1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio. And how the tech 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: are Yet. So this past weekend two films did quite 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: well at the box office here in the United States. 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: And while I could do an episode about Barbie, talking about, 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: you know, some of the Barbie dolls and various toys 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: that have crossed over into the tech sphere and some 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: of the issues that those toys created, primarily regarding you know, 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: privacy concerns, I thought instead we'd talk about the atomic 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: bombs used in World War Two Batman and Little Boy, 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: because you know, Oppenheimer was also a pretty big hit 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: at the box office this weekend. So in World War two, 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 1: the United States dropped two different types of atomic bombs 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: on the US hit Hiroshima with a bomb called Little Boy, 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: and Little Boy used uranium enriched uranium as the fissionable 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,639 Speaker 1: material that would produce the intense energy of the bomb. 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: And then the US dropped a bomb on Nagasaki. That 19 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: one was called fat Man. Fat Man had a plutonium core, 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: not uranium. But how did these bombs actually work well. 21 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: First of all, it boils down to atomic physics. So 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: some heavier atoms are unstable, and you know, with the 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: right instigating incident or with enough time, the heavier atom 24 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: will split into smaller atoms and release neutrons. Also in 25 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: the process doing this ends up also releasing a tremendous 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: amount of energy. Splitting the atom is also called fission, 27 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: and this is the type of technology our nuclear power 28 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: play rely upon. The big difference being that in nuclear 29 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: power plants you have a controlled nuclear fission reaction and 30 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: in a bomb, ultimately you have an uncontrolled chain reaction 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: that releases a tremendous amount of energy. Now, you do 32 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: get a whole lot of energy just by splitting one atom, 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: but you could really get a big release if you 34 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: were able to set up a chain of atomic reactions. 35 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: So how do you do that? How did the engineers 36 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: and scientists who worked for the Manhattan Project, because that 37 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: was the name of the project that developed the atomic 38 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: bomb for the United States, how would they guarantee a 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: chain reaction? Well, let's talk about those two elements that 40 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: were used in each of the atomic bombs, or rather, 41 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: you know uranium in Little Boy and plutonium and fat Man. 42 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: So the type of uranium that little Boy used was 43 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: uranium two thirty five. Fat Man was dependent upon plutonium 44 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: two thirty nine. Both of these are isotopes, and both 45 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: of these isotopes regularly undergo fission. They are very much 46 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: ready to split apart with the right situation. Now, the 47 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: way you start all that is that you shoot the 48 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: isotope with a fast moving particle, essentially a neutron neutrally 49 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: charged particle, sub atomic particle that if you were to 50 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: shoot that at a uranium two thirty five atom and 51 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: it makes contact, Essentially, the two thirty five would absorb 52 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: that neutron and then the atom would split apart and 53 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: in the process also release other neutrons, So that neutron 54 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: strikes the isotope, you get the split, you get more 55 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: neutrons released. If you've got more atoms of that same 56 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: heavy atom, like U two thirty five, packed together, then 57 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: the release neutrons can make contact with those uranium atoms 58 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: and then cause the reaction to continue. So you've got 59 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: to pack enough of these atoms together to increase the 60 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: chances of that happening. You know, keep in mind, like 61 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: when we're talking about atoms like very very tiny stuff 62 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: and subatomic particles even tinier. You've got to pack a 63 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: whole lot of it together to increase the odds of 64 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: a neutron hitting an isotope. Otherwise, if it doesn't, if 65 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: the neutron ends up being absorbed by something else or 66 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: escapes or whatever, then it doesn't continue the reaction. You 67 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: have to have it set up so it creates the 68 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: sort of domino effect, except we're not talking on one 69 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: to one relationship here. It'd be a domino effect where 70 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: you know, you have a domino that, when you knock 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: it over, makes contact with two other dominoes at the 72 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: same time, knocking both of those over, which in turn 73 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: make contact with two other dominoes, and so on and 74 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: so forth, so that by knocking one domino over, you'll 75 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: ultimately knock over a whole bunch. Same idea here, except 76 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: we're talking about isotops. We're talking about individual atoms and 77 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: packing enough of them together so that you do get 78 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: this chain reaction. And once you do that and you 79 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: have nothing there to rain in that chain reaction, you 80 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: get a truly tremendous release of energy in the process. 