1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: My mom grew up with going to therapy is a weakness. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Now it's being more normalized now people understand, but it's 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: like it's the best thing that ever happened to me. 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: What exactly is trauma? 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: Trauma is a subjective definition in some way, because I 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: cannot tell you if your traumatized or not. This topic 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 2: of post traumatic growth is precisely for people that have 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: gone through difficult experiences like you, and they turn this 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: pain into a purpose. 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: Yes, Hey, what up, y'all? Welcome back to my podcast, 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: Cheeky's in Chill. Today's episode is going to be a 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: little heavy. That's because we're going to be talking about trauma, 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: but not in the typical way. Yes, we're going to 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: talk about what trauma is, but we're also going to 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: talk about some of the so called gifts of trauma. 16 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: And we have a really great guest with us today, 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: so let's. 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: Get into it. 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: This is Cheeky's and here with me today is clinical 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: psychologist Edith Shiro. She's based in Miami and she has 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: a private practice there where she specializes in trauma. She's 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: also the author of the book The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: Doctor Hiro, Thank you so much for being here. 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much for this invitation. I 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: love sharing time with you and spend them with your 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: thank you. 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: You're so sweet, You're so sweet. Thank you. I'm so excited. 28 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I have so many questions for you, but 29 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: I want to start off with your background. What interested 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: you in, you know, studying trauma. 31 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: I always have this very professional answer, but I also 32 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: have a very personal answer, and my answer is that 33 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: I come from a family of war survivors, ho local survivors. 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: My grandparents were in concentration camps. My other set of 35 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: grandparents are refugees from Syria. And I am myself, like 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: as you know, and you probably too, a immigrant in 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: a few different countries. So that experience of going through 38 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: traumatic events and then living it myself in some way, 39 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: I mean, I have a few traumatic experiences, but myself 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: having informed me not only for my personal of obviously 41 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 2: in my personal life, but my professional work. So I've 42 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: always had this curiosity, you know, in the community that 43 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 2: I was living in Venezuela, of like how all these 44 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: immigrants and people were adjusting to the country, and a 45 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: lot of them came from war torn countries, and you know, 46 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 2: difficult journeys to get to South America, And that was 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: always my question, how do people survive? How do people 48 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: do this? How come some people do so well like 49 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: my grandfather, for example, and some people do so bad 50 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: like my grandmother, you know, Like it was this conscioust 51 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: and I was super curious of the human condition. 52 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: So how old were you when you realize this? When 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: you realize I want to study trauma? 54 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: So so I've always been interested in psychology ever since 55 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: I was a little girl, and people in my school 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: always called me like the psychologists, and people would come 57 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: to me and to ask me questions, and I was 58 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: very curious about the human condition. Also when I had 59 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: to formalize my years of study, there was always a 60 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: research question, and my questions always came to how come 61 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: some people have more and more in touch with their 62 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: feelings and some are not? Why people having personality traits 63 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: that help them drive in life and some people stay stuck? 64 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: Like I've always had these questions. And also my doctoral 65 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: dissertation twenty five years ago was on post traumatic growth. 66 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: So really my book, I wrote this twenty five years 67 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: ago already, like all this research and all this stuff 68 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: was already Yeah, so it's been really my interest to 69 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: my life. 70 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that's what you were born to do this. 71 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: You were born to do this, and that's and I'm 72 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: asking how old you were because I've wanted to study 73 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: psychology since I can remember, since I was in high 74 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: school because I was actually molested by my dad, and 75 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: I started going to therapy at twelve, and I said, 76 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this really helped me. I'm a different 77 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: person after therapy. I want to help people. Of course, 78 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: life changed and I had to help my mom and 79 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to go to school. But I'm like, 80 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: darn it, Hey, maybe it's not. It's never too late, 81 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, maybe I could, you know, and still do 82 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: it because it's something I'm very passionate about. 83 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: No, thank you for sharing the tickets. Thank you for 84 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: sharing that. And I'm actually very impressed that you were 85 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: in therapy at twelve. That doesn't usually happen because parents 86 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: are not usually that aware that being in therapy is 87 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: so helpful, especially when you've had an experience like that. 88 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what it was the police department, 89 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: I believe, or the doctor that I went to see 90 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: because my mom she grew up with going to therapy 91 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: is a weakness sort of thing, right, you know, so 92 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: she didn't she didn't know any better. So to her, 93 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 1: it's like, what do you mean you need therapy? That's 94 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: for someone that's not mentally okay, And it's like now 95 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: it's being more normalized. Now you know, people understand. But 96 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: it's like, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. 