1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: Right now. It's a great pleasure to welcome back to 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: the Armstrong and Gutty show Craig got walls, craig the 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: Healthcare Guru, attorney, law benefit consultant. Benefit Revolution is his 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: company slash website. We'll let you know how to get 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: in touch with him a little later on if you 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: need help. But Craig, welcome. How are you, brother? I'm good. 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: How are you, Joe? I'm terrific. Thank you. So a 8 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: brief description and why we want John Today. First of all, 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: it's been a while since we've talked to you and 10 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, Jack and I are confident about certain topics, 11 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: but we're humble about certain topics and the complexity of 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: the world of insurance and benefits and healthcare and the 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: government and the policy. It's just it's dizzy Ng to 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: the layman. So we always like to talk to you 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: about what's going on. Yeah, I understand that. When when 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: I was on, when I was on last time, I 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: think I was on with Jack when you were out 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: and Jack was Jack was asking me what premium increases 19 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna look like in three both for private employers 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: and in the exchanges. And at the time, you know 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: we were looking at twenty to thirty five percent increases 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: across the board. Because, yeah, because, because one of the 23 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: band aid extension of Obamacare, subsidies above and beyond what 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: was originally passed in Obamacare, was set to expire. And 25 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, Jack asked me what I thought the odds 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: were that that was going to happen and I said 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: it would not happen. Republicans would cave or Democrats would 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: figure out a way to get it passed without a 29 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: Republican vote through some sort of budget reconciliation, and that's 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: exactly what they did with the inflation reduction acts. So 31 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: an extra twenty five billion a year is going to 32 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: be handed out to Um, roughly ten eleven million people 33 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: in the obamacare exchanges, and it's going to take their 34 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: their annual increases, you know, from something that would have 35 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: been probably down to an average of ten percent across 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: the board, which, in healthcare terms, honestly, Joe, is kind 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: of because we've been seeing seven to ten percent increases 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: in healthcare for twenty five years. So the fact that 39 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: the fact that healthcare is only going to go up 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: seven to ten percent again this year is almost a 41 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: picnic in light of what's going on with true inflation. Yeah, 42 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, I hate to ask you for numbers you 43 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: don't have, but I find myself wondering, in the context 44 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: of all of the inflation we've had in which, you know, 45 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: healthcare allegedly a sixth of the economy, we've heard, or 46 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: a seventh, whatever it is, it seems like buying milk 47 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: and eggs is now a seventh of your paycheck. Um, 48 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: in the midst of all that other UH inflation, I 49 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: find myself wondering the the average American, the typical American family, 50 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: what percentage of their take home pay do they spend 51 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: on healthcare these days? Do you have any idea? Well, 52 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: that number varies greatly depending upon whether you're self employed 53 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: or whether you work at a public employer, for example, 54 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: that pays almost everything on your behalf, but of course 55 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: then reduces your take home pay because they're using they're 56 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: using their resources to buy your bloated health insurance. Um. 57 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: So it's that numbers kind of misleading because it's all 58 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: over the map depending upon where you work. But I 59 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: can tell you, you know, one of the reasons I'm 60 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: totally diverging here from what we had spoken about talking about, 61 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: but there's there's two main reasons we have this bloated, 62 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: ridiculous health care system that we have in America, and 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever talked about this on 64 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: your show, but the primary reason. So taking a step 65 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: back when you buy insurance, and I'M A guy who 66 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 1: sells insurance, but I always tell people you're best off 67 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: buying as little insurance as you can, save what you 68 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: can cover, what you can have as high of the 69 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: deductible as you can afford, and then buy insurance, because 70 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: once you buy insurance, that money walks away. Right. So 71 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: we ensure we have high deductibles on our homes, our cars, etcetera. 72 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: But for healthcare we have we live in this peculiar 73 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: world where we ensure everything down to a paper cut. 74 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: You know, we all want to go into the hospital 75 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: or the doctor for a dollar co pay and we 76 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 1: don't think about what things cost. And that the real 77 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: question is why? Why did that start? Interestingly enough, that 78 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: started in World War Two, and you might say, what 79 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: the Hell? Well, in World War Two we decided, hey, 80 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: there's a war on, so we put wage freezes in 81 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: place as a country, and so what they did was 82 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: they said, well, but we still need to recruit employees 83 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: and retain them somehow, so benefits don't count as part 84 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: of the wage freezes. So at that time during World 85 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: War Two, employers who needed to recruit talent started putting 86 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: in these ridiculously bloated prepaid health plans where it paid 87 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: for everything. It paid for your annual physics, paid for 88 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: every had no deductible, it had no skin in the 89 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: game for the purchaser. On top of that, we amended 90 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: the tax code to say, Oh and by the way, 91 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: every bit of money you give to an employee in 92 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: the way of health insurance is non taxable. So we 93 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: have two huge incentives to provide these bloated medical plans 94 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: to people, and that's part of the reason this thing 95 