81 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: So again we use the same sort of process in 82 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: nuclear power plants. But we have tools there and processes 83 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: that allow engineers to control the sequence, this rate of release, 84 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: and that way they can release enough in order to 85 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: generate electricity. So, in other words, they can allow this 86 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: process to occur at a specific rate, and then the 87 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: energy they release in the process they can use to 88 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: generate electricity. I'm actually skipping a step here because the 89 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: energy that gets released ends up essentially being incredibly intense heat, 90 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: which you then use to turn water into superheated steam, 91 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: use that to turn turbines which generate electricity. The steam 92 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: eventually condenses down into water, and then that's in its 93 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: own closed system, and you just keep doing that. But 94 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: in a bomb, you don't have these tools and processes 95 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: to keep it under control. Right. You don't have a 96 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: way of absorbing neutrons, for example, So the whole point 97 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: is to get that uncontrolled chain reaction that, by the way, 98 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: is not a foregone conclusion. You can't really control where 99 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: a release neutron is going to go, So again, you 100 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: have to have the right amount of fissionable material in 101 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: the right density, otherwise your bomb will only release a 102 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: fraction of the energy you were planning on and you 103 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: won't get the effect you were hoping for. It won't 104 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: be nearly as devastating. And the only reason to use 105 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: a weapon as devastating as an atomic bomb or nuclear 106 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: weapon is to convince an opponent to surrender, because it's 107 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: just such a truly devastating weapon, and it's not like 108 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: you can use it to target specifically just military installations 109 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: for example. You're going to be taking out civilian sites 110 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: and innocent people who are not soldiers. So it's a horrible, 111 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: horrible weapon, and the only reason you use it is 112 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: to convince your opponent to surrender. Anyway, in order to 113 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: do that, you have to make sure you've got enough 114 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: fissionable material in your bomb, or else it's not going 115 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: to have the effect you want and the conflict will 116 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: just continue. So you have to reach what is called 117 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: critical mass. This is the mass of fissionable material you 118 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: need in order to start a chain reaction. That mass 119 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: is completely dependent upon things like how much volume the 120 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: fissionable material takes up, which we'll talk about when we 121 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: get to the fat Man. So the more material you have, 122 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: or the more mass you have, the greater the odds 123 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: are that neutrons that get released in this reaction are 124 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: going to hit another heavy atom, another heavy isotope, and 125 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: you've arrived at critical mass when it's likely that a 126 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: release neutron is going to create a subsequent heavy atom 127 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: to split and release more neutrons. Now, finding out what 128 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: it would take to achieve critical mass, that was a 129 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: big part of the work over at the Manhattan Project 130 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: was to actually determine what that would be. How much 131 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: enriched uranium or how much plutonium two thirty nine would 132 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: you actually need in order to achieve this and have 133 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: it be a chain reaction that actually works. So Oppenheimer 134 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: and others, he wasn't the only one, obviously, this was 135 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: a huge team of scientists and engineers who worked on 136 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: the Manhattan Project. They were trying to develop a weapon 137 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: that could initiate an atomic reaction that would rapidly consume 138 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: a core of heavy atoms to generate an enormous destructive 139 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: wave of energy. That was the whole goal, and they 140 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: came up with two different ways of doing that using 141 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: the two different elements of you know, uranium two thirty 142 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: five in one case and plutonium two thirty nine in 143 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: the other. So first we'll talk about uranium two thirty five, 144 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: also known as refined uranium, because most of the uranium 145 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: we encounter naturally on Earth is a totally different isotope. 146 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: It's not you two thirty five, it's uranium two thirty eight. 147 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: And you might wonder why does that make a difference, 148 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: Like why is one type of uranium useful for weapons 149 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: and the other one isn't. Well to do that, we 150 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: have to talk about isotopes. So an isotope is just 151 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: a form of an element, right, you have, and when 152 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: you're talking about isotopes, you're talking about two or more 153 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: forms of the same element. Each isotope of an element 154 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: will have the same number of protons as all the 155 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: other isotopes of that element, right, because if you were 156 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: to add or subtract protons, you would change the element itself. 157 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: It would no longer be the element you started with. 158 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,239 Speaker 1: So the number of protons remains consistent across all isotopes. 