97 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: It was going to therapy, which is why it sparked 98 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: that in me. So anyway, that's why I wanted to 99 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: ask you so thank you for sharing. Now I know 100 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: you were born to do this. 101 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but actually, but actually I'm curious why you say that, 102 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: because you know, this topic of phostraumatic growth is precisely 103 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 2: for people that have gone through such difficult experiences like you, 104 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: and they turned this pain into a purpose. Then they 105 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: turned you know, the one becomes the medicine. Yeah, the 106 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: breakdown becomes the breakthrough. So you're such a beautiful example 107 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 2: of phostromedic growth. 108 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. That's what I had to do. 109 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: You know, I was very shy to talk about it 110 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 1: for so long, and I said why, I mean, let's 111 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: just keep it under wraps. And my mom was the 112 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: one that helped me with that and said, you know what, 113 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: You're going to help other little girls. And from then 114 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: it just something just clicked in my mind and I said, yes, 115 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: I have to help people. This happened to me for 116 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: a reason because God knew I was going to be 117 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: able to get out of it to help other people. 118 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: And it's like you said, I turned it into a 119 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: purpose into something positive. So if you can explain to 120 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: me and to my listeners, what exactly is trauma? 121 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I get asked that question all the time, 122 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 2: and I love it because trauma has been changing in 123 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: its definition. Maybe fifty years ago, we will talk about trauma, 124 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: refer to the soldiers that would come from war, from 125 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: the Vietnam War, from the you know, and they'd say, oh, yes, 126 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: that somebody that is traumatized. That's when the definition of 127 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 2: post traumatic stress disorder became into like the diagnosis, the 128 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: clinical diagnosis of psychiatry and psychology. That's when it got 129 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: more accepted. Right in the nineteen seventies, I would say, 130 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: But then as we move along and we learn more 131 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: about the traumatization and the experiences that are difficult for people, 132 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: we've expanded at least in the way that I work, 133 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: we've expanded the concept of trauma, and in my book, 134 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: I offer that definition of trauma that is any overwhelming 135 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: experience for which we don't have the tools, and any 136 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: experience that shatters your belief system about yourself, about others, 137 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: and about the world right and then you have to 138 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: like rearrange who you are and who other people are 139 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: and how the world functions at that moment. You don't 140 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: have the tools, you don't have the resources to really comprehend. 141 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: And it can be like a big thing. It can 142 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: be a work, It can be earthquake. It can be 143 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: sexual abuse, it can be an accident, can be the 144 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: loss of a loved one, but also cheekies. It can 145 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: be small things. It can be the microaggressions that you 146 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: live when you walk down the street and you're being 147 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: rejected or discriminated against, or when you're being bullied in 148 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: school for many years, or when you get divorced and 149 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you lose not only your 150 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: partner but also your friends, or when you don't get 151 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: invited into your friend's house and then you know, all 152 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: your girlfriends you know stop talking to you. Like these 153 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: are things that for some people are very traumatizing, for 154 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: some people are not. And that's why trauma is a 155 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: subjective definition in some way, because I cannot tell you 156 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: if you're traumatized or not. I mean, you are the 157 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: one that can tell me. You know, what they did. 158 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: The pandemic was very traumatizing for me. Okay, maybe for 159 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 2: me it wasn't, but for you it was super traumatizing. 160 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: So I'm not the one to like define for you 161 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: it's traumatic or not. So that's why I want to 162 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: expand the definition. 163 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that because I think so 164 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: many people need to also be okay with My experience 165 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: is different from yours, and it's okay, it's not. That's 166 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: why I don't like people saying sometimes, oh, you're so dramatic. 167 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: Wait a second, it didn't. It affected me in a 168 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: different way like you said. For instance, the pandemic, some 169 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: people thrive, some people loved it. Some people were just traumatized, 170 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: like you said. So I love that you explain this 171 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: because I don't want people to feel ashamed. If anything, 172 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: we all deal with things differently, So I love that. 173 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: I want to also ask you, like, how do people 174 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: know when to seek help? 175 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? So I always think that being in reallyglationship is 176 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: the best meaning, like being able to express how you 177 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: feel and identify your emotions and being able to be 178 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: getting validated is always important. So you don't have to 179 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: wait until you're very traumatized for that. But one of 180 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 2: the signs that we can see is if you're feeling 181 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: triggered by things that happen in your life and you 182 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: have like disproportionate reactions, if you are