United. I mean Citizens United, you know, 227 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: opened up the whole campaign finance area, but Balladi opened 228 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: up the whole public space, all of the media to 229 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: do these kind of large scale corporate propaganda efforts. 230 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: You can see the results of that case everywhere today, 231 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: in the oil company's first amendment defense of climate denial, 232 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: in the absolute carpet bombing of fossil fuel ads right now, 233 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: in the total lack of regulation of advertising on social media. 234 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: We're in podcasts for that matter, We're living in the 235 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 2: world Herbschmert s dreamed of the one he helped to build. 236 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: Next time, we'll bring you the story not of one man, 237 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: but of a husband and wife, a power couple that 238 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: doctor once described to me as the quote intellectual parents 239 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: of climate Nile. Come back for that. They're still alive 240 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: and well, and you'll never guess what they're up to today. 241 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: Drilled is part of the Critical Frequency podcast Network. The 242 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: show is reported, written, and produced by me Amy Westervelt. 243 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: Julia Richie is our editor. Our managing producer is Katie Ross. 244 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: She also created this season's incredible artwork, sound design, scoring 245 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: and mixing by b Beman. Rica Murphy is our editorial advisor. 246 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: The Ambula Schaance is our fact checker. Special thanks to 247 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: Richard Wiles and to our First Amendment Attorney James Wheaton 248 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: and the First Amendment Project. Drilled is made possible in 249 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: part by a generous grant from the Institute for Governance 250 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: and Sustainable Development. We appreciate their support. You can find 251 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: Drilled on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you get 252 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: your podcasts. Don't forget to leave us a rating, a review. 253 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 2: It really helps the show. And you can follow us 254 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: on Twitter now at we are Drilled and visit our 255 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: new website drillednews dot com for climate accountability, reporting, newsletters, 256 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: and behind the scenes stories from this season. Thanks for 257 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: listening and we'll see you next time.