WEBVTT - Finding the Unexpected Gift of Trauma 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:07.440 My mom grew up with going to therapy is a weakness. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.840 Now it's being more normalized now people understand, but it's 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:12.320 like it's the best thing that ever happened to me. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.880 What exactly is trauma? 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.239 Trauma is a subjective definition in some way, because I 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.880 cannot tell you if your traumatized or not. This topic 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.200 of post traumatic growth is precisely for people that have 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.800 gone through difficult experiences like you, and they turn this 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:31.720 pain into a purpose. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:40.600 Yes, Hey, what up, y'all? Welcome back to my podcast, 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.239 Cheeky's in Chill. Today's episode is going to be a 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.320 little heavy. That's because we're going to be talking about trauma, 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.120 but not in the typical way. Yes, we're going to 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.880 talk about what trauma is, but we're also going to 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.520 talk about some of the so called gifts of trauma. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.000 And we have a really great guest with us today, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:57.760 so let's. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:58.240 Get into it. 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:08.720 This is Cheeky's and here with me today is clinical 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.480 psychologist Edith Shiro. She's based in Miami and she has 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.080 a private practice there where she specializes in trauma. She's 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.440 also the author of the book The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.840 Doctor Hiro, Thank you so much for being here. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.440 Thank you, Thank you so much for this invitation. I 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.480 love sharing time with you and spend them with your 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:30.280 thank you. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.080 You're so sweet, You're so sweet. Thank you. I'm so excited. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:34.760 I mean, I have so many questions for you, but 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.200 I want to start off with your background. What interested 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.399 you in, you know, studying trauma. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.360 I always have this very professional answer, but I also 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.160 have a very personal answer, and my answer is that 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.600 I come from a family of war survivors, ho local survivors. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.560 My grandparents were in concentration camps. My other set of 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.440 grandparents are refugees from Syria. And I am myself, like 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.440 as you know, and you probably too, a immigrant in 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.280 a few different countries. So that experience of going through 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.040 traumatic events and then living it myself in some way, 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.200 I mean, I have a few traumatic experiences, but myself 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.840 having informed me not only for my personal of obviously 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.320 in my personal life, but my professional work. So I've 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.360 always had this curiosity, you know, in the community that 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.959 I was living in Venezuela, of like how all these 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:30.600 immigrants and people were adjusting to the country, and a 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.160 lot of them came from war torn countries, and you know, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.360 difficult journeys to get to South America, And that was 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.799 always my question, how do people survive? How do people 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.000 do this? How come some people do so well like 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.680 my grandfather, for example, and some people do so bad 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.640 like my grandmother, you know, Like it was this conscioust 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.560 and I was super curious of the human condition. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.560 So how old were you when you realize this? When 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.720 you realize I want to study trauma? 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.480 So so I've always been interested in psychology ever since 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.920 I was a little girl, and people in my school 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.800 always called me like the psychologists, and people would come 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.400 to me and to ask me questions, and I was 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.320 very curious about the human condition. Also when I had 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.400 to formalize my years of study, there was always a 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.040 research question, and my questions always came to how come 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.200 some people have more and more in touch with their 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.639 feelings and some are not? Why people having personality traits 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:32.079 that help them drive in life and some people stay stuck? 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.360 Like I've always had these questions. And also my doctoral 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.600 dissertation twenty five years ago was on post traumatic growth. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.360 So really my book, I wrote this twenty five years 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.840 ago already, like all this research and all this stuff 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.440 was already Yeah, so it's been really my interest to 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:47.160 my life. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.400 Oh, I love that's what you were born to do this. 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.480 You were born to do this, and that's and I'm 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.040 asking how old you were because I've wanted to study 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.680 psychology since I can remember, since I was in high 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.880 school because I was actually molested by my dad, and 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:02.880 I started going to therapy at twelve, and I said, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.040 oh my gosh, this really helped me. I'm a different 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.440 person after therapy. I want to help people. Of course, 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:09.720 life changed and I had to help my mom and 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.480 I wasn't able to go to school. But I'm like, 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.600 darn it, Hey, maybe it's not. It's never too late, 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.120 you know, maybe I could, you know, and still do 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.240 it because it's something I'm very passionate about. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.919 No, thank you for sharing the tickets. Thank you for 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.520 sharing that. And I'm actually very impressed that you were 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.880 in therapy at twelve. That doesn't usually happen because parents 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.680 are not usually that aware that being in therapy is 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.640 so helpful, especially when you've had an experience like that. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.960 Yeah, and you know what it was the police department, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.080 I believe, or the doctor that I went to see 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.880 because my mom she grew up with going to therapy 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.760 is a weakness sort of thing, right, you know, so 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:50.840 she didn't she didn't know any better. So to her, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.679 it's like, what do you mean you need therapy? That's 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.480 for someone that's not mentally okay, And it's like now 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.640 it's being more normalized. Now you know, people understand. But 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:00.240 it's like, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.760 It was going to therapy, which is why it sparked 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.800 that in me. So anyway, that's why I wanted to 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.479 ask you so thank you for sharing. Now I know 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:07.480 you were born to do this. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.680 Yeah, but actually, but actually I'm curious why you say that, 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.680 because you know, this topic of phostraumatic growth is precisely 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.280 for people that have gone through such difficult experiences like you, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.640 and they turned this pain into a purpose. Then they 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.920 turned you know, the one becomes the medicine. Yeah, the 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:31.320 breakdown becomes the breakthrough. So you're such a beautiful example 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:32.479 of phostromedic growth. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.599 Thank you, Thank you. That's what I had to do. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.080 You know, I was very shy to talk about it 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.239 for so long, and I said why, I mean, let's 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.599 just keep it under wraps. And my mom was the 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.480 one that helped me with that and said, you know what, 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.599 You're going to help other little girls. And from then 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.120 it just something just clicked in my mind and I said, yes, 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.400 I have to help people. This happened to me for 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.160 a reason because God knew I was going to be 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.320 able to get out of it to help other people. 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.479 And it's like you said, I turned it into a 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.599 purpose into something positive. So if you can explain to 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.600 me and to my listeners, what exactly is trauma? 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.600 Yeah, So I get asked that question all the time, 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.600 and I love it because trauma has been changing in 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.320 its definition. Maybe fifty years ago, we will talk about trauma, 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.960 refer to the soldiers that would come from war, from 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.080 the Vietnam War, from the you know, and they'd say, oh, yes, 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.640 that somebody that is traumatized. That's when the definition of 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.160 post traumatic stress disorder became into like the diagnosis, the 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.600 clinical diagnosis of psychiatry and psychology. That's when it got 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.080 more accepted. Right in the nineteen seventies, I would say, 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.240 But then as we move along and we learn more 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.200 about the traumatization and the experiences that are difficult for people, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.000 we've expanded at least in the way that I work, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.120 we've expanded the concept of trauma, and in my book, 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.919 I offer that definition of trauma that is any overwhelming 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.719 experience for which we don't have the tools, and any 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:06.000 experience that shatters your belief system about yourself, about others, 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:07.960 and about the world right and then you have to 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.080 like rearrange who you are and who other people are 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.000 and how the world functions at that moment. You don't 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.760 have the tools, you don't have the resources to really comprehend. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.600 And it can be like a big thing. It can 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.560 be a work, It can be earthquake. It can be 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.480 sexual abuse, it can be an accident, can be the 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.520 loss of a loved one, but also cheekies. It can 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.600 be small things. It can be the microaggressions that you 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.000 live when you walk down the street and you're being 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.920 rejected or discriminated against, or when you're being bullied in 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.800 school for many years, or when you get divorced and 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:43.880 then all of a sudden you lose not only your 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.520 partner but also your friends, or when you don't get 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.240 invited into your friend's house and then you know, all 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.600 your girlfriends you know stop talking to you. Like these 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.200 are things that for some people are very traumatizing, for 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.480 some people are not. And that's why trauma is a 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.520 subjective definition in some way, because I cannot tell you 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.040 if you're traumatized or not. I mean, you are the 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:05.520 one that can tell me. You know, what they did. 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.320 The pandemic was very traumatizing for me. Okay, maybe for 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.960 me it wasn't, but for you it was super traumatizing. 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.720 So I'm not the one to like define for you 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:16.840 it's traumatic or not. So that's why I want to 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.640 expand the definition. 