having recurrent nightmares, 183 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: if you're having hyper arousals, if you're constantly paranoid at 184 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 2: what's going on, if you're having the typical fight, slight 185 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: or phrase response in your everyday life, and I can 186 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: tell you more about that. If you are repeating a 187 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: behavior over and over and over and you don't know 188 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: where where's that coming from. It's like I know I'm 189 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: doing this wrong, and I keep falling into it, and 190 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 2: I keep doing it and I can get out of it. 191 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 2: If you're having addictive behaviors, you know, addictions are invariably 192 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: a response to a very traumatic event earlier in life. 193 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: So all these things are signed of like traumatic ev 194 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: and then you have to seek help. 195 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: Okay, So you guys, you guys, hear that, okay, And 196 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: I don't want anyone that is listening to feel like 197 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: something is wrong with them, like they are broken. We 198 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: all go through things, you guys. I have gone through 199 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot of things, and I think is just seeking help. 200 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with asking for help, you guys. 201 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: So just want to put that out there. 202 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: In my book, I offer these five stages of how 203 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: to get there, and the first stage is a radical acceptance. 204 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what you did during the pandemic. You 205 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: went into that place of halls and say, Okay, let 206 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 2: me look at the situation in the face. Let me 207 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: be honest, like radically honest with myself. Let's put a 208 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 2: name and identify what's going on with me, what's going 209 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 2: on with my marriage, what's happening in my life this time, 210 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: and let's call it for what it is. And that's 211 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 2: when you really begin to do through this process of change, 212 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: and that's when you're able to get that gift on 213 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: the other side. 214 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: You know, Yes, oh my goodness, thank God, thank God 215 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: for you, for you and for you. What can you 216 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: tell us, like what prevents people now that we're talking 217 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: about healing, you know, and coming out on the other side, 218 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: like what prevents people from healing? 219 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great, great, great, great question. So block 220 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: number one is thinking that trauma is a life sentence 221 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: and thinking, Okay, oh yeah, I was sexually abused. That's 222 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: it I'm doing. I'm miserable, my life is going to 223 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: be the worst, that have no way out, not knowing 224 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: that there are other possibilities. Another kind of blocking is 225 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:46,479 Speaker 2: when the context and the people around are continuing to oppress, 226 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: you know, the person and not allowing that prefer that 227 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: person to come out. For example, women that are experiencing 228 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: domestic violence, if they live in a country which they're 229 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: not even able to voice that to be validated for that, 230 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 2: are they going to even begin to deal with trauma? 231 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's like they're in a 232 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: country like, Okay, they have to be oppressed, they have 233 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: to be abused, they are like not treated properly and 234 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: not treated with the respect and the honor that it 235 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 2: requires for another human being, you can even begin to 236 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 2: heal from trauma. And that goes for collective trauma too. Chikis. 237 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: For example, we go our countries, our Latin American countries 238 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: that have been in different kinds of oppression, dictatorship, or colonization. 239 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 2: How can we even begin to heal from those traumas 240 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: as a collective right if we don't acknowledge that, if 241 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: we don't realize it, if we don't put a name 242 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 2: to it, if we don't identify and say, okay, this 243 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: is what happened, this is exactly what's going on, and 244 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: have that radical honesty. So there are a lot of variables. Also, 245 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: of course there are personality traits, there are other systemic 246 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 2: situations contacting or that influenced. But yeah, these are some 247 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: of the things that really block the being able to 248 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: or heal. 249 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: Okay, and do you think, like, for instance, to take 250 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: away all those exterior things. You know, the first step 251 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: would be and I mean this is something I believe, 252 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: but the first step would be accepting, accepting, Okay, this happened. 253 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: What can I do? Correct? 254 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely? The first step is, you know, stop ruminating about it. 255 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: You know how a lot of people, I mean, I 256 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: used to do this. Also, It's like you stay in 257 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 2: that thought and it keeps repeating, I'm not good, I'm 258 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: not good. I mean, you know, this is horrible. The 259 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 2: worst is going to happen. That kind of rumination is 260 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: not helped people that tend to really look at the 261 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: very very negative, hopeless, and that's part of the traumatic experience, right. 262 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: So it's when you're able to put a stop for that, 263 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: even if it's a pause, even because you're suffering so much. 264 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: Usually this is when it happens that you're suffering so 265 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: much and you're so uncomfortable and you're so like fed up, 266 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: like you hear rock Bottom and you say, that's it, 267 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: that's it. I have to do something different because I 268 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: can't take it anymore. That's when people begin to change. 