159 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: The difference is in the number of neutrons that are 160 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: in the nucleus. So uranium two thirty five has one 161 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: hundred forty three neutrons in its nucleus. Uranium two thirty 162 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: eight has one hundred forty six neutrons, And this might 163 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: lead you to say, well, neutrons are neutrally charged. That's 164 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: why they're called neutrons. They have a neutral charge. How 165 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: does that make it a difference, Like, what difference do 166 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: three neutrons make? Well, isotopes can actually have different chemical 167 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: properties from one another, which is kind of crazy, right, 168 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: You're talking about two things of the same element, but 169 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: they can have different chemical properties. So uranium two thirty 170 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: five and uranium two thirty eight are both isotopes of uranium, 171 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: but they don't always behave the same way. So let's 172 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: take uranium two thirty eight. Now, I mentioned that to 173 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: initiate nuclear fission, you would fire a neutron at an 174 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: isotope and it would split that isotope up. But if 175 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: you were to fire a neutron at uranium two thirty eight, 176 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: instead of splitting up, it could just capture that neutron 177 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: and become uranium two thirty nine. So instead of two 178 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: thirty eight, you got two thirty nine, but you don't 179 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: get that split. And that means that if uranium two 180 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: thirty eight absorbs the neutron and becomes uranium two thirty nine, 181 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: there's no chain reaction because it didn't split apart. It 182 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: didn't release more neutrons to cause that reaction to continue. 183 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: So your reaction would go nowhere. You would just have 184 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: uranium two thirty nine now, and that wouldn't do you 185 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: any good. You wouldn't have an explosion. Uranium two thirty 186 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: five is a totally different story. If you fire a 187 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: neutron at uranium two thirty five, you're gonna get an 188 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: atomic split and a whole butt load of energy in 189 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: the process. But here's the thing. Uranium two thirty eight, 190 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: that's the stuff that's abundant. That's the stuff we can 191 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: find naturally on Earth. Uranium two thirty five makes up 192 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: less than one percent of naturally existing uranium, which meant 193 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: the scientists had to develop a means to refine uranium 194 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: two thirty eight into uranium two thirty five. All Right, 195 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, 196 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,599 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about the challenges that the engineers and 197 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: scientists of the Manhattan Project were facing. We're back now. 198 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: During the Manhattan Project, obviously time was ticking. This wasn't 199 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: some R and D project that could just take as 200 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: much time as necessary. There was actually a war on 201 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: there was a concern that access nations could be developing 202 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: their own atomic weapons. So the United States poured a 203 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: lot of resources into this research, and the desire was 204 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: to find a process that would work, and it didn't 205 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: matter which process it was, So actually the Manhattan Project 206 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: was pursuing different strategies simultaneously. One of the overseers of 207 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: the Manhattan Project was General Leslie Groves, who authorized four 208 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: separate projects to explore how to refine you two thirty 209 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: eight into You two thirty five. And again they wanted results. 210 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: They didn't really care which one was going to be 211 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: the best. They just needed that uranium. So the scientists 212 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: already knew that standard chemical processes were not going to 213 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: necessarily work to refine You two thirty eight into You 214 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: two thirty five because the two isotopes, while they are different, 215 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: share enough chemical similarities that it just wasn't going to 216 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: be a way forward. So instead they looked at methods 217 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: that included liquid thermal diffusion, gaseous diffusion, separating the components 218 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: with the centrifuge, and electromagnetic separation. I should probably do 219 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: an episode really that really focuses on those four specific approaches, 220 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: but for the process here, it just meant that they 221 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: were able to generate enough you two thirty five to 222 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: make a viable weapon. So they finally got enough fissionable 223 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: material to construct a bomb. They did a test bomb, obviously, 224 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: but they also put together Little Boy. This bomb worked 225 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: on what was called a gun type device inside of it. 226 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: The bomb itself had a bunch of different elements so 227 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: that it would explode the way the engineers intended. That is, 228 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: it would explode in the air. This was not a 229 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: bomb that was meant to collide with the ground and 230 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: then explode. That would have limited its destructive capacity. So instead, 231 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: the engineers designed it so that at a specific altitude 232 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: it would initiate the explosion. So to achieve this, the 233 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: bomb actually had several systems on board to measure when 234 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: to ignite its explosive charge that would initiate the nuclear 235 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: reaction inside the bomb. So the explosive charge wasn't the 