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.560 I love that. I love that because I think so 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.640 many people need to also be okay with My experience 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.160 is different from yours, and it's okay, it's not. That's 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.640 why I don't like people saying sometimes, oh, you're so dramatic. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.000 Wait a second, it didn't. It affected me in a 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.720 different way like you said. For instance, the pandemic, some 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:40.560 people thrive, some people loved it. Some people were just traumatized, 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.680 like you said. So I love that you explain this 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.959 because I don't want people to feel ashamed. If anything, 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.040 we all deal with things differently, So I love that. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:53.800 I want to also ask you, like, how do people 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.640 know when to seek help? 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:01.200 Yeah? So I always think that being in reallyglationship is 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.040 the best meaning, like being able to express how you 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:07.240 feel and identify your emotions and being able to be 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.000 getting validated is always important. So you don't have to 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.440 wait until you're very traumatized for that. But one of 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.679 the signs that we can see is if you're feeling 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.360 triggered by things that happen in your life and you 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:26.000 have like disproportionate reactions, if you are having recurrent nightmares, 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.480 if you're having hyper arousals, if you're constantly paranoid at 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.880 what's going on, if you're having the typical fight, slight 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.880 or phrase response in your everyday life, and I can 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:39.320 tell you more about that. If you are repeating a 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.680 behavior over and over and over and you don't know 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.960 where where's that coming from. It's like I know I'm 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.640 doing this wrong, and I keep falling into it, and 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.559 I keep doing it and I can get out of it. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.199 If you're having addictive behaviors, you know, addictions are invariably 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.200 a response to a very traumatic event earlier in life. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.880 So all these things are signed of like traumatic ev 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:01.480 and then you have to seek help. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.679 Okay, So you guys, you guys, hear that, okay, And 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.280 I don't want anyone that is listening to feel like 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.199 something is wrong with them, like they are broken. We 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.800 all go through things, you guys. I have gone through 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:15.760 a lot of things, and I think is just seeking help. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.280 And there's nothing wrong with asking for help, you guys. 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:19.720 So just want to put that out there. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.240 In my book, I offer these five stages of how 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.120 to get there, and the first stage is a radical acceptance. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.520 And that's exactly what you did during the pandemic. You 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.920 went into that place of halls and say, Okay, let 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.080 me look at the situation in the face. Let me 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.560 be honest, like radically honest with myself. Let's put a 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.880 name and identify what's going on with me, what's going 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.320 on with my marriage, what's happening in my life this time, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.080 and let's call it for what it is. And that's 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.439 when you really begin to do through this process of change, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.600 and that's when you're able to get that gift on 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:01.400 the other side. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.360 You know, Yes, oh my goodness, thank God, thank God 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:09.760 for you, for you and for you. What can you 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.400 tell us, like what prevents people now that we're talking 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.960 about healing, you know, and coming out on the other side, 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:17.920 like what prevents people from healing? 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.520 Yeah, that's a great, great, great, great question. So block 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:27.120 number one is thinking that trauma is a life sentence 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.640 and thinking, Okay, oh yeah, I was sexually abused. That's 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.000 it I'm doing. I'm miserable, my life is going to 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.840 be the worst, that have no way out, not knowing 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.679 that there are other possibilities. Another kind of blocking is 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:46.479 when the context and the people around are continuing to oppress, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.600 you know, the person and not allowing that prefer that 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.400 person to come out. For example, women that are experiencing 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.920 domestic violence, if they live in a country which they're 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.240 not even able to voice that to be validated for that, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.200 are they going to even begin to deal with trauma? 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.440 You know what I mean? It's like they're in a 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.640 country like, Okay, they have to be oppressed, they have 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.000 to be abused, they are like not treated properly and 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.320 not treated with the respect and the honor that it 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.440 requires for another human being, you can even begin to 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.959 heal from trauma. And that goes for collective trauma too. Chikis. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.440 For example, we go our countries, our Latin American countries 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:29.200 that have been in different kinds of oppression, dictatorship, or colonization. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.200 How can we even begin to heal from those traumas 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.760 as a collective right if we don't acknowledge that, if 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.360 we don't realize it, if we don't put a name 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.319 to it, if we don't identify and say, okay, this 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.040 is what happened, this is exactly what's going on, and 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.880 have that radical honesty. So there are a lot of variables. Also, 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.160 of course there are personality traits, there are other systemic 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.319 situations contacting or that influenced. But yeah, these are some 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.000 of the things that really block the being able to 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:00.400 or heal. 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:02.800 Okay, and do you think, like, for instance, to take 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.439 away all those exterior things. You know, the first step 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.680 would be and I mean this is something I believe, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.120 but the first step would be accepting, accepting, Okay, this happened. 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:14.560 What can I do? Correct? 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.480 Absolutely? The first step is, you know, stop ruminating about it. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.360 You know how a lot of people, I mean, I 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.440 used to do this. Also, It's like you stay in 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.360 that thought and it keeps repeating, I'm not good, I'm 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.120 not good. I mean, you know, this is horrible. The 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.080 worst is going to happen. That kind of rumination is 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.040 not helped people that tend to really look at the 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.880 very very negative, hopeless, and that's part of the traumatic experience, right. 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.800 So it's when you're able to put a stop for that, 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.280 even if it's a pause, even because you're suffering so much. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.680 Usually this is when it happens that you're suffering so 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.640 much and you're so uncomfortable and you're so like fed up, 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.920 like you hear rock Bottom and you say, that's it, 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.000 that's it. I have to do something different because I 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.959 can't take it anymore. That's when people begin to change. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.160 That's when it's like it really touches something that says, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.079 I can't handle it anymore. I've been an addict, I've 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.440 been drinking, I'm about to destroy all life. Or I've 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.880 been treated badly my life. I need to change my 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.760 lit or I you know, my relationships are going horrible 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.600 from one to the worst to the worst. I need 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.760 to do something about it. So that's when the change 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:18.600 begins to happen. 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.720 Yeah, So it's like saying, yeah, as the key, I'm 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.720 not doing this anymore. I want to change, accepting it 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.560 and seeking help you guys, and just really doing the work. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.600 Which is the second stage, the second stage of you 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.240 know what I'm proposing is this seeking help, which I 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.160 think you did amazingly. I mean that's unusual. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:37.720 Thank you. 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.240 Yeah, to really say, it's called safety protection. It's like, okay, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.440 I know what I have. Let me trust somebody. Usually 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.960 it's a family member, Usually is a therapist, Usually is 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.840 a guru, a group, an organization that you reach out 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.920 and you say please, you know, I'm here, and you're 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.760 being validated and you're being recognized. Like so, if you're 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.080 twelve years old and you've sexually abused, it takes an 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.080 adult that validates that experience and say, you know what, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.520 I understand what happened. I'm sorry it's happened to you. 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:09.320 Let's get help. 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:14.200 But there's that recognition, that acknowledgment that something is going on. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.840 Like when you're a Let's say you have an addiction. Yes, 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.080 you have an addiction to shopping, you know, to the phone, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.200 you know, to pornography. Yes, okay, I have an addiction. 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.800 Let's talk about it. Yes, I recognize it. The other 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.000 person is recognizing for you. Let's do something about it. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.720 Then start looking for what are the appropriate ways to help? 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.240 Yes? Absolutely, Oh my goodness, I'm loving this conversation. By 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.760 the way, it's right up my alley is there. Do 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.760 you have anything like type of exercises or ways that 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.280 people can cope with it until they find the help 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:53.240 and find a therapist, because I think that's the beautiful thing. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.160 You guys. All people that listen to me know that 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.440 I'm a huge advocate for therapy and counseling and life 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:59.960 coaching and all that stuff. And it's important to find 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.120 someone that you connect with, you know, and like doctor 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.120 Cherrol said, someone that's going to recognize and validate your feelings. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.040 And I think sometimes that's all we need. It's like, Okay, 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.960 you're not crazy, it's okay, I know you're talking about 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.360 let me help, you give us tools. But for someone 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:15.320 that let's say, can't afford it or can't have it, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.240 hasn't found or can't find someone, what exercises or what 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.120 can you tell them or tell us how to cope, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.480 how to you know, start the process. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.200 Yeah, so listen, the trauma what it does? It fragments 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.280 and isolates it. Really, that's like a major thing that 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:39.160 does why because we are in shame, we are humiliated, 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.120 we are embarrassed, like oh my god, this happened to me. 