269 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: That's when it's like it really touches something that says, 270 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 2: I can't handle it anymore. I've been an addict, I've 271 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: been drinking, I'm about to destroy all life. Or I've 272 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: been treated badly my life. I need to change my 273 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: lit or I you know, my relationships are going horrible 274 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: from one to the worst to the worst. I need 275 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: to do something about it. So that's when the change 276 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: begins to happen. 277 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like saying, yeah, as the key, I'm 278 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: not doing this anymore. I want to change, accepting it 279 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: and seeking help you guys, and just really doing the work. 280 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: Which is the second stage, the second stage of you 281 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: know what I'm proposing is this seeking help, which I 282 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: think you did amazingly. I mean that's unusual. 283 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: Thank you. 284 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, to really say, it's called safety protection. It's like, okay, 285 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: I know what I have. Let me trust somebody. Usually 286 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: it's a family member, Usually is a therapist, Usually is 287 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: a guru, a group, an organization that you reach out 288 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: and you say please, you know, I'm here, and you're 289 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 2: being validated and you're being recognized. Like so, if you're 290 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: twelve years old and you've sexually abused, it takes an 291 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: adult that validates that experience and say, you know what, 292 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: I understand what happened. I'm sorry it's happened to you. 293 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: Let's get help. 294 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: But there's that recognition, that acknowledgment that something is going on. 295 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: Like when you're a Let's say you have an addiction. Yes, 296 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: you have an addiction to shopping, you know, to the phone, 297 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: you know, to pornography. Yes, okay, I have an addiction. 298 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: Let's talk about it. Yes, I recognize it. The other 299 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: person is recognizing for you. Let's do something about it. 300 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: Then start looking for what are the appropriate ways to help? 301 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: Yes? Absolutely, Oh my goodness, I'm loving this conversation. By 302 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: the way, it's right up my alley is there. Do 303 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: you have anything like type of exercises or ways that 304 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: people can cope with it until they find the help 305 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: and find a therapist, because I think that's the beautiful thing. 306 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: You guys. All people that listen to me know that 307 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: I'm a huge advocate for therapy and counseling and life 308 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: coaching and all that stuff. And it's important to find 309 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: someone that you connect with, you know, and like doctor 310 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: Cherrol said, someone that's going to recognize and validate your feelings. 311 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes that's all we need. It's like, Okay, 312 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: you're not crazy, it's okay, I know you're talking about 313 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: let me help, you give us tools. But for someone 314 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: that let's say, can't afford it or can't have it, 315 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: hasn't found or can't find someone, what exercises or what 316 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: can you tell them or tell us how to cope, 317 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: how to you know, start the process. 318 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so listen, the trauma what it does? It fragments 319 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: and isolates it. Really, that's like a major thing that 320 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: does why because we are in shame, we are humiliated, 321 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: we are embarrassed, like oh my god, this happened to me. 322 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: How am I even going to talk about it? I'm 323 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: embarrassed even with my own self, like looking at myself 324 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 2: in the mirror for what I'm doing or for I'm being. 325 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: So it's very difficult to break free from that. That's 326 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: why I'm saying, like healings for courageous people, like it 327 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: takes a lot of courage to do this. And yes 328 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: it's not always therapy. That could be the thing there, 329 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: and not everybody has access to that, unfortunately not yet. 330 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: Hopefully that will change. But you know, having a person 331 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 2: a space that can be a safe space, a holding space. 332 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 2: It's good enough. If you have a best friend that 333 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 2: is willing to listen, not to judge, not to tell 334 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: you what not to do, just to listen and to 335 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 2: hold you. If you have a yoga teacher that is 336 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: wise enough to really sit with you and identify these 337 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 2: things and listen to you and give you emotional support. 338 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 2: If you have a family member, if you have a 339 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: group of people in your family, if you have a 340 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: group of friends that you feel comfortable enough, if you 341 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 2: have a religious organization that's say or spiritual, it doesn't 342 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 2: really matter so much what the context is and who 343 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: the person is, but it has to be a place 344 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: that is safe. 345 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. Feeling safe is so huge. You guys, 346 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about the book, just 347 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: because I think it's a beautiful It's a beautiful gift 348 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: in itself. 349 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. I'm very, very very excited about 350 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: it because it's been cooking there inside of me for 351 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: all these years, and I finally, at some point, like 352 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: three years ago, I was like, I have it right 353 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 2: here in my throat and I need to get it out. 354 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank goodness, Yeah, thank goodness. 355 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very very happy, and people have been very 356 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: receptive and very grateful for that. The first part of 357 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: the book is more like defining what trauma is, what 358 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 2: post traumatic growth is, the intergenerational transmission of trauma, collective trauma. 