236 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: bomb itself. The explosive charge was kind of the trigger 237 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: to start the nuclear reaction, which then would release the 238 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: truly enormous amount of destructive energy. So the tools they 239 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: used in order to measure altitude for the bomb so 240 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: that it would go off at the correct height above 241 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: the target. Included barometric press sensors. Those measure barometric pressure, 242 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: so they would essentially monitor for the pressure to reach 243 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: a point that would indicate that it was at the 244 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: right altitude. But they also had radar altimeters on this bomb, 245 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: and they were essentially shooting down radio waves toward the 246 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: ground and listening back for echos, And when those echoes 247 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: would indicate that the bomb was at the proper altitude, 248 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: then it would trigger the explosive, the conventional explosive that 249 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: would then lead to the actual nuclear reaction. So if 250 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: you were able to look inside the Little Boy bomb, 251 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: you would see that the conventional explosives were at the 252 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: tail end of the bomb, and they would end up 253 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: driving forward some thick disks of uranium two thirty five. 254 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: So these disks, you know, they had a hole in 255 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: the center of them, and they were at the tail 256 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: end of the bomb. Like I said, the explosive would 257 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: go off, it would end up propelling these discs forward 258 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: toward the nose end of the bomb, just like a 259 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: gun would propel a bullet, Like you know when the 260 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: gunpowder inside a cartridge would ignite the gases expanding would 261 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: push the bullet through the barrel of a gun, similar 262 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: in that case, except there's no open end of this gun, 263 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: So this stack of thick disks would shoot forward. On 264 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: the opposite end of the bomb. In the nose end 265 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: of the bomb would be a stack of uranium two 266 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: thirty five that were at the diameter, so they would 267 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: fit inside those thick disks. So what happens is you've 268 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: got these two halves of a core essentially that came together, 269 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: and now you suddenly had this solid core of uranium 270 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: two thirty five. Also, there was some polonium inside this bomb. 271 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: The polonium would actually act as the release of neutrons 272 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: that would start the whole reaction going. So the conventional 273 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: explosives were necessary to get the kinetic energy that would 274 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: then launch this nuclear fission process that quickly became an 275 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: uncontrolled chain reaction and would release an enormous amount of energy. 276 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: In total, the Little Boy contained sixty four kilograms of 277 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: enriched uranium. That's a lot of uranium, and the explosion 278 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: it generated was the equivalent of fifteen kilo tons. So 279 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: when you hear explosives being talked about in kilotons or megatons, 280 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: whatever it may be. That's actually talking about how many 281 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: tons of TNT it would take to get an equivalent 282 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: release of energy. So fifteen kilotons means you would need 283 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand tons of TNT to get the equivalent explosion. So, yeah, 284 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: you had this bomb that at the right altitude would 285 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: have a gunshot essentially go off inside the bomb, the 286 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: two halves would come together, some neutrons would get released, 287 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: the nuclear reaction would immediately follow. You would get an instantaneous, 288 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: uncontrolled chain reaction. And this truly tremendous amount of energy 289 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: released overhead of the city because again they thought that 290 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: if they could release the energy in the air, they 291 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: would cause way more damage. It's hard to get your 292 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: mind wrapped around how much damage you're talking about. At 293 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: ground zero, where Little Boy exploded, there was a zone 294 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: of around like zero point thirty six square kilometers that 295 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: was just totally devastated. That was total, total destruction. Buildings 296 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: were leveled, Any buildings that were remain standing had such 297 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: structural damage that they were unstable. It would be possible 298 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: to have survived in that blast zone initially anyway, if 299 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: you were in a truly strong, stable structure underground really, 300 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: so like if you were at the bottom of a 301 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: really solid parking deck that wasn't just completely crushed by 302 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: the energy of this explosion, you could have survived the 303 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: initial blast potentially. However, there would be other issues, like 304 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: the intense amount of radiation would certainly cause problems that 305 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't be just the concussive force of this energy radiating outward. 306 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, pretty much at ground zero, you would have 307 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: people who likely would not survive either with the structures. 308 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: Beyond that, you would have a zone that would be 309 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: called like a moderate damage zone that could extend out 310 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: to a radius of around a mile or one point 311 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: six kilometers from the point of detonation. Here you would 312 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: still have substantial damage to structures. Some of them might 313 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: remain standing, but a lot of them would be leveled. 