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:43.800 How am I even going to talk about it? I'm 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.680 embarrassed even with my own self, like looking at myself 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:48.960 in the mirror for what I'm doing or for I'm being. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.240 So it's very difficult to break free from that. That's 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.040 why I'm saying, like healings for courageous people, like it 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.320 takes a lot of courage to do this. And yes 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.720 it's not always therapy. That could be the thing there, 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.000 and not everybody has access to that, unfortunately not yet. 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.760 Hopefully that will change. But you know, having a person 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:15.160 a space that can be a safe space, a holding space. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.199 It's good enough. If you have a best friend that 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.400 is willing to listen, not to judge, not to tell 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:24.480 you what not to do, just to listen and to 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.639 hold you. If you have a yoga teacher that is 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.399 wise enough to really sit with you and identify these 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.479 things and listen to you and give you emotional support. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.520 If you have a family member, if you have a 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.320 group of people in your family, if you have a 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.800 group of friends that you feel comfortable enough, if you 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:46.199 have a religious organization that's say or spiritual, it doesn't 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.360 really matter so much what the context is and who 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.600 the person is, but it has to be a place 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:52.520 that is safe. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.560 Yes, I agree. Feeling safe is so huge. You guys, 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.280 tell us a little bit more about the book, just 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.800 because I think it's a beautiful It's a beautiful gift 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:09.400 in itself. 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.800 Thank you, thank you. I'm very, very very excited about 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.240 it because it's been cooking there inside of me for 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.760 all these years, and I finally, at some point, like 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:20.560 three years ago, I was like, I have it right 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.200 here in my throat and I need to get it out. 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.280 Oh my god, thank goodness, Yeah, thank goodness. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.760 Yeah, I'm very very happy, and people have been very 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.280 receptive and very grateful for that. The first part of 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.320 the book is more like defining what trauma is, what 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:41.440 post traumatic growth is, the intergenerational transmission of trauma, collective trauma. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.919 I talk about it, be genetics. I talk about a 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.800 few different things to clarify, you know, and topics that 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.280 people ask me all the time. The second part of 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.720 the book is the five stages. That it's very interesting 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.840 because you can you can look at the book and see, like, Okay, 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.320 which stage am I in right now? And there are 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.760 a few exercises for each day each where you can 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:02.679 be at the end of a book there's like a 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.399 questionnaire like are you in post traumatic growth or not? 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.359 So it's like a dynamic book in that sense, like 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.560 you can open it at any page and say, Okay, 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.560 let me see where I'm at with this, or let 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.520 me look at you know, maybe this stage or the 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.159 next stage, or how he loves it flow. Yeah. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:18.919 I was going to tell you because I'm kind of 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.320 that type of reader. I'm a skimmer and I like 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:22.840 books like that where I could just be like, Okay, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:24.560 let me see where I open it, and that's what 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.240 my soul needs in the moment exactly. So I love that. 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:30.760 And can you share just a few, like what a 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.480 few gifts of trauma with us without giving up too much? 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.600 But no, but listen, I mean I think everybody that 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.040 goes through their w own trauma and does the work 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.880 of this process gets a gift, every single one. So 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.520 every patient, every group, every community that I work with 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.240 when they go through this experience. For example, I work 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.880 with ninety eleven people, work with Cambodian refugees. I work 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.960 with it and not remember in Miami surf site collapse 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.719 when ninety eight people died. Yeah, So even in like 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.080 little moments like that, for example, a lot of the 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:09.520 survivors created a sort of a community and became a family, 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.200 you know, and that was incredible to see. And it's 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.800 been a year and a half and people still are 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.320 connected in that way. So, yes, it's a tragedy. It's horrible. 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.280 I don't wish it or anybody, but what comes out 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.320 of it sometimes is like people have rearranged their lives. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.000 I had a couple that went through infidelity. This was 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.720 during the pandemic, and they were desperate. You know. She 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.960 was freaking out and saying, I can't believe this has 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.680 happened to me. My life is destroyed. I don't believe 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.359 in anything anymore. And I said, do you want to 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.119 go through this process or do you want to separate? 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.159