359 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 2: I talk about it, be genetics. I talk about a 360 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: few different things to clarify, you know, and topics that 361 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: people ask me all the time. The second part of 362 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: the book is the five stages. That it's very interesting 363 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 2: because you can you can look at the book and see, like, Okay, 364 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: which stage am I in right now? And there are 365 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 2: a few exercises for each day each where you can 366 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 2: be at the end of a book there's like a 367 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 2: questionnaire like are you in post traumatic growth or not? 368 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: So it's like a dynamic book in that sense, like 369 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: you can open it at any page and say, Okay, 370 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: let me see where I'm at with this, or let 371 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: me look at you know, maybe this stage or the 372 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: next stage, or how he loves it flow. Yeah. 373 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: I was going to tell you because I'm kind of 374 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: that type of reader. I'm a skimmer and I like 375 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: books like that where I could just be like, Okay, 376 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: let me see where I open it, and that's what 377 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: my soul needs in the moment exactly. So I love that. 378 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: And can you share just a few, like what a 379 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: few gifts of trauma with us without giving up too much? 380 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: But no, but listen, I mean I think everybody that 381 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: goes through their w own trauma and does the work 382 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 2: of this process gets a gift, every single one. So 383 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: every patient, every group, every community that I work with 384 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 2: when they go through this experience. For example, I work 385 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 2: with ninety eleven people, work with Cambodian refugees. I work 386 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: with it and not remember in Miami surf site collapse 387 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 2: when ninety eight people died. Yeah, So even in like 388 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: little moments like that, for example, a lot of the 389 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 2: survivors created a sort of a community and became a family, 390 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: you know, and that was incredible to see. And it's 391 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: been a year and a half and people still are 392 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: connected in that way. So, yes, it's a tragedy. It's horrible. 393 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: I don't wish it or anybody, but what comes out 394 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: of it sometimes is like people have rearranged their lives. 395 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: I had a couple that went through infidelity. This was 396 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: during the pandemic, and they were desperate. You know. She 397 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 2: was freaking out and saying, I can't believe this has 398 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: happened to me. My life is destroyed. I don't believe 399 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 2: in anything anymore. And I said, do you want to 400 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 2: go through this process or do you want to separate? 401 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 2: Because you can you know, like a lot of couples, 402 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: you can just separate. And they said, you know what, 403 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 2: We're willing to do the work. They actually worked really 404 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: hard to get this marriage, and we went through very 405 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 2: dark places with the two of them, and we looked 406 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: at different things. There are four children were like also, 407 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: you know, incredibly aware of all the changes that were 408 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: happening in the in the marriage and at the end, 409 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: towards the end of this process, and of course this 410 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 2: is an ongoing situation. It's not like everything is perfect. 411 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 2: But they were like, Wow, I have a new marriage. 412 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: This is a new marriage because this person has changed. 413 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: I have changed. I know him better, he knows me better. 414 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 2: We have a different way of communicating, We understand what 415 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 2: our priorities are, you know. So these are gifts that 416 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: you get when you actually are willing to dive in 417 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 2: and do this work. For some people, it's a spiritual awakening. 418 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: And for some people it's like they find their life mission. 419 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: That's why you see, for example, the mentor that was 420 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 2: an alcoholic, but he went through so much a drug 421 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: and alcohol, so now he mentors everybody else or somebody 422 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 2: that had a really difficult childhood experience with parents. Then 423 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: they become like the amazing you know, summer camp counselor 424 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: that works with children and heals all the children. 425 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 1: You know that these thing's happen, h No, absolutely, So 426 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: basically it's something beautiful can come out of a traumatic 427 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: experience and situation. Guys. So that's how I take it, 428 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: and that's what I feel that I've tried my best 429 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: to do in my life. Yes, I've gone through a 430 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: lot of pain, but how am I going to turn 431 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: that pain into power? So if you are going through 432 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: something difficult, if you've lost a loved one or anything 433 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: that we've talked about, I definitely recommend this book. I 434 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: think it's it's beautiful. I'm so glad that you wrote 435 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: it and it's out and ready for people to read, because, 436 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: especially now, more than ever, we need the help. And 437 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: I say we because I don't know what's going to 438 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: happen tomorrow. You know what I mean. Everything could be 439 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: okay right now, but life is a roller coaster of emotions. 440 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: You have ups and you have downs, and you have 441 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: to write it and know how to deal with it. 442 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: Even if you're not going through something right now, I 443 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: think the book would definitely help you. And it sounds 444 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: a little cliche, Oh yeah, turn something into positive, But no, honestly, 445 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: it's all in your mind. It's like not all in 446 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: you around. But I'm saying like it's like for you 447 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: to make the choice. I want to put in the work. 448 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: Like the couple that you said you mentioned, they said, Okay, 449 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: we are deciding to stay together despite what everyone else says, 450 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: and we're willing to put in the work and look 451 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: now they have a new marriage, and that's that's beautiful, 452 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: it's wonderful. 