314 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: And depending upon where you were at the moment, and 315 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: if you were in a stable structure, you might have 316 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: made it through. You might have survived within that moderate zone, 317 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: but you would likely be in need of urgent medical 318 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 1: attention due to other things. Like you got to remember, 319 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: this explosion, it would create a like a fire ball 320 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: or a wall of fire really that would extend out 321 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: very quickly, and it was intense enough to vaporize you 322 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: if you were just outside. I mean, it was incredibly 323 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: intense energy. Beyond the moderate zone, then you have the 324 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: light damage zone. This could extend ten miles out from 325 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: ground zero. And even in this light damage zone, you 326 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: could have, you know, an increase in air pressure that 327 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: would cause all the windows to shatter. From there, you know, 328 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: you might have more or less superficial damage from the 329 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: actual physical blast, but again you still have the issues 330 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: with radiation, and obviously the damage would create other problems, 331 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: like you would get fires, and it would wipe out utilities. 332 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: Truly devastating weapon. I know I'm using that word a lot, 333 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: but I can't think of a word that's more fitting. Now. 334 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: It's actually really hard to estimate how many people died 335 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: from the detonation of Little Boy. There's a pretty huge 336 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: span of estimates here, Like on the low end, on 337 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: the low end of estimates, it's around seventy thousand who 338 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: died as a result of Little Boy exploding. On the 339 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: high end, you're talking one hundred and forty thousand, twice 340 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: as many. It's a really tough question to answer. For 341 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: one thing. Japanese authorities didn't have a really good handle 342 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: on how many people were living in these cities in 343 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: the first place, so it's hard to say, you know, 344 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: how many people were missing afterward. And then they're also 345 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: tougher parts of the question, like do you just count 346 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: the deaths that happened as a result of the initial 347 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: blast or the fires that were produced as part of it, 348 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: What about other hazards that were more long term, where 349 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,239 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't initially from the explosion, maybe it 350 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: was in the hours or days or weeks that followed it, 351 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: or if you're talking about radiation, what about the months 352 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: or years that followed. So it does make it very, 353 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: very very hard to estimate the number of deaths, but 354 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: clearly it was in the tens of thousands, and potentially 355 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: well over one hundred thousand, just or Hiroshima. All right, 356 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: we're going to take another quick break. When we come back, 357 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: we'll talk about fat Man and Nagasaki. Okay, So I 358 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: had mentioned that Little Boy used enrich uranium as its 359 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: fissionable material. Fatman used plutonium, and this meant that the 360 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: method that Little Boy used to initiate that nuclear reaction, 361 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: that gun method wouldn't have worked with fat Man. It 362 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: would actually have caused the bomb to undergo spontaneous vision 363 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: before the gun mechanism could even fire, which means the 364 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: bomb would lose a lot of its energy before it 365 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: could even explode. So again, you wanted to maximize the 366 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: effectiveness of this weapon, or at least that's what the 367 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: scientists and engineers wanted to do, because the whole purpose 368 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: was to create a weapon so terrible that your opponent 369 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: surrenders rather than risk being hit by it again. So 370 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: the team had to come up with a different way 371 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: to have the mechanism explode. So one of the problems 372 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: that they faced was actually that they needed to use 373 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: plutonium two thirty nine, but their reactors couldn't create pure 374 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: plutonium two thirty nine flawlessly. They kept creating trace amounts 375 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: of plutonium two forty and plutonium two forty that isotope 376 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: is more prone to spontaneous fission than plutonium two thirty nine. 377 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: So what they needed was they needed a way to 378 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: have a subcritical mass of plutonium. They needed it so 379 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: that it would not spontaneously undergo fission because the atoms 380 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: would be too widely spaced apart so you needed to 381 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: be subcritical until the moment when you needed to initiate 382 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: the nuclear reaction. Then you needed to somehow make this 383 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: subcritical mass become a critical mass. So their approach was 384 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: to surround a subcritical plutonium core with essentially a globe 385 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: of conventional explosives. So think of like, you know the 386 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: Earth has an iron core. Well, this was a explosive 387 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: globe with a plutonium core. And the conventional explosives were 388 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: designed so that they would ignite simultaneously and they would 389 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: explode and collectively create this tremendous pressure on the plutonium 390 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: core in the center implosion. In other words, that would 391 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: end up squeezing this plutonium core and increasing its density, 392 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: and that is what would push the plutonium core from 393 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: being subcritical to critical by essentially physically squishing all those 394 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: atoms closer together. Now, your subcritical plutonium mass is a 395 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: critical plutonium mass, and that means that once that nuclear 396 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: fission reaction can start, you've got yourself your chain reaction. Now, 397 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: this was a really efficient weapon. It was much larger 398 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: than Little Boy because you needed way more conventional explosives. Right, 399 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: the gun method only needed a relatively small amount of 400 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: conventional explosives to bring the two halves of the uranium 401 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: core together, but the fat Man bomb needed a lot 402 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: more conventional explosives to create that concussive blast that would 403 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: create the implosion. So the Fat Man was much larger 404 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: than the Little Boy, but it needed less fissionable material. 405 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: You know, the Little Boy needed sixty four kilograms of 406 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: uranium two thirty five. Fat Man only needed six point 407 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: four kilograms of plutonium. And while the Little Boy bomb 408 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: produced a fifteen kiloton explosion, fat Man yielded a twenty 409 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: one kiloton blast. So not only did it require less 410 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: fissionable material, it had a larger energy output. Despite that 411 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: more powerful blast, the estimates of casualties and not Kasaki 412 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: are much lower than for Hiroshima. Still, we're still talking 413 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people, so I don't want to 414 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: suggest that it wasn't many. It was a lot, It 415 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: just wasn't as many as what we saw in Hiroshima. 416 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: So on the low end, we're talking around forty thousand 417 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: people killed by this bomb. The high end puts that 418 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: at seventy thousand. So if we add both of those 419 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: events together, then the estimate of deaths ranges from one 420 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: hundred ten thousand on the low end to two hundred 421 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: ten thousand on the high end. The demonstration of such 422 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: destructive power was more than effective enough to force Japan 423 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: to surrender, because really, think about it, these were just 424 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: two attacks, and they were just carried out by two bombers, 425 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: and those two bombers killed more than one hundred thousand 426 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: people at the low end of estimates. That is a 427 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: truly grim kind of evidence to show that weapons capabilities. 428 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: And it would mean that if you know, if you 429 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: extended that and you thought, well, what if an entire 430 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: fleet of bombers were to fly over a country carrying 431 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: lots of those bombs, think of the devastation that would mean, Like, 432 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: you have no choice but to surrender. That was the 433 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: thought process, and it's exactly what did happen. But it 434 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: also launched countless debates about whether or not the US 435 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: was justified in using such incredibly powerful and deadly weapons 436 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: in an effort to end the war. Like the argument was, 437 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: if we don't use the weapon, the war continues, and 438 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: who knows how many people die. If we do use 439 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: the weapon, a whole bunch of people die, but the 440 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: war ends. Like it. It's a really tough dilemma that 441 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: I cannot easily dismiss. I mean, I certainly am anti bomb. 442 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: I am not pro bomb even in the slightest But 443 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: at the same time, it is very hard to figure 444 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: out what's the right approach if the opponent is not 445 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: already leaning towards surrender. And this conflict could go on indefinitely, 446 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: which means that the number of casualties is impossible to calculate. 447 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: It does get very hard. Oppenheimer himself was obviously deeply 448 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: conflicted over all this. On the one hand, he and 449 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: the team at the Manhattan Project had really cracked technical 450 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: and scientific challenges that were standing in the way of 451 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: creating an atomic or nuclear explosion. This was never a 452 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: foregone conclusion. It was a really challenging thing to do, 453 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: and they were able to achieve an incredible advance in 454 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: science and technical ability. But on the other hand, the 455 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: devastating effects of the bomb weighed heavily on him. He 456 00:29:54,280 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: very much struggled with the knowledge of how many died 457 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: as a result of the explosion of those bombs, and 458 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: it led to him opposing nuclear development and proliferation. He 459 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: foresaw an era of nuclear proliferation, in which you know, 460 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: countries would be compelled to develop nuclear weapons in a 461 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: way to act as a deterrent and protection against nuclear 462 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: capable countries, and in fact, that is what happened. And 463 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: for those of you who are around my age or 464 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: older who remember the Cold War and the age of 465 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: nuclear proliferation, there was just this sort of constant, ominous 466 