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: is spiraled out of control the way it has the 96 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: last seventy five years. Wow, that is so interesting. Craig Gottwall's, 97 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: the Healthcare Guru, is on the line. Uh, that's that's 98 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: great knowledge. And the other thing that I'll always be 99 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: grateful to you for pointing out to us was how 100 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: utterly is, how utterly dishonest government healthcare programs like Medicare 101 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: are in terms of the legislation and what they claim 102 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: they will compensate doctors for their services, that sort of thing, 103 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: how artificial and dishonest the whole thing is. Yeah, you know, 104 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: that's a fantastic point, Joe, because there is a ray 105 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: of sunshine coming through the cloud cover. There are shoots 106 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: of green hope coming up in the desert soil here. Um, 107 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: we're seeing a renaissance in the private market and healthcare 108 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: that I wrote about years ago and it's really starting 109 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: to take off. Before we dive into the next topic, 110 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: we're always talking about the percentage of healthcare that's already 111 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: socialized in America. Has that changed in either direction? No, 112 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: that's great, that's actually that. That's a foundational fact I 113 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: was going to need to set up here to make 114 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: the next to make the next point, and it's it 115 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: hasn't changed other than it's just slowly creeping upwards. So 116 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: so right now it's safe to say that two thirds 117 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: of all health care in America are funded by taxpayers. 118 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: And then, you know, people always ask they say, wait 119 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: a minute, how's that possible? Because I see that, you know, 120 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: forty or fifty percent of people get their insurance through 121 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: work and it's because when you once you add together. Now, 122 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: remember anybody who works for a state or federal or 123 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: local government, almost all of their health care is funded 124 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: by taxicare. And then when you add that to Medicare, Medicaid, uh, 125 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: The v a care, and then try care, which is 126 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: for active duty military, when you add all that together, 127 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: two thirds of all health care in America are funded 128 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: by taxpayers. So you you look at that and you say, well, 129 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: now we've got one third of of health care that's 130 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: actually being funded by the private marketplace. And so how 131 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: does that work? Well, here's here's what's going on. When 132 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: you when you take your employer health care plan and 133 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: you go to the hospital, that plan is paying on 134 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: average across the country, two hundred and of what Medicare 135 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: would pay for the same exact service, more than double. 136 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: That's nice. This is how Medicare keeps costs down, because 137 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: Medicare is the number one purchaser of healthcare across the country. 138 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: So hospitals don't dare declinate because it's their number one client. 139 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: And there's also there's a there's a patriotic element to 140 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: taking Medicare because that's our health care for the oldsters. 141 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: They've paid into it all their lives. It would it 142 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: would be a it's a bad PR move for a 143 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: hospital to say we're not going to take Medicare. So 144 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 1: the way, the way Medicare gets funded is through a private, 145 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: hidden tax that none of us know about, and that's 146 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: the fact that it's the government pays the hospitals way 147 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: too little and then turns around in charges that one 148 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: third of private employers two D of what those costs 149 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: are in order to make themselves whole and make a 150 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: nice tidy profit. Oh Wow, that really is a tax. 151 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: It really is attacked. It's a hidden tax and it's 152 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: been creeping up. This is not one party or the other. 153 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: This has been going on since started with Clinton and 154 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: and it's been going on through the second Bush and 155 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: Obama and trump. I mean this just continues to march 156 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: on and the disparity gets worse every year. I look 157 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: at the studies and that just keeps creeping upward. So 158 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: it's it's just a beautiful thing that's starting to happen. Joe, 159 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: I've written about this. It's pretty Wonky, but I'M gonna 160 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna simplify the heck out of it. Large employers 161 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: and when I say large, I mean you've got to 162 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: have at least two hundred, fifty, three hundred employees to 163 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: make this work. They're just opting out of the entire 164 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: system right. So like when you guys talk about it's 165 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: not ours versus D it's really them versus us. It's 166 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: the elite class, the politicians versus the people. Well, there's 167 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: an element of that with healthcare, because it's not really 168 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: insurers versus hospitals or Medicare. It's it's really what I 169 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: like to call a government industrial healthcare complex. You've got 170 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: Medicare into hoots with the large insurers that are overcharging, 171 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: and then the hospit bittles are benefiting from these large reimbursements. 172 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: So large employers that have the resources, and most employers 173 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: with more than three employees do, are just starting to 174 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: opt out all together and say enough, we're gonna pay 175 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: for our employees healthcare and we're not going to do 176 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: it with any insurance company at all. And then you say, well, 177 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute. How do they do that? 178 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: They say we're not paying the two of what Medicare pays. 179 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna pay hospitals of what Medicare pays. So they pick, 180 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: they pick a percentage that's more than Medicare and they 181 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: say this is what will pay you for our employees service. 