453 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm happy that you're saying choice, because it does 454 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: take a choice, an attitude to confront these situations. I mean, 455 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: I have an extreme example. I don't know if you've 456 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 2: heard of Victor Franco. He was a psychiatrist from Vienna 457 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: who was prosecuted in the war during the Second War, 458 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 2: and he was in concentration camps and he after the war, 459 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: he survived and he wrote this amazing book, The Man 460 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 2: in Search for Meaning. I don't know if you know 461 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 2: this book, yes, yeah, yeah, And he created he developed 462 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: this theory of this whole movement, this whole approach called 463 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 2: loco therapy. And he says, when I was in the 464 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: worst of the worst, in the middle of the war, 465 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 2: in those camps, I was between life and death. I 466 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 2: was thinking how I was gonna get out of this war, 467 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: and I was going to give talks and I was 468 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: going to give conferences and teach people about meaning in life, 469 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: and that of attitude. That change of attitude is what 470 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: made a difference, because he said, you can get stripped 471 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 2: of everything in life except one thing, except the willingness 472 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 2: to choose how you're going to face the situation right. 473 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: So not only that you get to have a purpose 474 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 2: in life, but I think also one of the things 475 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: that I see, Chik is that it's so beautiful is 476 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: that you have a new appreciation for life. People that 477 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 2: have gone through difficult things and then they come out 478 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: of it, they begin to see life in a different way. 479 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: They appreciate the nature more, they appreciate their friends more, 480 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: they appreciate their family. So those are gifts that you 481 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: get out of this trauma. Another thing that happens is 482 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: that your relationships become more deep, more meaningful. You're not 483 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: so much into that superficial sometimes wahing, but you get 484 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 2: into like deep connections, deep connections with other people. Another 485 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: thing that happens is that you're more ingratitude, Like you're 486 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 2: very grateful for being alive, You're grateful for who you are. 487 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 2: Realize that you have more strength so for the next 488 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 2: situation that happens, So the next challenge that happens, it 489 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: might be difficult too, but you have right but you know, 490 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 2: I overcame this, I went through this, I can do 491 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 2: this again. 492 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: It makes you stronger. 493 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 2: It makes you stronger, it makes you more resilient. Of course, 494 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 2: it makes you say, I believe in myself because I 495 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: was able to overcome this already and I know I 496 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: grew from it. Another thing that happens is what I 497 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: call this spiritual awakening, and that is an amazing thing. 498 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: You know that. There's research cheek is going on that 499 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: when people have gone through trauma and they connect spiritually more. 500 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: And I don't mean religious, it's not like an organized religion, 501 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: but it's more like you feel like you're connected to 502 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 2: a bigger thing, to a higher being, too, interconnected with 503 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 2: the universe, a higher power, to a higher power. There's 504 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: even biologically, there's also an indication people have a thicker 505 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 2: cerebral cortex. They develop even physically, something changes in your brain. 506 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 2: And that thing is so amazing because it's imagined that 507 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: a physical indication of your spiritual awakening. How powerful is that? 508 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: Not only that, but also it actually is a protective 509 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:20,159 Speaker 2: factor against future trauma, against future challenges. So people that 510 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: have developed this are already like having all these tools, 511 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 2: these amazing tools that protect them for future challenges, for 512 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 2: future and adversity and It's like, Wow, it wasn't that worth. 513 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 2: It wasn't worth to go through this, ye know? 514 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. This is like confirmation for me that 515 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: maybe this is why I'm such a spiritual person because 516 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: I've gone through so much. And yes, like I always say, ah, yes, 517 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm a victim of child abuse. Yes I'm a victim 518 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: of abandonment, and this has happened to me, But I 519 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: don't feel sorry for myself. I'm not gonna victimize myself. 520 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: I want to come out better and I'm like, how 521 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: am I going to use this to help other people? 522 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: And for me, I feel like that's become a mission 523 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: in my life and it has connected. And I feel 524 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: like I'm one of God's favorite or the universe or 525 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: whatever you believe in. Like i feel like I'm one 526 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: of the favorites because I'm like, Okay, I made it out, 527 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm here, I am and then I see the world 528 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: in a different way and this is just like WHOA, 529 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm on the right track. I have at most almost. 530 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: Movieing and it is amangan. 531 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: Yes, I honestly feel like I'm gonna be okay. And 532 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: and I feel like you said, I feel ready, I'm 533 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: like not that I'm saying I want something to happen, 534 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: but if something were to happen, I feel like I 535 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: know how to deal with it. I'm like, okay, I'll 536 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: be okay, you know what I mean. It gives me 537 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: more hope. I don't know, it's just it's it's wonderful. 