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: possibility of nuclear conflict that hung over us, that made 467 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: its way into pop culture entertainment, and it was something 468 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: that people would occasionally talk about and probably not talk 469 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: about for too long because it was very disturbing. But 470 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: that's exactly where we went. It's where Oppenheimer kind of 471 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: assumed the world would go, in that you had to 472 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: develop this weaponry in an effort to protect yourself against 473 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: those who already had it at their disposal. And then 474 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: you had this sort of concept of mutually assured destruction 475 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: where a nuclear capable country could assure that it would 476 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: be able to destroy another nuclear capable country if nuclear 477 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: war were to happen, which theoretically would prevent nuclear war 478 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: from ever happening, because to initiate nuclear war would mean 479 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: you would know that you were you know you were 480 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: committing your entire country to destruction. So not a cheerful 481 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: way to approach conflict resolution obviously, and also not always 482 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: an effective way. We saw something very similar happen with 483 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: conventional war and leading up to World War One, and 484 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: it didn't work because people's you know, these countries started 485 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: to develop very powerful militaries with the thought being that 486 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: that would dissuade any kind of war within the continent 487 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: of Europe, and of course that that's not what happened. 488 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: So very scary. Also, I think it's relevant today because 489 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: not only do we still have to worry about nuclear weapons, 490 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: but we also have been talking a lot about AI 491 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: and how AI has become kind of another arms race, 492 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: and that there's this concern that even if a country 493 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: decides specifically to stay away from incorporating AI into military 494 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: processes and equipment and strategies, some other country may not 495 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: have that reluctance, And so if they do that, could 496 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: they end up having a military advantage? And can a 497 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: country afford to give other countries that military advantage, which 498 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: then drives the need to you know, embrace AI everywhere. 499 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: And we've already seen that that can be a really 500 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: scary thing. So yeah, I think Oppenheimer is just as 501 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: relevant today. Like I think that his story and the 502 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: story of the Manhattan Project and the conflict within the 503 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: teams at Manhattan Project, I think it's still very much 504 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: relevant today. We're seeing the same sorts of discussions and 505 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: debates play out in the AI space, and yeah, it's 506 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: scary stuff. It's scary and it's not easy. Like again, 507 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: I am personally anti like weapons that kill lots and 508 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: lots of people, especially people who have no direct connection 509 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: with conflict. I'm very much against that. But I also 510 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: can't pretend like I have the solutions that would lead 511 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: to everybody joining hands and singing songs unless it really 512 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: is as simple as buying everybody a coke. I was 513 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: taught in the seventies, and that's all it takes. I 514 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: remain skeptical, but I have to admit I haven't tried 515 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: it because I don't I don't live in that tax bracket. 516 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: But if I ever do, I'll give it a shot. 517 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: It's got to be better than developing massive weapons. I 518 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: hope you were all well, I'm curious how many of 519 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: you went to see either Barbie or Oppenheimer. I haven't 520 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: made it out to either, not because I didn't want to, 521 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: but because when I started to look for tickets, I 522 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: couldn't find seats together in a place that wasn't way 523 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: off to the side or way in the front. And 524 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: I go to so few movies. I just can't. I 525 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: can't put myself in a position where I'm gonna get 526 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: a terrible crick in my neck trying to watch a film. 527 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: So I'm waiting a little bit longer so i can 528 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: see I am playing seeing both of them. By the way, 529 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: I have a desire to see both of those movies. 530 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: But if you did see them, I'm curious what you 531 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: thought you can reach out to me. We still have 532 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: a well, I guess now it's an x account. Used 533 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: to be called Twitter, but Elon must change that to x. 534 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: I'll talk about that more tomorrow. That's called tex stuff 535 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: HSW If you want to send a message there, although 536 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: I may not even see it because it's hard for 537 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: me to log into that account. Now, you can just 538 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: tweet at me or x at me whatever it's called now. 539 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: My handle is John Strickland. That's j o En Strickland. 540 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: But you can also find me on threads and if 541 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: you're on Blue Sky. You can find me there too, 542 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: John Strickland and all of those. And hope you're all well, 543 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff 544 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 545 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 546 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.