182 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: Will you take it or not? And so far of 183 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: hospitals are capitulating and saying yeah, I mean it's so 184 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: do I understand correctly that this is? These companies are 185 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: self insured. They just go ahead and write the check 186 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: for the medical coverage and they probably have like an 187 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: insurance company that just administers the claims for him, does 188 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the paperwork. Yeah, we hire Um when we do this, 189 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: we hire an administrative agency, a t P, a, a 190 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: third party paint claims pair and then we hire what 191 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: we call them a repricing company that actually prices the 192 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: medical claim to be what a hundred and forty percent 193 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: of Medicare is, which we know because that's all published. Right. 194 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: So so anything that happens, like when you go to 195 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: the doctor, when you plan your surgery, whatever, we the 196 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: pre certification of the claim set comes in and says, Hey, 197 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: we don't have one of these giant insurance companies, we're 198 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: going to pay you forty percent more than Medicare pays. 199 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: You take it or leave it. And and it's really 200 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: hard for the hospital to say, gene, no, we're not 201 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: going to take forty more than our largest client pays us, 202 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: because that would look really bad. Now you say what 203 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: happens in the three percent? Well, roughly three percent of 204 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: them the hospital pushes back and says no, we want two. 205 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: And that's when when we engage with the lawyers and 206 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: we say, well, wait a minute, you're going to charge 207 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: my client when your number one client pays less than 208 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,359 Speaker 1: we're offering. So of the three percent where this gets disputed, 209 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: only point three percent go to trial and so far 210 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: in the point three percent that have gone to trial, 211 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: every one of them is settled, except for one. The 212 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: one that settled sided with the employer because the judge 213 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: ultimately ruled you can't be charging well, first of all, 214 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: it was an emergency situation. So the in an emergency 215 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: situation you have a weird deal where somebody gets care 216 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: and they don't know what the price is going to be. 217 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 1: So that's not a contract legally speaking. And then the 218 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: hospital tried to charge two and of course the the 219 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: employer said no, we'll pay and ultimately they sided with 220 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: the employer. So what is doing effectively, Joe, is it's 221 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: reducing a company's healthcare costs by thirty percent year one. 222 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: So like whatever you're paying today, ten million dollars for 223 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: your health plan, you're gonna pay seven million hours next 224 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: year with this system. It's unbelievable. Okay, so we have 225 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: a fair number of business owners listening, of course, but 226 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: we have many, many hard working folks who are employees. 227 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: Is this going to filter down? Is this going to 228 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: be of benefit to the Working People? Absolutely, because they're 229 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: going to start to see the amount coming out of 230 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: their paycheck go down by thirty percent per month when 231 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: they go to and and if you're not dealing with 232 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: an insurance company anymore, so you just go to whichever 233 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: hospital or doctor you want and you let your employer 234 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: and your employer's repricing company fight with the hospital over 235 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: the price of the claim you we completely exempt the 236 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: employee from the from the distribute. That the UM disruption here. 237 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: Excuse me. And how widespread is this? Well, it's it's 238 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: years ago, when I started writing about it, only about 239 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: two percent of companies were dabbling in it. Now you've 240 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: got as many as eighteen percent of companies that are 241 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: starting to move in this direction, with at least one 242 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: form of plan that does this. It's called reference based 243 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: pricing because you're picking a reference point. In my in 244 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: my example, I used of Medicare as the reference point. Yeah, yeah, 245 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: so if if folks like business owners, want to know 246 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: more about this, how can they get hold of you? Um, 247 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: two ways. I mean, if you're on twitter, the easiest 248 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: ways to hit me at at an e B e 249 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: n e revolution Dot Com. If you're not on twitter 250 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: and you want to go to traditional website, uh route, 251 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: you can go to my blog, which is benefit dash 252 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: revolution dot com. You can get me a benefit benefit 253 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: dash revolution dot com and we'll have links at Armstrong 254 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: and Getty Dot Com for a folks driving or or whatever. Craig, 255 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: that's so interesting and you make it understandable. Um Scala 256 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: Wanta to attend. How significant development do you think this 257 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: is going to be over time, this new strategy? Well, 258 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: this is them. I would say this is a seven, 259 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: because it won't work for if it just won't work 260 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: well for companies with less than like two people, because 261 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: they don't have the resources to self ensure. So it's 262 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: a huge development for I mean if you're if you 263 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: have more than three employees, this is a nine out 264 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: of ten. This is a this is a huge thing. 265 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: That'll keep you from going socialized in the future. If 266 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: you're in that smaller bracket, I think you're still gonna 267 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: get you're gonna end up with some form of Obamacare 268 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: or Medicaid and in ten seconds. Can smaller companies at 269 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: some point in the future band together? Yes, and there are. 270 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: There are things smaller companies can do that are look 271 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: like this but aren't quite as effective, and I'm doing 272 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: that with some of those as well. Okay, fair enough, Craig, 273 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: got walls, Craig, the Healthcare Guru. Craig, terrific stuff. I 274 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: always great to talk to you. Hey, let's go fishing soon, 275 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: all right? Yeah, Joe, let's get after it. Yeah, those 276 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: are those bass. They need to be caught. They want it. 277 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: All right. Thanks, Craig.