538 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: It's wonderful. I love it. 539 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: I love that you're sharing that chickis And can I 540 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: tell you something else. One of the things that I've 541 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: seen is that once you do this transformation in yourself, 542 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: you are able to pass that on to the next generation. 543 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 2: How amazing is that is that not only emotionally, not 544 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: only like in your lifetime, but something happens in your 545 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 2: body that registers all that all that changes, and even 546 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: in your DNA that it gets registered. So then next 547 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: generations are gonna carry on that transformation, are gonna carry 548 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 2: on that growth and that wisdom that you have because 549 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: in the same way that trauma gets transmitted from generation 550 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: to generation. Right when we have our ancestors go through 551 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 2: war and through killings and through violence, and we carry 552 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: that and then we have that cycle of trauma. You know, 553 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 2: if you were sexual abuse, your parents were and your 554 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 2: mother was sexual abuse, and your grandmother was sexual abuse 555 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 2: and your great grandmother, right, So it takes a lot 556 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: to break that cycle. But also when you do that 557 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 2: transformation and you have all those gifts, that also gets 558 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 2: passed on into the next generation. So that's incredible that 559 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: you, you know, think of it not just for yourself, but 560 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: but for the people to come. 561 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: You know, yes, absolutely, where I'm like, yes, i want, 562 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm here to break generational curses, and I want to 563 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: learn the lessons so that we don't pass it on 564 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: to my children and the children of my children, I see, 565 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So absolutely, yes, I wanted 566 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: to quickly share like a little story because you were 567 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: saying about like how once you go through trauma you 568 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: see life in a different way. Right, we were talking 569 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: about that right now. And I'm not going to say 570 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: her name, but I have I know someone who before 571 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: she went through a very traumatic experience, she was out 572 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: and drinking and having fun. She said, I'm young, I'm 573 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: going to live my life, you know, Satano, And she 574 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: got in a car with someone that was driving under 575 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: the influence of alcohol. They crashed and she became paralyzed, 576 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: and she of course it's it's it's a huge thing 577 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: to go through, you know what I mean, but through 578 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: her pain, and that's something I feel that someone she 579 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: did it so beautifully that yeah, she was very sad 580 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: for a while, and then she started reading books and 581 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: she took therapy and went to a psychologist and now 582 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,719 Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, I don't have my legs, but I 583 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: still have my eyesight and I can still speak. And 584 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: she goes and she speaks to different people, and she 585 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: changed that pain and that traumatic experience into something became 586 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: her testimony almost I see, you know, part of like 587 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: her testimony of going out and telling people, look, this 588 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: is how I used to live my life. And then 589 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: this happened. But now I'm even happier than I was before, 590 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: which is I was like, whoa, you know what I mean. 591 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: It taught me a lesson. 592 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 2: So, yes, the pain is inevitable, but the suffering is 593 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 2: a choice. You know. We go through pain, right, but 594 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: suffering we can choose if you want to suffer or not. 595 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 2: It's unfortunate, you know that we sometimes we have to 596 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: learn and we have to grow from so much pain. 597 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: You know. And one of my questions that I always have, 598 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: is it possible to do that transformation without that accident. 599 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 2: Is it possible to change our lives and to be 600 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: in more gratitude and more wisdom and more awakening states 601 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: and more consciousness without having to suffer so much? 602 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: And that's something that she also mentioned, And that's somethings 603 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: I feel life tells us, and it's telling us slow down, 604 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, change your life, and then we're kind of forced. 605 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: And she she says that she had missed. She says, 606 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: there were a lot of signs that were telling me 607 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,719 Speaker 1: to stop drinking. I knew what I was doing, and 608 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: I didn't listen. So I think it's it's definitely possible. 609 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: We just have to listen and be aware. You know. 610 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: I was going to ask because, oh, because, yes, your 611 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: book also talks about post traumatic growth. Correct. 612 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: Yes. I always ask people, do you know what post 613 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: traumatic stress is PTSD? Everybody's like, yeah, we know, everybody knows. 614 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: When I say, do you know what PTG is, which 615 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 2: is post traumatic growth, most people don't know. And that's 616 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 2: why this book for me, is so exciting, because it's 617 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: really bringing that concept into the world. And of course 618 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: I didn't invent it. There was this very very intelligent, 619 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 2: brilliant psychologist at the University of North Carolina that coined 620 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: the term like twenty years ago, and it's post traumatic growth, 621 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 2: which is really the positive changes that come after a difficult, 622 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,719 Speaker 2: challenging event and that brings on changes that bring on 623 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: transformation in your life that is very meaningful. 624 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: And how exactly is it achieved or is it more 625 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: of like a longer conversation. 626 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: Well, but that's why I was talking about these five 627 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: stages that I really talk about in my book, and 628 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: I say, you really want to achieve postraumatic growth, you 629 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 2: go through these five stages. And by the way, these 630 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 2: five stages, I didn't invent them. I'm more describing them 631 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: because this is what I've seen people go over and 632 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 2: over and over from the last twenty five years in 633 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 2: my professional my research. This is what happens. People go 634 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 2: into this radical acceptance stage, into this awareness, then we 635 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: can go into awakening, then we go into new narratives, 636 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: then we go into integration, and then we go into 637 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: wisdom and growth, and that's where you get to postramatic growth. 638 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 2: And these are not linear stages. You know, you can 639 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: go there's circle, or you can go back, you can 640 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: go forward, you can go up you can go down, 641 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 2: but this is usually what happens. You can open the 642 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: book and you say, oh, yes, I'm on stage three. 643 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: I mean new narratives. This is what's happening to me. 644 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm in stage four of integration. I'm already 645 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 2: went through this tone. For example, you chick is your 646 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 2: or in stage five? Great, you've been through that. 647 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 3: Ye. 648 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: Yes. 649 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: I don't know how you are in your in your divorce, 650 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 2: I don't know what stage you're in, but in your 651 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 2: sexual abuse, you're definitely in your stage five. 652 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: Awesome, stage five. So I came out of it, and 653 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: I am grateful. I'm grateful honestly. Yeah, it was a tough, 654 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: very tough moment for me, suspect those things I wanted 655 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: to change about myself as well. It wasn't just him. 656 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: Now I could see the things that I've done so 657 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: or that I did. But I do have one last question, 658 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: and quickly, I just so the people that are listening, 659 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: do you have any tips for finding the right trauma 660 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: therapist or psychologist? 661 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: You know, finding a trauma therapist is like shopping. You 662 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: have to try a few different ones before you connect 663 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: to somebody. And the most important thing is that you 664 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: feel safe. So any therapist, of course, you know, make 665 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 2: sure that the person is licensed, that the person has 666 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 2: so experience, not necessarily have to have the most experience. 667 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: When people have thirty years, you know, the experience are 668 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 2: not as good as some people that have. But it 669 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 2: depends who the person is and who you connect with. 670 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 2: But make sure that person has experience in working with 671 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 2: trauma and that person makes you feel safe. 672 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love that. I love that you say safe. 673 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: That's that's a very important word. You guys, so so 674 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much, doctor Chiro andio, you guys, see 675 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: what thank You're wonderful and you explain everything so beautifully. 676 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: And you guys, can you know, go out and get 677 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: her book, The Unexpected Gift of Trauma. Actually, where can 678 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: we find you on social media? Doctor Hiro? 679 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 2: Yes, so my book is The Unexpected Give of Trauma 680 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: That Pass two Postraumatic Growth. You can find in Amazon, 681 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: you can find in the Barnes and Noble, you can 682 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 2: find in all the platforms, in Kindle, in audiobook, and 683 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 2: of course you can find me at the Instagram, doctor 684 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 2: redit Chiro, Facebook, the same doctor dit Shiro on my 685 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 2: website www dot doctor Relihiro dot com or you can 686 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 2: ask cheekysh she knows where to find me. Yes, I 687 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 2: love that, you know. I would love to continue the 688 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 2: conversation and hear from all of you what you think 689 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 2: about this topic and where are you at with this Yes. 690 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: And you guys know before we go, I do have 691 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: a motivational quote for you, and the quote is if 692 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: you have been brutally broken but still have the courage 693 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: to be gentle to other living beings, then you're a 694 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: badass with a heart of an angel. 695 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 2: Get where I love that. 696 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: Okay, I think it goes very well. 697 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for this invitation. It was very 698 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 2: very special, and thank you for sharing your experiences too. 699 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,959 Speaker 1: Thank you, Klen and I hope you guys all found 700 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: this episode informative and learned from our guests. Add Chiro 701 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: doctor did Hiro? Should I say? And We'll be back 702 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: with another episode of Cheeky's and Chill on Monday. Do 703 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: you need advice on love, relationships? Health emails? I'm so 704 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: excited to share with you that my Cheeky's and Chill 705 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: podcast will have an extra episode drop each week. I'll 706 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: be answering all your questions. 707 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 3: Just leave me a voice message Betterson Hard Monday. All 708 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 3: you have to do is go to speak pipe dot com, 709 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 3: slash Cheeky's and Chill podcast and record your questions. 710 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear from you. This is a 711 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and the MICA podcast Network. Follow us 712 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: on Instagram at michaela Podcasts and follow me Cheeky's That's 713 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 1: c h i q u i s. For more podcasts 714 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 715 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite podcast, and check us out 716 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: on YouTube.